From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Mon Sep 1 06:26:31 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Mon Sep 1 06:26:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Rockhounds ]Leaverite - was " My Personal Collection" In-Reply-To: <602573E2-77D2-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <602573E2-77D2-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <53E2C7F2D57C44129DCEF46CC82160BE@ArmandoPC> Good idea. Let start it. To anyone who send me a box of labeled leaverites, I return the equivalent in terms of weight and quality from my place. Armando Afonso Urb. Miraserra - lote 6 7.? dto 8100LOULE PORTUGAL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] My Personal Collection > Hi Larry. > > Did you take over the living room or the basement to make your rock room? > That's pretty impressive. > > I would have liked to get a closer look at the display cases that line the > room. Would you consider replacing the current images with composites made > of close-ups of each case section that I could click on to get a larger > image and see the specimens clearly? A table of pictures would have > basically the same image as the current wall photographs. > > I agree with you about the value of trading. The internet makes it easy. > Your local Leaverite may be fairly common, but take it half way across the > country (or around the world) and it starts to be interesting stuff that > makes nice trades. > > Thanks for sharing! > > Kreigh > > > On Sunday, Aug 31, 2008, at 11:14 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> As an active mineral collector, and like all of us, there is nothing I >> like better to do than to see, and talk about minerals! >> >> Since I have recently made some additions to my personal web site, I >> would like to invite members to see the result of what 50 years of >> digging, buying (on a modest budget), and especially trading of minerals >> can do. I am an advocate of trading, and still exchange by mail and in >> person regularly. I strongly urge all collectors to contact others, and >> take advantage of swapping your extras to others who may not have the >> opportunity to get them otherwise. There are not many swap meets these >> days, but the Internet is a great avenue to explore, and friendly >> collectors all over the world are lurking there. It is easy to exchange >> photos, and with an honest effort, you can easily contact collectors >> anywhere. By doing so, you will not only enhance your own collection, you >> will spread the fascination and enjoyment of minerals to others. >> >> You may also be as lucky as I have been, to gain the friendship of others >> which will enrich your life in many unexpected and serendipitous ways! >> >> Good Collecting............. >> >> Larry Rush >> Guilford, CT >> >> http://MyMinerals.homestead.com/ >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Sep 1 08:13:13 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Sep 1 08:19:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Congratulations, Larry! Message-ID: <930001.30113.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I don't know whether to be more impressed with the rocks themselves or the work which went into the web site!? I too have a lot of rocks, and I've photographed a few of them, so I know how much work it is to get good rock pix.? And building a web site isn't exactly cake either... Thanks for sharing your collection with all of us! I'll close with the exhortation: Keep on Rockin' JR in WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 1 09:39:55 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 1 09:44:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] My Personal Collection In-Reply-To: <602573E2-77D2-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <30AF803E489A48E5B7E2DD2065229AF4@LarryRush> <602573E2-77D2-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00e701c90c51$5dedf550$6401a8c0@okapi> I have fond memories of staying with Larry back in the (I think) late 90's when I was getting out east on a regular basis. If I remember right, he even has a couple of celestites from near Windsor Canada that I traded him! Being in that room was like being in the treasure room of a castle...amazing! GcB From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 1 21:34:39 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Sep 1 21:34:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip Message-ID: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Hi All, It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the following URL and follow the links. http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be able to answer them for a couple of days, though. Regards, Lanny From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Sep 1 21:43:23 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Mon Sep 1 21:49:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <009601c90cb6$6f1e55d0$4d5b0170$@com> Ya but did ya get any of the wily Vaccinium Membranaceum??? I think the bear I saw in 1989 was just below John :D So is that Grandmother Mtn. in the view N from Freezeout? Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny R Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:35 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip Hi All, It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the following URL and follow the links. http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be able to answer them for a couple of days, though. Regards, Lanny -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Sep 1 22:02:59 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Sep 1 22:04:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <000a01c90cb9$2fb4a220$0600a8c0@Montana> "but we waited another 45 minutes hoping John and Julie would be able to make it up" Aww, Jeez, now I feel bad. I tried, I really tried...but this is always my busiest month of the year. I've worked 315 hours in the past four weeks - lol. Maybe next year :) Great pictures and report, Lanny! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip > Hi All, > > It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few problems, > but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial Rockhound's > List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia to Freezeout to > Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the following URL and follow > the links. > > > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html > > or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. > > If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be able > to answer them for a couple of days, though. > > Regards, > > Lanny > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 1 22:53:14 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Sep 1 22:53:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: <009601c90cb6$6f1e55d0$4d5b0170$@com> References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> <009601c90cb6$6f1e55d0$4d5b0170$@com> Message-ID: <0534984D-2D00-4607-9712-8FF54B4D4882@roadrunner.com> Hi Tim, Vaccinium Membranaceum? Perhaps, there was some huckleberry picking and eating going on, but which species is anyone's guess. Not Grandmother Mtn., it's Mark's Butte. Grandmother Mtn. is not along the road, it is out of sight 2 miles beyond (north of) Mark's Butte. We didn't see any bears, actually, except for a deer at camp, we saw no wildlife except for the little critters. Regards, Lanny On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:43 PM, Tim wrote: > Ya but did ya get any of the wily Vaccinium Membranaceum??? I think > the bear > I saw in 1989 was just below John :D So is that Grandmother Mtn. in > the view > N from Freezeout? > > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny R > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:35 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip > > Hi All, > > It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few > problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial > Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia > to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the > following URL and follow the links. > > > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html > > or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. > > If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be > able to answer them for a couple of days, though. > > Regards, > > Lanny > -- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Sep 1 22:57:44 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Sep 1 22:57:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: <000a01c90cb9$2fb4a220$0600a8c0@Montana> References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> <000a01c90cb9$2fb4a220$0600a8c0@Montana> Message-ID: Hi Julie, Don't feel bad, we really did hope you would be able to make it and didn't mind waiting a little extra time just in case. We knew that John knew when we would be leaving and we were gabbing too much and just not getting going very fast. Maybe next year we'll listen to Hilmar's "request" and go to Nevada or Topaz Mtn., Utah or... . Regards, Lanny On Sep 1, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > "but we waited another 45 minutes hoping John and Julie would be > able to make it up" > > Aww, Jeez, now I feel bad. I tried, I really tried...but this is > always my busiest month of the year. I've worked 315 hours in the > past four weeks - lol. > > Maybe next year :) > > Great pictures and report, Lanny! > > Julie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip > > >> Hi All, >> >> It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few >> problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent >> unofficial Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern >> Idaho: Clarkia to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and >> almandine. Use the following URL and follow the links. >> >> >> http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html >> >> or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. >> >> If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't >> be able to answer them for a couple of days, though. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Sep 1 23:43:43 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Sep 1 23:44:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com><000a01c90cb9$2fb4a220$0600a8c0@Montana> Message-ID: <001301c90cc7$41fc9fb0$0600a8c0@Montana> Eh, it still about killed me. I'd *prearranged* that time. Just didn't work out, the way. John brought back treasures, though, and pictures and stories and...GPS coordinates ;-) The website I'm working on goes live tomorrow - lol. I'll get there :) Utah, Nevada...or even right here again. I'm game, as long as it's not in August! lol Again, great pictures - not being there, but I could picture the trip with your pics and narrative. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip > Hi Julie, > > Don't feel bad, we really did hope you would be able to make it and > didn't mind waiting a little extra time just in case. We knew that John > knew when we would be leaving and we were gabbing too much and just not > getting going very fast. > > Maybe next year we'll listen to Hilmar's "request" and go to Nevada or > Topaz Mtn., Utah or... . > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > On Sep 1, 2008, at 10:02 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > >> "but we waited another 45 minutes hoping John and Julie would be able to >> make it up" >> >> Aww, Jeez, now I feel bad. I tried, I really tried...but this is always >> my busiest month of the year. I've worked 315 hours in the past four >> weeks - lol. >> >> Maybe next year :) >> >> Great pictures and report, Lanny! >> >> Julie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip >> >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few >>> problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial >>> Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia >>> to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the >>> following URL and follow the links. >>> >>> >>> http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html >>> >>> or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. >>> >>> If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be >>> able to answer them for a couple of days, though. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Lanny >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 2 04:07:28 2008 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Tue Sep 2 04:09:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Message-ID: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> dear List: I have been trading for a few years now, with list and non list members. The exchanges have been mutually beneficial, for the most part, with the exception of one or two persons who have not sent me anything back(!!!), which is rather discouraging, and the subsequent subject of very uncharitable thoughts. However, the exchanges have been on the basis of weight for weight, and comparable quality for comparable quality. Axel Emmermann and I did an Outstanding exchange, whereby both of us were extremely satisfied (if you do not mind my speaking for you, Alex.) The point is that the idea is to not just get rid of a bunch of yard junk, or to foist off some potential driveway cover onto someone else's driveway, but to consider a fair trade. I am personally in the WNC mining district, where within one hundred miles of my residence are many mine dumps and National Forest sites open. Since we do not have the BLM regulations that is present in the western part of the country, small collecting is allowed. However, I would not send anyone a box of shattered beryl or feldspar, on the basis of their being inacessible to Europeans, for example. I would send good samples, or if possible, whatever is requested. I have found, for the most part, fellow collectors respect the degree of quality that they themselves would like to have. The next point is shipping: Here in the US, one can send a Flat Rate Box (the size has diminished) for around $20.00. To Europe, it is $27.00 for up to 20 lbs, and International is around $47.00, I beleive. However, rates are going up. When Axel and I exchanged minerals, I sent around 60 lbs, which cost Axel the equivalent in shipping for 20 kgs. So, for the cost. lets not send low level pieces. By the way, I'm open to any suggestions as to trade. Please contact me at my e-mail address. Thanks, Ed Wagner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From vewalden at aol.com Tue Sep 2 06:12:55 2008 From: vewalden at aol.com (vewalden@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 06:16:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Change of Address Message-ID: <8CADB14BF6DD223-11CC-10D90@WEBMAIL-NH09.sysops.aol.com> Could you change my email address from vewalden@aol.com to vewalden3@bellsouth.net Thank you Virgil Walden From steveg44 at comcast.net Tue Sep 2 08:01:24 2008 From: steveg44 at comcast.net (Steve G) Date: Tue Sep 2 08:01:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removes this email address Message-ID: <001501c90d0c$c4e83250$6500a8c0@steve55609fd9c> I have been trying for months to get my email off your list-even went to the recommended webpage. No luck. It would be nice if you were kind enough to remove my email addy thank you --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Sep 2 08:52:27 2008 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Sep 2 08:52:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removes this email address References: <001501c90d0c$c4e83250$6500a8c0@steve55609fd9c> Message-ID: <001601c90d13$e7069dc0$6500a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Steve, With all due respect, this is not rocket science. Click on the link below that says "subscription services". When the page opens, scroll down to the end of the page and you'll see instructions for "unsubscribe". Erich kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve G To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Removes this email address I have been trying for months to get my email off your list-even went to the recommended webpage. No luck. It would be nice if you were kind enough to remove my email addy thank you --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Sep 2 11:11:55 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 11:26:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Hi Ed, Flat rate boxes are much lower than $20, unless you are adding in "handling" as part of the bill. In my neck of the woods flat rate goes from $8 some thing to $10 some thing. Also now there are three sizes to chose from, the two original ones and a larger one. I've been taken also on trades, folks should send what is useful not yard rocks or serious leaverite. After all, there is leaverite that is good, but not useful to you and real leaverite which is garbage. In WV much of the geology is leaverite unless you include our fossils. But even here you can find something in the most unlikely places, like the marcasite I found this summer before my accident. Round spheres of marcasite up to bowling ball size. I kept some of the small ones and they are still shiny. Guess some breakdown of marcasite is put off if they aren't exposed to the elements too long. Oh well, I'm rambling, dave -----Original Message----- From: edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 7:07 am Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades dear List: I have been trading for a few years now, with list and non list members. The exchanges have been mutually beneficial, for the most part, with the exception of one or two persons who have not sent me anything back(!!!), which is rather discouraging, and the subsequent subject of very uncharitable thoughts. However, the exchanges have been on the basis of weight for weight, and comparable quality for comparable quality. Axel Emmermann and I did an Outstanding exchange, whereby both of us were extremely satisfied (if you do not mind my speaking for you, Alex.) The point is that the idea is to not just get rid of a bunch of yard junk, or to foist off some potential driveway cover onto someone else's driveway, but to consider a fair trade. I am personally in the WNC mining district, where within one hundred miles of my residence are many mine dumps and National Forest sites open. Since we do not have the BLM regulations that is present in the western part of the country, small collecting is allowed. However, I would not send anyone a box of shattered beryl or feldspar, on the basis of their being inacessible to Europeans, for example. I would send good samples, or if possible, whatever is requested. I have found, for the most part, fellow collectors respect the degree of quality that they themselves would like to have. The next point is shipping: Here in the US, one can send a Flat Rate Box (the size has diminished) for around $20.00. To Europe, it is $27.00 for up to 20 lbs, and International is around $47.00, I beleive. However, rates are going up. When Axel and I exchanged minerals, I sent around 60 lbs, which cost Axel the equivalent in shipping for 20 kgs. So, for the cost. lets not send low level pieces. By the way, I'm open to any suggestions as to trade. Please contact me at my e-mail address. Thanks, Ed Wagner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Sep 2 11:40:12 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Sep 2 11:44:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> <8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000201c90d2b$55781e20$00685a60$@com> http://pe.usps.gov/text/Imm/immc2_014.htm 233 Priority Mail International Flat-Rate Boxes 233.1 General All mailable items that may be sent as Priority Mail International, except those items allowed in the Priority Mail International flat-rate envelope, may be sent in Priority Mail flat-rate boxes (see 231). The contents must fit securely and must be entirely confined within the box. The box flaps must be able to close within the prefabricated folds. A flat-rate box may be insured. See 320 and Individual Country Listings for insurance availability, limitations, and coverage. Registered Mail service is not available. 233.2 Prices A Priority Mail International flat-rate box is charged at a flat rate. The price does not depend on the weight of the item. Postage is required for each piece. Exhibit 233.2 lists the prices for Priority Mail International flat-rate boxes. Exhibit 233.2 Priority Mail International - Flat-Rate Boxes International Destination Regular Large Canada & Mexico $23.95 $29.95 All other countries $38.95 $49.95 Note: Indemnity for items mailed in flat-rate boxes are based on the weight and indemnity limits shown in Exhibit 234.4. 233.3 Weight Limit The weight limit for each flat-rate box is 20 pounds. 233.4 Customs Forms Required Each Priority Mail International flat-rate box must bear a properly completed PS Form 2976-A. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 11:12 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Hi Ed, Flat rate boxes are much lower than $20, unless you are adding in "handling" as part of the bill. In my neck of the woods flat rate goes from $8 some thing to $10 some thing. Also now there are three sizes to chose from, the two original ones and a larger one. I've been taken also on trades, folks should send what is useful not yard rocks or serious leaverite. After all, there is leaverite that is good, but not useful to you and real leaverite which is garbage. In WV much of the geology is leaverite unless you include our fossils. But even here you can find something in the most unlikely places, like the marcasite I found this summer before my accident. Round spheres of marcasite up to bowling ball size. I kept some of the small ones and they are still shiny. Guess some breakdown of marcasite is put off if they aren't exposed to the elements too long. Oh well, I'm rambling, dave -----Original Message----- From: edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 7:07 am Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades dear List: I have been trading for a few years now, with list and non list members. The exchanges have been mutually beneficial, for the most part, with the exception of one or two persons who have not sent me anything back(!!!), which is rather discouraging, and the subsequent subject of very uncharitable thoughts. However, the exchanges have been on the basis of weight for weight, and comparable quality for comparable quality. Axel Emmermann and I did an Outstanding exchange, whereby both of us were extremely satisfied (if you do not mind my speaking for you, Alex.) The point is that the idea is to not just get rid of a bunch of yard junk, or to foist off some potential driveway cover onto someone else's driveway, but to consider a fair trade. I am personally in the WNC mining district, where within one hundred miles of my residence are many mine dumps and National Forest sites open. Since we do not have the BLM regulations that is present in the western part of the country, small collecting is allowed. However, I would not send anyone a box of shattered beryl or feldspar, on the basis of their being inacessible to Europeans, for example. I would send good samples, or if possible, whatever is requested. I have found, for the most part, fellow collectors respect the degree of quality that they themselves would like to have. The next point is shipping: Here in the US, one can send a Flat Rate Box (the size has diminished) for around $20.00. To Europe, it is $27.00 for up to 20 lbs, and International is around $47.00, I beleive. However, rates are going up. When Axel and I exchanged minerals, I sent around 60 lbs, which cost Axel the equivalent in shipping for 20 kgs. So, for the cost. lets not send low level pieces. By the way, I'm open to any suggestions as to trade. Please contact me at my e-mail address. Thanks, Ed Wagner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 2 12:10:02 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:13:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net><8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <000201c90d2b$55781e20$00685a60$@com> Message-ID: <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> Tim and Dave are both correct. But, there is a Flat Rate box for Domestic use that costs $9.85, regardless of weight or US destination. I have packed as much as 25 pounds of minerals in one of these, a real bargain! A postal clerk told me she once sent one of these with steel bars in it to Hawaii, which would have cost $70 otherwise. When using them for non-domestic shipping, they are usually cheaper, but you must compare prices with other classes, as they are not always the cheapest form of USPS shipping, depending on the weight and destination. This is not always convenient, since you can't always change the classification when at the counter, as the FR boxes MUST be sent in the PO special box. And the USPS does not make it easy for the customer to understand their arcane and often indecipherable rules. Larry Rush From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Sep 2 12:47:21 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 12:47:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net><8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <000201c90d2b$55781e20$00685a60$@com> <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CADB4BD99B06E6-148-14C6@WEBMAIL-MC15.sysops.aol.com> Thanks, I was speaking of domestic mail only. I try to stay away from overseas mailings, way too expensive. dave http://prehistoricplanet.com/wv/ -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 3:10 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Tim and Dave are both correct. But, there is a Flat Rate box for Domestic use that costs $9.85, regardless of weight or US destination. I have packed as much as 25 pounds of minerals in one of these, a real bargain! A postal clerk told me she once sent one of these with steel bars in it to Hawaii, which would have cost $70 otherwise. When using them for non-domestic shipping, they are usually cheaper, but you must compare prices with other classes, as they are not always the cheapest form of USPS shipping, depending on the weight and destination. This is not always convenient, since you can't always change the classification when at the counter, as the FR boxes MUST be sent in the PO special box. And the USPS does not make it easy for the customer to understand their arcane and often indecipherable rules.? ? Larry Rush? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link=2 0to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Sep 2 13:44:37 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:45:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net><8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <000201c90d2b$55781e20$00685a60$@com> <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000301c90d3c$b75687b0$26039710$@com> The original statement concerned the cost of shipping to Europe. Domestic flat rate boxes cost $9.80 ($9.30 online) for the small & $12.95 ($12.50 online) for the large, a bargain compared to the former priority mail rates. IMHO, the USPS killed international personal & small business trade when they killed international parcel post. