From cornish at tfon.com Mon Dec 1 07:50:18 2008 From: cornish at tfon.com (John Cornish) Date: Mon Dec 1 07:51:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Fiction: The Old Man and the Mountain Message-ID: <44B874B10201458888B42770F342FE08@D1Y2LBC1> Hi Everyone, I hope this finds you well and rested after a wonderful Holiday weekend (for those of you in the States). It's been a busy time around our house of late, lots going on, and the dust has had to find another place to lie. Below you'll find my newest offering. This is the first "story" I've written with a mineral theme and truly, I hope you enjoy. All the very best, John A Fiction: The Old Man And The Mountain John Cornish cornish@tfon.com It was a somber morning. The sky was heavy and black and the rain dumped in cold cascading buckets. Unheeding, I pulled my coat tighter and trudged up the trail, my pack heavy and dragging me down. The slap of the rain and the squelching, sucking cry of my feet pulling free from the mud accompanied my harsh breathing as I struggled through the dark woods at the flank of the Mountain. Higher ever higher, endlessly I climbed. Scrambling upwards, entangled in branches and ragged clots of brush, my feet twisted and ensnarled until gracelessly, I'd be forced to exert my every effort, ripping myself free, to continue climbing higher, always higher. In the deep woods, the air was close and cloying and oppressively damp. Rich, thick, luxuriant carpets of moss were everywhere, they soaked and dripped amidst the dark stands of brooding, massive trees. Old as time, silent as the tomb, until a bitter wind rattles their lofty crowns, then they'll begin stirring, creaking and groaning, whispering and calling, their unknown language eerily echoing across the flanks of the Mountain, while still I climbed. Dawn comes and goes and the hours fall away. Still, ever my guts crushed and my spirit ached with desire. Tirelessly, flailing, my heart bursting, my legs burning, I climbed. Until finally, I began to notice the trees thinning, the light becoming. With a final desperate lunge, I burst/fell through the last thick barriers of vegetation cloaking the Mountain's lower slopes. Free, I'd finally escaped... To find, like Heaven spread before me, the barren rocky exposures of a vast, gigantic granitic field. It stretched all about, seemingly right to the very crest of the Mountain itself, to its most lofty crags and peaks. Great jumbled fields of broken stone, and with them before me, finally, I knew I'd made it. I'd climbed the Mountain and was here. Finally. He'd whispered, that old man, that broken ancient old storyteller/liar, he'd told us... "Climb the Mountain, boy's, make for its highest reaches and there you'll find the treasure you're seeking, there you'll find crystals and glories and more. There you'll earn your keep and learn your worth. Heh, you'll start out children, but gain its heights and wrest free its treasures, and you'll leave that Mountain so much more. Aye, boys, you'll leave that Mountain, men!" ************************************ That old bugger, sitting smug and happy, his accomplishments all about him, memories with form, every perfect flawless crystal group glittering in the wan light of his cluttered and hermitic life. Cackling, mad as a hatter and make no doubt, sharp as a tack and alive, while his body decays about him, his eye's focused and clear like a hawk, fierce with pride, as he recalls the adventures he's had wresting his treasures from the cold still Earth. And Tommy and I, wide eyed and all amazed, we hung on his every word. Our hearts thumping in our chests feverishly as he'd retell old lie after old lie, obviously embellishing every word, making fantasy until, with a sweep of his now taloned claw-like hand, he directs us to pull open a drawer in his cabinet and there before us, cushioned and carefully kept, lay the glittering incredible treasure of which he'd just told! Breathless, we looked forward to these visits at the Home. Our Grandpa was there too, and he was really old too. And, he didn't like kids very much. Grandpa always stunk funny and he was always cranky. Not being much fun, while Mom and Dad visited, Tommy and I would wander the bright white halls of the Home, peering into the partially curtained rooms always drenched in a pallid twilight-like gloom offset by the flickering flashes of televisions. It was while we roamed, that we'd first met Mr. Parbles. He caught us dead to rights one day as we snuck a peek into his room, he stuck his head right out at us and said, "Ha!" Just that, "Ha!" And his big bristly face erupted into a horse-like grin of brown stained teeth and merriment. Both Tommy and I liked him immediately. Every visit we made to the Home after that, after our prerequisite mumbled hello's to our own always seemingly bitter Grandpa, Tommy and I were off and down the hall to visit Mr. Parbles, Mr. P as we came to call him. Over the several months we'd been visiting, Mr. P had begun spinning stories of his younger days, stories filled with outdoor adventures and hidden glories. Mr. P was a mineral collector. Mr. P dug crystals. Mr. P found treasure! And rich as our young imaginations could conjure, Mr. P filled our afternoons with the experiences and memories he'd had over a lifetime. These were not stories of War or of careers, for Mr. P was passionate for neither of these things, these were stories of a man and his desire to explore the World about him and, of his eventual discovery of those things crystalline and mineral. "That's when things changed", Mr. P would always say, "That's when I found focus for my wandering soul, that's when I found my purpose and my love." Then if we were lucky, that's when he'd say, "Softly boys, gently, open that drawer over there. Softly, gently, pull it open and hand me the third box in the second row, left of center." This we'd do, for Mr. P was broken and it was difficult for him to get about. An accident he'd said during one of our earlier visits, a split second where he'd been in the wrong place at the wrong time. He'd described a beautiful day and a wonderful, monstrous crystal lined pocket that he'd just found at a place he'd mysteriously call the Mountain. There, one day a long time ago, while recovering his breath after a lengthy assault on the rock with hammer and bar, a falling pebble from above, a small thing smaller then a hens egg, had hit him a glancing blow on the shoulder, knocking him from the hard rock ledge from which he'd clung, so that momentarily, he'd seemed to fly, before all too soon, cascading down and down in a twisting tangle of broken limbs, before coming to an abrupt and crushing end. Mr. P never walked again. Oh, luck was with him that day... He'd had a collecting friend there, working lower on the Mountain, who had witnessed Mr. P's rag-doll descent. He'd saved Mr. P and had brought him down, and the experience haunted Mr. P's friend, the sight of his friend falling, it haunted him. After awakening, Mr. P had tried to share the location of his incredible find with his friend, who, broken in spirit, never did make the return trip and over time, drifted away, finally loosing contact with Mr. P altogether. Sometimes, when he aches, his bones and joints raw with pain, during these days, Mr. P always seems anxious and restless, it seems as if it's more then his body that's crying out in pain, it was like something had been left unsaid, or worse, something had been left undone... ************************************ But that was a long time ago, Mr. P is dead now and so was Tommy, and Mom and Dad too. Mr. P had a heart attack one fresh bright Summer morning in July, and then seemingly moments later, Tommy died in August, lost on an oil slickened highway. Mom and Dad were lost in another accident two months later. It's just me now and me, my World is crashing down. I honestly wasn't prepared for anything like this. I didn't think, I couldn't conceive, that anything could hurt this much. That I could feel so empty. I could hardly breathe, let alone maintain. I lost my job and then, again, seemingly mere moments later, I lost my girlfriend. And spinning out of control, I wondered what I'd loose next. And somehow, intuition I guess, I knew what next I'd loose, I knew I'd loose me. That's when I cried for the first time since all of their deaths. Afterwards, still raw with emotion, I began to think back, trying to focus on the better times, on those times when we'd all been a family. Because Barry, that was Mr. Parbles first name, Barry became our second Grandfather. No one knew that's what would happen, it just did. Curious as to where their kids were always escaping to during their visit's to the Home, one day, Mom and Dad sought us out and there found us sequestered with Mr. P, listening to him telling his mineral collecting stories and sharing his incredible crystal collection. Mom and Dad had already suspected something as previously after visits, on our drive home, Tommy and I would always be so excited, all a' twitter talking of crystal this and mineral that until eventually, our parents decided to search out our new found friend. And like I mentioned, that's where they found us. After introductions were made, and they too became entranced by Mr. P's World, we all would slip away from Grandpa, and down the hall, we'd all enjoy a wonderful pleasant visit. We feared this would stop, Tommy and I, on the day our Grandpa passed away. But, realizing the importance of an older person in their young children's lives, Mom and Dad unofficially, officially adopted Mr. P as our family's new Grandpa. These were magic years for Tommy and I. We visited often, especially once we'd both gotten our drivers licenses. When this happened, and after Mr. P had talked at length with Mom and Dad, Mr. P shifted his story telling to not include just the fantastic, but rather the real and the accessible too. I think I'll always remember that special day when Mr. P told Tommy to open the closet (we'd never been told to do this before) and pull down the box from the top shelf. Tommy did so, though not without a grunt as he pulled it free, dropping the box down heavily into his arms. I'd pulled the table beside Mr. P's bedside as I'd been instructed, so Tommy could set the box down. With shaky hands, Mr. P opened the lid and reached inside to grasp and pull free a series of leather bound books. He pulled two free from the stack and handed one to each of us. As we opened the books, we found them to be journals... Mineral Collecting Journals! Mr. P had recorded all of his adventures into a diary-like format contained within the pages of these books. We flipped through kind of aimlessly until it dawned on each of us, these weren't just books, these were treasure maps to treasure! Watching as our delight dawned, the magic of the moment was mirrored in the eyes of Mr. P too. And that's when it happened, that was the first day we, all of us, Tommy, Mr. P and I, that was the first day we ever really talked about mineral and crystal collecting. We weren't just retelling old stories any more, now, and it lit all of us up like nuclear powered Christmas trees, now we were making plans to go off, to begin our own adventures! We were all so excited. And then came that sad July and the horrific months that followed. And two seconds later, I was lost. Everyone gone. ************************************ My World falling apart, like a scared child, frightened, I reeled everything in closer, always closer, madly trying to block out all reality so I'd not be hurt again. In this semi-functional state of existence, hopelessly trying to find something to hold onto while spinning further and further out of control, I rediscovered Mr. P's journals. This was a true God-send. I hadn't been eating or sleeping and I was both physically and mentally falling apart, and then I found the journals and a reason, or maybe a second chance. First I read one page and then two. Then one journal would follow another. And the hours passed. At some point, I began taking notes, compiling information, a little scrap here, a little clue there, over time, I'd come up with an idea and one of these, I'd not had in weeks... I would go to the Mountain. I'd go and rediscover Mr. P's lost crystal pocket, his last pocket and maybe, if I could find that, reaching for stars, maybe I could find myself too. And the hours passed. Using clues captured from his many entries collecting on the Mountain, I slowly began to construct a path at whose conclusion, I hoped to find a trail, vague and treacherous though it may be, leading up towards the place where one man had nearly lost his life and where now, I hoped to find my own. Washington is a wild State. The weather hits hard and fast here, wet and cold, our mountains, they're dangerous. Still, locked within these buttressed peaks, treasure lies awaiting discovery. Mr. P had sought it and now, I would seek it too. From my observations, I'd figured that Mr. P had been working high in a remote area of the northern Cascade Mountains, near an area called Washington Pass. This area has some of the most beautiful and exotic minerals that have ever been recovered and yet, it is such a wild and inhospitable place, that most collectors never venture far from the safety of their vehicles, collecting float material in the highway's road cuts. While good for the masses, Mr. P had left these haunts far behind and looking for something more, he pioneered a route to the lofty heights far above. And now, before me, next to an old blazed tree whose northern side had been stripped of branches, there was the trail Mr. P had mentioned in his journal's. It lay a faint depression slicing the greenery, a small nearly invisible space where he'd squeeze his body through, one moment there and the next gone. And here it was... Time to pack. That accomplished, I slipped my pack onto my shoulders as a cold steady rain began to fall. No one was around, maybe not for miles, just the way Mr. P would have liked it. I shivered a bit and then closed and locked the truck. I hit the trail.... ************************************ According to Mr. P's journals, now that I'd left the forest behind, I hadn't just left one environment or elevation, I'd also climbed into a higher zone where another, older type of granite had formed. This was where Mr. P had found many of his most precious treasures. Here, spread before me, the entire boulder field held untold potential. My mind whirled in a giddy rush as I thought of all the fine specimens Mr. P had shown my brother and I, many of them had been collected here, from this very place. Still, in the end, this wasn't where Mr. P had been on that last fateful trip, this was only the beginning of Mr. P's collecting kingdom. Back at home prior to leaving, I'd sketched a rough map, coordinating points recorded by Mr. P. With this as my guide, after a quick break, I reshouldered my pack and again began ascending the Mountain. This time, I'd be climbing towards the south. I was searching for a small, steep walled cirque somewhere up above me. It'd be hidden from this lower vantage and it'd only be by climbing that I'd find it. As I climbed amongst those monstrous house-sized boulders, I found myself first going over one massive giant and then next, I'd have to drop, to slither and crawl my way down, sometimes deep in the shadows, to find my way past another. After a time, I came across the first of what would eventually become a growing number of emptied pockets, once rich, their treasure chambers had been emptied long ago by Mr. P. I found it comforting in those cold places to find evidence that I'd indeed deciphered Mr. P's notes correctly and was on the right path, retracing his steps from all those many years before, inspiring me to push on, working harder to find Mr. P's lost pocket. Eventually, the rocks began to noticeably thin in both size and number as the way before me grew ever more steep. Cracks and fissures in the rock gave adequate hand and foot holds and while a test of my strength and will, I found myself becoming more and more exhilarated with each passing minute as I worked my way closer towards a dream. ************************************ To learn more about the Washington Pass area of Washington State, please consider the following... Anonymous. 1985. Washington Pass, Washington : Mineral News. Vol. 1, July, pp. 6 Becker, R. 1985. Mineral collecting at Washington Pass, Okanogan Co., WA, Part 1 : Mineral News. Vol. 1, nos 3- 6 ----------------. 1991. Minerals of the Golden Horn Batholith, Okanogan County, Washington : Rocks & Minerals. Vol.66, pp. 450- 459 Boggs, Russell. 1980. Okanoganite: a new rare-earth borofluorosilicate from the Golden Horn batholith, Okanogan County, Washington : American Mineralogist. Vol.65, pp. 1138-1142 -----------------. 1988. Calciohilairite: the calcium analogue of hilairite from the Golden Horn batholith, northern Cascades, Washington : American Mineralogist. Vol.73, pp. 1191-1194 Dunn, Pete J., Rouse, Roland C., Cannon, Bart and Nelen, Joseph A. 1977. Zektzerite: a new lithium sodium zirconium silicate related to tuhualite and the osumilite group : American Mineralogist. Vol. 62, pp. 416-420. Howard, D. G. 1990. The Golden Horn batholith : Micro Probe. 7 (2) Mindat. Washington Pass, Golden Horn Batholith, Okanogan County, Washington USA. http://www.mindat.org/loc-4220.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Dec 1 15:21:12 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Dec 1 15:20:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint Message-ID: <49347168.6050500@arczip.com> Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes with segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of white paint should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could use your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas. Chuck Baran From mhibberd at netzero.net Mon Dec 1 15:53:22 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Mon Dec 1 15:54:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint Message-ID: <20081201.185322.7763.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com> HI! I did something similar I used cardboard egg (DOZEN) cotainers ,on each mineral I coated a small area with clear finger nail polish then when that dried I used a perm marker after that dried I coated it with clear nail polish. Merry Christmas Mary & Mary _____________________________________________________________________ Get Freebies & Coupons -- Free of Hassle at FreeInternet.com! Visit http://offers.netzero.net/TGL1221/?u=http://www.freeinternet.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Mon Dec 1 15:59:16 2008 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 1 15:56:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint Message-ID: Try liquid paper. It's easy to remove if you want and it takes ink well. Hope this helps. Kevin Paintricks Airbrushing **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Dec 1 16:01:13 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 1 16:00:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint Message-ID: <8CB222839B75924-1390-1134@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> I have painted numbers thus on rock samples, and I've used ordinary white enamel model paint as the base.? As per what (Mary & Mary) just added, after writing the numbers or names on in permanent ink and letting it dry well, I would also coat it with a layer of clear nail polish. Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: Charles Baran To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:21 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes with segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of white paint? should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could use your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas.? ? Chuck Baran? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Dec 1 16:13:18 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Dec 1 16:03:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint References: <49347168.6050500@arczip.com> Message-ID: <006d01c95412$c711b220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hi Chuck, I have tried acrylic artists white paint, latex paint and white oil based enamel paint for marking specimens. My preference is the enamel due to its body, it can really fill in the indentations. Usually I apply two to three coats, when dry use a permanent black marker or India ink with a crow quill pen point. I have experimented with a bit of grinding on large specimens to make a flat spot for the paint. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint > Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes with > segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of white paint > should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit > index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could use > your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas. > > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rhill at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Dec 1 16:06:44 2008 From: rhill at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Hill) Date: Mon Dec 1 16:06:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <8CB222839B75924-1390-1134@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB222839B75924-1390-1134@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <49347C14.3050503@lpl.arizona.edu> I have now done thousands of fossils and found that the fast drying Krylon white enamel is best. I usually spray a little in some container and paint it on with a brush when it thickens a bit. Then you can use any permanent marker or ink I use india ink...it's time proven since it was used in the 19th century and the markings have survived. I did try white-out and it all crumbled off after a time and nail polish took a long time to fully harden. -Rik pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > I have painted numbers thus on rock samples, and I've used ordinary white enamel model paint as the base.? As per what (Mary & Mary) just added, after writing the numbers or names on in permanent ink and letting it dry well, I would also coat it with a layer of clear nail polish. > > Pete Modreski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles Baran > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:21 pm > Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint > > > Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes with segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of white paint? > should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could use your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas.? > ? > Chuck Baran? > -- _______________________________________________? > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? > Subscription Services:? > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > From Paintricks at aol.com Mon Dec 1 16:15:13 2008 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 1 16:12:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep brittle material intact? Message-ID: Hello, I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. While some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes apart, like Malachite. What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together when working with smaller or thinner pieces? Thanks, Kevin **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From VevaBailey at aol.com Mon Dec 1 17:21:37 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:21:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep bri... Message-ID: Hi Kevin, Opticon is the best thing to use. Use it the way it says on the can, but I was advised by my lapidary instructor to add more catalyst than recommended. I believe the instructions say to soak over night in the Opticon and then remove stones put the excess Opticon into another container and add catalyst pour over the stones again let set for a while then bake. Bake in an oven at 50 degrees and after 30 minutes turn up the temp another 50 degrees, continue this baking method until your reach 250 degrees, bake for 30 minutes and then start turning down the heat 50 degrees at a time until you reach your starting point. I usually let the stones set over night before trying to work them. Charolite is done the same way. And turquoise can be worked that way too. It has been 5 years since I used this product but it really worked for me. I have a large slice of Charolite that I almost lost due to crumbling but managed to salvage most of it by using Opticon. If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. Veva B. In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:13:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Paintricks@aol.com writes: Hello, I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. While some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes apart, like Malachite. What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together when working with smaller or thinner pieces? Thanks, Kevin **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0000000 2) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 17:32:49 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:32:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep bri... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I assume those temps are Celsius. BK On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 20:21, wrote: > Hi Kevin, > Opticon is the best thing to use. > Use it the way it says on the can, but I was advised by my lapidary > instructor to add more catalyst than recommended. > I believe the instructions say to soak over night in the Opticon and then > remove stones put the excess Opticon into another container and add > catalyst > pour over the stones again let set for a while then bake. > Bake in an oven at 50 degrees and after 30 minutes turn up the temp another > 50 degrees, continue this baking method until your reach 250 degrees, bake > for > 30 minutes and then start turning down the heat 50 degrees at a time until > you reach your starting point. > I usually let the stones set over night before trying to work them. > Charolite is done the same way. And turquoise can be worked that way too. > It has been 5 years since I used this product but it really worked for me. > I have a large slice of Charolite that I almost lost due to crumbling but > managed to salvage most of it by using Opticon. > If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. > > Veva B. > > > > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:13:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Paintricks@aol.com writes: > > Hello, > I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. > While > some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes > apart, > like Malachite. > What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together when > working with smaller or thinner pieces? > Thanks, > Kevin > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > ( > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0000000 > 2) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Dec 1 17:49:37 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:49:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Opticon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01ba01c95420$3c579830$b506c890$@com> No, but my oven doesn't go down to 50 degrees (and I suspect yours doesn't either). You don't want to get the Opticon too hot, but you do want it to gradually heat and cool so it is absorbed by the rock as much as is possible (without a vacuum bell, which is the optimal way to apply any lapidary stabilizer or filler). 250 F is plenty hot. It is completely unnecessary with solid, stable materials like agate & jasper. They won't crack even if heated directly to 250 from room temperature. If they do then they are not good lapidary material to begin with. FWIW there are much easier to use fillers and stabilizers on the market; Opticon is a pretty outdated product (IMO), and it absolutely will yellow with prolonged exposure to UV. I don't really believe that it ever cures fully. The UV curing epoxies are especially attractive since they won't cure until you make them cure, and you can soak them as long as you want at any temperature that you want with no ill effects. For material that is fairly porous, the super-thin cyanoacrylates are the way to go. Most every sphere maker now uses them to fill cracks and harden punky areas in agate, jasper, etc. Quite a few (me, for instance), heat spheres ground to 220 grit in an oven to 200-250 F and then completely coat them with cyanoacrylate (don't try this at home kids); it seems to both seal the porous areas and cracks and helps speed the 400F grinding and polishing. You couldn't do that with any epoxy that I know of... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:33 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep bri... I assume those temps are Celsius. BK On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 20:21, wrote: > Hi Kevin, > Opticon is the best thing to use. > Use it the way it says on the can, but I was advised by my lapidary > instructor to add more catalyst than recommended. > I believe the instructions say to soak over night in the Opticon and then > remove stones put the excess Opticon into another container and add > catalyst > pour over the stones again let set for a while then bake. > Bake in an oven at 50 degrees and after 30 minutes turn up the temp another > 50 degrees, continue this baking method until your reach 250 degrees, bake > for > 30 minutes and then start turning down the heat 50 degrees at a time until > you reach your starting point. > I usually let the stones set over night before trying to work them. > Charolite is done the same way. And turquoise can be worked that way too. > It has been 5 years since I used this product but it really worked for me. > I have a large slice of Charolite that I almost lost due to crumbling but > managed to salvage most of it by using Opticon. > If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. > > Veva B. > > > > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:13:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Paintricks@aol.com writes: > > Hello, > I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. > While > some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes > apart, > like Malachite. > What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together when > working with smaller or thinner pieces? > Thanks, > Kevin > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > ( > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000000 0 > 2) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Dec 1 17:56:34 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:56:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <006d01c95412$c711b220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> References: <49347168.6050500@arczip.com> <006d01c95412$c711b220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <493495D2.8030107@arczip.com> Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it. Take care and Merry Christmas. Chuck Baran >Hi Chuck, >I have tried acrylic artists white paint, latex paint and white oil based >enamel paint for marking specimens. My preference is the enamel due to its >body, it can really fill in the indentations. Usually I apply two to three >coats, when dry use a permanent black marker or India ink with a crow quill >pen point. >I have experimented with a bit of grinding on large specimens to make a flat >spot for the paint. > >Carolyn Reynard > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles Baran" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:21 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint > > > > >>Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes with >>segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of white paint >>should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit >>index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could use >>your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas. >> >>Chuck Baran >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Dec 1 17:59:25 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Mon Dec 1 17:58:55 2008 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Rockhounds] Survival of the firmest - Scientists say rocksevolve too In-Reply-To: <00a801c95094$810b8ed0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <00a801c95094$810b8ed0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <4934967D.1030402@hal-pc.org> Dora Smith wrote: > Haven't we known for a long time that the hardest rocks resist > erosion? Yup, they last the longest. This is why granite from the > foundation of the Earth's crust can be found in the Adirondacks (New > York). I had to consider that something less obvious could lie behind > the subject heading, but thanks someone else for saying that it isn't > new. > Harder rocks do "last longer" as you say, but consider that the mountains of Eastern North America are much older than those of the West, and a whole lot more material had to be removed from them to expose what we now see. A great deal of the center of the country to the depth of many miles is now covered with the remains of that erosion. So maybe hard rocks resist erosion, but it took a long, long time to expose what is now visible. The Appalachians and Laurentians are showing us their remaining roots, not the proud crests they once were. They are incidentally not from the foundation of the Earth's crust, but were the result of the collision of two plates some time in the past. If there are any "ur-rocks" around the East coast of North America, they are buried many miles below the present surface. Consider also that mountain ranges do not just arise and say "Well, here we are..." They may be thrust up continuously over millions of years, and simultaneously worn down so that the average elevation only suggests the amount of material involved. Those hard rocks are eroding fast enough to not rise out of sight. Similar to the deposits in the East, the Great Plains in the West all the way to the Mississippi and the Gulf Coast are covered with the remains of the hard rock eroded from the Rocky Mountain Uplift. Again, consider granite, the very metaphor of "hard rock"; it clearly and quickly shows itself being eroded in its rounding and discoloration of the first few inched of exposed surface. Were it not for that, the whole character of the West and the Western Movie would be different, a lot more jagged and rugged, maybe more "primitive"...(? ) Even the Himalayas, which are the result of a huge upthrust from the Indian plate against Asia in a relatively short geological time, have not risen out of sight, so to speak. And the higher they go, the more wind and water ice, the most effective agents of erosion work on them. (All because water happens to have more volume as a solid than as a liquid. Curious, no?) Maybe the point is that sooner or later, almost all the rock that is created and exposed is eroded out of existence. I should think that the Canadian Shield is one of if not the last remaining exposed "original" pieces of rock on the planet(except for odd pieces here and there); the rest have long since been transformed into newer things or had their core buried under the results of ages and eras of uplift and erosion. We have to appreciate something that is very hard to comprehend, and that is how vast and staggering is the span of geological time. If we were to have a life span of several million years, things would seem to change much more quickly than they do, and even then geological time would seem incredibly long. How fast is fast? It depends on the unit of measure, I guess. > Biologically produced rock isn't an example of survival of the firmest > - LOL, not hardly. Usually it's just newest and closest to the surface. > Is the point an ecological idea that the geological character of the > planet has evolved over time? Problem there is it isn't a > geological principle. And no new facts, just a new way of looking at > what was already known. > Mineralogically speaking, who knows? There is no question that the whole character of the planet would be entirely different without the long term presence of 20 to 25% of free oxygen in the atmosphere. On the other hand, if it were not so, it's not likely that we would be here to speculate on the finer points of any question. Life is interactive with its environment. So be it. > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > -- john From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 18:38:32 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Dec 1 18:38:06 2008 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Rockhounds] Survival of the firmest - Scientists say rocksevolve too In-Reply-To: <4934967D.1030402@hal-pc.org> References: <00a801c95094$810b8ed0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <4934967D.1030402@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: The Larimide Orogeny was supposed to have pushed the Wyoming mountains up to 40,000 feet more or less and the mountains farther south around El Paso up to 25,000 feet. If I recall my old geology. So just the roots of those peaks remain today. You need to head up to the Canadian Shield or Greenland to find really old rock. One thing that impressed me from geology was that we talk about all these periods but the vast majority of the earth's history is unknown and all lumped into "Precambrian". Almost all that is left is just relatively recent material from the final 10% of geological history, except for a few spots. The Adirondacks are supposed to be fairly young they are just formed of rock that was buried 30 km deep a gigayear or so ago, metamorphosed and then uplifted during the Tertiary. Right about the same time as the Larimide was going on or maybe later. BK On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 20:59, jabac wrote: > Dora Smith wrote: > >> Haven't we known for a long time that the hardest rocks resist erosion? >> Yup, they last the longest. This is why granite from the foundation of the >> Earth's crust can be found in the Adirondacks (New York). I had to consider >> that something less obvious could lie behind the subject heading, but thanks >> someone else for saying that it isn't new. >> >> Harder rocks do "last longer" as you say, but consider that the mountains > of Eastern North America are much older than those of the West, and a whole > lot more material had to be removed from them to expose what we now see. A > great deal of the center of the country to the depth of many miles is now > covered with the remains of that erosion. So maybe hard rocks resist > erosion, but it took a long, long time to expose what is now visible. The > Appalachians and Laurentians are showing us their remaining roots, not the > proud crests they once were. They are incidentally not from the foundation > of the Earth's crust, but were the result of the collision of two plates > some time in the past. If there are any "ur-rocks" around the East coast of > North America, they are buried many miles below the present surface. > > Consider also that mountain ranges do not just arise and say "Well, here we > are..." They may be thrust up continuously over millions of years, and > simultaneously worn down so that the average elevation only suggests the > amount of material involved. Those hard rocks are eroding fast enough to not > rise out of sight. Similar to the deposits in the East, the Great Plains in > the West all the way to the Mississippi and the Gulf Coast are covered with > the remains of the hard rock eroded from the Rocky Mountain Uplift. > > Again, consider granite, the very metaphor of "hard rock"; it clearly and > quickly shows itself being eroded in its rounding and discoloration of the > first few inched of exposed surface. Were it not for that, the whole > character of the West and the Western Movie would be different, a lot more > jagged and rugged, maybe more "primitive"...(? ) > > Even the Himalayas, which are the result of a huge upthrust from the Indian > plate against Asia in a relatively short geological time, have not risen out > of sight, so to speak. And the higher they go, the more wind and water ice, > the most effective agents of erosion work on them. (All because water > happens to have more volume as a solid than as a liquid. Curious, no?) > Maybe the point is that sooner or later, almost all the rock that is > created and exposed is eroded out of existence. I should think that the > Canadian Shield is one of if not the last remaining exposed "original" > pieces of rock on the planet(except for odd pieces here and there); the rest > have long since been transformed into newer things or had their core buried > under the results of ages and eras of uplift and erosion. We have to > appreciate something that is very hard to comprehend, and that is how vast > and staggering is the span of geological time. If we were to have a life > span of several million years, things would seem to change much more quickly > than they do, and even then geological time would seem incredibly long. How > fast is fast? It depends on the unit of measure, I guess. > >> Biologically produced rock isn't an example of survival of the firmest - >> LOL, not hardly. Usually it's just newest and closest to the surface. >> Is the point an ecological idea that the geological character of the >> planet has evolved over time? Problem there is it isn't a geological >> principle. And no new facts, just a new way of looking at what was already >> known. >> >> Mineralogically speaking, who knows? There is no question that the whole > character of the planet would be entirely different without the long term > presence of 20 to 25% of free oxygen in the atmosphere. On the other hand, > if it were not so, it's not likely that we would be here to speculate on the > finer points of any question. Life is interactive with its environment. So > be it. > > > Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> -- >> > > > > > john > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 1 19:27:06 2008 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Mon Dec 1 19:26:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Job Possibility Message-ID: <4934AB0A.2070503@rochester.rr.com> Dear Rockhounds, Since the economy is hurting and so many people are out of work, I would like to pass on word of an opportunity that might be of help to the right person. My home-based business, Diamond Dan Publications, has done pretty well for a part-time endeavor. We presently have three titles published and will be adding two more by the end of the year and another early next year. The children's monthly publication subscription base has grown by 25% in the last month. I am eager to find someone familiar with minerals/mineral education who also has some experience in sales that would be interested in selling my products to new markets. For instance, I am hoping someone could get a major school district to use our material in their elementary school earth science curriculum (say NY City, for example). There are lots of possibilities. I'd love to find the right person that would be interested in such a partnership that could be mutually very beneficial. There is some more info at my website (www.diamonddanpublications.net). Click the "Job Opportunity" link at the top of the home page. If you are interested, please email me off list (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com). If you know someone who might be interested, please pass on the info. With gratitude to you all, Darryl Powell Manchester, New York From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 1 20:28:07 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 1 20:27:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <49347168.6050500@arczip.com> Message-ID: <9EAEBE20-C029-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Chuck, I usually stick small, sequentially numbered, paper labels on with washable elmer's glue, but sometimes I use polyurethane. http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Cataloging.shtml One other suggestion I have seen that works is white-out, a fine felt tip pen, and a (liberal) drop of (glossy) polyurethane over the top (to seal it in). Kreigh On Monday, Dec 1, 2008, at 18:21 America/Detroit, Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: I am making "rock kits" for grand kids out of cigar boxes > with segments of wood paint stirrirs. My question is what kind of > white paint > should I use to paint a spot on each rock to put a number for the kit > index? I was considering white enamel model paint, but I sure could > use your advice. Thanks and Merry Christmas. > > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Dec 1 20:45:49 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Dec 1 20:45:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <9EAEBE20-C029-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9EAEBE20-C029-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7aacea01c57504352f41a7dbd46c8abd@ptd.net> A related question, but does anyone know of a source of prenumbered labels? I've seen them, so obviously they exist, but I've not been able to find a supplier. What I'm looking for are small round or rectangular labels, like tiny Avery labels, that are sequentially numbered from, say, 1 to 999. Thanks! Earl Verbeek On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:28:07 -0500, wrote: > Chuck, > > I usually stick small, sequentially numbered, paper labels on with > washable elmer's glue, but sometimes I use polyurethane. > > http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Cataloging.shtml > > One other suggestion I have seen that works is white-out, a fine felt > tip pen, and a (liberal) drop of (glossy) polyurethane over the top (to > seal it in). > > Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 1 21:18:15 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 1 21:17:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <7aacea01c57504352f41a7dbd46c8abd@ptd.net> Message-ID: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Earl, My website has downloadable files of sequentially numbered labels, from 0000 to 9999, you can print and cut out (or modify the format to fit your labels). Kreigh On Monday, Dec 1, 2008, at 23:45 America/Detroit, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > A related question, but does anyone know of a source of prenumbered > labels? > I've seen them, so obviously they exist, but I've not been able to > find a > supplier. What I'm looking for are small round or rectangular labels, > like > tiny Avery labels, that are sequentially numbered from, say, 1 to 999. > > Thanks! Earl Verbeek > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:28:07 -0500, wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> I usually stick small, sequentially numbered, paper labels on with >> washable elmer's glue, but sometimes I use polyurethane. >> >> http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Cataloging.shtml >> >> One other suggestion I have seen that works is white-out, a fine felt >> tip pen, and a (liberal) drop of (glossy) polyurethane over the top >> (to >> seal it in). >> >> Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From VevaBailey at aol.com Mon Dec 1 23:25:47 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 1 23:25:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep bri... Message-ID: No BK, they are fahrenheit, unless a person is a science major we don't use celsius. Veva B In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:33:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, codeburner@gmail.com writes: I assume those temps are Celsius. BK On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 20:21, wrote: > Hi Kevin, > Opticon is the best thing to use. > Use it the way it says on the can, but I was advised by my lapidary > instructor to add more catalyst than recommended. > I believe the instructions say to soak over night in the Opticon and then > remove stones put the excess Opticon into another container and add > catalyst > pour over the stones again let set for a while then bake. > Bake in an oven at 50 degrees and after 30 minutes turn up the temp another > 50 degrees, continue this baking method until your reach 250 degrees, bake > for > 30 minutes and then start turning down the heat 50 degrees at a time until > you reach your starting point. > I usually let the stones set over night before trying to work them. > Charolite is done the same way. And turquoise can be worked that way too. > It has been 5 years since I used this product but it really worked for me. > I have a large slice of Charolite that I almost lost due to crumbling but > managed to salvage most of it by using Opticon. > If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. > > Veva B. > > > > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:13:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Paintricks@aol.com writes: > > Hello, > I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. > While > some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes > apart, > like Malachite. > What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together when > working with smaller or thinner pieces? > Thanks, > Kevin > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW > AOL.com. > ( > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0000000 > 2) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From moni2555 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 2 00:06:43 2008 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Tue Dec 2 00:06:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: METEORITE ? FOUND IN FIELD IN ALPAUGH, CA In-Reply-To: <200812020201.mB221ANU007664@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200812020201.mB221ANU007664@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Hello Veva, I regularly search for meteorites with other rockhounds from Bakersfield and Los Angeles. The meteorites that we find from California and Nevada we send to Dr. Rubin in the Geology Department at UCLA (90095) for classification. (The meteorites that we find in Arizona we send to ASU, if they agree to accept them. Not all universities are interested in classifying meteorites.) When we're not 100% sure that the rock we found is a meteorite, we have it checked-out before sending it to UCLA (we don't want to waste their time with our meteor-wrongs;-). We have one of our team-members, Bob Verish, take a look at it, first, before he hand-carries the find to Dr. Rubin. (You may remember Bob as being the "rockhound" that found the Mars meteorite called Los Angeles.) Although Bob had originally mis-identified his Mars rock as being a terrestrial volcanic bomb, he has since then gone on to learn a lot about meteorites. Over the past 10 years Bob's record at identifying meteorites has been unblemished; having no false positives, and more importantly, no false negatives. Over this period of time the number of "classified" California meteorites has gone from 30 to 190. About half of these new "finds" were first identified by Bob before they were "classified" by UCLA. So, Bob's perfect record isn't based on a small number of meteorites. There are a number of local colleges and labs that I can refer you to, Veva, but it's been our experience that they will take too long and will eventually just defer to the opinion of experts having more expertise with meteorites. Many of the museums and small colleges in LA County and San Bernardino County will contact Bob if they have a "meteorite ?" sent to them, anyway, so I can't make a better recommendation. Feel free to contact me off-list if you have any additional questions, Moni > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 2. Re: Emailing: METEORITE ? FOUND IN FIELD IN ALPAUGH, CA > (VevaBailey@aol.com) > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:18:32 EST > From: VevaBailey@aol.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Emailing: METEORITE ? FOUND IN FIELD IN > ALPAUGH, CA > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Thank you Kreigh, I never thought about Jerry's local rock club. > I am knowledgeable about some minerals but I didn't see anything in this > rock. I didn't have a magnet to test it with, so I didn't. > Because of where Jerry found the rock and knowing there aren't rocks around > there I was thinking that it could have been a meteorite. > The same night I saw a meteorite fall just north of the prison which is > about 5 miles north of where Jerry lives. I thought about going and seeing if I > could find it but thought better of going around a prison in the dark. LOL. > > Veva B > > On Sunday, Nov 30, 2008, at 19:44 America/Detroit, VevaBailey@aol.com > wrote: > > > Hello List! > > My husbands cousin, Jerry, found this "rock" in Alpaugh, CA > > while plowing upa field. > > He said it was just laying on top of the soil, not buried. > > There aren't very many rocks that are natural in that area. > > Alpaugh is or was a lake bed many thousands of years ago and is > > completely flat. > > This field is used to grow cotton and other crops. > > I don't know how to tell if the "rock" is a meteorite or what, so > > could some of you give me some input? > > > > Veva B. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 55, Issue 1 > ***************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Color coding for safety: Windows Live Hotmail alerts you to suspicious email. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_safety_112008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 00:15:48 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 00:16:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi List, In the course of getting my collection organized (thousands of unlabeled specimens...I know, shame on me, but better late...) I came across a fist-sized chunk of pyrite crystals with what I'm guessing might be feldspar (lusterous opaque white to slightly pinkish). But I'm also seeing large areas of bright silver that's more massive rather than having defined crystals. I'm guessing galena. Does pyrite, feldspar, galena sound like a likely combination? I got it in trade a while back and the label reads simply, "Pyrite, Darwin, CA". Anyone amiliar with the area? I'ts too late in the evening to dig out the hardness points and HCL to do any tests. And I can't photograph it because I can't find my camera batteries. But that could happen tomorrow. Thanks - John From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 01:04:52 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 01:05:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi All, As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing a huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental gridlock when it comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply grab the first one I see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should I start with the more impressive specimens and work my way down from there? Should I work chronologically from earliest collected to most recent (although that sounds unlikely)? How to deal with multiples (like the dozens of stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they all get the same number? I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), fossils being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that getting pretty whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this process in a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later date. Like that will ever happen! Thanks for any input - John From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Dec 2 03:00:55 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Tue Dec 2 03:00:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <49351567.8060508@hal-pc.org> John Siebel wrote: > Hi All, > > As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing > a huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental > gridlock when it comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply > grab the first one I see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should > I start with the more impressive specimens and work my way down from > there? Should I work chronologically from earliest collected to most > recent (although that sounds unlikely)? How to deal with multiples > (like the dozens of stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they > all get the same number? > > I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), > fossils being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that > getting pretty whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? > > Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this > process in a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later > date. Like that will ever happen! > > Thanks for any input - John > How would you organize a library of books? The Library of Congress does it by categories. But they also do it by acquisition number. It's all in the catalogue! So, does the actual numbering matter a great deal as long as the location is known and easily found later? The key is in the catalogue. So perhaps the major system might be by sort e.g. Category::book = Dana::mineral (or some such system; remember there is also the Dewey System for books). Then a subsystem for location within the division by sort. And don't forget that a "numbering" system can also be alphanumeric. In other words, like creating databases, most of the work is in the thinking through how the whole thing fits together in the first place! Visit some museums and talk to curators. How do they do the organizing and numbering? Ask Mindat. Talk to authors of field and identification guides; look at some of them and how they are organized. I think after a few weeks of thinking about the problem, your solution will be obvious to you. It may not fit anybody else's circumstances...but no matter if it works for you...and is well catalogued! john From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 04:55:56 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 2 04:55:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: grinding specimens for cabs, ...What coating to keep bri... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Then your oven must have a cooler in it to get 50 degrees F, or you live in a very cold climate....heh BK On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 02:25, wrote: > No BK, they are fahrenheit, unless a person is a science major we don't use > celsius. > > Veva B > > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:33:24 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > codeburner@gmail.com writes: > > I assume those temps are Celsius. > > BK > > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 20:21, wrote: > > > Hi Kevin, > > Opticon is the best thing to use. > > Use it the way it says on the can, but I was advised by my lapidary > > instructor to add more catalyst than recommended. > > I believe the instructions say to soak over night in the Opticon and > then > > remove stones put the excess Opticon into another container and add > > catalyst > > pour over the stones again let set for a while then bake. > > Bake in an oven at 50 degrees and after 30 minutes turn up the temp > another > > 50 degrees, continue this baking method until your reach 250 degrees, > bake > > for > > 30 minutes and then start turning down the heat 50 degrees at a time > until > > you reach your starting point. > > I usually let the stones set over night before trying to work them. > > Charolite is done the same way. And turquoise can be worked that way > too. > > It has been 5 years since I used this product but it really worked for > me. > > I have a large slice of Charolite that I almost lost due to crumbling > but > > managed to salvage most of it by using Opticon. > > If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. > > > > Veva B. > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 4:13:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > Paintricks@aol.com writes: > > > > Hello, > > I just acquired a cabbing machine and am learning to work material. > > While > > some material is easy to cut and polish(silica material), some comes > > apart, > > like Malachite. > > What's a good coating to prep material like this to keep it together > when > > working with smaller or thinner pieces? > > Thanks, > > Kevin > > **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the > NEW > > AOL.com. > > ( > > > > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0000000 > > 2) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 05:52:50 2008 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Dec 2 05:52:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens Message-ID: <482122.45184.qm@web83501.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> John, Just to give you a little bit of input, how I catalog my collection is here: http://hammerron.com/minerals/cataloging.htm There are indeed so many different ways !...Please let us know what you decide upon. Ron ________________________________ From: John Siebel To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:04:52 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) Hi All, As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing a huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental gridlock when it comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply grab the first one I see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should I start with the more impressive specimens and work my way down from there? Should I work chronologically from earliest collected to most recent (although that sounds unlikely)? How to deal with multiples (like the dozens of stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they all get the same number? I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), fossils being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that getting pretty whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this process in a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later date. Like that will ever happen! Thanks for any input - John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 06:16:42 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Dec 2 06:15:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4935434A.7020706@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > Hi All, > > As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing a > huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental gridlock > when it comes to numbering them. Hi John, I've written and spoken a number of times on this, and the answer is really simple. The specimen number is nothing more than a link to a file containing information about the specimen. Therefore there is no need or benefit to creating a byzantine system that tries to encapsulate characteristics of the specimen into the label itself. In the process of researching this issue, I spoke to a number of major mineral museums. The difficulty there is that a lot of museums are using legacy systems that they may never be able to update, given the time and money available. However, given a choice, and the availability of computers, many curators expressed a desire to be able to start all over again with a simple cataloguing system. None of them were entirely happy with software systems that they'd bought, either, since these are usually either created by programmers who don't understand mineral data or by collectors who don't understand relational database programming. The same thing with collectors: many mineral collectors (including us!) are in or approaching middle age, and began collecting when the only filing system was paper. However, given the opportunity to start all over again in the computer age, many collectors would use a simpler and more efficient system than what they have. So yes, a simple numbering system allows easy cataloguing, easy retrieval of information, and easy auditing of the collection. I think it is a good idea to use a prefix, for example, DJH-1. In the case where you have a database system, you can have the prefix as a separate text field that gets prepended to the number when the catalog or label is printed. The advantage of this is that the field containing the number can be defined as numeric and auto-incremented, which keeps the computer side of things in good order. If someone wanted to keep their collections separate based on fossils, minerals, etc., a separate prefix could be used for each. The important thing is to have a sequential set of numbers as the core of the index system. Don't forget to think of the legacy left to your successors, heirs, or assigns. One would imagine that if one cares enough to catalog a collection, one would also care about what happens to it. Over time, specimens become sold, traded, or lost. If someone were to buy or inherit your entire collection, it would be easy for them to line up all the specimens in numerical order and see what is missing and how many there are. It is easy to take the printed catalogue (which, by the way, should be printed on acide-free paper and kept in an archival ring binder so that changes may be made easily) and match up the listings to the specimens. If you obtain a collection where specimens are labeled as "BD-34-L22" and "VS-4450-ASL," where do you begin? How would someone order them, and how is the catalogue organized? I believe it was our list member Tim Jokela who once said, "do not try to use the label as the catalog entry," or words to that effect; in any case, and whoever said it, I have used this phrase frequently over the years. If you ask about this issue on a certain website, you are likely to get as many answers as there are people, and lots of chest-beating and arm-waving about who has the best system, etc. Just keep in mind that many people are operating under old concepts and methods. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to re-do their whole cataloguing system if they've had their own for decades; on the other hand, if someone is just starting to catalogue, there is no logical reason in the world to use anything but a simple indexing system. Good luck, Don From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Dec 2 07:01:31 2008 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (Pete Richards) Date: Tue Dec 2 07:01:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Paint In-Reply-To: <7aacea01c57504352f41a7dbd46c8abd@ptd.net> References: <9EAEBE20-C029-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <7aacea01c57504352f41a7dbd46c8abd@ptd.net> Message-ID: <517D4EF5-49BD-4831-8B6B-BE75FC6A198D@heidelberg.edu> I just generate lists in Excel and print them on a laser printer. I have to cut them out and glue them on, but the price is right! Pete Richards On Dec 1, 2008, at 11:45 PM, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > A related question, but does anyone know of a source of prenumbered > labels? > I've seen them, so obviously they exist, but I've not been able to > find a > supplier. What I'm looking for are small round or rectangular > labels, like > tiny Avery labels, that are sequentially numbered from, say, 1 to 999. > > Thanks! Earl Verbeek > > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 23:28:07 -0500, wrote: >> Chuck, >> >> I usually stick small, sequentially numbered, paper labels on with >> washable elmer's glue, but sometimes I use polyurethane. >> >> http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/Cataloging.shtml >> >> One other suggestion I have seen that works is white-out, a fine felt >> tip pen, and a (liberal) drop of (glossy) polyurethane over the >> top (to >> seal it in). >> >> Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 2 07:02:14 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 2 07:05:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <14480C55918249669916D4CDE4968D44@LarryRush> John: I use a sequential numerical system, and one of the advantages I find is that when a specimen is removed from the database, it is easy to delete the record fields, and leave the number intact for "refill" later. It is also easy to find the blank spaces with the number still existing by doing a database search for blank records. That way the database maintains it's integrity. Larry Rush ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 4:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) > Hi All, > > As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing a > huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental gridlock when > it comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply grab the first one > I see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should I start with the more > impressive specimens and work my way down from there? Should I work > chronologically from earliest collected to most recent (although that > sounds unlikely)? How to deal with multiples (like the dozens of > stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they all get the same number? > > I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), fossils > being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that getting pretty > whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? > > Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this process > in a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later date. Like > that will ever happen! > > Thanks for any input - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From batsondebelfry at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 07:39:29 2008 From: batsondebelfry at yahoo.com (Neal Hazen) Date: Tue Dec 2 07:39:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation Message-ID: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have some Peruvian chrysocolla. As a 5 lb mass, it is stable enough. However, it won't slab without crumbling. I am looking for specific advice on methods of stabilizing this material before I put it in the slab saw. I have washed the rock in detergent, then soaked it in acetone to prepare it. It's beautiful enough to be worth the cost of cyanoacrylate, if that is the best way to go. I am seeking a stabilizer that will give a minimum of 15mm penetration. The folks who stabilize turquoise seem to have the procedure and stabilizer locked down pretty well, but I have been unable to find a discussion of their technique. I dislike stabilizing any rock intended for making into cabochons, but that is the only way this material will ever be anything other than a paperweight. Neal Hazen "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson --------------- 'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.' Theodore Roosevelt 1907 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Dec 2 07:51:06 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Dec 2 07:41:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006601c95495$c9951220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hi John, I don't believe I have any feldspars with those associations. Yes, you must dig out your hardness points and HCL to narrow down the identification. Look for cleavage flash and check the weight. Calcite or Barite might be the white mineral. Feldspar is a Silicate, Pyrite and Galena are sulfides, Barite is a sulfate and Calcite a carbonate. Your specimen is possibly from a hydrothermal replacement deposit. I hope this helps! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite > Hi List, > > In the course of getting my collection organized (thousands of unlabeled > specimens...I know, shame on me, but better late...) I came across a > fist-sized chunk of pyrite crystals with what I'm guessing might be feldspar > (lusterous opaque white to slightly pinkish). But I'm also seeing large > areas of bright silver that's more massive rather than having defined > crystals. I'm guessing galena. Does pyrite, feldspar, galena sound like a > likely combination? I got it in trade a while back and the label reads > simply, "Pyrite, Darwin, CA". Anyone amiliar with the area? I'ts too late in > the evening to dig out the hardness points and HCL to do any tests. And I > can't photograph it because I can't find my camera batteries. But that could > happen tomorrow. > > Thanks - John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Dec 2 07:44:36 2008 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Dec 2 07:44:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lots of good ideas are being provided for numbering systems. I use a sequential number on specimens in my personal collection, mainly because it's a legacy from my Dad, and as I enter info into a database, sequential numbers are easy to enter and let me know what kind of progress I'm making. I also print out a sheet of sequential numbers (about 8pt font) on a PSA sheet, then score the sheet with a razor knife and ruler so I can peel off the numbers as I need them to stick them to the specimen. But at work, where I have several collections to curate, we use the Dana number followed by a letter (a-z, aa-zz, etc.) for multiple specimens of the same material. The weakness of this method is what to do when there's more than one mineral in a specimen (we use the dominant or most significant mineral on the sample). The number is written with a drafting pen on white lacquer (nail polish) spot on the specimen, then covered with clear nail polish when dry. It's time-consuming, but durable. The strength is that if a sample gets misplaced, we can immediately get an idea of what's in the sample if we can't ID it on sight, and get it back to its proper location. (Clever students have used this to help them on mineral ID quizzes, though.) The Dana numbers are readily searchable in a database, and I'm gradually converting the file cards to a FileMakerPro database. Older specimens in the UMKC collection (form when it was Kansas City University) were classified by group (T for tectosilicates, C for cyclosilicates, P for phyllosilicates, etc.), followed by a sequential number. We've assigned new accession numbers for those to better integrate them into our file system. Jim Murowchick On 12/2/08 3:04 AM, "John Siebel" wrote: > Hi All, > > As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing a huge > amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental gridlock when it > comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply grab the first one I > see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should I start with the more > impressive specimens and work my way down from there? Should I work > chronologically from earliest collected to most recent (although that sounds > unlikely)? How to deal with multiples (like the dozens of > stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they all get the same number? > > I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), fossils > being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that getting pretty > whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? > > Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this process in > a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later date. Like that > will ever happen! > > Thanks for any input - John > From OnyxCollector at aol.com Tue Dec 2 08:09:39 2008 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 2 08:09:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite Message-ID: Yep, those three are found at various mines in Darwin, CA. If you google "Darwin Mine feldspar" and other alternatives you can read articles regarding this. Do you/trust the label maker? In a message dated 12/2/2008 12:17:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: Hi List, In the course of getting my collection organized (thousands of unlabeled specimens...I know, shame on me, but better late...) I came across a fist-sized chunk of pyrite crystals with what I'm guessing might be feldspar (lusterous opaque white to slightly pinkish). But I'm also seeing large areas of bright silver that's more massive rather than having defined crystals. I'm guessing galena. Does pyrite, feldspar, galena sound like a likely combination? I got it in trade a while back and the label reads simply, "Pyrite, Darwin, CA". Anyone amiliar with the area? I'ts too late in the evening to dig out the hardness points and HCL to do any tests. And I can't photograph it because I can't find my camera batteries. But that could happen tomorrow. Thanks - John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Tue Dec 2 10:15:45 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Dec 2 10:15:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <4935434A.7020706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20081202181545.936E21CC44@io.frii.com> Don, nice essay... > I think it is a good idea to use a prefix, for example, DJH-1... In the computer science field, the prefix establishes uniqueness in a larger context, which is referred to as a "namespace". Consider how domain names like drizzle.com are assigned... There's a reference authority for the top level of the namespace, and each lower level, to ensure uniqueness. There being no such reference authority for "labeling collectibles", you can't guarantee there's no other "DJH" out there, but using a prefix like that greatly increases the odds of uniqueness. Maybe what we need is SP addresses (Specimen Protocol) for labeling collectibles? :-) But even domain-like names get unwieldy for physically attaching to objects... Better to keep them as short as possible, as keys into a related database that must "travel with" the specimen in some manner, to have any meaning. Personally I don't get into "canonical" collecting, although I sort my keepers by type, etc. I do label some boxes, and I white-glue a handwritten label onto some of my items, just to remind me what they are, and for later gee-whiz value to anyone else. But I have no illusions about permanence of the labels, or of their information value... I'm not trying to accession to a museum collection, after all. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From brenick at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 10:23:40 2008 From: brenick at gmail.com (Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Tue Dec 2 10:23:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation In-Reply-To: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <97175ae90812021023v176b953bt4207133d5a4e490e@mail.gmail.com> Neal, Sorry, no help here, but I wanted to tell you I really like your quotes! Brenda On 12/2/08, Neal Hazen wrote: > > I have some Peruvian chrysocolla. As a 5 lb mass, it is stable enough. > However, it won't slab without crumbling. I am looking for specific advice > on methods of stabilizing this material before I put it in the slab saw. I > have washed the rock in detergent, then soaked it in acetone to prepare it. > It's beautiful enough to be worth the cost of cyanoacrylate, if that is the > best way to go. I am seeking a stabilizer that will give a minimum of 15mm > penetration. The folks who stabilize turquoise seem to have the procedure > and stabilizer locked down pretty well, but I have been unable to find a > discussion of their technique. I dislike stabilizing any rock intended for > making into cabochons, but that is the only way this material will ever be > anything other than a paperweight. > > Neal Hazen > > "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to > take away everything you have." > > Thomas Jefferson > --------------- > 'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here > in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be > treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to > discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or > origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an > American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance > here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an > American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have > room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we > have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American > people.' > > Theodore Roosevelt 1907 > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Brenda Van Dyke, Editor Arrowhead News Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club Wyoming, Michigan www.indianmoundsrockclub.com brenick@gmail.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smkell45 at aol.com Tue Dec 2 10:48:37 2008 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 2 10:48:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] collector identification Message-ID: <8CB22C5B8590AA5-A98-403@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Over the past several years I have bought specimens with? a label of J.H. Marshall Jr. and? either Dedham or Acoaxet, Massachusetts. Frequently, along with the label is a 3x5 card with personal information on how he acquired the specimen.? I believe that he has written mineral articles for? several mineral magazines.?? Anyone have any info on this collector, for my label. Thanks smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Dec 2 14:47:02 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Dec 2 14:46:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] collector identification In-Reply-To: <8CB22C5B8590AA5-A98-403@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB22C5B8590AA5-A98-403@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: John H. Marshall Jr. died this summer. I never had the pleasure of meeting him but I do know that he was very involved in the tourmaline discoverises at the Dunton Mine in Maine. A google search using "John H Marshall" minerals will lead you to several of his articles in Rocks and Minerals and the Mineralogical Record. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:48 PM, wrote: > Hi. Over the past several years I have bought specimens with? a label of > J.H. Marshall Jr. and? either Dedham or Acoaxet, Massachusetts. Frequently, > along with the label is a 3x5 card with personal information on how he > acquired the specimen.? I believe that he has written mineral articles for? > several mineral magazines.?? Anyone have any info on this collector, for my > label. Thanks smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 2 15:27:26 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 2 15:26:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Mindat lists 56 minerals from the location, including the ones you mentioned (orthoclase=feldspar). http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html You must have been up too late if you didn't think to check Mindat. Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 2, 2008, at 03:15 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > Hi List, > > In the course of getting my collection organized (thousands of > unlabeled specimens...I know, shame on me, but better late...) I came > across a fist-sized chunk of pyrite crystals with what I'm guessing > might be feldspar (lusterous opaque white to slightly pinkish). But > I'm also seeing large areas of bright silver that's more massive > rather than having defined crystals. I'm guessing galena. Does pyrite, > feldspar, galena sound like a likely combination? I got it in trade a > while back and the label reads simply, "Pyrite, Darwin, CA". Anyone > amiliar with the area? I'ts too late in the evening to dig out the > hardness points and HCL to do any tests. And I can't photograph it > because I can't find my camera batteries. But that could happen > tomorrow. > > Thanks - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 2 16:07:29 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 2 16:06:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5FD3C716-C0CE-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> John, If you had started numbering specimens when you started collecting they would roughly be in a time sequence. But the number is just a unique identifier to tie together the specimen, the label, and the catalog entry. If you have ten specimens of the same rock from the same trip you have ten numbers (some of them may turn out to have micro crystals of something unique). And it really doesn't matter what order you put them in. If you want to try sub-classifying you are going to have the problem of remembering the next sequence number for each sub-classification. I have specimens from old collections that used a Dana # -- sequence number to identify each specimen. A different sub class for every mineral, each with its own sequence number. Seems to be overkill to me. If you don't want to maintain a 'where did I put the specimen' field in your catalog, organize your specimens by sequence number. Otherwise the sequence number is just a unique identifier. Put your catalog on the computer. You can slice and dice your collection into any kind of sub-category easily to get a list of matching specimen numbers to go pull out of the collection. So grab the nearest specimen, slap a Siebel0001 label on it, put the same number on the label, and create a catalog entry. Grab the next one and repeat with the next number. If your needs change along the way, all you need to do is add some fields to your catalog; no need to change the numbers. Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 2, 2008, at 04:04 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > Hi All, > > As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm getting a start on organizing > a huge amount of unlabeled specimens. But I'm hitting a mental > gridlock when it comes to numbering them. Where to start? Do I simply > grab the first one I see and give it the honor of being #0001? Should > I start with the more impressive specimens and work my way down from > there? Should I work chronologically from earliest collected to most > recent (although that sounds unlikely)? How to deal with multiples > (like the dozens of stilbite/calcite/quartz from XYZ Quarry)? Do they > all get the same number? > > I'm also consider sub-classification (if that's the right term), > fossils being f-0001 or 0001-f for instance. But I can see that > getting pretty whacky with the rest of the collection. Any thoughts? > > Perhaps Julie's OCD is rubbing off on me but I want to start this > process in a logical manner so I'm not tempted to redo it at a later > date. Like that will ever happen! > > Thanks for any input - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 17:21:34 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 17:22:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) References: <5FD3C716-C0CE-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <33B2179FBDD04E2F81F26AC9043BACF6@Notebook> Thanks to all for your input on this! I'd address you all individually, but I don't need to clog the list. Kreigh Wrote: > If you had started numbering specimens when you started collecting they > would roughly be in a time sequence. Actually, I started collecting when I was about 9 years-old, then gave it up when I was old enough to chase girls. Unfortunately, I caught one. Her mother (my ex mother-in-law, "Squirrelly Shirley") threw that collection out (including a pristine Mazon Creek fern...ARRG!) I got back into collecting in a serious way when Julie and I took a roadtrip up to Michigan while I was working in Illinois. So I'm over my personal gridlock. It's clear to me that the honor of #0001 goes to (tada!) a 6" x 2" sheet of native copper from a mine dump near Houghton, Keweenaw Peninsula, MI. First runner up is a 10" diameter vug of quartz crystals from Mill Creek Quarry in OR. Now that I'm over the hump, the rest is just a matter of time...lots of it. As an aside - I'm enjoying the heck out this process as I relive the experience of each collecting trip and the, "Whoa! Julie look at this!" that each specimen brings to mind. That's the joy I get out of this avocation. Thanks again to all - John From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Dec 2 17:31:12 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Dec 2 17:30:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens / Collections catalogs References: <5FD3C716-C0CE-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <26DE1E1B6E374C66A9F96EC9F211D54B@Goldstein> My fossil and mineral collection cataloging began in ~1979. The minerals are a numerical sequence by mineral class, the fossils have a letter-number sequence (Crinoid = CRI123, etc.). Would I use the same system if starting today? Minerals - no, fossils - yes. I don't even want to bother entering the collection in a computer database because I have too many specimens. It would take me months. I've separated my mineral and fossil collection catalogs because I don't have a three-ring binder large enough to hold their combined pages. I do keep a copy of my catalog in a drawer at work and I have been slowly photgraphing my collection and copying it to CDs. That is one reason why I have posted 1,300 mineral photos on mindat. The motivation to catalog started when I was a high school student volunteering at the natural history museum that was getting ready to re-open. I saw how much history was recorded in Gerard Troost's catalogs (written between 1828 - 1849). Whether my personal collection and catalogs will end up in a museum remains to be seen. I hope my fossil collection does and at least the interesting locality specimens from my area. My fossil collection is already too large to donate to the park interpretive center where I work. In any case, I hope I have a few more decades to add to the collection. Nearly 20 years ago, while science curator at the museum where I volunteered a decade earlier, I accessioned a mineral collection from a shotgun-style house in west Louisville. The house had floor jacks to keep the rocks from warping the joists! The collection was not top-quality, but contained a seven volume catalog and collections of correspondence, dealer catalogs and magazines dating back to ~1870. That started my saving correspondence and memoriabilia. Luckily (for me) my wife puts up with it! She use to collect with me until health issues arose. I have work spaces in and around the house and she has her space so she only complains right after a major collecting trip before I have a chance to move things out of the kitchen or around the computer work station. Right now I have brought home a very large mineral exhibit from the interpretive center and am trying to put everything away. It will take a few days, but it gives me a chance to reorganize a storage cabinet. Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) > John, > > If you had started numbering specimens when you started collecting they > would roughly be in a time sequence. But the number is just a unique > identifier to tie together the specimen, the label, and the catalog entry. > If you have ten specimens of the same rock from the same trip you have ten > numbers (some of them may turn out to have micro crystals of something > unique). And it really doesn't matter what order you put them in. > > If you want to try sub-classifying you are going to have the problem of > remembering the next sequence number for each sub-classification. I have > specimens from old collections that used a Dana # -- sequence number to > identify each specimen. A different sub class for every mineral, each with > its own sequence number. Seems to be overkill to me. > > If you don't want to maintain a 'where did I put the specimen' field in > your catalog, organize your specimens by sequence number. Otherwise the > sequence number is just a unique identifier. Put your catalog on the > computer. You can slice and dice your collection into any kind of > sub-category easily to get a list of matching specimen numbers to go pull > out of the collection. > > So grab the nearest specimen, slap a Siebel0001 label on it, put the same > number on the label, and create a catalog entry. Grab the next one and > repeat with the next number. If your needs change along the way, all you > need to do is add some fields to your catalog; no need to change the > numbers. > > Kreigh From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 17:55:26 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 17:56:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <006601c95495$c9951220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <07A4A279F31C45F2AF8CB1CF6D689F14@Notebook> Thanks Carolyn, But what is "Cleavage Flash"? When I Google it all I get is porn sites! :-) John From: "Carolyn Reynard" >Yes, you must dig out your hardness points and HCL to narrow down the > identification. Look for cleavage flash From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 2 17:57:49 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:00:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Christmas Wish References: <8CB22C5B8590AA5-A98-403@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: List: I have been corresponding with a young man in Brazil who is a mineral collector there. I was hoping to be able to buy or trade some Minas Gerais specimens from him, and we had been talking about that in several ways until recently, when he informed me that he lost his job with the city where he works, and he now cannot afford the postage to send minerals. Ordinarily, this would not be of a great concern to me, except that he happened to mention that his 4 year old son will not have a Christmas this year, due to the expense. Now, for a young man to forego getting some minerals is one thing, but hearing that a 4 year old cannot have Christmas presents is quite another! I would like to ask the list if there are any members who might have some toys, maybe a computer game, perhaps some clothes, whatever a child might be able to celebrate Christams with, if they might consider sending them along to this family, so that their boy will not miss having a Christmas this year. If so, let me know off-line, and I will send the mailing address along (and a photo of this boy) for your use. I apologize for using the list for a non-mineral issue, but, after all, it is that time of year!! Larry Rush From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 18:08:45 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:09:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite References: Message-ID: <2F83A9827CC64F27B5B5E6A1FB120B67@Notebook> Thanks again all who responded. Great list this! From: OnyxCollector >Do you/trust the label maker? Hard to say. This was in a box of trade items from a list member who often buys in lots. The label could be second or third generation. From: Kreigh >You must have been up too late if you didn't think to check Mindat. It was pretty late Kreigh. But I did check Mindat for the location and it came up with nada. I am a newbie driving it though and didn't include, "Pyrite". Ah so much to learn with this seive of a brain. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 2 18:42:35 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:41:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <33B2179FBDD04E2F81F26AC9043BACF6@Notebook> Message-ID: <0A7C1715-C0E4-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> John, Your catalog is where you want to record the experience of your collecting trips. Your memory may get hazy over time, but documented details will help keep it fresh. Tidbits about when and where and how a specimen was collected make the specimen more valuable to you, and to anyone who may come into possession of it in the future. Every specimen in our collections holds a bit of history. Each specimen captures some geological history, but needs an accurate locality to put it into context. Each specimen captures some history of the locality but needs a time frame to put it into context. Each specimen captures some of your life, but needs your personal comments/observations to put it into context. Be not afraid to take time with each specimen. You have already recognized it will take years to catch up (I'm still working on it slowly, and I have years of a head start on you), so you might as well take time to do it right. BTW, and I think Julie will also appreciate this, I started cataloging with 0001, but my first label was 0000; I'm still trying to figure out which specimen deserves first place in my catalog, but I'm only about half done cataloging my collection (and I started ten years ago). I hope your question, and the many well thought out responses from the list, will inspire other collectors to start cataloging their collection. The memories it invokes makes the effort worthwhile, and enhances the value of the collection you curate. Enjoy! Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 2, 2008, at 20:21 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > > As an aside - I'm enjoying the heck out this process as I relive the > experience of each collecting trip and the, "Whoa! Julie look at > this!" that each specimen brings to mind. That's the joy I get out of > this avocation. > > Thanks again to all - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From OnyxCollector at aol.com Tue Dec 2 18:47:08 2008 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:46:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Christmas Wish Message-ID: Larry, I don't need a photo, but the name and address will do. How cool to send a secret Santa gift! David In a message dated 12/2/2008 6:02:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, larryrush@worldnet.att.net writes: List: I have been corresponding with a young man in Brazil who is a mineral collector there. I was hoping to be able to buy or trade some Minas Gerais specimens from him, and we had been talking about that in several ways until recently, when he informed me that he lost his job with the city where he works, and he now cannot afford the postage to send minerals. Ordinarily, this would not be of a great concern to me, except that he happened to mention that his 4 year old son will not have a Christmas this year, due to the expense. Now, for a young man to forego getting some minerals is one thing, but hearing that a 4 year old cannot have Christmas presents is quite another! I would like to ask the list if there are any members who might have some toys, maybe a computer game, perhaps some clothes, whatever a child might be able to celebrate Christams with, if they might consider sending them along to this family, so that their boy will not miss having a Christmas this year. If so, let me know off-line, and I will send the mailing address along (and a photo of this boy) for your use. I apologize for using the list for a non-mineral issue, but, after all, it is that time of year!! Larry Rush -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Dec 2 18:48:24 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Dec 2 18:47:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] I D Numbers when cataloging Message-ID: <10603.16907.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: Alan's remarks about computer science are in general correct.? In my career as an information technologist with the Department of? Environmental Protection, I have seen many schemes devised by scientists to embed data into identification? numbers.? This is a misuse of the ID number, which should only be a unique identifier. The permit number issued by WV DEP for coal mines, for example, embeds a permit type, region ID, the year the application was received, and a counter per region of how many applications were received before the permit in question was submitted, all in a 7-character field.? All this data is captured in a more useful manner in other fields related to the permit ID. Ideally, data keys should be information free, except for the fact of the key and its uniqueness.? This is practically so because in relational databases it is difficult ( sort of impossible) to change a key field when it contains a data item which is discovered to be in error later on, as key fields are usually propagated to other DB tables containing the real data fields about the item in question. Most recently, we usually assign an ID to a field that isn't even displayed to users when tracking documents, lists, event dates, etc.? For tracking something physical, like a rock, this isn't practical.? You need to label the rock with its ID, and use that ID to associate all the related data (minerals present, locale, date of accession, source, cost, etc) with the rock in question. So (to be a little less technical) I'm recommending that you start with 00001 (or 0000001 if you're ambitious) for the first rock you pick up to catalog, and add 1 for each subesequent item to catalog.? Then put all the information about that rock on a record (index card, spreadsheet row, database table row) and identify that record with the same number randomly assigned to the rock. If you're really OCD you'll have other database tables with all the mineral names, all the localities, all the dealers you've purchased from, all the collectors you've traded with, so that you can't make a mistake by referring to a non-existant mineral, a misspelled locality, etc.? That's creating a real database for your records. That's not really OCD, it's just good computer science. JR in WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 2 19:09:27 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 2 19:08:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] I D Numbers when cataloging In-Reply-To: <10603.16907.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Amen! Use a simple sequential number, but prefix it with something that ties the sequence to you. Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 2, 2008, at 21:48 America/Detroit, J. R. Hodel wrote: > Ideally, data keys should be information free, except for the fact of > the key and its uniqueness.? This is practically so because in > relational databases it is difficult ( sort of impossible) to change a > key field when it contains a data item which is discovered to be in > error later on, as key fields are usually propagated to other DB > tables containing the real data fields about the item in question. > From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 19:38:30 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Dec 2 19:36:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <20081202181545.936E21CC44@io.frii.com> References: <20081202181545.936E21CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <4935FF36.90202@verizon.net> Alan Silverstein wrote: > In the computer science field, the prefix establishes uniqueness in a > larger context, which is referred to as a "namespace". Oh please don't remind me, I retired from that career. But anyway, there was no intention of uniqueness, though it certainly does narrow down the possibilities. Some people are averse to simply using plain numbers, and I don't blame them. Also, when you loan out your specimens, it makes them easier to pick out from among others. It is important to remember to keep the label as small as possible, in order not to be intrusive. I wholeheartedly support the idea of using Excel (which I use myself already) to fill cells sequentially with the numbers you want. I print in 4-point type and cut them out using a ruler and razor knife. Don't forget that it helps to print on acid-free cotton paper and attach using neutral-pH archival glue. Over time, I have seen all sorts of white-out and paints crack, yellow, and flake off. Nothing is forever, but a paper label attached with a water-based glue is easily replaceable or removable. Another thing I really dislike is trying to remove a gaudy, crumbly, old splotch of paint with a smeared and faded number. Of course, specimens that are very small, friable, or water-soluble require special labeling on a case-by-case basis. The down-side of labeling a collection by Dana, Strunz, or structural class is that these things change over time as minerals are renamed and reclassified. Oh, one more thing: > John: I use a sequential numerical system, and one of the advantages I > find is that when a specimen is removed from the database, it is easy > to delete the record fields, and leave the number intact for "refill" > later. Why not just have a check box for "deaccessioned" with a comment field that indicates sold, lost, traded, donated, or stolen? Strictly speaking, a number shouldn't be re-used. The nice thing about computer programs is that, when you print your catalog, you can choose to ignore missing specimens by a command such as " . . . where DEACCESSIONED not equal YES". That depends of course on the language or script you are using. I prefer to print it all out, so that no pages or numbers are missing from the printed catalog. These ideas are drawn from the input of curators, librarians, and archivists of my acquaintance and to whom I have written. Of course, such serious cataloguing is not for everyone, but the knowledge is there for those who aspire to maintain their specimens not only for themselves but for future collectors. If I think of more tips I will pass them on. best to all, Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 2 20:07:34 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 2 20:08:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) References: <20081202181545.936E21CC44@io.frii.com> <4935FF36.90202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1FEB13F58F4040A69812D7689E345773@Notebook> Thanks Don, I plan on keeping this as simple as possible. I am numbering all specimens sequentially with no repeated numbers regardless of prefix or suffix. The prefix will identify the collection as unique to Julie and I. We're discussing what this should be. Sorta like naming a baby I would assume. The only suffix I have in mind is an "F" for fossils. We'll see where that goes before I write them in stone..so to speak. I am currently entering everything in Excel as I know Julie can finesse this data into whatever database works best. >Don't forget that it helps to print on acid-free cotton paper and attach >using neutral-pH archival glue. I understand the acid free paper as it doesn't yellow, etc., but I'm unclear about the glue. Does Elmer's fit the bill? John From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Dec 2 20:35:50 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Dec 2 20:34:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <1FEB13F58F4040A69812D7689E345773@Notebook> References: <20081202181545.936E21CC44@io.frii.com> <4935FF36.90202@verizon.net> <1FEB13F58F4040A69812D7689E345773@Notebook> Message-ID: <49360CA6.4090206@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > I understand the acid free paper as it doesn't yellow, etc., but I'm > unclear about the glue. Does Elmer's fit the bill? As far as I've been told--I think it was by our list member Fossilnut (Gene), Elmer's is somewhat acidic. I use "Lineco Neutral pH Adhesive" (do a search, you'll find vendors for it). There are others. Again, this is serious stuff. Some readers might be thinking "what the ****." All the labeling, database management, use of archival materials, etc., requires a committment of time and some expense. However, some people are as enthusiastic about managing the collection as in acquiring it, taking a special pride in their curataorial skills. And as Kreigh said so well, much of the value of some specimens depends on the history behind them. I once heard a fellow at a micromounters conference compare unlabeled specimens with no locality to "children of uncertain parentage," which is a little harsh, but I got the point. Example: One of my dull, earthy, crumbly lumps is probably the ugliest specimen on earth. However, it is an old specimen of montmorillonite, from Montmorillon. That makes it quite worthwhile! However, no one would ever know that without the specimen number, and the catalog entry associated with it. Yours truly, Don From corson at infodyn.com Tue Dec 2 22:39:14 2008 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Tue Dec 2 22:40:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Holiday Sale - Everything 20% off until December18th! Message-ID: <92C97EB556C34DF9B9AFC25C795E4DED@Grimble> Follow collectors, I am pre-announcing this sale to members of this list, as is my usual custom, prior to commencing our Google ad campaign on Wednesday, December 3rd, at noon. Everything online is now on sale through December 18th. 20% off all mineral specimens, tools, display stands and bases. Some specimens are 33% off. You may view them at http://obgrocks.com I only have this sale once a year and there are some fine specimens to be had at great prices, so don't wait... Best Regards and Happy Holidays! Tom Corson ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors ________________________________ From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 3 07:30:05 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Dec 3 07:29:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <5FD3C716-C0CE-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <617055.44845.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kreigh, You bring up an interesting point.In my system, there's a catalog entry number, and a specimen number. A specimen with more than one species on it has multiple catalog entries (the unique field required by Access), all with the same specimen number. Each is assigned sequentially. There's also a field for "associates", so that if I have a specimen with, let's ay, pyrite, galena and sphalerite, there are 3 entry lines. The pyrite line shows galena and sphalerite as the associates, etc. That way they are cross-referenced. Jim Daly --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 4:07 PM John, If you had started numbering specimens when you started collecting they would roughly be in a time sequence. But the number is just a unique identifier to tie together the specimen, the label, and the catalog entry. If you have ten specimens of the same rock from the same trip you have ten numbers (some of them may turn out to have micro crystals of something unique). And it really doesn't matter what order you put them in. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Dec 3 07:50:44 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Dec 3 07:41:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><006601c95495$c9951220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <07A4A279F31C45F2AF8CB1CF6D689F14@Notebook> Message-ID: <002c01c9555e$e6c9a030$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Oh John, I should have explained "cleavage flash". I'll bet you were surprised and thought I was a bit bold. I had a good laugh over that one. Different minerals break along their crystallographic planes. When you are looking up a mineral in your mineral & rock guide such as Simon & Schuster's Guide to Rocks and Minerals look for the notation about the mineral's cleavage. Looking at Calcite's physical properties ...it reads ....perfect rhombohedral cleavage... looking at orthoclase it reads... perfect 90 degree cleavage. I'm really not sure if "cleavage flash" is used with any other minerals other than the Feldspars. The Feldspars really do this well. A Feldspar's cleaved plane will give you a good reflection of light as you turn the specimen in sunlight being that the Feldspars are vitreous on a non-weathered surfaces. This is not a crystal face but a cleaved surface where the mineral separates along its crystallographic structure. Now it would be interesting to find out if anyone else uses the term "cleavage flash"...for minerals that is! Still smiling.. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Darwin, CA Pyrite > Thanks Carolyn, > > But what is "Cleavage Flash"? When I Google it all I get is porn sites! :-) > > John > > From: "Carolyn Reynard" > >Yes, you must dig out your hardness points and HCL to narrow down the > > identification. Look for cleavage flash > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From smkell45 at aol.com Wed Dec 3 09:20:42 2008 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 3 09:20:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Location? Message-ID: <8CB23829AF88C56-A50-268@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Hi.I have a John H. Marshall Jr. pyromorphite with a Pout Shiel Vein, Leadhills, Scotland location. Anyone know in what mine this vein resides. Like to have a good label. Thanks smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Wed Dec 3 10:40:45 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:40:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] I D Numbers when cataloging In-Reply-To: <10603.16907.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081203184045.BF7B81CC47@io.frii.com> More good thoughts from JR and others. Carrying on a bit farther, admittedly on a philosophical tangent... > ...I have seen many schemes devised by scientists to embed data into > identification numbers. This is a misuse of the ID number, which > should only be a unique identifier. Yes, within an "identifiable namespace" which provides the context needed to interpret the identifier. This relates to the profound saying that, "There's no such thing as a context-free message." Still, lots of people, not just scientists, try to embed information in identifiers (also sometimes called "signatures") of various kinds. It seems to be human nature. Just look at all the lengthy, cryptic model and serial numbers on products out there. The problem is that this makes identifiers longer and harder to deal with, somewhat more rigid (the key-value incorrectness problem already stated), and opens the door to a quandary. Which bits of information are WORTH encoding in the identifier, and which are not? It depends on the usage context! And, what's the value of any encoding, if the reader doesn't know how to decode it? For example, vehicle identification numbers are long and unwieldy, but I guess the generation scheme is at least open-ended (it won't run out of "IP addresses" in any foreseeable future), and VINs do carry some info directly to people who know how to interpret them. But when you want to label a rock specimen as unobtrusively as possible, what meta-information is worth encoding in the identifier, that adds anything at all? Even "F" for fossil begs the question -- can't you usually tell that by inspection? I could imagine that "R" for radioactive, "T" for toxic, "L" for light-sensitive, etc, might be worth encoding. BUT, even THOSE bits need not strictly be part of the identifier. Rather, they can be optional additional on-site tags NOT bound to the identifier. Over all, what's important is to put some thought into the process, before you get serious and spend a lot of time on it. The world is full of ill-considered but nonetheless immutable standards. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Dec 3 10:50:18 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Dec 3 10:51:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] I D Numbers when cataloging References: <20081203184045.BF7B81CC47@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <435AB0B9E9BC43F6935333B248A1FF13@Notebook> Good points Alan. I haven't committed to anything quite yet. Thanks - John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 3 16:43:11 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 3 16:42:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Location? In-Reply-To: <8CB23829AF88C56-A50-268@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <87425A2F-C19C-11DD-A581-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> > I think you have a good label. If you look up Leadhills on MinDat you > will see that all the collecting localities are listed as Vein's or > Shaft's. MinDat just doesn't happen to have that Vein listed. Kreigh UK Scotland Strathclyde (Lanarkshire) South Lanarkshire Leadhills Mine Hill Browns Vein Dobbies Vein Glengonnar shaft (Brow and Browns Veins) Lammingtons Vein Wilsons Shaft (Brown's Vein) Risping Cleuch Risping Cleuch Vein Roan Burn Vein Short Cleuch Shortcleuch Vein Snar Water ]Gordon's Vein usanna Mine (Glennery Scar Vein; Susanna Vein (Scar Vein); Portobello Vein; Humby Vein; Lead Vein) Wanlock Dod Brow Vein Claystring Vein East Stayvoyage Vein George Roust Vein Hopeful Vein Katrine Vein Lady Anne Hopetoun shaft (Brow and Hopeful Veins) Scar Vein Stay the Voyage Vein West Stayvoyage Vein Wool Law Wool Gill Mine (Wool Gill Vein) On Wednesday, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:20 America/Detroit, smkell45@aol.com wrote: > Hi.I have a John H. Marshall Jr. pyromorphite with a Pout Shiel Vein, > Leadhills, Scotland location. Anyone know in what mine this vein > resides. Like to have a good label. Thanks smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 3 18:33:04 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 3 18:31:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <617055.44845.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, Interesting solution. Were the two numbers forced on you by your tool (i.e., Access), or by the design of your catalog? In my system the unique sequence number on the specimen and label is also the catalog entry number. The catalog entry has fields for Principal Mineral, Matrix, and Secondary Minerals. I have an index by Mineral/Rock name that points to the catalog. Using your example, my index would include entries for pyrite, galena, and sphalerite. I have a second index organized by classification (Elements, Oxides, Phosphates, Sorosilicates, etc) with mineral names under each class. In each index each mineral name has a pointer to each catalog entry containing the mineral (at least it is supposed to). I implemented my catalog as web pages. The pointers are html links. In my indexes the mineral names are also html links to the corresponding mineral page on MinDat. It has been very convenient being able to access my catalog from anywhere I can get on the internet, but it is time consuming to do right. I have a catalog entry for photos of the specimen that I usually leave blank (taking a picture, loading on to the computer, photoshopping it to a lower resolution, and uploading it to the website takes time). BTW, my pictures get file names made of the unique sequence number (prefixed by my initials, and an appended letter if more than one). I find myself skipping the index entries for common minerals like calcite (I can find them easily with Google if necessary, and then go back and fill them in). I may be nearing half done cataloging my collection (I started late, only about 10 years ago), but I've at least gotten into the habit of cataloging new specimens as I acquire them. I might have it done by the time I retire. The tool you use to implement your catalog makes a difference. Paper based systems have been traditional and work reasonably well (I've got over 750 specimens in an acquired collection I don't have online yet, but it is almost as easily accessed). Web or database both have advantages. What I'm trying to say is give some thought to how you want to use your catalog, and what information you want to capture. Figure out what will work for you. Think about the tool you will use. Making a good catalog is going to take a lot of time; having a catalog makes your collection significantly more valuable in both scientific and monetary terms. You want to do it right the first time. If you don't have a catalog, now is the time to start. Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 3, 2008, at 10:30 America/Detroit, Jim Daly wrote: > Kreigh, > You bring up an interesting point.In my system, there's a catalog > entry number, and a specimen number. A specimen with more than one > species on it has multiple catalog entries (the unique field required > by Access), all with the same specimen number. Each is assigned > sequentially. There's also a field for "associates", so that if I have > a specimen with, let's ay, pyrite, galena and sphalerite, there are 3 > entry lines. The pyrite line shows galena and sphalerite as the > associates, etc. That way they are cross-referenced. > Jim Daly > > --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 4:07 PM > > John, > > If you had started numbering specimens when you started collecting > they would > roughly be in a time sequence. But the number is just a unique > identifier to tie > together the specimen, the label, and the catalog entry. If you have > ten > specimens of the same rock from the same trip you have ten numbers > (some of them > may turn out to have micro crystals of something unique). And it really > doesn't matter what order you put them in. > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jcessna at nist.gov Thu Dec 4 14:27:20 2008 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Thu Dec 4 14:27:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Location? In-Reply-To: <8CB23829AF88C56-A50-268@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB23829AF88C56-A50-268@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20081204172015.0247e718@nist.gov> If anyone out there has the September 1973 issue of Rocks and Minerals there was an article by J.H. Marshall Jr. entitled "Mineral Collecting in Northern England and Scotland" on page 507. It may, or may not, provide more background for this individual. I don't have the issue. The yearly index came up during a quick google search I did at the first mention of this collector. Cheers, Jeff At 12:20 PM 12/3/2008, you wrote: >Hi.I have a John H. Marshall Jr. pyromorphite with a Pout Shiel >Vein, Leadhills, Scotland location. Anyone know in what mine this >vein resides. Like to have a good label. Thanks smkell From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 4 17:25:47 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 4 17:26:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <9F7BEC0C-C030-11DD-BE2D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><006601c95495$c9951220$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><07A4A279F31C45F2AF8CB1CF6D689F14@Notebook> <002c01c9555e$e6c9a030$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: CAVEAT: If you are easily offended, read no further. List owner (Julie) suggested that this post might be too racy for some. Well Carolyn, I finally dug out the hardness points and HCL and it looks you got it right with calcite. Hardness of less that 3 and it bubbled like a Jacuzzi at a cleavage flash party. Thanks all! - John Now that wasn't so bad was it? From: "Carolyn Reynard" > Oh John, > I should have explained "cleavage flash". I'll bet you were surprised and > thought I was a bit bold. I had a good laugh over that one. From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 18:08:00 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 18:07:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: Way to go, John, you got that pyrite dead to rights. Now, what about that silvery-looking mineral you said was with the pyrite. Do you think it's just galena, or something more erotic I mean exotic??? Pete In a message dated 12/4/2008 6:27:35 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: CAVEAT: If you are easily offended, read no further. List owner (Julie) suggested that this post might be too racy for some. Well Carolyn, I finally dug out the hardness points and HCL and it looks you got it right with calcite. Hardness of less that 3 and it bubbled like a Jacuzzi at a cleavage flash party. Thanks all! - John Now that wasn't so bad was it? From: "Carolyn Reynard" > Oh John, > I should have explained "cleavage flash". I'll bet you were surprised and > thought I was a bit bold. I had a good laugh over that one. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 18:20:52 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 18:20:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: (oops, sorry, folks, I meant to say calcite there... aside from any other errors) cheers, P. In a message dated 12/4/2008 7:08:33 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Pmodreski@aol.com writes: Way to go, John, you got that pyrite dead to rights. Now, what about that silvery-looking mineral you said was with the pyrite. Do you think it's just galena, or something more erotic I mean exotic??? Pete **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 4 18:22:43 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 4 18:23:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: Message-ID: <0B8FD1D1F79E49938573FDAB295DB616@Notebook> Thanks Pete, I'm voting for galena but I'm no expert. Mindat's list for that area is here:http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Way to go, John, you got that pyrite dead to rights. > > Now, what about that silvery-looking mineral you said was with the > pyrite. > Do you think it's just galena, or something more erotic I mean exotic??? > > Pete > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2008 6:27:35 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > CAVEAT: If you are easily offended, read no further. List owner (Julie) > suggested that this post might be too racy for some. > > Well Carolyn, > > I finally dug out the hardness points and HCL and it looks you got it > right > with calcite. Hardness of less that 3 and it bubbled like a Jacuzzi at a > cleavage flash party. > > Thanks all! - John > Now that wasn't so bad was it? > > From: "Carolyn Reynard" >> Oh John, >> I should have explained "cleavage flash". I'll bet you were surprised >> and >> thought I was a bit bold. I had a good laugh over that one. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 18:27:34 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 18:27:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: Not to get into THAT again, but galena displays good cleavage... In a message dated 12/4/2008 7:24:31 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: Thanks Pete, I'm voting for galena but I'm no expert. Mindat's list for that area is here:http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html John **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 4 18:59:21 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:00:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: Message-ID: <029CA36040214D14B5DFBF5E6D30DFA8@Notebook> Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my weenie Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Not to get into THAT again, but galena displays good cleavage... > In a message dated 12/4/2008 7:24:31 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > Thanks Pete, > > I'm voting for galena but I'm no expert. Mindat's list for that area is > here:http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html > > > John From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 19:05:05 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:04:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, not mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... : ) Pete In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my weenie Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. John **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 4 19:13:26 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:14:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: Message-ID: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, > not > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... > > : ) > > Pete > > > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my > weenie > > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. > > John > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 4 19:19:21 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:20:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> Message-ID: I told John that he owes you a nickel-alloy/nickel-based mineral...but I'm totally unfaniliar with any nickel alloys/minerals. Any faves? :P Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > >> John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, >> not >> mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... >> >> : ) >> >> Pete >> >> >> In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: >> >> Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my >> weenie >> >> Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it >> weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. >> >> John >> >> >> >> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 4 19:21:29 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:21:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Interesting Geology Class for Non-Science Majors Message-ID: I was Google searching something tonight and had an odd hit that turned out to be pretty interesting... http://www.indiana.edu/~geol116/ G-116 Our Planet and its Future An Introductory Geology Course Course for Non-science Majors Professor Jeremy Dunning dunning@indiana.edu Winner of the UCEA Distinguished Course Award* *Given each year to the best distance or technology-mediated course in the U.S. Winner of the 2006 Award for Innovative Excellence in Teaching, Learning, and Technology If you click on the Class Schedule link you will find links to each of the lectures in the class. My search hit took me to one of the lectures, and I went looking for the home page. This would be a great link to put on Club websites to promote public awareness of geology. Enjoy! Kreigh From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 19:23:56 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:23:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: Yes, otherwise I was going to suggest that you had a rare mineral sample from the core of a star. (I was going to say, "core of a white dwarf star", but I checked, those are even denser...) In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:15:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, > not > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... > > : ) > > Pete > > > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my > weenie > > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. > > John > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 19:25:17 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:24:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: iron meteorites : ) (those are iron-nickel alloy, you know) In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:21:10 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: I told John that he owes you a nickel-alloy/nickel-based mineral...but I'm totally unfaniliar with any nickel alloys/minerals. Any faves? :P Julie **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 4 19:48:31 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:48:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9585FCD4-C27F-11DD-9A15-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pentlandite On Thursday, Dec 4, 2008, at 22:19 America/Detroit, Julie Siebel wrote: > I told John that he owes you a nickel-alloy/nickel-based mineral...but > I'm totally unfaniliar with any nickel alloys/minerals. > > Any faves? :P > > Julie > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > >> Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 >> >> >>> John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in >>> cm, not >>> mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... >>> >>> : ) >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: >>> >>> Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with >>> my weenie >>> >>> Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x >>> 6mm it >>> weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >>> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- >>> dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Dec 4 19:51:05 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 4 19:50:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 Message-ID: maybe it's jeffersonite? In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:49:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Pentlandite On Thursday, Dec 4, 2008, at 22:19 America/Detroit, Julie Siebel wrote: > I told John that he owes you a nickel-alloy/nickel-based mineral...but > I'm totally unfaniliar with any nickel alloys/minerals. > > Any faves? :P > > Julie **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Thu Dec 4 20:04:57 2008 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Thu Dec 4 20:03:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Interesting Geology Class for Non-Science Majors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1304D4CBFE154B438A565B9C9981E490@WesLingerfelPC> Kreigh, That is a wonderful site! Thanks! Makes me wish I lived close to the University. The panorama view of Salt Lake is Awesome! regards, Wes Lingerfelt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] An Interesting Geology Class for Non-Science Majors >I was Google searching something tonight and had an odd hit that turned out >to be pretty interesting... > > http://www.indiana.edu/~geol116/ > > G-116 Our Planet and its Future > An Introductory Geology Course Course for Non-science Majors > Professor Jeremy Dunning dunning@indiana.edu > Winner of the UCEA Distinguished Course Award* > *Given each year to the best distance or technology-mediated > course in the U.S. > Winner of the 2006 Award for Innovative Excellence in > Teaching, Learning, and Technology > > If you click on the Class Schedule link you will find links to each of the > lectures in the class. My search hit took me to one of the lectures, and I > went looking for the home page. > > This would be a great link to put on Club websites to promote public > awareness of geology. > > Enjoy! > > Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 4 20:31:10 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 4 20:30:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8A8A9A90-C285-11DD-9A15-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> There are about 200 IMA accepted minerals that contain Nickel. Maybe we should get into some of the more interesting minerals like Annabergite [Ni3(AsO4)2?8H2O], Skutterudite [(Co,Fe,Ni)As2-3], or Hauchecornite [Ni9Bi(Sb,Bi)S8]. Metal ores are fun. Kreigh ? On Thursday, Dec 4, 2008, at 22:51 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > maybe it's jeffersonite? > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:49:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > Pentlandite > > > > > On Thursday, Dec 4, 2008, at 22:19 America/Detroit, Julie Siebel > wrote: > >> I told John that he owes you a nickel-alloy/nickel-based >> mineral...but >> I'm totally unfaniliar with any nickel alloys/minerals. >> >> Any faves? :P >> >> Julie > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Dec 5 11:17:13 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Dec 5 11:08:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> Message-ID: <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. Next, try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will give you a greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite will streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - 6 1/2, Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite because it is another hydrothermal mineral. I'll take my bubbly in a glass! Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, > > not > > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... > > > > : ) > > > > Pete > > > > > > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > > > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my > > weenie > > > > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm it > > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. > > > > John > > > > > > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 010) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 5 11:10:08 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Dec 5 11:13:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- NEW Galena/Chalcopyrite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <9C1199496B7C4BAA97E08700FB9188D6@LarryRush> I have added some Missouri Galena/Chalcopyrite to my site- Just in time for the Christmas Sale.......... www.ConnRoxMinerals.com Larry Rush From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Dec 5 11:18:32 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 5 11:18:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the underside of the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm talking about the tank cover, not the seat lid). Aloha, Kitty Carolyn Reynard wrote: > A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. > Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 11:26:16 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 5 11:26:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: You can buy a tile at Home Depot and use that too, the backside of it. BK On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 14:18, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the underside of > the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm talking about the > tank cover, not the seat lid). > > Aloha, Kitty > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > >> A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. >> Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 5 13:58:48 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:00:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> The fun thing about this for me has been that, several years ago I got the...MineralLabs I think?...pic set for hardness testing, that comes with a picks, a magnet, and a scratch plate. I had been lusting after that kit for a couple of years. About 2 weeks after I got it, someone that we rockhounded with whose opinion I sort of respected said "Nah, hardness of even various localities of quartz varies...you can't go by that". I was crestfallen because I'd been DYING to get that kit, and finally got it, and then figured it was worthless, so I just....ignored it after that. But now, John just dragged out all these rockhounding-trips-past, and he's actually been using the darn thing :D Yay! We were definitely aware of cleavage/hardness/scratch tests, but flashing cleavage - errr "cleavage flash" - has certainly brought up a lot of interesting discussions...I had no idea there were that many named nickel minerals ;-) J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. Next, > try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! > > A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. > Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will give you > a > greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite will > streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - 6 > 1/2, > Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite > because it is another hydrothermal mineral. > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > Carolyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > >> Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 >> >> >> > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, >> > not >> > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... >> > >> > : ) >> > >> > Pete >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >> > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: >> > >> > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my >> > weenie >> > >> > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm > it >> > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > >> > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and >> > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. >> > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 > 010) >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 5 14:36:37 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:38:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Streaking (WAS: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13) References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Carolyn wrote: >> try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! Boy, does that remind me of my college days! What a weird fad. I could tell stories but I don't know if I could stay on topic without getting too lewd. Anyway, the silver mineral in this specimen streaks brown (I had to double check with Julie as I am color blind). Hardness seems to be about 5ish. Rules out galena and arsenopyrite yes? Again, Mindat gives me these associated minerals. http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html Where to from here? - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. Next, > try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! > > A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. > Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will give you > a > greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite will > streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - 6 > 1/2, > Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite > because it is another hydrothermal mineral. > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > Carolyn .com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 5 14:45:11 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 5 14:46:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Kitty, Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points since our toilet is an outhouse. :-) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the underside of > the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm talking about the > tank cover, not the seat lid). > > Aloha, Kitty From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Dec 5 15:33:58 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 5 15:34:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <4939BA66.3000906@hawaiiantel.net> John Siebel wrote: Well, Bill and I were thinking about going to visit you next summer, but now I'm not so sure! ;-) Aloha, Kitty > Kitty, > > Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points > since our toilet is an outhouse. :-) > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite > RATED PG-13 > > >> Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the >> underside of the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm >> talking about the tank cover, not the seat lid). >> >> Aloha, Kitty > > From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 5 15:47:18 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 5 15:48:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> <4939BA66.3000906@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Awww....come visit! It's really not as awful as it sounds. lol I recently sent someone (a client company member) that I've worked with for five years a description of our off-grid life here - I was really surprised that she didn't understand how we lived, since I was pretty sure everyone else at her company did have a clue - lol. I wrote it all out and it SOUNDS really complex and a PIA, but as I said to John after I wrote it: "Ya know, it only sounds complex. Once you're doing it, it's just what you do." We'd love to have you. :) We'll get you your own private lug-a-loo for the apartment above the shop! J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > John Siebel wrote: > Well, Bill and I were thinking about going to visit you next summer, but > now I'm not so sure! ;-) > > Aloha, Kitty >> Kitty, >> >> Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points >> since our toilet is an outhouse. :-) >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED >> PG-13 >> >> >>> Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the underside >>> of the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm talking >>> about the tank cover, not the seat lid). >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 5 16:03:47 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 5 16:05:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> <4939BA66.3000906@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <962BA016CE7242B28CFB73F7E96FBA4A@Notebook> Ah Kitty, Aren't you guys old hippies? You should be used to roughing it!. The outhouse isn't so bad. Lime (on topic!) keeps it fresh as a daisy. Although I did get stung in the butt by a wasp the other day. Sucker snuck up my long johns while I was wasn't looking. JDS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > John Siebel wrote: > Well, Bill and I were thinking about going to visit you next summer, but > now I'm not so sure! ;-) > > Aloha, Kitty >> Kitty, >> >> Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points >> since our toilet is an outhouse. :-) >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED >> PG-13 >> >> >>> Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the underside >>> of the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic (I'm talking >>> about the tank cover, not the seat lid). >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at copper.net Fri Dec 5 16:57:15 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Dec 5 16:57:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 14:45:11 -0800, "John Siebel" wrote: >Kitty, > >Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points since >our toilet is an outhouse. :-) Take care of it, it's a valuable antique! Probably revealing my age, but I grew up using an outhouse. I had a laugh the other day when someone used the phrase "back door trots" and hadn't a clue as to where it came from. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 5 17:36:06 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 5 17:36:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Streaking (WAS: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4021E988-C336-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> John, You could go to the list of minerals at MinDat and look at each one until you found a match, or you could go to http://www.webmineral.com/determin/metallic_minerals_by_hardness.shtml and see if the hardness and streak identifies any minerals on your list of minerals from the locality. Kreigh On Friday, Dec 5, 2008, at 17:36 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > Carolyn wrote: >>> try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! > > Boy, does that remind me of my college days! What a weird fad. I could > tell stories but I don't know if I could stay on topic without getting > too lewd. > > Anyway, the silver mineral in this specimen streaks brown (I had to > double check with Julie as I am color blind). Hardness seems to be > about 5ish. Rules out galena and arsenopyrite yes? Again, Mindat gives > me these associated minerals. http://www.mindat.org/loc-3466.html > > Where to from here? - John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > >> Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. >> Next, >> try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! >> >> A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. >> Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will >> give you a >> greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite >> will >> streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - >> 6 1/2, >> Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite >> because it is another hydrothermal mineral. >> >> I'll take my bubbly in a glass! >> Carolyn > .com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 5 17:40:53 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 5 17:40:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Carolyn, That would be appropriate since today is the 75th anniversary of the end of Prohibition. Alcohol was no longer part of the 'underground' economy. Kreigh On Friday, Dec 5, 2008, at 14:17 America/Detroit, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > Carolyn From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 5 17:51:41 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 5 17:51:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource Message-ID: I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana Geological Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which Ohio Valley rockhounds - one on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and Tennessee. These include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will not be found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently 252 fossils are posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with plans to improve it. The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about 10% of the 1300 mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral species are alphabetized and currently are only those from Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois yet, nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you are not familiar with minerals from these two states, this web page will enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to illustrate as many of the mineral species documented from this area as possible. I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We certainly welcome comments and suggestions. Alan Goldstein Louisville, KY --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 5 19:22:00 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 5 19:21:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0B4F9C11-C345-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Nice job Alan! I'm in Michigan and will be looking for you to add more of your IL, IN, and OH minerals. I bookmarked the fossil page. I've got some IN fossils around here somewhere from a past trip that I would like to identify at a better level than brachiopod or clam. Thank you. Kreigh On Friday, Dec 5, 2008, at 20:51 America/Detroit, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana > Geological Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages > which Ohio Valley rockhounds - one on fossils, one on minerals. You > will easily find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. > > The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of > Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian and Mississippian fossil from Indiana > and Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and Tennessee. These > include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will > not be found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but > currently 252 fossils are posted. Some stratigraphic information is > provided, with plans to improve it. > > The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to > about 10% of the 1300 mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The > mineral species are alphabetized and currently are only those from > Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois > yet, nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. > However if you are not familiar with minerals from these two states, > this web page will enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to illustrate as > many of the mineral species documented from this area as possible. > > I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We > certainly welcome comments and suggestions. > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Dec 5 20:32:25 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 5 20:32:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lots of good info and pics. An excellent resource for fossil ID and general reference. I'll look at the mineral link when time permits. Thanks for sharing! Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> From: deepskyspy@insightbb.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; Paleolist@notkin.net> Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:51:41 -0500> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource> > I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana Geological Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which Ohio Valley rockhounds - one on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. > > The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and Tennessee. These include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will not be found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently 252 fossils are posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with plans to improve it. > > The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about 10% of the 1300 mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral species are alphabetized and currently are only those from Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois yet, nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you are not familiar with minerals from these two states, this web page will enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to illustrate as many of the mineral species documented from this area as possible.> > I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We certainly welcome comments and suggestions.> > Alan Goldstein> Louisville, KY> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 05:29:51 2008 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sat Dec 6 05:29:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation In-Reply-To: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <684487.66758.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One suggestion: contact John at JS Gems: http://www.jsgemslapidary.com/ and ask about both his "Hot Stuff" and Starbond. The latter was recommended to me for crack fill in agates and jaspers by a person who makes large-slab-display type specimens. My wife has been using both the hot stuff and starbond in a couple of different pieces of pet wood, agates, and jaspers all with fairly good luck. Both products are CA-based with different consistencies (hmm, wrong word but brain is stuck) for different levels of penetration. On the rock tumbling hobby forum (from http://www.rocktumblinghobby.com ) I also read somebody used two-part clear epoxy in an acetone bath to stabilize chrysocolla (glass jar, half filled with acetone, inject both tubes of epoxy, stir, place rock in jar, let sit for several days, take out of acetone and let it dry for several weeks). Good luck and please report back what you find works (or fails). Dean --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Neal Hazen wrote: > From: Neal Hazen > Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:39 AM > I have some Peruvian chrysocolla. As a 5 lb mass, it is > stable enough. However, it won't slab without crumbling. > I am looking for specific advice on methods of stabilizing > this material before I put it in the slab saw. I have washed > the rock in detergent, then soaked it in acetone to prepare > it. It's beautiful enough to be worth the cost of > cyanoacrylate, if that is the best way to go. I am seeking a > stabilizer that will give a minimum of 15mm penetration. The > folks who stabilize turquoise seem to have the procedure and > stabilizer locked down pretty well, but I have been unable > to find a discussion of their technique. I dislike > stabilizing any rock intended for making into cabochons, but > that is the only way this material will ever be anything > other than a paperweight. > > Neal Hazen > > "A government big enough to give you everything you > want, is big enough to take away everything you have." > > Thomas Jefferson > --------------- > 'In the first place, we should insist that if the > immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American > and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an > exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to > discriminate against any such man because of creed, or > birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the > person's becoming in every facet an American, and > nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance > here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else > also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one > flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language > here, and that is the English language... and we have room > for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the > American people.' > > Theodore Roosevelt 1907 > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 6 05:59:51 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 6 06:00:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Old LIME-quarries are often used to store wine or beer. Can't be far off topic Kreigh ;-))) (Hey, I'm back-;))) Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 december 2008 2:41 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > Carolyn, > > That would be appropriate since today is the 75th anniversary of the > end of Prohibition. Alcohol was no longer part of the 'underground' > economy. > > Kreigh > > On Friday, Dec 5, 2008, at 14:17 America/Detroit, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > > Carolyn > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 6 06:06:23 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 6 06:06:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91C405BCCAA04084B0EE562066BD4BAE@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Alan, I have a specimen from Wood County, Ohio. (I'm not sure that is in the Ohio river valley ;-) It's labelled "aragonite after celestine" but I'm not entirely sure that is correct. Anyway, it has a fierce fluorescence and phosphorescence under all kinds of UV. If you want a photo... just yell and I'll send you one. Cheersz Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 december 2008 2:52 > Aan: Rockhounds List; Paleolist > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Web resource > > I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana Geological > Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which Ohio Valley rockhounds - one > on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. > > The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian > and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and > Tennessee. These include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will not be > found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently 252 fossils are > posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with plans to improve it. > > The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about 10% of the 1300 > mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral species are alphabetized and currently > are only those from Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois yet, > nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you are not familiar > with minerals from these two states, this web page will enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to > illustrate as many of the mineral species documented from this area as possible. > > I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We certainly welcome > comments and suggestions. > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 06:37:38 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Dec 6 06:37:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource In-Reply-To: <91C405BCCAA04084B0EE562066BD4BAE@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <578396.23630.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Axel, Wood County, Ohio is not in the Ohio River valley. It's in the northwestern part of the state. This is the area noted for celestine, fluorite and strontianite. Just as an aside, I collected in a quarry near there not long ago (not in Wood Co., but the neighboring county, Ottawa) and got some specimens of fluorite and celestine. The fluorite is brown, and fluoresces white. The celestine is white, and fluoresces brown! Jim Daly --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Axel Emmermann wrote: From: Axel Emmermann Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Web resource To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 6:06 AM Hi Alan, I have a specimen from Wood County, Ohio. (I'm not sure that is in the Ohio river valley ;-) It's labelled "aragonite after celestine" but I'm not entirely sure that is correct. Anyway, it has a fierce fluorescence and phosphorescence under all kinds of UV. If you want a photo... just yell and I'll send you one. Cheersz Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 december 2008 2:52 > Aan: Rockhounds List; Paleolist > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Web resource > > I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana Geological > Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which Ohio Valley rockhounds - one > on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. > > The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian > and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and > Tennessee. These include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will not be > found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently 252 fossils are > posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with plans to improve it. > > The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about 10% of the 1300 > mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral species are alphabetized and currently > are only those from Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois yet, > nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you are not familiar > with minerals from these two states, this web page will enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to > illustrate as many of the mineral species documented from this area as possible. > > I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We certainly welcome > comments and suggestions. > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 06:58:28 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Dec 6 06:58:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <242385.43779.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kreigh, Yes, it was forced by the software- as far as I know, any table in any relational database has to have a unique field. Just pure serendipity that I could use it that way. Jim --- On Wed, 12/3/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) To: sauktown1@yahoo.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:33 PM Jim, Interesting solution. Were the two numbers forced on you by your tool (i.e., Access), or by the design of your catalog? In my system the unique sequence number on the specimen and label is also the catalog entry number. The catalog entry has fields for Principal Mineral, Matrix, and Secondary Minerals. I have an index by Mineral/Rock name that points to the catalog. Using your example, my index would include entries for pyrite, galena, and sphalerite. I have a second index organized by classification (Elements, Oxides, Phosphates, Sorosilicates, etc) with mineral names under each class. In each index each mineral name has a pointer to each catalog entry containing the mineral (at least it is supposed to). I implemented my catalog as web pages. The pointers are html links. In my indexes the mineral names are also html links to the corresponding mineral page on MinDat. It has been very convenient being able to access my catalog from anywhere I can get on the internet, but it is time consuming to do right. I have a catalog entry for photos of the specimen that I usually leave blank (taking a picture, loading on to the computer, photoshopping it to a lower resolution, and uploading it to the website takes time). BTW, my pictures get file names made of the unique sequence number (prefixed by my initials, and an appended letter if more than one). I find myself skipping the index entries for common minerals like calcite (I can find them easily with Google if necessary, and then go back and fill them in). --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Dec 6 07:28:52 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Dec 6 07:28:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource References: <0B4F9C11-C345-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, You can always e-mail pictures of those fossils to me directly and I can ID them. I have been doing that for people (usually walk-ins) since 1985. Photos taken with cell-phone cameras are the most difficult because they are often out of focus. I need general locality and stratigraphic data. My forte is Midwest Paleozoic faunas, especially in Ordovician through Mississippian periods. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web resource > Nice job Alan! > > I'm in Michigan and will be looking for you to add more of your IL, IN, > and OH minerals. > > I bookmarked the fossil page. I've got some IN fossils around here > somewhere from a past trip that I would like to identify at a better level > than brachiopod or clam. > > Thank you. > > Kreigh > > > > On Friday, Dec 5, 2008, at 20:51 America/Detroit, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana >> Geological Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which >> Ohio Valley rockhounds - one on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily >> find the page links at www.kyanageo.org/. >> >> The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of >> Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and >> Kentucky primarily, with a few from Ohio and Tennessee. These include >> common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the species will not be found >> on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently 252 >> fossils are posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with >> plans to improve it. >> >> The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about >> 10% of the 1300 mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral >> species are alphabetized and currently are only those from Indiana and >> Kentucky. I have not posted any from southern Illinois yet, nor from >> every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you are not >> familiar with minerals from these two states, this web page will >> enlighten you. My ultimate goal is to illustrate as many of the mineral >> species documented from this area as possible. >> >> I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We >> certainly welcome comments and suggestions. >> >> Alan Goldstein >> Louisville, KY >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Dec 6 07:28:54 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Dec 6 07:30:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation In-Reply-To: <684487.66758.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <684487.66758.qm@web51110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a501c957b7$595da1f0$0c18e5d0$@com> Visit the Starbond website; their cyanoacrylates are consistently excellent when purchased directly from them. The same cannot be said for Hot Stuff. Again, serious sphere makers use Starbond exclusively, and it comes in many different viscosities and sizes. They have largely dropped Hot Stuff for a number of reasons, old or stale batches being the primary reason. Stale cyanoacrylates set up in their containers and are worthless after a few months (i.e., the ten cent tubes of Krazy Glue at Wally's). Eventually even the quality adhesives like Starbond and Paleobond deteriorate to the point of being unusable. You can lengthen their useful life by storing them in the fridge. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dean Welder Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:30 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation One suggestion: contact John at JS Gems: http://www.jsgemslapidary.com/ and ask about both his "Hot Stuff" and Starbond. The latter was recommended to me for crack fill in agates and jaspers by a person who makes large-slab-display type specimens. My wife has been using both the hot stuff and starbond in a couple of different pieces of pet wood, agates, and jaspers all with fairly good luck. Both products are CA-based with different consistencies (hmm, wrong word but brain is stuck) for different levels of penetration. On the rock tumbling hobby forum (from http://www.rocktumblinghobby.com ) I also read somebody used two-part clear epoxy in an acetone bath to stabilize chrysocolla (glass jar, half filled with acetone, inject both tubes of epoxy, stir, place rock in jar, let sit for several days, take out of acetone and let it dry for several weeks). Good luck and please report back what you find works (or fails). Dean --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Neal Hazen wrote: > From: Neal Hazen > Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:39 AM > I have some Peruvian chrysocolla. As a 5 lb mass, it is > stable enough. However, it won't slab without crumbling. > I am looking for specific advice on methods of stabilizing > this material before I put it in the slab saw. I have washed > the rock in detergent, then soaked it in acetone to prepare > it. It's beautiful enough to be worth the cost of > cyanoacrylate, if that is the best way to go. I am seeking a > stabilizer that will give a minimum of 15mm penetration. The > folks who stabilize turquoise seem to have the procedure and > stabilizer locked down pretty well, but I have been unable > to find a discussion of their technique. I dislike > stabilizing any rock intended for making into cabochons, but > that is the only way this material will ever be anything > other than a paperweight. > > Neal Hazen > > "A government big enough to give you everything you > want, is big enough to take away everything you have." > > Thomas Jefferson > --------------- > 'In the first place, we should insist that if the > immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American > and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an > exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to > discriminate against any such man because of creed, or > birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the > person's becoming in every facet an American, and > nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance > here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else > also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one > flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language > here, and that is the English language... and we have room > for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the > American people.' > > Theodore Roosevelt 1907 > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 6 08:06:13 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 6 08:06:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web resource In-Reply-To: <578396.23630.