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:10 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Tim and Dave are both correct. But, there is a Flat Rate box for Domestic use that costs $9.85, regardless of weight or US destination. I have packed as much as 25 pounds of minerals in one of these, a real bargain! A postal clerk told me she once sent one of these with steel bars in it to Hawaii, which would have cost $70 otherwise. When using them for non-domestic shipping, they are usually cheaper, but you must compare prices with other classes, as they are not always the cheapest form of USPS shipping, depending on the weight and destination. This is not always convenient, since you can't always change the classification when at the counter, as the FR boxes MUST be sent in the PO special box. And the USPS does not make it easy for the customer to understand their arcane and often indecipherable rules. Larry Rush -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From marksigouin at verizon.net Tue Sep 2 13:58:33 2008 From: marksigouin at verizon.net (Mark) Date: Tue Sep 2 13:58:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting Message-ID: <5D3A3ECBD87444C78E1D4D91771E1780@your71um0ya7hl> Does anyone know of any sites in Elmwood, Tennessee where a visitor may collect? I am planning a trip to Nashville which is nearby and frankly, there is only so much music I can take. I have heard that the mines at Elmwood are open again. I love sphalerite and desire to acquire some specimens. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Sep 2 14:35:25 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 14:40:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <000301c90d3c$b75687b0$26039710$@com> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net><8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <000201c90d2b$55781e20$00685a60$@com> <8A8FBFC922BA45A7AB02B3CC2A4213D7@LarryRush> <000301c90d3c$b75687b0$26039710$@com> Message-ID: <8CADB5AF23A7D09-1348-21F1@webmail-da03.sysops.aol.com> I must have misread the post, didn't realize it was only about overseas postage, got more brain damage than i thought. dave -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 4:44 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] mineral trades The original statement concerned the cost of shipping to Europe. Domestic flat rate boxes cost $9.80 ($9.30 online) for the small & $12.95 ($12.50 online) for the large, a bargain compared to the former priority mail rates. IMHO, the USPS killed international personal & small business trade when they killed international parcel post. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:10 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Tim and Dave are both correct. But, there is a Flat Rate box for Domestic use that costs $9.85, regardless of weight or US destination. I have packed as much as 25 pounds of minerals in one of these, a real bargain! A postal clerk told me she once sent one of these with steel bars in it to Hawaii, which would have cost $70 otherwise. When using them for non-domestic shipping, they are usually cheaper, but you must compare prices with other classes, as they are not always the cheapest form of USPS shipping, depending on the weight and destination. This is not always convenient, since you can't always change the classification when at the counter, as the FR boxes MUST be sent in the PO special box. And the USPS does not make it easy for the customer to understand their arcane and often indecipherable rules. Larry Rush -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 2 17:52:53 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:03:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting References: <5D3A3ECBD87444C78E1D4D91771E1780@your71um0ya7hl> Message-ID: <3968DD8F1F6A4DF5A6AAD98DCC7F3DF1@Goldstein> Elmwood mines are deep underground. I am not sure whether miners can sneak out minerals in their lunch boxes assuming the mines are running again. I collected at road cuts around Carthage and the interstate 20 years ago. Found calcite and celestine crystals in fossils with vugss. Gerard Troost collected fluorite in Smith Co. from were probably surface or near surface deposits. Unfortunately he didn't give much detail to the location. To further complicate things that would have been in the 1830's and 40's! Celestine and other minerals have been found in the Nashville area, but whether there are any accessible locales is unknown. I'd research Davidson and surrounding counties on midat and see what is listed. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting Does anyone know of any sites in Elmwood, Tennessee where a visitor may collect? I am planning a trip to Nashville which is nearby and frankly, there is only so much music I can take. I have heard that the mines at Elmwood are open again. I love sphalerite and desire to acquire some specimens. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 2 18:14:19 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:14:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <57189A935F674D2C905396BB5D49D566@Goldstein> I have also been trading fossils and minerals for quite awhile (like 1980). They are an essential part of my diversification program for my collection.Currently over 100 minerals are on display in the "Rocks, Minerals and Life" exhibit that I set up at the park Interpretive Center (another e-mail to the group). Buying specimens has never been practical. I recall a swap with an Australian dealer that was a bust (no reply, no return of minerals) but I have heard few complaints that my stuff wasn't up to snuff. And if they would comment that they expected something else, I would try to rectify it. I have received poorly wrapped material and damaged specimens - even as late a earlier this year - but experienced people know how to wrap specimens. That doesn't help if they drop it off an airplane onto the tarmac or if the semi-trailer gets clobbered by a train, but the incidental bouncing that causes stuff to shift around in the box can be mitigated. One of my problems with fossil trades is finding people who have specimens I really want. My core collection is pretty esoteric (corals, brachiopods and the like). There are a handful of US locales that are poorly represented in my collection and more from overseas. Of course many nations list fossils as heritage items that cannot be exported, while minerals are allowed to leave. Some even list them under the cultural category that applies to historical artifacts. While I would enjoy a beautifully prepared trilobite or fish like the next fossil collector, it is rare for me to have a specific fossil for trade with a high dollar value. Most rare fossils that I find go into my collection. I also don't trade fossils with scientific research value. Those I prefer to give to the right person who can use it for research. I do - on occasion - trade fossils for minerals, but mostly it is like material. I am always looking for something new and someone new to trade with. My correspondence from trades fills four or five three-ring binders! I save relevant papers because it provides insight into the items I acquire that could have some historical significance eventually. (That is the museum curator in me...) Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 7:07 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades dear List: I have been trading for a few years now, with list and non list members. The exchanges have been mutually beneficial, for the most part, with the exception of one or two persons who have not sent me anything back(!!!), which is rather discouraging, and the subsequent subject of very uncharitable thoughts. However, the exchanges have been on the basis of weight for weight, and comparable quality for comparable quality. Axel Emmermann and I did an Outstanding exchange, whereby both of us were extremely satisfied (if you do not mind my speaking for you, Alex.) The point is that the idea is to not just get rid of a bunch of yard junk, or to foist off some potential driveway cover onto someone else's driveway, but to consider a fair trade. I am personally in the WNC mining district, where within one hundred miles of my residence are many mine dumps and National Forest sites open. Since we do not have the BLM regulations that is present in the western part of the country, small collecting is allowed. However, I would not send anyone a box of shattered beryl or feldspar, on the basis of their being inacessible to Europeans, for example. I would send good samples, or if possible, whatever is requested. I have found, for the most part, fellow collectors respect the degree of quality that they themselves would like to have. The next point is shipping: Here in the US, one can send a Flat Rate Box (the size has diminished) for around $20.00. To Europe, it is $27.00 for up to 20 lbs, and International is around $47.00, I beleive. However, rates are going up. When Axel and I exchanged minerals, I sent around 60 lbs, which cost Axel the equivalent in shipping for 20 kgs. So, for the cost. lets not send low level pieces. By the way, I'm open to any suggestions as to trade. Please contact me at my e-mail address. Thanks, Ed Wagner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Sep 2 18:26:53 2008 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:27:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades Message-ID: Yes, Alan, I too have similar experiences. I sometimes don't have the quality I have received but I never expect better than I trade for. I like my trades making it to the trader before I get mine so that there is a chance to make it fair. I have received outstanding specimens and always welcome trading. I also learn about things I have collected and enjoy the variety. The Postal monkeys seem to play football with some of my packages. I know the anguish. Cheers:) Kevin **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 2 18:48:30 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:50:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <69085A56-795A-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Nice trip report Lanny! I wish I could have joined you. Thanks for sharing! Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 2, 2008, at 00:34 America/Detroit, Lanny R wrote: > Hi All, > > It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few > problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial > Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia > to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the > following URL and follow the links. > > > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html > > or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link. > > If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be > able to answer them for a couple of days, though. > > Regards, > > Lanny > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 2 18:54:39 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 2 18:54:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Table Mtn., Golden, CO In-Reply-To: <0162DC76-77C8-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44F5F701-795B-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Just to keep the record straight, I got a response off-list with references... Cross & Hillebrand, 1885 (USGS Bull.20, p.13-39) Patton, 1900 (GSA Bull, v.11,p.461-474) Rudy Tschernich's book Zeolites of the World This list rocks! Kreigh On Sunday, Aug 31, 2008, at 21:47 America/Detroit, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > When I visited Colorado a couple weeks ago I stopped at Red and Green > Minerals and acquired a nice specimen labeled 'Zeolites, North Table > Mt., Golden, CO'. > > It is a 1x3 inch chunk of a small vug. I researched the location to > find the known minerals to help make identification easier and kept > running across references to our friend Pete > > J. Kile and P. Modreski, 1988, "The Mineral Record" (Vol. 19 > No. 3, May/June, pgs. 153-184) > > I found lots of confirmation and references for the Analcime, > Thompsonite, and Natrolite I identified on the specimen. > > Most of the vug surface is coated with Apophyllite, with the other > minerals on its surface. > > What I found curious is that while I found several references to > Apophyllite from the locality, I found none with citations to the > literature. > > Can anyone point me at a citation for Apophyllite from this classic > location? > > Thanks! > > Kreigh > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Sep 2 19:55:01 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 2 19:55:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Table Mtn., Golden, CO Message-ID: Kreigh, (I haven't had a chance to catch up on mail from the List; just got back from New Hampshire; had a great time.) I'd be interested in seeing a picture of that Table Mtn specimen. Actually, natrolite is extremely uncommon there, so that may not be natrolite; and, apophyllite there usually occurs as just one single, large crystal, in a vug, a late mineral often on top of other things. If there's a lot of it, perhaps it's not apophyllite, either. Hmmm... But of course, it could be...every rock and every vug, is different! cheers, Pete **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Sep 2 20:53:35 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Sep 2 20:53:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral trades In-Reply-To: <8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> References: <090220081107.10575.48BD1E6F0008381F0000294F22218865869B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> <8CADB3E849DF3D9-1614-17F1@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Dave, You can preserve the shine by coating the marcasite. I have had some success with lacquer. There are probably better coatings if you do not mind this preservation method. I've cleaned some with vinegar and even muriatic acid, but if left unprotected they oxidize pretty soon. We have a good many nodules in the Selma Chalk Formation that runs through the Black Belt of Alabama. This formation is also abundantly loaded with sea fossils. Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral trades> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:11:55 -0400> From: betdav97@aol.com> > Hi Ed,> Flat rate boxes are much lower than $20, unless you> are adding in "handling" as part of the bill. In my neck> of the woods flat rate goes from $8 some thing to $10> some thing. Also now there are three sizes to chose> from, the two original ones and a larger one. I've been> taken also on trades, folks should send what is useful not> yard rocks or serious leaverite. After all, there is leaverite> that is good, but not useful to you and real leaverite> which is garbage. In WV much of the geology is leaverite> unless you include our fossils. But even here you can find> something in the most unlikely places, like the marcasite I> found this summer before my accident. Round spheres of> marcasite up to bowling ball size. I kept some of the small> ones and they are still shiny. Guess some breakdown of> marcasite is put off if they aren't exposed to the elements> too long. Oh well, I'm rambling,> dave> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From marksigouin at verizon.net Tue Sep 2 21:14:47 2008 From: marksigouin at verizon.net (Mark) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:18:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting References: <5D3A3ECBD87444C78E1D4D91771E1780@your71um0ya7hl> <3968DD8F1F6A4DF5A6AAD98DCC7F3DF1@Goldstein> Message-ID: Thanks, I have a few Elmwood specimens, and lately I have seen an upsurge in specimens from there. They are pretty expensive. I'm a geologist and tend to gravitate toward ore minerals so the sphalerite from there is really attractive to me. Anyway, thanks again, and I will run the search. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting > Elmwood mines are deep underground. I am not sure whether miners can sneak > out minerals in their lunch boxes assuming the mines are running again. I > collected at road cuts around Carthage and the interstate 20 years ago. > Found calcite and celestine crystals in fossils with vugss. Gerard Troost > collected fluorite in Smith Co. from were probably surface or near surface > deposits. Unfortunately he didn't give much detail to the location. To > further complicate things that would have been in the 1830's and 40's! > Celestine and other minerals have been found in the Nashville area, but > whether there are any accessible locales is unknown. I'd research Davidson > and surrounding counties on midat and see what is listed. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:58 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Elmwood, Tennesse and mineral collecting > > > Does anyone know of any sites in Elmwood, Tennessee where a visitor may > collect? I am planning a trip to Nashville which is nearby and frankly, > there is only so much music I can take. I have heard that the mines at > Elmwood are open again. I love sphalerite and desire to acquire some > specimens. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Sep 2 21:20:09 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Sep 2 21:20:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing. VERRRRY NICE REPORT! The pics make it almost feel like I've been there. (In my dreams :{D anyway.) Cool. Maybe someday. Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > From: lanny.r@roadrunner.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:34:39 -0700> Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip> > Hi All,> > It took longer than I expected, too many things to do and a few > problems, but I've finally got a few pages up on the recent unofficial > Rockhound's List trip to the metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia > to Freezeout to Moses Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the > following URL and follow the links.> > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html> > or got to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link.> > If there are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be > able to answer them for a couple of days, though.> > Regards,> > Lanny --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcessna at nist.gov Wed Sep 3 18:04:59 2008 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Wed Sep 3 18:05:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fun In-Reply-To: <000001c907b9$c6355d20$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <000001c907b9$c6355d20$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080903210031.023a8328@nist.gov> That looks like a few pics from the European Meeting of the FMS field trip. Cheers, New FMS Member At 04:24 PM 8/26/2008, you wrote: >Bill Tompkins is right. This is a fun way to share pics. > >http://picasaweb.google.com/fluospook/FunPics > >Cheers >Axel > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 3 20:49:00 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 3 20:49:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Table Mtn., Golden, CO In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <68FB5F00-7A34-11DD-A67E-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, Have fun in Gunnison on your return from NH. I am sending the specimen to your work address for further study when you get back. Thanks for taking an interest in my specimen. Thanks again for the opportunity to collect with you. Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 2, 2008, at 22:55 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Kreigh, > > (I haven't had a chance to catch up on mail from the List; just got > back > from New Hampshire; had a great time.) > > I'd be interested in seeing a picture of that Table Mtn specimen. > Actually, > natrolite is extremely uncommon there, so that may not be natrolite; > and, > apophyllite there usually occurs as just one single, large crystal, in > a vug, a > late mineral often on top of other things. If there's a lot of it, > perhaps > it's not apophyllite, either. Hmmm... But of course, it could > be...every > rock and every vug, is different! > > cheers, Pete > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your > travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 6 18:03:36 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 6 18:06:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Advertisement] annual summer sale Message-ID: Another summer come and gone!! But, Fall is great in the NE US, and it's time for what has become an annual "End-of-summer" sale...... For new customers.....20% off anything on the site For previous customers......25% off anything on the site OR....buy any 3 specimens, get the 4th one (under $50) free! Sale will run until October 1 www.ConnRoxMinerals.com Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Sat Sep 6 19:01:08 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Sat Sep 6 19:01:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip In-Reply-To: References: <0181D354-C5A2-4C22-B931-7A02E96BD40B@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: Hi Glenn, Kreigh, and others, Glad you liked the event. It was an enjoyable trip. There were two others from the list who had planned on attending; it is too bad they couldn't make it. People from the Rockhounds list need to get together for adventures to other locations that get discussed on the list. Hopefully someone will propose another and I can make that one! Regards, Lanny On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:20 PM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Thanks for sharing. VERRRRY NICE REPORT! > > The pics make it almost feel like I've been there. (In my dreams :{D > anyway.) > > Cool. Maybe someday. > Glenn > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > >> From: lanny.r@roadrunner.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:34:39 -0700> Subject: [Rockhounds] >> Metamorphics trip> > Hi All,> > It took longer than I expected, too >> many things to do and a few > problems, but I've finally got a few >> pages up on the recent unofficial > Rockhound's List trip to the >> metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia > to Freezeout to Moses >> Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the > following URL and follow >> the links.> > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html> > or got >> to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link.> > If there >> are any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be > able >> to answer them for a couple of days, though.> > Regards,> > Lanny > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 6 20:18:57 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 6 20:19:04 2008 Subject: Next Summer's Trip {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Metamorphics trip} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As much as I wanted to go on the metamorphics trip, I had a great time collecting around Denver with Pete Modreski instead. Last year it was collecting with some list members (and the Boston club) in Maine. Next summer I plan on going camping with my sisters (and maybe my brother) in the Finger Lakes area of New York. The plans are obviously vague at this point (late July-early August, probably a week), but we selected the area because it is roughly in the middle of where we all live. I need to put some rockhounding focus into the trip planning. Can anyone suggest collecting opportunities in the Finger Lake region? Are there any list members who might be interested in joining us for at least a day of rockhounding? Kreigh On Saturday, Sep 6, 2008, at 22:01 America/Detroit, Lanny R wrote: > Hi Glenn, Kreigh, and others, > > Glad you liked the event. It was an enjoyable trip. There were two > others from the list who had planned on attending; it is too bad they > couldn't make it. People from the Rockhounds list need to get together > for adventures to other locations that get discussed on the list. > Hopefully someone will propose another and I can make that one! > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > On Sep 2, 2008, at 9:20 PM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing. VERRRRY NICE REPORT! >> >> The pics make it almost feel like I've been there. (In my dreams :{D >> anyway.) >> >> Cool. Maybe someday. >> Glenn >> >> >> >> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me >> >>> From: lanny.r@roadrunner.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:34:39 -0700> Subject: [Rockhounds] >>> Metamorphics trip> > Hi All,> > It took longer than I expected, too >>> many things to do and a few > problems, but I've finally got a few >>> pages up on the recent unofficial > Rockhound's List trip to the >>> metamorphics of northern Idaho: Clarkia > to Freezeout to Moses >>> Butte for kyanite and almandine. Use the > following URL and follow >>> the links.> > http://www.lrream.com/rockhound'smetam.html> > or got >>> to www.LRReam.com and use the Rockhound's Trip link.> > If there are >>> any questions or problems, let me know, but I won't be > able to >>> answer them for a couple of days, though.> > Regards,> > Lanny >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From VevaBailey at aol.com Sat Sep 6 21:49:41 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 6 21:49:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old Message-ID: Hello List; Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years old? He is into rocks and fossils!!! This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add to his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him very excited. She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and English. Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or Carol's address. Best Regards, Veva Bailey --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From stu at arcrystalmine.com Sun Sep 7 06:49:58 2008 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Sun Sep 7 06:50:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz web site References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Last April I met Amir Akhavan from Germany while he was visiting Arkansas. I was fascinated by his knowledge and world travels to research quartz and offered to take him to our Clear Creek mine. Here is a link to his web site and info about the Ouachita mountains. http://www.quartzpage.de/ark.html Check out some of the other pages...it's mind boggling! With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From silverado at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 7 09:54:22 2008 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Sun Sep 7 09:54:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old References: Message-ID: <002f01c9110a$60eb5370$c2bd214a@gail7diqufk9xy> I have some real nice small fossil specimen that I would be happy to send to you, we have a large collection and certainly can spare some for a child that actually has an interest in things beside the TV and computer! Gail. silverado@frontiernet.