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <91C405BCCAA04084B0EE562066BD4BAE@AXELDESKTOP> <578396.23630.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2BFF279391C44A45A0D149FB82E02615@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Jim, My specimen is white with a dull surface. Underneath the dull coating there's grey-blue clear crystalline material that may very well be celestine. The celestine is non-fluorescent but the pseudomorph coating fluoresces yellowish white in MW and SW and blueish white in longwave UV. It has a strong yellow-green phosphorescence, again; only the coating. Cheers BTW: I'll have to make the photo again as it came out way to blue. Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Jim Daly > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 december 2008 15:38 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Web resource > > Axel, > Wood County, Ohio is not in the Ohio River valley. It's in the northwestern part of the state. > This is the area noted for celestine, fluorite and strontianite. > Just as an aside, I collected in a quarry near there not long ago (not in Wood Co., but the > neighboring county, Ottawa) and got some specimens of fluorite and celestine. The fluorite is > brown, and fluoresces white. The celestine is white, and fluoresces brown! > Jim Daly > > --- On Sat, 12/6/08, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > From: Axel Emmermann > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Web resource > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 6:06 AM > > Hi Alan, > > I have a specimen from Wood County, Ohio. (I'm not sure that is in the Ohio > river valley ;-) > It's labelled "aragonite after celestine" but I'm not > entirely sure that is > correct. > Anyway, it has a fierce fluorescence and phosphorescence under all kinds of > UV. > If you want a photo... just yell and I'll send you one. > > Cheersz > > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website: > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens Alan Goldstein > > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 december 2008 2:52 > > Aan: Rockhounds List; Paleolist > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Web resource > > > > I have been working with Michael Popp, the new webmaster for the Kyana > Geological > > Society's on-line presence. We have added two new pages which Ohio > Valley > rockhounds - one > > on fossils, one on minerals. You will easily find the page links at > www.kyanageo.org/. > > > > The fossil page consists of information and links to photos of Ordovician, > Silurian, Devonian > > and Mississippian fossil from Indiana and Kentucky primarily, with a few > from Ohio and > > Tennessee. These include common and rare fossils. I am sure some of the > species will not be > > found on any other website. The web page is not complete, but currently > 252 fossils are > > posted. Some stratigraphic information is provided, with plans to improve > it. > > > > The mineral page consists of basic mineral information and links to about > 10% of the 1300 > > mineral photos I have posted on mindat. The mineral species are > alphabetized and currently > > are only those from Indiana and Kentucky. I have not posted any from > southern Illinois yet, > > nor from every IN-KY locality where I have uploaded images. However if you > are not familiar > > with minerals from these two states, this web page will enlighten you. My > ultimate goal is to > > illustrate as many of the mineral species documented from this area as > possible. > > > > I hope you look over the web pages and enjoy what we have done! We > certainly welcome > > comments and suggestions. > > > > Alan Goldstein > > Louisville, KY > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sat Dec 6 09:07:16 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sat Dec 6 08:58:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> Message-ID: <002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hello Julie, The MineralLabs hardness kit is an excellent kit. Very too bad your rockhound friend discounted it. It is true there are differences in hardness's of some minerals. The best example I know of is the mineral Kyanite that has two hardness's, it is 4 1/2 length wise and a 7 cross the crystal. There can be sight differences depending on the crystal face or cleavage surface. Also one might be fooled by a weathered surface. As you say, the minerallab kit includes hardness picks 2-9, a magnet, streak plate and glass plate. Usually my first step is checking the magnetic property of an unknown mineral if it is heavy, dark and metallic or sub-metallic. Then checking the hardness helps narrow the field. I have a very good microscope and I can see the faintest of cuts. Once I have the hardness I check a mineral guide that pictures minerals by hardness. Narrowing it down, I check the other physical properties, color, color of powder (streak), crystal system if any can be seen, reaction to HCL, cleavage, fracture and tenacity, if I have enough of a specimen to experiment with. I have managed to find mineral guides that organize minerals by their properties. Over time you will find this process narrows as you lean more about minerals. You will begin to know where to start your investigation. So have a great time identifying and using your kit. If I had only one purchased tool I would choose the best microscope affordable and then some! Carolyn Reynard Poughkeepsie, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > The fun thing about this for me has been that, several years ago I got > the...MineralLabs I think?...pic set for hardness testing, that comes with a > picks, a magnet, and a scratch plate. I had been lusting after that kit for > a couple of years. About 2 weeks after I got it, someone that we rockhounded > with whose opinion I sort of respected said "Nah, hardness of even various > localities of quartz varies...you can't go by that". I was crestfallen > because I'd been DYING to get that kit, and finally got it, and then figured > it was worthless, so I just....ignored it after that. > > But now, John just dragged out all these rockhounding-trips-past, and he's > actually been using the darn thing :D Yay! > > We were definitely aware of cleavage/hardness/scratch tests, but flashing > cleavage - errr "cleavage flash" - has certainly brought up a lot of > interesting discussions...I had no idea there were that many named nickel > minerals ;-) > > J. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Reynard" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. Next, > > try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! > > > > A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. > > Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will give you > > a > > greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite will > > streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - 6 > > 1/2, > > Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite > > because it is another hydrothermal mineral. > > > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > > Carolyn > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Siebel" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > > >> Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... > >> > >> John > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > >> > >> > >> > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in cm, > >> > not > >> > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... > >> > > >> > : ) > >> > > >> > Pete > >> > > >> > > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > >> > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > >> > > >> > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with my > >> > weenie > >> > > >> > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x 6mm > > it > >> > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. > >> > > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > >> > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > >> > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 > > 010) > >> > > >> > > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> > multipart/alternative > >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> > text/html > >> > --- > >> > -- > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> > Subscription Services: > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jbf at jbfminerals.com Sat Dec 6 09:39:23 2008 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeffrey Fast) Date: Sat Dec 6 09:40:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: inexpensive but nice green tourmalines from Gillette Quarry, East Haddam, CT, USA In-Reply-To: <2BFF279391C44A45A0D149FB82E02615@AXELDESKTOP> References: <91C405BCCAA04084B0EE562066BD4BAE@AXELDESKTOP> <578396.23630.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2BFF279391C44A45A0D149FB82E02615@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <000001c957c9$94364f40$bca2edc0$@com> Thanks for looking! http://www.JBFminerals.com/php/gallery.php Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Dec 6 13:50:13 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Dec 6 13:50:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Numbering Specimens (WAS: Paint) In-Reply-To: <242385.43779.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <242385.43779.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <493AF395.1010101@verizon.net> Jim Daly wrote: > Kreigh, > Yes, it was forced by the software- as far as I know, any table in any relational database has to have a unique field. Just pure serendipity that I could use it that way. > Jim > Hi Jim, I'm not sure how you set it up, but it need not be that way. The specimen number is the only thing that needs to be unique. The other tables are linked by using the specimen number as a unique key. When they are joined, the data is presented as part of the same application. Best, Don From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sat Dec 6 14:13:12 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sat Dec 6 14:04:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> <002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Correction: one leans when toting rocks, learns by studying them!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > Hello Julie, > The MineralLabs hardness kit is an excellent kit. Very too bad your > rockhound friend discounted it. It is true there are differences in > hardness's of some minerals. The best example I know of is the mineral > Kyanite that has two hardness's, it is 4 1/2 length wise and a 7 cross the > crystal. There can be sight differences depending on the crystal face or > cleavage surface. Also one might be fooled by a weathered surface. > > As you say, the minerallab kit includes hardness picks 2-9, a magnet, streak > plate and glass plate. Usually my first step is checking the magnetic > property of an unknown mineral if it is heavy, dark and metallic or > sub-metallic. Then checking the hardness helps narrow the field. I have a > very good microscope and I can see the faintest of cuts. Once I have the > hardness I check a mineral guide that pictures minerals by hardness. > Narrowing it down, I check the other physical properties, color, color of > powder (streak), crystal system if any can be seen, reaction to HCL, > cleavage, fracture and tenacity, if I have enough of a specimen to > experiment with. I have managed to find mineral guides that organize > minerals by their properties. Over time you will find this process narrows > as you lean more about minerals. You will begin to know where to start your > investigation. > > So have a great time identifying and using your kit. If I had only one > purchased tool I would choose the best microscope affordable and then some! > > Carolyn Reynard > Poughkeepsie, NY > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > The fun thing about this for me has been that, several years ago I got > > the...MineralLabs I think?...pic set for hardness testing, that comes with > a > > picks, a magnet, and a scratch plate. I had been lusting after that kit > for > > a couple of years. About 2 weeks after I got it, someone that we > rockhounded > > with whose opinion I sort of respected said "Nah, hardness of even various > > localities of quartz varies...you can't go by that". I was crestfallen > > because I'd been DYING to get that kit, and finally got it, and then > figured > > it was worthless, so I just....ignored it after that. > > > > But now, John just dragged out all these rockhounding-trips-past, and he's > > actually been using the darn thing :D Yay! > > > > We were definitely aware of cleavage/hardness/scratch tests, but flashing > > cleavage - errr "cleavage flash" - has certainly brought up a lot of > > interesting discussions...I had no idea there were that many named nickel > > minerals ;-) > > > > J. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carolyn Reynard" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > > > > Hi John, Not bad at all! We are having a bit of fun with this one. > Next, > > > try identifying your metallic mineral by a little streaking!!! > > > > > > A streak test will give you the color of the mineral in powdered form. > > > Firmly rub the mineral on an unglazed piece of tile. Pyrite will give > you > > > a > > > greenish-black color, Galena will give you a dark gray, Arsenopyrite > will > > > streak black. Also there is a difference in hardness, Pyrite is 6 - 6 > > > 1/2, > > > Galena a 2 1/2 -3 Arsenopyrite a 5 1/2 -6. I have added Arsenopyrite > > > because it is another hydrothermal mineral. > > > > > > I'll take my bubbly in a glass! > > > Carolyn > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Siebel" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > > > > > > > >> Oopie! Yup, your right. It's your nickel. Now, back to galena... > > >> > > >> John > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: > > >> To: > > >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:05 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 > > >> > > >> > > >> > John, I'll betcha a nickel those measurements you just gave are in > cm, > > >> > not > > >> > mm??? If it weighs 1.75 lbs.... > > >> > > > >> > : ) > > >> > > > >> > Pete > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > In a message dated 12/4/2008 8:00:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > >> > john@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > > >> > > > >> > Man am I biting my tongue! I can't make out crystal structure with > my > > >> > weenie > > >> > > > >> > Optivisor (tm). But it is predominantly pyrite and at 11mm x 6mm x > 6mm > > > it > > >> > weighs nearly 1.75 pounds if that helps any. > > >> > > > >> > John > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > > >> > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > >> > > > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000 > > > 010) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >> > multipart/alternative > > >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > >> > text/html > > >> > --- > > >> > -- > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> > Subscription Services: > > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Dec 6 15:56:55 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Dec 6 15:58:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking prismatic perhaps? John From everbeek at ptd.net Sat Dec 6 17:14:31 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Sat Dec 6 17:14:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Ohhhhh that's good, that's verrrry good......on several levels. What beer do you drink? Kudos! Earl On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 15:56:55 -0800, wrote: > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of > many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm > thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Dec 6 19:54:26 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Dec 6 19:54:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another fireball this one in Colorado Message-ID: Film clip in the link: < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/06/exploding-colorado-fireball-100-times-brighter-than-the-moon-video/ > BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Dec 6 20:22:36 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Dec 6 20:22:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> <002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other minerals from the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, has anyone else heard of this location? Alan G. From jpjunk at mc.net Sat Dec 6 20:37:15 2008 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Sat Dec 6 20:37:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? In-Reply-To: <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> <002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> Message-ID: <5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net> Googling "Wilberforce Ontario mines molybdenite White elephant" came up with > Location Index - W > White Elephant Mine, Vernon, Vernon Mining Division, British > Columbia, Canada ...... Wilberforce Molybdenite Mine, Wilberforce, > Monmouth Township, ... > www.mindat.org/locindex-W0.html - I have a vague recollection of collecting molybdenite on a trip15+ years ago sponsored by the Bancroft Chamber of Commerce, which might be able to provide more info. John On Dec 6, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other > minerals from > the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the > Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, > has > anyone else heard of this location? > > Alan G. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 6 21:47:19 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 6 21:47:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? In-Reply-To: <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> Message-ID: <829CDB27-C422-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> http://www.mindat.org/loc-19847.html On Saturday, Dec 6, 2008, at 23:22 America/Detroit, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other minerals > from > the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the > Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, has > anyone else heard of this location? > > Alan G. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 6 21:58:00 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 6 21:57:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? In-Reply-To: <829CDB27-C422-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <011CB23D-C424-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> http://www.mindat.org/loc-21694.html On Sunday, Dec 7, 2008, at 00:47 America/Detroit, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > http://www.mindat.org/loc-19847.html > > > > On Saturday, Dec 6, 2008, at 23:22 America/Detroit, Alan Goldstein > wrote: > >> I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other minerals >> from >> the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the >> Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, >> has >> anyone else heard of this location? >> >> Alan G. >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From billtompkinscccc at comcast.net Sat Dec 6 22:07:10 2008 From: billtompkinscccc at comcast.net (billtompkinscccc@comcast.net) Date: Sat Dec 6 22:07:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite Message-ID: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> John- I can't help myself. You must be drinking "Light" beer. :) Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at Coffin Butte. How big was it? We stood two people in the pocket for a photo because we felt no one would believe it wasn't just another fishing story. The vug was about 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and 3 feet deep, lined with inch long stilbites and 2 inch calcite cubes about every 6 inches. It was blinding in the sunlight. The next weekend, the entire area was gone, crushed into gravel by the owner. They've since filled the entire mountainside with garbage, covered it with thick plastic, and now convert the methane gas to electricity. Too bad they did it so fast, there were areas with 2 inch tall apophyllites, inch long stilbites in plates 6 inches across, half inch analcimes, calcites by the dozens....... ah, yes, I miss that place. Bill Tompkins -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Siebel" > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Dec 7 04:37:53 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sun Dec 7 04:39:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> References: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <011201c95868$9fdbb930$df932b90$@com> The current quarry to the west of the landfill area produces similar, if not nearly as spectacular, specimens. The owner had been very accommodating in the past, once he even called when they were about to shoot the quarry (I had done some consulting for him though). When we arrived he had the workers spread the specimens they had saved on a tarp for our picking pleasure :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of billtompkinscccc@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 10:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Calcite John- I can't help myself. You must be drinking "Light" beer. :) Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at Coffin Butte. How big was it? We stood two people in the pocket for a photo because we felt no one would believe it wasn't just another fishing story. The vug was about 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and 3 feet deep, lined with inch long stilbites and 2 inch calcite cubes about every 6 inches. It was blinding in the sunlight. The next weekend, the entire area was gone, crushed into gravel by the owner. They've since filled the entire mountainside with garbage, covered it with thick plastic, and now convert the methane gas to electricity. Too bad they did it so fast, there were areas with 2 inch tall apophyllites, inch long stilbites in plates 6 inches across, half inch analcimes, calcites by the dozens....... ah, yes, I miss that place. Bill Tompkins -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Siebel" > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 7 05:25:13 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 7 05:25:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <254E6842231B414499973E8F1CB16D5F@AXELDESKTOP> > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking > prismatic perhaps? That's downright iridescenticulus. Put the eggnog back in the bar, John. Still weeks to go before Christmas ;-))) Cheers PS: that's what you get for getting me back on line (ROFLMAO) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2008 0:57 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Calcite > > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 7 08:02:07 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 7 08:02:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages Message-ID: Hello people, After having a technical issue resolved by the admin team in a very professional way (my e-ternal gratitude for lifting me out of the depths of e-solation) I'm back. Some of you may have wondered why on earth I did not respond to the "cleavage flash" issue. Well, I didn't get it but I got some mail indicating that it would be worth taking a look at the archives of the messages of around 12/1. There it was: CAVEAT: If you are easily offended, read no further. List owner (Julie) suggested that this post might be too racy for some. Well Carolyn, I finally dug out the hardness points and HCL and it looks you got it right with calcite. Hardness of less that 3 and it bubbled like a Jacuzzi at a cleavage flash party. Thanks all! - John Now that wasn't so bad was it? From: "Carolyn Reynard" < sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com> > Oh John, > I should have explained "cleavage flash". I'll bet you were surprised and > thought I was a bit bold. I had a good laugh over that one. Indeed. Carolyn: RESPECT. Never before in the 56 years that I'm around have I witnessed an innocent slip of the keyboard of such proportion. John: Use Google Scholar next time. It will probably come up with the mineral andersonite (Yes, like in Pamela Anderson who is a renown cleavage flasher.) Julie: I was rather "titillated" than offended (pardon my choice of words) All that said, there's more to it. When one cleave a mineral, one actually may produce a visible flash known as triboluminescence. Quite a few minerals appear to have this quality. Sphalerite, clinohedrite and diamond to name a few. Most people think that the sparks that you see when scratching such minerals (or breaking them) are particle that burn up in the air. They are in fact the binding energy between the crystal planes that is relaxing after tearing them apart (by the millions with one pin-stroke). Then there's fractoluminescence. In my opinion it was just another word for triboluminescence but since it seems to apply for some kinds of glass (which is non-crystalline) I needed to adjust my opinion. Breaking the quite solid bonds between Si and O results in flashes of light with energies of 1.9 to 2.7 eV. This is equivalent to 652.5 nm (red) to 459.2 nm (blue) light. Kreigh These Si-O bonds are quite strong. If the bonds in adhesive tape glue were equally strong you would need dozens of horse-powers or more to peel of an inch. Still that would only result in visible light, not even soft UV. So indirectly, this cleavage flash redirects us to what you wrote on 10/24: "Peeling tape is breaking a lot of bonds. That energy has to go somewhere. There is no need to invoke vacuum quantum fluctuations." No way that you can get X-rays from breaking bonds. any bonds. I have some possibles for this phenomenon. Maybe good for a new thread? Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society < http://www.uvminerals.org/> ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society < http://www.minerant.org/index.html> Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website:< http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Dec 7 08:26:55 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 7 08:27:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite Message-ID: That's an awesome description of that pocket, Bill. Do you know if anyone has a copy of that picture, posted online or ever published anywhere? I just searched on mindat and, interestingly, no one has posted any calcite or stilbite images there; the only pictures (4) posted there for Coffin Butte are analcime and apophyllite. P.S., I did quite understand what was funny (?) about prismatic calcite; sounds fine to me. High cirrus clouds that show rainbow colors near the sun are commonly called "prismatic clouds" in meteorology. (of course, prismatic referred to a mineral would be confused with meaning a prism-shaped crystal habit; parallel-elongated faces, which is something that calcite can form.) cheers, Pete In a message dated 12/6/2008 11:07:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, billtompkinscccc@comcast.net writes: John- I can't help myself. You must be drinking "Light" beer. :) Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at Coffin Butte. How big was it? We stood two people in the pocket for a photo because we felt no one would believe it wasn't just another fishing story. The vug was about 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and 3 feet deep, lined with inch long stilbites and 2 inch calcite cubes about every 6 inches. It was blinding in the sunlight. The next weekend, the entire area was gone, crushed into gravel by the owner. They've since filled the entire mountainside with garbage, covered it with thick plastic, and now convert the methane gas to electricity. Too bad they did it so fast, there were areas with 2 inch tall apophyllites, inch long stilbites in plates 6 inches across, half inch analcimes, calcites by the dozens....... ah, yes, I miss that place. Bill Tompkins -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Siebel" > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Dec 7 09:22:49 2008 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Dec 7 09:22:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] borax Christmas ornaments... Message-ID: <493C0669.50800@ptd.net> use the following link to make your own "mineral" Christmas ornaments... haven'et tried it.. and if your cats like to climb the tree, and if there are very young kidlets... well maybe not... http://www.pallensmith.com/index.php?id=100 From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Dec 7 11:51:48 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Dec 7 11:53:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite References: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2E171F5AEC784830BD37FBF9B5D044C6@Notebook> Bill Tomkins Wrote: >> Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at >> Coffin Butte. Hi Bill! I'm glad this post brought you out of lurking mode! :-) Julie and I visited Coffin Butte with Gladwell in the early spring of 2003. We didn't find anything as spectacular as the vug you describe. But we did find some mighty nice stuff including some calcites up to 2" on plates of apophyllite, stilbite and/or quartz. As I remember we were on the north side of the quarry, but then I may have my directions skewed. It remains one of the coolest sites I've been to. For those interested, you can read more about Coffin Butte (as well as many other sites) on Bill's web site http://members.tripod.com/~WTompkins/index-14.html Earl Wrote: >Ohhhhh that's good, that's verrrry good......on several levels. I'm missing my own joke here Earl! I know I can be rather thick at times. Care to explain? Pete Wrote: >I did quite understand what was funny (?) about prismatic calcite; sounds fine to me. Thanks Pete. Prismatic it is. Thanks to all - John From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Dec 7 12:43:03 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Dec 7 12:43:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana> <002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> <5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net> Message-ID: I found both of those, too. However the label that came with the specimen clearly states White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It doesn't say Wilberforce Molybdenum mine. Considering all the prospect pits up in that area, I wonder if it is a small private claim? The specimen was obtained in 1991, so it could have been collected a few years prior. I have no record of the dealer at the Bedford Show.. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > Googling "Wilberforce Ontario mines molybdenite White elephant" came up > with >> Location Index - W >> White Elephant Mine, Vernon, Vernon Mining Division, British Columbia, >> Canada ...... Wilberforce Molybdenite Mine, Wilberforce, Monmouth >> Township, ... >> www.mindat.org/locindex-W0.html - > I have a vague recollection of collecting molybdenite on a trip15+ years > ago sponsored by the Bancroft Chamber of Commerce, which might be able to > provide more info. > > John > > > On Dec 6, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other minerals >> from >> the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the >> Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, has >> anyone else heard of this location? >> >> Alan G. >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Sun Dec 7 12:49:16 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Sun Dec 7 12:49:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: <2E171F5AEC784830BD37FBF9B5D044C6@Notebook> References: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <2E171F5AEC784830BD37FBF9B5D044C6@Notebook> Message-ID: <42bb933a646c7a6201baf62f49829494@ptd.net> > > Earl Wrote: >>Ohhhhh that's good, that's verrrry good......on several levels. > > I'm missing my own joke here Earl! I know I can be rather thick at times. > Care to explain? > Ohhh, sorry -- I didn't see this e-mail message until it came through again, embedded in another, just now on Sunday afternoon. But lessee here, if I remember correctly you mentioned something about a calcite crystal that showed a rainbow inside if you oriented it correctly, and then said something about prismatic calcite -- so I thought you were alluding to the calcite crystal acting like a prism to disperse light into a spectrum. I appreciated the subltety of that joke, the "prismatic" referring not to the crystal habit but to its optical properties. Intended or not, that was really good, I thought. Keep 'em coming! Cheers- Earl From billtompkinscccc at comcast.net Sun Dec 7 13:05:24 2008 From: billtompkinscccc at comcast.net (billtompkinscccc@comcast.net) Date: Sun Dec 7 13:05:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite Message-ID: <120720082105.10893.493C3A94000393E700002A8D22007601800C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> The photos Jon took were with a video camera. The photos I took were with a very early digital camera (Kodak 1 megapixel) and they are stored on Macintosh formatted floppy disks. Does that tell you about how many years ago it happened? I still have an old MAC G3 with a floppy disk drive around here somewhere, I'll see if I can fire it up. Things were different back then. Like Tim said, we just showed up at the office and signed in and were allowed in a couple days a year. The people in the vug in the photo were secretaries from the office who didn't believe us until they saw it for themselves. (they had to put on sunglasses) Apophyllite is very shiny in direct sun. I have a sequence of 3 or 4 photos showing Jon directing a trackhoe operator on where to knock down a ledge for us. They used to be that helpful. Now, we can't get past the gate. New owner, lawyers, insurance.........etc......... In the old D.O.T. quarry on the east side was where Lloyd Staples found and wrote about cyclic twins of analcime in sheroidal clusters. I have that article around here somewhere, too. Fascinating reading. I've found 4 there myself and gave one to Rudy Tschernich. The old quarry is now a bird viewing site and people are actually welcome there. I found 2 plates of analcime 10 inches across in the blackberries. It's amazing to me how some places go full circle and some just close. About 10 years ago I was escorted out of the old quarry by Benton county's finest. In retrospect, I earned it. I parked right next to the No Parking sign, walked right past the No Trespassing sign and was actively stealing State of Oregon rocks when the fat donut boy caught me. Now, folks are invited in to see the migrating ducks and geese. Oh well. Can't wait for Price Creek to open up again. Bill Tompkins -------------- Original message -------------- From: Pmodreski@aol.com > That's an awesome description of that pocket, Bill. Do you know if anyone > has a copy of that picture, posted online or ever published anywhere? > > I just searched on mindat and, interestingly, no one has posted any calcite > or stilbite images there; the only pictures (4) posted there for Coffin Butte > are analcime and apophyllite. > > P.S., I did quite understand what was funny (?) about prismatic calcite; > sounds fine to me. High cirrus clouds that show rainbow colors near the sun > are > commonly called "prismatic clouds" in meteorology. > > (of course, prismatic referred to a mineral would be confused with meaning a > prism-shaped crystal habit; parallel-elongated faces, which is something that > calcite can form.) > > cheers, > Pete > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2008 11:07:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > billtompkinscccc@comcast.net writes: > > > > > John- > > I can't help myself. You must be drinking "Light" beer. :) > > > Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at Coffin > Butte. How big was it? We stood two people in the pocket for a photo > because we felt no one would believe it wasn't just another fishing story. The > vug was about 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and 3 feet deep, lined with inch long > stilbites and 2 inch calcite cubes about every 6 inches. It was blinding in > the sunlight. > > The next weekend, the entire area was gone, crushed into gravel by the owner. > > They've since filled the entire mountainside with garbage, covered it with > thick plastic, and now convert the methane gas to electricity. > > Too bad they did it so fast, there were areas with 2 inch tall apophyllites, > inch long stilbites in plates 6 inches across, half inch analcimes, calcites > by the dozens....... ah, yes, I miss that place. > > Bill Tompkins > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "John Siebel" > > > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of > many). > > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm > thinking > > prismatic perhaps? > > > > John > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From billtompkinscccc at comcast.net Sun Dec 7 13:11:11 2008 From: billtompkinscccc at comcast.net (billtompkinscccc@comcast.net) Date: Sun Dec 7 13:11:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite Message-ID: <120720082111.16818.493C3BEF000B7577000041B222007601800C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> As for mindat, Coffin Butte has at least 3 different quarries with at least that many names. The best collecting was at the S2F quarry, now owned (I believe) by the Morse bros. and they operate the Benton County landfill there. To the east is the old D.O.T. quarry that's now a bird sanctuary. It was started during WW2 when Camp Adair used it as a place for engineers to practice before being shipped out. There are still many old drill bits abandoned where they were when the phone rang and it was time to go. And finally. around to the west, the one Tim mentioned. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Pmodreski@aol.com > That's an awesome description of that pocket, Bill. Do you know if anyone > has a copy of that picture, posted online or ever published anywhere? > > I just searched on mindat and, interestingly, no one has posted any calcite > or stilbite images there; the only pictures (4) posted there for Coffin Butte > are analcime and apophyllite. > > P.S., I did quite understand what was funny (?) about prismatic calcite; > sounds fine to me. High cirrus clouds that show rainbow colors near the sun > are > commonly called "prismatic clouds" in meteorology. > > (of course, prismatic referred to a mineral would be confused with meaning a > prism-shaped crystal habit; parallel-elongated faces, which is something that > calcite can form.) > > cheers, > Pete > > > > In a message dated 12/6/2008 11:07:36 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > billtompkinscccc@comcast.net writes: > > > > > John- > > I can't help myself. You must be drinking "Light" beer. :) > > > Actually, I was with Jon Gladwell when he broke into a huge pocket at Coffin > Butte. How big was it? We stood two people in the pocket for a photo > because we felt no one would believe it wasn't just another fishing story. The > vug was about 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and 3 feet deep, lined with inch long > stilbites and 2 inch calcite cubes about every 6 inches. It was blinding in > the sunlight. > > The next weekend, the entire area was gone, crushed into gravel by the owner. > > They've since filled the entire mountainside with garbage, covered it with > thick plastic, and now convert the methane gas to electricity. > > Too bad they did it so fast, there were areas with 2 inch tall apophyllites, > inch long stilbites in plates 6 inches across, half inch analcimes, calcites > by the dozens....... ah, yes, I miss that place. > > Bill Tompkins > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "John Siebel" > > > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of > many). > > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm > thinking > > prismatic perhaps? > > > > John > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 7 15:22:21 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 7 15:22:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: <42bb933a646c7a6201baf62f49829494@ptd.net> References: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net><2E171F5AEC784830BD37FBF9B5D044C6@Notebook> <42bb933a646c7a6201baf62f49829494@ptd.net> Message-ID: <7FAD83EABD2A435D87D4B2BAC4EA0B8E@AXELDESKTOP> Heck yes, me too... Sorry about that John, I thought you meant that as funny as it sounded... I really thought the same as Earl... prisms and rainbows are like Christmas and eggnog ;-))) Iridescent would be the proper term, I guess? Do we use that term for non-metallic stuff? Still it was one of the better unintentional (and intentional) jokes I ever heard in the realm of mineralogy. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Earl R. Verbeek > Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2008 21:49 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Calcite > Urgentie: Laag > > > > > > Earl Wrote: > >>Ohhhhh that's good, that's verrrry good......on several levels. > > > > I'm missing my own joke here Earl! I know I can be rather thick at times. > > > Care to explain? > > > > Ohhh, sorry -- I didn't see this e-mail message until it came through > again, embedded in another, just now on Sunday afternoon. But lessee here, > if I remember correctly you mentioned something about a calcite crystal > that showed a rainbow inside if you oriented it correctly, and then said > something about prismatic calcite -- so I thought you were alluding to the > calcite crystal acting like a prism to disperse light into a spectrum. I > appreciated the subltety of that joke, the "prismatic" referring not to the > crystal habit but to its optical properties. Intended or not, that was > really good, I thought. Keep 'em coming! > > Cheers- Earl > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From markstanley at bellnet.ca Sun Dec 7 15:34:10 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Sun Dec 7 15:38:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein> Message-ID: <006b01c958c4$976b5d80$a564e2d1@b1quvu32> Dear Alan: Wilberforce is about an hour drive from my home, I have spent some time collecting in that area. Molybdenite is fairly common there. I have not heard of a mine called the White Elephant, but there is Elephant Lake near Wilberforce. Our club meeting is Tuesday night, so I will ask some of the local collectors. If they have heard of it, I will let you know. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada -7 degrees Celsius From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 7 17:12:40 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 7 17:12:09 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4EE6EFE0-C4C5-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> The current thought by the researchers is that the energy comes from breaking bonds. http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/22/xrays-made-from-scot.html We know that the x-rays come from slowing electrons traveling acrosss a two thousandth of an inch gap in a vacuum. They occur in bursts suggesting a charge accumulation is occurring as the tape is pulled 1.2 inches/second off the roll. http://www.montereyherald.com/science/ci_11030562 Each burst contains about 300,000 x-ray photons http://www.geekologie.com/2008/10/i_smell_cancer_scotch_tape_emi.php Air slows down the electrons so you only get light. Desktop fusion energies might be reached if you unrolled the tape ten times faster. http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE49N5RT20081024 I'm sure there is an answer, but it looks like the researchers don't have it nailed down yet. Kreigh On Sunday, Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > there's more to it. > > > > When one cleave a mineral, one actually may produce a visible flash > known as > triboluminescence. Quite a few minerals appear to have this quality. > > Sphalerite, clinohedrite and diamond to name a few. > > Most people think that the sparks that you see when scratching such > minerals > (or breaking them) are particle that burn up in the air. They are in > fact > the binding energy between the crystal planes that is relaxing after > tearing > them apart (by the millions with one pin-stroke). > > > > Then there's fractoluminescence. In my opinion it was just another > word for > triboluminescence but since it seems to apply for some kinds of glass > (which > is non-crystalline) I needed to adjust my opinion. > > Breaking the quite solid bonds between Si and O results in flashes of > light > with energies of 1.9 to 2.7 eV. This is equivalent to 652.5 nm (red) > to > 459.2 nm (blue) light. > > > > Kreigh These Si-O bonds are quite strong. If the bonds in adhesive > tape glue > were equally strong you would need dozens of horse-powers or more to > peel of > an inch. Still that would only result in visible light, not even soft > UV. So > indirectly, this cleavage flash redirects us to what you wrote on > 10/24: > "Peeling tape is breaking a lot of bonds. That energy has to go > somewhere. There is no need to invoke vacuum quantum fluctuations." No > way > that you can get X-rays from breaking bonds. any bonds. I have some > possibles for this phenomenon. Maybe good for a new thread? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > < http://www.uvminerals.org/> > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > < > http://www.minerant.org/index.html> > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website:< > http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/> > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 17:31:13 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Dec 7 17:34:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <9C1199496B7C4BAA97E08700FB9188D6@LarryRush> Message-ID: <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal systems which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These are to be used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a beginning class in mineralogy. I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but am not having any luck right now. Larry Rush From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Dec 7 17:39:07 2008 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 7 17:39:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates Message-ID: Wards Scinetific in Rochester NY used to carry a very large set of templates. I don't know if they are still available.... In a message dated 12/7/2008 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, larryrush@worldnet.att.net writes: I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal systems which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These are to be used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a beginning class in mineralogy. I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but am not having any luck right now. Larry Rush -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Stay in touch with ALL of your friends: update your AIM, Bebo, Facebook, and MySpace pages with just one click. The NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000012) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 7 18:35:51 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 7 18:35:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates In-Reply-To: <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> Message-ID: In 1991 the Rochester Mineralogical Symposium published "A Guide to Understanding Crystallography" by Jennie R. Smith, Library of Congress Catalog Number 91-092990. The last chapter is a set of templates designed to be photocopied, enlarged, cut out, folded, and glued together. Perhaps you can find a copy of the excellent 176 page spiral bound book. Edmund Scientific has a plastic set of crystal forms available. I found a link to http://www.mineralogie.uni-wuerzburg.de/links/teach/crysteach.html that said there were templates available from the page, but I didn't have time to explore the links and find it. It certainly was an interesting collection of resources on crystallography. There is a free PDF download with templates at http://www.iucr.org/education/teaching-resources/polyhedral-models/ crystal-classes that I found looking for the instructions on how to cut wooden models on a table saw from a 4x4 that I know one of the local geology professors published a few years ago. Kreigh On Sunday, Dec 7, 2008, at 20:31 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal > systems which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These > are to be used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a > beginning class in mineralogy. > > I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but > am not having any luck right now. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 18:56:40 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Dec 7 18:56:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates In-Reply-To: <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook> <003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <9C1199496B7C4BAA97E08700FB9188D6@LarryRush> <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> Message-ID: Larry, The Min Record recently (2007) published a very nice guide to Mineral Identification by Donald Peck. On pages 237 to 244 you will find a set of crystal model templates that you can photocopy. The book also is an excellent reference and is quite reasonably priced at $35. I recommend it highly to anyone looking to avoid getting yet another tie or bottle of aftershave for Christmas. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal systems > which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These are to be > used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a beginning class in > mineralogy. > > I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but am not > having any luck right now. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Dec 7 19:07:01 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (marilyn travis) Date: Sun Dec 7 19:07:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation References: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <97175ae90812021023v176b953bt4207133d5a4e490e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You might try disolving some CLEAR plexiglas in acetone (as you hav already soaljed it in acetone no prob.) then out the whole thing in the plexiglas acetone mix and let the acetone evaporate that will leave the plexiglas in the cracks Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Van Dyke" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation > Neal, > > Sorry, no help here, but I wanted to tell you I really like your quotes! > > Brenda > > > On 12/2/08, Neal Hazen wrote: >> >> I have some Peruvian chrysocolla. As a 5 lb mass, it is stable enough. >> However, it won't slab without crumbling. I am looking for specific >> advice >> on methods of stabilizing this material before I put it in the slab saw. >> I >> have washed the rock in detergent, then soaked it in acetone to prepare >> it. >> It's beautiful enough to be worth the cost of cyanoacrylate, if that is >> the >> best way to go. I am seeking a stabilizer that will give a minimum of >> 15mm >> penetration. The folks who stabilize turquoise seem to have the procedure >> and stabilizer locked down pretty well, but I have been unable to find a >> discussion of their technique. I dislike stabilizing any rock intended >> for >> making into cabochons, but that is the only way this material will ever >> be >> anything other than a paperweight. >> >> Neal Hazen >> >> "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough >> to >> take away everything you have." >> >> Thomas Jefferson >> --------------- >> 'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes >> here >> in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall >> be >> treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to >> discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or >> origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet >> an >> American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided >> allegiance >> here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't >> an >> American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We >> have >> room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and >> we >> have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American >> people.' >> >> Theodore Roosevelt 1907 >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > Brenda Van Dyke, Editor > Arrowhead News > Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club > Wyoming, Michigan > www.indianmoundsrockclub.com > brenick@gmail.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 19:22:22 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 7 19:22:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation In-Reply-To: References: <989350.52769.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <97175ae90812021023v176b953bt4207133d5a4e490e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You mean clear acrylic polymer? I don't think the solidified material is very soluble in acetone. BK On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 22:07, marilyn travis wrote: > You might try disolving some CLEAR plexiglas in acetone (as you hav already > soaljed it in acetone no prob.) then out the whole thing in the plexiglas > acetone mix and let the acetone evaporate that will leave the plexiglas in > the cracks Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Van Dyke" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Dec 7 19:24:49 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (marilyn travis) Date: Sun Dec 7 19:24:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dead rock saw References: <713CD2A0-088F-42DC-8DF4-1FDD0B54F3C0@heidelberg.edu><6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E4905709451@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu><6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E490570947D@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu><6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E4905709486@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu><9883E32D-3A27-4A73-AFF8-56610C3DAF2D@heidelberg.edu> <2138C5C8D5C44B35A5A0C7D21AB2F76B@D8YF2G81> Message-ID: <603F6FBFD8914F05BA7B1EB856D91B9E@marilyn> Talk to your local bearing/bushing sales co. they either can fix it or give you the name of a machine shop to replace them those saws are worth getting fixed Diamond pacific has the patents now or rights/parts for other necessary parts. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Davis" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Dead rock saw > Pete, > > If you don't know have the know how or the tools to fix it, one > possibility is to contact one of the local farm equipment dealers. They > can > give you the name of a mobile mechanic who is used to repairing farm > equipment, and this time of year would appreciate a job inside where it is > warm as a "fill in" for a slack day. > > Kay > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of R. Peter > Richards > Sent: November 27, 2008 2:02 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Dead rock saw > > My old Highland Park model E4 rock saw finally bit the dust. The > bearings seized up. I managed to get the shaft block off the box, > but can't seem to take it apart. Not sure I could replace the > bearings anyway.... > > Anyone have a spare shaft block to sell? A spare saw? Do I have any > other options? > > Thanks, > Pete Richards > (Ohio) > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Mon Dec 8 04:02:51 2008 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Mon Dec 8 04:03:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite Message-ID: John: You could label it with my name and address and ship it "overnight express"!!!!:-)) >>> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com 12/06/08 6:56 PM >>> I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of many). In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm thinking prismatic perhaps? John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 07:37:12 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 8 07:37:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <538722.85641.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, the "solidified" (polymerized) polymethyl methacrylate- trade names Plexiglas, Lucite, Acrylite, etc. is quite soluble in acetone. Jim Daly --- On Sun, 12/7/08, J Bryan Kramer wrote: From: J Bryan Kramer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stone Consolidation To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 7:22 PM You mean clear acrylic polymer? I don't think the solidified material is very soluble in acetone. BK On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 22:07, marilyn travis wrote: > You might try disolving some CLEAR plexiglas in acetone (as you hav already > soaljed it in acetone no prob.) then out the whole thing in the plexiglas > acetone mix and let the acetone evaporate that will leave the plexiglas in > the cracks Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Van Dyke" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Dec 8 08:06:20 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Dec 8 08:06:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><9C1199496B7C4BAA97E08700FB9188D6@LarryRush> <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> Message-ID: <310C9B3F6D004C41AA0DF03AC652C9F1@Junior> I can think of two books with crystal templates that you can copy, cut, and build: Understanding Crystallography by Jennie Smith Mineral Identification by Don Peck The former was published over 15 years ago, and I'm not sure about its availability. The latter is available from the Mineralogical Record, see their website or a recent copy of the mag. Both are superb and I would suggest that for most serious mineral collectors they should be considered mandatory reading. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates >I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal systems >which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These are to be >used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a beginning class in >mineralogy. > > I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but am > not having any luck right now. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 8 08:07:37 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Dec 8 08:11:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates References: Message-ID: Thank you, Kreigh and Nate! I found exactly what I was looking for at this address: http://www.iucr.org/education/teaching-resources/polyhedral-models/ (and the cost was very reasonable (free!)) And I do plan on getting Peck's book, too! Both of you guys saved me a lot of time and effort! Larry From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 8 08:49:06 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Dec 8 08:52:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><9C1199496B7C4BAA97E08700FB9188D6@LarryRush> <9D0773500AAA47629CF1D5153208DE0C@LarryRush> Message-ID: <5CDE7D06334A47A5BEF1AC94E9C912C8@LarryRush> Don Peck (the author of the book that Nate recommended) was kind enough to send me the following information. Although I won't need it, this looks like a super teaching device....... (This program can be found with Google, and may need some translation into English.) "Have you seen the computer program, Kristall2000? It allows one to build rotatable wire-frame crystal models for any mineral and with as many forms as one wishes. Also, the development of forms may be manipulated to increase or decrease the development. Then there is a feature where the crystal model can be printed flat. It is a great program for teaching crystallography. The learning curve is a little steep and the printed models are a bit small (constricted by the size of a sheet of paper). Never the less, it is an impressive and useful program." Larry Rush From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Mon Dec 8 09:14:30 2008 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Mon Dec 8 09:14:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates Message-ID: Pretty much any high school Earth Science lab manual would have a page or two of cut-N-fold crystal models. I use the Spaulding & Namowitz text book published by McDougal-Littell http://www.mcdougallittell.com/store/ProductCatalogController?cmd=Browse&subcmd=LoadDetail&ID=1005500000031658&frontOrBack=B&division=M01&sortProductsBy=SEQ_TITLE&sortEntriesBy=SEQ_NAME There are also some "Block Diagram" books designed to cut-N-paste. ________________________________ Bill Dicks Teacher, Northville High School Board Member, Michigan Earth Science Teachers Association >>> tjokela@execulink.com 12/08/08 11:06 AM >>> I can think of two books with crystal templates that you can copy, cut, and build: Understanding Crystallography by Jennie Smith Mineral Identification by Don Peck The former was published over 15 years ago, and I'm not sure about its availability. The latter is available from the Mineralogical Record, see their website or a recent copy of the mag. Both are superb and I would suggest that for most serious mineral collectors they should be considered mandatory reading. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal systems templates >I am looking for a source of printable templates of the crystal systems >which can be cut, folded and glued into geometric forms. These are to be >used as teaching examples of the crystal systems for a beginning class in >mineralogy. > > I made my own once (laborious!), and found some once on the web, but am > not having any luck right now. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 09:41:11 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Dec 8 09:41:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <247192.39970.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's that time again! The price lists of microminerals at www.sauktown.com will be updated later today. This month the main list is heavy on wulfenites from various localities, plus a few uncommon species: berzeliite, kimuraite-(Y), swamboite, veenite, woodwardite, and chabazite-Sr. These are mostly one or two of a kind, so get your orders in early. The Dryer list this month is mainly New Mexico localities. There are also a few new thumbnails. All the best for the upcoming holiday season. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Dec 8 13:03:15 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 8 13:03:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: roughing it (was) streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite RATED PG-13 In-Reply-To: <962BA016CE7242B28CFB73F7E96FBA4A@Notebook> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> <49397E88.9040603@hawaiiantel.net> <4939BA66.3000906@hawaiiantel.net> <962BA016CE7242B28CFB73F7E96FBA4A@Notebook> Message-ID: <493D8B93.60705@hawaiiantel.net> NOTE: The following is mostly off-topic, but the rock interest part is in the second and last paragraphs. John, you got the "old" part right, but "hippies" we never were. Perhaps you got that idea because I told you we built our own house and lived off-power for 10 years. We were starving graduate students in Honolulu from 1972, and we moved to the Big Island in 1981. Bill's job as Support Scientist for the University telescope plus my job teaching at a private prep school did not produce enough income for us to buy a home. So we sunk all our money into 12 acres of land, and built our own cottage from materials salvaged from an old sugar plantation house. It was so old that the nails we removed from the boards were square. The wood was cedar, so there was no termite damage (apparently termites don't like cedar). When we dug the holes for our cesspool and outhouse, the soil was the typical red clay found in the older parts of all the Hawaiian islands (the newer parts are various products of volcanoes, and will take a few thousands of years to become soil). Part way down we dug through a yellow-white line that occurs over much of the Big Island which is probably the Uwekahuna Ash of about 2500 years ago, and then further down a thicker line of red, possibly the Pahala Ash of 30,000 to 40,000 years ago. These were Phreatic Eruptions of Kilauea and Mauna Kea. See the following URL for explanation of that kind of eruption, which is similar to that of Mt. St Helens in 1980: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1994/94_05_06.html For ten years we lived in that cottage we built, which was 20 feet wide and 28 feet long. We only used the outhouse for the first year (and you're right, lime works for an outhouse. We learned that in 1969 when we worked for the Forest Service as fire lookouts on a tower above Lake Coeur d'alene. We also learned that it was wise to limit one's liquid intake--especially of an alcoholic nature--in the evening, because going to the loo entailed walking out the door, down a 40-foot high stairway, across a parking lot to the outhouse, and back). Here on the Big Island the outhouse was not as hard to reach and it was kind of neat to look up at the stars going out there at night. Not as much fun when it was raining or cold and windy We built a water catchment system of corrugated metal roofing sheets laid out on a slope funneled into a Doughboy Pool; with about 200 inches of rain annually, we never had trouble keeping the pool full. We installed this above our house so we had gravity flow and no need for a water pump. Power came from solar panels for small needs, and a gas-powered generator for big ones. Kerosene lamps---about 15 of them---provided lighting. Refrigerator and stove were the type used in motor homes, fueled by propane tanks which we periodically hauled into town to refill. Eventually a couple built a house as close to ours as they could, set up their rock band in their garage, and played "music" at top volume at all hours of night and day. It was so loud it made our walls and floor vibrate. We couldn't bring the police in to make it stop...I guess there are no noise regulations in the country. About that time we came into inheritances as both our sets of parents died within a few months of each other. So we sold the land and it's little self-sufficient cottage and moved into the "Big City" (Hilo, population about 40,000). We bought three acres and built a nice home with all utilities. Several members of the Rockhound List have visited us and will attest to the pleasant location and view from our home. We can see Mauna Kea behind us, Hilo Bay below, and on a clear day we can see three columns of smoke and steam to the south: one from Pu'u O'o where the lava has been active for 25 years, one from the Halema'uma'u eruption which began last March, and one from the location (Waikupanaha) where lava is entering the ocean. Beside our front door is a large bell from the engine of a train on the Great Northern Railway; it was rung at our wedding on Orcas Island in Puget Sound 42 years ago. We have mounted it on a large (about two feet tall) chunk of Mauna Kea bluestone, a very dense basalt with a slate-blue color. That's our doorbell! Aloha, Kitty (Not roughing it any more) John Siebel wrote: > Ah Kitty, > > Aren't you guys old hippies? You should be used to roughing it!. The > outhouse isn't so bad. Lime (on topic!) keeps it fresh as a daisy. > Although I did get stung in the butt by a wasp the other day. Sucker > snuck up my long johns while I was wasn't looking. > > JDS > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite > RATED PG-13 > > >> John Siebel wrote: >> Well, Bill and I were thinking about going to visit you next summer, >> but now I'm not so sure! ;-) >> >> Aloha, Kitty >>> Kitty, >>> >>> Fortuately we have a streak plate that came with our hardness points >>> since our toilet is an outhouse. :-) >>> >>> John >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >>> >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 11:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: streak plate (was) Darwin, CA Pyrite >>> RATED PG-13 >>> >>> >>>> Just a note for those who don't have a streak plate: use the >>>> underside of the tank lid on your toilet, provided it is ceramic >>>> (I'm talking about the tank cover, not the seat lid). >>>> >>>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Mon Dec 8 13:16:06 2008 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Mon Dec 8 13:16:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Holiday Greeting Cards w/ a Mineral Twist Message-ID: <493D8E96.3050108@rochester.rr.com> Dear Rockhounds, I have uploaded some Mineral Holiday Cards on my website (www.diamonddanpublications.net) for you to download and use as you wish. The three styles are in color for printing or black and white for the kids to color. Feel free to copy them as much as you wish. Blessings to all. Darryl Powell From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Dec 8 13:20:19 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Dec 8 13:20:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] roughing it clarification Message-ID: <493D8F93.2010904@hawaiiantel.net> In my previous post I said the rock part was in the second and last paragraphs. Then when I saw the message posted, I found that the break between the first and second paragraph was omitted. The second one begins: When we dug the holes... Aloha, Kitty From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Dec 8 15:12:45 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Dec 8 15:13:08 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: <4EE6EFE0-C4C5-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <4EE6EFE0-C4C5-11DD-A2EF-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <26BBD29B402E48149E7BE0A8C0F431F3@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Kreigh, This has all the characteristics for becoming a good brain-wrestle (LOL) > The current thought by the researchers is that the energy comes from > breaking bonds. > > http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/22/xrays-made-from-scot.html > [Axel] I don't believe what the second paragraph says about "this kind of energy release being known as triboluminescence." Last week I had a long conversation with Martin Slaman, a research engineer on the team of professor D. Ianuzzi (Faculty of Exact Sciences, Department of Condensed matter Physics and Astronomy, University Amsterdam, The Netherlands). They are getting evidence from their research that the Casimir-effect and Vander Waals force may both be (he used the term "quite probably") aspects of vacuum-energy and thus have the same cause "deep-down". Triboluminescence results from shearing (relative to the atomic realm) large chunks of crystals apart. Usually there is some degree of cleavage-planes involved which would make it easier to understand precisely why vacuum energy could keep crystals together than to explain the origin of Vander Waals forces. > We know that the x-rays come from slowing electrons traveling acrosss a > two thousandth of an inch gap in a vacuum. [Axel] Here's my first problem: if you lower the pressure from atmospheric to vacuum you would see this: http://www.duniway.com/images/pdf/pg/Paschen-Curve.pdf First, at about 760 torr (or mm Hg), resistance of the air is high for the electron trying to jump across a potential. Then at about 1 torr (1.3 thousandth of atmospheric pressure) electrons would encounter the least resistance for making the "spark". Lowering the pressure still would sharply increase the resistance again (has to do with a strange effect that bends the electrons astray from the shortest path between the electrodes. Possibly electric field lines?) Saying that the tape emits X-rays in vacuum without stating the quality of that vacuum is something like saying that a horse can jump over a wall. Both true and meaningless. You got to state what kind of horse, height of wall, age of horse, vegetation on either side of wall, on which celestial body (gravity matters) ;-))) 2/1000 inch = like 0.05 mm The softest possible x-rays are situated around 10 nm. We set the limit between extreme UV and X-rays at the point where the photons stop exiting the valence electrons of atoms and start knocking inner electrons out of orbit. The 30.4 nm spectral line of helium being the deepest natural occurring UV spectral line. 10 nanometers corresponds with 124 eV. It would require a potential well of 2480 volts over a 2/1000 inch gap to produce that short a wavelength. I have a deep respect for static electricity but I seriously doubt that a roll of tape can generate that on a continuous basis. > They occur in bursts > suggesting a charge accumulation is occurring as the tape is pulled 1.2 > inches/second off the roll. [Axel] That could result from two processes (off the top of my head, anyway): 1) static charge builds up between the roll and the peeled off tape. It accumulates until it gets high enough to bridge the 0.05 mm and hits the opposite charged side. There is a bottleneck however!!! You can crash electrons into atoms to rattle loose the inner electrons (remember that the outer electrons will only result in UV). The bottleneck is "yield". The tape is made almost exclusively of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen with just a little nitrogen in the cyanate of the glue. All these are elements that you can't measure using X-ray fluorescence. Any atom lighter than say sodium will absorb X-rays rather than emit them because the inner electrons are easily knocked out of orbit. Small nuclei have fewer protons thus attract the inner electrons less strongly. That is why even 60.000 eV (hard X-rays) can only penetrate a few micrometers in polyethylene... You can bombard the tape as hard as you like with electrons, it may decompose but will not give off X-rays. 2) Slight fluctuations in the thickness of the glue layer, due to uneven compression of the tape during or after production. Most rolls suffer from that and you can easily see it with the unaided eye. > > http://www.montereyherald.com/science/ci_11030562 > > Each burst contains about 300,000 x-ray photons > > http://www.geekologie.com/2008/10/i_smell_cancer_scotch_tape_emi.php > > Air slows down the electrons so you only get light. Desktop fusion > energies might be reached if you unrolled the tape ten times faster. [Axel] Scientists do that by shooting megawatt (THREE megawatt) lasers at extremely compressed tritium in a magnetic field that needs to be powered by superconducting magnets using enough power to light up a small city for a short period. Start-up temperature: 150.000.000 degrees. I will personally drive anyone who tells me that he can ignite a fusion reaction by means of a Scotch-tape potential well accelerating electrons to Stockholm to crash the Nobel-price award ceremony. Naturally, with current fuel prices I would like to see a working demonstration first ;-)))) > http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE49N5RT20081024 > > I'm sure there is an answer, but it looks like the researchers don't > have it nailed down yet. [Axel] Neither have I, unfortunately (LOL) I would however suggest the flowing experiment: Try the same experiment but replace the relatively thick layer of glue by a very thin layer of oil. Just enough to fill the pores of the tape but no more than that. Put a weak break on the axis carrying the full roll so that the tension is mimicking the stickiness of the tape. My guess is that you will see X-rays in vacuum without breaking bonds if Vander Waals (or Casimir-effect) forces are involved. The tighter the windings, the shorter the wavelength of the photons. I may be wrong but that would be my bet ;-))) If you could make a very smooth tape without pores, I guess that would work even without the oil. Greetz to you (and family) Axel From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 8 19:31:25 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 8 19:31:38 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: <26BBD29B402E48149E7BE0A8C0F431F3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Axel, I suspect we could answer a lot of our questions if we read the actual paper. I found the references, but I don't have access to Nature online. The report is the cover story for the issue of Nature: Volume 455 Number 7216 pp1007-1148 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/ About the cover http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/covers/ Sticky tape generates X-rays http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081022/full/news.2008.1185.html Sticky Tape X-Rays (The Movie) http://www.nature.com/nature/videoarchive/x-rays/ Correlation between nanosecond X-ray flashes and stick?slip friction in peeling tape p1089 http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/abs/nature07378.html But I did find that the x-rays produced from the scotch tape have a power of 15K electronvolts... http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn15016?DCMP=NLC- nletter&nsref=dn15016 ...so it really is feasible to make an XRD unit, or drive nuclear fusion reactions (even if it takes more energy than you would produce). Faster unrolling speeds should produce even more energy, at least to a point. This is science you could do at home. A Mason jar will hold a vacuum. Something to unroll tape could fit inside a Mason jar. Add the vacuum pump, power supplies, etc., and it should still fit on your dining room table (any bets the wife would not complain?). I wonder what new windows to learning x-ray fluorescence would open to amateurs. Kreigh On Monday, Dec 8, 2008, at 18:12 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Kreigh, > > This has all the characteristics for becoming a good brain-wrestle > (LOL) > >> The current thought by the researchers is that the energy comes from >> breaking bonds. >> >> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/22/xrays-made-from-scot.html >> > > [Axel] I don't believe what the second paragraph says about "this kind > of > energy release being known as triboluminescence." > Last week I had a long conversation with Martin Slaman, a research > engineer > on the team of professor D. Ianuzzi (Faculty of Exact Sciences, > Department > of Condensed matter Physics and Astronomy, University Amsterdam, The > Netherlands). > They are getting evidence from their research that the Casimir-effect > and > Vander Waals force may both be (he used the term "quite probably") > aspects > of vacuum-energy and thus have the same cause "deep-down". > Triboluminescence results from shearing (relative to the atomic realm) > large > chunks of crystals apart. Usually there is some degree of > cleavage-planes > involved which would make it easier to understand precisely why vacuum > energy could keep crystals together than to explain the origin of > Vander > Waals forces. > > >> We know that the x-rays come from slowing electrons traveling acrosss >> a >> two thousandth of an inch gap in a vacuum. > > [Axel] Here's my first problem: if you lower the pressure from > atmospheric > to vacuum you would see this: > http://www.duniway.com/images/pdf/pg/Paschen-Curve.pdf > First, at about 760 torr (or mm Hg), resistance of the air is high for > the > electron trying to jump across a potential. > Then at about 1 torr (1.3 thousandth of atmospheric pressure) electrons > would encounter the least resistance for making the "spark". > Lowering the pressure still would sharply increase the resistance > again (has > to do with a strange effect that bends the electrons astray from the > shortest path between the electrodes. Possibly electric field lines?) > Saying that the tape emits X-rays in vacuum without stating the > quality of > that vacuum is something like saying that a horse can jump over a > wall. Both > true and meaningless. You got to state what kind of horse, height of > wall, > age of horse, vegetation on either side of wall, on which celestial > body > (gravity matters) ;-))) > 2/1000 inch = like 0.05 mm > The softest possible x-rays are situated around 10 nm. > We set the limit between extreme UV and X-rays at the point where the > photons stop exiting the valence electrons of atoms and start knocking > inner > electrons out of orbit. > The 30.4 nm spectral line of helium being the deepest natural > occurring UV > spectral line. > 10 nanometers corresponds with 124 eV. > It would require a potential well of 2480 volts over a 2/1000 inch gap > to > produce that short a wavelength. I have a deep respect for static > electricity but I seriously doubt that a roll of tape can generate > that on a > continuous basis. > >> They occur in bursts >> suggesting a charge accumulation is occurring as the tape is pulled >> 1.2 >> inches/second off the roll. > > [Axel] That could result from two processes (off the top of my head, > anyway): > > 1) static charge builds up between the roll and the peeled off tape. > It > accumulates until it gets high enough to bridge the 0.05 mm and hits > the > opposite charged side. There is a bottleneck however!!! You can crash > electrons into atoms to rattle loose the inner electrons (remember > that the > outer electrons will only result in UV). The bottleneck is "yield". > The > tape is made almost exclusively of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen with just a > little nitrogen in the cyanate of the glue. All these are elements > that you > can't measure using X-ray fluorescence. > Any atom lighter than say sodium will absorb X-rays rather than emit > them > because the inner electrons are easily knocked out of orbit. Small > nuclei > have fewer protons thus attract the inner electrons less strongly. > That is > why even 60.000 eV (hard X-rays) can only penetrate a few micrometers > in > polyethylene... You can bombard the tape as hard as you like with > electrons, > it may decompose but will not give off X-rays. > > 2) Slight fluctuations in the thickness of the glue layer, due to > uneven > compression of the tape during or after production. Most rolls suffer > from > that and you can easily see it with the unaided eye. > >> >> http://www.montereyherald.com/science/ci_11030562 >> >> Each burst contains about 300,000 x-ray photons >> >> http://www.geekologie.com/2008/10/i_smell_cancer_scotch_tape_emi.php >> >> Air slows down the electrons so you only get light. Desktop fusion >> energies might be reached if you unrolled the tape ten times faster. > > [Axel] Scientists do that by shooting megawatt (THREE megawatt) lasers > at > extremely compressed tritium in a magnetic field that needs to be > powered by > superconducting magnets using enough power to light up a small city > for a > short period. Start-up temperature: 150.000.000 degrees. I will > personally > drive anyone who tells me that he can ignite a fusion reaction by > means of > a Scotch-tape potential well accelerating electrons to Stockholm to > crash > the Nobel-price award ceremony. Naturally, with current fuel prices I > would > like to see a working demonstration first ;-)))) > >> http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE49N5RT20081024 >> >> I'm sure there is an answer, but it looks like the researchers don't >> have it nailed down yet. > > [Axel] Neither have I, unfortunately (LOL) > I would however suggest the flowing experiment: > Try the same experiment but replace the relatively thick layer of glue > by a > very thin layer of oil. Just enough to fill the pores of the tape but > no > more than that. Put a weak break on the axis carrying the full roll so > that > the tension is mimicking the stickiness of the tape. My guess is that > you > will see X-rays in vacuum without breaking bonds if Vander Waals (or > Casimir-effect) forces are involved. The tighter the windings, the > shorter > the wavelength of the photons. > I may be wrong but that would be my bet ;-))) > If you could make a very smooth tape without pores, I guess that would > work > even without the oil. > > Greetz to you (and family) > > Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 8 20:15:33 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 8 20:15:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05E311B1-C5A8-11DD-9395-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> I wish I had said that. ;-} I have some "Christmas Calcite" that has alternating red and green stripes visible on some surfaces. I understand it is due to sub-surface cracks, with lightwave length gaps, that produce interference, much like oil slicks on water. Kreigh On Monday, Dec 8, 2008, at 07:02 America/Detroit, William Dicks wrote: > John: > You could label it with my name and address and ship it "overnight > express"!!!!:-)) > >>>> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com 12/06/08 6:56 PM >>> > I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of > many). > In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm > thinking > prismatic perhaps? > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Dec 8 21:01:26 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Dec 8 21:02:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite References: <05E311B1-C5A8-11DD-9395-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I'll let you guys fight it out! This one has the whole ROYGBIV. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Calcite >I wish I had said that. ;-} > > I have some "Christmas Calcite" that has alternating red and green stripes > visible on some surfaces. I understand it is due to sub-surface cracks, > with lightwave length gaps, that produce interference, much like oil > slicks on water. > > Kreigh > On Monday, Dec 8, 2008, at 07:02 America/Detroit, William Dicks wrote: > >> John: >> You could label it with my name and address and ship it "overnight >> express"!!!!:-)) >> >>>>> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com 12/06/08 6:56 PM >>> >> I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of >> many). >> In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm >> thinking >> prismatic perhaps? >> >> John > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 8 21:40:24 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 8 21:40:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Calcite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Bill is on the far side of MI from you, so I should get first chance. But I learned it as VIBGYOR. Maybe I have it backwards and Bill gets first choice. I have no problems with Bill getting your specimen; I know it will be seen by many more students than I could share it with. I can't think of a better fate for a specimen than to be worn out by the fingers of children. Your specimen would be the second calcite I have ever seen with a full spectrum (where do I see the picture?). No fight, I'll give up. Send the specimen to Bill. Thanks for letting us fight it out for the specimen. ;-} Cheers! Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008, at 00:01 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > I'll let you guys fight it out! This one has the whole ROYGBIV. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Calcite > > >> I wish I had said that. ;-} >> >> I have some "Christmas Calcite" that has alternating red and green >> stripes visible on some surfaces. I understand it is due to >> sub-surface cracks, with lightwave length gaps, that produce >> interference, much like oil slicks on water. >> >> Kreigh >> On Monday, Dec 8, 2008, at 07:02 America/Detroit, William Dicks wrote: >> >>> John: >>> You could label it with my name and address and ship it >>> "overnight >>> express"!!!!:-)) >>> >>>>>> john@pandemoniumgraphics.com 12/06/08 6:56 PM >>> >>> I've got a handsome calcite on stilbite from Coffin Butte, OR (one of >>> many). >>> In the proper light it shows a rainbow. How should I label it? I'm >>> thinking >>> prismatic perhaps? >>> >>> John >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Mon Dec 8 22:22:18 2008 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Mon Dec 8 22:22:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] (AD) Blair Rock Shop up and running Message-ID: Hi Rockhounds: My wife and I just launched a web store with around 100 items so far. We'll be putting more up as we can. It's our intention to offer reasonably good quality and low pricing. To visit, please use the follwing URL, and click on the "Blair Rock Shop" link www.scottsrocks.com If you have a chance, please take a look and don't be too shy to give us a little feedback. It's a new endeavor so we invite your esteemed opinions. Hope everyone has a warm and wonderful holiday season. Regards - Scott & Meesha Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 9 07:01:23 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 9 07:04:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] (AD) Blair Rock Shop up and running References: Message-ID: <25E1951EA4F743FAAE1ECA28C535A6FA@LarryRush> Nice job, Scott! Best of luck!! Larry ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Blair" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list f collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] (AD) Blair Rock Shop up and running Hi Rockhounds: My wife and I just launched a web store with around 100 items so far. We'll be putting more up as we can. It's our intention to offer reasonably good quality and low pricing. To visit, please use the follwing URL, and click on the "Blair Rock Shop" link www.scottsrocks.com If you have a chance, please take a look and don't be too shy to give us a little feedback. It's a new endeavor so we invite your esteemed opinions. Hope everyone has a warm and wonderful holiday season. Regards - Scott & Meesha Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Dec 9 07:57:10 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Dec 9 07:57:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD:MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk In-Reply-To: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> References: <120720080607.312.493B680E0009C6960000013822007614380C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: Looking for a good stocking stuffer? How about one of my MasMils/PLUS CD's? In case you don't know... it's based on the late-lamented USBM MASMILS database. 210,000 Mines on one disk. Most in the US, many world-wide. Arranged by state and county for easy import in DeLorme and Microsoft mapping products. Also arranged by "commodity" (gold, silver, etc etc). Can be imported into many GPS systems. $15 PPD. PayPal, check (or cheque if you prefer!), money order, small unmarked bills... Regards, Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com PS. Nice glasswork too! I've just started making a line of kiln-formed glass Menorahs: http://www.catspaw-minerals.com/glass/menorah.jpg Contact me for details. From markstanley at bellnet.ca Tue Dec 9 11:32:13 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Tue Dec 9 11:39:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net> Message-ID: <004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> Dear Alan: I checked with Chris Fouts, a geologist who lives in the Bancroft area. He gave the following reply: "THe White Elephant Mine is a moly mine just west of Wilberforce, just about adjacent to town. If you take County Road #4, (aka Essonville Rd or the former Fleming Rd), west out of Wilberforce, look for the first paved road on the left (south). It leads a short distance into a cul-de-sac with subdivided properties intended for houses. During the 90's these properties were unoccupied but I believe that there is development now. As you head into the cul-de-sac look to the right. As you pass a swampy area, go into the forest. The remains of a mill foundation can be found quite easily. This is the mine site. I don't know if there are records of production from this mine but there are shares for the mine company on the wall of the township office in Wilberforce. My brief recon of the property in the mid 90's did not reveal any good collecting spot, but maybe I did not dig enough.". I hope that this helps. If you are every up this way let me know and we can try to find it. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > On Dec 6, 2008, at 10:22 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > >> I have a molybdenite specimen in a quartz matrix with other minerals > >> from > >> the White Elephant mine, Wilberforce, Ontario. It was obtained at the > >> Bedford (IN) Rock Swap back in 1991. The locality is not on mindat, has > >> anyone else heard of this location? > >> > >> Alan G. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 9 11:51:40 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 9 11:55:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net> <004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush> Mark: Back in the 70's, there was an abundance in the NE US of a mineral always labeled as coming from Wilberforce. It was a well-formed, black mineral sometimes in a white Calcite(?) matrix. I believe it was labeled Tremolite, but I seem to remember that the ID was usually in dispute. This is really dim in my mind (as you can tell). Actually, it is not too bad, coming from someone who cannot remember what he had for breakfast this AM......Can you refresh my memory about that (the mineral, not breakfast!)? Unfortunately, I did not keep even one of the many that I saw at that time. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Stanley" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > Dear Alan: > > I checked with Chris Fouts, a geologist who lives in the Bancroft area. > He > gave the following reply: > > > "THe White Elephant Mine is a moly mine just west of > Wilberforce, just about adjacent to town. If you take County Road #4, > (aka Essonville Rd or the former Fleming Rd), west out of Wilberforce, > look for the first paved road on the left (south). It leads a short > distance into a cul-de-sac with subdivided properties intended for houses. > During the 90's these properties were unoccupied but I believe that there > is development now. As you head into the cul-de-sac look to the > right. As you pass a swampy area, go into the forest. The remains of a > mill foundation can be found quite easily. This is the mine site. > > I don't know if there are records of production from this mine but there > are shares for the mine company on the wall of the township office in > Wilberforce. > > My brief recon of the property in the mid 90's did not reveal any good > collecting spot, but maybe I did not dig enough.". > > > I hope that this helps. If you are every up this way let me know and we > can > try to find it. > > Mark Stanley > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > > From markstanley at bellnet.ca Tue Dec 9 12:32:04 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Tue Dec 9 12:40:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush> Message-ID: <006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> Dear Larry: Would that have been Fluorrichterite from the George Earle Farm, Lot 27, Con. XIV, Manmouth Township, Hastings Co., Wilberforce, Ontario, Canada? Nice sharp crystals in off-white Calcite matrix. It was easy to get a nice specimen as the Calcite was soft and easily removed with careful trimming. It was a roadcut that was taken apart by roadwork. At least one of the workers took the material home with a dump truck. I still have a pail full of small crystals and sections in the basement that needs to be sorted. Quite a few years ago I traded for a large matrix piece with Harry Ablett, he was the dealer whose shop was on Mumford Road near Wilberforce. It is about 40 cm across with 10 to 15 cm crystals in matrix, I just have not gotten up my nerve to start trimming it. Some collectors used acid to etch the crystals out of the Calcite, but it left them looking pitted and unattractive. Rarely, crystals of Pyrrhotite were also found. Locally, at the shows it is still possible to find good samples. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > Mark: Back in the 70's, there was an abundance in the NE US of a mineral > always labeled as coming from Wilberforce. It was a well-formed, black > mineral > sometimes in a white Calcite(?) matrix. I believe it was labeled Tremolite, > but I seem to remember that the ID was usually in dispute. This is really > dim in my mind (as you can tell). Actually, it is not too bad, coming from > someone who cannot remember what he had for breakfast this AM......Can you > refresh my memory about that (the mineral, not breakfast!)? Unfortunately, I > did not keep even one of the many that I saw at that time. > > Larry Rush > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Stanley" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > > > > Dear Alan: > > > > I checked with Chris Fouts, a geologist who lives in the Bancroft area. > > He > > gave the following reply: > > > > > > "THe White Elephant Mine is a moly mine just west of > > Wilberforce, just about adjacent to town. If you take County Road #4, > > (aka Essonville Rd or the former Fleming Rd), west out of Wilberforce, > > look for the first paved road on the left (south). It leads a short > > distance into a cul-de-sac with subdivided properties intended for houses. > > During the 90's these properties were unoccupied but I believe that there > > is development now. As you head into the cul-de-sac look to the > > right. As you pass a swampy area, go into the forest. The remains of a > > mill foundation can be found quite easily. This is the mine site. > > > > I don't know if there are records of production from this mine but there > > are shares for the mine company on the wall of the township office in > > Wilberforce. > > > > My brief recon of the property in the mid 90's did not reveal any good > > collecting spot, but maybe I did not dig enough.". > > > > > > I hope that this helps. If you are every up this way let me know and we > > can > > try to find it. > > > > Mark Stanley > > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 9 13:35:42 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 9 13:39:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush> <006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush> Mark: Exactly!! I'm glad your memory is sharper than mine! And I had visited Harry Ablett, too! Thanks for the exact locality! At some later time, I'll contact you off-line and see how I can get a piece for my collection to make up for my carelessness of years ago. And, for the list, this is a reminder....when localities are producing and specimens seem plentiful, don't be lulled into my mistake, thinking that the abundance will last forever. Get 'em while you can! Thanks, Mark.....Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Stanley" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > Dear Larry: > > Would that have been Fluorrichterite from the George Earle Farm, Lot 27, > Con. XIV, Manmouth Township, Hastings Co., Wilberforce, Ontario, Canada? > > Nice sharp crystals in off-white Calcite matrix. It was easy to get a > nice > specimen as the Calcite was soft and easily removed with careful trimming. > It was a roadcut that was taken apart by roadwork. At least one of the > workers took the material home with a dump truck. > > I still have a pail full of small crystals and sections in the basement > that > needs to be sorted. Quite a few years ago I traded for a large matrix > piece > with Harry Ablett, he was the dealer whose shop was on Mumford Road near > Wilberforce. It is about 40 cm across with 10 to 15 cm crystals in > matrix, > I just have not gotten up my nerve to start trimming it. > > Some collectors used acid to etch the crystals out of the Calcite, but it > left them looking pitted and unattractive. Rarely, crystals of Pyrrhotite > were also found. Locally, at the shows it is still possible to find good > samples. > > Mark Stanley > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Rush" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > > >> Mark: Back in the 70's, there was an abundance in the NE US of a mineral >> always labeled as coming from Wilberforce. It was a well-formed, black >> mineral >> sometimes in a white Calcite(?) matrix. I believe it was labeled > Tremolite, >> but I seem to remember that the ID was usually in dispute. This is really >> dim in my mind (as you can tell). Actually, it is not too bad, coming >> from >> someone who cannot remember what he had for breakfast this AM......Can >> you >> refresh my memory about that (the mineral, not breakfast!)? >> Unfortunately, > I >> did not keep even one of the many that I saw at that time. >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Stanley" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> ; >> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? >> >> >> > Dear Alan: >> > >> > I checked with Chris Fouts, a geologist who lives in the Bancroft area. >> > He >> > gave the following reply: >> > >> > >> > "THe White Elephant Mine is a moly mine just west of >> > Wilberforce, just about adjacent to town. If you take County Road #4, >> > (aka Essonville Rd or the former Fleming Rd), west out of Wilberforce, >> > look for the first paved road on the left (south). It leads a short >> > distance into a cul-de-sac with subdivided properties intended for > houses. >> > During the 90's these properties were unoccupied but I believe that > there >> > is development now. As you head into the cul-de-sac look to the >> > right. As you pass a swampy area, go into the forest. The remains of >> > a >> > mill foundation can be found quite easily. This is the mine site. >> > >> > I don't know if there are records of production from this mine but >> > there >> > are shares for the mine company on the wall of the township office in >> > Wilberforce. >> > >> > My brief recon of the property in the mid 90's did not reveal any good >> > collecting spot, but maybe I did not dig enough.". >> > >> > >> > I hope that this helps. If you are every up this way let me know and >> > we >> > can >> > try to find it. >> > >> > Mark Stanley >> > Norwood, Ontario, Canada >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From markstanley at bellnet.ca Tue Dec 9 16:34:30 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Tue Dec 9 16:37:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> Dear Larry: I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own collection so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is Fluororichterite. http://www.mindat.org/min-6952.html Send me your address off list and I send a suitable sample to you. Take care. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > Mark: Exactly!! I'm glad your memory is sharper than mine! And I had visited > Harry Ablett, too! Thanks for the exact locality! At some later time, I'll > contact you off-line and see how I can get a piece for my collection to make > up for my carelessness of years ago. > > And, for the list, this is a reminder....when localities are producing and > specimens seem plentiful, don't be lulled into my mistake, thinking that the > abundance will last forever. Get 'em while you can! > > Thanks, Mark.....Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Stanley" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > > > > Dear Larry: > > > > Would that have been Fluorrichterite from the George Earle Farm, Lot 27, > > Con. XIV, Manmouth Township, Hastings Co., Wilberforce, Ontario, Canada? > > > > Nice sharp crystals in off-white Calcite matrix. It was easy to get a > > nice > > specimen as the Calcite was soft and easily removed with careful trimming. > > It was a roadcut that was taken apart by roadwork. At least one of the > > workers took the material home with a dump truck. > > > > I still have a pail full of small crystals and sections in the basement > > that > > needs to be sorted. Quite a few years ago I traded for a large matrix > > piece > > with Harry Ablett, he was the dealer whose shop was on Mumford Road near > > Wilberforce. It is about 40 cm across with 10 to 15 cm crystals in > > matrix, > > I just have not gotten up my nerve to start trimming it. > > > > Some collectors used acid to etch the crystals out of the Calcite, but it > > left them looking pitted and unattractive. Rarely, crystals of Pyrrhotite > > were also found. Locally, at the shows it is still possible to find good > > samples. > > > > Mark Stanley > > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:51 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > > > > > >> Mark: Back in the 70's, there was an abundance in the NE US of a mineral > >> always labeled as coming from Wilberforce. It was a well-formed, black > >> mineral > >> sometimes in a white Calcite(?) matrix. I believe it was labeled > > Tremolite, > >> but I seem to remember that the ID was usually in dispute. This is really > >> dim in my mind (as you can tell). Actually, it is not too bad, coming > >> from > >> someone who cannot remember what he had for breakfast this AM......Can > >> you > >> refresh my memory about that (the mineral, not breakfast!)? > >> Unfortunately, > > I > >> did not keep even one of the many that I saw at that time. > >> > >> Larry Rush > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark Stanley" > >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >> ; > >> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:32 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? > >> > >> > >> > Dear Alan: > >> > > >> > I checked with Chris Fouts, a geologist who lives in the Bancroft area. > >> > He > >> > gave the following reply: > >> > > >> > > >> > "THe White Elephant Mine is a moly mine just west of > >> > Wilberforce, just about adjacent to town. If you take County Road #4, > >> > (aka Essonville Rd or the former Fleming Rd), west out of Wilberforce, > >> > look for the first paved road on the left (south). It leads a short > >> > distance into a cul-de-sac with subdivided properties intended for > > houses. > >> > During the 90's these properties were unoccupied but I believe that > > there > >> > is development now. As you head into the cul-de-sac look to the > >> > right. As you pass a swampy area, go into the forest. The remains of > >> > a > >> > mill foundation can be found quite easily. This is the mine site. > >> > > >> > I don't know if there are records of production from this mine but > >> > there > >> > are shares for the mine company on the wall of the township office in > >> > Wilberforce. > >> > > >> > My brief recon of the property in the mid 90's did not reveal any good > >> > collecting spot, but maybe I did not dig enough.". > >> > > >> > > >> > I hope that this helps. If you are every up this way let me know and > >> > we > >> > can > >> > try to find it. > >> > > >> > Mark Stanley > >> > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Dec 9 17:22:41 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Dec 9 17:22:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush> <000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <493F19E1.9050602@verizon.net> Mark Stanley wrote: > Dear Larry: > > I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own collection > so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is Fluororichterite. > Is there an authoritative reference for that? I'm under the impression the current spelling is fluorrichterite. Don From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Dec 9 17:24:45 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Dec 9 17:24:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush> <000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> I can't find my specimens right now but I have some Fluororichterite with calcite we got in Wilberforce where the calcite fluoresces bright pinkish red under SW UV, so the black Fluororichterite presents a nice contrast. Aloha, Kitty Mark Stanley wrote: > Dear Larry: > > I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own collection > so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is Fluororichterite. > > http://www.mindat.org/min-6952.html > > Send me your address off list and I send a suitable sample to you. > > Take care. > > Mark Stanley > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 9 19:53:43 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 9 19:53:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' Message-ID: <2347EDAE-C66E-11DD-9395-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Very large earthquakes can trigger an increase in activity at nearby volcanoes according to a new study. The controversial findings come from an analysis of records in southern Chile. It showed that up to four times as many volcanic eruptions occurred during the year following very large earthquakes than did so in other years. The work, by a team at the University of Oxford, appears in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters. The researchers say volcanoes lying up to at least 500km away from an earthquake's epicentre were affected. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771890.stm From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 05:15:22 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 05:15:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> Ah, Kitty! It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges without me having to smuggle it in. I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not some feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is often found in feldspar. Cheers Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 2:25 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > I can't find my specimens right now but I have some Fluororichterite > with calcite we got in Wilberforce where the calcite fluoresces bright > pinkish red under SW UV, so the black Fluororichterite presents a nice > contrast. > > Aloha, Kitty > ounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 05:42:56 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 05:43:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' In-Reply-To: <2347EDAE-C66E-11DD-9395-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <2347EDAE-C66E-11DD-9395-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4C34B30BA3C94D678F804145C30BE4CC@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Kreigh, Very intriguing presumption! I wonder if (and that 's one of my more simplistic theories for discussion's sake ;-)) magma would behave like a true fluid when pressure wave pass through it. Would it, just like CO2-saturated water, immediately start to release its dissolved gasses? (water, fluorine, CO2....) This link http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/killerlakes.shtml somewhat translates the idea to volcanic lakes. I'm still working on the X-ray generating scotch tape. I'll use another approach but it gets pretty cosmological too ;-)))))))))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 4:54 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' > > Very large earthquakes can trigger an increase in activity at nearby > volcanoes according to a new study. > > The controversial findings come from an analysis of records in southern > Chile. > > It showed that up to four times as many volcanic eruptions occurred > during the year following very large earthquakes than did so in other > years. > > The work, by a team at the University of Oxford, appears in the journal > Earth and Planetary Science Letters. > > The researchers say volcanoes lying up to at least 500km away from an > earthquake's epicentre were affected. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771890.stm > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 10 06:37:20 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 10 06:37:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' In-Reply-To: <4C34B30BA3C94D678F804145C30BE4CC@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <0CBEAC8D-C6C8-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, I would expect the squeeze and release of pressure waves passing thru the magma would make it more fluid, much like putty gets softer as you work it. If the pressure waves also released dissolved gasses it would certainly give the magma more motivation to go somewhere. Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 08:42 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Kreigh, > > Very intriguing presumption! > I wonder if (and that 's one of my more simplistic theories for > discussion's > sake ;-)) magma would behave like a true fluid when pressure wave pass > through it. > Would it, just like CO2-saturated water, immediately start to release > its > dissolved gasses? (water, fluorine, CO2....) > This link http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/killerlakes.shtml > somewhat translates the idea to volcanic lakes. > > I'm still working on the X-ray generating scotch tape. I'll use another > approach but it gets pretty cosmological too ;-)))))))))) > > Cheers > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >> Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 4:54 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' >> >> Very large earthquakes can trigger an increase in activity at nearby >> volcanoes according to a new study. >> >> The controversial findings come from an analysis of records in >> southern >> Chile. >> >> It showed that up to four times as many volcanic eruptions occurred >> during the year following very large earthquakes than did so in other >> years. >> >> The work, by a team at the University of Oxford, appears in the >> journal >> Earth and Planetary Science Letters. >> >> The researchers say volcanoes lying up to at least 500km away from an >> earthquake's epicentre were affected. >> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771890.stm >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Dec 10 08:25:28 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Dec 10 08:16:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F19E1.9050602@verizon.net> Message-ID: <005801c95ae3$ea2a3340$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> The Glossary of Mineral Species 1995 by Fleischer & Mandario gives the spelling as Fluorrichterite. MinDat does have errors and they gratefully receive information about incorrect spelling, locations, etc. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Mark Stanley wrote: > > Dear Larry: > > > > I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own collection > > so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is Fluororichterite. > > > > > Is there an authoritative reference for that? I'm under the impression > the current spelling is fluorrichterite. > > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 08:20:21 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 08:20:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' In-Reply-To: <0CBEAC8D-C6C8-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <4C34B30BA3C94D678F804145C30BE4CC@AXELDESKTOP> <0CBEAC8D-C6C8-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <9BDEFAE798EE44D2AC25E2EEB6C7CE80@AXELDESKTOP> Kreigh > > I would expect the squeeze and release of pressure waves passing thru > the magma would make it more fluid, much like putty gets softer as you > work it. [Axel] What would be the expanation fort that? I wonder, but then again... I always wonder ;-) > > If the pressure waves also released dissolved gasses it would certainly > give the magma more motivation to go somewhere. [Axel] Is water vapour is squeezed out of magma would that not raise the melting point of it? That, in turn, could lead (I magine) to some sort of phase transition in which some of the magma's least soluble minerals crystallize thus leaving a less viscous magma that can easily flow about. But that's me thinking aloud ;-)))) (I think we need Pete Modreski for this one,,, Are you listening Pete?) Cheers Axel > > On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 08:42 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Hi Kreigh, > > > > Very intriguing presumption! > > I wonder if (and that 's one of my more simplistic theories for > > discussion's > > sake ;-)) magma would behave like a true fluid when pressure wave pass > > through it. > > Would it, just like CO2-saturated water, immediately start to release > > its > > dissolved gasses? (water, fluorine, CO2....) > > This link http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/killerlakes.shtml > > somewhat translates the idea to volcanic lakes. > > > > I'm still working on the X-ray generating scotch tape. I'll use another > > approach but it gets pretty cosmological too ;-)))))))))) > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > >> Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 4:54 > >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >> collectors > >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' > >> > >> Very large earthquakes can trigger an increase in activity at nearby > >> volcanoes according to a new study. > >> > >> The controversial findings come from an analysis of records in > >> southern > >> Chile. > >> > >> It showed that up to four times as many volcanic eruptions occurred > >> during the year following very large earthquakes than did so in other > >> years. > >> > >> The work, by a team at the University of Oxford, appears in the > >> journal > >> Earth and Planetary Science Letters. > >> > >> The researchers say volcanoes lying up to at least 500km away from an > >> earthquake's epicentre were affected. > >> > >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7771890.stm > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Dec 10 08:53:40 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Dec 10 08:44:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32><493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> <113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <007c01c95ae7$daa5bd50$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hello Axel, It is always good to note when fluorescence is not only there but spelled correctly! Carolyn Reynard Fluorescent Mineral Society New York Member ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Ah, Kitty! > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > without me having to smuggle it in. > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not some > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > often found in feldspar. > > Cheers > > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website: > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 2:25 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > > > I can't find my specimens right now but I have some Fluororichterite > > with calcite we got in Wilberforce where the calcite fluoresces bright > > pinkish red under SW UV, so the black Fluororichterite presents a nice > > contrast. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > ounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Dec 10 08:52:24 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Dec 10 08:52:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32><493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> <113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <7F5E6602D0454735B832CC88F8C7A882@Junior> The fluororichterites from the George Earle Farm are definitely in calcite, not feldspar. Very, very simple mineralogy, perhaps 4 species visible without magnification. Sabina's guidebook would suggest that the majority of Bancroft calcite is fluorescent to a certain degree, and it's found all over the place. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Ah, Kitty! > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > without me having to smuggle it in. > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not > some > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > often found in feldspar. > > Cheers > > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website: > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox >> Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 2:25 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite >> >> I can't find my specimens right now but I have some Fluororichterite >> with calcite we got in Wilberforce where the calcite fluoresces bright >> pinkish red under SW UV, so the black Fluororichterite presents a nice >> contrast. >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> > ounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Dec 10 09:59:59 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 10 10:00:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net> <113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <4940039F.1070206@hawaiiantel.net> Yes, Wilberforce is in Ontario, not far from Bancroft. I'm definitely not an expert, but my impression is that feldspar's fluorescence is much more dim and dark than calcite's. And this material with the fluorrichterite is white and just looks more like calcite than feldspars I've seen. Aloha, Kitty Axel Emmermann wrote: > Ah, Kitty! > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > without me having to smuggle it in. > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not some > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > often found in feldspar. > > Cheers > > Axel Emmermann > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 10:05:29 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 10:05:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <4940039F.1070206@hawaiiantel.net> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net><113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> <4940039F.1070206@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: A small drop of vinegar applied to the underside of the specimen is out of the question, I assume ;-)))) Just kidding, it can be calcite as well but I had to know (LOL) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 19:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > Yes, Wilberforce is in Ontario, not far from Bancroft. > > I'm definitely not an expert, but my impression is that feldspar's > fluorescence is much more dim and dark than calcite's. And this > material with the fluorrichterite is white and just looks more like > calcite than feldspars I've seen. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Ah, Kitty! > > > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > > without me having to smuggle it in. > > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not some > > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > > often found in feldspar. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel Emmermann > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 10:05:50 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Dec 10 10:06:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <005801c95ae3$ea2a3340$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <256536.34586.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Fleischer 2008 has it as fluororichterite. Jim Daly --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Carolyn Reynard wrote: From: Carolyn Reynard Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:25 AM The Glossary of Mineral Species 1995 by Fleischer & Mandario gives the spelling as Fluorrichterite. MinDat does have errors and they gratefully receive information about incorrect spelling, locations, etc. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Mark Stanley wrote: > > Dear Larry: > > > > I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own collection > > so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is Fluororichterite. > > > > > Is there an authoritative reference for that? I'm under the impression > the current spelling is fluorrichterite. > > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Dec 10 10:33:47 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Dec 10 10:24:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net><113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> <4940039F.1070206@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <000b01c95af5$d766b690$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> The Fluorrichterite site is in Wilberforce, Ontario. The best known place is a roadside where the white calcite fluoresces a orange. I have collected there several times. Last summer our group was shocked to see the road cut had been bored and chopped from heavy equipment collecting. Frequently the feldspars are fluorescent. The fluorescence of the Feldspars comes in quite a few different reds from pink to a deep velvety red. I have some very bright light blue fluorescening feldspars from both Italy and Pakistan. This blue is close to scheelitte blue. Some times there is a dual fluorescence with the pink and light blue possibly indicating two different feldspars with different activators. There is a blue-purple fluorescence from some feldspars. I have a feldspar that fluoresces light yellow. At this point I do not know what the activator is. So, yes the feldspars fluoresce but not as bright as minerals from Franklin/ Sterling Hill but then again few do fluoresce that vividly. Carolyn Reynard, "New York Feldspar Nut" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Yes, Wilberforce is in Ontario, not far from Bancroft. > > I'm definitely not an expert, but my impression is that feldspar's > fluorescence is much more dim and dark than calcite's. And this > material with the fluorrichterite is white and just looks more like > calcite than feldspars I've seen. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Ah, Kitty! > > > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > > without me having to smuggle it in. > > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not some > > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > > often found in feldspar. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel Emmermann > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Dec 10 10:35:31 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Dec 10 10:26:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite References: <256536.34586.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801c95af6$151d82c0$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Hi Jim, Oh boy! I need to buy the 2008 or 09! Thanks Jim! Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > Fleischer 2008 has it as fluororichterite. > Jim Daly > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > From: Carolyn Reynard > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:25 AM > > The Glossary of Mineral Species 1995 by Fleischer & Mandario gives the > spelling as Fluorrichterite. > > MinDat does have errors and they gratefully receive > information about incorrect spelling, locations, etc. > > Carolyn Reynard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > > > Mark Stanley wrote: > > > Dear Larry: > > > > > > I found that I had several variations in the spelling in my own > collection > > > so I checked mindat and found the proper spelling is > Fluororichterite. > > > > > > > > > Is there an authoritative reference for that? I'm under the > impression > > the current spelling is fluorrichterite. > > > > Don > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 11:51:33 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 11:51:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <007c01c95ae7$daa5bd50$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32> <92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32><493F1A5D.1080008@hawaiiantel.net><113AF4C0494B434EACD53F6DA7ABE3A4@AXELDESKTOP> <007c01c95ae7$daa5bd50$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <81387194430C45BE92D79FE3367842F2@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Carolyn, Ah, you noticed it too ;-))) Well, you don't put fluor(ine) in pastry either.... I'm Belgian and my native tongue is Dutch. The second language here is French. I have to mind my spelling skills all the time ;-))) Cheers Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 17:54 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > Hello Axel, It is always good to note when fluorescence is not only there > but spelled correctly! > > Carolyn Reynard > Fluorescent Mineral Society > New York Member > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:15 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > > > Ah, Kitty! > > > > It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more emerges > > without me having to smuggle it in. > > I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. > > > > Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? > > Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and not > some > > feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the fruorrichterite is > > often found in feldspar. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel Emmermann > > European Regional Vice President of the > > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > > > ========================= > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > > minerals > > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > > My website: > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > > > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 2:25 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite > > > > > > I can't find my specimens right now but I have some Fluororichterite > > > with calcite we got in Wilberforce where the calcite fluoresces bright > > > pinkish red under SW UV, so the black Fluororichterite presents a nice > > > contrast. > > > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > ounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 11:54:25 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 11:54:34 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: References: <26BBD29B402E48149E7BE0A8C0F431F3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Kreigh, > Sticky Tape X-Rays (The Movie) > http://www.nature.com/nature/videoarchive/x-rays/ > Correlation between nanosecond X-ray flashes and stick-slip friction in > peeling tape p1089 > http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/abs/nature07378.html [Axel] The light from the tape, the visible portion I mean, interests me too. If crashing electrons are causing X-rays then the spectrum of the visible light must hold some VERY energetic UV too. I don't believe that breaking the bonds of glue is what causes this. Glue is designed to have large organic molecules become physically entangled, a bit like why rubber is elastic. These bonds are specifically designed NOT to be rigid. Now, very rigid bonds would logically produce higher energies through triboluminescence than flexible bonds. You don't get much more rigid than in silicates, do you? According to http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1997APS..MAR.C1807K this produces three spectral bands peaking at 250, 430 and 620 nm. These are SW UV, blue and orange-red. VERY far from even the softest X-ray. > But I did find that the x-rays produced from the scotch tape have a > power of 15K electronvolts... [Axel] I First thought that was a mistake and they meant 15 eV, which corresponds with 82.66 nm and could be considered (very broadly interpreting the definition of x-rays ;-) as "in the transition zone" between UV and X-rays. Then I saw and heard the number 15 KeV spoken on the video. OK, no more argument: 15 KeV it is. But then you're looking at 0.083 nm which is quite short wave. It would explain why the x-rays are only generated in vacuum. The "hospital" variety X-ray that is used in radiology has a rather long wavelength and travels through your body and air and walls.... This 0.083 nm radiation is so energetic that it immediately ionizes anything that it passes. It will travel a few dozen micrometers through air but then its gets stopped. I work with a rhodium-target X-ray tube of 60 KeV daily and I don't even have to wear a radiation dosimeter. The real question is: where does this energy come from! To illustrate this: an eV is the energy that an electron gets by being accelerated by a potential difference of 1 volt. 15.000 volts.... aaargh Getting 300.000 photons/sec and counting 1 photon per electron could allow you to calculated how many coulombs are involved. If you have the dielectric capacity (farad) of a vacuum you could deduct the electric field involved. Somehow.... > ...so it really is feasible to make an XRD unit, [Axel] if you know how to build the necessary detectors (you only need 5 of those) and build a goniometer that is precise to 1000th of a degree.... or drive nuclear > fusion reactions (even if it takes more energy than you would produce). > Faster unrolling speeds should produce even more energy, at least to a > point. > > This is science you could do at home. A Mason jar will hold a vacuum. > Something to unroll tape could fit inside a Mason jar. Add the vacuum > pump, power supplies, etc., and it should still fit on your dining room > table (any bets the wife would not complain?). I wonder what new > windows to learning x-ray fluorescence would open to amateurs. [Axel] Alas, 0.08 nm is not enough for XRF... you'd have to get below 0.07 nm or 17.7 Kev. Otherwise you'd miss out on the rare earth elements. Cheers Axel From rgangue at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 12:19:11 2008 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Wed Dec 10 12:19:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used Equipment In-Reply-To: <81387194430C45BE92D79FE3367842F2@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <31115.44072.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi All, I was approached at a recent show by a gentleman wanting to sell some polishing equipment his father had. I told him I could try to help him but didn't have idea what it was worth and niether did he. I am hoping to get a ballpark bargain price figure from the list members. It is supposed to be functioning and I will turn them on when isee them. Both are Star Diamond brand. Saw model # 10C Polisher model GP8E Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Stan From zengyrene at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 12:50:31 2008 From: zengyrene at gmail.com (Dick Kelley) Date: Wed Dec 10 12:50:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used Equipment In-Reply-To: <31115.44072.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <81387194430C45BE92D79FE3367842F2@AXELDESKTOP> <31115.44072.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Stan ! Star Diamond was purchased by Barranca Diamond ( http://www.barrancadiamond.com/lap/index.html ) several years back. The EP8 lists there for $2995 but is on sale currently for $1600. There is no current listing for the 10C. They do have a PF10 (a 10 inch power feed saw) that lists with motor and blade for $995 Hope this helps ! Dick On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Stan Perry wrote: > Hi All, > I was approached at a recent show by a gentleman wanting to sell some > polishing equipment his father had. I told him I could try to help him but > didn't have idea what it was worth and niether did he. I am hoping to get a > ballpark bargain price figure from the list members. It is supposed to be > functioning and I will turn them on when isee them. > > Both are Star Diamond brand. > Saw model # 10C > Polisher model GP8E > > Any help is appreciated. > Thanks, > Stan > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. George Washington Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. George Washington --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 12:56:24 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 10 12:56:29 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: References: <26BBD29B402E48149E7BE0A8C0F431F3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: but they showed an X-ray film (looked like a dental film) of someones' thumb so the radiation did penetrate his thumb, a couple of centimeters anyway. But not the bone. Unless that is done by secondary x-rays. BK The "hospital" variety X-ray that is used in radiology has a rather long > wavelength and travels through your body and air and walls.... This 0.083 > nm > radiation is so energetic that it immediately ionizes anything that it > passes. It will travel a few dozen micrometers through air but then its > gets > stopped. I work with a rhodium-target X-ray tube of 60 KeV daily and I > don't > even have to wear a radiation dosimeter. > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Dec 10 14:29:40 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Dec 10 14:30:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used Equipment In-Reply-To: References: <81387194430C45BE92D79FE3367842F2@AXELDESKTOP> <31115.44072.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801c95b16$cac05420$6040fc60$@com> That is for a brand new saw. Used saws are extremely common and therefore cheap. I would expect a Star Diamond 10" saw in good condition to be around $350 (if that), depending on how old it is. Ditto for the polisher (even lower; around $200). I have bought used 10" saws in great shape for $150-$250. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dick Kelley Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:51 PM To: rgangue@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Used Equipment Hey Stan ! Star Diamond was purchased by Barranca Diamond ( http://www.barrancadiamond.com/lap/index.html ) several years back. The EP8 lists there for $2995 but is on sale currently for $1600. There is no current listing for the 10C. They do have a PF10 (a 10 inch power feed saw) that lists with motor and blade for $995 Hope this helps ! Dick On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Stan Perry wrote: > Hi All, > I was approached at a recent show by a gentleman wanting to sell some > polishing equipment his father had. I told him I could try to help him but > didn't have idea what it was worth and niether did he. I am hoping to get a > ballpark bargain price figure from the list members. It is supposed to be > functioning and I will turn them on when isee them. > > Both are Star Diamond brand. > Saw model # 10C > Polisher model GP8E > > Any help is appreciated. > Thanks, > Stan > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. George Washington Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. George Washington --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 10 14:42:27 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 10 14:42:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used Equipment In-Reply-To: <31115.44072.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Barranca bought Star Diamond. You might find the models in their catalog to find the price of new equipment. http://www.barrancadiamond.com/ On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 15:19 America/Detroit, Stan Perry wrote: > Hi All, > I was approached at a recent show by a gentleman wanting to sell some > polishing equipment his father had. I told him I could try to help > him but didn't have idea what it was worth and niether did he. I am > hoping to get a ballpark bargain price figure from the list members. > It is supposed to be functioning and I will turn them on when isee > them. > > Both are Star Diamond brand. > Saw model # 10C > Polisher model GP8E > > Any help is appreciated. > Thanks, > Stan > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 10 15:11:48 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 10 15:11:58 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: References: <26BBD29B402E48149E7BE0A8C0F431F3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Yes, I wondered about that too. My guess that the X-rays are simply crashing into the substance of the tape (from the peeled tape to the roll) and the resulting X-rays are just like bremstrahlung caused by the rapid deceleration of charged particles. In air the electrons would follow a more or less straight path between the "poles" of the potential well by ionizing the air into a conducting channel. In vacuum they cannot do that and the electron have to follow the electro-magnetic field lines. The electrons are thus following paths of different lengths making their acceleration in the field a variable. The spectrum of the resulting X-rays would as a result be something like a Gaussian bell curve, I assume. Pure speculation; of course ;-))) The greatest part of the broad spectrum of X-rays would be absorbed by the Plexiglas of the vacuum chamber. Only the longest waves get through. My estimate is those of about 1 to 10 nm. Secundary X-rays require elements heavier than nitrogen, due to the extremely low yield of XRF by light atoms (they would immediately aborb the photons they emit. The tape and Plexiglas are made up of light elements (C,H,O...) although the glue and anti-oxidants may contain some phosphorus. Chers Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 21:56 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} > > but they showed an X-ray film (looked like a dental film) of someones' thumb > so the radiation did penetrate his thumb, a couple of centimeters anyway. > But not the bone. Unless that is done by secondary x-rays. > > BK > > The "hospital" variety X-ray that is used in radiology has a rather long > > wavelength and travels through your body and air and walls.... This 0.083 > > nm > > radiation is so energetic that it immediately ionizes anything that it > > passes. It will travel a few dozen micrometers through air but then its > > gets > > stopped. I work with a rhodium-target X-ray tube of 60 KeV daily and I > > don't > > even have to wear a radiation dosimeter. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Dec 10 15:50:53 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Dec 10 15:50:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <005801c95ae3$ea2a3340$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> References: <98246B0347274F9899365D94EC46D316@Notebook><003b01c9570e$143fe460$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><94632B67C57242C2AD9D835E4408CAFC@Montana><002001c957c5$173e1c10$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><001d01c957ef$d4325b40$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash><84D4183A1D0147C0879A4D1EAC235092@Goldstein><5CC3E209-FEF9-4AF5-832B-2FC8DED751FC@mc.net><004a01c95a35$173cd900$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><57790BA5B9D14A9596298343C06E4DBD@LarryRush><006501c95a3d$7c5dd980$5741d0d8@b1quvu32><92EC01B01B14484FADBC5F777AFCE0D0@LarryRush><000501c95a5f$11c22960$1864e2d1@b1quvu32> <493F19E1.9050602@verizon.net> <005801c95ae3$ea2a3340$4fe4ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <494055DD.2030702@verizon.net> Carolyn Reynard wrote: > The Glossary of Mineral Species 1995 by Fleischer & Mandario gives the > spelling as Fluorrichterite. Argh. I checked the official IMA list, the reference in which is not consistent with more recent peer-reviewed publications by "amphibole leaders" such as Leake and Hawthorne; the mind boggles. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 10 16:26:52 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 10 16:26:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6846C7B7-C71A-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, My specimen from there is definitely calcite. It glows with a dull reddish orange color, with a few tiny spots of blueish white. I am unable to distinguish the tiny spots from calcite under normal light. Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 13:05 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > A small drop of vinegar applied to the underside of the specimen is > out of > the question, I assume ;-)))) > > Just kidding, it can be calcite as well but I had to know (LOL) > > Cheers > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox >> Verzonden: woensdag 10 december 2008 19:00 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite >> >> Yes, Wilberforce is in Ontario, not far from Bancroft. >> >> I'm definitely not an expert, but my impression is that feldspar's >> fluorescence is much more dim and dark than calcite's. And this >> material with the fluorrichterite is white and just looks more like >> calcite than feldspars I've seen. >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> Axel Emmermann wrote: >>> Ah, Kitty! >>> >>> It warms my heart to notice that the word "fluorescence" once more > emerges >>> without me having to smuggle it in. >>> I saw similar stuff and yours is a good color description. >>> >>> Is that Wilberforce, Ontario? >>> Are you sure that the pinkish red fluorescent stuff is calcite and >>> not > some >>> feldspar? I've read some about those specimens and the >>> fruorrichterite > is >>> often found in feldspar. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel Emmermann >>> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 10 16:58:20 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 10 16:58:20 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Axel, The charge differential between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. Current flow is a couple nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts. http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/ The article goes on to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to equal the output of Cygnus X-1, and notes that the unrolling one roll of tape in space could only be detected within 200 meters. The dielectric constant of vacuum is 1. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html The charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I wonder if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica? Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 14:54 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Kreigh, > >> Sticky Tape X-Rays (The Movie) >> http://www.nature.com/nature/videoarchive/x-rays/ > >> Correlation between nanosecond X-ray flashes and stick-slip friction >> in >> peeling tape p1089 >> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/abs/nature07378.html > > [Axel] The light from the tape, the visible portion I mean, interests > me > too. If crashing electrons are causing X-rays then the spectrum of the > visible light must hold some VERY energetic UV too. > I don't believe that breaking the bonds of glue is what causes this. > Glue is > designed to have large organic molecules become physically entangled, > a bit > like why rubber is elastic. > These bonds are specifically designed NOT to be rigid. Now, very rigid > bonds > would logically produce higher energies through triboluminescence than > flexible bonds. You don't get much more rigid than in silicates, do > you? > According to http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1997APS..MAR.C1807K this > produces > three spectral bands peaking at 250, 430 and 620 nm. These are SW UV, > blue > and orange-red. VERY far from even the softest X-ray. > >> But I did find that the x-rays produced from the scotch tape have a >> power of 15K electronvolts... > > [Axel] I First thought that was a mistake and they meant 15 eV, which > corresponds with 82.66 nm and could be considered (very broadly > interpreting the definition of x-rays ;-) as "in the transition zone" > between UV and X-rays. > Then I saw and heard the number 15 KeV spoken on the video. OK, no more > argument: 15 KeV it is. But then you're looking at 0.083 nm which is > quite > short wave. It would explain why the x-rays are only generated in > vacuum. > The "hospital" variety X-ray that is used in radiology has a rather > long > wavelength and travels through your body and air and walls.... This > 0.083 nm > radiation is so energetic that it immediately ionizes anything that it > passes. It will travel a few dozen micrometers through air but then > its gets > stopped. I work with a rhodium-target X-ray tube of 60 KeV daily and I > don't > even have to wear a radiation dosimeter. > > The real question is: where does this energy come from! > To illustrate this: an eV is the energy that an electron gets by being > accelerated by a potential difference of 1 volt. > 15.000 volts.... aaargh > Getting 300.000 photons/sec and counting 1 photon per electron could > allow > you to calculated how many coulombs are involved. If you have the > dielectric > capacity (farad) of a vacuum you could deduct the electric field > involved. > Somehow.... > > >> ...so it really is feasible to make an XRD unit, > > [Axel] if you know how to build the necessary detectors (you only need > 5 of > those) and build a goniometer that is precise to 1000th of a degree.... > > or drive nuclear >> fusion reactions (even if it takes more energy than you would >> produce). >> Faster unrolling speeds should produce even more energy, at least to a >> point. >> >> This is science you could do at home. A Mason jar will hold a vacuum. >> Something to unroll tape could fit inside a Mason jar. Add the vacuum >> pump, power supplies, etc., and it should still fit on your dining >> room >> table (any bets the wife would not complain?). I wonder what new >> windows to learning x-ray fluorescence would open to amateurs. > [Axel] > Alas, 0.08 nm is not enough for XRF... you'd have to get below 0.07 nm > or > 17.7 Kev. Otherwise you'd miss out on the rare earth elements. > > Cheers > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 10 17:42:41 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 10 17:42:43 2008 Subject: Putty {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' } In-Reply-To: <9BDEFAE798EE44D2AC25E2EEB6C7CE80@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <00070787-C725-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> You make putty by crushing Calcite to powder and mixing it with boiled linseed oil. Predating caulk by decades, window putty was designed to make a seal between dissimilar materials (glass and wood), to remain flexible for a long time, and to be paintable. Putty dries by oxidation of the linseed oil. It takes about a day for the surface to dry enough to be paintable, which slows further drying. The linseed oil acts as a glue and forms weak cross bonds as it sits. By kneading it you break some of the cross bonds and it becomes more pliable. So the next time you glaze a window, give thanks to the calcite specimen that was sacrificed to make the putty. But don't put the putty under a black light -- it might glow if the original Calcite was fluorescent. Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 11:20 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Kreigh > >> >> I would expect the squeeze and release of pressure waves passing thru >> the magma would make it more fluid, much like putty gets softer as you >> work it. > [Axel] > What would be the expanation fort that? I wonder, but then again... I > always > wonder ;-) From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Dec 10 18:12:30 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Dec 10 18:12:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Civil War Tombstone Message-ID: <03291660A19C414BAAA70B2D518D2748@Goldstein> I don't remember whether the post about the civil war headstone was on this or the Paleolist. http://www.nypost.com/seven/11062008/news/regionalnews/si_rock_of_ages_137336.htm I sent the link to Bill Ausich a crinoid expert. He identified it as Actinocrinites, probably A. gibsoni. The crinoid is associated with Middle Mississippian Crawfordsville-age strata, probably from Indiana. The general's tombstone was not made from rock indigenous to New York! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 11 00:56:09 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 11 00:56:19 2008 Subject: Putty {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' } In-Reply-To: <00070787-C725-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9BDEFAE798EE44D2AC25E2EEB6C7CE80@AXELDESKTOP> <00070787-C725-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: . But don't put the putty > under a black light -- it might glow if the original Calcite was > fluorescent. As may the lineseed... again we learned something ;-))) I always thought it was clay and some petroleum derivate but then I remembered : that's plasticine, the stuff kids play with. Putty doesn't do much under a blacklight, luckily for me. It would have spoiled many a photo of fluorescent minerals. Thanks Kreigh. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: donderdag 11 december 2008 2:43 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Putty {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes can 'spark eruptions' } > > You make putty by crushing Calcite to powder and mixing it with boiled > linseed oil. Predating caulk by decades, window putty was designed to > make a seal between dissimilar materials (glass and wood), to remain > flexible for a long time, and to be paintable. > > Putty dries by oxidation of the linseed oil. It takes about a day for > the surface to dry enough to be paintable, which slows further drying. > > The linseed oil acts as a glue and forms weak cross bonds as it sits. > By kneading it you break some of the cross bonds and it becomes more > pliable. > > So the next time you glaze a window, give thanks to the calcite > specimen that was sacrificed to make the putty. But don't put the putty > under a black light -- it might glow if the original Calcite was > fluorescent. > > Kreigh > > > > > On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 11:20 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Kreigh > > > >> > >> I would expect the squeeze and release of pressure waves passing thru > >> the magma would make it more fluid, much like putty gets softer as you > >> work it. > > [Axel] > > What would be the expanation fort that? I wonder, but then again... I > > always > > wonder ;-) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 11 03:45:27 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 11 03:45:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <6846C7B7-C71A-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <6846C7B7-C71A-11DD-8529-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <215BC96BABE9456B83CB0EEF2B0F0AD5@AXELDESKTOP> Kreigh, Kitty > > My specimen from there is definitely calcite. It glows with a dull > reddish orange color, with a few tiny spots of blueish white. [Axel] [Axel] Do these blueish white fluorescing spots exhibit any phosphorescence (also bluish white)? Also: is the calcite phosphorescent? Typical Mn-Pb activated calcite show a short but obvious phosphorescent flash if you remove the UV-source fast enough. I found that quite some REE-minerals are found in de Wilberforce mines (Allanite, Euxenite-(Y), Melanocerite-(Ce), Ancylite, Monazite, Pierririte-(Ce), Stillwellite-(Ce)..... Look at de Levinson modifiers that point towards Cerium. There seems to be some abundance of cerium there. I would not be surprised if those spots glowed pink under LW UV and had a strong PH after SW-UV ;-))) Just like Terlingua-Type calcite. It's all much "wet finger work" (roughly translated Antwerp slang for "guessing") but I would think that Mn-Pb activated calcite is more orange-red, whereas Ce (most likely together with Eu) causes a more pinkish to purple tinged red (the latter often referred to as "deep cherry velvety red". Kitty describes her specimen as red with a pink tinge while you say orange with a reddish tinge. Would that suggest that the "master-color" is perceived differently by you and Kitty. Orange and red are close and there is no clear dividing line to be drawn between them. Maybe there ARE two different fluorescencing calcite types in Wilberforce? Cheers Axel From smkell45 at aol.com Thu Dec 11 04:42:09 2008 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 11 04:42:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Civil War Tombstone In-Reply-To: <03291660A19C414BAAA70B2D518D2748@Goldstein> References: <03291660A19C414BAAA70B2D518D2748@Goldstein> Message-ID: <8CB29A50453924F-BAC-2BD@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Goldstein To: Rockhounds List Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 9:12 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Civil War Tombstone I don't remember whether the post about the civil war headstone was on this or the Paleolist. http://www.nypost.com/seven/11062008/news/regionalnews/si_rock_of_ages_137336.htm I sent the link to Bill Ausich a crinoid expert. He identified it as Actinocrinites, probably A. gibsoni. The crinoid is associated with Middle Mississippian Crawfordsville-age strata, probably from Indiana. The general's tombstone was not made from rock indigenous to New York! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Hi. As I was reading this article I wondered about the ages given for the crinoids. ?Did the 220 million years mean that that species lived that long and were now extinct? I thought that crinoids were still around? Anyone know what fossils were identified in "granite".smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Dec 11 06:32:06 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 11 06:37:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Civil War Tombstone In-Reply-To: <8CB29A50453924F-BAC-2BD@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> References: <03291660A19C414BAAA70B2D518D2748@Goldstein> <8CB29A50453924F-BAC-2BD@Webmail-mg08.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB29B46086B017-1534-691@WEBMAIL-MY02.sysops.aol.com> The tombstone was limestone, not granite, and yes, crinoids still exist today. The common name is sea lillies. Crinoids have been in the fossil record since Devonian times. Alan, it was on the Paleolist forum. dave -----Original Message----- From: smkell45@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 7:42 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Civil War Tombstone Hi. As I was reading this article I wondered about the ages given for the crinoids. ?Did the 220 million years mean that that species lived that long and were now extinct? I thought that crinoids were still around? Anyone know what fossils were identified in "granite".smkell From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 08:25:26 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu Dec 11 08:25:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crinoid Videos was Civil War Tombstone In-Reply-To: <8CB29B46086B017-1534-691@WEBMAIL-MY02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <236450.91245.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> > what fossils were identified in "granite"? smkell I think the confusion might stem from the fact that everyone but rockhounds take most all rocks for granite neyt neyt neyt (granted...get it?)... Here is a video of a true crinoid apparently "walking/undulating" along a sea floor. A deepsea submersible caught this crinoid "migrating" but the holdfast is not visible so we don't know if it was just knocked loose or some instinctive release of the holdfast to escape. Perhaps, in time, we'll have more evidence. Crinoid Lecture Parts 1 and 2. The basket or feather starfish is thought by some to have evolved off the crinoid line and not starfish. Here are some YouTUbe links to feather stars, there are many more: Eman --- On Thu, 12/11/08, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > The tombstone was limestone, not granite, and yes, > crinoids still exist today. The common name is sea lillies. > Crinoids have been in the fossil record since Devonian > times. Alan, it was on the Paleolist forum. > dave > > From: smkell45@aol.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 11 09:38:36 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 11 09:38:48 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12CD742B9B9B482487BB1C54168C5BF4@AXELDESKTOP> Kreigh > The charge differential between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. > Current flow is a couple nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts. > > http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/ [Axel] The highest voltage ever generated by triboelectric means is 25.4 million volts. But that was a special version of a Vander Graaff generator. 300.000 volts is respectable indeed but one has to wonder: why doesn't the discharge happen long before that voltage is reached? Certainly when you think about the minute distance over which the electrons travel: 2/1000 inch. Even when the charge is measured in nanocoulombs there needs to be a threshold value is exceeded before each burst can happen. > The article goes on to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to > equal the output of Cygnus X-1 [Axel] AAAARGH, why would you want to do that????? We have an energy company called "Electrabel" which does pretty much the same... suck up all your money, give a little energy in return and grow fat in the process ;-))) , and notes that the unrolling one roll > of tape in space could only be detected within 200 meters. [Axel] That 's Boltzmaniacal thinking ;-)))) > The dielectric constant of vacuum is 1. > > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html > > The charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I > wonder if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica? [Axel] I don't think you necessarily need to break bonds. Peeling a book of mica is also not breaking bonds, is it? More like interlamellar forces... I'm not really sure here? Axel > > On Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008, at 14:54 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Kreigh, > > > >> Sticky Tape X-Rays (The Movie) > >> http://www.nature.com/nature/videoarchive/x-rays/ > > > >> Correlation between nanosecond X-ray flashes and stick-slip friction > >> in > >> peeling tape p1089 > >> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v455/n7216/abs/nature07378.html > > > > [Axel] The light from the tape, the visible portion I mean, interests > > me > > too. If crashing electrons are causing X-rays then the spectrum of the > > visible light must hold some VERY energetic UV too. > > I don't believe that breaking the bonds of glue is what causes this. > > Glue is > > designed to have large organic molecules become physically entangled, > > a bit > > like why rubber is elastic. > > These bonds are specifically designed NOT to be rigid. Now, very rigid > > bonds > > would logically produce higher energies through triboluminescence than > > flexible bonds. You don't get much more rigid than in silicates, do > > you? > > According to http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1997APS..MAR.C1807K this > > produces > > three spectral bands peaking at 250, 430 and 620 nm. These are SW UV, > > blue > > and orange-red. VERY far from even the softest X-ray. > > > >> But I did find that the x-rays produced from the scotch tape have a > >> power of 15K electronvolts... > > > > [Axel] I First thought that was a mistake and they meant 15 eV, which > > corresponds with 82.66 nm and could be considered (very broadly > > interpreting the definition of x-rays ;-) as "in the transition zone" > > between UV and X-rays. > > Then I saw and heard the number 15 KeV spoken on the video. OK, no more > > argument: 15 KeV it is. But then you're looking at 0.083 nm which is > > quite > > short wave. It would explain why the x-rays are only generated in > > vacuum. > > The "hospital" variety X-ray that is used in radiology has a rather > > long > > wavelength and travels through your body and air and walls.... This > > 0.083 nm > > radiation is so energetic that it immediately ionizes anything that it > > passes. It will travel a few dozen micrometers through air but then > > its gets > > stopped. I work with a rhodium-target X-ray tube of 60 KeV daily and I > > don't > > even have to wear a radiation dosimeter. > > > > The real question is: where does this energy come from! > > To illustrate this: an eV is the energy that an electron gets by being > > accelerated by a potential difference of 1 volt. > > 15.000 volts.... aaargh > > Getting 300.000 photons/sec and counting 1 photon per electron could > > allow > > you to calculated how many coulombs are involved. If you have the > > dielectric > > capacity (farad) of a vacuum you could deduct the electric field > > involved. > > Somehow.... > > > > > >> ...so it really is feasible to make an XRD unit, > > > > [Axel] if you know how to build the necessary detectors (you only need > > 5 of > > those) and build a goniometer that is precise to 1000th of a degree.... > > > > or drive nuclear > >> fusion reactions (even if it takes more energy than you would > >> produce). > >> Faster unrolling speeds should produce even more energy, at least to a > >> point. > >> > >> This is science you could do at home. A Mason jar will hold a vacuum. > >> Something to unroll tape could fit inside a Mason jar. Add the vacuum > >> pump, power supplies, etc., and it should still fit on your dining > >> room > >> table (any bets the wife would not complain?). I wonder what new > >> windows to learning x-ray fluorescence would open to amateurs. > > [Axel] > > Alas, 0.08 nm is not enough for XRF... you'd have to get below 0.07 nm > > or > > 17.7 Kev. Otherwise you'd miss out on the rare earth elements. > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 11 17:26:51 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 11 17:26:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: <215BC96BABE9456B83CB0EEF2B0F0AD5@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Axel, The blue-white spots are blue-white under both LW and SW, and they are also phosphorescent blue-white under both (easily a half second). If the reddish orange (under SW) calcite is phosphorescent it is very fast. I was left with the impression of a brief light green phosphorescence, but it may be an optical artifact of my eyes/brain. I would be surprised if specimens taken from different sections of the occurrence (either geographically, or in time) didn't have variations in trace elements/minerals. I would also expect some variation between any two observers of a given specimen. Amazing how my list of unknowns keeps getting longer. Kreigh On Thursday, Dec 11, 2008, at 06:45 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Kreigh, Kitty >> >> My specimen from there is definitely calcite. It glows with a dull >> reddish orange color, with a few tiny spots of blueish white. > > [Axel] > [Axel] Do these blueish white fluorescing spots exhibit any > phosphorescence > (also bluish white)? > Also: is the calcite phosphorescent? > Typical Mn-Pb activated calcite show a short but obvious phosphorescent > flash if you remove the UV-source fast enough. > I found that quite some REE-minerals are found in de Wilberforce mines > (Allanite, Euxenite-(Y), Melanocerite-(Ce), Ancylite, Monazite, > Pierririte-(Ce), Stillwellite-(Ce)..... > Look at de Levinson modifiers that point towards Cerium. There seems > to be > some abundance of cerium there. > I would not be surprised if those spots glowed pink under LW UV and > had a > strong PH after SW-UV ;-))) Just like Terlingua-Type calcite. > It's all much "wet finger work" (roughly translated Antwerp slang for > "guessing") but I would think that Mn-Pb activated calcite is more > orange-red, whereas Ce (most likely together with Eu) causes a more > pinkish > to purple tinged red (the latter often referred to as "deep cherry > velvety > red". > Kitty describes her specimen as red with a pink tinge while you say > orange > with a reddish tinge. Would that suggest that the "master-color" is > perceived differently by you and Kitty. > Orange and red are close and there is no clear dividing line to be > drawn > between them. > > Maybe there ARE two different fluorescencing calcite types in > Wilberforce? > > Cheers > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 11 18:49:57 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 11 18:49:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal Message-ID: <8FC5EFCF-C7F7-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> I was contacted on behalf of the Railroad Club in Traverse City today. Their clubhouse is a refurbished caboose with a coal burning pot belly stove. They are looking for a supplier of coal willing to sell bushel basket to pickup truck loads so they can keep it warm for meetings. Long story of how they connected to me in Grand Rapids (it is a small world), but I would like to help them out. I found one supplier, but their minimum quantity is a railroad car load, and the club can't afford it (or store it). Coal used to be a heading in the yellow pages. I remember visiting relatives as a child and helping stoke their coal furnace in the basement. My elementary school had a coal fired boiler. There were several dealers in town. It was common. My fireplace was designed for coal, and my house was heated by it 80 years ago (my basement office is in the old coal bin). I've still got a wheelbarrow full of Anthracite in the garage, but use it sparingly these days; I have not been able to find it locally for at least ten years (since the dealer seven blocks away closed up shop). Does anyone know where I could buy coal in small lots? The railroad club has given me a new reason to look for a supplier in Michigan. Thanks! Kreigh From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Dec 11 19:01:33 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:02:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal In-Reply-To: <8FC5EFCF-C7F7-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <8FC5EFCF-C7F7-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004701c95c05$f0c230e0$d24692a0$@com> You can get it at feed stores, fuel suppliers, etc. People around here don't burn it but in the Northeast it is common to have a coal-burning stove. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:50 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal I was contacted on behalf of the Railroad Club in Traverse City today. Their clubhouse is a refurbished caboose with a coal burning pot belly stove. They are looking for a supplier of coal willing to sell bushel basket to pickup truck loads so they can keep it warm for meetings. Long story of how they connected to me in Grand Rapids (it is a small world), but I would like to help them out. I found one supplier, but their minimum quantity is a railroad car load, and the club can't afford it (or store it). Coal used to be a heading in the yellow pages. I remember visiting relatives as a child and helping stoke their coal furnace in the basement. My elementary school had a coal fired boiler. There were several dealers in town. It was common. My fireplace was designed for coal, and my house was heated by it 80 years ago (my basement office is in the old coal bin). I've still got a wheelbarrow full of Anthracite in the garage, but use it sparingly these days; I have not been able to find it locally for at least ten years (since the dealer seven blocks away closed up shop). Does anyone know where I could buy coal in small lots? The railroad club has given me a new reason to look for a supplier in Michigan. Thanks! Kreigh -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Dec 11 19:24:05 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:24:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal References: <8FC5EFCF-C7F7-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <9F8F96B6DF3546B58F4ABA642E337E10@Junior> Any local blacksmiths? They buy it by the railcar load and I'd bet would be happy to help. Arts colleges teaching blacksmithing are another possibility. There's a big blacksmiths guild, google it up and find out who's doing what in snowy Michigan. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal >I was contacted on behalf of the Railroad Club in Traverse City today. >Their clubhouse is a refurbished caboose with a coal burning pot belly >stove. They are looking for a supplier of coal willing to sell bushel >basket to pickup truck loads so they can keep it warm for meetings. > > Long story of how they connected to me in Grand Rapids (it is a small > world), but I would like to help them out. I found one supplier, but their > minimum quantity is a railroad car load, and the club can't afford it (or > store it). > > Coal used to be a heading in the yellow pages. I remember visiting > relatives as a child and helping stoke their coal furnace in the basement. > My elementary school had a coal fired boiler. There were several dealers > in town. It was common. > > My fireplace was designed for coal, and my house was heated by it 80 years > ago (my basement office is in the old coal bin). I've still got a > wheelbarrow full of Anthracite in the garage, but use it sparingly these > days; I have not been able to find it locally for at least ten years > (since the dealer seven blocks away closed up shop). > > Does anyone know where I could buy coal in small lots? The railroad club > has given me a new reason to look for a supplier in Michigan. > > Thanks! > > Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:26:29 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:26:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal In-Reply-To: <9F8F96B6DF3546B58F4ABA642E337E10@Junior> References: <8FC5EFCF-C7F7-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <9F8F96B6DF3546B58F4ABA642E337E10@Junior> Message-ID: There should be a local wood burning stove store. Some of those will burn coal or wood and I'd guess they know of a local supplier. Check the Yellow pages. I was going to suggest the RR track outside a coal burning power plant, but maybe not a good idea. BK On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 22:24, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Any local blacksmiths? They buy it by the railcar load and I'd bet would be > happy to help. Arts colleges teaching blacksmithing are another possibility. > There's a big blacksmiths guild, google it up and find out who's doing what > in snowy Michigan. > > T > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 9:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal > > > I was contacted on behalf of the Railroad Club in Traverse City today. >> Their clubhouse is a refurbished caboose with a coal burning pot belly >> stove. They are looking for a supplier of coal willing to sell bushel basket >> to pickup truck loads so they can keep it warm for meetings. >> >> Long story of how they connected to me in Grand Rapids (it is a small >> world), but I would like to help them out. I found one supplier, but their >> minimum quantity is a railroad car load, and the club can't afford it (or >> store it). >> >> Coal used to be a heading in the yellow pages. I remember visiting >> relatives as a child and helping stoke their coal furnace in the basement. >> My elementary school had a coal fired boiler. There were several dealers in >> town. It was common. >> >> My fireplace was designed for coal, and my house was heated by it 80 years >> ago (my basement office is in the old coal bin). I've still got a >> wheelbarrow full of Anthracite in the garage, but use it sparingly these >> days; I have not been able to find it locally for at least ten years (since >> the dealer seven blocks away closed up shop). >> >> Does anyone know where I could buy coal in small lots? The railroad club >> has given me a new reason to look for a supplier in Michigan. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:27:35 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:27:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape Message-ID: To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> Subject: Re: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages}> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:58:20 -0500> > Axel,> > The charge differential between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. > Current flow is a couple nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts.> > http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/> > The article goes on to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to > equal the output of Cygnus X-1, and notes that the unrolling one roll > of tape in space could only be detected within 200 meters.> > The dielectric constant of vacuum is 1.> > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html> > The charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I > wonder if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica?> > Kreigh> > I wonder if similar effects are not created when splitting, or spreading the cleavage of, rocks such as shale, slate, mica, and other layered rocks and minerals, even limestone. Visible light is a form of energy, as is heat, of course, and visible sparks are very common when cutting and polishing many varieties of stone material. I strongly suspect that minute amounts of energy in many forms, including x-rays, is released in most mechanical operations. It would be more surprising to me if this is not so. Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:34:56 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:35:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And where the spacing disappeared to....The Twilight Zone maybe... Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> Subject: Re: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages}> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:58:20 -0500> > Axel,> > The charge differential between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. > Current flow is a couple nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts.> > http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/> > The article goes on to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to > equal the output of Cygnus X-1, and notes that the unrolling one roll > of tape in space could only be detected within 200 meters.> > The dielectric constant of vacuum is 1.> > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html> > The charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I > wonder if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica?> > Kreigh> > I wonder if similar effects are not created when splitting, or spreading the cleavage of, rocks such as shale, slate, mica, and other layered rocks and minerals, even limestone. Visible light is a form of energy, as is heat, of course, and visible sparks are very common when cutting and polishing many varieties of stone material. I strongly suspect that minute amounts of energy in many forms, including x-rays, is released in most mechanical operations. It would be more surprising to me if this is not so. Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:40:31 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:40:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a nylon run followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a science fair project. BK On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 22:27, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> Subject: > Re: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages}> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:58:20 -0500> > Axel,> > The charge differential > between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. > Current flow is a couple > nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts.> > > http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/> > The article goes on > to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to > equal the output of > Cygnus X-1, and notes that the unrolling one roll > of tape in space could > only be detected within 200 meters.> > The dielectric constant of vacuum is > 1.> > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html> > The > charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I > wonder > if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica?> > Kreigh> > I > wonder if similar effects are not created when splitting, or spreading the > cleavage of, rocks such as shale, slate, mica, and other layered rocks and > minerals, even limestone. Visible light is a form of energy, as is heat, of > course, and visible sparks are very common when cutting and polishing many > varieties of stone material. I strongly suspect that minute amounts of > energy in many forms, including x-rays, is released in most mechanical > operations. It would be more surprising to me if this is not so. Glenn > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 19:40:49 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:40:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: run = rug On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 22:40, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a nylon run > followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a > science fair project. > > BK > > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 22:27, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > >> >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> Subject: >> Re: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages}> >> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:58:20 -0500> > Axel,> > The charge differential >> between the tape surfaces is 300,000 volts. > Current flow is a couple >> nanoamps, and x-ray power is 2 nanowatts.> > >> http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0408/scotch/> > The article goes on >> to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to > equal the output of >> Cygnus X-1, and notes that the unrolling one roll > of tape in space could >> only be detected within 200 meters.> > The dielectric constant of vacuum is >> 1.> > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html> > The >> charge energy must be coming from the breaking of a lot of bonds. I > wonder >> if you could get similar charges from peeling a book of mica?> > Kreigh> > I >> wonder if similar effects are not created when splitting, or spreading the >> cleavage of, rocks such as shale, slate, mica, and other layered rocks and >> minerals, even limestone. Visible light is a form of energy, as is heat, of >> course, and visible sparks are very common when cutting and polishing many >> varieties of stone material. I strongly suspect that minute amounts of >> energy in many forms, including x-rays, is released in most mechanical >> operations. It would be more surprising to me if this is not so. Glenn >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 11 19:44:56 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 11 19:44:40 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: <12CD742B9B9B482487BB1C54168C5BF4@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <3DE7C618-C7FF-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, I thought you would enjoy the tie to cosmology. The image of a ball of tape the size of the orbit of Mars brought a smile to my face. I like folks who think big. I thought it was a great article. Connecting the scotch tape phenomena to the rocks orbiting the outer planets turned my smile into a big grin. I like concepts that scale. It is always good to think outside of our planet. The Universe normally works the same at all scales if you understand it. I do try. I have hopes of collecting some of those rocks before I die. Cheers! Kreigh On Thursday, Dec 11, 2008, at 12:38 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> The article goes on to compute how much scotch tape would be needed to >> equal the output of Cygnus X-1 > > [Axel] AAAARGH, why would you want to do that????? We have an energy > company > called "Electrabel" which does pretty much the same... suck up all your > money, give a little energy in return and grow fat in the process ;-))) > > , and notes that the unrolling one roll >> of tape in space could only be detected within 200 meters. > > [Axel] That 's Boltzmaniacal thinking ;-)))) > >> The dielectric constant of vacuum is 1. >> >> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/tables/diel.html >> From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Dec 11 20:30:39 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Dec 11 20:30:44 2008 Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] Crinoid Videos was Civil War Tombstone In-Reply-To: <236450.91245.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <8CB29B46086B017-1534-691@WEBMAIL-MY02.sysops.aol.com> <236450.91245.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great links! Highly educational and interesting. And other links all around these on you tube. Thanks Elton! Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:25:26 -0800> From: mstreman53@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Crinoid Videos was Civil War Tombstone> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > > what fossils were identified in "granite"? smkell> > I think the confusion might stem from the fact that everyone but rockhounds take most all rocks for granite neyt neyt neyt (granted...get it?)...> > Here is a video of a true crinoid apparently "walking/undulating" along a sea floor. A deepsea submersible caught this crinoid "migrating" but the holdfast is not visible so we don't know if it was just knocked loose or some instinctive release of the holdfast to escape. Perhaps, in time, we'll have more evidence. > > > Crinoid Lecture Parts 1 and 2.> > > > The basket or feather starfish is thought by some to have evolved off the crinoid line and not starfish. Here are some YouTUbe links to feather stars, there are many more:> > > > > Eman> --- On Thu, 12/11/08, betdav97@aol.com wrote:> > The tombstone was limestone, not granite, and yes,> > crinoids still exist today. The common name is sea lillies.> > Crinoids have been in the fossil record since Devonian> > times. Alan, it was on the Paleolist forum.> > dave> >> > From: smkell45@aol.com> > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 12 02:31:40 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 12 02:32:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9860AF5090CF489BA6E7347124721C29@AXELDESKTOP> Are you trying to tell us that you DON'T have one of those X-ray glasses from back in the early sixties??? Dragging your feet, hey? That will get you : 1) AKITA from your boss at work 2) AKITA from the wife at home A nasty lick when you finally get grounded. Only if you can scuff in a vacuum ;-)))) Cheers Axel > It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a nylon run > followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a > science fair project. > > BK From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 12 02:37:44 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 12 02:37:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: <9860AF5090CF489BA6E7347124721C29@AXELDESKTOP> References: <9860AF5090CF489BA6E7347124721C29@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <2E5520D0A86646639524C17F5CC55F02@AXELDESKTOP> Lick = kick Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Axel Emmermann > Verzonden: vrijdag 12 december 2008 11:32 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape > > Are you trying to tell us that you DON'T have one of those X-ray glasses > from back in the early sixties??? > Dragging your feet, hey? > That will get you : > 1) AKITA from your boss at work > 2) AKITA from the wife at home > A nasty lick when you finally get grounded. > > Only if you can scuff in a vacuum ;-)))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a nylon run > > followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a > > science fair project. > > > > BK > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From BNMJEFF at aol.com Fri Dec 12 03:17:03 2008 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 12 03:17:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coal Message-ID: Being a railroad club, I would hope they have already thought to try and contact any local tourist railroads that run steam engines. I am sure the RR would be happy to sell them some coal... Jeff (RR fan) **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 12 03:47:23 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 12 03:47:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluororichterite In-Reply-To: References: <215BC96BABE9456B83CB0EEF2B0F0AD5@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <774DF6541DE54EB1B02FF85C78E73633@AXELDESKTOP> Kreigh > The blue-white spots are blue-white under both LW and SW, and they are > also phosphorescent blue-white under both (easily a half second). [Axel] That may be indicative of REE. Spots may come from small crystals of whateverite-(REE) that are replaced by calcite. The REE are then are concentrated very locally. We have done a survey of the Royal Belgian Institute of Natural History (the non-public collection of Belgian minerals) and have been looking at some 12.000 specimens that were collected from 1900 until recent times. Some of the old calcite specimens from the south of Belgium fluoresce a golden orange with weird spots of lilac (pinkish violet) under LW. The spots turn blue under SW and have a strong phosphorescence that lasts seconds. Identical to the Terlingua calcite specimens. > If the reddish orange (under SW) calcite is phosphorescent it is very > fast. [Axel] Yes, Mn + Pb gives really more of a short flash than a clearly observable PH. I would estimate that it lasts for maybe 1/10 to 3/10 of a second. I was left with the impression of a brief light green > phosphorescence, but it may be an optical artifact of my eyes/brain. [Axel] Green is the complementary color of red. If you 've been staring at a bright red fluorescence your eyes may retain the afterimage which you would naturally perceive to be in the opposite color: green. If the activator is manganese (with lead as a co-activator) you would almost certainly see the difference. Try it out with a Sterling Hill calcite or a Peruvian manganocalcite. I'm not sure that manganese with another than lead co activator would display this PH-flash. I just went downstairs for a look-see and behold: I have two specimens from Terlingua. Both have strong pink fluo under LW and blue fluo and PH under SW. Same is true for 3 calcite specimens from Mexico (Nuovo Leon and such). In LW there is no clear red flash as with the calcite activated by Mn and Pb. Ph is to fast or weak to be seen with the lamps on (by pulling the rock into a dark corner quickly). By switching off the lamps with eye closed until just after killing them, I can see a faint greenish glow which could indeed be ph. It was VERY clear in the Terlingua specimens, which are known to have a high REE content. The Mexican cleavage rhombs were much dimmer. One word of caution: blacklight lamps don't die abruptly... the ionized gas in the tube recombines with electrons over a short time. During that time the lamps emit UV and the PH of the specimen may in fact be weak fluorescence. You would need to physically shield the specimen from the lamp to discern fluorescence from phosphorescence. Second word of warning: very low levels of light can only stimulate the most sensitive cells of the retina. These see green so any weak ph would appear to be green but should really be measured with a spectrometer. Could as well be blue or yellow.... > I would be surprised if specimens taken from different sections of the > occurrence (either geographically, or in time) didn't have variations > in trace elements/minerals. [Axel] True I would also expect some variation between > any two observers of a given specimen. [Axel] Tell me about it ;-))))) > Amazing how my list of unknowns keeps getting longer. [Axel] Eventually it'll get shorter... To about 4 unknowns 1) Who am I? 2) Were am I? 3) Do I need to go to the toilet or did I just go? 4) Did I get there in time? From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 12 06:24:59 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Dec 12 06:28:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Private Mineral specimen collection for sale (Harry Foy from Belfast, Ireland) Message-ID: <9F01D7BF09C34C618499A4DA67B0A90E@LarryRush> Forwarded to the Rockhounds list from Harry Foy..................... ----- Original Message ----- From: Mineral Collection To: Mineral Collection Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: Private Mineral specimen collection for sale (Harry Foy from Belfast, Ireland) Hi Private Mineral specimen collection for sale. The Harry Foy Collection Please forgive the direct approach regarding this important mineral specimen collection sale. Details of this opportunity can be found by following this link. Over the past 30-40 years my father has gained considerable notoriety amongst mineral collectors particularly with his knowledge around the Irish Zeolites. He now wants to dispose of his very varied collection and is offering it for sale. Details along with photographs can be found on his new site. http://www.theharryfoycollection.co.uk If this is not of interest to you please ignore the email, there is no need to reply. Alternatively please pass it on to a colleague who may be interested in it. Harry Foy Jnr. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rhinorth at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 06:36:02 2008 From: rhinorth at hotmail.com (Robert Betty Thomson) Date: Fri Dec 12 06:36:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bead Mill Message-ID: Hello Everyone: I sent a letter a few weeks ago if any body had some information on a bead mill/. It is an older style used with a drill press. Does any body know how much grit to use do we use water along with it. It was donated to us and we have no instructions Thanks for your help Robert & Betty _________________________________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 12 08:06:05 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 12 08:06:25 2008 Subject: X-rays from scotch tape {was: Re: [Rockhounds] flashing cleavages} In-Reply-To: <3DE7C618-C7FF-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <12CD742B9B9B482487BB1C54168C5BF4@AXELDESKTOP> <3DE7C618-C7FF-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <5B0BD96DF6324B2A93F843751B68D0A2@AXELDESKTOP> Kreigh, > > I thought you would enjoy the tie to cosmology. The image of a ball of > tape the size of the orbit of Mars brought a smile to my face. I like > folks who think big. I thought it was a great article. [Axel] Yeah, but I feel they missed a chance when they wrote: "The average power observed from the Scotch tape used in the UCLA experiment was about 2 nanowatts. This means that about a thousand trillion trillion trillion (1039) rolls peeling at once would be needed. If all the rolls were packed tightly together, they would fill a volume roughly equal to the volume of a sphere that encompasses the orbit of Mars." [Axel] That is one serious supply of adhesive tape. so serious in fact that I wonder: 1) would such a gigantic mass not implode to form a black hole? 2) Would it be sticky enough to stop the accelerating expansion of the universe? Could more tape save us from being ripped quark from quark. I've looked up and down, explored this charmingly strange problem from top to bottom. (a bit over the top, no?) > Connecting the scotch tape phenomena to the rocks orbiting the outer > planets turned my smile into a big grin. I like concepts that scale. [Axel] Oh yeah, size matters (LOL) > > It is always good to think outside of our planet. The Universe normally > works the same at all scales if you understand it. I do try. [Axel] Yes, it's only the appearances that may deceive us ;-) > I have hopes of collecting some of those rocks before I die. [Axel] Too clastic for me... Not enough fluorescence. Gimme a nice hydrothermal vein of a high grade metamorphous chunk o' rock anytime. [Axel] Cheers Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 12 16:38:14 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 12 16:39:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... Message-ID: Fortunately the backed off on 18 to 30 inches of snow, down to "up to 10 inches" by Saturday morning, but they also said no snow until after 10 tonight, and it started snowing at 2pm! The storm coming in is supposed to turn blizzardy Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday the temperature is supposed to drop, and we'll have 3-4 nights of -6F to -7F. (High's of 7-10 during the day - yay! lol) Last year around this time, someone sent a link to the list on ice crystals, looking at 'em in situ and sort of growing them I think (but the growing of them might just have been something I got from a sublink, since I obsessed on it for a minute.) I can't find that link. Does someone have it? I'm in sort of the "have lemons, make lemonade" state of mind. I figure I might as well have some crystal-growing fun with these awful temps! (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, please let me know - I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems to work, and this year, darn it, I wanna build a snow chapel, with colored stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about it for 5-10 years!) Thanks, Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 17:17:28 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 12 17:17:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Use boiled water which degasses the water. BK On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 19:38, Julie Siebel wrote: > Fortunately the backed off on 18 to 30 inches of snow, down to "up to 10 > inches" by Saturday morning, but they also said no snow until after 10 > tonight, and it started snowing at 2pm! The storm coming in is supposed to > turn blizzardy Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday the temperature is > supposed to drop, and we'll have 3-4 nights of -6F to -7F. (High's of 7-10 > during the day - yay! lol) > > Last year around this time, someone sent a link to the list on ice > crystals, looking at 'em in situ and sort of growing them I think (but the > growing of them might just have been something I got from a sublink, since I > obsessed on it for a minute.) I can't find that link. Does someone have it? > I'm in sort of the "have lemons, make lemonade" state of mind. I figure I > might as well have some crystal-growing fun with these awful temps! > > (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, > please let me know - I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems to > work, and this year, darn it, I wanna build a snow chapel, with colored > stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about it for 5-10 > years!) > > Thanks, > > Julie > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Dec 12 17:19:28 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 12 17:19:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence Message-ID: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> Hi all, especially glowhounds, I have several pieces of halite from Searles Lake in California and almost all of them fluoresce and phosphoresce white under SW UV. One piece, however---which I got form John Betts four years ago---fluoresced a brilliant red-orange in a picture he posted to his site, and when I received it. The specimen was a pinkish white under natural light, like most of my others. I keep them all in an air-conditioned room because with our humidity here they would soon end up as a puddle of salty water. Now I find that the one from Betts has changed to an ugly gray in daylight and does not fluoresce at all any more. Anyone have an idea of what has happened? I'm guessing that it has to do with microbes or algae in the water of the lake, but I don't understand why one piece would be so different from the others which came from the same lake. Aloha, Kitty From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 12 17:43:00 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 12 17:42:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tikaalik video Message-ID: <4E50D454CB9941D3A999A3EA4FAECAA0@Goldstein> This is an interesting video about Tikaalik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9h1tR42QYA&feature=related I suspect some paleo grad students had a little too much time on their hands. Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 18:05:46 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 12 18:05:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Antarctic meteor team blog Message-ID: The team down in the Antarctic searching for meteors is doing a short daily blog. Does not seem to be syndicated so you'll have to check back to the website if you want to read it: BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Dec 12 18:11:14 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Dec 12 18:11:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc Message-ID: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> HI Axel, Kitty, et al: Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between people but between eyes.? Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different color responses.? Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go figure.? It's less noticable now, but still there.? So comparing colors of phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via email may be futile.? Surely the color business has sensors that make this all objective nowadays? Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation.? Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac.? This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage.? It glows best in long-wave "black light".? I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. Merry Christmas, everyone! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 12 19:00:30 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 12 19:00:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33B17C46-C8C2-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Julie, There are three tricks to making clear ice. Think about how icicles are formed. Use distilled water to get the minerals out of the water. Use boiled water to get the air out of the water. Freeze it in repeated thin layers. Commercial ice machines circulate cold water over a frozen surface to build up ice cubes in thin layers. The ice cubes in your glass at a restaurant are always clear because they make them like icicles. The ice cubes in your freezer are cloudy in the middle; they freeze from the outside and concentrate the impurities in the middle. But if you want to make a big block, do it like the folks who make ice sculptures do. They take a big container and fill it with boiled, distilled water, and put it in a freezer. They put tubes into the center of the container that extract water and refill it with fresh water. As it freezes from the outside, the air and minerals concentrate at the center and are replaced. Just before the whole thing freezes solid you pull the tubes and have just a little clouding in the center. One other trick is to take a tub of water and start freezing it. When the top surface has frozen clear, remove it to get a clear sheet of thin ice. Mount it vertically in the cold and mist it with colored water (letting the excess run off) to make 'stained glass'. Natural ice is a mineral. Kreigh On Friday, Dec 12, 2008, at 19:38 America/Detroit, Julie Siebel wrote: > Fortunately the backed off on 18 to 30 inches of snow, down to "up to > 10 inches" by Saturday morning, but they also said no snow until after > 10 tonight, and it started snowing at 2pm! The storm coming in is > supposed to turn blizzardy Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday the > temperature is supposed to drop, and we'll have 3-4 nights of -6F to > -7F. (High's of 7-10 during the day - yay! lol) > > Last year around this time, someone sent a link to the list on ice > crystals, looking at 'em in situ and sort of growing them I think (but > the growing of them might just have been something I got from a > sublink, since I obsessed on it for a minute.) I can't find that link. > Does someone have it? I'm in sort of the "have lemons, make lemonade" > state of mind. I figure I might as well have some crystal-growing fun > with these awful temps! > > (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, > please let me know - I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems > to work, and this year, darn it, I wanna build a snow chapel, with > colored stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about it > for 5-10 years!) > > Thanks, > > Julie > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 12 20:14:50 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 12 20:14:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: <9860AF5090CF489BA6E7347124721C29@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <95FC5404-C8CC-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Hey Axel, Only the 'spark' needs to be in vacuum. Think about a Crookes Tube. Dragging your feet may be a good solution as it moves the charge outside the vacuum. Kreigh On Friday, Dec 12, 2008, at 05:31 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Are you trying to tell us that you DON'T have one of those X-ray > glasses > from back in the early sixties??? > Dragging your feet, hey? > That will get you : > 1) AKITA from your boss at work > 2) AKITA from the wife at home > A nasty lick when you finally get grounded. > > Only if you can scuff in a vacuum ;-)))) > > Cheers > > Axel >> It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a >> nylon run >> followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a >> science fair project. >> >> BK > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 12 20:22:27 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 12 20:22:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also noticed a difference in color between eyes. The sky was a different shade of blue between the left and right eye (slight but noticable). Haven't looked for the difference in years, need to try it again. As a long time amateur astronomer I always had fun comparing the subtle colors of stars and nebulae between different observers. I also noticed the skyglow at night was different. If I observed with a red light, the night sky had a green color. If I looked with purple (from a bug light), the night sky had a deep red hue. Fun stuff! My observing buddies noticed the effect, so it wasn't just me. I was the one to point it out. Poison sumac is a northern plant, not western. It is widespread in northern Indiana. Poison oak is the western plant. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc HI Axel, Kitty, et al: Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors of phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this all objective nowadays? Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. Merry Christmas, everyone! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Dec 12 20:45:24 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 12 20:45:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tikaalik video Message-ID: What's a Tikaalik?????? (yes, sure, I could look at the video. are we supposed to have heard of Tikaalik? never been there (that I know of. Sounds Eskimo.) (you'll have to excuse me, just felt like being difficult) : ) P. In a message dated 12/12/2008 6:43:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, deepskyspy@insightbb.com writes: This is an interesting video about Tikaalik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9h1tR42QYA&feature=related I suspect some paleo grad students had a little too much time on their hands. Alan G. **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 20:52:13 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Dec 12 20:52:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: X-rays from scotch tape In-Reply-To: <95FC5404-C8CC-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9860AF5090CF489BA6E7347124721C29@AXELDESKTOP> <95FC5404-C8CC-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I would assume there is a much larger charge generated by the feet than the tape. Might not need a vacuum. Lightning generates gammas after all. BK On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 23:14, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Hey Axel, > > Only the 'spark' needs to be in vacuum. Think about a Crookes Tube. > Dragging your feet may be a good solution as it moves the charge outside the > vacuum. > > Kreigh > > > > On Friday, Dec 12, 2008, at 05:31 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Are you trying to tell us that you DON'T have one of those X-ray glasses >> from back in the early sixties??? >> Dragging your feet, hey? >> That will get you : >> 1) AKITA from your boss at work >> 2) AKITA from the wife at home >> A nasty lick when you finally get grounded. >> >> Only if you can scuff in a vacuum ;-)))) >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >>> It would be interesting to see if the scuffing your feet along a nylon >>> run >>> followed by a spark discharge would generate any x-rays. Might make a >>> science fair project. >>> >>> BK >>> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Dec 12 20:52:09 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 12 20:52:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tikaalik video Message-ID: Just looked at the video--very cute! You have to understand, mineral collectors can't be expected to know about such things, even if it is (so they say) "the world's favorite tetrapod". cheers & thanks for sending the link, Pete In a message dated 12/12/2008 6:43:15 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, deepskyspy@insightbb.com writes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9h1tR42QYA&feature=related **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Fri Dec 12 23:20:55 2008 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Fri Dec 12 23:21:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Poison Ivy, etc.( Was:colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc.) In-Reply-To: References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48CADD50-CC24-48BE-8AC8-9C620BAA2222@mc.net> Quote: Poison ivy is a harmful vine or shrub in the cashew family. It grows plentifully in parts of the United States and southern Canada. Poison ivy usually grows as a vine twining on tree trunks or straggling over the ground. But the plant often forms upright bushes if it has no support to climb upon. Species related to poison ivy include poison oak, which grows in the Pacific Northwest and nearby regions of Canada, and poison sumac, which grows in the Eastern United States. Poison oak and poison sumac both are shrubs. From: http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view For a description of Smooth Sumac ( more than you ever wanted to know), which is non-poisonous, and in fact edible, see: > http://plants.usda.gov/factsheet/pdf/fs_rhgl.pdf I have both poison ivy and smooth sumac growing on my property. If anybody is interested I'll go crunch through the snow with my UV lamp... John ( is this totally off-topic ?) From markstanley at bellnet.ca Sat Dec 13 04:57:28 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Sat Dec 13 05:03:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Poison Ivy, etc. References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <48CADD50-CC24-48BE-8AC8-9C620BAA2222@mc.net> Message-ID: <013a01c95d22$af392980$24ede2d1@b1quvu32> Our Poison Ivy currently can be collected with a bright white coating of ice crystals. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada. minus 21 degrees Celsius........brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Poison Ivy, etc.( Was:colour perception,organic fluorescence, etc.) > Quote: > > Poison ivy is a harmful vine or shrub in the cashew family. It grows > plentifully in parts of the United States and southern Canada. Poison > ivy usually grows as a vine twining on tree trunks or straggling over > the ground. But the plant often forms upright bushes if it has no > support to climb upon. Species related to poison ivy include poison > oak, which grows in the Pacific Northwest and nearby regions of > Canada, and poison sumac, which grows in the Eastern United States. > Poison oak and poison sumac both are shrubs. > > From: > http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view > > For a description of Smooth Sumac ( more than you ever wanted to > know), which is non-poisonous, and in fact edible, see: > > http://plants.usda.gov/factsheet/pdf/fs_rhgl.pdf > > I have both poison ivy and smooth sumac growing on my property. If > anybody is interested I'll go crunch through the snow with my UV lamp... > > John > ( is this totally off-topic ?) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 13 08:07:00 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 13 08:07:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Julie, Clear ice comes from slow freezing. No bubbles means no air in the water. Boiling water before freezing it should help. Most dyes would either freeze out or make the ice opaque. I'd use stuff like strong thee, juice from berries (black-, cran- or cherries); red cabbage. If you add some fluoresceine (they dye that is use to color radiator-fluid green) to the mix you could light the chapel up from the inside with a simple UV-led. The weather is sunny and just below freezing point. No snow expected in significant amounts, so you'll have to make the snow-choir for your chapel yourself (LOL). Success Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Julie Siebel > Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2008 1:38 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... > > Fortunately the backed off on 18 to 30 inches of snow, down to "up to 10 inches" by Saturday > morning, but they also said no snow until after 10 tonight, and it started snowing at 2pm! The > storm coming in is supposed to turn blizzardy Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday the > temperature is supposed to drop, and we'll have 3-4 nights of -6F to -7F. (High's of 7-10 > during the day - yay! lol) > > Last year around this time, someone sent a link to the list on ice crystals, looking at 'em in > situ and sort of growing them I think (but the growing of them might just have been > something I got from a sublink, since I obsessed on it for a minute.) I can't find that link. > Does someone have it? I'm in sort of the "have lemons, make lemonade" state of mind. I > figure I might as well have some crystal-growing fun with these awful temps! > > (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, please let me know - > I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems to work, and this year, darn it, I wanna > build a snow chapel, with colored stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about > it for 5-10 years!) > > Thanks, > > Julie > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Sat Dec 13 08:10:43 2008 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Sat Dec 13 08:10:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Halite losing fluorescence Message-ID: I'm undereducated on this but interested none-the-less, because I collect at Searles Lake during the annual field trip. The daylight pink color, as I understand it, is due to the presence of halobacteria, which have a red pigment in them. If this pigment is an activator for fluorescence, I assume it could break down, being organic. I read an interesting transcript on red fluorescence in halite being due to the presence of manganese and lead as co-activators in some deposits. Apparently the manganese can oxidize, leading to loss of fluorescence: www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM31/AM31_527.pdf The pink halite cubes are often attached to a matrix of burkeite, which can be gray. But I've never seen the pink cubes themselves turn gray. The halobacteria seem to thrive in certain zones in the brine ponds which dot the surface of the lake. Even in the same brine pond, the halite will be unequally colored - some could be deep burgandy, while some will be only lightly blushed with pink, and some can be white. The collecting area on the lake is large, and differing conditions exist among the brine ponds, and year to year, depending on natural conditions such as rainfall, and also on lake flow management - it's operated as a chemical plant the other 364 days of the year, when we "tourists" aren't out there. So it's conceivable that one piece of halite could be a little different chemically than another, even though the locality is the same. Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 13 08:19:53 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 13 08:20:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence In-Reply-To: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Kitty, One possible cause would be that the specimen has more than average manganese content (which may aid the fluorescence, mangano-calcite is often also pink). As manganese is divalent is cannot simply replace sodium in halite. To compensate for the charge deficit there would have to be a group of ions that has an extra negative charge, like (NaCl2)- If the specimen is a bit porous it's possible that the manganese oxidizes to MnO2 which is gray. One way to protect halite is to immerse it in a concentrated sodium chloride solution for a few days. That would allow the KCl (which is the salt that takes up the water from the air) to dissolve in the brine. The NaCl replaces it thus making the specimen non-hygroscopic. Be careful though with fluorescent specimens, you may extract the activator or inhibit (especially with crystal defects as the activator) fluorescence... Cheers Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2008 2:19 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence > > Hi all, especially glowhounds, > > I have several pieces of halite from Searles Lake in California and > almost all of them fluoresce and phosphoresce white under SW UV. One > piece, however---which I got form John Betts four years ago---fluoresced > a brilliant red-orange in a picture he posted to his site, and when I > received it. The specimen was a pinkish white under natural light, like > most of my others. I keep them all in an air-conditioned room because > with our humidity here they would soon end up as a puddle of salty > water. Now I find that the one from Betts has changed to an ugly gray > in daylight and does not fluoresce at all any more. Anyone have an idea > of what has happened? I'm guessing that it has to do with microbes or > algae in the water of the lake, but I don't understand why one piece > would be so different from the others which came from the same lake. > > Aloha, Kitty > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From davisj at earthlink.net Sat Dec 13 08:43:45 2008 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sat Dec 13 08:44:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Julie, Be thankful you are not in the ice storm in NJ/NY...I miss the snow..send some our way...we are in AZ From john.duck at comcast.net Sat Dec 13 10:10:30 2008 From: john.duck at comcast.net (john.duck@comcast.net) Date: Sat Dec 13 10:10:33 2008 Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario? Message-ID: <121320081810.18986.4943FA960006BBEA00004A2A2200734840050C9A0BD202080106@comcast.net> -------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: john.duck@comcast.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] White Elephant Mine, Ontario Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:00:11 +0000 The White Elephant Mine in Wilberforce, Ontario was located on Fleming Road (now Regional Road) 0.25 miles west of its intersection with Rt 648 and about 100 to 200 meters south of Fleming Road. It may be the same location now listed as the American Molybdenite Mine in the guide by Ann Sabina on the Bancroft Area. The White Elephant Mine is listed in the "Peterson Guide to Mineral Collecting; Bancroft Area", Helen Peterson, 1978 edition. I don't know the current status of the location. It was known for diopside, molybdenite, and small zircons. The reference to the American Molybdenite Mine is from "Rocks and Minerals for the Collector: Bancroft to Parry Sound Area and Southern Ontario", Geological Survey of Canada Miscellaneous Report 39, Ann P. Sabina, 1988 reprint. John Duck --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 13 12:06:03 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 13 12:06:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1CB4A520F0C446EEB18C374F6953B32F@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Alan, I know of one mechanisme that makes some organic compouds fluoresce; It happens when energy is transferred between chemical groups that are part of a molecule. If my memory serves me, rhodamine B is a good example (it used to be a reagent to demonstrate antimony, it gives a violet precipitate). Complex organic molecules vibrate (all molecules do). They can rotate, vibrate and stuff. Some of these chemical groups of the rhodamine B molecule exchange energy each time the "flexing" molecule brings these groups close together. So the electron that carries the energy just "walks" over whenever the gap is small. Hence, no fluorescence. When you put it in the freezer, however, you drain some of the motion-energy of the molecules, making them "less flexible". Now the electron has to JUMP the space and the rhodamine B becomes fluorescent. It's called cryoluminescence. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2008 5:22 > Aan: jr50wv@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > I also noticed a difference in color between eyes. The sky was a different > shade of blue between the left and right eye (slight but noticable). Haven't > looked for the difference in years, need to try it again. As a long time > amateur astronomer I always had fun comparing the subtle colors of stars and > nebulae between different observers. > > I also noticed the skyglow at night was different. If I observed with a red > light, the night sky had a green color. If I looked with purple (from a bug > light), the night sky had a deep red hue. Fun stuff! My observing buddies > noticed the effect, so it wasn't just me. I was the one to point it out. > > Poison sumac is a northern plant, not western. It is widespread in northern > Indiana. Poison oak is the western plant. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:11 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between > people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I > spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film > batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job > the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different > color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a > film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. > > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go > figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors of > phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via > email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this > all objective nowadays? > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that > fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust > variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't > the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which > bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent > non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't > remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic > materials? > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, > etc. > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 13 12:18:05 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 13 12:18:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <907CE493AB1949429536A8AECE65E024@AXELDESKTOP> Hi JR > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go figure.? [Axel] I've seen that too but it's not constant. I think it may be related to peripheral vision and after -images (suppose you're driving a car on a coast way while the person in the passenger seat is wearing red. Sea is on your left. After a short time the blue of the sea may cause your left eye to see a slightly yellow overtone while the red sweater causes you right eye to see a litter greener. Just a theory). > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the > right stimulation.? Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as > does the shrub sumac.? This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a > shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non- > intoxicating beverage.? It glows best in long-wave "black light".? I don't remember which > spectrum locust responds to best. [Axel] Some trees do fluoresce! I saw a piece of wood from an acacia tree that fluoresced like it was soaked in uranyl salts. > [Axel] Merry Christmas[Axel] to you too! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Dec 13 14:10:51 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Dec 13 14:10:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <777051.59296.qm@web110807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70654.96112.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Jim, Years ago a cousin and I were - not lost, just temporarily misplaced, and wound up walking a long way around in the woods of Raleigh county, WV, the Friday after Thanksgiving (late November, into early wintery weather for those not familiar with USA weather patterns) and we got out of the woods onto a country road around 10 pm, after 3 or 4 hours in the woods after dark, in sleety weather.? My cousin was from the city, and pretty upset, but I kept him with me, and we made it out of the woods OK, following the "go downstream" rule. I noticed in the middle of that walk in nearly pitch dark some glowing fragments on the ground, and called my cousin over.? We picked up some fragments of a stump, and wondered over the glowing dim green light. There are a lot of "fireflies" in WV too, little bugs that fly and blink in the early evening, one sex is glowworms in the grassy lawns, the other blinks in species-based patterns.? I understand that there's one species of glowworm that is carnivorous, and blinks fake signals of other species to lure in and eat lovelorn fireflies.? So sad! JR in WV? --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Jim Daly wrote: From: Jim Daly Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc To: jr50wv@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:41 AM There's also phosphorescence of organic compounds in the woods at night. Fungi that glow a light blue grow on dead and rotting tree trunks. In the east we called it "foxfire". This is very likely the same mechanism as the firefly's light and the synthetic equivalentof the Cyalume light sticks. UV fluorescence is probably the same mechanism- just a different activation wavelength. Jim Daly Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation.? Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac.? This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage.? It glows best in long-wave "black light".? I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. Merry Christmas, everyone! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative ? text/plain (text body -- kept) ? text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Dec 13 14:45:51 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Dec 13 14:46:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <907CE493AB1949429536A8AECE65E024@AXELDESKTOP> References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <907CE493AB1949429536A8AECE65E024@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <49443B1F.2050002@hawaiiantel.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > I think it may be related > to peripheral vision and after -images (suppose you're driving a car on a > coast way while the person in the passenger seat is wearing red. Sea is on > your left. After a short time the blue of the sea may cause your left eye to > see a slightly yellow overtone while the red sweater causes you right eye to > see a litter greener. Just a theory) > _RE color perception:_ When I was in college (half a century ago) there was a party with a theme from "The Wizard of Oz" where all the lights in the room were green, to suggest the Emerald City. When we left the party the whole visible world seemed bathed in red for several minutes. Then another group put on a party at Christmas where the tree and all the lights in the room were red, and of course when we left everything appeared green. Movie directors use this "hunger" of the eyes for the complementary color to direct the viewers' attentions to important people or items. I recall in one of Alfred Hitchock's movies he wanted us to notice Grace Kelly entering a large room full of people without making it obvious. So he staged the room in warm colors and had all the people costumed in the same (red, brown, orange, dark yellow). Grace Kelly entered far in the background and to one side, slowly and with lots of people around so that she was only gradually revealed; the camera remained steady and did not zoom in on her, and she did the opposite of a Grand Entrance: she kept her eyes down or looking away from the camera. But she was dressed in green and our "green-starved" eyes picked her up right away. It made us want to whisper to our hero (maybe Cary Grant): "Look over there! See that woman---no, wait, someone stepped in front of her...there she is! Can't you see her?" You can test this by holding a small red card on a white or gray background and staring at it for several seconds, then remove the card and you will see the image of the card in green and vice versa. Same with orange and blue, or yellow and purple, though red and green is most obvious. _RE organic fluorescence:_ I know much petrified wood is fluorescent. Is this related to the organic origins of the wood? And I recall seeing some kind of fungus that glowed in the dark in the woods in New Jersey when I was a child, and this was without a UV lamp. And I think we discussed some years ago on this List the white glow sometimes seen in ocean water. Some have said that this coincides with a "Red Tide" of algae bloom, but I have seen it on two occasions when there was no coloration in the water. I think it still is some kind of ocean mini-critter, but perhaps not the "Red Tide" stuff. The effect is called "Phosphorescent," but that would seem a misnomer to me, at least compared to phosphorescence in minerals. One time I saw it in Puget Sound when my family was digging for clams, especially the one pronounced "/gooey-duck/" and is variously spelled geoduck, goeduck, goiduck, or gweduck. (I like "geoduck" best; it looks like it has something to do with rocks!) Anyway, we went out to the beach in the dark, and when we shoved a spade into the sand it sparkled and flashed white for several seconds. As you tossed a spadeful of sand aside it glowed as it hit the sand. Our footprints glowed as we walked. The second time was when Bill and I were camping at Manele Bay on the island of Lanai (this was before the luxury Four Seasons Manele Bay Resort resort was built there). We watched ocean waves crash making white glow and spray, and then a glistening sheet of white was left in the sand as the waves receded. At first Bill thought it was just moonlight reflected off the water, but then a cloud came over to darken the moon, and the glow showed even brighter. I can't be positive that there was no red in the water on either of these occasions because they occurred at night. But there was no sign of red the day before or after, and no reporst from residents. But red or not, I assume it was cause by some microorganism. Aloha, Kitty From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Dec 13 16:02:51 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Sat Dec 13 16:08:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49444D2B.6020307@hal-pc.org> Julie Siebel wrote: > (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, please let me know - I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems to work, and this year, darn it, I wanna build a snow chapel, with colored stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about it for 5-10 years!) > > Thanks, > > Julie > > You might start by boiling the water to get rid of dissolved air. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Dec 13 16:07:09 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Sat Dec 13 16:13:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49444E2D.7000401@hal-pc.org> J. R. Hodel wrote: > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > JR > > > Think Foxfire. john From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Dec 13 16:23:06 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Dec 13 16:24:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter's here... References: <33B17C46-C8C2-11DD-AEEC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3567491B5326461D81503BFF07A8F140@Montana> I've loved all the suggestions for clear ice, and I'll be using those - lol - it's certainly cold enough: Sunday 7 to -5, Monday 3 to -11, Tuesday 6 to -10! Wind chill as low as -22. I'll build my ice and save it in a snow bank until there's fresh snow that's decent for a snow chapel. The stuff coming down now is pretty dry. But I'm really interested in the frost/snow link that someone sent last year...and I think they sent it the year before as well. I guess it's impetus to move the rest of the archives over into searchable format - lol. Julie > >> Fortunately the backed off on 18 to 30 inches of snow, down to "up to 10 >> inches" by Saturday morning, but they also said no snow until after 10 >> tonight, and it started snowing at 2pm! The storm coming in is supposed >> to turn blizzardy Saturday and Sunday and then on Sunday the temperature >> is supposed to drop, and we'll have 3-4 nights of -6F to -7F. (High's of >> 7-10 during the day - yay! lol) >> >> Last year around this time, someone sent a link to the list on ice >> crystals, looking at 'em in situ and sort of growing them I think (but >> the growing of them might just have been something I got from a sublink, >> since I obsessed on it for a minute.) I can't find that link. Does >> someone have it? I'm in sort of the "have lemons, make lemonade" state of >> mind. I figure I might as well have some crystal-growing fun with these >> awful temps! >> >> (And if anyone knows off hand the secret to making ice freeze clearly, >> please let me know - I've tried several suggestions, but nothing seems to >> work, and this year, darn it, I wanna build a snow chapel, with colored >> stained "glass" windows, for Christmas...been talking about it for 5-10 >> years!) >> >> Thanks, >> >> Julie >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Dec 13 17:02:58 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Dec 13 17:02:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <49443B1F.2050002@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Kitty, There is a fungus that breaks down dead wood that is luminous. It is not all that common, and you have to break open rotting logs to find it. When we go camping in Michigan we try to find some of it to mark the trail from the campsite to the latrine. It glows with a bright white light. Kreigh On Saturday, Dec 13, 2008, at 17:45 America/Detroit, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > _RE organic fluorescence:_ > I know much petrified wood is fluorescent. Is this related to the > organic origins of the wood? > And I recall seeing some kind of fungus that glowed in the dark in the > woods in New Jersey when I was a child, and this was without a UV > lamp. From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Dec 14 00:01:47 2008 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Dec 14 00:35:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008e01c95dc6$deb6cec0$044cd0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi all, Many years ago, some botanists ap[proached me to lend them a portable long wave UV lamp. They were going to check for insects on orange trees, which were affecting the orange trees. Cannot remember the results. Anybody heard of this before? Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc HI Axel, Kitty, et al: Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors of phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this all objective nowadays? Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. Merry Christmas, everyone! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: 12/12/2008 9:02 AM From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 08:21:38 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Dec 14 08:21:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <70654.96112.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <752424.7743.qm@web110809.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> In those weather conditions (I assume it was pretty cold) I'm surprised the fungi glowed very strongly. Makes me suspect the mechanism for foxfire isn't the same as Cyalume. When the Cyalume lightsticks were first developed all sales people for American Cyananid were issued a bunch of them to hand out to customers, since it was a product in search of a market. Our sales person for New England, on a cold and snowy?night got stuck in a snowbank. She had no flashlight, so she grabbed some lightsticks from the trunk. When she cracked it to activate it-- nothing! Seems that the rate of the light-producing reaction is strongly affected by temperature ( as are most chemical reactions). If the foxfire reaction isn't dependent on temperature, I don't know what it is! Jim --- On Sat, 12/13/08, J. R. Hodel wrote: From: J. R. Hodel Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc To: sauktown1@yahoo.com, rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 2:10 PM Hi Jim, Years ago a cousin and I were - not lost, just temporarily misplaced, and wound up walking a long way around in the woods of Raleigh county, WV, the Friday after Thanksgiving (late November, into early wintery weather for those not familiar with USA weather patterns) and we got out of the woods onto a country road around 10 pm, after 3 or 4 hours in the woods after dark, in sleety weather.? My cousin was from the city, and pretty upset, but I kept him with me, and we made it out of the woods OK, following the "go downstream" rule. I noticed in the middle of that walk in nearly pitch dark some glowing fragments on the ground, and called my cousin over.? We picked up some fragments of a stump, and wondered over the glowing dim green light. There are a lot of "fireflies" in WV too, little bugs that fly and blink in the early evening, one sex is glowworms in the grassy lawns, the other blinks in species-based patterns.? I understand that there's one species of glowworm that is carnivorous, and blinks fake signals of other species to lure in and eat lovelorn fireflies.? So sad! JR in WV? --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Jim Daly wrote: From: Jim Daly Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc To: jr50wv@yahoo.com Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 10:41 AM There's also phosphorescence of organic compounds in the woods at night. Fungi that glow a light blue grow on dead and rotting tree trunks. In the east we called it "foxfire". This is very likely the same mechanism as the firefly's light and the synthetic equivalentof the Cyalume light sticks. UV fluorescence is probably the same mechanism- just a different activation wavelength. Jim Daly Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that fluoresce under the right stimulation.? Locust (I think the black locust variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac.? This isn't the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent non-intoxicating beverage.? It glows best in long-wave "black light".? I don't remember which spectrum locust responds to best. Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic materials? Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, etc. Merry Christmas, everyone! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative ? text/plain (text body -- kept) ? text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 08:28:36 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Dec 14 08:28:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <1CB4A520F0C446EEB18C374F6953B32F@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <622744.58183.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi Axel, I Hadn't read this before my last reply. This could be the explanation for the foxfire mechanism. Might also have been helpful to the American Cyanamid people, (if Cyanamid still existed) Jim --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Axel Emmermann wrote: From: Axel Emmermann Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:06 PM Hi Alan, I know of one mechanisme that makes some organic compouds fluoresce; It happens when energy is transferred between chemical groups that are part of a molecule. If my memory serves me, rhodamine B is a good example (it used to be a reagent to demonstrate antimony, it gives a violet precipitate). Complex organic molecules vibrate (all molecules do). They can rotate, vibrate and stuff. Some of these chemical groups of the rhodamine B molecule exchange energy each time the "flexing" molecule brings these groups close together. So the electron that carries the energy just "walks" over whenever the gap is small. Hence, no fluorescence. When you put it in the freezer, however, you drain some of the motion-energy of the molecules, making them "less flexible". Now the electron has to JUMP the space and the rhodamine B becomes fluorescent. It's called cryoluminescence. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2008 5:22 > Aan: jr50wv@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > I also noticed a difference in color between eyes. The sky was a different > shade of blue between the left and right eye (slight but noticable). Haven't > looked for the difference in years, need to try it again. As a long time > amateur astronomer I always had fun comparing the subtle colors of stars and > nebulae between different observers. > > I also noticed the skyglow at night was different. If I observed with a red > light, the night sky had a green color. If I looked with purple (from a bug > light), the night sky had a deep red hue. Fun stuff! My observing buddies > noticed the effect, so it wasn't just me. I was the one to point it out. > > Poison sumac is a northern plant, not western. It is widespread in northern > Indiana. Poison oak is the western plant. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:11 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between > people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I > spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film > batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job > the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different > color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a > film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. > > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go > figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors of > phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via > email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this > all objective nowadays? > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that > fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust > variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't > the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which > bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent > non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't > remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic > materials? > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, > etc. > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 14 08:59:09 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 14 08:59:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <008e01c95dc6$deb6cec0$044cd0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <008e01c95dc6$deb6cec0$044cd0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: <33C6929E57164BFDB64D12A4E7A38F1A@AXELDESKTOP> Horst, The chitinous exoskeleton of some insect is very fluorescent. The brightest in scorpions... you can see those coming from far with a simple UV-LED torch. Some beetles fluoresce too. I haven't seen it in other insects yet. Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Horst Windisch > Verzonden: zondag 14 december 2008 9:02 > Aan: jr50wv@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > Hi all, > > Many years ago, some botanists ap[proached me to lend them a portable long > wave UV lamp. They were going to check for insects on orange trees, which > were affecting the orange trees. Cannot remember the results. Anybody heard > of this before? > > Regards, > > Horst > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:11 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between > people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day when I > spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film > batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job > the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly different > color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a > film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. > > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go > figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors of > phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via > email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this > all objective nowadays? > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that > fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust > variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This isn't > the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which > bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent > non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". I don't > remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic > materials? > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black light, > etc. > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: 12/12/2008 > 9:02 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 14 09:32:47 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 14 09:33:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <622744.58183.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1CB4A520F0C446EEB18C374F6953B32F@AXELDESKTOP> <622744.58183.qm@web110808.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, Those glow-sticks are a quite different process. It's called chemoluminescence. You have two solutions, one of which is a oxidant. Mixing the fluids starts a slow oxidation. The rearrangement of chemical groups causes the light-emission. There are two basic processes: chemical and biochemical. You can easily do the chemical one as follows (be careful: KOH is dangerous for skin and eyes): Make solutions in water of 15% potassium hydroxide, 15% pyrogallol (1,2,3 trihydroxybenzene) and 10% hydrogen peroxide. Mix the solutions in equal amounts (SMALL amounts of a few CC at a time). You should see a red glow or at least a red flash. It works even better when you do this in the dark ;-))))) LOL The bioluminescence in fireflies is caused by luciferol , a complex organic molecule, which is attacked by the enzyme luciferase. Both are made by the firefly's metabolism. The luciferol reacts with oxygen to form an instable dioxytanone. In turn, this chemical substance decays to CO2 , adenosine monophosphate and a quantum of light. Cheerz Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Jim Daly > Verzonden: zondag 14 december 2008 17:29 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > Hi Axel, > I Hadn't read this before my last reply. This could be the explanation for the foxfire > mechanism. Might also have been helpful to the American Cyanamid people, (if Cyanamid still > existed) > Jim > > --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > From: Axel Emmermann > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 12:06 PM > > Hi Alan, > > I know of one mechanisme that makes some organic compouds fluoresce; > It happens when energy is transferred between chemical groups that are part > of a molecule. > If my memory serves me, rhodamine B is a good example (it used to be a > reagent to demonstrate antimony, it gives a violet precipitate). > Complex organic molecules vibrate (all molecules do). They can rotate, > vibrate and stuff. Some of these chemical groups of the rhodamine B molecule > exchange energy each time the "flexing" molecule brings these groups > close > together. So the electron that carries the energy just "walks" over > whenever > the gap is small. Hence, no fluorescence. > When you put it in the freezer, however, you drain some of the motion-energy > of the molecules, making them "less flexible". Now the electron has > to JUMP > the space and the rhodamine B becomes fluorescent. > It's called cryoluminescence. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens Alan Goldstein > > Verzonden: zaterdag 13 december 2008 5:22 > > Aan: jr50wv@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and > gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > > I also noticed a difference in color between eyes. The sky was a different > > shade of blue between the left and right eye (slight but noticable). > Haven't > > looked for the difference in years, need to try it again. As a long time > > amateur astronomer I always had fun comparing the subtle colors of stars > and > > nebulae between different observers. > > > > I also noticed the skyglow at night was different. If I observed with a > red > > light, the night sky had a green color. If I looked with purple (from a > bug > > light), the night sky had a deep red hue. Fun stuff! My observing buddies > > noticed the effect, so it wasn't just me. I was the one to point it > out. > > > > Poison sumac is a northern plant, not western. It is widespread in > northern > > Indiana. Poison oak is the western plant. > > > > Alan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J. R. Hodel" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:11 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > > > > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > > > Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies between > > people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day > when I > > spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from film > > batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the best job > > the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly > different > > color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you aimed a > > film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. > > > > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go > > figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing colors > of > > phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing it via > > email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make this > > all objective nowadays? > > > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that > > fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black locust > > variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. This > isn't > > the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub which > > bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent > > non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black > light". I > don't > > remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in organic > > materials? > > > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black > light, > > etc. > > > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > > > JR > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bova at mindspring.com Sun Dec 14 13:53:47 2008 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun Dec 14 13:53:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc In-Reply-To: <008e01c95dc6$deb6cec0$044cd0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <210540.27568.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <008e01c95dc6$deb6cec0$044cd0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: As Axel wrote, scorpions are highly fluorescent. I was looking for chalcedony near Blythe, California one year using a little UV lamp, to see if it helped me with finding fire agate nodules (which often have a chalcedony "cap"). The chalcedony fluoresces a brilliant lime green (green-yellow), and I discovered, so do scorpions. Thus ended my plans for night time rockhounding for fire agate. I found a reference in a 2006 journal article of a 2001 study, that marking insects with fluorescent dusts to track the movements of insects in orange groves was a reliable method, Without looking much further, I noticed there are other studies with both insects and rats in orange groves, so it's a successful method. The fluorescent powder allows observations of insect/animal activity in the dark. (Searched on fluorescence insects orange trees.) Carol Authors: Coviella, Carlos E.; Garcia, Juliana F.; Jeske, Daniel R.; Redak, Richard A.; Luck, Robert F. Source: Journal of Economic Entomology, Volume 99, Number 4, August 2006 , pp. 1051-1057(7) Publisher: Entomological Society of America http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa/jee/2006/00000099/00000004/art00004?crawler=true Abstract "A mark-release-recapture technique was developed and tested for use in tracking the field movements of adult glassy-winged sharpshooters, Homalodisca coagulata (Say) (Hemiptera: Cicadellidae), in various agricultural and urban plantings. Greenhouse experiments in which adult H. coagulata were marked with one of five colored fluorescent dusts (Aurora Pink-A11, Horizon Blue-A19, Blaze Orange-A15N, Saturn Yellow-A17, and Corona Magenta-A21) and released into cages with citrus seedlings showed that their mortality rates during a 30-d period were statistically similar to that of the undusted controls." "... The use of colored dusts to mark H. coagulata proved to be reliable, cost-effective, and time-efficient for mark-release- recapture studies with this insect within a citrus grove, but they are less likely to be useful for studies of adult H. coagulata movements among plantings." On Dec 14, 2008, at 3:01 AM, Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi all, > > Many years ago, some botanists ap[proached me to lend them a > portable long > wave UV lamp. They were going to check for insects on orange trees, > which > were affecting the orange trees. Cannot remember the results. > Anybody heard > of this before? > > Regards, > > Horst > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 4:11 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] colour perception, organic fluorescence, etc > > > HI Axel, Kitty, et al: > > Someone remarked about color perception, and this not only varies > between > people but between eyes. Now I'll date myself . . . Back in the day > when I > spent a lot of time in a darkroom and comparing color results from > film > batch to batch, and from video camera to video camera despite the > best job > the color engineers could do, I noticed that my eyes had slightly > different > color responses. Partly this was noticable because back then you > aimed a > film camera with one eye at the viewfinder. > > One eye was closer to Ektachrome and one was closer to Kodachrome - go > figure. It's less noticable now, but still there. So comparing > colors of > phosphorescence and fluorescence with the naked eye and discussing > it via > email may be futile. Surely the color business has sensors that make > this > all objective nowadays? > > Axel, here in the North American forests we have several woods that > fluoresce under the right stimulation. Locust (I think the black > locust > variety native to the WV forest) glows, as does the shrub sumac. > This isn't > the poison sumac which I think is a western shrub, this is a shrub > which > bears bright red fruit clusters with which you can make a pleasent > non-intoxicating beverage. It glows best in long-wave "black light". > I don't > remember which spectrum locust responds to best. > > Do we know what mechanism might cause the fluorescent reaction in > organic > materials? > > Just wondering, sorry if we're off topic, but it is related to black > light, > etc. > > Merry Christmas, everyone! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1845 - Release Date: > 12/12/2008 > 9:02 AM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 06:49:33 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Dec 15 06:49:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite crashes, burns warehouse!!? Message-ID: <991061.81105.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I'm probably not the first to report that a meteorite (almost certainly directed by Martian Overlords! ;-) ) has crashed into a warehouse in Australia causing a fire: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547987 Check it out! JR in WV, hiding in a deep mine from the space invaders!? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 15 07:16:37 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Dec 15 07:20:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! References: <9F01D7BF09C34C618499A4DA67B0A90E@LarryRush> Message-ID: How to Clean Minerals on Christmas Eve Hello, everyone??. As you know, I like to clean my own minerals after collecting or buying them. On this, the Christmas Season, I thought I would share some of my cleaning secrets with my fellow rockhounds. Follow the instructions exactly as written below, and you will be sure to get the same excitement and enjoyment from your beautiful crystals that I do??.. Cheers, and??..Merry Christmas! Required cleaning devices and agents; Plastic gloves, plastic pail Oxalic Acid powder Ultrasonic Cleaner Muriatic Acid Household Detergent Cleaning Water Gun Phosphoric Acid Hand-held Dremel Steel wool soap pads Super Iron-Out powder Hot and cold running water source 1 bottle Jose Cuervo Tequila Start with a carefully filled level cup of the Cuervo to make sure of the quality. Drink this before doing anything else. This will insure that you have the necessary discipline of thought and action before starting the critical next steps. Next, make a solution of very hot water and detergent in a plastic pail, and mix thoroughly. Do not put on the gloves, as these dilute the sensitivity in your touch that you will need in handling the Cuervo that will be helpful in the succeeding steps. Take two sips more of the Cuervo to be sure your mind is clear and your touch is steady. Dip the specimen in and out of the hot water. Isn?t thish fun, see the bubbles! Turn on the Dremel and test the wire attachment on your mineral table to see if it works well?.whoops! Where did those scratches come from? Oh, well? take a sip of Cuervo, this is going to be a nong light! Dip your Dremel into the Phosphoric Acid (no, not the whole drill, you dummy) you need anodder drink! Throw the Dremel away, and load up the water gum with soapy water. Take another drink, to make sure that the Cuervo is still good. Umm, that is good, just one more before we get down to bishiness. Add a teaspoon of sugar, and mix with the cimmamon?.oh, sorry, wrong receipt! The damn directions on the Iron-Out are blurry, need to have my eyes checked by the Optomometer in the AM, but first, a little break and a fres cup of Cuervo. Darn, did I put my stir rod in the acid?? Next, sift 2 cups of soap pads in something or ever, who givesasheet anyways. Is this drink losting its tonsisticy? Maybe if I has another good slug of this joy-juice, I can stink fretter. Did I turn off the Dremmmer or is that still running in the pail of muritic acid?? Now where is that piece of rockite or whatever I was doing??can?t fine a thing escep this bottle of Cuervo. I hope my leg heels before my wif sees that burn! At these stage, you shud juss throw the stupid rok out the winder, drink up the las of the Cuervo, and wisch you had put up that tree a lot sooner. Cherry Fristmas! Merry Christmas to the Rockhounds Group! Larry Rush From gregaweis at msn.com Mon Dec 15 10:11:17 2008 From: gregaweis at msn.com (GREGORY WEISBROD) Date: Mon Dec 15 10:11:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite crashes, burns warehouse!!? In-Reply-To: <991061.81105.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <991061.81105.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The deposition (note geologic term) of such a valuable Martifact would be a terrible waste. This projectile project would cost a Phobos of water to plan and launch, much cheaper to hire it done locally.> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:49:33 -0800> From: jr50wv@yahoo.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite crashes, burns warehouse!!?> > Hi:> > I'm probably not the first to report that a meteorite (almost certainly directed by Martian Overlords! ;-) ) has crashed into a warehouse in Australia causing a fire:> > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547987> > Check it out!> > JR in WV, hiding in a deep mine from the space invaders! > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From corson at infodyn.com Mon Dec 15 10:26:27 2008 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Mon Dec 15 10:27:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Just added - rockhound gift certificates! Message-ID: <70D565EC88464D2A982E897DC444873B@Grimble> Fellow Collectors, I have just added the ability to purchase gift certificates online. Buy one for your favorite rockhound! They are available in denominations from $25.00 up. Also, don't forget everything online is still on sale through December 18th. 20% off all mineral specimens, tools, display stands and bases. Some specimens are 33% off. You may view them at http://obgrocks.com I only have this sale once a year and there are still some fine specimens to be had at great prices, so don't wait... Best Wishes and Happy Holidays! ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors ________________________________ From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Dec 15 12:04:09 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Dec 15 12:04:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! In-Reply-To: References: <9F01D7BF09C34C618499A4DA67B0A90E@LarryRush> Message-ID: <7B655049DD924B8D9D34B080A3E28116@AXELDESKTOP> Good work Lawwy... I would ploblably have drunk the mumia... murani... hum... the acid and thrown out the bottle. Or worse... I could have drunk the soap, raced to the toilet and shouted for toilet paper from inside the walkthrough closet... Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Lawrence Rush > Verzonden: maandag 15 december 2008 16:17 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Merry Christmas! > > How to Clean Minerals on Christmas Eve > > > > Hello, everyone... > > > > As you know, I like to clean my own minerals after collecting or buying > them. On this, the Christmas Season, I thought I would share some of my > cleaning secrets with my fellow rockhounds. Follow the instructions exactly > as written below, and you will be sure to get the same excitement and > enjoyment from your beautiful crystals that I do.... > > > > Cheers, and....Merry Christmas! > > > > > > Required cleaning devices and agents; > > > > Plastic gloves, plastic pail > > Oxalic Acid powder > > Ultrasonic Cleaner > > Muriatic Acid > > Household Detergent > > Cleaning Water Gun > > Phosphoric Acid > > Hand-held Dremel > > Steel wool soap pads > > Super Iron-Out powder > > Hot and cold running water source > > > > 1 bottle Jose Cuervo Tequila > > > > > > Start with a carefully filled level cup of the Cuervo to make sure of the > quality. Drink this before doing anything else. This will insure that you > have the necessary discipline of thought and action before starting the > critical next steps. > > > > Next, make a solution of very hot water and detergent in a plastic pail, and > mix thoroughly. Do not put on the gloves, as these dilute the sensitivity in > your touch that you will need in handling the Cuervo that will be helpful in > the succeeding steps. > > > > Take two sips more of the Cuervo to be sure your mind is clear and your > touch is steady. > > > > Dip the specimen in and out of the hot water. Isn't thish fun, see the > bubbles! > > > > Turn on the Dremel and test the wire attachment on your mineral table to see > if it works well..whoops! Where did those scratches come from? Oh, well. > take a sip of Cuervo, this is going to be a nong light! > > > > Dip your Dremel into the Phosphoric Acid (no, not the whole drill, you > dummy) you need anodder drink! > > > > Throw the Dremel away, and load up the water gum with soapy water. Take > another drink, to make sure that the Cuervo is still good. Umm, that is > good, just one more before we get down to bishiness. > > > > Add a teaspoon of sugar, and mix with the cimmamon..oh, sorry, wrong > receipt! > > > > The damn directions on the Iron-Out are blurry, need to have my eyes checked > by the Optomometer in the AM, but first, a little break and a fres cup of > Cuervo. Darn, did I put my stir rod in the acid?? > > > > Next, sift 2 cups of soap pads in something or ever, who givesasheet > anyways. Is this drink losting its tonsisticy? > > > > Maybe if I has another good slug of this joy-juice, I can stink fretter. Did > I turn off the Dremmmer or is that still running in the pail of muritic > acid?? Now where is that piece of rockite or whatever I was doing..can't > fine a thing escep this bottle of Cuervo. I hope my leg heels before my wif > sees that burn! > > > > At these stage, you shud juss throw the stupid rok out the winder, drink up > the las of the Cuervo, and wisch you had put up that tree a lot sooner. > > > > Cherry Fristmas! > > > > Merry Christmas to the Rockhounds Group! > > > > Larry Rush > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 16 18:22:31 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 16 18:22:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber Message-ID: <8F1059C1-CBE1-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> It has been described as a geologist's dream - a unique opportunity to study up close the volcanic processes that built the Earth's continents. Drillers looking for geothermal energy in Hawaii have inadvertently put a well right into a magma chamber. Molten rock pushed back up the borehole several metres before solidifying, making it perfectly safe to study. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7780873.stm From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Dec 16 19:16:45 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Dec 16 19:17:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber Message-ID: Hi again Kreigh, I just read this item you had posted. I hadn't seen this anywhere else yet. Very cool! Back in the late 1970s when I worked at Sandia Labs in New Mexico, the project we were working on was actually like this--to explore the concept of drilling into a large, hot, magma chamber, and extracting heat from it. This was pretty "far out"--I don't know if it ever could really work; when you encountered magma like this, you'd have to just push it out of the way & keep drilling through it! We never actually drilled into anything like this, though; but the lab did collaborate with the USGS in the research drilling into the Kilauea Iki lava lake, at that time mostly solidified but with just a little liquid lava still in its center. This paper was given at the AGU meeting in San Francisco; I'll be there (well, in Menlo Park), during the meeting this week, but I'm not actually going to go to it. bye again, Pete In a message dated 12/16/2008 7:22:44 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: It has been described as a geologist's dream - a unique opportunity to study up close the volcanic processes that built the Earth's continents. Drillers looking for geothermal energy in Hawaii have inadvertently put a well right into a magma chamber. Molten rock pushed back up the borehole several metres before solidifying, making it perfectly safe to study. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7780873.stm -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 16 20:45:06 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 16 20:44:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Pete, Since a successful geothermal energy company found the magma chamber in their exploration, your pioneering research must have worked in the long run. Time to stop wondering -- it works. Take a bow. Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008, at 22:16 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Hi again Kreigh, > > I just read this item you had posted. I hadn't seen this anywhere > else yet. > Very cool! Back in the late 1970s when I worked at Sandia Labs in > New > Mexico, the project we were working on was actually like this--to > explore the > concept of drilling into a large, hot, magma chamber, and extracting > heat from > it. This was pretty "far out"--I don't know if it ever could really > work; > when you encountered magma like this, you'd have to just push it out > of the way > & keep drilling through it! We never actually drilled into anything > like > this, though; but the lab did collaborate with the USGS in the > research drilling > into the Kilauea Iki lava lake, at that time mostly solidified but > with just > a little liquid lava still in its center. > > This paper was given at the AGU meeting in San Francisco; I'll be there > (well, in Menlo Park), during the meeting this week, but I'm not > actually going > to go to it. > > > bye again, > Pete > > > > > In a message dated 12/16/2008 7:22:44 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > It has been described as a geologist's dream - a unique opportunity to > study up close the volcanic processes that built the Earth's > continents. > > Drillers looking for geothermal energy in Hawaii have inadvertently > put > a well right into a magma chamber. > > Molten rock pushed back up the borehole several metres before > solidifying, making it perfectly safe to study. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7780873.stm > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kadok at infowest.com Wed Dec 17 08:41:39 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Dec 17 08:41:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber In-Reply-To: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <0CB3B89F95604EFA9A6762F0F1A44C79@kadok> Sort of reminds me of something else -- my uncle, a Doctor in Jerome Idaho, got the "refrigerated air" to air condition his office by just drilling down a ways into on of the underground ice caves that were (are still??) fairly common around there. Margaret, snowed in in southern Utah! >Hi Pete, >Since a successful geothermal energy company found the magma chamber in >their exploration, your pioneering research must have worked in the >long run. >Time to stop wondering -- it works. >Take a bow. >Kreigh From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Dec 17 08:51:17 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Dec 17 08:51:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber References: <8F1059C1-CBE1-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <80F53539370941E58D6A7A1DE418C9F2@Junior> This is just plain cool. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7780873.stm T From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Dec 17 11:18:22 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 17 11:19:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber In-Reply-To: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8CB2E935CB84D18-258-70B@WEBMAIL-DZ03.sysops.aol.com> Of course, they didn't actually drill into "THE" magma chamber that feeds Kilauea Volcano, it is just probably a small body of magma that was intruded, as a dike or other small intrusion, off to the side somewhere, and has been slowly cooling and crystallizing since the intrusion event. And actually, there is a story that when a magma intrusion episode took place in Iceland, near the site of a geothermal steam plant, some lava or ash was actually erupted out of one of the geothermal drill holes.? (I just tried to check this online, this was at the Krafla power plant in central Iceland, I did find a description of steam explosions that blew out one of the drill holes and formed a crater, in the 1970s:) ? ?Well No. 4 was being drilled at this site here when suddenly an underground steam explosion managed to get its way to the surface. People drilling the hole with a giant rig were just able to pull it out of the way and get to safety when the steam exploded and dug a crater that's more than 100 feet deep and about as wide.? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16780339 You've got to be careful doing this kind of stuff!? The drillers in Hawaii, luckily, only hit a "calm" body of non-gassy cooling lava that didn't come into any violent contact with groundwater. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 1 6 Dec 2008 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Drillers break into magma chamber Hi Pete,? ? Since a successful geothermal energy company found the magma chamber in their exploration, your pioneering research must have worked in the long run.? ? Time to stop wondering -- it works.? ? Take a bow.? ? Kreigh? ? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Dec 17 16:37:00 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Dec 17 16:36:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals References: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <0CB3B89F95604EFA9A6762F0F1A44C79@kadok> Message-ID: <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> I have had a request for help from a Swedish mineral professor. Anyone who can answer this, I will forward it to him! "Have you ever been involved as a professional dealer setting up a contract with a mining company in order to preserve minerals for the future? Now whom I can get some tips from? I am interested to organize such a contract here in Sweden but need a little more data about what such a contract stipulates (etc, etc), and also perhaps (if possible) to get feedback from a mining company (whats their benefits& costs). I think that browsing through a number of articles in the Min Rec. and making copies of relevant parts ain't enough when I will speak to the company officials." Alan From betdav97 at aol.com Wed Dec 17 18:36:34 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Wed Dec 17 18:36:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals In-Reply-To: <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> References: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><0CB3B89F95604EFA9A6762F0F1A44C79@kadok> <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> Message-ID: <8CB2ED093B3BB46-230-1F7B@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> Alan, Try Casey Jones at Geoprime Minerals. He and his wife, Jane have agreements with mines in Nevada and Minnesota for just that purpose. His e-mail is: xlmine@ix.netcom.com, dave -----Original Message----- From: Alan Goldstein To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 7:37 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals I have had a request for help from a Swedish mineral professor. Anyone who can answer this, I will forward it to him! "Have you ever been involved as a professional dealer setting up a contract with a mining company in order to preserve minerals for the future? Now whom I can get some tips from? I am interested to organize such a contract here in Sweden but need a little more data about what such a contract stipulates (etc, etc), and also perhaps (if possible) to get feedback from a mining company (whats their benefits& costs). I think that browsing through a number of articles in the Min Rec. and making copies of relevant parts ain't enough when I will speak to the company officials." Alan -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Wed Dec 17 19:36:00 2008 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Wed Dec 17 19:36:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Any Suggestions for Rocks/Minerals in the Panama Area? Message-ID: <20081217193559.3C05F2E1@dm52.mta.everyone.net> Hello All. I've got two new members to our rock club (Toledo Gem and Rockhound club, www.rockyreader.com) that are going to Panama soon. (Central America) They are interested in any tips / locations / contacts in the Panama area. They seem rather versed in various South American countries that they have visited in the past, and understand the dangers of street sales, etc... Looking for info like what they would look for (geographically, Minerals or fossils, etc..) or if anyone has any area's that might be worth visiting, etc.. I'm also sending them information about the list, so they may reply back instead of me after they join up. Thanks, -Steve Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com http://www.shimatzki.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 17 19:36:41 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 17 19:36:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals In-Reply-To: <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> Message-ID: <158AD0B8-CCB5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> I have not been involved in such an arrangement, but I think it is an interesting question. Sounds like a good topic for some discussion. I think we can start with the premise that a good quality specimen can bring in as much revenue as several hundred pounds of ore (or more, depending on the ore, and the quality of the specimen). The mine may also see some goodwill benefits and positive public relations from making specimens available. Offsetting this is the extra time and handling needed to remove any specimens from the ore stream and deliver it to the collector's market. Interrupting the mining process to extract specimens may also pose some safety risk. Teaching miners to recognize and safely extract valuable specimens may add some training overhead. Several mines that are not economically viable for ore have proved to be lucrative when mined for just specimens. I know there is one copper mine in the Keweenaw Peninsula that has been operating in this manner for years, and I have heard of others. The methods used in mining may make a big difference in whether it is a viable option. If they blast a rock face and harvest the rubble, having someone review the rubble for specimens before it is scooped up might be profitable. If the face is ground out by automated machinery it might not, but there could be an opportunity to pick specimens off a conveyor belt as the ore is delivered to the surface. Mining lore is full of stories about miners taking out specimens in their lunch pails to augment their income. If a vug or pocket is encountered while mining it may be profitable to suspend operations and harvest the specimens. Some mines may find it profitable to divert some of their regular ore stream into the collectors market. If a mine regularly has collectors going over its dumps, it should be able to sell mine run ore profitably to collectors. I have traded specimens with mine geologists. Part of their job is to understand ore deposits by taking periodic (random) specimens for study as mining proceeds to better understand the three dimensional structure of the deposit. The more a mine knows about the structure of the deposit they are working, the better their chances of finding another deposit to mine (and getting more profit from the deposit they are working). Selling the specimens already being collected for study could offset the costs of collecting and studying them. Kreigh On Wednesday, Dec 17, 2008, at 19:37 America/Detroit, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I have had a request for help from a Swedish mineral professor. Anyone > who > can answer this, I will forward it to him! > > "Have you ever been involved as a professional dealer setting up a > contract > with a mining company in order to preserve minerals for the future? > Now whom > I can get some tips from? > I am interested to organize such a contract here in Sweden but need a > little > more data about what such a contract stipulates (etc, etc), and also > perhaps > (if possible) to get feedback from a mining company (whats their > benefits& > costs). I think that browsing through a number of articles in the Min > Rec. > and making copies of relevant parts ain't enough when I will speak to > the > company officials." > > Alan > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From corson at infodyn.com Wed Dec 17 19:24:15 2008 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Wed Dec 17 20:01:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Working with mining companies to save minerals Message-ID: <857BC05390DF413E873902B9CAE95BBE@Grimble> Two individuals come to mind, both of whom pioneered this sort of thing: Brian Lees of Collectors Edge Wayne Thompson in Phoenix Contact info for both can readily be found on the web... HTH, TC ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors ________________________________ From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 08:36:48 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Dec 18 08:36:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals In-Reply-To: <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> Message-ID: <993839.1123.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Alan, John & Gail Deck from SE Michigan have a contract with at least one of the limestone quarries in the OH/MI area. You probably remember them- they had a load of blue celestine at Bloomington a few years. They were right next to me, by the side door of the new building. I don't have an address or e-mail, just a phone number: (734) 847-6537 Jim Daly --- On Wed, 12/17/08, Alan Goldstein wrote: From: Alan Goldstein Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 4:37 PM I have had a request for help from a Swedish mineral professor. Anyone who can answer this, I will forward it to him! "Have you ever been involved as a professional dealer setting up a contract with a mining company in order to preserve minerals for the future? Now whom I can get some tips from? I am interested to organize such a contract here in Sweden but need a little more data about what such a contract stipulates (etc, etc), and also perhaps (if possible) to get feedback from a mining company (whats their benefits& costs). I think that browsing through a number of articles in the Min Rec. and making copies of relevant parts ain't enough when I will speak to the company officials." Alan -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Wed Dec 17 17:46:35 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 18 12:07:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals In-Reply-To: <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> References: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><0CB3B89F95604EFA9A6762F0F1A44C79@kadok> <72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> Message-ID: <8CB2EC99814E9E0-51C-4DD@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Alan, Try Casey Jones of Geoprime Minerals He and his wife, Jane, work out deals with companies from Nevada and Minnesota. His e-mail is: xlmine@ix.netcom.com dave -----Original Message----- From: Alan Goldstein To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 7:37 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals I have had a request for help from a Swedish mineral professor. Anyone who can answer this, I will forward it to him! "Have you ever been involved as a professional dealer setting up a contract with a mining company in order to preserve minerals for the future? Now whom I can get some tips from? I am interested to organize such a contract here in Sweden but need a little more data about what such a contract stipulates (etc, etc), and also perhaps (if possible) to get feedback from a mining company (whats their benefits& costs). I think that browsing through a number of articles in the Min Rec. and making copies of relevant parts ain't enough when I will speak to the company officials." Alan -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Dec 18 14:15:53 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Dec 18 14:19:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Working with mining companies to save minerals In-Reply-To: <8CB2EC99814E9E0-51C-4DD@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> References: <7A2C4F11-CBF5-11DD-85B8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><0CB3B89F95604EFA9A6762F0F1A44C79@kadok><72AD9BE784634B778BC7A89D82BE948A@Goldstein> <8CB2EC99814E9E0-51C-4DD@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB2F75538319E7-C24-3DA@webmail-md01.sysops.aol.com> I apologize for the double posts, this must be the one that disappeared into the ether. I had sent one, and it didn't even appear in sent mail, so I sent another. Sometimes the internet is just plain weird. From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Thu Dec 18 15:43:33 2008 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Thu Dec 18 15:43:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence In-Reply-To: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> ______________________________________________ On 2008.Dec.12., at 1719, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > I have several pieces of halite from Searles Lake in California and > almost all of them fluoresce and phosphoresce white under SW UV. > One piece, however---which I got form John Betts four years ago--- > fluoresced a brilliant red-orange in a picture he posted to his > site, and when I received it. The specimen was a pinkish white > under natural light, like most of my others. I keep them all in an > air-conditioned room because with our humidity here they would soon > end up as a puddle of salty water. Now I find that the one from > Betts has changed to an ugly gray in daylight and does not > fluoresce at all any more. Anyone have an idea of what has > happened? I'm guessing that it has to do with microbes or algae in > the water of the lake, but I don't understand why one piece would > be so different from the others which came from the same lake. > Aloha, Kitty ______________________________________________________________ I do not know why it would have turned gray or why it has lost its fluorescence. But I was at Searles Lake last October and collected a number of pieces of pink Halite. It is commonly known that you have to keep it in total darkness, otherwise the pink will disappear in a short time. It will fade to just the normally white Halite. In the past it was assumed that the pink colouring was caused by Bacteria living in the brine. And that is what they still tell you at Searles Lake. But new research has shown that it really comes from a life-form which is different from Bacteria and Eukaryotes (all plants and animals). This life-form is called Archaea, specifically Haloarchaea. See : http://stri.discoverlife.org/mp/20m?tree=Archaea&res=800 Under the influence of light these Haloarchaea become dormant and the halite loses its colour. Maybe its fluorescence as well. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Dec 18 21:38:21 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Dec 18 21:39:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> Message-ID: <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> Howdy List, Several years ago I was traveling cross country as an itinerant handyman and stopped on my way to camp by the Missouri River south of Pierre, SD. The next morning I was wading in the river mud and came across an item that has me stumped. It's a slightly squashed sphere measuring about 4cm in diameter with a 1cm hole that runs halfway through. This hole is not threaded. The item is soft (hardness is about 2), dark chocolate brown, somewhat leathery, substantial but not heavy. It has a few grooves on the exterior that suggest segmentation but not all the way around. Man-made artifact? Fossil? Alien? If anyone cares to guess, photo at http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/ Thanks - John 23" of snow and counting in Santa, ID From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 19 02:52:11 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 19 02:52:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> Message-ID: <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> John, Could this be a civil war hand grenade or artillery ordnance? I found this text: " Canister projectiles - grape shot This was a type of ordnance that had widespread use. Essentially, it was shotshell in the cannonball that was sent screaming into opposition lines. When it was fired from the cannon and exploded in the combat field, the canister inside the ordnance burst open as well - spraying lead pellets very similar to the way a shotgun spreads buckshot. This was an extremely effective way for shorter range cannons to inflict large casualties on opposing armies. " This webpage http://www.historynet.com/grenade-the-little-known-weapon-of-the-civil-war.h tm has (third paragraph) a short description of something that looks like your find. Cheers Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: vrijdag 19 december 2008 6:38 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > Howdy List, > > Several years ago I was traveling cross country as an itinerant handyman and > stopped on my way to camp by the Missouri River south of Pierre, SD. The > next morning I was wading in the river mud and came across an item that has > me stumped. It's a slightly squashed sphere measuring about 4cm in diameter > with a 1cm hole that runs halfway through. This hole is not threaded. The > item is soft (hardness is about 2), dark chocolate brown, somewhat leathery, > substantial but not heavy. It has a few grooves on the exterior that suggest > segmentation but not all the way around. Man-made artifact? Fossil? Alien? > > If anyone cares to guess, photo at > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/ > > Thanks - John > 23" of snow and counting in Santa, ID > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 19 03:10:25 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 19 03:10:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence In-Reply-To: <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> Message-ID: > > Under the influence of light these Haloarchaea become dormant and the > halite loses its colour. > Maybe its fluorescence as well. [Axel] Hilmar, I've never been at Searles Lake but from the images I've seen I would say that this is pretty much a "desert-like" environment. Light is abundant so the haloarchaea loosing color as a result of it would appear strange since light belongs to their natural habitat. The pink color would be the result of a self-protection mechanism (rhodopsine-independent photorepellant ;-))) The organism probably absorbs the shortest wavelengths (from UV to green) for energy or protection and thus reflects pink light (or reddish). Extracting the organism from the wet conditions (the brine) in which it thrives is probably more lethal than shining light on them. At least, that's my two cents ;-))) Axel From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Dec 19 03:42:39 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Fri Dec 19 03:48:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> Message-ID: <494B88AF.80508@hal-pc.org> John Siebel wrote: > Howdy List, > > Several years ago I was traveling cross country as an itinerant > handyman and stopped on my way to camp by the Missouri River south of > Pierre, SD. The next morning I was wading in the river mud and came > across an item that has me stumped. It's a slightly squashed sphere > measuring about 4cm in diameter with a 1cm hole that runs halfway > through. This hole is not threaded. The item is soft (hardness is > about 2), dark chocolate brown, somewhat leathery, substantial but not > heavy. It has a few grooves on the exterior that suggest segmentation > but not all the way around. Man-made artifact? Fossil? Alien? > > If anyone cares to guess, photo at > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/ > > Thanks - John > 23" of snow and counting in Santa, ID > Is it leather? Perhaps a leather button or ornament for a carriage...? john From albalmer at copper.net Fri Dec 19 07:26:55 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Dec 19 07:27:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Halite losing fluorescence In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> Message-ID: <13fnk4tlel75b105rh0rrqpru5s4c854p8@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:10:25 +0100, "Axel Emmermann" wrote: > Extracting the organism from the wet conditions (the brine) in which it >thrives is probably more lethal than shining light on them. No theories, but I have another data point, at least. I have a large specimen of halite from Searles Lake that's unchanged since we bought it, about half varying shades of pink. This is after being in my garage for two years, where it's usually dim but not dark. Never any direct sunlight after we brought it home from the Mesa show. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Dec 19 08:47:29 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Dec 19 08:47:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <494B88AF.80508@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <3613D7D6F1C0430A86B2BFA26D185DBB@Junior> soft and leathery, found in river = seed pod of some kind T ----- Original Message ----- From: "jb" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > John Siebel wrote: >> Howdy List, >> >> Several years ago I was traveling cross country as an itinerant handyman >> and stopped on my way to camp by the Missouri River south of Pierre, SD. >> The next morning I was wading in the river mud and came across an item >> that has me stumped. It's a slightly squashed sphere measuring about 4cm >> in diameter with a 1cm hole that runs halfway through. This hole is not >> threaded. The item is soft (hardness is about 2), dark chocolate brown, >> somewhat leathery, substantial but not heavy. It has a few grooves on the >> exterior that suggest segmentation but not all the way around. Man-made >> artifact? Fossil? Alien? >> >> If anyone cares to guess, photo at >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/ >> >> Thanks - John >> 23" of snow and counting in Santa, ID >> > Is it leather? Perhaps a leather button or ornament for a carriage...? > > > > > john > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 19 12:50:19 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 19 12:51:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> Axel Wrote: > Could this be a civil war hand grenade or artillery ordnance? > " Canister projectiles - grape shot Kind of small for a grenade and it wouldn't hold much powder. Too light (I think) for grape shot...and why the hole? jb Wrote: >Is it leather? Perhaps a leather button or ornament for a carriage...? Don't think it's leather unless it has become petrified. Awfully big for a button. Tim Wrote: >= seed pod of some kind That's possible. But Julie and I are guessing that it might be ceramic. The hole leads me to believe that it was attached to a rod in some way. Perhaps as drawer pull, door knob, top to a walking stick or as jb suggested, a carriage ornament. I'm still open to suggestion but, for now, it is labelled as Unknown Artifact. Thanks all - John With now over 2 feet of new and improved snow From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Dec 19 14:19:07 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:19:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> Message-ID: <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> John, I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I have no idea how they got there, but for some reason they are there. dave -----Original Message----- From: John Siebel To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 3:50 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact Axel Wrote:? > Could this be a civil war hand grenade or artillery ordnance?? > " Canister projectiles - grape shot? ? Kind of small for a grenade and it wouldn't hold much powder. Too light (I think) for grape shot...and why the hole?? ? jb Wrote:? >Is it leather? Perhaps a leather button or ornament for a carriage...?? ? Don't think it's leather unless it has become petrified. Awfully big for a button.? ? Tim Wrote:? >= seed pod of some kind? ? That's possible. But Julie and I are guessing that it might be ceramic. The hole leads me to believe that it was attached to a rod in some way. Perhaps as drawer pull, door knob, top to a walking stick or as jb suggested, a carriage ornament. I'm still open to suggestion but, for now, it is labelled as Unknown Artifact.? ? Thanks all - John? With now over 2 feet of new an d improved snow? ? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 19 14:28:55 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:29:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> Message-ID: <1ED3006AF2C1465A97530652FF504DD6@AXELDESKTOP> > Kind of small for a grenade and it wouldn't hold much powder. Too light (I > think) for grape shot...and why the hole? [Axel] Fuse? From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Dec 19 14:28:43 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:29:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <008201c96229$27041550$750c3ff0$@com> Because rednecks like to roll dead cars into streams. No I am NOT speaking from personal experience! :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:19 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact John, I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I have no idea how they got there, but for some reason they are there. dave From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 19 14:30:43 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:32:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if it brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm researching that now. John ----- Original Message ----- From: John, I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I have no idea how they got there, but for some reason they are there. dave From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Dec 19 14:32:23 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:32:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <494C20F7.9070105@hawaiiantel.net> That's a good idea, but I think the knob would be threaded inside the hole, wouldn't it? The 1933 car my dad had when I was a kid had a leather knob with a metal threaded insert...wait, the leather cover could have pulled off the threaded part. Never mind. Aloha, Kitty betdav97@aol.com wrote: > John, > I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob > shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. > Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I > have no idea how they got there, but for some reason > they are there. > dave From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 19 14:37:01 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:38:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <1ED3006AF2C1465A97530652FF504DD6@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <89D6EA33784D4350B7AD3336D616AA3C@Notebook> Wiki tells me that Bakelite was named after it's Belgian inventor, Dr. Leo Baekeland and was the world's first synthetic plastic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite John From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 14:45:50 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:45:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040812191445p54d8289exceb76af056386353@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:30 PM, John Siebel wrote: > That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if it > brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm > researching that now. > > John > Bakelite has a distinctive smell when rubbed vigorously (warmed?)... I am not sure that you could tell with the "specimen" you have, but that is something I remember from my antique mall clerking days... Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Dec 19 14:56:24 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 19 14:56:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> They wouldn't be brass or metallic, but some material that is almost like an agate. -----Original Message----- From: John Siebel To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if it brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm researching that now.? ? John? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: ? ? John,? ?I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob? shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck.? Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I? have no idea how they got there, but for some reason? they are there.? dave? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Dec 19 16:26:44 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Dec 19 16:26:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> Message-ID: It looks like the head of a rammer that was used to load smoothbore cannon. You can see one illustrated about a quarter of the way down this page http://www.uppercanadahistory.ca/1812/18125.html Kreigh On Friday, Dec 19, 2008, at 00:38 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > Howdy List, > > Several years ago I was traveling cross country as an itinerant > handyman and stopped on my way to camp by the Missouri River south of > Pierre, SD. The next morning I was wading in the river mud and came > across an item that has me stumped. It's a slightly squashed sphere > measuring about 4cm in diameter with a 1cm hole that runs halfway > through. This hole is not threaded. The item is soft (hardness is > about 2), dark chocolate brown, somewhat leathery, substantial but not > heavy. It has a few grooves on the exterior that suggest segmentation > but not all the way around. Man-made artifact? Fossil? Alien? > > If anyone cares to guess, photo at > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/ > > Thanks - John > 23" of snow and counting in Santa, ID > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Fri Dec 19 17:17:25 2008 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Fri Dec 19 17:17:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> Message-ID: _______________________________________________________________ On 2008.Dec.19., at 0310, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > [Axel] Hilmar, I've never been at Searles Lake but from the images > I've seen > I would say that this is pretty much a "desert-like" environment. > Light is abundant so the haloarchaea loosing color as a result of > it would > appear strange since light belongs to their natural habitat. > The pink color would be the result of a self-protection mechanism > (rhodopsine-independent photorepellant ;-))) > The organism probably absorbs the shortest wavelengths (from UV to > green) > for energy or protection and thus reflects pink light (or reddish). > > Extracting the organism from the wet conditions (the brine) in > which it > thrives is probably more lethal than shining light on them. > At least, that's my two cents ;-))) ________________________________________________________________________ _ Kitty and Axel. I do not know anything about the disappearing fluorescence of the Halite. It was just a guess that it might disappear along with the fading of the pink colour. However I know for sure that the pink colour fades away with exposure to light. This is my own and everybody elses experience who has ever collected the pink Halite from Searles lake. This is also what the people in Trona will tell you. Keep it in the dark ! Out in the light the colour fades substantially within two month. Kept in the dark, inside a drawer or such, it probably lasts 10 years or so. Axel, if you do not believe this, you will just have to come over and collect some of it yourself. It is a lot of fun and quite an experience. I would recommend it to anybody. If you get the chance, go collect at Searles Lake ! Every year, second weekend of October. The Halite Crystals (up to 2 cm on the side), white and / or pink, are just one of numerous Evaporates which can be collected. Hanksite crystals up to 15cm, and others. My information is that the pink colour is from carotine (not from manganese). Just like the Flamingos. See : http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/geology.htm http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/GEM-O-RAMA.htm Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Dec 19 17:26:06 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Dec 19 17:26:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite district article Message-ID: <81F0CAD2A1DB491ABB572E750C2D9EE9@Goldstein> I stumbled on the text on my 1997 article on the IL-KY fluorite district at: http://www.articlearchives.com/science-technology/earth-atmospheric-science/1029450-1.html Sorry no pictures! Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at copper.net Fri Dec 19 18:00:54 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Dec 19 18:00:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <494C20F7.9070105@hawaiiantel.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> <494C20F7.9070105@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:32:23 -1000, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >That's a good idea, but I think the knob would be threaded inside the >hole, wouldn't it? The 1933 car my dad had when I was a kid had a >leather knob with a metal threaded insert...wait, the leather cover >could have pulled off the threaded part. Never mind. Or the metal insert could have corroded away. > >Aloha, Kitty > >betdav97@aol.com wrote: >> John, >> I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob >> shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. >> Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I >> have no idea how they got there, but for some reason >> they are there. >> dave -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 18:28:13 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Fri Dec 19 18:28:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howdy, y'all! and AD: Searles Lake Halite Message-ID: <831c9ad10812191828j215d8334mb76eacd8eccfe638@mail.gmail.com> At last, dear Rockhounds list, I've found you! My name is Kris, I live in Fresno, California and operate (along with my significant other Laura) our Lapidary and Mineral business, Lapidary Specialties. We're brand new to the list, and to the business as well. I've been a rockhound all of my life, and a Lapidary since 1979. Laura is a newer Rockhound and Beader, and LOVES going on collecting trips! We specialize (at this time) in California minerals and cutting materials, custom cut cabochons, beads and wearable sculpture. We have a small (1 ton) inventory of cutting materials of many types, and gladly lend help to rockhounds who're looking for places to collect while in Central California. I love leading field trips and urge folks who're planning on visiting or traveling through our area to drop me a line if you want to do some trading or collecting! At present, we have freshly collected and dried Halite from Searles Lake, Trona, California. Our auctions can be found at eBay: Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW RESERVE! Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW RESERVE! Halite, INCREDIBLE Hoppered Cubes, Museum, LOW RESERVE! I have over 100 high quality Halite specimen clusters available for immediate purchase and shipment. I've got pics of all, and will send pics to any who request. In addition, I'm presently cleaning and treating many fine Hanksite single Crystals and Clusters (see *The Mud Field Trip )*, and will be posting them to auction as soon as I'm happy with them! We also have a lot Halite and Hanksite from the Searles Lake "Blow Hole" collecting area. *The Blow Hole Minerals * will give you an idea of the cleaned crystals. At this time, I've classified much of this material, but haven't cleaned any the rougher crystals. I'll give more info about myself and Laura in future posts, and talk more about the various minerals and gemstones we have available, and those we collect here in CentCal. We've been pretty much ignored as a collecting area, and what we have here will surprise you! (See Mindat - Fresno Co. ) Happy Holidays! Kris & Laura Lapidary Specialties Fresno, Ca. P.S: We do all sales through eBay, to insure that transactions and payments go smoothly. I do have a long trading "wishlist", so after we get to know you, we might be amenable to trading. Just ask! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Dec 19 20:29:13 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Dec 19 20:29:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact Message-ID: This reminds me of many unknown "rocks" we are asked to help identify. I was with Axel on the grape shot possibility until you checked it as non-metallic. Do we have a botanist? I think the seed pod theory could well still prove in. Or very hard old wood like hickory or walnut. The leathery So could the shifter or walking cane knob. They were, and are still, made from everything on earth, and likely bits of meteorites also. You mentioned ceramic too. What is the specific gravity? Could be an ancient petrified egg. 4cm is pretty small for an Indian war club, but the native Americans also made toys for their tots.Thought provoking. Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Dec 19 21:20:46 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Dec 19 21:21:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: Message-ID: <3CF4E67C7EC3415D896A9A8DD645A817@Notebook> Glenn, I have no scale to measure specific gravity but I should be able to borrow one. I would assume that even the hard woods would float (this doesn't) unless petrified? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact This reminds me of many unknown "rocks" we are asked to help identify. I was with Axel on the grape shot possibility until you checked it as non-metallic. Do we have a botanist? I think the seed pod theory could well still prove in. Or very hard old wood like hickory or walnut. The leathery So could the shifter or walking cane knob. They were, and are still, made from everything on earth, and likely bits of meteorites also. You mentioned ceramic too. What is the specific gravity? Could be an ancient petrified egg. 4cm is pretty small for an Indian war club, but the native Americans also made toys for their tots.Thought provoking. Glenn From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 20 03:02:22 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 20 03:02:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> Message-ID: <634760D066A04C0EBE8BDD1BB65B1F22@AXELDESKTOP> > It looks like the head of a rammer that was used to load smoothbore > cannon. [Axel] Smoothbore is older than rifled... could be you're right, Kreigh. Indeed, 4 inch is a bit small for an explosive charge unless it was meant as an incendiary charge. Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Dec 20 03:07:29 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Dec 20 03:07:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <3CF4E67C7EC3415D896A9A8DD645A817@Notebook> References: <3CF4E67C7EC3415D896A9A8DD645A817@Notebook> Message-ID: <51CBEE7DD0FE42409D2C6AF9BD373A4F@AXELDESKTOP> Wood sucks up water. Eventually tree logs that are transported by floating downstream rivers will sink if they remain in the water long enough. I think that if this object were manmade it wouldn't have had the time to get petrified yet, would it? Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: zaterdag 20 december 2008 6:21 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > Glenn, > > I have no scale to measure specific gravity but I should be able to borrow > one. I would assume that even the hard woods would float (this doesn't) > unless petrified? > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn Wimpee" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:29 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > From steve at crocoite.com Sat Dec 20 04:10:30 2008 From: steve at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?steve?=) Date: Sat Dec 20 04:10:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Mineralogy, Geology & Related Books... Message-ID: <20081220121030.21391.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all and Season's Greetings to you. I will be moving house soon. In fact, its less than 5 weeks away. Aaarrrgghhh!!! I have been packing up the books in my library and realise that I have far too many. So I am selling some of the mineralogy (including a number of Danas), geology and related subject books on the OZtion auction site. There are more to come. If you are interested, here is the link --> http://www.tinyurl.com/oztion Regards Steve crocoite.com has been revamped! Check it out at http://www.crocoite.com/ Me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=576254808 From kcbaran at arczip.com Sat Dec 20 12:36:07 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Sat Dec 20 12:36:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howdy, y'all! and AD: Searles Lake Halite In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812191828j215d8334mb76eacd8eccfe638@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10812191828j215d8334mb76eacd8eccfe638@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <494D5737.9000708@arczip.com> Kris: (as in Kris Kringle?) Welcome to the list. You will find some of the best, most knowledgeable, kind, helpful folks here. I do have a question for you about a rock hunting site. It is in Gem Trails of Northern Calif, page 162, site 68, "Big Pine": What is the "trick" to finding the larger crystals? My wife, Kathy, and I have been there twice (only to be run off by t-storms) but have only found small stuff and no smoky quarts. Also, what side/area of the hill is the best area to hunt? Thank you and Merry Christmas. Chuck Baran >At last, dear Rockhounds list, I've found you! > >My name is Kris, I live in Fresno, California and operate (along with my >significant other Laura) >our Lapidary and Mineral business, Lapidary Specialties. We're brand new to >the list, and to >the business as well. >I've been a rockhound all of my life, and a Lapidary since 1979. Laura is a >newer Rockhound >and Beader, and LOVES going on collecting trips! We specialize (at this >time) in California >minerals and cutting materials, custom cut cabochons, beads and wearable >sculpture. >We have a small (1 ton) inventory of cutting materials of many types, and >gladly lend help to >rockhounds who're looking for places to collect while in Central California. >I love leading field trips and urge folks who're planning on visiting or >traveling through our >area to drop me a line if you want to do some trading or collecting! > >At present, we have freshly collected and dried Halite from Searles Lake, >Trona, California. >Our auctions can be found at eBay: > >Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW >RESERVE! > >Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW >RESERVE! > Halite, INCREDIBLE Hoppered Cubes, Museum, LOW >RESERVE! > >I have over 100 high quality Halite specimen clusters available for >immediate purchase and shipment. >I've got pics of all, and will send pics to any who request. > >In addition, I'm presently cleaning and treating many fine Hanksite single >Crystals and Clusters (see >*The Mud Field Trip )*, >and will be posting them to auction as soon as I'm happy with them! > >We also have a lot Halite and Hanksite from the Searles Lake "Blow Hole" >collecting area. >*The Blow Hole Minerals >* will give you an idea of the cleaned crystals. At this time, I've >classified much >of this material, but haven't cleaned any the rougher crystals. > >I'll give more info about myself and Laura in future posts, and talk more >about the various minerals and >gemstones we have available, and those we collect here in CentCal. We've >been pretty much ignored as >a collecting area, and what we have here will surprise you! (See Mindat - >Fresno Co. ) > >Happy Holidays! > >Kris & Laura >Lapidary Specialties >Fresno, Ca. > >P.S: We do all sales through eBay, to insure that transactions and payments >go smoothly. I do have a long >trading "wishlist", so after we get to know you, we might be amenable to >trading. Just ask! > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- > > From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 15:54:07 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Dec 20 15:54:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! I can vouch that Searles Lake Pink & Green Halite *does*fade due to sunlight exposure. SVG&MS has many displays in their HUGE clubhouse, and those that are exposed to direct sunlight fade quickly, many by as much as 2/3 of their original color, by comparison with freshly collected material. They have TONS of Pink Halite for sale at their clubhouse, and (sadly, I think) their "Halite showroom" is in a courtyard-facing area, and receives "shaded" sunlight. Hence, most of the material offered for retail sale there is far less intensely colored than the fresh, carefully preserved material. This isn't a criticism, just an observation on how ease of collecting can lead to nonchalance! *grin!* Much of the Halite that looks best, and will preserve best, isn't even faintly pink! We found plates that remind one of plates of other minerals such as quartz and pyromorphite, with clear, transparent to deep wine color. Though the wild crystals you'll see in the "best" pinks are unique, my favorite pieces range from clear "zoned" cubes that appear to be colorless fluorite, to elongated "hopper" cubes, to pink to "snow" white pearlescent forms with "frost". The best rival fine Apophyllite in their pearlescence! I'll be happy to post pics to the list when I learn how, or you can visit my blog at R & R Rockhound to see them as I post them. (Yeah, they aren't all posted yet ... I'm busy having a life! *grin!*) I'm documenting the steps I take in collecting, preparing and displaying my Halite, for a future article. At present, I'm keeping my display pieces in dim, very dry conditions, except when they're actually being viewed. The toughest part of displaying them is drying them after collection. Be sure that you wrap them in newspaper, and nest them carefully in a sturdy container, such as a tote, since they're VERY fragile when wet! When you arrive home, you'll find the drying has just begun! ASAP, change the newspaper! Be sure to keep the Halite warm while drying, to avoid "dew" frosting, which will build when temperatures drop. Keep changing paper every few days, until the paper feels dry to the touch. Then change the paper a few more times. If you are impatient, you can use "Flower Dry" (Silica Gel) desiccant to hasten drying. I prefer to use the ubiquitous packets, which are used in packing nearly everything these days. I buy mine on eBay, for pennies apiece. I then allow them to sit in the open in a cool, dry place. This is because they quite literally *stink!* The smell, which I like to describe as "Satan's Undershorts", is due to H2O reacting with Sulfur, creating Hydrogen Sulfide. BTW, could this, along with oxidation, be another cause of color loss? The specimens that I have on eBay were dried for a *month* before cleaning and photographing for "possible" sale. (Yes, I too suffer from separation anxiety when it comes to "my babies!") Now that mine are dry, I keep them *very* dry! I also store them in as dim a place as possible, a sheltered china or curio cabinet works well. Be aware that, if you store them too early, you'll smell that stink every time you open the case! Be sure to place desiccant packs in the case to complete drying, and to assure dry storage conditions. What will happen if you ignore my sage advice? Well, at a rockshop (I won't embarass them by saying which), the proprietor showed me a piece to "explain" why he doesn't stock more Pink Halite. The piece had been left, fully exposed to light, *dirctly under the swamp cooler!* After a year, it was a sad, indistinct, faded "lump" of salt. Just between us, I don't find laziness and mishandling to be a good reason to "dis" a very attractive material. With proper care, as seen in a multitude of museums, Halite *can* be a legacy specimen material. Just see the specimen from 1959, currently for sale on eBay. So, thanks for reading my looooong post, and helping me to write my article! Be sure to lok at my pics and auctions, and enjoy the variety and beauty of Halite. Next up ... Hanksite, with and without Borax! Be Well, y'all! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Hilmar Krocke wrote: > _______________________________________________________________ > On 2008.Dec.19., at 0310, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> >> [Axel] Hilmar, I've never been at Searles Lake but from the images I've >> seen >> I would say that this is pretty much a "desert-like" environment. >> Light is abundant so the haloarchaea loosing color as a result of it would >> appear strange since light belongs to their natural habitat. >> The pink color would be the result of a self-protection mechanism >> (rhodopsine-independent photorepellant ;-))) >> The organism probably absorbs the shortest wavelengths (from UV to green) >> for energy or protection and thus reflects pink light (or reddish). >> >> Extracting the organism from the wet conditions (the brine) in which it >> thrives is probably more lethal than shining light on them. >> At least, that's my two cents ;-))) >> > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Kitty and Axel. I do not know anything about the disappearing fluorescence > of the Halite. > It was just a guess that it might disappear along with the fading of the > pink colour. > However I know for sure that the pink colour fades away with exposure to > light. > This is my own and everybody elses experience who has ever collected the > pink Halite from Searles lake. > This is also what the people in Trona will tell you. Keep it in the dark ! > Out in the light the colour fades substantially within two month. > Kept in the dark, inside a drawer or such, it probably lasts 10 years or > so. > Axel, if you do not believe this, you will just have to come over and > collect some of it yourself. > It is a lot of fun and quite an experience. > I would recommend it to anybody. If you get the chance, go collect at > Searles Lake ! > Every year, second weekend of October. > The Halite Crystals (up to 2 cm on the side), white and / or pink, are just > one of numerous Evaporates which can be collected. > Hanksite crystals up to 15cm, and others. > My information is that the pink colour is from carotine (not from > manganese). Just like the Flamingos. > > See : > > http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/geology.htm > > http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/GEM-O-RAMA.htm > > > Hilmar > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Dec 20 19:01:54 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Dec 20 19:01:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <494DB1A2.6060000@verizon.net> Kris Rowe wrote: > the proprietor showed me a piece to "explain" why he doesn't stock > more Pink Halite. The piece had > been left, fully exposed to light, *dirctly under the swamp cooler!* After a > year, it was a sad, indistinct, faded "lump" of salt. Just between us, I > don't find laziness and mishandling to be a good reason to "dis" a very > attractive material. Hi, Aren't you being a little harsh? Everyone can't know everything, and I think "laziness" and "mishandling" are pretty strong terms. Did you try to educate him? In the end, it is a dealer's choice to carry a particular species, especially if the species requires extraordinary handling. I like to keep a pretty extensive collection, but I eventually got rid of all my hanksite and halite (FYI, mineral names are not capitalized) because of the difficulties in keeping them in good condition. Also, FYI, there are many international and older-generation folks on the list, and a fair number of readers might not know what "dis" means. Yours truly, Don From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 20:41:47 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Dec 20 20:41:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <494DB1A2.6060000@verizon.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <494DB1A2.6060000@verizon.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812202041k107ea274gb96c3d7c5ae43559@mail.gmail.com> My apologies, Don. I did not mean to offend anyone, merely to point out that a careful and desirous collector can maintain halite and other evaporate materials in their collection, if they so desire. They do tend to take more care than most other minerals, but the beauty and strangeness of form, combined with the memories of getting dirty and smelly collecting them, make it worthwhile for me. *grin!* I do tend to be opinionated and plainspoken, but I think this just makes for better, more entertaining reading, as well as more spirited discussion. The proprietor I mentioned is a good and old friend who did know better, stocked the mineral, and "crabbed' at me about its deterioration. I didn't mention that he then offered me a low price for my material, since he can get it from a number of local collectors. Such are the vicissitudes of commerce! *grin!* As well, my thanks for the tip about capitalization. Unlike many writers, I appreciate a good editor. In addition, feel free to explain any colloquial terms I might utilize in the future. For those who need to know, "dis" means: to disrespect. No harm meant, no foul intended, Kris On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 7:01 PM, DonH wrote: > Kris Rowe wrote: > > the proprietor showed me a piece to "explain" why he doesn't stock >> more Pink Halite. The piece had >> been left, fully exposed to light, *dirctly under the swamp cooler!* After >> a >> year, it was a sad, indistinct, faded "lump" of salt. Just between us, I >> don't find laziness and mishandling to be a good reason to "dis" a very >> attractive material. >> > > > Hi, > > Aren't you being a little harsh? Everyone can't know everything, and I > think "laziness" and "mishandling" are pretty strong terms. Did you try to > educate him? In the end, it is a dealer's choice to carry a particular > species, especially if the species requires extraordinary handling. I like > to keep a pretty extensive collection, but I eventually got rid of all my > hanksite and halite (FYI, mineral names are not capitalized) because of the > difficulties in keeping them in good condition. > > Also, FYI, there are many international and older-generation folks on the > list, and a fair number of readers might not know what "dis" means. > > Yours truly, > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 21:11:18 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Dec 20 21:11:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howdy, y'all! and AD: Searles Lake Halite In-Reply-To: <494D5737.9000708@arczip.com> References: <831c9ad10812191828j215d8334mb76eacd8eccfe638@mail.gmail.com> <494D5737.9000708@arczip.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812202111w206b130dubc92a47146d89df6@mail.gmail.com> Howdy Chuck! It's been 20 years since I collected the "Big Pine" site, and the best crystals have always been found by "hard rock" mining. That is, chisels and gads, sledges and pry bars! For accurate and comprehensive info on many California sites, I've always found Gail Butler's articles to be among the best. Most fortunately for us, her book "Rockhounding California"is now available at Google Books, for viewing online. I guarentee you'll find it a treasure trove of good information, with great depth. I often think about this site, and wonder what I might be able to pry from the ground there. I also recommend the "Apache Tear" site near Independance, as in Mitchell's great book. It's east of the Blackrock Fish Hatchery in the river bed, and is literally *miles* in length. Most of the "tears" are opaque there, but they polish up most attractively. If you do polish these obsidionites, be sure to saw off at least a tiny portion, as facetors have found they have internal "stress", and can crack or shatter if the stress isn't releived. I guess that's why we see so many more tumbled "tears" than faceted or cabbed ones. Hoping you and Kathy clear skies and brimming full buckets, Kris Lapidary Specialties On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Charles Baran wrote: > Kris: (as in Kris Kringle?) Welcome to the list. You will find some of > the best, most knowledgeable, kind, helpful folks here. I do have a > question for you about a > rock hunting site. It is in Gem Trails of Northern Calif, page 162, site > 68, "Big Pine": What is the "trick" to finding the larger crystals? My > wife, Kathy, and I have been there twice (only to be run off by t-storms) > but have only found small stuff and no smoky quarts. Also, what side/area > of the hill is the best area to hunt? Thank you and Merry Christmas. Chuck > Baran > > At last, dear Rockhounds list, I've found you! >> >> My name is Kris, I live in Fresno, California and operate (along with my >> significant other Laura) >> our Lapidary and Mineral business, Lapidary Specialties. We're brand new >> to >> the list, and to >> the business as well. >> I've been a rockhound all of my life, and a Lapidary since 1979. Laura is >> a >> newer Rockhound >> and Beader, and LOVES going on collecting trips! We specialize (at this >> time) in California >> minerals and cutting materials, custom cut cabochons, beads and wearable >> sculpture. >> We have a small (1 ton) inventory of cutting materials of many types, and >> gladly lend help to >> rockhounds who're looking for places to collect while in Central >> California. >> I love leading field trips and urge folks who're planning on visiting or >> traveling through our >> area to drop me a line if you want to do some trading or collecting! >> >> At present, we have freshly collected and dried Halite from Searles Lake, >> Trona, California. >> Our auctions can be found at eBay: >> >> Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW >> RESERVE!< >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Halite-INCREDIBLE-Ice-Cubes-Museum-LOW-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220332603252QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220332603252&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 >> > >> >> Halite, INCREDIBLE "Ice!" Cubes, Museum, LOW >> RESERVE!< >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Halite-INCREDIBLE-Ice-Cubes-Museum-LOW-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ220332609522QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220332609522&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 >> > >> Halite, INCREDIBLE Hoppered Cubes, Museum, LOW >> RESERVE! >> >> I have over 100 high quality Halite specimen clusters available for >> immediate purchase and shipment. >> I've got pics of all, and will send pics to any who request. >> >> In addition, I'm presently cleaning and treating many fine Hanksite single >> Crystals and Clusters (see >> *The Mud Field Trip > >)*, >> and will be posting them to auction as soon as I'm happy with them! >> >> We also have a lot Halite and Hanksite from the Searles Lake "Blow Hole" >> collecting area. >> *The Blow Hole Minerals< >> http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/Pipe3-Minerals.htm> >> * will give you an idea of the cleaned crystals. At this time, I've >> classified much >> of this material, but haven't cleaned any the rougher crystals. >> >> I'll give more info about myself and Laura in future posts, and talk more >> about the various minerals and >> gemstones we have available, and those we collect here in CentCal. We've >> been pretty much ignored as >> a collecting area, and what we have here will surprise you! (See Mindat - >> Fresno Co. ) >> >> Happy Holidays! >> >> Kris & Laura >> Lapidary Specialties >> Fresno, Ca. >> >> P.S: We do all sales through eBay, to insure that transactions and >> payments >> go smoothly. I do have a long >> trading "wishlist", so after we get to know you, we might be amenable to >> trading. Just ask! >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 21:50:03 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Dec 20 21:50:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> <8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! I may be off the map here, but if it won't abrade, isn't malleable, and doesn't powder (Bakelite), you might have a "thunder egg." Or, more likely from the buff color exhibited inside the hole, a "dud". A dud is a nodule of high silica rhyolite, pretty much a solid nodule of the material found on the outside of an Oregon style thunder egg, without any of the yummy agate-y goodness! Though not considered common in S.D., it's a fairly widespread nodular occurrence. Fairburn agate is found in nodules, as are the many other local types in the Dakotas. Montana boasts thunder egg type nodules, too. By your hardness description, it sounds like a dud or mudball. I've seen many t-eggs (and have a few myself) that have a hole at one end. Keep us apprised on any progress, please! I LOVE a good mystery! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:56 PM, wrote: > They wouldn't be brass or metallic, but some material that is > almost like an agate. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Siebel > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 5:30 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > > That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if it > brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm > researching that now. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > John, > I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob > shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. > Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I > have no idea how they got there, but for some reason > they are there. > dave > > -- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Dec 20 21:58:24 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Dec 20 21:59:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> <831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> Hey, Kris: Definitely NOT a mudball. Did you see the picture posted? It, and the hole, bear no resemblance to a mudball or any sort of Thunderegg/Rhyolite/etc. I'd bet money that the hole is manmade. We'll figure it out eventually. Or not. lol. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Rowe" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > Howdy, y'all! > I may be off the map here, but if it won't abrade, > isn't > malleable, and doesn't powder (Bakelite), you might have a "thunder egg." > Or, more likely from the buff color exhibited inside the hole, a "dud". A > dud is a nodule of high silica rhyolite, pretty much a solid nodule of the > material found on the outside of an Oregon style thunder egg, without any > of > the yummy agate-y goodness! > Though not considered common in S.D., it's a fairly widespread nodular > occurrence. Fairburn agate is found in nodules, as are the many other > local > types in the Dakotas. Montana boasts thunder egg type nodules, too. > > By your hardness description, it sounds like a dud or mudball. I've seen > many t-eggs (and have a few myself) that have a hole at one end. Keep us > apprised on any progress, please! > > I LOVE a good mystery! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:56 PM, wrote: > >> They wouldn't be brass or metallic, but some material that is >> almost like an agate. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Siebel >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 5:30 pm >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact >> >> >> That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if >> it >> brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm >> researching that now. >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> >> John, >> I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob >> shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. >> Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I >> have no idea how they got there, but for some reason >> they are there. >> dave >> >> -- _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Dec 20 22:23:17 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Dec 20 22:24:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> <831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com> <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> Message-ID: <00dc01c96334$9d2003a0$d7600ae0$@com> I agree, the ridges are way too regularly spaced and precise for it to be any kind of rock, thunderegg or other. Fossil? Kinda sorta looks like an echinoid, but that's doubtful. P.S. I don't know of a single thunderegg locality in SD or MT, and I have thundereggs from over 100 locations in the US and Europe. Does anyone else? And if you have one can I trade for it? :D Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:58 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact Hey, Kris: Definitely NOT a mudball. Did you see the picture posted? It, and the hole, bear no resemblance to a mudball or any sort of Thunderegg/Rhyolite/etc. I'd bet money that the hole is manmade. We'll figure it out eventually. Or not. lol. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Rowe" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > Howdy, y'all! > I may be off the map here, but if it won't abrade, > isn't > malleable, and doesn't powder (Bakelite), you might have a "thunder egg." > Or, more likely from the buff color exhibited inside the hole, a "dud". A > dud is a nodule of high silica rhyolite, pretty much a solid nodule of the > material found on the outside of an Oregon style thunder egg, without any > of > the yummy agate-y goodness! > Though not considered common in S.D., it's a fairly widespread nodular > occurrence. Fairburn agate is found in nodules, as are the many other > local > types in the Dakotas. Montana boasts thunder egg type nodules, too. > > By your hardness description, it sounds like a dud or mudball. I've seen > many t-eggs (and have a few myself) that have a hole at one end. Keep us > apprised on any progress, please! > > I LOVE a good mystery! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 22:38:27 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Dec 20 22:38:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> <8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> <831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com> <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> Hey Julie! I'm both stumped, and intrigued. Lets all make this mystery last a looooong time, and seek every possible unturned ... wellll ... stone. *grin!* Other silly ides: A Indian fishing weight? A dinosaur gizzard rammer? Partially petrified coprolite? A stargate transported Martian hematite ball? On the other hand, it seems that what it isn't might be the best clue. Whatever that means. *sheepish grin* I like the idea of a fossilized seed, perhaps a Ginkgo. I'll try to find an old Rock & Gem article in which the author described finding and identifying a rare and significant find of a fossilized Ginkgo seed. It bore a strong resemblance, in my recollection, to your unknown. She described it as looking like a piece of jasper, and nearly tossed it out. (Yikes!) There is a Ginkgo Petrified Forest near Yakima, Washington, and what is apparently "the worlds largest" Petrified Wood Park is in Lemmon, S.D. Hmmm ... a leftover from there? *scratching slowly balding head* Whatever it is, I'll be waiting breathlessly for the next clue! (All the while turning softly blue.) Ciao, y'all! Kris On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > Hey, Kris: > > Definitely NOT a mudball. Did you see the picture posted? It, and the hole, > bear no resemblance to a mudball or any sort of Thunderegg/Rhyolite/etc. I'd > bet money that the hole is manmade. > > We'll figure it out eventually. Or not. lol. > > Julie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Rowe" < > lapidary.specialties@gmail.com> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > > Howdy, y'all! >> I may be off the map here, but if it won't abrade, isn't >> malleable, and doesn't powder (Bakelite), you might have a "thunder egg." >> Or, more likely from the buff color exhibited inside the hole, a "dud". A >> dud is a nodule of high silica rhyolite, pretty much a solid nodule of the >> material found on the outside of an Oregon style thunder egg, without any >> of >> the yummy agate-y goodness! >> Though not considered common in S.D., it's a fairly widespread nodular >> occurrence. Fairburn agate is found in nodules, as are the many other >> local >> types in the Dakotas. Montana boasts thunder egg type nodules, too. >> >> By your hardness description, it sounds like a dud or mudball. I've seen >> many t-eggs (and have a few myself) that have a hole at one end. Keep us >> apprised on any progress, please! >> >> I LOVE a good mystery! >> Kris >> Lapidary Specialties >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:56 PM, wrote: >> >> They wouldn't be brass or metallic, but some material that is >>> almost like an agate. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: John Siebel >>> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < >>> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 5:30 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact >>> >>> >>> That's a real good possibility Dave. I filed off a small spot to see if >>> it >>> brass or other metallic and it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps Bakelite? I'm >>> researching that now. >>> >>> John >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: >>> >>> John, >>> I'll throw in my two cents worth. What about the knob >>> shifter from what now would be an antique car or truck. >>> Believe it or not, I have found them in streams in WV, I >>> have no idea how they got there, but for some reason >>> they are there. >>> dave >>> >>> -- _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Dec 20 23:58:19 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Dec 20 23:59:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook> <1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP> <87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook> <8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com> <8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> <831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com> <6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> <831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c96341$e3cf5690$ab6e03b0$@com> Ginkgo seeds are much smaller than the object in question. They are found as fossils in Paleocene shales in ND (at least). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kris Rowe Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:38 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact Hey Julie! I'm both stumped, and intrigued. Lets all make this mystery last a looooong time, and seek every possible unturned ... wellll ... stone. *grin!* Other silly ides: A Indian fishing weight? A dinosaur gizzard rammer? Partially petrified coprolite? A stargate transported Martian hematite ball? On the other hand, it seems that what it isn't might be the best clue. Whatever that means. *sheepish grin* I like the idea of a fossilized seed, perhaps a Ginkgo. I'll try to find an old Rock & Gem article in which the author described finding and identifying a rare and significant find of a fossilized Ginkgo seed. It bore a strong resemblance, in my recollection, to your unknown. She described it as looking like a piece of jasper, and nearly tossed it out. (Yikes!) There is a Ginkgo Petrified Forest near Yakima, Washington, and what is apparently "the worlds largest" Petrified Wood Park is in Lemmon, S.D. Hmmm ... a leftover from there? *scratching slowly balding head* Whatever it is, I'll be waiting breathlessly for the next clue! (All the while turning softly blue.) Ciao, y'all! Kris From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Dec 21 04:01:22 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Dec 21 04:02:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana> <831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kris wrote: >Other silly ides: A Indian fishing weight? Not too silly Kris. But I'm thinking that a fishing weight would have the hole drilled all the way through the stone (wood, leather, copralite, seed pod, Bakelite, mud ball...) Tim Wrote: >Kinda sorta looks like an echinoid, but that's doubtful. That was my first thought when I found it Tim. But I agree with the doubtful. I'm voting for man-made. Although I did find some ammonites and petrified bone fragments in the same mud. Axel wrote: >Indeed, 4 inch is a bit small for an explosive charge... It's 4cm Axel, not 4 inches. And I'm really surprised that you didn't crow about the fact that a Belgian invented Bakelite! John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 21 05:20:24 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 21 05:20:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > It's 4cm Axel, not 4 inches. [Axel] Oops, my mistake... > And I'm really surprised that you didn't crow > about the fact that a Belgian invented Bakelite! [Axel] Aw, bakelite, the big bang theory by Msgr LeMa?tre, the saxophone by Adolphe Sax, asphalt roads by Edward de Smedt, Mercator maps for navigation, Solvay process fo making sodium bicarbonate, fist anatomy book by Vesalius, the body mass index by Quetelet, Spark-ignited combustion for coal gas engines by Jean Joseph Etienne Lenoir, in 1899 a Belgian (Camille Jenatzy) built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed, ...... We try to stay modest so we forfeit a few opportunities to remind the world how good we are... (LOL, no... make that ROFLMAO) Axel From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 13:39:58 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 13:40:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? Message-ID: I don't know if this is in the area affected by the Owens Valley dry-up but I've heard the cause of the problem is that LA has sucked all the water out of the area and now the valley floor is dried up and blowing all over the place and causing health problems. < http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=randsburg,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.118084,93.955078&ie=UTF8&ll=35.36849,-117.657424&spn=3.726603,5.872192&z=8 > <*http://tinyurl.com/8wcbxy>* BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Dec 21 13:42:41 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Dec 21 13:43:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> The Saxophone!!! I AM impressed! It's amazing that you guys get so much done and yet remain 7th in per capita beer consumption. John Trying to catch up :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" > It's 4cm Axel, not 4 inches. [Axel] Oops, my mistake... > And I'm really surprised that you didn't crow > about the fact that a Belgian invented Bakelite! [Axel] Aw, bakelite, the big bang theory by Msgr LeMa?tre, the saxophone by Adolphe Sax, asphalt roads by Edward de Smedt, Mercator maps for navigation, Solvay process fo making sodium bicarbonate, fist anatomy book by Vesalius, the body mass index by Quetelet, Spark-ignited combustion for coal gas engines by Jean Joseph Etienne Lenoir, in 1899 a Belgian (Camille Jenatzy) built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed, ...... We try to stay modest so we forfeit a few opportunities to remind the world how good we are... (LOL, no... make that ROFLMAO) Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Dec 21 14:46:55 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Dec 21 14:47:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> Message-ID: Yes the saxophone. We Belgians are font of sophisticated hooters. We are painfully aware of the beer situation. It's all because the Walloons drink too little of it. Still no snow here but we're looking at a nasty cold spell for the week-end. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: zondag 21 december 2008 22:43 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > The Saxophone!!! I AM impressed! It's amazing that you guys get so much > done and yet remain 7th in per capita beer consumption. > > John > Trying to catch up :-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > > It's 4cm Axel, not 4 inches. > > [Axel] Oops, my mistake... > > > And I'm really surprised that you didn't crow > > about the fact that a Belgian invented Bakelite! > > [Axel] Aw, bakelite, the big bang theory by Msgr LeMa?tre, the saxophone by > Adolphe Sax, asphalt roads by Edward de Smedt, Mercator maps for navigation, > Solvay process fo making sodium bicarbonate, fist anatomy book by Vesalius, > the body mass index by Quetelet, Spark-ignited combustion for coal gas > engines by Jean Joseph Etienne Lenoir, in 1899 a Belgian (Camille Jenatzy) > built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for > land speed, ...... > > We try to stay modest so we forfeit a few opportunities to remind the world > how good we are... (LOL, no... make that ROFLMAO) > > Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From OnyxCollector at aol.com Sun Dec 21 15:22:40 2008 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 21 15:22:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? An importent debate Message-ID: While yes, the Owens Lake was sucked dry by LA's DWP, the lake is 70 miles away and is not the problem at Randsburg. Right now a large portion of Owens Lake has a few inches of water on it, and water does flow down the Owens River into the Lake again, to combat the dust problem that once existed. The important thing to note in the Fox article is separating the truth from the scare tactics and fiction. Note the lack of proof in the article that anyone is being poisoned by arsenic - in fact, the only proof mentioned shows just the opposite and I quote "samples.... did not show elevated arsenic levels." Chris Kim is trying to scare people to justify the BLM to continue paying him money. The "Pew Campaign For Responsible Mining" is an anti- mining, anti-rockhound, radical environmental group wanting to declare all public lands as "Wilderness", shutting off all access by vehicles. Just like what was done at the Clear Creek Management Area west of Coalinga, they want to use the "threat" of arsenic to close the area. A lot of this is based on a recent report by the Inspector General of the Department of the Interior, who has not spent substantial time in the state, never mind the area around Randsburg. His report was an obvious case of justifying his own job...... the report is full of bullshit. He accused the BLM in Ridgecrest of not fencing in mine shafts, when in fact they have fenced in, filled in, and closed off a large number of mine shafts - I know because it pisses me off when I can't in them! He went on to say a lot of things that are easily disproved and outright lies. This is the kind of stuff rockhounds and nature lovers have to watch out for, because it's the type of stuff used to close off areas to the public. In a message dated 12/21/2008 1:40:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, codeburner@gmail.com writes: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,470712,00.html **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 15:37:15 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 15:37:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? An importent debate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My BS detector was twitching when I read this, but I didn't know the details. BK On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 18:22, wrote: > While yes, the Owens Lake was sucked dry by LA's DWP, the lake is 70 miles > away and is not the problem at Randsburg. Right now a large portion of > Owens > Lake has a few inches of water on it, and water does flow down the Owens > River into the Lake again, to combat the dust problem that once existed. > The important thing to note in the Fox article is separating the truth > from the scare tactics and fiction. Note the lack of proof in the article > that > anyone is being poisoned by arsenic - in fact, the only proof mentioned > shows just the opposite and I quote "samples.... did not show elevated > arsenic > levels." Chris Kim is trying to scare people to justify the BLM to > continue > paying him money. The "Pew Campaign For Responsible Mining" is an anti- > mining, anti-rockhound, radical environmental group wanting to declare all > public > lands as "Wilderness", shutting off all access by vehicles. Just like > what > was done at the Clear Creek Management Area west of Coalinga, they want to > use the "threat" of arsenic to close the area. > A lot of this is based on a recent report by the Inspector General of > the > Department of the Interior, who has not spent substantial time in the > state, > never mind the area around Randsburg. His report was an obvious case of > justifying his own job...... the report is full of bullshit. He accused > the BLM > in Ridgecrest of not fencing in mine shafts, when in fact they have fenced > in, filled in, and closed off a large number of mine shafts - I know > because > it pisses me off when I can't in them! He went on to say a lot of things > that are easily disproved and outright lies. This is the kind of stuff > rockhounds and nature lovers have to watch out for, because it's the type > of stuff > used to close off areas to the public. > > > In a message dated 12/21/2008 1:40:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > codeburner@gmail.com writes: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,470712,00.html > > **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, > Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. > ( > http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025 > ) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 16:18:51 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sun Dec 21 16:18:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831c9ad10812211618g345599f1jfd1675405efe7f1b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, J! The area in question is well enough south of the Owens Valley that the "Environmentalists" can claim that the 'problem' is only due to mining and off-roaders, and that water issues have no bearing. The Randsburg area is north of Mojave, and has been the object of an ongoing move to restrict public and private land use entirely. I first ran into this problem back in the early 90's, when I was attempting to rockhound areas that had been open in the late 80's. Being a conscientious rockhound, and having full awareness of ongoing efforts to expand the Red Rock State Park boundaries, I was stunned to find the major collecting areas had been targeted for closure. The reasons offered by the Rangers and BLM folks I spoke with ranged from "preservation" to "public safety" to "erosion". The overriding theme by those who defended the closures always seemed to end with the pronouncement that "well, these are the People's lands, and it's WRONG for private citizens to carry off rocks from them!" The last time I visited the old geode beds in Last Chance Canyon, their were geodes lying about on the surface, exposed to the erosive forces of Nature, and I'm sure, being enjoyed to the fullest by all of the visitors who were cautioned most strongly how dangerous it is to even get out of your car "out here." This is simply another move by those who wish to "save us from ourselves." I wonder if it will end up like the time the "Environmentalists" forced the 'plugging up' of mine shafts in the Rockies, which ended in blowout and toxic floods that killed far more fish and wildlife than were at danger before their "preservation" efforts. For those who may get the idea that I'm anti-environmentalist, let me explain what I actually am. I'm anti-stupid people. I'm vehemently against people who object to my even setting foot on "public" lands, who will fence and fine, rather than teaching those other stupid persons who trash and despoil the land. Even when I attend a fee dig, I *always* carry out trash, and fill holes if requested. I always stay on established trails, and avoid areas that are biologically sensitive. I have made a habit of knowing these things, and don't mind calling people who are too selfish or simply interested in controlling my every thought and move, stupid. This "health problem" isn't anything new. It used to be addressed by signs and warnings. We, as a people, used to believe in the antiquated notion of "personal responsibilty." This meant that, if you were stupid enough to drive drunk, that you were held responsible for your choices. It also meant that, if you broke into your neighoors house and he shot you, you were buried, and he was held up as an example of our right to defend our home. When some "boob" was found dead at the bottom of a mineshaft on private property, he was mourned and buried. The landowner wasn't fined and sued for having an open mineshaft on their *private* property. It was assumed that, if you were stupid enough to tresspass, whatever befell you was *your own fault.* It wasn't the responsibility of the landowner to protect tresspassers from themselves. That would have assumed that everyone else was stupid. What is the governmental "answer" that I hear most often to the arsenic problem? Close and fence off the entire area. The prevailing moves are in this direction, as residents of Randsburg will tell you. What, there are people actually still alive out there? Yep. There are folks out there who've lived there for decades with nary a sign of cancers. So, what do I conclude? I conclude that the "Environmentalists" and politicians are most interested in that greatest of governmental responsibilities, playing C.M.A. (acronym meaning "Cover My A**") That, and doing everything they can to make sure that we all live forever, so they can always be responsible for protecting us from ourselves, and make sure that evil landowners and miners and cattle ranchers and providers of services that "hurt" stupid people who misuse them can be "sued & siezed" to the extent that *everyone* can become equally miserable. As a student of history, I know of a place that was dedicated to that goal for 70 years, until it's citizens finally got so fed up that they overthrew the government. But not until they'd been made paupers, and millions had been murdered by there own "leaders." Yep, the good 'ol U.S.S.R. I don't intend to sit by until revolt is the only answer to despotism. So, if you disagree that a free people should be allowed the freedom of sensible choices (in this case, don't go out there unless you're going to assume your own risk), please feel free to say so. Then, be sure to stay home and suck down the prepackaged "adventure" shows on cable TV, safe in the knowledge that the only risks you face are the thousands of different ones we deal with every day. Or, you can choose to join in and educate others, to make them aware of the choice to be smart. Yep, it's a choice. Thanks for the soapbox, friends. I now return you to your choices. Be Well! Kris On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:39 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > I don't know if this is in the area affected by the Owens Valley dry-up but > I've heard the cause of the problem is that LA has sucked all the water out > of the area and now the valley floor is dried up and blowing all over the > place and causing health problems. > > > > < > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=randsburg,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.118084,93.955078&ie=UTF8&ll=35.36849,-117.657424&spn=3.726603,5.872192&z=8 > > > > <*http://tinyurl.com/8wcbxy>* > > BK > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:04:51 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:04:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812211618g345599f1jfd1675405efe7f1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10812211618g345599f1jfd1675405efe7f1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I was under the impression that many areas were naturally contaminated with heavy metals. You are commonly warned about not trusting springs and creeks since they can be contaminated. The groundwater around Ely is famously high in Arsenic naturally, they were fighting the EPA last I heard who was trying to make them put in a very expensive deionization system on their drinking water. BK Hi, J! > The area in question is well enough south of the Owens Valley that > the "Environmentalists" can claim that the 'problem' is only due to mining > and off-roaders, and that water issues have no bearing. The Randsburg area > is north of Mojave, and has been the object of an ongoing move to restrict > public and private land use entirely. > > I first ran into this problem back in the early 90's, when I was attempting > to rockhound areas that had been open in the late 80's. Being a > conscientious rockhound, and having full awareness of ongoing efforts to > expand the Red Rock State Park boundaries, I was stunned to find the major > collecting areas had been targeted for closure. > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Dec 21 18:07:39 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:08:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> Message-ID: <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, sorry, it's all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens to 20s at night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's coming down like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:47 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact Yes the saxophone. We Belgians are font of sophisticated hooters. We are painfully aware of the beer situation. It's all because the Walloons drink too little of it. Still no snow here but we're looking at a nasty cold spell for the week-end. Axel From smkell45 at aol.com Sun Dec 21 18:15:47 2008 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:15:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates Message-ID: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars had identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their had been non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the formation of life. Any idea which carbonate? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:22:15 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:22:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates In-Reply-To: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: You can probably find out here, the only mineral I recall being mentioned was epidote. BK On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:15, wrote: > Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars had > identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their had been > non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the formation of life. > Any idea which carbonate? smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:24:46 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:24:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates In-Reply-To: References: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Whoops I think i meant perovskite not epidote tho I see that is mentioned else where. BK On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:22, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > You can probably find out here, the only mineral I recall being mentioned > was epidote. > > > > BK > > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:15, wrote: > >> Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars had >> identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their had been >> non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the formation of life. >> Any idea which carbonate? smkell >> >> >> > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 21 18:33:41 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:33:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates In-Reply-To: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Magnesium Carbonates. Here is the story at the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7791060.stm Kreigh On Sunday, Dec 21, 2008, at 21:15 America/Detroit, smkell45@aol.com wrote: > Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars > had identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their > had been non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the > formation of life. Any idea which carbonate? smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:33:59 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:34:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates In-Reply-To: References: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ah this is what I was looking for: < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/18/another-discovery-points-to-past-water-and-habitability-on-mars/ > That blog is a very good source of planetary news. BK On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:24, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Whoops I think i meant perovskite not epidote tho I see that is mentioned > else where. > > BK > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:22, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> You can probably find out here, the only mineral I recall being mentioned >> was epidote. >> >> >> >> BK >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:15, wrote: >> >>> Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars >>> had identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their had >>> been non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the formation of >>> life. Any idea which carbonate? smkell >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Sun Dec 21 18:59:02 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Sun Dec 21 18:59:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> Message-ID: <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Stop your whining Tim. You should be glad you aren't in Idaho right now. I would appreciate it if you pushed your warm air up this way; John and Julie would probably like some too. Here in Coeur d'Alene, Wednesday to Thursday it snowed around 30 inches in 36 hours. The temperatures had been from -10 to 4 above as lows and up to a fantastic heart warming 16 for highs. Since Thursday, we've been as low as -14.7 and as high as 14. It has snowed at least 2 inches every day, is snowing now, the wind is blowing and the temperature is 11 and dropping rapidly. For the next week, the forecast is for warmer temperatures (lows 5-10 above and highs up to the mid 20s) and snow every day. Looks like much of the Northwest will have a white Christmas! Tucson sure does sound good right now. Regards, Lanny On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Tim wrote: > Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, > sorry, it's > all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens to > 20s at > night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's coming > down > like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel > Emmermann > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:47 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > Yes the saxophone. We Belgians are font of sophisticated hooters. > We are painfully aware of the beer situation. > It's all because the Walloons drink too little of it. > > Still no snow here but we're looking at a nasty cold spell for the > week-end. > > Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Dec 21 20:11:49 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Dec 21 20:11:52 2008 Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: <3CF4E67C7EC3415D896A9A8DD645A817@Notebook> References: <3CF4E67C7EC3415D896A9A8DD645A817@Notebook> Message-ID: Lots of wood is heavier than water, especially if it is saturated. We have aquariums with natural wood pieces used in the aquascapes. Think about all the wood ships and boats that have sunk. How long have you had it "dry"? If were wood (or leather) saturated with water, it would lose weight as it dried. This is a good piece to study while you're snowed in. It was 70F here yesterday and may be a degree or 2 below 32F by tomorrow morning. Snow here is rare...and I ain't complaining! Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> From: john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:20:46 -0800> > Glenn,> > I have no scale to measure specific gravity but I should be able to borrow > one. I would assume that even the hard woods would float (this doesn't) > unless petrified?> > John> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn Wimpee" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:29 PM> Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact> > > > This reminds me of many unknown "rocks" we are asked to help identify. I was > with Axel on the grape shot possibility until you checked it as > non-metallic. Do we have a botanist? I think the seed pod theory could well > still prove in. Or very hard old wood like hickory or walnut. The leathery > So could the shifter or walking cane knob. They were, and are still, made > from everything on earth, and likely bits of meteorites also. You mentioned > ceramic too. What is the specific gravity? Could be an ancient petrified > egg. 4cm is pretty small for an Indian war club, but the native Americans > also made toys for their tots.Thought provoking.> Glenn> > > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Dec 21 20:35:31 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Dec 21 20:36:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: We're doing ok here Lanny. I've measured 29.75" of snow so far with lows of -5 degrees. But 4WD rules. Sound like you've got it worse than us. In the mean time I am enjoying a lovely blue kyanite in schist that we yanked from Freezeout Mt. last August. My biggest kick from this avocation is reliving collecting trips. It's snowing outside but I am currently basking in an August sun with you, Hilmar, Heidi, Dexter and Margo. How cool is that? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > Stop your whining Tim. > > You should be glad you aren't in Idaho right now. I would appreciate it > if you pushed your warm air up this way; John and Julie would probably > like some too. > > Here in Coeur d'Alene, Wednesday to Thursday it snowed around 30 inches > in 36 hours. The temperatures had been from -10 to 4 above as lows and up > to a fantastic heart warming 16 for highs. Since Thursday, we've been as > low as -14.7 and as high as 14. It has snowed at least 2 inches every > day, is snowing now, the wind is blowing and the temperature is 11 and > dropping rapidly. For the next week, the forecast is for warmer > temperatures (lows 5-10 above and highs up to the mid 20s) and snow every > day. > > Looks like much of the Northwest will have a white Christmas! > > Tucson sure does sound good right now. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Tim wrote: > >> Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, sorry, >> it's >> all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens to 20s at >> night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's coming down >> like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? >> >> Tim Fisher >> Ore-ROCK-On! >> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 21 21:11:20 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 21 21:11:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We've had 38 inches in Grand Rapids, MI, so far this month, and are expecting another 10 inches by Christmas. Temps are around 10 today, but we have had winds averaging 40 mph today. Can you spell wind chill? We're not quite snowed in, but it is getting close. Winter officially begins this weekend, so we can expect to start getting some serious snow. It is not often we reach our annual average by Christmas, but this is an unusual winter that started early. Merry Christmas! Kreigh On Sunday, Dec 21, 2008, at 23:35 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > We're doing ok here Lanny. I've measured 29.75" of snow so far with > lows of -5 degrees. But 4WD rules. Sound like you've got it worse than > us. In the mean time I am enjoying a lovely blue kyanite in schist > that we yanked from Freezeout Mt. last August. My biggest kick from > this avocation is reliving collecting trips. It's snowing outside but > I am currently basking in an August sun with you, Hilmar, Heidi, > Dexter and Margo. How cool is that? > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > >> Stop your whining Tim. >> >> You should be glad you aren't in Idaho right now. I would appreciate >> it if you pushed your warm air up this way; John and Julie would >> probably like some too. >> >> Here in Coeur d'Alene, Wednesday to Thursday it snowed around 30 >> inches in 36 hours. The temperatures had been from -10 to 4 above as >> lows and up to a fantastic heart warming 16 for highs. Since >> Thursday, we've been as low as -14.7 and as high as 14. It has >> snowed at least 2 inches every day, is snowing now, the wind is >> blowing and the temperature is 11 and dropping rapidly. For the next >> week, the forecast is for warmer temperatures (lows 5-10 above and >> highs up to the mid 20s) and snow every day. >> >> Looks like much of the Northwest will have a white Christmas! >> >> Tucson sure does sound good right now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Tim wrote: >> >>> Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, >>> sorry, it's >>> all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens to >>> 20s at >>> night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's coming >>> down >>> like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? >>> >>> Tim Fisher >>> Ore-ROCK-On! >>> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Dec 21 22:39:47 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Dec 21 22:39:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbonates References: <8CB31F25662158A-16AC-AC0@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3EC68DFE5FCA4D869853F088B952E6F2@Junior> The boring carbonates! No seksy azurite or stuff... yet... lol. Earth First! We'll strip mine the other planets later. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] carbonates Ah this is what I was looking for: < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/18/another-discovery-points-to-past-water-and-habitability-on-mars/ > That blog is a very good source of planetary news. BK On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:24, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Whoops I think i meant perovskite not epidote tho I see that is mentioned > else where. > > BK > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:22, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> You can probably find out here, the only mineral I recall being mentioned >> was epidote. >> >> >> >> BK >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 21:15, wrote: >> >>> Hi. Recently , it was reported that? a satellite traveling around Mars >>> had identified carbonate -containing rocks. This indicated that their >>> had >>> been non-acidic water and that improved the possibility of the formation >>> of >>> life. Any idea which carbonate? smkell >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gregaweis at msn.com Mon Dec 22 07:51:24 2008 From: gregaweis at msn.com (GREGORY WEISBROD) Date: Mon Dec 22 07:51:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Owens valley? In-Reply-To: References: <831c9ad10812211618g345599f1jfd1675405efe7f1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think the arsenic (tastes sweet, don't do this at home) threat is overblown. Most of us Alpen mountaineers would regularly take a small supliment to improve our high altitude respiration. The body acclimates to the small dosage. I would suppose a real healthwise threat might be Valley Fever. The subsurface lung infecting fungus around Bakersfield needs a bit of moisture, but spores could be blowing around. > Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:04:51 -0500> From: codeburner@gmail.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Owens valley?> > I was under the impression that many areas were naturally contaminated with> heavy metals. You are commonly warned about not trusting springs and creeks> since they can be contaminated. The groundwater around Ely is famously high> in Arsenic naturally, they were fighting the EPA last I heard who was trying> to make them put in a very expensive deionization system on their drinking> water.> > BK> > > Hi, J!> > The area in question is well enough south of the Owens Valley that> > the "Environmentalists" can claim that the 'problem' is only due to mining> > and off-roaders, and that water issues have no bearing. The Randsburg area> > is north of Mojave, and has been the object of an ongoing move to restrict> > public and private land use entirely.> >> > I first ran into this problem back in the early 90's, when I was attempting> > to rockhound areas that had been open in the late 80's. Being a> > conscientious rockhound, and having full awareness of ongoing efforts to> > expand the Red Rock State Park boundaries, I was stunned to find the major> > collecting areas had been targeted for closure.> >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 22 09:41:07 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Dec 22 09:41:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AAB1CD7-2A64-4AB1-BDB5-53456ED158C8@roadrunner.com> Kreigh, Looks like we've got about the same weather and conditions. We had no snow until about 10 days ago. Now we suddenly have 2/3 of the average winter's snowfall in a short period of time. The north is getting a real winter on this side of the globe. Good luck to all those traveling for the holidays. All our beautiful rocks are buried. I need spring, mineral collecting is really difficult this time of the year! Skiing and snowshoeing is nice, but they aren't mineral collecting! Merry Christmas, Lanny On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:11 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > We've had 38 inches in Grand Rapids, MI, so far this month, and are > expecting another 10 inches by Christmas. Temps are around 10 today, > but we have had winds averaging 40 mph today. Can you spell wind > chill? We're not quite snowed in, but it is getting close. > > Winter officially begins this weekend, so we can expect to start > getting some serious snow. It is not often we reach our annual > average by Christmas, but this is an unusual winter that started > early. > > Merry Christmas! > > Kreigh > > > On Sunday, Dec 21, 2008, at 23:35 America/Detroit, John Siebel wrote: > >> We're doing ok here Lanny. I've measured 29.75" of snow so far with >> lows of -5 degrees. But 4WD rules. Sound like you've got it worse >> than us. In the mean time I am enjoying a lovely blue kyanite in >> schist that we yanked from Freezeout Mt. last August. My biggest >> kick from this avocation is reliving collecting trips. It's snowing >> outside but I am currently basking in an August sun with you, >> Hilmar, Heidi, Dexter and Margo. How cool is that? >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" >> To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >> for rock and gem collectors" >> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact >> >> >>> Stop your whining Tim. >>> >>> You should be glad you aren't in Idaho right now. I would >>> appreciate it if you pushed your warm air up this way; John and >>> Julie would probably like some too. >>> >>> Here in Coeur d'Alene, Wednesday to Thursday it snowed around 30 >>> inches in 36 hours. The temperatures had been from -10 to 4 above >>> as lows and up to a fantastic heart warming 16 for highs. Since >>> Thursday, we've been as low as -14.7 and as high as 14. It has >>> snowed at least 2 inches every day, is snowing now, the wind is >>> blowing and the temperature is 11 and dropping rapidly. For the >>> next week, the forecast is for warmer temperatures (lows 5-10 >>> above and highs up to the mid 20s) and snow every day. >>> >>> Looks like much of the Northwest will have a white Christmas! >>> >>> Tucson sure does sound good right now. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Lanny >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Tim wrote: >>> >>>> Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, >>>> sorry, it's >>>> all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens >>>> to 20s at >>>> night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's >>>> coming down >>>> like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? >>>> >>>> Tim Fisher >>>> Ore-ROCK-On! >>>> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Dec 22 09:55:22 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Dec 22 09:55:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: Hi John, You know it's winter when you spend a lot of your time shoveling the path to the outhouse! I guess we do have more snow than you, about 47 inches in the last ten days with the 4 inches I cleaned off the driveway and sidewalks this morning, and the snow is still falling. You are so right about the minerals. If it wasn't for the minerals to clean and catalog, especially the micro material to go through (always surprises there, almost as good as collecting it) I probably wouldn't survive winter. Those memories each specimen brings up are a big lift, and the days are now getting longer and spring is on its way. Merry Christmas, Lanny On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:35 PM, John Siebel wrote: > We're doing ok here Lanny. I've measured 29.75" of snow so far with > lows of -5 degrees. But 4WD rules. Sound like you've got it worse > than us. In the mean time I am enjoying a lovely blue kyanite in > schist that we yanked from Freezeout Mt. last August. My biggest > kick from this avocation is reliving collecting trips. It's snowing > outside but I am currently basking in an August sun with you, > Hilmar, Heidi, Dexter and Margo. How cool is that? > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Unknown Artifact > > >> Stop your whining Tim. >> >> You should be glad you aren't in Idaho right now. I would >> appreciate it if you pushed your warm air up this way; John and >> Julie would probably like some too. >> >> Here in Coeur d'Alene, Wednesday to Thursday it snowed around 30 >> inches in 36 hours. The temperatures had been from -10 to 4 above >> as lows and up to a fantastic heart warming 16 for highs. Since >> Thursday, we've been as low as -14.7 and as high as 14. It has >> snowed at least 2 inches every day, is snowing now, the wind is >> blowing and the temperature is 11 and dropping rapidly. For the >> next week, the forecast is for warmer temperatures (lows 5-10 >> above and highs up to the mid 20s) and snow every day. >> >> Looks like much of the Northwest will have a white Christmas! >> >> Tucson sure does sound good right now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:07 PM, Tim wrote: >> >>> Come on over to the warm green Willamette valley then! Whoops, >>> sorry, it's >>> all white, 5 inches of snow, half an inch of ice, in the teens to >>> 20s at >>> night, below 32 all day, power's been on & off, and now it's >>> coming down >>> like a blizzard again. And I left Idaho for THIS??? >>> >>> Tim Fisher >>> Ore-ROCK-On! >>> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Mr.Calcite at verizon.net Mon Dec 22 18:57:25 2008 From: Mr.Calcite at verizon.net (Johan Mineral Verizon) Date: Mon Dec 22 19:05:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: carbonates on Mars In-Reply-To: <200812230201.mBN219Vq030607@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: The carbonate mineral found in the Martian dirt is a calcium carbonate. This was concluded from the carbon dioxide decomposition product in the Phoenix lander cookies-for-aliens (COFAL) oven I am trying to find sufficient reasons to make it calcite, yet chemistry alone is insufficient to be mineral specific. Aragonite is a CaCO3 polymorph Check the Phoenix site on nasa.gov "Both of the two main analytical instruments, TEGA (Thermal and Evolved Gas Analyzer) and the wet chemistry laboratory of the MECA (Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer), have confirmed the presence of calcium carbonate (possibly calcite/aragonite) in their samples, relatively abundant at a few percent of the total soil mass. This is important because calcite is usually associated with liquid water. The TEGA evidence for calcium carbonate came from a high-temperature release of carbon dioxide from soil samples. The temperature of the release matches a temperature known to decompose calcium carbonate and release carbon dioxide gas, which was identified by the instrument's mass spectrometer. The MECA evidence came from a buffering effect characteristic of calcium carbonate assessed in wet chemistry analysis of the soil. The measured concentration of calcium was exactly what would be expected for a solution buffered by calcium carbonate. " Johan Maertens Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Dec 22 20:16:49 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Dec 22 20:16:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: carbonates on Mars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Johan, Then we have two carbonates. Nasa's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter found Magnesium Carbonate. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7791060.stm And as you reported, Phoenix found Calcium Carbonate. I missed that, thanks! Kreigh On Monday, Dec 22, 2008, at 21:57 America/Detroit, Johan Mineral Verizon wrote: > The carbonate mineral found in the Martian dirt is a calcium > carbonate. > This was concluded from the carbon dioxide decomposition product in > the Phoenix lander cookies-for-aliens (COFAL) oven > I am trying to find sufficient reasons to make it calcite, yet > chemistry alone is insufficient to be mineral specific. > Aragonite is a CaCO3 polymorph > > Check the Phoenix site on nasa.gov > "Both of the two main analytical instruments, TEGA (Thermal and > Evolved Gas Analyzer) and the wet chemistry laboratory of the MECA > (Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer), have > confirmed the presence of calcium carbonate (possibly > calcite/aragonite) in their samples, relatively abundant at a few > percent of the total soil mass. This is important because calcite is > usually associated with liquid water. > The TEGA evidence for calcium carbonate came from a high-temperature > release of carbon dioxide from soil samples. The temperature of the > release matches a temperature known to decompose calcium carbonate > and release carbon dioxide gas, which was identified by the > instrument's mass spectrometer. > > The MECA evidence came from a buffering effect characteristic of > calcium carbonate assessed in wet chemistry analysis of the soil. The > measured concentration of calcium was exactly what would be expected > for a solution buffered by calcium carbonate. " > > > Johan Maertens > Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Mon Dec 22 23:00:50 2008 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Mon Dec 22 23:00:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> Here are pictures of just a view of the Searles Lake minerals I have. Hey Kris. I am beating you to the punch ! Of course mine are not for sale. Just to look at. Especially for Kitty and Axel ! http://picasaweb.google.com/hilmarandheidi/SEARLESLAKEMINERALS? authkey=WoITuyof0gk# --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lpai at hotmail.com Tue Dec 23 07:16:48 2008 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Tue Dec 23 07:15:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scorodite References: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I recently picked up a few pieces of Scorodite in China. However, some of the crystals are encrusted with a rusting metallic substance. What can I use to remove the encrustation and expose the beautiful blue crystals underneath without doing damage to the specimen and its matrix? There are also layers of what looks like pyrite in the matrix as well. If anyone has a suggestion or would like to see a picture before giving me their suggestion, please email me directly: lpai@hotmail.com and I'll be happy to email you the pictures. Thanks in advance, Lyle From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 23 08:12:03 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 23 08:12:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> Message-ID: Great shots and great specimens Hilmar! That pink would be hard to explain solely based on the presence of manganese. It would have to be almost pure manganese chloride for that. How do you keep the hanksite from "melting"? A thorough spraying with acryl might do the trick but that would kill the rather nice fluorescence (yes, I got a one-track mind... sorry about that). Cheers and thanks for sharing the images. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Hilmar Krocke > Verzonden: dinsdag 23 december 2008 8:01 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] HALITE > > Here are pictures of just a view of the Searles Lake minerals I have. > Hey Kris. I am beating you to the punch ! > Of course mine are not for sale. Just to look at. Especially for > Kitty and Axel ! > > http://picasaweb.google.com/hilmarandheidi/SEARLESLAKEMINERALS? > authkey=WoITuyof0gk# > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 23 08:39:22 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 23 08:42:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Indian gemstones References: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4C8959A46E134CA18A7C8662D6475881@LarryRush> List: I had ordered a lot of gemstones from India for Christmas, but, they arrived late. So, I will extend my Christmas Sale of 25% off of everything on the web site for another month. www.ConnRoxMinerals.com These new minerals are as yet uncleaned and unsorted, but I will list them below until I get a chance to do them right.....too late for Christmas, but they deserve some attention! Corundum- Red (ruby), Blue (sapphire), and Yellow (sapphire) These are small crystals, from 5mm to 3 cm in size, well formed, but I don't know how gemmy they are until I clean them up. Scapolite- Yellow, clear, and gray crystals, 2-7 cm in size, gemmy transparent and translucent Beryl- Loose blue crystals, well formed, 2-8cm, some terminated, many not. As soon as I have them cleaned, sorted and priced, I will post them on my web site for your consideration, but until then, if anyone is interested, let me know and I will try and send you info. and photos. Larry From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 23 09:52:37 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Dec 23 09:56:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scorodite References: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <2257FD71B8C44FE5AC7553AFF5139AA9@LarryRush> Lyle: You have a challenge on your hands. Because Scorodite is an Iron Arsenate, you should not attempt to use acids to clean it. The same is true of Iron-Out, which would most likely ruin the specimen. I think your best bet would be to use an UltraSonic cleaner with a small amount of detergent. I would try it on a small time setting to test it, and if it shows signs of cleaning the iron stains, do it for a longer period. You could also try a water gun, being very careful as to the power of the stream to see if that will remove the incrustations. I would try it on a poor sample piece in case it turns out to be too strong for this relatively soft mineral. Larry Rush ============================================== --- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Pai" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:16 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Scorodite >I recently picked up a few pieces of Scorodite in China. However, some of >the crystals are encrusted with a rusting metallic substance. What can I >use to remove the encrustation and expose the beautiful blue crystals >underneath without doing damage to the specimen and its matrix? There are >also layers of what looks like pyrite in the matrix as well. > > If anyone has a suggestion or would like to see a picture before giving me > their suggestion, please email me directly: lpai@hotmail.com and I'll be > happy to email you the pictures. > > Thanks in advance, > Lyle > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 23 14:09:19 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 23 14:10:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com><11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: Lanny Wrote: > You know it's winter when you spend a lot of your time shoveling the path > to the outhouse! Nah Lanny, The path to the outhouse is well traveled. You know it's winter when you have to shovel the roof! Last year I had to trench the front of our cabin several times to keep the snow from bashing through the front window as it slid off the roof. And our woodshed collapsed under the weight of over 20 feet of snow. We've got a mere 34" to date. But our neighbor's Cat is busted and he can't plow us out so I am parked a mile away where the county plows the road. In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" that Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the tropics. John From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 14:26:44 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Dec 23 14:26:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: I just heard something the other day that I have never heard of before. Some guy in Colorado was talking about 'Non Avalanche Snow Death' (if I got that right) where people apparently step into very deep powder snow, sink to the bottom, and suffocate. I think they had 100 inches of powder there. The area I spent a winter in Idaho at, Arco, got just about zero snow being in the wind shadow of the mountains. It did get to 42 below and we had 6 weeks of never above zero temps. That was more than enough for this Florida boy. BK On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 17:09, John Siebel wrote: > Lanny Wrote: > >> You know it's winter when you spend a lot of your time shoveling the path >> to the outhouse! >> > > Nah Lanny, > > The path to the outhouse is well traveled. You know it's winter when you > have to shovel the roof! Last year I had to trench the front of our cabin > several times to keep the snow from bashing through the front window as it > slid off the roof. And our woodshed collapsed under the weight of over 20 > feet of snow. We've got a mere 34" to date. But our neighbor's Cat is busted > and he can't plow us out so I am parked a mile away where the county plows > the road. In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" > that Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the tropics. > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 14:37:45 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Tue Dec 23 14:37:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, Hilmar! I went to look for your luscious pics, and the Gallery listed as empty. I hate when that happens! However, I have a remedy for all who need some halite pics. I posted some new pics on my Blog yesterday, and a few of my pithy words! I'm working on posting a couple of hundred pics of halite, and in my spare moments I'm starting to work on my hanksite, which has been stored in a moist, *briny* sealed container since October. I'll give you a full report on cleaning and preserving hanksite when I'm done. I have learned that if you store your fresh, wet hanksite in a sealed container, in a dark, cool corner of your garage or cellar, the bacteria in the encasing mud will die, and leave a relatively easy, simply sandy cleanup job. More when I've perfected the technique. You can find my Blog at R&R Rockhound. Be sure to click o n the pics to open them full size, and check out those lovely hoppered crystals! If you have any trouble downloading the pics in hi-rez, just drop me a note and I'll send you a zipped file. All of the specimens pictured are available for sale, and I do all transactions through eBay, to assure smooth sailing. I also include free shipping, so the price that you bid is the price that you pay! A big thank you to all of those who've gone and looked at my auctions. I'll be posting more today! Be Well! Kris P.S. Axel, the pink color is due to algal growth in the brine ponds. I have specimens with disseminated algae, and specimens where the algae are in specks and clumps. LOVE that color! On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Hilmar Krocke wrote: > Here are pictures of just a view of the Searles Lake minerals I have. > Hey Kris. I am beating you to the punch ! > Of course mine are not for sale. Just to look at. Especially for Kitty and > Axel ! > > http://picasaweb.google.com/hilmarandheidi/SEARLESLAKEMINERALS > ?authkey=WoITuyof0gk# > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Dec 23 14:47:57 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Dec 23 14:48:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> Kris, That happened the first time I tried it too. Then I noticed that the last several characters of the address were missing. You have to go back to the e-mail and copy the whole thing, or paste the last part in. Hilmar, Good pictures! Aloha, Kitty Kris Rowe wrote: > Howdy, Hilmar! > I went to look for your luscious pics, and the > Gallery listed as empty. From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Dec 23 15:01:33 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Dec 23 15:01:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com><11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the front yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the grass tomorrow. Aloha, Kitty John Siebel wrote: > In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" that > Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the tropics. > > John > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Dec 23 15:18:35 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Dec 23 15:18:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net><831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <6D342E2407E547E095DB245A1BDA118F@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Kitty and Kris I had to do something with the "?" in the URL too but I forgot what it was... I've done some cutting and pasting with it and suddenly it worked (a bit like they did with me the past few years... cutting and pasting, I mean ;-)))) I 'm very interested what comes out with the hanksite... I passed up quite a few good looking specimens because I feared that they would suck up water and crumble like the one I had. I had a very pretty fluorescing glauberite that suffered the same fate. It's always a shame to loose the fluorescence while preserving the specimen with acryl spray. I've tested vinylcarbonate and that seems to be transparent to UV. If someone could make a spray out of that... then again, most vinyl monomers are carcinogenic. Or so I was told. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: dinsdag 23 december 2008 23:48 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] HALITE > > Kris, > > That happened the first time I tried it too. Then I noticed that the > last several characters of the address were missing. You have to go > back to the e-mail and copy the whole thing, or paste the last part in. > > Hilmar, > > Good pictures! > > Aloha, Kitty > > Kris Rowe wrote: > > Howdy, Hilmar! > > I went to look for your luscious pics, and the > > Gallery listed as empty. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 23 15:33:49 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 23 15:57:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com><11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <71B2F017547049D1AD0F50E8584F693C@Notebook> So rub my nose in your lovely weather Kitty! I just warmed a quart of oil by the wood stove and heated up the spark plug to the big generator to pump enough water to get us through the week. Just to keep on topic, I'm enjoying a couple of fossil pelecypods from Beverly Beach, Oregon as I label the goodies. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 > degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the > vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from > that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from where > the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back yard are > blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the front yard. And > instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the grass > tomorrow. > From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Tue Dec 23 16:07:36 2008 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Tue Dec 23 16:07:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> Message-ID: <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> ____________________________________________ On 2008.Dec.23., at 0812, Axel Emmermann wrote: > How do you keep the hanksite from "melting"? > Cheers and thanks for sharing the images. > > Axel __________________________________________________ You are welcome Axel. Yes, I sprayed all my Hanksites to prevent them from going white. Two light coats of automotive clearcoat. I find this stuff works really well. No runs, no orangepeel, no yellowing, just about completely unnoticeable. Available in automotive supply stores. The Halites are not sprayed. Just kept inside a drawer in complete darkness. Once again : The colouring is not derived from bacteria or algae. It comes from Haloarchaea which live in the brine. (Some of it has the colour of wine or cranberries, that dark) And the colouring agent is not manganese. It is carotene. My information on that is derived from somebody in the academic community at University of British Columbia who is studying just this stuff (Sasha Wilson, Biology in Mineralogy) And again : Everybody, if you get the chance - go to Searles Lake ! Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 18:20:08 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Tue Dec 23 18:20:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812231820t1ab04225n3c825decdbed739@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Kitty! I got out into the Christmas Rush, and sitting in traffic, thought the same thing! Just goes to show, even I can get into half-awake mode during the Holidays. BTW, Happy Holidays, and Happy whatever-you-celebrate. Be safe, and ... Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Kris, > > That happened the first time I tried it too. Then I noticed that the last > several characters of the address were missing. You have to go back to the > e-mail and copy the whole thing, or paste the last part in. > > Hilmar, > > Good pictures! > > Aloha, Kitty > > Kris Rowe wrote: > >> Howdy, Hilmar! >> I went to look for your luscious pics, and the >> Gallery listed as empty. >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 18:39:36 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Tue Dec 23 18:39:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812231820t1ab04225n3c825decdbed739@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <831c9ad10812231437s3e1fe6bcva6cf985c7e7fba83@mail.gmail.com> <49516A9D.3070008@hawaiiantel.net> <831c9ad10812231820t1ab04225n3c825decdbed739@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812231839v38626da5te0daf6e6a3da9331@mail.gmail.com> Oh, and a big thanks to you too, Hilmar! I'd been looking for a full explanation, and that's the closest and least technically baffling I've found yet. Now, this awakens another quest: To understand exactly just what Haloarchaea are! This should only take a few decades, since they must be genetically sequenced to find out exactly what family branch they derive from and .... AAAAAARRGGGGGHHHH! Lets just say that they're halogenic caratogenic single celled micro-organisms, and leave me to my inacuracies. (And my finger going up and down over my lips, producing that great "blblblblblblblblblblbl ..." sound that Mel Blanc always cracked me up with! *grin!*) No matter whether you know what colors the halite, you can enjoy your very own specimen. And yes, I have some "WOWHEE!" Cranberyy and Port Wine colored cabinet pieces, that, did they not smell like Beelzebub's BVD's, would be already gracing million dollar homes in the high rent district. Seems that folks with that much money aren't fond of even the faintest hint of hydrogen sulfide. (Just the stink of money, not that I mind. Some of my best friends are rich ... they tell me all the time! *GRIN!*) Atanyrate, my thanks! Kris On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Kris Rowe wrote: > Thanks, Kitty! > I got out into the Christmas Rush, and sitting in > traffic, thought the same thing! Just goes to show, even I can get into > half-awake mode during the Holidays. BTW, Happy Holidays, and Happy > whatever-you-celebrate. Be safe, and ... > > Be Well! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > > > > > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox < > kahako@hawaiiantel.net> wrote: > >> Kris, >> >> That happened the first time I tried it too. Then I noticed that the last >> several characters of the address were missing. You have to go back to the >> e-mail and copy the whole thing, or paste the last part in. >> >> Hilmar, >> >> Good pictures! >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> Kris Rowe wrote: >> >>> Howdy, Hilmar! >>> I went to look for your luscious pics, and the >>> Gallery listed as empty. >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 18:52:44 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Tue Dec 23 18:52:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <71B2F017547049D1AD0F50E8584F693C@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> <71B2F017547049D1AD0F50E8584F693C@Notebook> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812231852r402b4d1dr5d36633ba6565f21@mail.gmail.com> Here in the sunny Central Valley of "Kalifornia" it's a toasty 54 deg., with an expected drop to near freezing tonight. Hope it's not a hard freeze, our oranges are just a couple of weeks from peak ripeness. I commiserate with all who're enduring this harsh weather, since in my youth, I spent 2 days in a 17 deg. snowdrift in Bozeman, Montana, rebuilding a GMC bus's power steering. The effusive thanks from my employer ("you're filthy, go take a shower.") was one of the factors in my eventual decision to be my own boss. Oh, how he prided himself on being a mensch! *lol* Kepp Warm, Everyone! Kris On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 3:33 PM, John Siebel wrote: > So rub my nose in your lovely weather Kitty! I just warmed a quart of oil > by the wood stove and heated up the spark plug to the big generator to pump > enough water to get us through the week. Just to keep on topic, I'm enjoying > a couple of fossil pelecypods from Beverly Beach, Oregon as I label the > goodies. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" < > kahako@hawaiiantel.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > > > Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 >> degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the vent >> at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from that vent, >> and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from where the lava is >> pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back yard are blooming and >> there are tangerines on the tree in the front yard. And instead of having to >> shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the grass tomorrow. >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Dec 23 21:44:14 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Dec 23 21:44:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: I can only wish. We're facing our 3rd snowiest December in history in West Michigan and may pass it tonight as another nine inches are expected. I take consolation that is has also been snowing in Hawaii on Mauna Kea. Snow is a mineral. Kreigh On Tuesday, Dec 23, 2008, at 18:01 America/Detroit, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's > 74 degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from > the vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud > from that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam > from where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our > back yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the > front yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better > mow the grass tomorrow. > > Aloha, Kitty > > John Siebel wrote: >> In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" >> that Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the >> tropics. >> >> John >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Dec 23 21:54:39 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 23 21:54:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <71B2F017547049D1AD0F50E8584F693C@Notebook> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com><11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> <71B2F0! 17547049D1AD0F50E8584F6 93C@Notebook> Message-ID: <003901c9658c$1cc6d7b0$56548710$@com> Whatcha got? I have some nice Crepidula from Beverly, and the Anadara are plentiful as sand there. Lots of other clammy bits too :) Kitty: too bad my sis is coming here (to Whistler actually) for Xmas this year, last year we spent the day on the beach and snorkeling at Lanikai in front of her condo :) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather So rub my nose in your lovely weather Kitty! I just warmed a quart of oil by the wood stove and heated up the spark plug to the big generator to pump enough water to get us through the week. Just to keep on topic, I'm enjoying a couple of fossil pelecypods from Beverly Beach, Oregon as I label the goodies. John From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Dec 23 21:59:55 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 23 22:00:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <003a01c9658c$d91fb350$8b5f19f0$@com> Huh that's nuttin' compared to PDX, they are calling it the worst storm in 40 years and that's not including tomorrow. My prediction came true, we've been out of power since a few minutes after I sent that. 14" on the ground & 8" more forecasted for tomorrow, I think this will be the year without a Christmas for us. Our son was stuck here since Thurs when he came over to replace his starter, he finally got home this AM after my wife had had enough and decided to try to get to work in my mighty Dodge RAM TOUGH lol. She got lucky, the highway is closed by wrecks right past the bridge over the Clackamas that leads here (there is one other way in and that exit was blocked with 3 wrecks). Portland shuts down when it snows, the county declared a state of emergency, no doubt because they can't even get their s**t together enough to plow the _highways_ let alone the major arterials. This damn loud generator is driving me CRAZY! No cable modem! Burning up my cord of wood in a week! I have been reduced to sucking gas out of the lawn tractor! Cuckoo for cocoa puffs! Is unleaded a mineral? -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:44 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather I can only wish. We're facing our 3rd snowiest December in history in West Michigan and may pass it tonight as another nine inches are expected. I take consolation that is has also been snowing in Hawaii on Mauna Kea. Snow is a mineral. Kreigh From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Dec 23 22:05:19 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Dec 23 22:05:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook> <000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com> <11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <004001c9658d$99f2a560$cdd7f020$@com> Arco? I think that's the definition of "middle of nowhere"! Oh well they do have some pretty rocks :) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 2:27 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather I just heard something the other day that I have never heard of before. Some guy in Colorado was talking about 'Non Avalanche Snow Death' (if I got that right) where people apparently step into very deep powder snow, sink to the bottom, and suffocate. I think they had 100 inches of powder there. The area I spent a winter in Idaho at, Arco, got just about zero snow being in the wind shadow of the mountains. It did get to 42 below and we had 6 weeks of never above zero temps. That was more than enough for this Florida boy. BK On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 17:09, John Siebel wrote: > Lanny Wrote: > >> You know it's winter when you spend a lot of your time shoveling the path >> to the outhouse! >> > > Nah Lanny, > > The path to the outhouse is well traveled. You know it's winter when you > have to shovel the roof! Last year I had to trench the front of our cabin > several times to keep the snow from bashing through the front window as it > slid off the roof. And our woodshed collapsed under the weight of over 20 > feet of snow. We've got a mere 34" to date. But our neighbor's Cat is busted > and he can't plow us out so I am parked a mile away where the county plows > the road. In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" > that Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the tropics. > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dawnmfredricks at comcast.net Tue Dec 23 22:33:39 2008 From: dawnmfredricks at comcast.net (dawnmfredricks@comcast.net) Date: Tue Dec 23 22:33:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! Dawn Portland Oregon (waiting the next 1 - 5" they are predicting tonight!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:01:33 PM GMT -08:00 Tijuana / Baja California Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the front yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the grass tomorrow. Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Dec 23 23:15:30 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Dec 23 23:16:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Beverly Beach, OR References: 17547049D1AD0F50E8584F6 93C@Notebook> <003901c9658c$1cc6d7b0$56548710$@com> Message-ID: <7BD00018D0264DA7B7ED71CC0C6CCCB8@Notebook> I'm not sure what I've got Tim. Give me a clue. http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3132066625/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3132080095/ John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > Whatcha got? I have some nice Crepidula from Beverly, and the Anadara are > plentiful as sand there. Lots of other clammy bits too :) From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 24 03:37:23 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 24 03:37:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> > I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! [Axel] and help her mow the lawn.... Axel having a green Christmas at about 45? F cloudy, calm weather;-))) The only white I'll be seeing will be on top of my Irish coffee tonight. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 24 03:41:04 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 24 03:41:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com><70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> Message-ID: <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? Carotene, hm? That would mean that Haloarchaea, however primitive, must have great eyesight. (remember: eat your carrots, it's good for your eyes?) Carotene is UV sensitive I think. Axel > ____________________________________________ > On 2008.Dec.23., at 0812, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > How do you keep the hanksite from "melting"? > > Cheers and thanks for sharing the images. > > > > Axel > > __________________________________________________ > > > You are welcome Axel. > Yes, I sprayed all my Hanksites to prevent them from going white. > Two light coats of automotive clearcoat. I find this stuff works > really well. > No runs, no orangepeel, no yellowing, just about completely > unnoticeable. > Available in automotive supply stores. > > The Halites are not sprayed. Just kept inside a drawer in complete > darkness. > Once again : > The colouring is not derived from bacteria or algae. > It comes from Haloarchaea which live in the brine. > (Some of it has the colour of wine or cranberries, that dark) > And the colouring agent is not manganese. It is carotene. > My information on that is derived from somebody in the academic > community at University of British Columbia > who is studying just this stuff (Sasha Wilson, Biology in Mineralogy) > > And again : Everybody, if you get the chance - go to Searles Lake ! > > Hilmar > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Dec 24 05:49:00 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Dec 24 05:49:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: And here in balmy New Jersey we are currently having rain fall from the leaden skies -- but we still have 8" of snow on the ground from our two previous storms. This is the most snow we've seen in years, and it's about time we had a proper winter. I miss those upslope storms we used to experience in Golden, CO, several of which dumped more than 36" of snow in one storm along the Front Range. Now THAT was fun! Took me five hours to shovel my way to the car, though. It's a perfect day to spend at home cataloguing minerals. There. OT. Cheers- Earl On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:37:23 +0100, wrote: >> I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! > > [Axel] and help her mow the lawn.... > > Axel having a green Christmas at about 45? F cloudy, calm weather;-))) > The only white I'll be seeing will be on top of my Irish coffee tonight. > > > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Dec 24 06:47:56 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Dec 24 06:48:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net><1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <565EEA1FE99747AAB399AA0773E896B3@AXELDESKTOP> > And here in balmy New Jersey we are currently having rain fall from the > leaden skies -- but we still have 8" of snow on the ground from our two > previous storms. And the streets are paved with porridge... Snow is a bit like hanksite... fun and pretty until it melts (LOL) I'm expecting my sister and brother-in-law to kick in the front door any time now. Normally they would ring the bell but they are so loaded with presents that they haven't a free finger to push the button. Eggnog and bubbles and candles everywhere.... This is a new one Earl, cataloguing by candle light? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Earl R. Verbeek > Verzonden: woensdag 24 december 2008 14:49 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > > And here in balmy New Jersey we are currently having rain fall from the > leaden skies -- but we still have 8" of snow on the ground from our two > previous storms. This is the most snow we've seen in years, and it's about > time we had a proper winter. I miss those upslope storms we used to > experience in Golden, CO, several of which dumped more than 36" of snow in > one storm along the Front Range. Now THAT was fun! Took me five hours to > shovel my way to the car, though. > > It's a perfect day to spend at home cataloguing minerals. There. OT. > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:37:23 +0100, wrote: > >> I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! > > > > [Axel] and help her mow the lawn.... > > > > Axel having a green Christmas at about 45? F cloudy, calm weather;-))) > > The only white I'll be seeing will be on top of my Irish coffee tonight. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 24 06:53:40 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Dec 24 06:57:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Night Before Christmas References: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <4C8959A46E134CA18A7C8662D6475881@LarryRush> Message-ID: <13D55518227C4FB3839E17130972B6BF@LarryRush> It's been a few years since I last submitted this...for the newcomers then, here it is again.... THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS (A COMPUTER VISIT FROM ST. NICCOLITE) (With apologies to Clement C. Moore) By Larry Rush 'Twas the night before Christmas, when through the Rockhound's list, Not a subscriber was posting, neither mister nor miss; The e-mail was stored on the server with care, In hopes that the spammers would not visit there. The rockhounds were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of Emeralds danced in their heads. And I, clutching my Estwing and old collecting pack, Had just settled down for a long winters nap, When down in the computer room there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter. Away to the hallway, and crossing the floor, I tore down the stairs and threw open the door. The light from the Gateway monitor below, Gave the luster of mid-day to objects aglow, When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But an internet graphic; a pick-up sleigh and eight rockhounds there. With a little old webmaster, so lively and bright, I knew in a moment it must be St. Niccolite. More rapid than Microsoft his posters they came, And he whistled and shouted, and called them by name. Now Kreigh, now Axel, now Pete and Lanny, On Earl, on John, on Margaret and Kitty! To the top of the screen, to the top of the list, Now mail away, mail away, mail away quick! And, as subscribers to AOL often cry, When they meet with a virus, the tempers they fly, So on to Bett's home page the collectors they flew, With the screen full of slabs, and St. Niccolite, too. And then in a twinkling, I saw on John's site, Beautiful images of fossils and Rhodochrosite. As I clicked more on my mouse to surf around, Back onto my screen came St. Nick with a bound. He was dressed all in demin, from his feet to his shirt, And his clothes were all stained with Limonite dirt. A bundle of crystals he had flung on his back, And he looked like a miner with a full collecting pack. His eyes twinkled like Zircons, his dimples how merry! His cheeks like rose Quartz, his nose like agate of cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up with an Apatite, And the beard of his chin was as white as a Calcite. The stump of a pipe he held firm with his bite, And the smoke encircled his head like Hemimorphite. He had a broad face and a little round belly, That shook when he laughed like a bowl of Opal (jelly). He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old rockhound, And I laughed when I saw him, right out of the Red Cloud. A wink of his eye and a twist of his head, Soon gave me to know he had Galena and lead! He spoke not a word but went straight to his right, And filled all the Perkies with Beryl and Wulfenite. And laying his hammer aside of the frame, And giving a nod, to the Escape key he came. He sprang to his pickup, to his pals gave a whistle, And away they all browsed like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he faded from sight, Good collecting to all, (and for the fluorescents, a Good Light!). Merry Christmas to the Rockhound Group. May all your presents be crystallized! From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 24 08:45:53 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Dec 24 08:49:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Indian gemstones References: <851A698C-D0A8-11DD-9B29-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <4C8959A46E134CA18A7C8662D6475881@LarryRush> Message-ID: <1BB004EB0DFC462BAEED325FBD556B8E@LarryRush> I did a quick posting of the new Indian Beryl and Corundum on my site. http://www.connroxminerals.com/India1.html The Christmas Sale discount of 25% will apply until the end of January (I know, I know...everyone spent their Christmas money already!) Larry Rush From hammerron at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 09:43:30 2008 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Wed Dec 24 09:43:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Purple Halite Picture Message-ID: <238164.52239.