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old > Hello List; > > Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years > old? > He is into rocks and fossils!!! > This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. > His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add > to > his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. > Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him > very excited. > She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. > Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and > English. > Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or > Carol's address. > > Best Regards, > > Veva Bailey > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Sep 7 10:24:02 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com) Date: Sun Sep 7 10:24:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where do you live? As a general rule I ask parents to give the rules to children that age or younger: a.. Don't eat it or put it in your nose or mouth b.. Likewise don't put it in your little brother's nose, ear or mouth c.. Don't throw it at anyone or anything d.. Don't use it to hit the cat (or anything else) I'm sure you all get the picture. Almost always children respond positively to that message if it is given in the right tone and explained as a set of safety rules. However, I once gave a show to a group of fourth graders. each child received a little baggie with a shark tooth, a piece of petrified wood, and another fossil. The teacher told me it wasn't long before a few trouble makers in the group were using the shark teeth to stick their classmates. This spring I took a group of cub scouts collecting, showed them what to look for, and gave them some web sites to go on to identify what they found. They had a splendid time. getting kids excited about nature is a wonderful thing. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old > Hello List; > > Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years old? > He is into rocks and fossils!!! > This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. > His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add to > his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. > Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him > very excited. > She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. > Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and English. > Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or > Carol's address. > > Best Regards, > > Veva Bailey > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From VevaBailey at aol.com Sun Sep 7 12:00:18 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 7 12:00:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old Message-ID: I live in Dayton, Nevada. 12 miles east of Carson City. As a general rule most children need info about how to not use fossils or other rocks, but according to his Grandmother Carol, he isn't like that. Last year he was in preschool in Japan. But I will remind his Grandmother to caution him about the correct care of his collection. Veva Bailey In a message dated 9/7/2008 10:24:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gene@fossilnut.com writes: Where do you live? As a general rule I ask parents to give the rules to children that age or younger: a.. Don't eat it or put it in your nose or mouth b.. Likewise don't put it in your little brother's nose, ear or mouth c.. Don't throw it at anyone or anything d.. Don't use it to hit the cat (or anything else) I'm sure you all get the picture. Almost always children respond positively to that message if it is given in the right tone and explained as a set of safety rules. However, I once gave a show to a group of fourth graders. each child received a little baggie with a shark tooth, a piece of petrified wood, and another fossil. The teacher told me it wasn't long before a few trouble makers in the group were using the shark teeth to stick their classmates. This spring I took a group of cub scouts collecting, showed them what to look for, and gave them some web sites to go on to identify what they found. They had a splendid time. getting kids excited about nature is a wonderful thing. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old > Hello List; > > Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years old? > He is into rocks and fossils!!! > This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. > His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add to > his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. > Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him > very excited. > She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. > Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and English. > Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or > Carol's address. > > Best Regards, > > Veva Bailey > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From silverado at frontiernet.net Sun Sep 7 18:27:01 2008 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Sun Sep 7 18:30:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old References: Message-ID: <000801c91152$00e41d70$c2bd214a@gail7diqufk9xy> I live in WIsconsin. We have traveled extensively and have a wonderful collection of pet.wood,agate,geodes, fossil,thunder eggs, and just about anything else. We have been trying to market the main collection and have some small things, including fossil that I think would make a child wonder about what it is, where it came from, etc. I would be happy to ship a few small fossil to you, just give me an address. Kids are so willing to learn at a very young age, to bad most people don't take the time to show them a few wonders and get their interest going. Gail Kling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old Where do you live? As a general rule I ask parents to give the rules to children that age or younger: a.. Don't eat it or put it in your nose or mouth b.. Likewise don't put it in your little brother's nose, ear or mouth c.. Don't throw it at anyone or anything d.. Don't use it to hit the cat (or anything else) I'm sure you all get the picture. Almost always children respond positively to that message if it is given in the right tone and explained as a set of safety rules. However, I once gave a show to a group of fourth graders. each child received a little baggie with a shark tooth, a piece of petrified wood, and another fossil. The teacher told me it wasn't long before a few trouble makers in the group were using the shark teeth to stick their classmates. This spring I took a group of cub scouts collecting, showed them what to look for, and gave them some web sites to go on to identify what they found. They had a splendid time. getting kids excited about nature is a wonderful thing. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old > Hello List; > > Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years > old? > He is into rocks and fossils!!! > This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. > His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add > to > his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. > Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him > very excited. > She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. > Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and > English. > Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or > Carol's address. > > Best Regards, > > Veva Bailey > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Sep 7 18:39:56 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Sep 7 18:39:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz web site References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <5E8E81D6A45F4B41A80F8E0B62B2162C@Goldstein> Very well done! Amir's a true quartz aficionado to put up that kind of website! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stu Schmitt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz web site > Last April I met Amir Akhavan from Germany while he was visiting Arkansas. > I was fascinated by his knowledge and world travels to research quartz and > offered to take him to our Clear Creek mine. Here is a link to his web > site and info about the Ouachita mountains. > http://www.quartzpage.de/ark.html > Check out some of the other pages...it's mind boggling! > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 7 19:29:21 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 7 19:29:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Promoting Rockhounding - A Trip Report Message-ID: About two weeks ago I got an invitation via our club president to a potluck party being hosted by Dr. Kevin Cole, head of the Geology Department at Grand Valley State University. He was gathering the geology faculty, students, some other area professors, and the membership of the two local area rock clubs, for an informal afternoon of food and fellowship. So early this afternoon I loaded up a grape salad, a thank you specimen for Dr. Cole (to make up for my late RSVP), my google map to his house, and headed off to the next county. I found the house without problems and was made welcome. I'm glad I went. It was a lot of fun meeting the local geology community. We shared our summer field experiences (and some folks were literally taking notes). Rockhounds, faculty, and students all had something to contribute. There were probably 75 rockhound adults present, and I heard stories from over half of the states in the USA. The volleyball included the kids, and was great entertainment; family friendly parties are always fun. Most stories were about field collecting, either as a hobby, or for geology field studies. But there were exceptions. One student spent his summer monitoring the drilling of wells for a geothermal plant in Utah that was pumping up 143 degree water, generating electricity with it, and injecting it back underground. Another student had done studies every 50 meters along the pathway of a proposed oil pipeline for a federal permit. A professor was collaborating with researchers on three other continents about a book on shoreline geology. One fellow had been studying sand grains to identify the precursor rocks from a pre-cambrian mountain. I was not the only one to bring along a specimen. They were passed around and commented on. I sensed there was some surprise on both sides about how much rockhounds and geologists had in common. I was surprised at the lack of surprise when a student pulled two chisels out of her purse to discuss the merits of the two types of tips (first time I have seen a chisel come out of a purse in a social setting). Several professors and students expressed an interest in joining one of the local rock clubs. At least one rockhound received a tentative invitation from a professor to speak to a class. We found we all had an interest in promoting geology awareness in the elementary grades. It may not have been a typical field trip, and I didn't bring home any rocks, but it was as satisfying as any day in the field. If you club is not already connected to your local geology/education community I can only recommend you find ways to reach out and get connected. I think you will find it worthwhile. Kreigh P.S., In case you are wondering, I gave Kevin a specimen of Sillimanite that I collected with list member Pete Modreski a few weeks ago in the Denver area. It was well received and generated a lot of interest. From VevaBailey at aol.com Sun Sep 7 20:15:37 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 7 20:15:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Promoting Rockhounding - A Trip Report Message-ID: Thanks Kreigh, for relating about your meeting. I only wish that I had someone years ago who would have been a mentor to me before I went to high school and college. I love rocks and my father was a collector while he was alive but neither of us knew what to do with them other than look at them. After my Father died, I had a opportunity to become a silversmith apprentice and took the hobby, career, love whole heartedly. After my Mentor died in Oct. 1998, I took classes at Modesto Jr. College for 4 years from volunteer instructors from Motherlode Mineral Society. I am trying to be a Mentor to any and all people who show an interest in rocks. I myself read all the books I can get my hands on about geology. My Mentor and I used to drive up into the mountains above Oakdale, CA and he would give me lessons on rock formations, strata and how to find gold. Those were fun times for me, so I try to pass this love onto others. If fact right now my Sister and Brother both are rockhounders now and of course when someone asks me what I want as a gift I say....ROCKS!!! They don't have to buy them, just pick them up on the beach and rock piles.LOL. I almost have my lapidary shop set up so I will be cutting and polishing rocks pretty soon. Veva In a message dated 9/7/2008 7:29:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: About two weeks ago I got an invitation via our club president to a potluck party being hosted by Dr. Kevin Cole, head of the Geology Department at Grand Valley State University. He was gathering the geology faculty, students, some other area professors, and the membership of the two local area rock clubs, for an informal afternoon of food and fellowship. So early this afternoon I loaded up a grape salad, a thank you specimen for Dr. Cole (to make up for my late RSVP), my google map to his house, and headed off to the next county. I found the house without problems and was made welcome. I'm glad I went. It was a lot of fun meeting the local geology community. We shared our summer field experiences (and some folks were literally taking notes). Rockhounds, faculty, and students all had something to contribute. There were probably 75 rockhound adults present, and I heard stories from over half of the states in the USA. The volleyball included the kids, and was great entertainment; family friendly parties are always fun. Most stories were about field collecting, either as a hobby, or for geology field studies. But there were exceptions. One student spent his summer monitoring the drilling of wells for a geothermal plant in Utah that was pumping up 143 degree water, generating electricity with it, and injecting it back underground. Another student had done studies every 50 meters along the pathway of a proposed oil pipeline for a federal permit. A professor was collaborating with researchers on three other continents about a book on shoreline geology. One fellow had been studying sand grains to identify the precursor rocks from a pre-cambrian mountain. I was not the only one to bring along a specimen. They were passed around and commented on. I sensed there was some surprise on both sides about how much rockhounds and geologists had in common. I was surprised at the lack of surprise when a student pulled two chisels out of her purse to discuss the merits of the two types of tips (first time I have seen a chisel come out of a purse in a social setting). Several professors and students expressed an interest in joining one of the local rock clubs. At least one rockhound received a tentative invitation from a professor to speak to a class. We found we all had an interest in promoting geology awareness in the elementary grades. It may not have been a typical field trip, and I didn't bring home any rocks, but it was as satisfying as any day in the field. If you club is not already connected to your local geology/education community I can only recommend you find ways to reach out and get connected. I think you will find it worthwhile. Kreigh P.S., In case you are wondering, I gave Kevin a specimen of Sillimanite that I collected with list member Pete Modreski a few weeks ago in the Denver area. It was well received and generated a lot of interest. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From VevaBailey at aol.com Sun Sep 7 22:13:11 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 7 22:13:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old Message-ID: Hello Gail, If there is anything you want cut and polished just let me know. Your collection would make really nice jewelry. If you have geodes you want cut in half just send them to me and I will do that for you. I am sure that Kai will be very happy with the fossil that you send. I am happy that someone can give him a fossil because I don't have any fossils or I would have already given his Grandmother, Carol, one for him. Veva In a message dated 9/7/2008 6:31:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, silverado@frontiernet.net writes: I live in WIsconsin. We have traveled extensively and have a wonderful collection of pet.wood,agate,geodes, fossil,thunder eggs, and just about anything else. We have been trying to market the main collection and have some small things, including fossil that I think would make a child wonder about what it is, where it came from, etc. I would be happy to ship a few small fossil to you, just give me an address. Kids are so willing to learn at a very young age, to bad most people don't take the time to show them a few wonders and get their interest going. Gail Kling. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old Where do you live? As a general rule I ask parents to give the rules to children that age or younger: a.. Don't eat it or put it in your nose or mouth b.. Likewise don't put it in your little brother's nose, ear or mouth c.. Don't throw it at anyone or anything d.. Don't use it to hit the cat (or anything else) I'm sure you all get the picture. Almost always children respond positively to that message if it is given in the right tone and explained as a set of safety rules. However, I once gave a show to a group of fourth graders. each child received a little baggie with a shark tooth, a piece of petrified wood, and another fossil. The teacher told me it wasn't long before a few trouble makers in the group were using the shark teeth to stick their classmates. This spring I took a group of cub scouts collecting, showed them what to look for, and gave them some web sites to go on to identify what they found. They had a splendid time. getting kids excited about nature is a wonderful thing. Gene Hartstein Newark, Delaware ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 12:49 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil for 4 yr. old > Hello List; > > Does anyone have a small fossil they could donate to a young man 4 years > old? > He is into rocks and fossils!!! > This child maybe only 4 years old, but way beyond most other children. > His Grandmother, Carol, a friend of mine has been giving him rocks to add > to > his collection and she would like to give him a small fossil. > Carol called him and told him she had a geode for him and it has made him > very excited. > She thinks he maybe grow up to be a geologist or paleontologist. > Carol's Grandson's name is Kai and speaks and writes Japanese and > English. > Let me know if someone can donate a fossil and I will email my address or > Carol's address. > > Best Regards, > > Veva Bailey > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mhibberd at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 06:43:29 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Mon Sep 8 06:44:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <20080908.094329.21955.2@webmail07.dca.untd.com> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hi my name is Mary Hibberd I am so much the amateur, but have a real love for minerals and so does my granddaughter Mary Smith,she goes to a charter school in Oxford,Pa south east Pa. My need is a speaker someone more knowledgeable then myself.My personal rock collection now belongs to Mary Smith and I am in the process of organizing a case to display on loan to her school her collection and plan to leave it in the school.Mary is in first grade,this summer we went to Henderson North Carolina and Saluda (western) the year before we went to Las Cruces,New Mexico I still work full time and I am raising her myself ,I love this site because it is a wealth of information....please if you are close to us and enjoy speaking to young school age children please respond ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vC4gLwymlcqFYTpQ9oZ4POlclOh5DbuuGJf0ajaz2TJKt4r/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mhibberd at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 06:44:45 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Mon Sep 8 06:45:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <20080908.094445.21955.3@webmail07.dca.untd.com> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hi my name is Mary Hibberd I am so much the amateur, but have a real love for minerals and so does my granddaughter Mary Smith,she goes to a charter school in Oxford,Pa south east Pa. My need is a speaker someone more knowledgeable then myself.My personal rock collection now belongs to Mary Smith and I am in the process of organizing a case to display on loan to her school her collection and plan to leave it in the school.Mary is in first grade,this summer we went to Henderson North Carolina and Saluda (western) the year before we went to Las Cruces,New Mexico I still work full time and I am raising her myself ,I love this site because it is a wealth of information....please if you are close to us and enjoy speaking to young school age children please respond ____________________________________________________________ Click here for easy weight loss help and diet information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4unVuHSjynH7j53QUZlAGE2nRj6wpaFFxyAAGXYBj2HnFouj/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Sep 8 08:27:33 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 8 08:31:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 In-Reply-To: <20080908.094445.21955.3@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20080908.094445.21955.3@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <8CADFDE8CC9E21D-1DB8-92A@FWM-M31.sysops.aol.com> I can put you in touch with one in Hanover, nearby, but not Oxford. Let me know, Dave -----Original Message----- From: mhibberd@netzero.net To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 9:44 am Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hi my name is Mary Hibberd I am so much the amateur, but have a real love for minerals and so does my granddaughter Mary Smith,she goes to a charter school in Oxford,Pa south east Pa. My need is a speaker someone more knowledgeable then myself.My personal rock collection now belongs to Mary Smith and I am in the process of organizing a case to display on loan to her school her collection and plan to leave it in the school.Mary is in first grade,this summer we went to Henderson North Carolina and Saluda (western) the year before we went to Las Cruces,New Mexico I still work full time and I am raising her myself ,I love this site because it is a wealth of information....please if you are close to us and enjoy speaking to young school age children please respond ____________________________________________________________ Click here for easy weight loss help and diet information. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4unVuHSjynH7j53QUZlAGE2nRj6wpaFFxyAAGXYBj2HnFouj/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From fossilnut at verizon.net Mon Sep 8 08:51:07 2008 From: fossilnut at verizon.net (fossilnut@verizon.net) Date: Mon Sep 8 08:51:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 In-Reply-To: <20080908.094329.21955.2@webmail07.dca.untd.com> References: <20080908.094329.21955.2@webmail07.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <212978622-1220889068-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1880529694-@bxe123.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am very close to you. But I am tied up for the next couple of monthsn. I can probably find someone in my clubn so send me some info. I live less than 10 miles from oxford, just inside Delaware southwest of Avondale Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "mhibberd@netzero.net" Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:43:29 To: Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hi my name is Mary Hibberd I am so much the amateur, but have a real love for minerals and so does my granddaughter Mary Smith,she goes to a charter school in Oxford,Pa south east Pa. My need is a speaker someone more knowledgeable then myself.My personal rock collection now belongs to Mary Smith and I am in the process of organizing a case to display on loan to her school her collection and plan to leave it in the school.Mary is in first grade,this summer we went to Henderson North Carolina and Saluda (western) the year before we went to Las Cruces,New Mexico I still work full time and I am raising her myself ,I love this site because it is a wealth of information....please if you are close to us and enjoy speaking to young school age children please respond ____________________________________________________________ Click here for great computer networking solutions! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4vC4gLwymlcqFYTpQ9oZ4POlclOh5DbuuGJf0ajaz2TJKt4r/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mhibberd at netzero.net Mon Sep 8 11:15:07 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Mon Sep 8 11:16:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <20080908.141507.20204.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> please give me a date that you could be available or your friend, Mary goes to Erin Dudley Forbes Charter School on Chrome Road as soon as you let me know I will email Doctor Lee, she is so excited about this ,total student body is 65 K-thru 6 the third grade is currently learning about minerals------- I AM SURE they would like a yearly speaker if you or your friend are interested THANKS MARY HIBBERD ____________________________________________________________ Amazing cruises. Click here to find great deals. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHUsqxCXf5OsUogcPo3DFOC3RlR6p0PM3YoTP98R0S88U9Z/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Sep 8 11:59:44 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Sep 8 12:06:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] samples for young kids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20080908185944.7CE1D1CC45@io.frii.com> Speaking from experience, if you give out mica books to elementary school kids during your geology presentation, most of it will end up on the floor in tiny little bits by the end of your talk. (grin) Alan Silverstein From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Sep 8 12:31:33 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Sep 8 12:33:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] samples for young kids In-Reply-To: <20080908185944.7CE1D1CC45@io.frii.com> References: <20080908185944.7CE1D1CC45@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <48C57D95.2070906@verizon.net> Alan Silverstein wrote: > Speaking from experience, if you give out mica books to elementary > school kids during your geology presentation, most of it will end up on > the floor in tiny little bits by the end of your talk. (grin) Unless of course you ask for two pair of polarized sunglasses, cross them, put the mica sheet in between, hold it up to the window, and show them the rainbow of interference colors! best, Don From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 8 18:57:40 2008 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Sep 8 18:57:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] WNC Message-ID: <090920080157.6144.48C5D81400056EAC0000180022230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Dear Mary Hibbard: I believe you spent time in Hendersonville, NC, because Saluda is south of there. We are in Henderson County, but the town of Henderson (no ville) is located in the NE part of the state, near the Virginia border. Furthermore, my address, for those of you who care, is from: PO Box 6071, Hendersonville, NC 28793, To: PO Box 576, Edneyville, NC 28727. No, I have not moved, just have gotten my mail box closer to my residence. Sincerely, Ed Wagner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 19:19:55 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 8 19:19:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] WNC In-Reply-To: <090920080157.6144.48C5D81400056EAC0000180022230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <090920080157.6144.48C5D81400056EAC0000180022230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: It's really a bad idea to post real addresses and phone numbers on any list BK On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 9:57 PM, wrote: > Dear Mary Hibbard: I believe you spent time in Hendersonville, NC, because > Saluda is south of there. We are in Henderson County, but the town of > Henderson (no ville) is located in the NE part of the state, near the > Virginia border. > Furthermore, my address, for those of you who care, is from: PO Box 6071, > Hendersonville, NC 28793, To: PO Box 576, Edneyville, NC 28727. No, I have > not moved, just have gotten my mail box closer to my residence. Sincerely, > Ed Wagner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > multipart/related > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Sep 9 10:22:02 2008 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Tue Sep 9 10:22:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kentucky Mineral Symposium Nov. 1 & 2 In-Reply-To: <517E829909EC4ED49AAF2C8D6B1C4242@Goldstein> References: <517E829909EC4ED49AAF2C8D6B1C4242@Goldstein> Message-ID: <22056A9A-D4C3-4904-AF22-C99D703A3AB2@heidelberg.edu> Hi Alan, I sent in my registration, but I have not made a reservation at the hotel as yet, in case I did not make it into the group of 50. Can you check and see? Sorry to bother you, but the registration form did not have an email for Charles Oldham. Thanks, Pete Richards On Aug 26, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I am working with several others in conjunction with the Midwest > Chapter of the Friends of Mineralogy to organize a two day > symposium focusing on the history, geology and mineralogy of the > Central Kentucky Mineral District on Nov. 1 & 2. While not as > famous as the IL-KY district, this part of central Kentucky has > been a mineral producer since the War of 1812. Several hundred > mines have produced varying amounts of barite, calcite, fluorite, > galena and sphalerite as well as less common secondary minerals in > the past 196 years. > > The symposium will be based at Historic Shaker Village near > Harrodsburg, Kentucky (which has a large calcite mine on its > property). It will include two days of field excursions and an > evening banquet with more than a half-dozen speakers. The > registration fee is $50 which includes a color symposium guidebook > (with contributions by the speakers), transportation to the sites, > and lunches on both days. This generous package is sponsored by WMB > Engineering, the Kentucky Geological Survey and the Kentucky > Crushed Stone Association, respectively. > > This is also the first symposium for this mineral district that has > ever been held that is geared for the non-professional geologist / > rock hound. I believe the program will be of the highest caliber! > It is certainly the greatest bargain you'll ever find. > > Registration is limited to only 50 people. If you are interested in > additional information and the registration application, please > reply to me (deepskyspy@insightbb.com) and not the list. > > Regards, > Alan Goldstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Sep 9 10:58:26 2008 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Tue Sep 9 10:58:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kentucky Mineral Symposium Nov. 1 & 2 In-Reply-To: <22056A9A-D4C3-4904-AF22-C99D703A3AB2@heidelberg.edu> References: <517E829909EC4ED49AAF2C8D6B1C4242@Goldstein> <22056A9A-D4C3-4904-AF22-C99D703A3AB2@heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: <91C1DB72-310D-48DE-83F6-E1E3FB0352F7@heidelberg.edu> Apologies for sending everyone my personal message to Alan. See some of you there, I hope. Pete Richards From mhibberd at netzero.net Tue Sep 9 14:45:30 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Tue Sep 9 14:49:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] WNC Message-ID: <20080909.174530.1995.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Sir I stand corrected I get confused. We got to go to the Museum in Henderson great place!!! I love the people in that Mineral Museum Mary picked a Geode out and they cracked it for her free of charge and did she hit the mother load....beautiful breath taking smokey Quartz.all their geodes are from I believe the Copper Canyon,Mexico. Then we viewed the most outstanding private collection in Saluda,N.C and I believe we made a lifelong friend Martha Ashley and her son,who gave Mary a Crystal from Arkansas.Then we were directed to Greenville,S.C.which is at the bottom of the mountain from Saluda,N.C.because I wanted Mary to actually go to a non commercial site to collect low and behold I am a proud Grandmother she went over a guard rail down a steep embankment and traveled at least two football fields to a stream where I loaded up beautiful Sillicified drusy quartz look guys I am a amateur(MC ROCKS) has a field description of where we were I loved it,I also saw the largest buck with a rack on him that I have ever seen,wild turkey,yellow jackets and thank you God no snakes........to top our day off..as we were leaving the woods I swear I heard the woods say good-bye (wind in the tree tops) Now Fellas..Believe me I love this site Thank You All Best of the Best M and M in beautiful downtown Oxford,Pa 19363 ____________________________________________________________ Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tvKJQ4zrmWkXWu9iDULEbfJuoX2XLETWVO0vtBJS9KCfozt/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mhibberd at netzero.net Tue Sep 9 16:00:37 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Tue Sep 9 16:08:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <20080909.190037.28315.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> thank you for your response, I was able to connect with the delaware mineral club ,they are very close to us,Thank You again,M&M ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on Hollywood careers and quit your boring job. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWQLcewr10e3hpxWl1ZNq8KuLDrTRHW1UtMHOSOrZYOVR/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 9 18:57:32 2008 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Tue Sep 9 18:57:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum Message-ID: <091020080157.18002.48C7298C0001ACDE0000465222230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Dear Mary Hibbard: Yes, the Hendersonville Museum is a small, but powerpacked museum in the heart of downtown Hendersonville. It has a variety of WNC materials, as well as samples from England, and many other location-collections donated or loaned by the members of the henderson County Mineral society. As mentioned, they have an outstanding geode cracking feature: most of the geodes come from Mexico. Brian Kramer: As far as what I post on the list, I have been an adult for a long time, and the things I post and the consequences, like advice from paranoid fellow list members, are my direct responsibility. thanks for the caution, but please save you concerns. My name and address are a matter of public record, since I am listed in the phone book, as well as on the rosters of several mineral clubs. Gee, even the County Clerk has my name on the Polling Rolls, and Tax Rolls, which is a matter of public record, as is my North Carolina Driver License , and many other documents with my address and phone number on it. So please, give me a ------- Break! EJW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From marksigouin at verizon.net Tue Sep 9 20:00:07 2008 From: marksigouin at verizon.net (Mark Sigouin) Date: Tue Sep 9 19:59:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 In-Reply-To: <20080909.190037.28315.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> References: <20080909.190037.28315.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <3D7360B48D5F4883A5EED931786DAC06@MarkPC> There is a Rock and mineral club in in Mechanicsburg called the Central Pa Rock and Mineral Club. They have a web site ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 thank you for your response, I was able to connect with the delaware mineral club ,they are very close to us,Thank You again,M&M ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on Hollywood careers and quit your boring job. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWQLcewr10e3hpxWl1ZNq8KuLDrTRHW1UtMHOSOrZYOVR/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Sep 9 20:25:47 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Sep 9 20:36:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <091020080157.18002.48C7298C0001ACDE0000465222230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <091020080157.18002.48C7298C0001ACDE0000465222230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <48C73E3B.8050107@arczip.com> WOW! I have never seen such an attitude or hostility, as the second paragraph, on this board before. Chuck Baran edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: >Dear Mary Hibbard: Yes, the Hendersonville Museum is a small, but powerpacked museum in the heart of downtown Hendersonville. It has a variety of WNC materials, as well as samples from England, and many other location-collections donated or loaned by the members of the henderson County Mineral society. As mentioned, they have an outstanding geode cracking feature: most of the geodes come from Mexico. > >Brian Kramer: As far as what I post on the list, I have been an adult for a long time, and the things I post and the consequences, like advice from paranoid fellow list members, are my direct responsibility. thanks for the caution, but please save you concerns. My name and address are a matter of public record, since I am listed in the phone book, as well as on the rosters of several mineral clubs. Gee, even the County Clerk has my name on the Polling Rolls, and Tax Rolls, which is a matter of public record, as is my North Carolina Driver License , and many other documents with my address and phone number on it. So please, give me a ------- Break! EJW > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > multipart/related > text/html >--- > > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 10 06:00:12 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 10 06:06:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <20080909.190037.28315.0@webmail04.dca.untd.com> <3D7360B48D5F4883A5EED931786DAC06@MarkPC> Message-ID: List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old collection. These are labeled; Cactus Calcite Verington District Lyon county Nevada Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered if anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus-like, and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told me these were collected over 40 years ago. I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more about the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little on the web, but some about the habit on web databases). Thanks.....Larry From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 10 06:04:38 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 10 06:07:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite Message-ID: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old collection. These are labeled; Cactus Calcite Verington District Lyon county Nevada Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered if anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus-like, and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told me these were collected over 40 years ago. I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more about the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little on the web, but some about the habit on web databases). Thanks.....Larry "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Sep 10 06:15:41 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Sep 10 06:15:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C7BFB6C38804165BD264B76782A0C9B@sterling88d31e> Yerington, not Verington. I don't know if there's anything on MinDat about that district, but I'll look. What you describe sounds like some calcite I've seen from Mexico, but Mexico is a BIG place. Not much help, sorry.... Cheers- Earl ---------------------------------------------------- Dr. Earl R. Verbeek Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum P: 973-209-7212 F: 973-209-8505 E: shmm@ptd.net -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:00 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old collection. These are labeled; Cactus Calcite Verington District Lyon county Nevada Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered if anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus-like, and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told me these were collected over 40 years ago. I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more about the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little on the web, but some about the habit on web databases). Thanks.....Larry -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 10 06:33:56 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 10 06:39:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <5C7BFB6C38804165BD264B76782A0C9B@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: <1717F41796F04EA19807C9CBB81FE73A@LarryRush> Thanks, Earl...it could easily be "Yerington" on the label. Also, it is possible they are mis-labeled. Do you know the Mexican locality? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:15 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > Yerington, not Verington. I don't know if there's anything on MinDat > about that district, but I'll look. What you describe sounds like some > calcite I've seen from Mexico, but Mexico is a BIG place. > > Not much help, sorry.... > > Cheers- Earl > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Earl R. Verbeek > Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > P: 973-209-7212 > F: 973-209-8505 > E: shmm@ptd.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:00 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > > List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old > collection. > These are labeled; > > Cactus Calcite > Verington District > Lyon county > Nevada > > Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered > if > anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply > terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, > cactus-like, > and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, > which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told > me > these were collected over 40 years ago. > > I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more > about > the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little > on > the web, but some about the habit on web databases). > > > Thanks.....Larry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Sep 10 07:22:22 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Sep 10 07:22:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: <1717F41796F04EA19807C9CBB81FE73A@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi Larry, The label on our specimen says only "Santa Eulalia district". I looked through our archives and found, as expected, that we do not yet have a photograph of this specimen, but if you can imagine a green-fluorescent calcite porcupine, that's about what it's like. If you picked it up you'd probably worry both about getting bloody fingers and about breaking some of the spiky crystals. This isn't all that unusual for calcite, though, so I wouldn't doubt the Yerington label just yet. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:34 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite Thanks, Earl...it could easily be "Yerington" on the label. Also, it is possible they are mis-labeled. Do you know the Mexican locality? Larry From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 10 07:25:34 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 10 07:28:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> Message-ID: <23B6FE0D057A43FD9DCE1CC27F53EC38@LarryRush> I have posted some pictures at: http://www.connroxminerals.com/cactuscalcite.html I need to ID these better, and spend some time cleaning them, and then I will post them for sale. In the meantime, I thought you might like seeing them, AND....any information is greatly appreciated! Larry ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old collection. These are labeled; Cactus Calcite Yerington District Lyon county Nevada Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered if anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus-like, and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told me these were collected over 40 years ago. I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more about the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little on the web, but some about the habit on web databases). Thanks.....Larry From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 10 08:51:34 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Wed Sep 10 08:51:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: <23B6FE0D057A43FD9DCE1CC27F53EC38@LarryRush> References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> <23B6FE0D057A43FD9DCE1CC27F53EC38@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi Larry, Scott Werschky (Miner's Lunchbox; Reno, NV) had a bunch of specimens that looked like those at the Denver Show in 2002. They were labeled as aragonite from the Northern Lights Mine, Yerington District. That mining district is at the western edge of Yerington. There are a lot of mines there with large dumps; the mines are known for a long list of secondary minerals, and some sulfides; and some zeolites in the area. Regards, Lanny On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I have posted some pictures at: > > http://www.connroxminerals.com/cactuscalcite.html > > I need to ID these better, and spend some time cleaning them, and > then I will post them for sale. In the meantime, I thought you might > like seeing them, AND....any information is greatly appreciated! > > Larry > > ============================================== > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > > > List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old > collection. > These are labeled; > > Cactus Calcite > Yerington District > Lyon county > Nevada > > Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I > wondered if > anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply > terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus- > like, > and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little > matrix, > which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner > told me > these were collected over 40 years ago. > > I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know > more about > the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is > little on > the web, but some about the habit on web databases). > > > Thanks.....Larry > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Sep 10 10:44:59 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Wed Sep 10 10:46:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <1538509.24601221068699956.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Their show is this weekend. >There is a Rock and mineral club in in Mechanicsburg called the Central Pa >Rock and Mineral Club. They have a web site > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:00 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 > > >thank you for your response, I was able to connect with the delaware mineral >club ,they are very close to us,Thank You again,M&M >____________________________________________________________ >Click for free info on Hollywood careers and quit your boring job. >http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4s2oWQLcewr10e3hpxWl1ZNq8K >uLDrTRHW1UtMHOSOrZYOVR/ > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at copper.net Wed Sep 10 11:05:24 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 10 11:05:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <48C73E3B.8050107@arczip.com> References: <091020080157.18002.48C7298C0001ACDE0000465222230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> <48C73E3B.8050107@arczip.com> Message-ID: Although I generally ignore it, I too get tired of the condescending assumption that others don't know what they're doing. I can understand Edward expressing his irritation. Let's confine such advice to our own children, at home. Edward: I actually went through Hendersonville many years ago. After a business trip to Ashville, I took two days vacation and wandered around that part of the state, eventually ending up at another business engagement in Greenville. A great area for rockhounding, though I did more looking than digging. If I get a chance to visit that part of NC in the next year or so, are there any reference materials or collecting guides you'd recommend? On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:25:47 -0700, Charles Baran wrote: >WOW! I have never seen such an attitude or hostility, as the second >paragraph, on this board before. > >Chuck Baran > >edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> >>Brian Kramer: As far as what I post on the list, I have been an adult for a long time, -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 11:13:03 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Sep 10 11:13:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: References: <091020080157.18002.48C7298C0001ACDE0000465222230703729B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> <48C73E3B.8050107@arczip.com> Message-ID: Well I'll refrain in the future, but not knowing whether someone is a newbie or a grizzled veteran of the computer wars leaves one wondering how to deal with situations. It isn't as tho there aren't real people lurking in the shadows on the net. But Edward sure handled the situation with polite grace, my hat off to him and let that be a lesson to me. BK On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > Although I generally ignore it, I too get tired of the condescending > assumption that others don't know what they're doing. I can understand > Edward expressing his irritation. Let's confine such advice to our own > children, at home. > > Edward: > I actually went through Hendersonville many years ago. After a > business trip to Ashville, I took two days vacation and wandered > around that part of the state, eventually ending up at another > business engagement in Greenville. A great area for rockhounding, > though I did more looking than digging. If I get a chance to visit > that part of NC in the next year or so, are there any reference > materials or collecting guides you'd recommend? > > On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:25:47 -0700, Charles Baran > wrote: > > >WOW! I have never seen such an attitude or hostility, as the second > >paragraph, on this board before. > > > >Chuck Baran > > > >edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: > > > > >> > >>Brian Kramer: As far as what I post on the list, I have been an adult for > a long time, > > > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 10 11:34:20 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 10 11:37:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush><23B6FE0D057A43FD9DCE1CC27F53EC38@LarryRush> Message-ID: <031EDE8FE8BA47E1804A5049D9516E23@LarryRush> Lanny: Thanks very much! Scott is sure that these came from the Northern Lights Mine in the Yerrington District. He has self-collected at that mine several times. A pretty solid reference! Many thanks to you (and to Earl for the correct spelling!) Larry =============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny R" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > Hi Larry, > > Scott Werschky (Miner's Lunchbox; Reno, NV) had a bunch of specimens that > looked like those at the Denver Show in 2002. They were labeled as > aragonite from the Northern Lights Mine, Yerington District. > > That mining district is at the western edge of Yerington. There are a lot > of mines there with large dumps; the mines are known for a long list of > secondary minerals, and some sulfides; and some zeolites in the area. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> I have posted some pictures at: >> >> http://www.connroxminerals.com/cactuscalcite.html >> >> I need to ID these better, and spend some time cleaning them, and then I >> will post them for sale. In the meantime, I thought you might like >> seeing them, AND....any information is greatly appreciated! >> >> Larry >> >> ============================================== >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" >> > > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite >> >> >> List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old >> collection. >> These are labeled; >> >> Cactus Calcite >> Yerington District >> Lyon county >> Nevada >> >> Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered >> if >> anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply >> terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus- >> like, >> and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, >> which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner told >> me >> these were collected over 40 years ago. >> >> I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more >> about >> the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is little >> on >> the web, but some about the habit on web databases). >> >> >> Thanks.....Larry >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mhibberd at netzero.net Wed Sep 10 15:09:32 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Wed Sep 10 15:11:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: Rockhound Needed in Oxford,Pa.19363 Message-ID: <20080910.180932.26255.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> thank you very much for the information,your show last spring was great,have you ever collected at woods mine little britian township,pa you were close to it when you collected at penn-del quarry ____________________________________________________________ Click to make millions by owning your own franchise. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4t16lwhweG3YGwQE7qqbkW9aBHOFwbyl2wVFeeC9gY8iRurV/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 10 19:10:12 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 10 19:10:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: <5C7BFB6C38804165BD264B76782A0C9B@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: You can see the calcite from Mexico here http://www.greatsouth.net/minerals/ M174_Cactus_Shaped_Calcite_Crystals.htm (no relationship with dealer - it was a google search). Kreigh On Wednesday, Sep 10, 2008, at 09:15 America/Detroit, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Yerington, not Verington. I don't know if there's anything on MinDat > about that district, but I'll look. What you describe sounds like some > calcite I've seen from Mexico, but Mexico is a BIG place. > > Not much help, sorry.... > > Cheers- Earl > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Earl R. Verbeek > Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > P: 973-209-7212 > F: 973-209-8505 > E: shmm@ptd.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence > Rush > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:00 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > > List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old > collection. > These are labeled; > > Cactus Calcite > Verington District > Lyon county > Nevada > > Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I wondered > if > anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply > terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, > cactus-like, > and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little matrix, > which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner > told > me > these were collected over 40 years ago. > > I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know more > about > the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is > little > on > the web, but some about the habit on web databases). > > > Thanks.....Larry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Wed Sep 10 19:53:29 2008 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Wed Sep 10 19:54:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <200809110100.m8B10Mdu016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809110100.m8B10Mdu016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20080910195338.E1A1A387@dm52.mta.everyone.net> Al, for NC guides, have you seen: "Rock, Gem, Mineral Collecting sites in Western North Carolina" by: Richard James Jacquot, Jr. Info here: http://wncrocks.com/book/book.htm If you've heard of MAGMA (Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Association) then you know that he is the quasi leader of this group of rockhounds. They maintain a creed of "99% Digging, 1% Talk" You'll find more info on this page: http://wncrocks.com/magma/magma.htm It is a good guidebook, and straight to the point for most stuff listed. Also, he is working on an updated version, don't know what the status is. Some of the various changes of ownership, collection situations, etc.. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a "member" of MAGMA and have had a great time visiting in NC with Rick and the rest of the MAGMA members and collecting with them at various places. They maintain a web forum for various rockhound stuff that you can find at: www.drityrockhounds.com Sorry if this sounds like an advertisement, but I figured that someone asked, I'd tell. Enjoy! -Steve >Edward: >I actually went through Hendersonville many years ago. After a >business trip to Ashville, I took two days vacation and wandered >around that part of the state, eventually ending up at another >business engagement in Greenville. A great area for rockhounding, >though I did more looking than digging. If I get a chance to visit >that part of NC in the next year or so, are there any reference >materials or collecting guides you'd recommend? Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com http://www.shimatzki.com From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Wed Sep 10 20:05:02 2008 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Wed Sep 10 20:05:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] BBC Article: "Ancient trees recorded in mines " In-Reply-To: <200809110100.m8B10Mdu016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809110100.m8B10Mdu016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20080910200511.E1A6B4A6@dm37.mta.everyone.net> Probably not really anything "NEW" here for most of us, but a rock related article none the less... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604721.stm Here is some text to wet your appite: "By Jonathan Amos Science reporter, BBC News, Liverpool The remains of a tree that grew about 300 million years ago Spectacular fossil forests have been found in the coal mines of Illinois by a US-UK team of researchers. The group reported one discovery last year, but has since identified a further five examples. The ancient vegetation - now turned to rock - is visible in the ceilings of mines covering thousands of hectares" ...It continues on at the link... Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com http://www.shimatzki.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Sep 10 21:31:13 2008 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Sep 10 21:31:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Bryan, et al, I vote for continuing to educate the public. As you said, there are still a lot of newbies on this list and they should be warned every now and then. You didn't know if Edward was a newbie or not, so it's good to be on the safe side. Maybe Edward, Al and a few others should start their own list for "advanced users", call it RockExperts@drizzle.com (since Rockhounds is more of a childish name) and make their own rules for what should and shouldn't be assumed, expressed, and advised. Then we, on the Rockhounds list, can go back to having a good time on the list without needing to worry about what the experts and grizzled veterans might think of our well-intentioned remarks. BTW, I've never seen anyone put their full address on a mailing list, and I've been in the computer industry since the mid 1980's, so I too thought that Edward was a newbie and assumed he didn't know what he was doing. Oh well. You can't win for trying to help anyone anymore. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:13 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum Well I'll refrain in the future, but not knowing whether someone is a newbie or a grizzled veteran of the computer wars leaves one wondering how to deal with situations. It isn't as tho there aren't real people lurking in the shadows on the net. But Edward sure handled the situation with polite grace, my hat off to him and let that be a lesson to me. BK On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > Although I generally ignore it, I too get tired of the condescending > assumption that others don't know what they're doing. I can understand > Edward expressing his irritation. Let's confine such advice to our own > children, at home. > From albalmer at copper.net Wed Sep 10 22:23:58 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:24:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <20080910195338.E1A1A387@dm52.mta.everyone.net> References: <200809110100.m8B10Mdu016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20080910195338.E1A1A387@dm52.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <4oahc45c8pc51mi5fe31c1tpo720nfikp5@4ax.com> Thank you. I have indeed heard of MAGMA. I appreciate the recommendation, because 90% of the field guides published are, to put it politely, crap. On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:53:29 -0400, Steve Shimatzki wrote: >Al, for NC guides, have you seen: > >"Rock, Gem, Mineral Collecting sites in Western North Carolina" > >by: Richard James Jacquot, Jr. > >Info here: > >http://wncrocks.com/book/book.htm > >If you've heard of MAGMA (Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Association) >then you know that he is the quasi leader of this group of rockhounds. >They maintain a creed of "99% Digging, 1% Talk" You'll find more info on >this page: > >http://wncrocks.com/magma/magma.htm > > >It is a good guidebook, and straight to the point for most stuff listed. >Also, he is working on an updated version, don't know what the status >is. Some of the various changes of ownership, collection situations, etc.. > >In the interest of full disclosure, I am a "member" of MAGMA and have >had a great time visiting in NC with Rick and the rest of the MAGMA members >and collecting with them at various places. They maintain a web forum for >various rockhound stuff that you can find at: www.drityrockhounds.com > >Sorry if this sounds like an advertisement, but I figured that someone asked, >I'd tell. > >Enjoy! >-Steve > > >>Edward: >>I actually went through Hendersonville many years ago. After a >>business trip to Ashville, I took two days vacation and wandered >>around that part of the state, eventually ending up at another >>business engagement in Greenville. A great area for rockhounding, >>though I did more looking than digging. If I get a chance to visit >>that part of NC in the next year or so, are there any reference >>materials or collecting guides you'd recommend? > > > > > > > > >Stephen Shimatzki >sjs132@accesstoledo.com >http://www.shimatzki.com -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at copper.net Wed Sep 10 22:37:41 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 10 22:38:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:31:13 -0600, "Bob Loeffler" wrote: > Maybe Edward, Al and a few others should start their own list >for "advanced users", call it RockExperts@drizzle.com (since Rockhounds is >more of a childish name) and make their own rules for what should and >shouldn't be assumed, expressed, and advised. How about we start with a rule that says the main purpose of the list is to discuss rockhounding and associated topics? Perhaps you could start a different list for the purpose of "educating newbies." BTW, *I've* been in the computer industry since 1965, and programmed before that. The first digital computer I programmed had pinboards, neon lamp logic, and rotary switch counters for looping. (Burroughs E101.) I'm still not paranoid, so maybe I'm a "newbie", too. The following is in every one of the millions of Phoenix area residential phonebooks: -- Alan Balmer 14219 N. McPhee Dr. Sun City, AZ 85351 (623) 876-1789 From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 04:47:49 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Sep 11 04:48:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040809110447y72ed470bl634e6484013795e5@mail.gmail.com> Maybe if Bryan didn't come through with a condescending tone, nothing would've been said. A one-liner explaining the "really bad idea" of posting addresses wouldn't be helpful to a newbie... maybe a short note explaining why it is such a bad idea would be a little more appropriate? Maybe you and Bryan have unlisted addresses, but I (as does Ed and Al) have my address listed in many, many public places... so why is it such a big deal? Drew On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Bob Loeffler wrote: > Hi Bryan, et al, > > I vote for continuing to educate the public. As you said, there are still > a > lot of newbies on this list and they should be warned every now and then. > You didn't know if Edward was a newbie or not, so it's good to be on the > safe side. Maybe Edward, Al and a few others should start their own list > for "advanced users", call it RockExperts@drizzle.com (since Rockhounds is > more of a childish name) and make their own rules for what should and > shouldn't be assumed, expressed, and advised. Then we, on the Rockhounds > list, can go back to having a good time on the list without needing to > worry > about what the experts and grizzled veterans might think of our > well-intentioned remarks. > > BTW, I've never seen anyone put their full address on a mailing list, and > I've been in the computer industry since the mid 1980's, so I too thought > that Edward was a newbie and assumed he didn't know what he was doing. Oh > well. You can't win for trying to help anyone anymore. > > Regards, > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:13 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Museum > > Well I'll refrain in the future, but not knowing whether someone is a > newbie > or a grizzled veteran of the computer wars leaves one wondering how to deal > with situations. It isn't as tho there aren't real people lurking in the > shadows on the net. But Edward sure handled the situation with polite > grace, > my hat off to him and let that be a lesson to me. > > BK > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > > > Although I generally ignore it, I too get tired of the condescending > > assumption that others don't know what they're doing. I can understand > > Edward expressing his irritation. Let's confine such advice to our own > > children, at home. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rgangue at yahoo.com Thu Sep 11 04:58:45 2008 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Thu Sep 11 04:59:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <763143.36550.qm@web54202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Larry, ? Just to let you know I have one of the Yerington samples as well that came from an old collection so they have been around for a while. I didn't get to dig mine up to compare but it did look very similar to what i remember. Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Lanny R wrote: From: Lanny R Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:51 AM Hi Larry, Scott Werschky (Miner's Lunchbox; Reno, NV) had a bunch of specimens that looked like those at the Denver Show in 2002. They were labeled as aragonite from the Northern Lights Mine, Yerington District. That mining district is at the western edge of Yerington. There are a lot of mines there with large dumps; the mines are known for a long list of secondary minerals, and some sulfides; and some zeolites in the area. Regards, Lanny On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I have posted some pictures at: > > http://www.connroxminerals.com/cactuscalcite.html > > I need to ID these better, and spend some time cleaning them, and > then I will post them for sale. In the meantime, I thought you might > like seeing them, AND....any information is greatly appreciated! > > Larry > > ============================================== > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > > > List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old > collection. > These are labeled; > > Cactus Calcite > Yerington District > Lyon county > Nevada > > Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I > wondered if > anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply > terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus- > like, > and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little > matrix, > which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner > told me > these were collected over 40 years ago. > > I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know > more about > the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is > little on > the web, but some about the habit on web databases). > > > Thanks.....Larry > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Sep 11 06:16:20 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Sep 11 06:19:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <763143.36550.qm@web54202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <674EE8DF19E64F65B5F516706328E158@LarryRush> Thanks very much, Stan! Are yours identified as Calcite or Aragonite? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Perry" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite Larry, Just to let you know I have one of the Yerington samples as well that came from an old collection so they have been around for a while. I didn't get to dig mine up to compare but it did look very similar to what i remember. Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Lanny R wrote: From: Lanny R Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:51 AM Hi Larry, Scott Werschky (Miner's Lunchbox; Reno, NV) had a bunch of specimens that looked like those at the Denver Show in 2002. They were labeled as aragonite from the Northern Lights Mine, Yerington District. That mining district is at the western edge of Yerington. There are a lot of mines there with large dumps; the mines are known for a long list of secondary minerals, and some sulfides; and some zeolites in the area. Regards, Lanny On Sep 10, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I have posted some pictures at: > > http://www.connroxminerals.com/cactuscalcite.html > > I need to ID these better, and spend some time cleaning them, and > then I will post them for sale. In the meantime, I thought you might > like seeing them, AND....any information is greatly appreciated! > > Larry > > ============================================== > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:04 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite > > > List: I have acquired some 2 dozen unusual Calcites from an old > collection. > These are labeled; > > Cactus Calcite > Yerington District > Lyon county > Nevada > > Both the specimen habit, and the locality are new to me, and I > wondered if > anyone has any information they can add. The pieces are very sharply > terminated crystals, finely grouped in masses up to 6X10 cm, cactus- > like, > and are very delicate and pin-point sharp. There is very little > matrix, > which appears to be massive tan to cream colored Calcite. The owner > told me > these were collected over 40 years ago. > > I'll post some pictures when I get time, but I would like to know > more about > the locality and the geologic environment, if possible. (there is > little on > the web, but some about the habit on web databases). > > > Thanks.....Larry > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mineral.maertens at att.net Thu Sep 11 09:42:00 2008 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan) Date: Thu Sep 11 09:52:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Cactus Calcite In-Reply-To: <200809110100.m8B10Mdq016860@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <091120081642.157.48C94A58000B7CB90000009D22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> So are Larry's samples aragonite or calcite? Larry: Can you verify the morphology of the crystals? Are they trigonal (cross-section) when looking down from the top point, or are they rectangular (prismatic/pointed)? Need a bit more than "pin-point sharp " shape. Thank you for sharing. -- Johan Maertens From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Sep 11 10:11:06 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Sep 11 10:11:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: ADMIN Back to rocks (was) Hendersonville Museum In-Reply-To: <7aac8040809110447y72ed470bl634e6484013795e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <200809110431.m8B4Vajo005807@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040809110447y72ed470bl634e6484013795e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48C9512A.6060104@hawaiiantel.net> I have contacted the people involved in this matter off-list, so the rest of us should leave it and get back to rocks. Aloha, Kitty [Admin Team member] Drew wrote: > Maybe if Bryan didn't come through with a condescending tone, nothing > would've been said. A one-liner explaining the "really bad idea" of posting > addresses wouldn't be helpful to a newbie... maybe a short note explaining > why it is such a bad idea would be a little more appropriate? > > Maybe you and Bryan have unlisted addresses, but I (as does Ed and Al) have > my address listed in many, many public places... so why is it such a big > deal? > > Drew > > On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Bob Loeffler wrote: > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 12 10:15:09 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Sep 12 10:22:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals on US stamps References: <091120081642.157.48C94A58000B7CB90000009D22216128369B0A02D29B9B0EBF9C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Message-ID: <06F36FD981DC43CB9DF5CFE9D3CCA215@LarryRush> Members may not be aware, but there is a new US postage mineral stamp just out!! Seriously, Stamps.com offers anyone a chance to make their own valid US First Class postage stamp, using any photo they want. I just created my first one, using a Thumbnail of Rubellite from my collection..... http://www.connroxminerals.com/Stamp.html It is a bit expensive (about $20 for 20 stamps), but, hey! It's a nice chance to brag to your friends and family about your favorite specimens!! Larry Rush From Paintricks at aol.com Fri Sep 12 10:47:38 2008 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 12 10:47:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals on US stamps Message-ID: What a neat idea Larry. Now I just have to start collecting stamps again. Cheers to all. Kevin **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From owen_s_kramer at meton.net Fri Sep 12 19:40:09 2008 From: owen_s_kramer at meton.net (Owen Kramer) Date: Fri Sep 12 19:45:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Carlsbad, NM Message-ID: <73002a240809121940p5d6d0348oe04cb50090e7fa0d@mail.gmail.com> I will be taking a six month long position at WIPP near Carlesbad, NM. What rockhunting opportunities are there in the area? Owen Spencer Kramer Richland, WA owen_s_kramer@meton.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Sep 12 20:59:41 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (marilyn travis) Date: Fri Sep 12 21:02:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Carlsbad, NM References: <73002a240809121940p5d6d0348oe04cb50090e7fa0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005a01c91555$26cbbe60$4398324a@marilyn> Hello Owen I work at the WIPP site and am past president of the Roadrunner gem and mineral society. I can help you with locations when you get here. What type of things do you want to hunt lapidary, fossils, minerals? What are you coming to WIPP to do? I am in the Site Environmental Compliance section. was Maneger of Hydrology Steve Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Kramer" To: Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Carlsbad, NM >I will be taking a six month long position at WIPP near Carlesbad, NM. >What > rockhunting opportunities are there in the area? > > Owen Spencer Kramer > Richland, WA > > owen_s_kramer@meton.net > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Sat Sep 13 14:15:36 2008 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Sat Sep 13 14:17:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Minerals on US stamps In-Reply-To: <200809130101.m8D11aKj002313@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809130101.m8D11aKj002313@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20080913141547.E1A573A5@dm37.mta.everyone.net> Larry, While that is a Cool idea, obviously "vanity stamps" will cost more. A better approach might be to Join the AFMS efforts to get a new set of stamps through the USPS. Here is the link with information and more links: http://www.amfed.org/stamps.htm There is an address on there to write to for support of the project, so please check it out. To copy some of the text from their flyer: The American Federation of Mineralogical Societies is attempting to attain Birthstones on U.S. stamps. We need you to actively support and promote the project by continuing letters or notes to the USPS. You do not have to be an AFMS member to write. Please mail your PERSONAL letter to: The Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee Stamp Development US Postal Service 1735 North Lynn St., Room 5013 Arlington VA 22209-6432 -Steve PS... Stamps with my kids or Stamps with my minerals... No harder decision to be made. :) >Members may not be aware, but there is a new US postage mineral stamp just >out!! > >Seriously, Stamps.com offers anyone a chance to make their own valid US >First Class postage stamp, using any photo they want. I just created my >first one, using a Thumbnail of Rubellite from my collection..... > >http://www.connroxminerals.com/Stamp.html > > >It is a bit expensive (about $20 for 20 stamps), but, hey! It's a nice >chance to brag to your friends and family about your favorite specimens!! > >Larry Rush Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com http://www.shimatzki.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 13 17:58:44 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Sep 13 17:58:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <140812.13292.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The monthly update to www.sauktown.com will be posted shortly. It'a a little late this month, and replies may be even later. Due to family functions and houseguests, I may not be able to acknowledge orders until Tuesday. When I get to them, I'll handle them in the order they were received. This month we have more material from Laurium, Greece and from Girard, GA. Some of the species on the list are: haggite, kraisslite, pachnolite, schaurteite, stibarsen, agardite-(La), dresserite, englishite, ferrostrunzite, and pumpellyite-(Fe+++). Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com ? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Sat Sep 13 18:22:44 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (marilyn travis) Date: Sat Sep 13 18:24:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] interesting site References: <140812.13292.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011701c91608$63e521c0$4398324a@marilyn> I don't remember if I have posted this site before but mineral folks may find it interesting. Steve http:/www.mineralatlas.com/General%20introduction/Introduction.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds" ; Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales The monthly update to www.sauktown.com will be posted shortly. It'a a little late this month, and replies may be even later. Due to family functions and houseguests, I may not be able to acknowledge orders until Tuesday. When I get to them, I'll handle them in the order they were received. This month we have more material from Laurium, Greece and from Girard, GA. Some of the species on the list are: haggite, kraisslite, pachnolite, schaurteite, stibarsen, agardite-(La), dresserite, englishite, ferrostrunzite, and pumpellyite-(Fe+++). Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 13 21:27:14 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 13 21:27:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Rockhounds ]Leaverite - was " My Personal Collection" In-Reply-To: <53E2C7F2D57C44129DCEF46CC82160BE@ArmandoPC> Message-ID: <680D8684-8215-11DD-8BD3-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> You're on Armando. My box of 'leaverite' specimens is on the way. Anyone else interested in a trade? Kreigh On Monday, Sep 1, 2008, at 09:26 America/Detroit, Armando Afonso wrote: > Good idea. > > Let start it. > To anyone who send me a box of labeled leaverites, I return the > equivalent in terms of weight and quality from my place. > > Armando Afonso > Urb. Miraserra - lote 6 7.? dto > 8100LOULE > PORTUGAL > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 4:02 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] My Personal Collection > > >> Hi Larry. >> >> Did you take over the living room or the basement to make your rock >> room? That's pretty impressive. >> >> I would have liked to get a closer look at the display cases that >> line the room. Would you consider replacing the current images with >> composites made of close-ups of each case section that I could click >> on to get a larger image and see the specimens clearly? A table of >> pictures would have basically the same image as the current wall >> photographs. >> >> I agree with you about the value of trading. The internet makes it >> easy. Your local Leaverite may be fairly common, but take it half way >> across the country (or around the world) and it starts to be >> interesting stuff that makes nice trades. >> >> Thanks for sharing! >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> On Sunday, Aug 31, 2008, at 11:14 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush >> wrote: >> >>> As an active mineral collector, and like all of us, there is nothing >>> I like better to do than to see, and talk about minerals! >>> >>> Since I have recently made some additions to my personal web site, I >>> would like to invite members to see the result of what 50 years of >>> digging, buying (on a modest budget), and especially trading of >>> minerals can do. I am an advocate of trading, and still exchange by >>> mail and in person regularly. I strongly urge all collectors to >>> contact others, and take advantage of swapping your extras to others >>> who may not have the opportunity to get them otherwise. There are >>> not many swap meets these days, but the Internet is a great avenue >>> to explore, and friendly collectors all over the world are lurking >>> there. It is easy to exchange photos, and with an honest effort, you >>> can easily contact collectors anywhere. By doing so, you will not >>> only enhance your own collection, you will spread the fascination >>> and enjoyment of minerals to others. >>> >>> You may also be as lucky as I have been, to gain the friendship of >>> others which will enrich your life in many unexpected and >>> serendipitous ways! >>> >>> Good Collecting............. >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> Guilford, CT >>> >>> http://MyMinerals.homestead.com/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 14 08:35:07 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Sep 14 08:38:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cactus Calcite References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> Message-ID: Not to belabor a point, but I have now identified the "Cactus Calcite" as being from Santa Eulalia, Mexico. It turned out to be a laborious task, but I am now confident of this locality. I have photographed them and put them for sale on my web site and will offer the same temporary "sale" conditions as I mentioned earlier. Thanks for all of your help (and your patience with my "sales pitch")!! Larry Rush http://www.connroxminerals.com/ From timeman123 at optonline.net Mon Sep 15 06:19:26 2008 From: timeman123 at optonline.net (ROBERT A SANTEE) Date: Mon Sep 15 06:19:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Message-ID: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Sep 15 06:55:46 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Sep 15 06:55:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <3627FDC45ACF4A1F8A908F379C8167E8@sterling88d31e> Good morning Bob, New Jersey isn't such a great place for fulgurites because it's so heavily vegetated. In desert environments a promising thing to do is to drive along power lines and inspect each pole for signs of damage by lightning, and inspect the ground around the pole for signs of discoloration. The poles are often hit by lightning, so it's around their base that people go to hunt for fulgurites. Other than that, the best bet is to go to sandy areas (dune complexes by the shore) and look for the top of a fulgurite sticking out of the sand. That's a long shot, but commonly the best we can do around here. Also check out any high, sparsely vegetated promontories for rock fulgurites, places where lightning struck the ground and partially melted the rock, so you get a glassy glaze on the surface. Those are fulgurites too. Again this is easier to do out West, where there are numerous peaks above timberline, but it can happen here in little old New Jersey too. Good luck out there.... Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT A SANTEE Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 15 07:05:15 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Sep 15 07:16:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> Bob: Fulgurites are hard to find. The best way is to see precisely where a lightning strike has taken place, and look over the surface there (after the storm!). The bolt may follow a tree trunk into the ground, too. Since you live in NJ, the beach is a good spot to look after a strong lightning storm. The quartz beach sand will be fused into tubular, twisting forms at and under the beach surface, sometimes for relatively long distances into the surface depending on the strength of the strike. I have heard of people also finding them at the site of car crashes, where a car has struck and knocked down the power poles and where the live wires have sparked against the dirt and gravel on the roadside. Are these Fulgurites??? Some are sold as such, even if they are not formed by lightning. I have also heard of an enterprising shyster in Florida who takes a welding machine to a remote area and somehow fuses the sand with that. (Let the buyer beware!!). I would be careful of the ones being sold on E-Bay or the web from overseas, for the same kinds of reasons. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" To: Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started > to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in > New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them > any info would be great thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 15 07:40:34 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 15 07:41:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <3627FDC45ACF4A1F8A908F379C8167E8@sterling88d31e> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <3627FDC45ACF4A1F8A908F379C8167E8@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: <01c901c91741$05448720$6401a8c0@okapi> Earl's pretty right on this.... NJ is kinda green "Garden State" and all that. There are a couple of places that I'd recommend, though. Pine Barrens There are some "mountains" (i.e.. "Mt. Misery") in the Barrens that poke up about the plane (as in around 10 to 20 feet!) and are good targets for lightning strikes. There have been a lot of forest fires down there, so there are plenty of bare spots that might be good possibilities. Sandy Hook Sandy Hook has a number of high spots that should be good targets. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Earl R. Verbeek > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:56 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > Good morning Bob, > > New Jersey isn't such a great place for fulgurites because > it's so heavily vegetated. ... From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Sep 15 07:43:36 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Sep 15 07:43:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> Hi Larry, Well, there are legitimate "cultured" fulgurites too, and I remember reading through a web site about a group in Florida that makes them. They're above-board, selling them for what they are. And what a neat idea! I forget the exact mechanics, but they prepare a target bed of sand, wait for a storm, and then (this is the part that's fuzzy in my mind) they fire a little rocket to carry a long wire up into the air, and WHAM! the lightning strikes the wire and follows the wire down to the target area. Neat trick. And the fun part is that you can select anything you like for the target -- if you want a zircon fulgurite, go right ahead. Just buy a 50-lb sack of zircon sand and go for it. So, are these fulgurites? Sure. They bear the same relation to natural fulgurites as synthetic ruby does to natural rubies: they're both ruby, just one natural and one made in a lab. Same thing here, I think, with the fulgurites Cheers- Earl On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:05:15 -0400, Larry Rush wrote: > Bob: Fulgurites are hard to find. The best way is to see precisely where a > lightning strike has taken place, and look over the surface there (after > the > storm!). The bolt may follow a tree trunk into the ground, too. Since you > live in NJ, the beach is a good spot to look after a strong lightning > storm. > The quartz beach sand will be fused into tubular, twisting forms at and > under the beach surface, sometimes for relatively long distances into the > surface depending on the strength of the strike. I have heard of people > also > finding them at the site of car crashes, where a car has struck and > knocked > down the power poles and where the live wires have sparked against the > dirt > and gravel on the roadside. Are these Fulgurites??? Some are sold as such, > > even if they are not formed by lightning. I have also heard of an > enterprising shyster in Florida who takes a welding machine to a remote > area > and somehow fuses the sand with that. (Let the buyer beware!!). I would be > > careful of the ones being sold on E-Bay or the web from overseas, for the > same kinds of reasons. > > Larry Rush > From jeanne at jeannius.com Mon Sep 15 07:49:59 2008 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Mon Sep 15 07:50:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> Message-ID: <48CE7617.6030702@jeannius.com> What a cool idea! I've only found one myself, though I had always wanted to since I first read about them...thing was, I didn't know that was what I'd found until years later! You see, it was down in S. Maryland where there is a lot of bog iron and I just found this neat, hollow piece, stoney and reddish tinged, never realizing it was a fulgarite until later. You can see melt patterns inside etc. It's my 'prize' rock find! Jeanne Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Well, there are legitimate "cultured" fulgurites too, and I remember > reading through a web site about a group in Florida that makes them. > They're above-board, selling them for what they are. And what a neat idea! > I forget the exact mechanics, but they prepare a target bed of sand, wait > for a storm, and then (this is the part that's fuzzy in my mind) they fire > a little rocket to carry a long wire up into the air, and WHAM! the > lightning strikes the wire and follows the wire down to the target area. > Neat trick. And the fun part is that you can select anything you like for > the target -- if you want a zircon fulgurite, go right ahead. Just buy a > 50-lb sack of zircon sand and go for it. > > So, are these fulgurites? Sure. They bear the same relation to natural > fulgurites as synthetic ruby does to natural rubies: they're both ruby, > just one natural and one made in a lab. Same thing here, I think, with the > fulgurites > > Cheers- Earl > > > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 15 07:47:53 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Sep 15 07:50:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu><96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> Message-ID: Wow...Ben Franklin lives! That may be the process I heard about (anecdotally)... I don't know as I would want to be anywhere near the rocket/wire as it performs it's duties, 'tho. Thanks, Earl......Larry ============================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > Hi Larry, > > Well, there are legitimate "cultured" fulgurites too, and I remember > reading through a web site about a group in Florida that makes them. > They're above-board, selling them for what they are. And what a neat > idea! > I forget the exact mechanics, but they prepare a target bed of sand, wait > for a storm, and then (this is the part that's fuzzy in my mind) they fire > a little rocket to carry a long wire up into the air, and WHAM! the > lightning strikes the wire and follows the wire down to the target area. > Neat trick. And the fun part is that you can select anything you like for > the target -- if you want a zircon fulgurite, go right ahead. Just buy a > 50-lb sack of zircon sand and go for it. > > So, are these fulgurites? Sure. They bear the same relation to natural > fulgurites as synthetic ruby does to natural rubies: they're both ruby, > just one natural and one made in a lab. Same thing here, I think, with > the > fulgurites > > Cheers- Earl > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:05:15 -0400, Larry Rush wrote: >> Bob: Fulgurites are hard to find. The best way is to see precisely where > a >> lightning strike has taken place, and look over the surface there (after >> the >> storm!). The bolt may follow a tree trunk into the ground, too. Since you > >> live in NJ, the beach is a good spot to look after a strong lightning >> storm. >> The quartz beach sand will be fused into tubular, twisting forms at and >> under the beach surface, sometimes for relatively long distances into the > >> surface depending on the strength of the strike. I have heard of people >> also >> finding them at the site of car crashes, where a car has struck and >> knocked >> down the power poles and where the live wires have sparked against the >> dirt >> and gravel on the roadside. Are these Fulgurites??? Some are sold as > such, >> >> even if they are not formed by lightning. I have also heard of an >> enterprising shyster in Florida who takes a welding machine to a remote >> area >> and somehow fuses the sand with that. (Let the buyer beware!!). I would > be >> >> careful of the ones being sold on E-Bay or the web from overseas, for the > >> same kinds of reasons. >> >> Larry Rush >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 08:03:45 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 15 08:05:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <01c901c91741$05448720$6401a8c0@okapi> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <3627FDC45ACF4A1F8A908F379C8167E8@sterling88d31e> <01c901c91741$05448720$6401a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: That's at Camp Blanding and run by the University of Florida EE dept I think. They are actually studying lightning and I think fugerites are a incidental byproduct. I think that is the group which discovered the burst of gamma radiation emitted by lightning. BK On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:40, Gary Brown wrote: > Earl's pretty right on this.... NJ is kinda green "Garden State" and all > that. > > There are a couple of places that I'd recommend, though. > > Pine Barrens > > There are some "mountains" (i.e.. "Mt. Misery") in the Barrens that poke up > about the plane (as in around 10 to 20 feet!) and are good targets for > lightning strikes. There have been a lot of forest fires down there, so > there are plenty of bare spots that might be good possibilities. > > > Sandy Hook > > Sandy Hook has a number of high spots that should be good targets. > > GcB > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Earl R. Verbeek > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:56 AM > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > > > Good morning Bob, > > > > New Jersey isn't such a great place for fulgurites because > > it's so heavily vegetated. ... > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rhill at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Sep 15 10:14:57 2008 From: rhill at lpl.arizona.edu (Rik Hill) Date: Mon Sep 15 10:14:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <48CE7617.6030702@jeannius.com> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> <48CE7617.6030702@jeannius.com> Message-ID: <48CE9811.3040003@lpl.arizona.edu> I've found mine around the base of the tall utility poles out in the desert. -Rik (in Tucson) Jeanne Rhodes-Moen wrote: > What a cool idea! I've only found one myself, though I had always > wanted to since I first read about them...thing was, I didn't know > that was what I'd found until years later! You see, it was down in S. > Maryland where there is a lot of bog iron and I just found this neat, > hollow piece, stoney and reddish tinged, never realizing it was a > fulgarite until later. You can see melt patterns inside etc. It's my > 'prize' rock find! > > Jeanne > > Earl R. Verbeek wrote: >> Hi Larry, >> >> Well, there are legitimate "cultured" fulgurites too, and I remember >> reading through a web site about a group in Florida that makes them. >> They're above-board, selling them for what they are. And what a neat >> idea! >> I forget the exact mechanics, but they prepare a target bed of sand, >> wait >> for a storm, and then (this is the part that's fuzzy in my mind) they >> fire >> a little rocket to carry a long wire up into the air, and WHAM! the >> lightning strikes the wire and follows the wire down to the target >> area. Neat trick. And the fun part is that you can select anything >> you like for >> the target -- if you want a zircon fulgurite, go right ahead. Just >> buy a >> 50-lb sack of zircon sand and go for it. >> >> So, are these fulgurites? Sure. They bear the same relation to natural >> fulgurites as synthetic ruby does to natural rubies: they're both ruby, >> just one natural and one made in a lab. Same thing here, I think, >> with the >> fulgurites >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> >> From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 15 10:38:27 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Sep 15 10:40:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <722960.2111.qm@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, There wouldn't be many places in your immediate area- the shore would be a better bet. I guess you could try the beaches on some of the small lakes in your area- Fayson Lakes is at a fairly high elevation, for example, or maybe Lake Swannanoa (sp?) Jim Daly --- On Mon, 9/15/08, ROBERT A SANTEE wrote: From: ROBERT A SANTEE Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 6:19 AM Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From markstanley at bellnet.ca Mon Sep 15 11:23:42 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Mon Sep 15 11:25:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites Message-ID: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> I have collected Fulgurites for a few years now. Personally finding them is very difficult if not impossible in the area that I live. The best indicator is burned vegetation and melted and disturbed soil. The problem is that after a few weeks the vegetation has regrown and covered the ground again hiding any evidence of the melt. I have had better luck by work of mouth, and information from other collectors. There appears to be a better chance of a Fulgurite being created when the lightning directly strikes the ground. I expect that if it hits a tree, utility pole or building it looses energy that is needed to make the melt. One thing I have seen is that there are few things that are typical about lightning. It is very unpredictable. There are some differences between true Fulgurites that have been created by lightning and those that result from downed hydro lines (hydro melts). With lightning, the energy is in hundreds and thousands of kilovolts, downed hydro lines are in thousands of volts. They can look very similar, but if you examine the glass as polished thin sections, the lightning melts show a far greater level of melt of the host soil or sand. Hydro melts typically will still have fragments of some of the original silicates mixed in the glass. All are melted soil and rock, but they should be represented as lightning created or man induced. Check out the following: http://www.turnstone.ca/fulgur.htm http://www.turnstone.ca/silicide.htm The largest hydro melt that I have excavated was about 3 metres in length, it was from a 3000 volt line that discharged through a residential TV tower for about 3 hours. I had to wait a couple of days for it to cool enough to dig. While its size was similar to lightning fulgurites, it was a mass of hundreds of small branches coming off of the main mass. True Fulgurites typically are a single large branch, or several large branches, that tapers down in size and have only a few small branches exiting off. The Fulgurites from the Sahara Desert that are offered on Ebay and at shows are quite often 1 to 20 cm long and less than 2 cm in diameter. I have a number of examples from all over North America that range in length from 10 to 60 cm and have diameters of 3 to 22 cm. Some have come from Ebay, some from shows and a very few have been self collected. The question I have is why are those from the Sahara Desert area so much smaller? Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Sep 15 11:48:39 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Sep 15 11:58:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites In-Reply-To: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> References: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: Mark Stanley wrote [about fulgurites]: The > question I have is why are those from the Sahara Desert area so much > smaller? > Hi Mark, My guess: dry sand, so less melting. Much easier to generate a silicate melt in the presence of a hydrous phase than not. Cheers- Earl Verbeek From kugeln at peoplepc.com Mon Sep 15 17:17:53 2008 From: kugeln at peoplepc.com (kugeln@peoplepc.com) Date: Mon Sep 15 17:17:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. The glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete Modreski, correct me if I'm wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" To: Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:19 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started > to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in > New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them > any info would be great thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 15 17:28:46 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 15 17:28:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <6CA5E8E1-8386-11DD-B759-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Bob, Go to where there has been a lot of cloud to ground lightning strikes and look for burned spots on the ground after the storm has passed. Your local TV station probably has storm track radar that maps lightning strikes. Pay attention to the high spots. Sand dunes are good candidates. Look around places where something sticks out of the ground (like power poles, lone trees, rock spires). Think like an electron trying to escape the ground to the clouds. Kreigh On Monday, Sep 15, 2008, at 09:19 America/Detroit, ROBERT A SANTEE wrote: > Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just > started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for > them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area > to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 15 17:51:47 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 15 17:51:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> Message-ID: Making your own 'fulgurites' is pretty easy. Take a chunk of metal, attach a wire to it, and put at the bottom of a bucket. Run the wire up the side of the bucket. Fill the bucket with sand. Hook the wire to a neon sign transformer (12-20K volts). Hook another wire to the other side of the transformer and fasten it to one end of a long dowel. Push it thru the sand until the wire contacts the metal in the bottom of the bucket. Plug in the transformer and listen for the spark. The spark will melt some of the sand, making it conductive. Slowly withdraw the dowel, extending your tube of molten sand. When you get to the top, unplug the transformer. Take care not to get close to the wires. Even at a few milliamps, a 12K jolt will knock you across the room and can be deadly. Let the sand cool. The glass needs time to temper. Let the sand cool. Pour off the sand and collect your 'fulgurite'. Be warned, it will probably still be hot enough to burn your fingers. It will also be fragile. If you don't have a neon sign transformer, you can also use an arc welder. Neon sign transformers are more forgiving than arc welders because they can put out a two inch spark. Arc welders make thicker 'fulgurites' because they have more current, but it is harder to keep the spark going in the bucket. Kreigh On Monday, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:05 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Bob: Fulgurites are hard to find. The best way is to see precisely > where a lightning strike has taken place, and look over the surface > there (after the storm!). The bolt may follow a tree trunk into the > ground, too. Since you live in NJ, the beach is a good spot to look > after a strong lightning storm. The quartz beach sand will be fused > into tubular, twisting forms at and under the beach surface, sometimes > for relatively long distances into the surface depending on the > strength of the strike. I have heard of people also finding them at > the site of car crashes, where a car has struck and knocked down the > power poles and where the live wires have sparked against the dirt and > gravel on the roadside. Are these Fulgurites??? Some are sold as such, > even if they are not formed by lightning. I have also heard of an > enterprising shyster in Florida who takes a welding machine to a > remote area and somehow fuses the sand with that. (Let the buyer > beware!!). I would be careful of the ones being sold on E-Bay or the > web from overseas, for the same kinds of reasons. > > Larry Rush > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" > > To: > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 9:19 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > >> Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just >> started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for >> them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good >> area to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 15 18:15:38 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 15 18:15:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <8ab908581b40f9381963237b9eecfe6e@ptd.net> Message-ID: If you don't want to take the risk of