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I thought this might be of interest on the subject of halite. http://hammerron.com/minerals/halite.jpg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Wed Dec 24 10:19:29 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Dec 24 10:19:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net><1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <37F4A6949F93446AA429A26CED1D9561@kadok> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather >> I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! >[Axel] and help her mow the lawn.... >Axel having a green Christmas at about 45? F cloudy, calm weather;-))) >The only white I'll be seeing will be on top of my Irish coffee tonight. I'm ready to go! And I'm willing to help mow the lawn --! Even in So Utah I had 6-10 inches of snow in the yard, and it wasn't melting! I finally got out, though--. Margaret -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Dec 24 10:42:23 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 24 10:42:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <37F4A6949F93446AA429A26CED1D9561@kadok> References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net><1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <21EB743A879047498853BD6603E8F51E@AXELDESKTOP> <37F4A6949F93446AA429A26CED1D9561@kadok> Message-ID: <4952828F.2060507@hawaiiantel.net> OK, come ahead! ;-) A few years ago we had 16 house guests for Christmas. Admittedly there were people sleeping on futons and sofas, and in a couple of tents on the lanai, but it worked out pretty well. The day after Christmas half the group went to the beach and the other half went to the volcano. Aloha, Kitty Margaret Malm wrote: > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > > >>> I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's >>> [Axel] and help her mow the lawn.... >>> > I'm ready to go! And I'm willing to help mow the lawn --! > Even in So Utah I had 6-10 inches of snow in the yard, and it wasn't > melting! I finally got out, though--. > > Margaret > > > From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Wed Dec 24 11:10:01 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Wed Dec 24 11:10:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><0EBC663B57284436BEFBF0D6FE1FE304@Notebook><1FEDCA91C620400283C5F91104E7BD09@AXELDESKTOP><87E4E8DBC53B41E5BAA2AE21A3D41C3D@Notebook><8CB303EF1AB9663-DD4-6A7@WEBMAIL-MY10.sysops.aol.com><8CB30442702B34F-1424-612@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com><831c9ad10812202150yfb10bb5hb468e0bf8f65233b@mail.gmail.com><6427650E6E764D029668287203205C58@Montana><831c9ad10812202238k40b3daeeidbf262f802c97ddd@mail.gmail.com> <26B781A6248A43B18BA5393455903C20@Notebook><000c01c963da$116f0a80$344d1f80$@com><11FC4EFE-39DF-4805-9E5F-A2A1D4ED134B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <876081FC-2D87-4481-B379-F02E17A89B68@roadrunner.com> Hi John, Looks like we are heading for those records again along with Kreigh (and a whole of other people in areas of the northern latitudes). I'm tired of clearing snow, but am glad I'm not trying to fly anywhere! Would someone please transport me to New Zealand? It sure is pretty out, and we are having fun looking at those rocks and minerals! Merry Christmas, Lanny On Dec 23, 2008, at 2:09 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Lanny Wrote: >> You know it's winter when you spend a lot of your time shoveling >> the path to the outhouse! > > Nah Lanny, > > The path to the outhouse is well traveled. You know it's winter when > you have to shovel the roof! Last year I had to trench the front of > our cabin several times to keep the snow from bashing through the > front window as it slid off the roof. And our woodshed collapsed > under the weight of over 20 feet of snow. We've got a mere 34" to > date. But our neighbor's Cat is busted and he can't plow us out so I > am parked a mile away where the county plows the road. In the mean > time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" that Kitty sent > me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the tropics. > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 12:02:04 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Dec 24 12:02:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812241202m456ed9dl3bd7b7f9a765710d@mail.gmail.com> Axel, clearcoat is the final finish that is applied over the pigmented finish on your car, and my bicycle! ("Ring! ... Ring!") I'll have to do some research, about UV transparency, but I think if you ask at the local professional auto supply store (NOT Kragens, etc.) for a non-UV protecting clearcoat, they may look strangely at you, but should have it. You can also find an auto finish supply store (even small towns have one out here in Kali) in the Yellow Pages, or Google. Be aware that most of the finishes come in bulk, and meant for a professional spray rigs, but the stores usually stock some sort of solution for the regular guy. My favorite is a screw top spray bottle that's self propelled. Take my advice and let the fellow at the store mix it for you, unless you've painted cars before, or wish to wear a great shine for a loooooong time on your nails! *LOL* Remember above all else, no matter if you have a Phd, the guy at the paint store will almost always treat you as if you're a retarded child. Pity him, for he must deal with know-it-alls like me all day. *grin!* Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties Fresno, Kalifornia On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 3:41 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? > > Carotene, hm? That would mean that Haloarchaea, however primitive, must > have > great eyesight. (remember: eat your carrots, it's good for your eyes?) > Carotene is UV sensitive I think. > > Axel > > > ____________________________________________ > > On 2008.Dec.23., at 0812, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > How do you keep the hanksite from "melting"? > > > Cheers and thanks for sharing the images. > > > > > > Axel > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > You are welcome Axel. > > Yes, I sprayed all my Hanksites to prevent them from going white. > > Two light coats of automotive clearcoat. I find this stuff works > > really well. > > No runs, no orangepeel, no yellowing, just about completely > > unnoticeable. > > Available in automotive supply stores. > > > > The Halites are not sprayed. Just kept inside a drawer in complete > > darkness. > > Once again : > > The colouring is not derived from bacteria or algae. > > It comes from Haloarchaea which live in the brine. > > (Some of it has the colour of wine or cranberries, that dark) > > And the colouring agent is not manganese. It is carotene. > > My information on that is derived from somebody in the academic > > community at University of British Columbia > > who is studying just this stuff (Sasha Wilson, Biology in Mineralogy) > > > > And again : Everybody, if you get the chance - go to Searles Lake ! > > > > Hilmar > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Dec 24 12:08:08 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 24 12:08:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495296A8.10901@hawaiiantel.net> Perhaps it's a good time of year to point out that John & Julie's address is in SANTA, Idaho. And definitely off-topic, there's a town in Oregon named Aloha. Aloha, Kitty Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I can only wish. We're facing our 3rd snowiest December in history in > West Michigan and may pass it tonight as another nine inches are > expected. I take consolation that is has also been snowing in Hawaii > on Mauna Kea. Snow is a mineral. > > Kreigh > > > On Tuesday, Dec 23, 2008, at 18:01 America/Detroit, Kitty & Bill > Heacox wrote: > >> Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's >> 74 degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from >> the vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud >> from that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam >> from where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in >> our back yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in >> the front yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd >> better mow the grass tomorrow. >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> John Siebel wrote: >>> In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" >>> that Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the >> >>> tropics. >>> >>> John >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 24 10:00:39 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 24 12:13:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <003a01c9658c$d91fb350$8b5f19f0$@com> Message-ID: Only in a crude sort of way. On Wednesday, Dec 24, 2008, at 00:59 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: > Is unleaded a mineral? From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Dec 24 12:15:28 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Dec 24 12:16:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather References: <495296A8.10901@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: And our neighbor, Bill, spends his summers here in Santa and winters in North Pole, Alaska! Merry Christmas to all - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather > Perhaps it's a good time of year to point out that John & Julie's address > is in SANTA, Idaho. > And definitely off-topic, there's a town in Oregon named Aloha. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> I can only wish. We're facing our 3rd snowiest December in history in >> West Michigan and may pass it tonight as another nine inches are >> expected. I take consolation that is has also been snowing in Hawaii on >> Mauna Kea. Snow is a mineral. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> On Tuesday, Dec 23, 2008, at 18:01 America/Detroit, Kitty & Bill Heacox >> wrote: >> >>> Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 >>> degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the >>> vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from >>> that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from >>> where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back >>> yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the front >>> yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the >>> grass tomorrow. >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> John Siebel wrote: >>>> In the mean time I am cuddling a piece of, "Freshly Cooled Lava" that >>>> Kitty sent me from Hawaii and pretending that I'm in the >> tropics. >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Dec 24 12:19:57 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Dec 24 12:20:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812241202m456ed9dl3bd7b7f9a765710d@mail.gmail.com> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> <831c9ad10812241202m456ed9dl3bd7b7f9a765710d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4952996D.6010901@hawaiiantel.net> I don't have pictures, but I have a piece of halite from underground salt caverns near Carlsbad, New Mexico, that is a dark blue. And another one from the Mississippi Potash East Mine, Carlsbad, Eddy County, New Mexico that is clear with what look like blue cubes suspended in it. (I bought them from a dealer and don't know any more about the collection site or what causes the blue.) Aloha, Kitty From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Dec 24 15:00:15 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Dec 24 15:00:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <495296A8.10901@hawaiiantel.net> References: <495296A8.10901@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <001f01c9661b$631572f0$294058d0$@com> There ain't no such thing as a coincidence. We lived in Aloha for 5 years :) Mele Kalikimaka to all! Mahalo! -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 12:08 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather Perhaps it's a good time of year to point out that John & Julie's address is in SANTA, Idaho. And definitely off-topic, there's a town in Oregon named Aloha. Aloha, Kitty From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Dec 24 15:02:23 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Dec 24 15:02:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com><70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <002001c9661b$afe35070$0fa9f150$@com> Clearcoat here in the states refers to cheap clear spray paint, usually Krylon. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:41 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] HALITE Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? Carotene, hm? That would mean that Haloarchaea, however primitive, must have great eyesight. (remember: eat your carrots, it's good for your eyes?) Carotene is UV sensitive I think. Axel > ____________________________________________ > On 2008.Dec.23., at 0812, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > How do you keep the hanksite from "melting"? > > Cheers and thanks for sharing the images. > > > > Axel > > __________________________________________________ > > > You are welcome Axel. > Yes, I sprayed all my Hanksites to prevent them from going white. > Two light coats of automotive clearcoat. I find this stuff works > really well. > No runs, no orangepeel, no yellowing, just about completely > unnoticeable. > Available in automotive supply stores. > > The Halites are not sprayed. Just kept inside a drawer in complete > darkness. > Once again : > The colouring is not derived from bacteria or algae. > It comes from Haloarchaea which live in the brine. > (Some of it has the colour of wine or cranberries, that dark) > And the colouring agent is not manganese. It is carotene. > My information on that is derived from somebody in the academic > community at University of British Columbia > who is studying just this stuff (Sasha Wilson, Biology in Mineralogy) > > And again : Everybody, if you get the chance - go to Searles Lake ! > > Hilmar > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Dec 24 15:04:46 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Dec 24 15:04:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather In-Reply-To: <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <49516DCD.6020900@hawaiiantel.net> <1799201749.668551230100419011.JavaMail.root@sz0074a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <002101c9661c$04c5f750$0e51e5f0$@com> Good thing we only got the 1". It was enough to get a Don Pancho taco trailer sideways on the only bridge that is open now. Then the tow truck got stuck in a drift! UGH! 48 hours and no power :( -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of dawnmfredricks@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 10:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather I vote that next Christmas we all go to Kitty's! Dawn Portland Oregon (waiting the next 1 - 5" they are predicting tonight!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 3:01:33 PM GMT -08:00 Tijuana / Baja California Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Winter Weather Well, just so you can fill in some details for your pretending, it's 74 degrees (F) here with just enough breeze to blow away the vog from the vent at Halema'uma'u Crater. From our house we can see the cloud from that vent, and the cloud from Pu'u O'o, and the column of steam from where the lava is pouring into the ocean. The poinsettias in our back yard are blooming and there are tangerines on the tree in the front yard. And instead of having to shovel snow, I think I'd better mow the grass tomorrow. Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Dec 24 15:30:05 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Dec 24 15:29:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com><70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <4952C5FD.7020804@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? That's a generic term for a clear paint or coating here in the states; usually acrylic or some related plastic resin. Keep in mind that coating specimens only delays the inevitable. I once looked over some specimens for the museum, and among the collection was a box labeled as halite or some other evaporite alkali halide, and inside the box was a wet, white sludge--along with a skin of some sort of clear coating in the vague shape of a crystal cluster. It looked like a snake had shed its skin. In the end, nature will always win, unless you keep the specimen in an isolated equilibrated microenvironment. I wonder about UV transparency regarding various coatings. Many plastics block SW, though I have found that very thin plastics, such as Saran wrap (a thin plastic sheet for wrapping your food), will allow SW to pass. Many plastics will also fluoresce in LW. I coated some Franklin material with a very thin layer or Norland Optical Adhesive, and it did not affect the SW fluorescence. Of course, those specimens are very responsive and I would not have noticed a slight diminution in intensity. Best, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Dec 24 23:47:13 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Dec 24 23:46:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] CAT scan reveals inner workings of volcano island Message-ID: <3E1BF94C-D258-11DD-B533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> On the ground and in the water, an international team of researchers has been collecting imaging data on the Soufriere Hills Volcano in Montserrat to understand the internal structure of the volcano and how and when it erupts. "Using land-based measurement, we can see that over the time periods when the magma is erupting, the ground surface deflates into a bowl of subsidence and when the magma is sealed underground, the ground surface inflates like a balloon," says Barry Voight, professor emeritus of geosciences, Penn State. "The interesting thing is that much more magma is erupting than appears represented by the subsiding bowl." Voight suggests a simple model to explain this discrepancy seen through the various eruptive phases and pauses of the volcano. http://live.psu.edu/story/36501 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Dec 25 10:34:22 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Dec 25 10:34:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: <4952C5FD.7020804@verizon.net> References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net><28719BFC-711A-4569-9223-AC4EF147161D@telus.net><831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com><70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net><7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net><1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> <4952C5FD.7020804@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, I noticed that bubble-wrap is transparent to SW too. Most of it, at least. The minerals that are wrapped in it fluoresce, even when there's 2 or 3 layers of BW around them. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens DonH > Verzonden: donderdag 25 december 2008 0:30 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] HALITE > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? > > > That's a generic term for a clear paint or coating here in the states; > usually acrylic or some related plastic resin. > > Keep in mind that coating specimens only delays the inevitable. I once > looked over some specimens for the museum, and among the collection was > a box labeled as halite or some other evaporite alkali halide, and > inside the box was a wet, white sludge--along with a skin of some sort > of clear coating in the vague shape of a crystal cluster. It looked > like a snake had shed its skin. In the end, nature will always win, > unless you keep the specimen in an isolated equilibrated microenvironment. > > I wonder about UV transparency regarding various coatings. Many > plastics block SW, though I have found that very thin plastics, such as > Saran wrap (a thin plastic sheet for wrapping your food), will allow SW > to pass. Many plastics will also fluoresce in LW. > > I coated some Franklin material with a very thin layer or Norland > Optical Adhesive, and it did not affect the SW fluorescence. Of course, > those specimens are very responsive and I would not have noticed a > slight diminution in intensity. > > > Best, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 25 18:41:51 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 25 18:41:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] What does the fossil record tell us about when true birds appeared? Message-ID: One of the most contentious issues among scientists who study the evolution of birds is identifying precisely when the modern birds (Neornithes) first appeared. This is due to conflicts between the fossil record and molecular dating methodologies. But there is another way to address this discrepancy. Because the evolution of parrots and cockatoos reflects the evolution of the birds (Aves) themselves, studying the psittaciformes offers compelling insights into this mystery. Further, because psittaciformes generally are not migratory and because they tend to occupy discrete ranges, their ancient patterns of diversification are easier to discern than for many other taxonomic orders of birds that have dispersed widely. http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2008/12/ the_evolution_and_origin_of_pa.php From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Thu Dec 25 19:12:17 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Thu Dec 25 19:12:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HALITE In-Reply-To: References: <49430DA0.20104@hawaiiantel.net> <831c9ad10812201554t20fcb417vaca699540b58e352@mail.gmail.com> <70201BAD-7B18-4D50-A79F-A4D9B7188C59@telus.net> <7C4EBF1E-246E-4704-A5D3-6462624FA40E@telus.net> <1DA4B3FEF4164E79804EDD0872B4E8ED@AXELDESKTOP> <4952C5FD.7020804@verizon.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812251912s1dbfaa3ex34f75a5ad846745@mail.gmail.com> Merry X-mas, y'all! Axel, the sludge that you found has appeared in my nightmares! But, I've seen some halite in recent months that was as old as 49 years in a collection. The key is to keep that desert dryness, the humidity free environment. Like radioactive minerals, these might be considerd a specialty. Even if you must replace them every year or so, you can take hi-rez digital pics, and then see some enthusiatic supplier like myself to get new ones! My prices are so affordable that the only pain is in giving away your old halites! Thankfully, there's always a museum around, ready to "sludgify" them for you! *lol* Thanks for the great ongoing discussion, y'all! Kris On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Don, > > I noticed that bubble-wrap is transparent to SW too. Most of it, at least. > The minerals that are wrapped in it fluoresce, even when there's 2 or 3 > layers of BW around them. > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens DonH > > Verzonden: donderdag 25 december 2008 0:30 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] HALITE > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > Clearcoat: is that some kind of wax? > > > > > > That's a generic term for a clear paint or coating here in the states; > > usually acrylic or some related plastic resin. > > > > Keep in mind that coating specimens only delays the inevitable. I once > > looked over some specimens for the museum, and among the collection was > > a box labeled as halite or some other evaporite alkali halide, and > > inside the box was a wet, white sludge--along with a skin of some sort > > of clear coating in the vague shape of a crystal cluster. It looked > > like a snake had shed its skin. In the end, nature will always win, > > unless you keep the specimen in an isolated equilibrated > microenvironment. > > > > I wonder about UV transparency regarding various coatings. Many > > plastics block SW, though I have found that very thin plastics, such as > > Saran wrap (a thin plastic sheet for wrapping your food), will allow SW > > to pass. Many plastics will also fluoresce in LW. > > > > I coated some Franklin material with a very thin layer or Norland > > Optical Adhesive, and it did not affect the SW fluorescence. Of course, > > those specimens are very responsive and I would not have noticed a > > slight diminution in intensity. > > > > > > Best, > > Don > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Dec 25 20:18:35 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Dec 25 20:18:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas Message-ID: <437B0CB2-D304-11DD-B533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> As Christmas draws to an end I wish all of you a Merry Christmas. Please share my joy as I celebrate the birth of Jesus, even if you do not believe. Happiness is contagious, and we can all use some of it in these troubled times. One of my daughters put labeled mineral and fossil specimens into my stocking, that was hung by the fireplace with care. A thoughtful gift of love is always appreciated. In this season of joy and giving I hope you took the opportunity to make others happy, and received more than you gave in return. Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Dec 26 05:01:08 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Dec 26 05:01:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] What does the fossil record tell us about when truebirds appeared? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98DD21A221444B1D80C5A2602CD62792@AXELDESKTOP> > One of the most contentious issues among scientists who study the > evolution of birds is identifying precisely when the modern birds > (Neornithes) first appeared. I always find these issues somewhat artificial in nature. When I look at a pelican I cannot help to see a dactylosaurus (however they bare more resemblance to our modern bats)... A giraffe is as strange to me as a diplodocus. Stranger, in fact, because it lacks the tail for balance. I think that most classifications are based on the shaky ground that evolution is a discrete, non-continuous process. The idea is a bit of an inherited notion from back when people thought that the earth was 8.000 years old in my opinion. When a species is successful there are many individuals of it and chances of finding a fossil record increases. Intermediate species, thrown into the world by the pressure of a changing environment may be less numerous and therefore we may lack knowledge of their existence. I would not be very surprised if the greater part of dinosaurs were warm-blooded or in other ways closer to mammals. Also: some geological periods or events favour conservation of fossils while others give rise to decay. Isn't it likely that entire families of dinosaurs just never dwelled in an environment that was "fossil-friendly". Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 december 2008 3:42 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What does the fossil record tell us about when truebirds > appeared? > > One of the most contentious issues among scientists who study the > evolution of birds is identifying precisely when the modern birds > (Neornithes) first appeared. This is due to conflicts between the > fossil record and molecular dating methodologies. > > But there is another way to address this discrepancy. Because the > evolution of parrots and cockatoos reflects the evolution of the birds > (Aves) themselves, studying the psittaciformes offers compelling > insights into this mystery. > > Further, because psittaciformes generally are not migratory and because > they tend to occupy discrete ranges, their ancient patterns of > diversification are easier to discern than for many other taxonomic > orders of birds that have dispersed widely. > > http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2008/12/ > the_evolution_and_origin_of_pa.php > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Alpen at aol.com Fri Dec 26 08:57:58 2008 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 26 08:58:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mexico Message-ID: I hope everyone had a very nice Christmas. A friend just flew to Mexico City and will fly out of Zihuatanejo in a couple weeks. She's interested in doing some rockhounding so I figured I check with the group to see if anyone has any suggestions of places anywhere between those cities? She has a wide spectrum of interest, so any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks in advance. Eric **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From silverado at frontiernet.net Fri Dec 26 11:17:25 2008 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (c a kling) Date: Fri Dec 26 11:17:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas References: <437B0CB2-D304-11DD-B533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <06FDEF270C8C4AAEADF75DB1A20DE4C7@gail7diqufk9xy> thank you and may I return the wish. G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas > As Christmas draws to an end I wish all of you a Merry Christmas. > > Please share my joy as I celebrate the birth of Jesus, even if you do not > believe. Happiness is contagious, and we can all use some of it in these > troubled times. > > One of my daughters put labeled mineral and fossil specimens into my > stocking, that was hung by the fireplace with care. A thoughtful gift of > love is always appreciated. > > In this season of joy and giving I hope you took the opportunity to make > others happy, and received more than you gave in return. > > Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Sat Dec 27 13:36:33 2008 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Sat Dec 27 13:36:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas References: <437B0CB2-D304-11DD-B533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <06FDEF270C8C4AAEADF75DB1A20DE4C7@gail7diqufk9xy> Message-ID: <386988.82601.qm@web57708.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Amen and well said Kreigh. Merry Christmas to you and yours! ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: c a kling To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:17:25 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas thank you and may I return the wish. G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Merry Christmas > As Christmas draws to an end I wish all of you a Merry Christmas. > > Please share my joy as I celebrate the birth of Jesus, even if you do not believe. Happiness is contagious, and we can all use some of it in these troubled times. > > One of my daughters put labeled mineral and fossil specimens into my stocking, that was hung by the fireplace with care. A thoughtful gift of love is always appreciated. > > In this season of joy and giving I hope you took the opportunity to make others happy, and received more than you gave in return. > > Kreigh > > > -- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Sun Dec 28 12:04:31 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:04:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... Message-ID: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> Gang, if you look at this photo, can you figure out what's special about this geological curiosity? http://silgro.com/photos/08_raw/Mystery.htm (267 Kb) I took this picture Christmas Eve (Dec 24) late in the day. (Sorry it's not better quality, but good enough.) To not keep you in suspense, I'll send another email shortly with the answer. But first, here are some hints: ... This was taken on a hillside which is a roadcut. ... The location is southern Colorado. ... More specifically, this is on the east side of Interstate 25 at about mile 8.5 (just north of the New Mexico border). ... The age of the layers shown here is 65.5 MY +/- 0.3 (best I can find with some web searching). Cheers, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Sun Dec 28 12:23:28 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:23:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <20081228202328.68AB51CC42@io.frii.com> OK, whether or not you figured it out on your own, here's the answer, and some related information. First look at this annotated photo: http://silgro.com/photos/081221-24_KTboundaryLosAlamos/1224E5_RockLayersCloseupMarked.htm This is one of the few places where the K/T (Cretaceous/Tertiary) boundary is plainly visible to the naked eye. The 2 cm thick white layer is the rapid fallout from the Chicxulub/Yucatan impactor, a kaolinitic clay rich in microtektites, acid-leached from the sulfuric acid rain that fell after the event, preserved in an underwater environment, if I understand right. Just above that is a 1 cm thick layer of crumbly shale that fell more slowly, where the 56 ng/g iridium enrichment occurs, along with shocked quartz. Above that is poor grade, blocky, lignite (coal) from the "fern spike" that ensued. AND, this site is open to the public (along a dead-end I25 frontage road), easily accessible, and sample collecting is allowed. I've dropped by a few times over the years (it's about 260 miles from home), and even checked with the state highway department a while ago; they said: "Have fun, let us know if you need us to clean up after you" (!) The Smithsonian took a 2.5 ton chunk out of this hillside over 20 years ago. If you find this subject interesting and want to see more images, navigate up to the index page, etc, from the photo above. If you paste this location into Google maps, you can see the site from above, also "street views": 37.09914 -104.52092 (Note, GPS datum = WGS84, same as Google.) I didn't think to web-search about this site before my recent drive-by, but afterwards I found some cool info: - http://esp.cr.usgs.gov/info/kt/stop2b.html Part of a USGS driving tour of K/T sites in the Raton Basin, very interesting! - http://www.scn.org/~bh162/k-t_boundary.html Discussion of the boundary and impact beds, etc, in the Hell Creek fm, apparently north of here in Montana/etc. - http://geoweb.princeton.edu/people/keller/0400396101v1.pdf A paper from 2003 indicating evidence that the Chicxulub/Yucatan crater might precede the boundary by 300K years; but apparently debatable. In a past visit I tried to collect an intact vertical column sample through the boundary, and found it nearly impossible because the stuff is just so crumbly -- below, through the clay, and above. If you dig into the hillside a ways, it's more solid, but then you might need a diamond chainsaw to cut out a cube, and it would still be extremely fragile. When I first saw the site, you could trace a white band a long ways across the roadcut. Now it's invisible, but it's easy to dig into the hill a few inches to reveal what you see in these photos. However, you must know the level at which to dig! So if you go there, pay close attention to the various photos. I was surprised last week to see NO evidence that anyone had done any digging here for years. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Dec 28 12:33:11 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:33:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> References: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <8CB3742A2E6B0FA-F28-6AC@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> It is the K-T boundry, dave -----Original Message----- From: Alan Silverstein To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 3:04 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... Gang, if you look at this photo, can you figure out what's special about this geological curiosity? http://silgro.com/photos/08_raw/Mystery.htm (267 Kb) I took this picture Christmas Eve (Dec 24) late in the day. (Sorry it's not better quality, but good enough.) To not keep you in suspense, I'll send another email shortly with the answer. But first, here are some hints: ... This was taken on a hillside which is a roadcut. ... The location is southern Colorado. ... More specifically, this is on the east side of Interstate 25 at about mile 8.5 (just north of the New Mexico border). ... The age of the layers shown here is 65.5 MY +/- 0.3 (best I can find with some web searching). Cheers, Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Dec 28 12:38:15 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:38:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <8CB3742A2E6B0FA-F28-6AC@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> References: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> <8CB3742A2E6B0FA-F28-6AC@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3743581E2DAE-F28-6C8@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Alan, No fair, your answered too soon. I have always wanted to collect a piece of it and have that almost exact picture, burned in my memory, dave -----Original Message----- From: betdav97@aol.com To: ajs@frii.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... It is the K-T boundry, dave -----Original Message----- From: Alan Silverstein To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 3:04 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... Gang, if you look at this photo, can you figure out what's special about this geological curiosity? http://silgro.com/photos/08_raw/Mystery.htm (267 Kb) I took this picture Christmas Eve (Dec 24) late in the day. (Sorry it's not better quality, but good enough.) To not keep you in suspense, I'll send another email shortly with the answer. But first, here are some hints: ... This was taken on a hillside which is a roadcut. ... The location is southern Colorado. ... More specifically, this is on the east side of Interstate 25 at about mile 8.5 (just north of the New Mexico border). ... The age of the layers shown here is 65.5 MY +/- 0.3 (best I can find with some web searching). Cheers, Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 12:53:10 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sun Dec 28 12:53:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] A HUGE thanks to all my new friends ... Message-ID: <831c9ad10812281253s297bec1ne02cbe4fb90f334a@mail.gmail.com> And to all who've perused, lusted over and bid on our latest eBay halite auctions! ALL 3 items sold, and I'll be posting more items tonight. (My apologies for the delay, it's been a hectic Holiday!) I still have over 100 lovely halite specimens, and will be making a major project of getting their pics on my Blog (R&R Rockhound ) and onto a gallery of some kind. In addition, I'll be posting pics of creations made from Central California materials, lovingly cut and shaped using my new diamond band saw and carving wheels!! My honey got them for me for X-mas, and I can't wait to get going! *GRIN!* I hope you all got what you wanted for the Holiday of your choice, and that the new year will bring many lovely rocks, fossils, minerals or whatever your collecting desire might be to you all! Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties Fresno, California, U.S.A. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 13:09:32 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sun Dec 28 13:09:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <8CB3743581E2DAE-F28-6C8@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> References: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> <8CB3742A2E6B0FA-F28-6AC@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3743581E2DAE-F28-6C8@WEBMAIL-DC16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812281309v5ac9668aocdc8b0c66c6f2e90@mail.gmail.com> Hey Alan! Thanks for the great pics! "Cowboy" geologists like myself rely on educators like yourself. You make it possible for us to look at a roadcut, and have something more to say than just "Pretty, pretty!" *grin!* Please continue, sir! Be Well! Kris Lapidary, Specialties On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 12:38 PM, wrote: > Alan, > No fair, your answered too soon. I have always wanted > to collect a piece of it and have that almost exact picture, > burned in my memory, > dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: betdav97@aol.com > To: ajs@frii.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 3:33 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... > > > > It is the K-T boundry, > dave > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Silverstein > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 3:04 pm > Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... > > > > Gang, if you look at this photo, can you figure out what's special about > this geological curiosity? > > http://silgro.com/photos/08_raw/Mystery.htm (267 Kb) > > I took this picture Christmas Eve (Dec 24) late in the day. (Sorry it's > not better quality, but good enough.) > > To not keep you in suspense, I'll send another email shortly with the > answer. But first, here are some hints: > > ... > > This was taken on a hillside which is a roadcut. > > ... > > The location is southern Colorado. > > ... > > More specifically, this is on the east side of Interstate 25 at about > mile 8.5 (just north of the New Mexico border). > > ... > > The age of the layers shown here is 65.5 MY +/- 0.3 (best I can find > with some web searching). > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Dec 28 13:23:30 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 28 13:23:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... Message-ID: Cool that you posted that photo, Alan, and a good description to go with it. I assume you just took this photo fairly recently (you didn't exactly say). I've been to that roadcut a number of times over the years, and as you say, the white fallout layer at one time was visible even as one drove by on the highway--when it had been recently trenched and excavated--but all is covered now by crumbling of the shale, and I was not at all sure how easy it would be to dig away and re-expose it--glad to hear that it's still not too difficult to do so. I myself haven't been there in quite a few years now--probably a dozen or more. But each time I drive by on I-25, it's a game to try to be sure I recognize the right roadcut where this is located. Best wishes to all for a great New Year! (and lots of good rock hunting, or finding, or looking, or buying, or cutting & polishing, or selling, or whatever each of you do most! Pete **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Dec 28 15:59:17 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Dec 28 15:59:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <20081228200431.5E7801CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <899C4BB6-D53B-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Alan, It is the K/T Boundary. You can see another picture of the spot on my field trip page at http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/FieldTrips.shtml if you scroll almost all the way to the bottom (or do a Find for 'boundary'). Kreigh On Sunday, Dec 28, 2008, at 15:04 America/Detroit, Alan Silverstein wrote: > Gang, if you look at this photo, can you figure out what's special > about > this geological curiosity? > > http://silgro.com/photos/08_raw/Mystery.htm (267 Kb) > > I took this picture Christmas Eve (Dec 24) late in the day. (Sorry > it's > not better quality, but good enough.) > > To not keep you in suspense, I'll send another email shortly with the > answer. But first, here are some hints: > > ... > > This was taken on a hillside which is a roadcut. > > ... > > The location is southern Colorado. > > ... > > More specifically, this is on the east side of Interstate 25 at about > mile 8.5 (just north of the New Mexico border). > > ... > > The age of the layers shown here is 65.5 MY +/- 0.3 (best I can find > with some web searching). > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Dec 29 07:56:04 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 29 07:56:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] What does the fossil record tell us about when true birds appeared? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB37E516E0A86B-4EC-555@WEBMAIL-MB17.sysops.aol.com> Kreigh, I posted your question on the Paleolist forum and only one person, Donald Kenny, opted for an answer and it follows: I'm no expert on DNA analysis, but I did look at it superficially a decade or so ago. My conclusion: The claim that DNA analysis is pretty good about the sequence of past events is probably correct. But molecular clocks (when things changed) simply don't work very well (yet). Probably they have improved, but given a discrepancy between DNA analysis and the fossil record, I'd go with the fossils. Donald Kenny From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Dec 29 11:25:52 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:26:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The "Bahia Emerald" specimen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB380263C5639D-F30-3A@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> Hi, Rockhounds folks, Some of you have probably seen the news stories about the so-called "Bahia emerald", which was either stolen or not from a Los Angeles warehouse and is currently in custody of the LAPD while they decide who owns it.? Here's a link to a CNN story: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/27/giant.emerald/index.html The news stories (written by folks who don't know much about gems) keep referring to it by such as "an 850-pound emerald" and "...the stone had been appraised at $370 million", but the picture on this story shows it is not "an emerald" but a matrix specimen with a number of emerald crystals sticking up out of the large rock matrix, and which do not necessarily appear to be of gem quality. Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Dec 29 11:39:44 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:39:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081229193944.2EBDA1CC42@io.frii.com> Pete et al, > But each time I drive by on I-25, it's a game to try to be sure I > recognize the right roadcut where this is located. One thing I forgot to mention, which might not be obvious looking at maps, is that you should depart I25 at exit 11 (not 8), east to the frontage road, then south a bit more than 2 miles, to the roadcut. No connection from exit 8. Probably the USGS guided-tour webpages explain this. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Mon Dec 29 11:43:10 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:43:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo... In-Reply-To: <899C4BB6-D53B-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20081229194310.86D8C1CC42@io.frii.com> Kreigh, > You can see another picture of the spot on my field trip page at > http://tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/FieldTrips.shtml if you scroll > almost all the way to the bottom (or do a Find for 'boundary'). Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that -- it was 12 years ago -- and now I realize the iridium spike occurs in the shaley material ("fireball/impact layer") just above the clayey material ("boundary claystone layer"). I don't know why the iridium didn't settle out faster. Maybe the first wave was terrestrial goop, and most of the asteroid was vaporized more finely? Alan From bj9709 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 29 11:59:00 2008 From: bj9709 at yahoo.com (Brett Allen Johnson) Date: Mon Dec 29 11:59:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: <200812290200.mBT20BtM015390@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <111672.82566.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Alan, thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the photo and the information. This got me to thinking (I know, Bad Habit). Would anyone in the Group know of or have ideas on how to get a sample (preferably a core sample) of the KT Boundary? I would love to have one or two in my collection, especially next to my dino rib. Respond to the Group with your thoughts and ideas. Thanks, Brett --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Dec 29 12:14:47 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Dec 29 12:14:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: <111672.82566.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081229201447.3FE9E1CC42@io.frii.com> > Would anyone in the Group know of or have ideas on how to get a sample > (preferably a core sample) of the KT Boundary? I've wondered that myself, I would like that too. Well what might not be apparent from the images is that there's a flat area (bench) between the levels of the roadcut. The K/T line is about 3-4' down from this point, just a guess, I didn't measure, but when standing on the loose hillside at about eye-level with the bench, the line was about at my knee level. The bench is 10-15' deep I would guess... Wide enough for elk to stroll along it, judging from the tracks in the snow, and the droppings. So there's room up there to operate a gas-powered core drilling machine, and it's not far down to paydirt either. I know that major core drilling is done "off-grid", gas/diesel-powered, but how small a rig exists for this purpose? Is there something 1-2 people could carry up the hill? Can it be rented? :-) Also, talking with a geologist friend who reads core samples (among other tasks) for a living, I learned that quite often there are missing sections that just don't come to the surface intact because they are so "incompetent". On the other hand, I know that the "Denver Basin Project" a few years ago reported on long stretches of sand or pebbles, so there must be some method for coring/reading loose material too. And I bet there are some readers here who can educate us about this. :-) On my previous visit years ago I think I brought a length of 3/4" diameter copper tubing sharpened on one end, which I've used successfully to core apples. :-) I played with exposing a flat surface several inches up (above the lignite) and trying to get a core sample, but of course without grinding through it, it was hopeless. The material is brittle. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Dec 29 12:18:00 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 29 12:18:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: <111672.82566.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB3809ADF6EC0F-F30-2EF@WEBMAIL-MY30.sysops.aol.com> I rather doubt that any core samples of it exist, or at least, none that are accessible to a collector.? Any cores through the boundary layer are probably crumbly and friable and would have to be stabilized with epoxy or whatever, and are probably "one-of-a-kind" obtained by research drilling. I think the best one can expect to do, is get a sample of the white, kaolinite-rich fallout layer such as Alan describes and showed in his photos. best, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Brett Allen Johnson To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:59 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary Alan, thanks for sharing. Enjoyed the photo and the information. This got me to thinking (I know, Bad Habit). Would anyone in the Group know of or have ideas on how to get a sample (preferably a core sample) of the KT Boundary? I would love to have one or two in my collection, especially next to my dino rib. Respond to the Group with your thoughts and ideas. Thanks, Brett --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 12:22:46 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Dec 29 12:22:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: <20081229201447.3FE9E1CC42@io.frii.com> References: <111672.82566.qm@web37904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20081229201447.3FE9E1CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: I thought that you sent me a piece of this layer Alan, must have been someone else. I have about a 10 gram sample of it in a plastic ziplock, I thought it came near Raton but I won't swear to it. It's crumbly clay material that I never took out of the bag since I thought it would disintegrate. BK On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 15:14, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > Would anyone in the Group know of or have ideas on how to get a sample > > (preferably a core sample) of the KT Boundary? > > I've wondered that myself, I would like that too. Well what might not > be apparent from the images is that there's a flat area (bench) between > the levels of the roadcut. The K/T line is about 3-4' down from this > point, just a guess, I didn't measure, but when standing on the loose > hillside at about eye-level with the bench, the line was about at my > knee level. The bench is 10-15' deep I would guess... Wide enough for > elk to stroll along it, judging from the tracks in the snow, and the > droppings. > > So there's room up there to operate a gas-powered core drilling machine, > and it's not far down to paydirt either. I know that major core > drilling is done "off-grid", gas/diesel-powered, but how small a rig > exists for this purpose? Is there something 1-2 people could carry up > the hill? Can it be rented? :-) > > Also, talking with a geologist friend who reads core samples (among > other tasks) for a living, I learned that quite often there are missing > sections that just don't come to the surface intact because they are so > "incompetent". On the other hand, I know that the "Denver Basin > Project" a few years ago reported on long stretches of sand or pebbles, > so there must be some method for coring/reading loose material too. > > And I bet there are some readers here who can educate us about this. :-) > > On my previous visit years ago I think I brought a length of 3/4" > diameter copper tubing sharpened on one end, which I've used > successfully to core apples. :-) I played with exposing a flat surface > several inches up (above the lignite) and trying to get a core sample, > but of course without grinding through it, it was hopeless. The material > is brittle. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Dec 29 12:32:01 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Dec 29 12:32:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081229203201.6F6B71CC42@io.frii.com> Bryan et al, > I thought that you sent me a piece of this layer Alan, must have been > someone else. I have about a 10 gram sample of it in a plastic > ziplock, I thought it came near Raton but I won't swear to it. It might have been me, I did mail samples to some people in the past, but I would have included a label in or attached to the bag... > It's crumbly clay material that I never took out of the bag since I > thought it would disintegrate. Every time I've dug there, it was damp a few inches into the hillside. When the clay dries out it gets lighter in color, but also a lot more crumbly, although not as friable as an unconsolidated sandstone. By the way, as to location, note from some of the other photos in my album (see previous URL) that there's now a cell phone tower, a major landmark, just south of the roadcut. Also, thanks for the thanks, to whomever called me an "educator" (blush). I'm really a software engineer and completely an amateur about anything geological, I'm just sharing the fun best I can. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 18:38:56 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Mon Dec 29 18:39:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: More great halite auctions! Message-ID: <831c9ad10812291838l608b6e2ava019c71720c05a76@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! A big thanks to all who've gone to look at my halite auctions on eBay, and especially to those who've purchased them! I've posted 6 more pieces, starting at US $9.99, with free shipping! That's right, the winning auction bid is the price that you pay, no matter where in the world you live! Halite, Hoppered Pink, Trona. LOW RESERVE&FREE SHIPPING Halite, Transparent Pink Cubic LOW RESERVE & FREE SHIP! Halite,Trona, INTENSE FUCHSIA! LOW RESERVE, FREE SHIP!! Halite, "PEARL" Hoppered Cubes, LOW RESERVE, FREE SHIP! Halite, "Glassy" Cubes, Trona LOW RESERVE, FREE SHIP! Halite,Trona, INTENSE FUCHSIA! LOW RESERVE, FREE SHIP!!Sorry about the pic on this one, it's not one of my best! I'll also be posting additional pics (better ones, I hope) and tips on collecting, preparing, displaying and, most crucially, preserving your lovely halite specimens. In addition, I'll finally have some hanksite ready by the end of the week. I'll let you know when I put those online! Be Well, y'all! Kris Lapidary Specialties Fresno, California, U.S.A. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 31 04:00:14 2008 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Dec 31 04:00:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] emerald Message-ID: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Dear List: For those who have bought or collected raw emeralds, you know that the Bahia Brazilian material comes in by the barrel load, literally. Matrix pieces, like that in the photo, are sold by the pound. At the Grassy Creek, NC show (adjacent to the Spruce Pine show), emeralds were selling for $15/lb, and the next year the price dropped to $8/lb. The stones themselves are not what commands any money, but the "added value" of the specimens are due to the tedious and detailed task of cleaning the schist and quartzite away from the crystals, without snapping the emeralds across the length. In general, the quality of the stones themselves rank around a category No 2.5-3. Most are semi transparent to opaque, the colors are very zoned, ranging from bottle green, to yellow, white or grey, and as one can discern from the picture in the bottom of the LA article, are shot thru with biotite schist inclusions. The positive aspect of this material is that ithe individual crystals tend to be large and showy. They can be cut across the matrix, or the individual crystal, for hexagons to be used for attractive pieces of jewelry. The cost of "sacrificing" a stone is relatively painless, i.e. inexpensive. In terms of the value of millions being assigned to this piece, I guess anything is possible on eBay. To me, this amount defies logic, since we are not talking Colombian emeralds, nor are Bahia emeralds difficult to obtain, even in large matrix pieces.But, as we have seen again and again, the general public really knows very little about the processing, marketing and quality of gemstones. EJW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 10:35:32 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 31 10:35:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone Message-ID: About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From steve at lubbs.net Wed Dec 31 11:05:23 2008 From: steve at lubbs.net (Steve) Date: Wed Dec 31 11:05:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495BC273.1060601@lubbs.net> Hi BK, As I read the info at the link provided, most of the activity is at a depth of about 2 km. The surface location is around 60 km ESE of West Yellowstone. Still interesting though. I think I read recently that the area is starting to subside after years of rising. That may account for the many shallow quakes. Regards, Steve J Bryan Kramer wrote: > About 60 km down: > > > > I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's > a bit early to worry about that. > > BK > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 12:14:36 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Dec 31 12:15:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 Message-ID: Happy last Day of 2008! The snow is falling here in Massachusetts again so its a good time to think back to the collecting that I was able to do this past year. I was fortunate enough to collect in CA, MT, KY, IN, OH, CT, NH, ME and MA this year. Two trips really stand out as being extra special. A) The first was a trip last July to the Snowbird Mine near the Montana/Idaho border that I made with Lanny Ream while I was out in Idaho on business. Although the Snowbird Mine was mined for fluorite it is arguably the best locality in the US to collect decent sized crystals of parisite-(Ce). It also happens to offer some of the most spectacular views of any locality I have visited. The trip was made more interesting by the fact that we had to shovel snow and clear some small trees off the forest service road leading to the mine to get as close as possible to the mine road. It was 12 July and we were clearly the first ones to drive in. I enjoyed the trip so much that I went back again in August on my next trip out there. I now just may have the best self-collected parisite-(Ce) crystals of anyone in New England although Lanny and others more local to the site certainly have better ones than those I found. I have a powerpoint presentation of pictures that I took up on my club's website for anyone who is interested in seeing what the geology and scenery is like up there. The URL is http://www.bostonmineralclub.org/docs/2008-snowbird/page-01.htm B) The second trip was the Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip that I led to the Eureka Mine in Marion, KY last October. This was without a doubt the most successful collecting trip of the 5 times that I have been to Marion, KY and may well rank as the most successful BMC collecting trip ever. We devoted four days of collecting to a fresh exposure of ledge that we paid to have dug by a track hoe that Bill Frazer brought in for us. We also used a gasoline-powered generator & electric pump to keep the water out of our pit which was 6 feet below the level of Hurricane Creek just 3 feet away and used a 14" diamond blade saw to help work some of the pockets. It was wet dirty work but the 15 people that attended this trip all went home very satisfied with the results. On Monday, 13 October, we had our greatest surprise. I had run a saw cut along the top of some hard ledge so that we could work our way down to some of the exposed fluorite pockets below. Ed Norton began working the cut and broke off a large chunk of of ledge that exposed what we now call the "Lucky 13" pocket. The first indication that this was no ordinary pocket was the ~5" sharp, lustrous, doubly-terminated calcite floater that lay loose in the pocket (think Elmwood quality). Still attached to the wall was the entire back of the pocket containing four other large calcite crystals. I carefully ran multiple saw cuts around each edge of the pocket and Ed began even more carefully working the perimeter cuts to try to extract the pocket intact. After a lot of hard work he extracted a roughly 12" x 15" slab with 4 intact calcite crystals. Both Bill Frazer and a local geologist indicated that these are the finest calcite crystals ever collected from Crittenton County. Bret Hume of Pittsburgh took home the calcite floater but Ed Norton got the pocket in our split of the specimens and he won first place for best fieldtrip specimen at the annual BMC specimen competition last November. We also worked numerous fluorite pockets and extracted a number of fantastic specimens. My best fluorite specimen (a 6" fluorite cluster featuring one 4" stepped cube crystal also took first place in the best self-collected specimen from the current year. As great as it was to bring home some good specimens, the best reward for me was the thrill of seeing the pockets exposed and working with a good group of people to extract the crystals from them. While we were there we also did a night fluorescent dig at the Columbia mine and it too was also a success. I have a 5 gal bucket full of brightly fluorescent rocks from this dig, including some with 4 colors on a single specimen. This is wonderful fluorescent material and I encourage any of you who collect fluorescent minerals to consider a trip there. If you are interested in either fluorite collecting or the fluorescent dig, contact the Ben Clement Mineral Museum in Marion KY to arrange a collecting trip for your club. The fees from these trips help to keep this struggling museum alive. On the way home my wife and I also did some geode collecting in Indiana and some fossil collecting at a state park in Ohio. At the famous Harrodsburg roadcut on state road 37 in Indiana we stopped so that I could climb up to a productive geode zone that I had worked last year. I spent about 30 minutes doing some hard work with hammer and chisel to free a 6" geode from the hard Indiana limestone. Meanwhile my wife looked around the base of the roadcut and picked up a chunk of rock that had fallen off at some point in time. The rock was rounded on one end and she brought it to me to see if it was a geode. Well it was indeed a geode; a 6" geode with a crack already started. It took only one hammer blow to split it open to expose a very nice quartz crystal interior with a few nicely placed cream-colored dolomite crystals providing an aesthetic accent. I had worked hard for 30 minutes to get my geode and she picked hers up off the ground! By the way, her geode won first place in the self-collected, non-New England category at the BMC specimen competition. Well those are my storied from 2008. Please share yours as well!!! best wishes for a safe and happy 2009, May all of your collecting trips be successful with your crystal specimens terminated & gemmy! Nate Martin Lexington, MA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 31 12:49:40 2008 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Wed Dec 31 12:50:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: Message-ID: <003001c96b89$4d9d5d20$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Thanks for teh further information. I heard something about it as I woke up yesterday or today and thought about the supervolcano and didn't hear anything more. They thought we'd rather have more ad nauseum on this week's tabloid news and tabloid politics out of Illinois. It looks like the area of the earth quakes is the dome of the supervolcano. Roughly. I haven't looked at the map of the supervolcano in a couple of years, but I remember something about it changing the tilt of the lake. So clearly the area of earthquakes atleast overlaps with the caldera. I wonder what's up with that? Here's my catastrophic earthquakes and volcanoes page. I last worked on it a couple of years ago. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html My interest started with wondering why catastrophic earthquakes adn volcanoes usually hit Indonesia. http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 13:05:41 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 31 13:06:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <495BC273.1060601@lubbs.net> References: <495BC273.1060601@lubbs.net> Message-ID: LOL, you are correct. The columns don't line up with the headings on my screen. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 14:05, Steve wrote: > Hi BK, > As I read the info at the link provided, most of the activity is at a depth > of about 2 km. The surface location is around 60 km ESE of West > Yellowstone. Still interesting though. I think I read recently that the area > is starting to subside after years of rising. That may account for the many > shallow quakes. > > Regards, > Steve > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> About 60 km down: >> >> > > >> >> I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but >> it's >> a bit early to worry about that. >> >> BK >> >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 31 13:08:05 2008 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Wed Dec 31 13:08:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: Message-ID: <003601c96b8b$e03efba0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> I just updated my web page. The post I made five or ten minutes ago has not appeared yet. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html I misunderstood the map. The red line shows where the caldera is. I'm astounded they pointed that out. The quakes are all within the caldera, but they are pretty much around the northern end of teh lake. I vaguely remember something about that point rising relatively quicly and that being what geologists first noticed. I also have history of the geology of that hot spot and its eruptions on my web page. It is a hot spot in the earth's crust, and the tectonic plate moves relative to the hot spot over time, or something, causing a moving trail of supervolcano eruptions. An area where there was previously that particular sort of volcanic eruption is very vulnerable to a particularly violent eruption next time because of the structure of a caldera and its hard volcanic covering, but the hot spot and the danger site could have moved slightly. Doesn't look like it moved out of the woods. It matters if the earthquakes corresponded to the land rising or falling. If falling, the volcano could have found a way to drain. If rising, then pressure is building up. But try to tell that to a scientist. "It may fall again." Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 31 13:16:12 2008 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Wed Dec 31 13:16:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: Message-ID: <003a01c96b8d$02793b30$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Wonder where are my posts - not here. Anyhow, you might want to hold off looking at my web site, because some of teh links don't work, and I'm fixing them. I also ahve a couple of new good ones to add. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 15:35:09 2008 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Dec 31 15:35:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] emerald In-Reply-To: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10812311535v2f82b0f4r872c328d78cd0bbd@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! E.J., thanks for the great info. As we were taught in sales training, what you're selling may be priced at a certain level, but it's actually worth what someone's willing to pay for it. In light of your astute information, it would seem that the "appraised valuation" may have been $375 million, but the true value (i.e. what someone's willing to pay) has yet to be established, since the "Emerald" didn't sell on eBay. My fear is that the Court will decide that the "valuation" is valid, and force payment of "damages" for the failure to find a buyer who is willing to pay what the "owners" feel the piece is worth.(Whew! Say THAT 3 times fast!) However, it seems more likely that the Court will actually sort out this confusing matter, and urge those involved to "wake up and smell the coffee." Seeing this sort of blatantly greedy activity makes me queasy. This is the "ultimate nightmare" for a dealer, to find that the "owner" of an item will not accept what the dealer feels is a reasonable offer, and insists that it is the dealers responsibility to "find a buyer at my price." It's what keeps my feet on the ground when I look at what an item is "worth." Thanks, E.J.! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 4:00 AM, wrote: > Dear List: > For those who have bought or collected raw emeralds, you know that the > Bahia Brazilian material comes in by the barrel load, literally. Matrix > pieces, like that in the photo, are sold by the pound. At the Grassy Creek, > NC show (adjacent to the Spruce Pine show), emeralds were selling for > $15/lb, and the next year the price dropped to $8/lb. The stones themselves > are not what commands any money, but the "added value" of the specimens are > due to the tedious and detailed task of cleaning the schist and quartzite > away from the crystals, without snapping the emeralds across the length. > In general, the quality of the stones themselves rank around a category No > 2.5-3. Most are semi transparent to opaque, the colors are very zoned, > ranging from bottle green, to yellow, white or grey, and as one can discern > from the picture in the bottom of the LA article, are shot thru with biotite > schist inclusions. > The positive aspect of this material is that ithe individual crystals tend > to be large and showy. They can be cut across the matrix, or the individual > crystal, for hexagons to be used for attractive pieces of jewelry. The cost > of "sacrificing" a stone is relatively painless, i.e. inexpensive. > In terms of the value of millions being assigned to this piece, I guess > anything is possible on eBay. To me, this amount defies logic, since we are > not talking Colombian emeralds, nor are Bahia emeralds difficult to obtain, > even in large matrix pieces.But, as we have seen again and again, the > general public really knows very little about the processing, marketing and > quality of gemstones. EJW > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > multipart/related > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 31 16:06:05 2008 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Wed Dec 31 16:06:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: Message-ID: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> OK, my site is fixed. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html I bet there are people here who might have an idea what to make of this. I incorporated some maps on my web site. The bulge and the earthquakes are occuring in and immediately around the northern part of the lake. Well, the bulge may be bigger, but taht seems to be where it's gotten attention. One of the maps shows the location of previous lava flows, as indicated by two types of volcanic rock. The danger of a caldera volcano, and the reason why pressure builds up to massive proportions, is typically the layer of hard volcanic rock over teh caldera. Now, I don't know if there is in fact no volcanic rock wehre the lake is. The entire area where teh bulge and the quakes are is within the caldera. Which suggests that it should be covered with volcanic rock. However, if you notice, they are not where the rhyolite is. None of it is where the basalt is; it's as if the most recent and largest eruption didn't do basalt. Comments, anyone? I added some new links to newer technical papers about the caldera and its behavior to my site. (I also added a link to the Wikipedia article and fixed three links to one web site that moved.) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Dec 31 16:57:46 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com) Date: Wed Dec 31 16:57:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] emerald In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10812311535v2f82b0f4r872c328d78cd0bbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> <831c9ad10812311535v2f82b0f4r872c328d78cd0bbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1479CD94010C4621B08D2B1F6ABFD8AE@GenePC> Long ago I learned a valuable lesson, when someone sues you the settlement value is a function of the determination of the suing party and his or her resources. Very quickly one learns that $10,000 in defense of a lawsuit can vaporize very quickly. It's the reason there are so many settlements for ridiculous lawsuits. In this case, one could spend many thousands in defense, before a judge or court ever sees the evidence. A simple discovery process can cost you thousands and can tie up all your time for weeks or longer. Gene Hartstein From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 17:11:07 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 31 17:11:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: Were the Yellowstone flows of the flood basalt type or did it build up an actual large dome and erupt from there? I had the impression that these were fissure type eruptions. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 19:06, Dora Smith wrote: > OK, my site is fixed. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html > > I bet there are people here who might have an idea what to make of this. > > I incorporated some maps on my web site. The bulge and the earthquakes > are occuring in and immediately around the northern part of the lake. > Well, the bulge may be bigger, but taht seems to be where it's gotten > attention. > > One of the maps shows the location of previous lava flows, as indicated by > two types of volcanic rock. > > The danger of a caldera volcano, and the reason why pressure builds up to > massive proportions, is typically the layer of hard volcanic rock over teh > caldera. > > Now, I don't know if there is in fact no volcanic rock wehre the lake is. > The entire area where teh bulge and the quakes are is within the caldera. > Which suggests that it should be covered with volcanic rock. However, if > you notice, they are not where the rhyolite is. > > None of it is where the basalt is; it's as if the most recent and largest > eruption didn't do basalt. > > Comments, anyone? > > I added some new links to newer technical papers about the caldera and its > behavior to my site. (I also added a link to the Wikipedia article and > fixed three links to one web site that moved.) > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > > > About 60 km down: > > > > I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but > it's > a bit early to worry about that. > > BK > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 18:33:10 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Dec 31 18:33:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: I guess I can answer my own question. From the Craters of the Moon site: "A typical eruption along the Great Rift and similar basaltic rift systems in starts with a curtain of very fluid lava shooting up to 1,000 feet (300 m) high along a segment of the rift up to 1 mile (1.6 km) long.[25]As the eruption continues pressure and heat decrease and the chemistry of the lava becomes slightly more silica rich. The curtain of lava responds by breaking apart into separate vents. Various types of volcanos may form at these vents; gas-rich pulverized lava creates cinder cones (such as Inferno Cone ? stop 4) and pasty lava blobs form spatter cones(such as Spatter Cones ? stop 5). [7]Later stages of an eruption push lava streams out through the side or bottom of cinder cones, which usually ends the life of the cinder cone (North Crater, Watchmen, and Sheep Trail Butte are notable exceptions). This will sometimes breach part of the cone and carry it away as large and craggy blocks of cinder (as seen at North Crater Flow ? stop 2 ? and Devils Orchard ? stop 3). Solid crust forms over lava streams and lava tubes (a type of cave) are created when lava vacates its course (examples can be seen at the Cave Area ? stop 7)." " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craters_of_the_Moon_National_Monument_and_Preserve " Actually that site says that Craters has erupted 8 times with 500-3000 year periods between eruptions. The last one was 2000 years ago so they are expecting one within a 100 years. Seems like a long way from the Yellowstone hotspot tho. Unless the magma mass extends that far to the west. I'd guess over a 100 miles. I actually had a personal learning experience at Craters. My room mate and I were in the Navy and got transferred from the Frisco Bay area to Arco/Idaho Falls. The day after we got there we ran out to Craters, it was July the 3rd. We were rockclimbers and wanted to explore some of the lava tubes so we carried our climbing gear into the park. Without encountering a ranger. The temp was about 80 degrees when we got to a lava tube window and roped up. We rappelled down, explored for an hour or so and came out to find it was now about 25 degrees and snowing heavily. Strange pellet like snow too. But we were 40 feet down and the only way back up was up the rope. I used a prussic knot which lets you slide the knot up the rope (when you take your weight off the loop the knot is attached to) but holds firm when you put weight on the loop. That lets you climb up a rope by alternating feet (separate loop and knot for each foot). All was well on the 35 feet of free rope but when the rope got to the last 6 or 8 feet of lip, the rope was forced into the rock by my weight on the rope. My feet were still hanging free and my weight forced my feet out at and angle on the rope. That meant I had to pull the rope off the rock, take weight off one foot and try to slide that loop up the rope while holding it away from the rock face. All this dangling 35 feet up, in the snow (or maybe it was sleet) and freezing too since we just had light clothing on. Things were looking grim, I was going up about an inch at a time (or so it seemed). My climbing buddy was shouting imprecations from below. I was getting very tired and cold. All of a sudden this detached hand grabs me by the collar and pulls me up to the top. It was a ranger and I was rather happy to see him...heh. We got my friend up and were happy to accept the tongue lashing lecture. It was darned stupid. But that was my intro to western mountain weather. I got another lesson on the road thru the park about black ice, later that year in the winter. Oh I bought some Jumars right after that for those of you who have done some climbing. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 20:11, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Were the Yellowstone flows of the flood basalt type or did it build up an > actual large dome and erupt from there? I had the impression that these were > fissure type eruptions. > > BK > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 19:06, Dora Smith wrote: > >> OK, my site is fixed. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html >> >> I bet there are people here who might have an idea what to make of this. >> >> I incorporated some maps on my web site. The bulge and the earthquakes >> are occuring in and immediately around the northern part of the lake. >> Well, the bulge may be bigger, but taht seems to be where it's gotten >> attention. >> >> One of the maps shows the location of previous lava flows, as indicated by >> two types of volcanic rock. >> >> The danger of a caldera volcano, and the reason why pressure builds up to >> massive proportions, is typically the layer of hard volcanic rock over teh >> caldera. >> >> Now, I don't know if there is in fact no volcanic rock wehre the lake is. >> The entire area where teh bulge and the quakes are is within the caldera. >> Which suggests that it should be covered with volcanic rock. However, if >> you notice, they are not where the rhyolite is. >> >> None of it is where the basalt is; it's as if the most recent and largest >> eruption didn't do basalt. >> >> Comments, anyone? >> >> I added some new links to newer technical papers about the caldera and its >> behavior to my site. (I also added a link to the Wikipedia article and >> fixed three links to one web site that moved.) >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >> >> >> About 60 km down: >> >> > > >> >> I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but >> it's >> a bit early to worry about that. >> >> BK >> >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---