making your own fulgurites with rockets http://www.pbs.org/wnet/savageplanet/03deadlyskies/02lresearch/ indexmid.html you can use NASA technology to pinpoint where lightning hits. http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/ lightning_strikes_020925.html But just like minerals, if you make your own 'fulgurites' they are not natural and need to be labeled as man made or artifacts. On Monday, Sep 15, 2008, at 10:43 America/Detroit, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Hi Larry, > > Well, there are legitimate "cultured" fulgurites too, and I remember > reading through a web site about a group in Florida that makes them. > They're above-board, selling them for what they are. And what a neat > idea! > I forget the exact mechanics, but they prepare a target bed of sand, > wait > for a storm, and then (this is the part that's fuzzy in my mind) they > fire > a little rocket to carry a long wire up into the air, and WHAM! the > lightning strikes the wire and follows the wire down to the target > area. > Neat trick. And the fun part is that you can select anything you like > for > the target -- if you want a zircon fulgurite, go right ahead. Just > buy a > 50-lb sack of zircon sand and go for it. > > So, are these fulgurites? Sure. They bear the same relation to > natural > fulgurites as synthetic ruby does to natural rubies: they're both > ruby, > just one natural and one made in a lab. Same thing here, I think, > with the > fulgurites > > Cheers- Earl > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:05:15 -0400, Larry Rush wrote: >> Bob: Fulgurites are hard to find. The best way is to see precisely >> where > a >> lightning strike has taken place, and look over the surface there >> (after >> the >> storm!). The bolt may follow a tree trunk into the ground, too. Since >> you > >> live in NJ, the beach is a good spot to look after a strong lightning >> storm. >> The quartz beach sand will be fused into tubular, twisting forms at >> and >> under the beach surface, sometimes for relatively long distances into >> the > >> surface depending on the strength of the strike. I have heard of >> people >> also >> finding them at the site of car crashes, where a car has struck and >> knocked >> down the power poles and where the live wires have sparked against the >> dirt >> and gravel on the roadside. Are these Fulgurites??? Some are sold as > such, >> >> even if they are not formed by lightning. I have also heard of an >> enterprising shyster in Florida who takes a welding machine to a >> remote >> area >> and somehow fuses the sand with that. (Let the buyer beware!!). I >> would > be >> >> careful of the ones being sold on E-Bay or the web from overseas, for >> the > >> same kinds of reasons. >> >> Larry Rush >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Mon Sep 15 18:17:21 2008 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Mon Sep 15 18:17:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <200809160102.m8G126IN002672@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200809160102.m8G126IN002672@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20080915181733.E1A62E88@dm07.mta.everyone.net> At 09:02 PM 9/15/2008, you wrote: >Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just >started to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for >them.I live in New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good >area to collect them any info would be great thanks bob. Hmm.. Sometimes the list amazes me. It seems Some subjects are slow and boring, while others seem to conduct like a lighting rod.... 8) Thank you, I'll be at the terminal all night.... Don't forget to tip your moderators! Sorry, Had to do it.... -Steve S. From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 15 20:45:49 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 15 20:45:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: References: <96F602A99DFB41E3A2C5885A9A48BD94@LarryRush> Message-ID: <009001c917ae$b5c08050$6401a8c0@okapi> That's "anneal" not "temper". . Annealing is the process of the controlled cooling of glass to relieve the internal stresses caused by fusing. (Did you know that annealing the BIG reflecting telescope mirrors can take a YEAR??). Your glass pal... Gary (http://fusedlight.com) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:52 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > Making your own 'fulgurites' is pretty easy..... > > Let the sand cool. The glass needs time to temper. ... > From jcstiff at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 00:48:23 2008 From: jcstiff at gmail.com (Joshua Stiff) Date: Tue Sep 16 00:48:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes Message-ID: <48aa46800809160048r53a278b0i3469253a0ae61569@mail.gmail.com> I have been cleaning Lolo smoky quartz specimens and Challis volcanic agates/geodes using muriatic acid. The results have been mixed. Sometimes the specimens come out beautifully, while other times I end up with a yellow staining. I've tried re-bathing the specimens in muriatic, and again, sometimes this helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its really bizarre to me as I can't pin-point any concrete similarities as to why the staining occurs. My best guess is that depending on what's reacting in the load I am washing, perhaps the temperature in the specimen's matrix increases enough with the reaction to allow acid to permeate the specimen? I would assume then, when the acidic reaction stops, HCl is trapped inside the specimen causing yellow staining? I am no chemist so its a guess :) Anyways, advice would be helpful. I've googled the topic multiple times and have found many "becareful when working with acid topics". I understand that this probably means I should be a chemist before playing with acid :) However, considering that I am using the HCl with the proper safety equipment (as directed from many different sources), it would be nice to find more advice on how to properly clean quartz minerals with HCl. I've tried 27% HCl at 100%, and a 50:50 mix with distilled water. I also have my baking-soda/distilled water rinse mix ready. Still, the yellow staining has occurred at least once in every batch I've tried. Sincerely, slightly frustrated From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Sep 16 03:32:32 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Sep 16 03:33:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes In-Reply-To: <48aa46800809160048r53a278b0i3469253a0ae61569@mail.gmail.com> References: <48aa46800809160048r53a278b0i3469253a0ae61569@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003601c917e7$87616100$96242300$@com> Iron is probably responsible for the yellowing. Thoroughly wash and soak the yellowed specimens in baking soda, then in water which you change frequently, then soak in oxalic acid or iron out, followed by another round of neutralizing and soaking. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Stiff Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:48 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes I have been cleaning Lolo smoky quartz specimens and Challis volcanic agates/geodes using muriatic acid. The results have been mixed. Sometimes the specimens come out beautifully, while other times I end up with a yellow staining. I've tried re-bathing the specimens in muriatic, and again, sometimes this helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its really bizarre to me as I can't pin-point any concrete similarities as to why the staining occurs. My best guess is that depending on what's reacting in the load I am washing, perhaps the temperature in the specimen's matrix increases enough with the reaction to allow acid to permeate the specimen? I would assume then, when the acidic reaction stops, HCl is trapped inside the specimen causing yellow staining? I am no chemist so its a guess :) Anyways, advice would be helpful. I've googled the topic multiple times and have found many "becareful when working with acid topics". I understand that this probably means I should be a chemist before playing with acid :) However, considering that I am using the HCl with the proper safety equipment (as directed from many different sources), it would be nice to find more advice on how to properly clean quartz minerals with HCl. I've tried 27% HCl at 100%, and a 50:50 mix with distilled water. I also have my baking-soda/distilled water rinse mix ready. Still, the yellow staining has occurred at least once in every batch I've tried. Sincerely, slightly frustrated -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Sep 16 04:08:29 2008 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Sep 16 04:08:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes References: <48aa46800809160048r53a278b0i3469253a0ae61569@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001b01c917ec$8cee7bd0$6500a8c0@TheBlackAdder> I've found by experience it's all about how well you rinse the piece. By "rinse" I mean a long soak. There are tiny cracks and crevasses where the acid is trapped. As the piece dries, the acid creeps out. This is true whether I've used acid or Iron Out which is vastly superior to HCL or oxalic acid for removing rust stains. Large specimens I've soaked for 2 days in a bucket, changing the water at least every 12 hours; more often if you can. Recently I was surprised that a large piece of native copper I cleaned needed an overnight soak in fresh water to prevent a color change after it dried. I wouldn't think native copper could retain some chemical residue even after distilled water cleaning in an ultrasound tank, but the overninght soak cured the problem. Add a few drops of 'Joy' liquid detergent to the rinse water. It lowers surface tension and allows the rinse water to penetrate tiny cracks. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Joshua Stiff To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes I have been cleaning Lolo smoky quartz specimens and Challis volcanic agates/geodes using muriatic acid. The results have been mixed. Sometimes the specimens come out beautifully, while other times I end up with a yellow staining. I've tried re-bathing the specimens in muriatic, and again, sometimes this helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its really bizarre to me as I can't pin-point any concrete similarities as to why the staining occurs. My best guess is that depending on what's reacting in the load I am washing, perhaps the temperature in the specimen's matrix increases enough with the reaction to allow acid to permeate the specimen? I would assume then, when the acidic reaction stops, HCl is trapped inside the specimen causing yellow staining? I am no chemist so its a guess :) Anyways, advice would be helpful. I've googled the topic multiple times and have found many "becareful when working with acid topics". I understand that this probably means I should be a chemist before playing with acid :) However, considering that I am using the HCl with the proper safety equipment (as directed from many different sources), it would be nice to find more advice on how to properly clean quartz minerals with HCl. I've tried 27% HCl at 100%, and a 50:50 mix with distilled water. I also have my baking-soda/distilled water rinse mix ready. Still, the yellow staining has occurred at least once in every batch I've tried. Sincerely, slightly frustrated -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 16 08:32:51 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 16 08:32:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites In-Reply-To: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> References: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: I get some from a friend in Australia occasionally. They are small hollow tubes. The last one he send was poorly wrapped and broken. They are pretty fragile. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Stanley Date: Monday, September 15, 2008 14:30 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > I have collected Fulgurites for a few years now. > Personally finding them is very difficult if not impossible in > the area that I live. The best indicator is burned > vegetation and melted and disturbed soil. The problem is > that after a few weeks the vegetation has regrown and covered > the ground again hiding any evidence of the melt. > > I have had better luck by work of mouth, and information from > other collectors. > > There appears to be a better chance of a Fulgurite being created > when the lightning directly strikes the ground. I expect > that if it hits a tree, utility pole or building it looses > energy that is needed to make the melt. One thing I have > seen is that there are few things that are typical about > lightning. It is very unpredictable. > > There are some differences between true Fulgurites that have > been created by lightning and those that result from downed > hydro lines (hydro melts). With lightning, the energy is > in hundreds and thousands of kilovolts, downed hydro lines are > in thousands of volts. They can look very > similar, but if you examine the glass as polished thin sections, > the lightning melts show a far greater level of melt of the host > soil or sand. Hydro melts typically will still have > fragments of some of the original silicates mixed in the > glass. All are melted soil and rock, but they should be > represented as lightning created or man induced. > > Check out the following: http://www.turnstone.ca/fulgur.htm > http://www.turnstone.ca/silicide.htm > > The largest hydro melt that I have excavated was about 3 metres > in length, it was from a 3000 volt line that discharged through > a residential TV tower for about 3 hours. I had to wait a > couple of days for it to cool enough to dig. While its > size was similar to lightning fulgurites, it was a mass of > hundreds of small branches coming off of the main mass. > True Fulgurites typically are a single large branch, or several > large branches, that tapers down in size and have only a few > small branches exiting off. > > The Fulgurites from the Sahara Desert that are offered on Ebay > and at shows are quite often 1 to 20 cm long and less than 2 cm > in diameter. I have a number of examples from all > over North America that range in length from 10 to 60 cm and > have diameters of 3 to 22 cm. Some have come from Ebay, some > from shows and a very few have been self collected. The > question I have is why are those from the Sahara Desert area so > much smaller? > > > Mark Stanley > Norwood, Ontario, Canada > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Sep 16 10:17:06 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 16 10:17:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> Message-ID: <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> It's been interesting to read everyone's comments about fulgurites; I've just been catching up on my Rockhounds email, after being very tied up with the Denver Show, a preceding mineralogical conference in Golden, and having been away visiting my family in New Hampshire the week before that. You bet, lechatlierite is for sure a mineraloid.? The name is "traditionally" mentioned in mineralogy books, but it definitely is not found in sources such as the Glossary of Mineral Species, which only list bona fide approved mineral species.? Lechatlierite occurs in fulgurites, and has also been recognized in some impact-deformed rocks, subject to intense pressure and temperature.? A somewhat analogous term is maskelynite, which is glassy (melted) plagioclase feldspar from shock impact, known from some meteorites and (according to Mindat.org) from at least one terrestrial impact structure.? I don't know if there is another such name, for melted potassium feldspar. I've been interested to read people's comments about searching for, and finding, fulgurites.? I've always considered that they are quite uncommon and very hard to find, and, like meteorites, I think almost all have been found by accident, not by anyone's systematic searching.? (That statement used to be true for meteorites but no longer really as, in view of the large number that have been found in Antarctica, as well as in the Sahara.) Something that I have puzzled over, is, what proportion of lightning strikes, actually produce fulgurites?? I'm not sure that anyone really knows this; there are thousands of lightning strikes every day, worldwide; but I'm not sure if anyone knows if it does or doesn't take special conditions of soil/sand type, moisture, etc., to make a fulgurite.? It's likely that in many instances, the lightning discharge may travel first through other material (such as trees and tree roots) down into the ground before it begins to melt sand and form a fulgurite, so many fulgurite may be "hidden" underground, and would not be found or noticed unless someone excavated in the right spot where there had been a lightning strike. Likewise a puzzle--and we have talked about this before on this List--is how common it is for lightning strikes on rock outcrops, to produce a fulgurite.? One always reads "anecdotally" that there exist melted patches on rocks near mountain summits where lightning has struck, but I am still not sure that I have ever actually seen a picture of such a thing (much less see one in person), or read any definitive documentation that ANYWAY has ever really seen such a thing.? My suspicious is that most lightning strikes on mountains, if they do not hit trees, go to the crevices between rocks where moist soil is likely to be more conductive, and that any melted rock that forms, may be in the form of rock fragments contained in the soil down beside or in cracks within bedrock.? The closest I've seen is one specimen, in Kreigh's collection, of a small piece of granite "from the Colorado mountains" partially melted by lightning; but I don't believe the source of his specimen had provided any specific information of how/what/where this actually occurred.? A few years ago, some collectors brought a large fulgurite specimen to the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, from a lightning strike on a ridge high above Boulder Canyon, in Colorado (the Museum subsequently acquired the specimen); it was from a lightning strike I believe at a tree stump, and the fulgurite was excavated by digging out the crevices between and beneath the rocks around it; I don't think any actual melted rock was observed on exposed rock surfaces. Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: kugeln@peoplepc.com To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 6:17 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. The glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete Modreski, correct me if I'm wrong.? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" ? To: ? Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:19 AM? Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites? ? > Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started > to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live in > New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect them > any info would be great thanks bob.? >? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Tue Sep 16 10:37:48 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Tue Sep 16 10:41:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Pete, Years ago I collected some rock fulgurites from the summit area of Humphrey's Peak near Flagstaff. Melted andesite, mostly. In some areas you can see where the molten skin of rock forms "tendrils" that obviously followed little streams of water as they flowed on the rock -- that is, the fulgurites follow drainageways as the rock first starts to become wet during a rainstorm, and then lightning hits the rock. Pretty neat to see these pathways. There are some nice photos of rock fulgurites on the web, too. Cheers- Earl On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:17:06 -0400, wrote: > It's been interesting to read everyone's comments about fulgurites; I've > just been catching up on my Rockhounds email, after being very tied up > with the Denver Show, a preceding mineralogical conference in Golden, and > having been away visiting my family in New Hampshire the week before that. > > You bet, lechatlierite is for sure a mineraloid.? The name is > "traditionally" mentioned in mineralogy books, but it definitely is not > found in sources such as the Glossary of Mineral Species, which only list > bona fide approved mineral species.? Lechatlierite occurs in fulgurites, > and has also been recognized in some impact-deformed rocks, subject to > intense pressure and temperature.? A somewhat analogous term is > maskelynite, which is glassy (melted) plagioclase feldspar from shock > impact, known from some meteorites and (according to Mindat.org) from at > least one terrestrial impact structure.? I don't know if there is another > such name, for melted potassium feldspar. > > I've been interested to read people's comments about searching for, and > finding, fulgurites.? I've always considered that they are quite uncommon > and very hard to find, and, like meteorites, I think almost all have been > found by accident, not by anyone's systematic searching.? (That statement > used to be true for meteorites but no longer really as, in view of the > large number that have been found in Antarctica, as well as in the > Sahara.) > > Something that I have puzzled over, is, what proportion of lightning > strikes, actually produce fulgurites?? I'm not sure that anyone really > knows this; there are thousands of lightning strikes every day, worldwide; > but I'm not sure if anyone knows if it does or doesn't take special > conditions of soil/sand type, moisture, etc., to make a fulgurite.? It's > likely that in many instances, the lightning discharge may travel first > through other material (such as trees and tree roots) down into the ground > before it begins to melt sand and form a fulgurite, so many fulgurite may > be "hidden" underground, and would not be found or noticed unless someone > excavated in the right spot where there had been a lightning strike. > > Likewise a puzzle--and we have talked about this before on this List--is > how common it is for lightning strikes on rock outcrops, to produce a > fulgurite.? One always reads "anecdotally" that there exist melted patches > on rocks near mountain summits where lightning has struck, but I am still > not sure that I have ever actually seen a picture of such a thing (much > less see one in person), or read any definitive documentation that ANYWAY > has ever really seen such a thing.? My suspicious is that most lightning > strikes on mountains, if they do not hit trees, go to the crevices between > rocks where moist soil is likely to be more conductive, and that any melted > rock that forms, may be in the form of rock fragments contained in the soil > down beside or in cracks within bedrock.? The closest I've seen is one > specimen, in Kreigh's collection, of a small piece of granite "from the > Colorado mountains" partially melted by lightning; but I don't believe the > source of his specimen had provid! > ed any specific information of how/what/where this actually occurred.? A > few years ago, some collectors brought a large fulgurite specimen to the > Denver Museum of Nature & Science, from a lightning strike on a ridge high > above Boulder Canyon, in Colorado (the Museum subsequently acquired the > specimen); it was from a lightning strike I believe at a tree stump, and > the fulgurite was excavated by digging out the crevices between and > beneath the rocks around it; I don't think any actual melted rock was > observed on exposed rock surfaces. > > Pete Modreski > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kugeln@peoplepc.com > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 6:17 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > > Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. The > glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete Modreski, correct me if I'm wrong.? > ? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" > ? > To: ? > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:19 AM? > Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites? > ? >> Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just started >> to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for them.I live > in > New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good area to collect > them > any info would be great thanks bob.? >>? > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Sep 16 11:34:01 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 16 11:34:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAE641EC1DF849-1774-3CB@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> You're right, Earl, there are lots* of rock fulgurite pictures posted on the www; and I think I do remember you telling us before, about those you had seen on Humphrey's Peak. *Well, maybe not "lots".? When I Google "rock fulgurites" images, a lot of pictures come up, but most of these are still of regular (sand) fulgurites.? I think I only see two bona fide rock fulgurites pictures there online; one of a melted patch on rhyolite from Shastina, California (posted?on geology.about.com), and another of a thin melted tube on the surface of quartzite from Mt. Raymond, Wasatch Range, Utah, posted as an article by the Utah Geological Survey.? I really don't think that any of the other pictures that came up, are actually fulgurites on or in rock.? The Utah article notes that, "Some of the rock fulgurites, such as those found on Mount Timpanogos, are the result of human activity (a steel shelter placed on top of the peak attracts lightning)." I think a real "rock fulgurite" is still a pretty rare bird. Earl, if you ever "dig up" those specimens you collected in AZ, I'd love to see you post a picture of them! Pete -----Original Message----- From: Earl R. Verbeek To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:37 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Hi Pete, Years ago I collected some rock fulgurites from the summit area of Humphrey's Peak near Flagstaff. Melted andesite, mostly. In some areas you can see where the molten skin of rock forms "tendrils" that obviously followed little streams of water as they flowed on the rock -- that is, the fulgurites follow drainageways as the rock first starts to become wet during a rainstorm, and then lightning hits the rock. Pretty neat to see these pathways. There are some nice photos of rock fulgurites on the web, too. Cheers- Earl --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Tue Sep 16 12:04:07 2008 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Tue Sep 16 12:04:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites In-Reply-To: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> Rock fulgurites. Try this one: www.notjustrocks.com. Good photos there of fulgurites on a concrete sidewalk, plus at least one photo, if I remember correctly, of a rock fulgurite. Also GREAT photos of "conventional" fulgurites being excavated in the desert. Exciting stuff. Cheers- Earl From jcstiff at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 12:54:38 2008 From: jcstiff at gmail.com (Joshua Stiff) Date: Tue Sep 16 12:54:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz and geodes In-Reply-To: <001b01c917ec$8cee7bd0$6500a8c0@TheBlackAdder> References: <48aa46800809160048r53a278b0i3469253a0ae61569@mail.gmail.com> <001b01c917ec$8cee7bd0$6500a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <48aa46800809161254s775fa59eu1302bfe2ab2db6b2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the advice! I am happy to hear that it sounds like the staining can be removed with time and water. I'll try re-soaking the specimens in a baking soda rinse for a day. And then let them hang-out in a bucket for a week or so, changing the water frequently. I also have a large patio area, so I may attempt washing the specimens, letting them dry in the sun, and then repeating the process. I'll have to try that Super Iron Out as well. I've heard lots of people talking about it. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 16 12:57:53 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:00:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for close-up work. Larry Rush From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:27:32 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:27:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> Message-ID: Thinkgeek.com has a couple of different ones. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 15:57, Lawrence Rush wrote: > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB > port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video > (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for > capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X > for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera > technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for > close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From marksev at cox.net Tue Sep 16 13:30:38 2008 From: marksev at cox.net (Mark Severns) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:30:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> Message-ID: <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Greetings everyone, I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. Mark in Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB > port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a > video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these > for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up > to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital > camera technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera > altogether for close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From VevaBailey at aol.com Tue Sep 16 13:35:32 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:41:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes Message-ID: Hello List, I have used my scanners to photo jewelry and the pictures come out beautiful and a lot better than my camera. Veva In a message dated 9/16/2008 1:31:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, marksev@cox.net writes: Greetings everyone, I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. Mark in Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB > port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a > video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these > for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up > to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital > camera technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera > altogether for close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:35:35 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:41:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 16 13:45:43 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:48:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e><9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush><635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: I don't mean to squelch the thread on scanners, please keep it going. But, I am specifically interested in the USB microscope for micros or small specimens. The advantage is the magnification and focal ability. Anyone ever tried it? Larry ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a >> video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to >> 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From VevaBailey at aol.com Tue Sep 16 13:52:07 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:52:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes Message-ID: Try it!! It works! I have used it for taking pictures of earrings, pendants, bracelets, etc. The newer scanners with lift up the lid to 6 inches. I have done this to copy items from text books. And, I use my newer scanner to make prints from large black and white negatives and well as colored negatives. Since I have over 1000 negatives this is cheaper than trying to get a shop to it. Veva In a message dated 9/16/2008 1:42:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, codeburner@gmail.com writes: The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Tue Sep 16 14:00:32 2008 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Tue Sep 16 13:55:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: <0CEE5A44-CA98-41C8-B24B-F98BC9F0EF12@verizon.net> Although I've personally not tried these scopes, I have seen output from them. The photos are very grainy due to the poor optics. C On Sep 16, 2008, at 4:35 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on > scanners > is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better > than a > camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of > course. the > lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. > > BK > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > >> Greetings everyone, >> I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images >> work out >> well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member >> can share >> their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. >> Mark in Arizona >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < >> larryrush@worldnet.att.net> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes >> >> >> We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via >> a USB >>> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can >>> do a video >>> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these >>> for >>> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go >>> up to 200X >>> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital >>> camera >>> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera >>> altogether for >>> close-up work. >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > > "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it > fills the > horizon." > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Sep 16 15:58:27 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Sep 16 16:04:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: USB microscopes Message-ID: (Forwarded from Richard Hill to the list.......) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Hill" To: "Lawrence Rush" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: USB microscopes > > Larry, > > For some reason my service provider here at U/Az will not let me post to > drizzle.com. > > I have a small webpage of results with a USB microscope at: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/fossil/QX3.html > > One of the secrets to getting better images with any such microscope is > to take a few images (if you have the ability to output AVI then a few > hundred) and coadd them. This reduces noise thus improving the > signal-to-noise (S/N) of the result. With AVIs you can co-add with a > program like Registax very easily. That program will also take > JPEG/FITS/BMP/GIF/TIFF/PNG and several other formats. It's a free > program available at: http://www.astronomie.be/registax/ and has been > widely used in astronomy. > > To make large mosaics from your small images you can use a program like > iMerge available at: > http://www.geocities.com/jgroveuk/iMerge.html > > I use both of these extensively. > > Since I cannot post, feel free to promulgate this. > > -Rik > > > From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Sep 16 16:07:23 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Sep 16 16:07:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: <001501c91850$fac562e0$f05028a0$@com> This is THE budget scope for paleo applications. You can get a USB video adapter that exactly fits it. Don't be fooled by cheapo optics, they are cheap for a darn good reason, that being, they are practically useless. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:36 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Sep 16 16:13:23 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Sep 16 16:18:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: <001901c91851$d1996b40$74cc41c0$@com> DOH! A link would be nice... http://tinyurl.com/6gpv3x This is THE budget scope for paleo applications. You can get a USB video adapter that exactly fits it. Don't be fooled by cheapo optics, they are cheap for a darn good reason, that being, they are practically useless. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:36 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From marksigouin at verizon.net Tue Sep 16 18:55:28 2008 From: marksigouin at verizon.net (Mark Sigouin) Date: Tue Sep 16 18:54:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A5D82B759734ECCB2A3DB68D3C8D7A3@MarkPC> Veva, Can you send an example of your work. And say what brand and model you used. It seems that some folks have had success and others have not. Basically, are we talking the same equipment? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes Try it!! It works! I have used it for taking pictures of earrings, pendants, bracelets, etc. The newer scanners with lift up the lid to 6 inches. I have done this to copy items from text books. And, I use my newer scanner to make prints from large black and white negatives and well as colored negatives. Since I have over 1000 negatives this is cheaper than trying to get a shop to it. Veva In a message dated 9/16/2008 1:42:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, codeburner@gmail.com writes: The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether >> for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 16 19:55:58 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 16 19:57:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: <276A1BBF-8464-11DD-B759-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> My scanner gives great images of specimens. I can crop what is scanned and crank up the DPI to get enlargements with reasonable file sizes. Depth of field is an issue. My scanner only goes to about 1 cm. The background, and edge contrast, is lousy if the specimen in more than 2-3 cm tall. You have to be careful to not scratch the glass scanning surface as you place the specimen or remove it. You might want to consider covering the glass with better quality clear plastic wrap like I do. Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 16:30 America/Detroit, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work > out well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member > can share their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for > images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > >> We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a >> USB port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can >> do a video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one >> of these for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as >> able to go up to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could >> simplify the digital camera technical and expertise problems by >> eliminating the camera altogether for close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 20:02:48 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Sep 16 20:02:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> Message-ID: Larry, Joe Mulvey has done some research on this for the New England Micromounters. He got some of the inexpensive units to look at for use at club meetings. The bottom line is that they were worthless for looking at micros. The resolution was poor so that the images were grainy and the optics did not focus properly. I know that Joe is on this list so maybe my post will lead him to provide more details. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB > port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video > (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for > capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X > for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera > technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for > close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 16 20:10:05 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 16 20:10:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> Message-ID: <20346C77-8466-11DD-B759-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Larry, I have not seen any USB cameras that provided decent picture quality. A secret about digital cameras. You can place just about any hand lens or microscope directly onto the camera lens and take good micro pictures, provided the hand lens or microscope is focused. Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 15:57 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a > USB port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can > do a video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of > these for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able > to go up to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify > the digital camera technical and expertise problems by eliminating the > camera altogether for close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Wed Sep 17 03:35:34 2008 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Sep 17 05:05:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites References: <005701c91760$2fd29940$1b41d0d8@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <000201c918bd$9e736ce0$474fd0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi List, Latching on to this interesting subject, a few observations from South Africa. The only place I am aware of in South Africa where fulgurites have been found is at Witsand (Enlish translation "white sand"):and Brulsand (English translation 'roaring sand") which is situated north-west of Postmasburg in the Northern Cape. The first time I visited this area as a few days before our Easter GEMBOREE in 1967. We visited the area as two families-and camped out there in the desert.The following morning, (before breakfast), my mate Dieter and I were taken out into the dunes to look for these fulgurites. We found quite a few small ones in the red desert sand until lo and behold I found a larger one sticking vertically out of the sand for about 100 mm. Careful digging, eventually yielded a fulgurie about 300 mm long, solid and about 10 mm across edges. Careful packing eventually saw this specimen land safely here at home to take pride of place in my only showcase I had at that time. Unfortunately, whilst moving my collection from the house to an outdwelling (which I had converted into my "rock study"), it broke into three pieces. These were then "repaired" with glue, but have subsequently been "lost" when moving my collection into the cellar, which became my "rock study" in 1975. Subsequent visits in May 1973 and October 2005 did not yield any finds, despite looking all over for close on two hours.In 1973, I did manage to purchase a lot of smaller ones from a local inhabitant. These ranged in size from 25 to 10 mm, some hollow tubes, others were again solid. It appears that they are not that plentiful theses days as in the halycon days of the late sixties The enigma of the "roaring dunes" has been ascribed to the uniform roundness of the sand grains. It is also said to only "roar'' during the months containg the letter"r". How true this is I don't know. Horst --- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites >I get some from a friend in Australia occasionally. They are small hollow >tubes. The last one he send was poorly wrapped and broken. They are pretty >fragile. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Stanley > Date: Monday, September 15, 2008 14:30 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re. Fulgurites > To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> I have collected Fulgurites for a few years now. >> Personally finding them is very difficult if not impossible in >> the area that I live. The best indicator is burned >> vegetation and melted and disturbed soil. The problem is >> that after a few weeks the vegetation has regrown and covered >> the ground again hiding any evidence of the melt. >> >> I have had better luck by work of mouth, and information from >> other collectors. >> >> There appears to be a better chance of a Fulgurite being created >> when the lightning directly strikes the ground. I expect >> that if it hits a tree, utility pole or building it looses >> energy that is needed to make the melt. One thing I have >> seen is that there are few things that are typical about >> lightning. It is very unpredictable. >> >> There are some differences between true Fulgurites that have >> been created by lightning and those that result from downed >> hydro lines (hydro melts). With lightning, the energy is >> in hundreds and thousands of kilovolts, downed hydro lines are >> in thousands of volts. They can look very >> similar, but if you examine the glass as polished thin sections, >> the lightning melts show a far greater level of melt of the host >> soil or sand. Hydro melts typically will still have >> fragments of some of the original silicates mixed in the >> glass. All are melted soil and rock, but they should be >> represented as lightning created or man induced. >> >> Check out the following: http://www.turnstone.ca/fulgur.htm >> http://www.turnstone.ca/silicide.htm >> >> The largest hydro melt that I have excavated was about 3 metres >> in length, it was from a 3000 volt line that discharged through >> a residential TV tower for about 3 hours. I had to wait a >> couple of days for it to cool enough to dig. While its >> size was similar to lightning fulgurites, it was a mass of >> hundreds of small branches coming off of the main mass. >> True Fulgurites typically are a single large branch, or several >> large branches, that tapers down in size and have only a few >> small branches exiting off. >> >> The Fulgurites from the Sahara Desert that are offered on Ebay >> and at shows are quite often 1 to 20 cm long and less than 2 cm >> in diameter. I have a number of examples from all >> over North America that range in length from 10 to 60 cm and >> have diameters of 3 to 22 cm. Some have come from Ebay, some >> from shows and a very few have been self collected. The >> question I have is why are those from the Sahara Desert area so >> much smaller? >> >> >> Mark Stanley >> Norwood, Ontario, Canada >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1671 - Release Date: 9/14/2008 7:16 AM From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Sep 17 05:15:29 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Sep 17 05:16:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <276A1BBF-8464-11DD-B759-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> <276A1BBF-8464-11DD-B759-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000001c918bf$1343f250$39cbd6f0$@com> I cover it with clear report covers from Office Depot :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:56 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes My scanner gives great images of specimens. I can crop what is scanned and crank up the DPI to get enlargements with reasonable file sizes. Depth of field is an issue. My scanner only goes to about 1 cm. The background, and edge contrast, is lousy if the specimen in more than 2-3 cm tall. You have to be careful to not scratch the glass scanning surface as you place the specimen or remove it. You might want to consider covering the glass with better quality clear plastic wrap like I do. Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 16:30 America/Detroit, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work > out well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member > can share their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for > images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > >> We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a >> USB port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can >> do a video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one >> of these for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as >> able to go up to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could >> simplify the digital camera technical and expertise problems by >> eliminating the camera altogether for close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 05:52:26 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 17 05:55:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Got Fluorite? Message-ID: This is an invitation to anyone on the Rockhounds mailing list to join a Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to Marion, KY over the Columbus Day weekend (Oct 11th to 13th). We will be collecting at the Eureka, Columbia and Mary Belle mines near Marion, KY with the permission of the Ben Clement Mineral Museum. This is different from the museum's monthly schedule of trips in that they will be doing some special excavating for us at a location near the Eureka Mine that we identified as promising during our trip their last year (I took out 20 decent fluorite specimens within 6" of the surface). There will be a fee to help cover the costs of the excavation in addition to the museums normal $20/day/bucket collecting fee. All proceeds from this special fieldtrip will go to support the museum - a very worthwhile cause! This will be my 5th trip to Marion, KY and I will be driving 1200 miles one way to get there. That alone should be enough to tell you that I think the collecting will be worthwhile. Trip attendees will also be given directions to some Indiana geode localities as well as KY and IN fossil localities that can be visited either on the way out or on the way home. Some of our members will be flying out for this. Southwest Airlines (2 checked bags free) flys into Nashville, TN which is about 2.5 hours drive south of Marion, KY. I have done this twice and it is a reasonable way to go. Those of us who drive will have heavy tools to share with those who have luggage constraints. If you have any interest in this trip please email me off list and I will provide you with the complete details. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 17 07:43:44 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Sep 17 07:43:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <433847.87542.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> An overhead projector with digital output also works. The depth of field is probably a little better than a scanner. We have one in the classroom where our Mineralogy/Micromount study group meets, and we have used it to display micros on the screen in real time without having to take a photo through a scope and then project it. Jim --- On Tue, 9/16/08, VevaBailey@aol.com wrote: From: VevaBailey@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 1:52 PM Try it!! It works! I have used it for taking pictures of earrings, pendants, bracelets, etc. The newer scanners with lift up the lid to 6 inches. I have done this to copy items from text books. And, I use my newer scanner to make prints from large black and white negatives and well as colored negatives. Since I have over 1000 negatives this is cheaper than trying to get a shop to it. Veva In a message dated 9/16/2008 1:42:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, codeburner@gmail.com writes: The specimen would have to be fairly small as the depth of field on scanners is only a centimeter or two. I don't know why that would be better than a camera and macro lens unless you have a scanner and no camera of course. the lighting on a scanner would be 'flat' to say the least. BK On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 16:30, Mark Severns wrote: > Greetings everyone, > I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out > well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share > their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. > Mark in Arizona > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > > > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB >> port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a video >> (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these for >> capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up to 200X >> for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital camera >> technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera altogether for >> close-up work. >> >> Larry Rush >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Sep 17 09:25:13 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Sep 17 09:36:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> References: <5994F78DCA9348B7A1D02F2DB605AC93@sterling88d31e> <9490EFE3A94245E5B8AC88CE90BC31EB@LarryRush> <635F1621F9824B8EA1C906D9BF82523E@markA86DE9A744> Message-ID: <000001c918e1$f745e130$e5d1a390$@dillen@skynet.be> A high resolution scanner works fine, and has an unexpectedly good depth of focus. On the other hand you don't have the lighting in your hands. Secondly, make sure to use a transparent foil or so on the glass plate of the scanner, or it will be scratched from the first time. Results are fine for relatively flat samples that you can put top-down (don't even think of photographing an okenite specimen that way), with dimensions of at least a few cm. It wouldn't work for micromounts because of lack of resolution for such a small surface. It is perfect for imaging polished slabs, jewelry etc. I used my scanner already several times for that purpose, with good, but not splendid results. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mark Severns Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:31 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes Greetings everyone, I have not practiced it to date but i hear that scanner images work out well for smaller rocks and minerals and jewelry. Maybe a member can share their successes and any challanges in using a scanner for images. Mark in Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] USB microscopes > We have probably all seen the microscopes that plug into a PC via a USB > port that are now used for medical and dental purposes. They can do a > video (avi) or a still (gif/bmp) format. Has any one tried one of these > for capturing micro-mount pictures? They are advertised as able to go up > to 200X for as little as $100. If it works, it could simplify the digital > camera technical and expertise problems by eliminating the camera > altogether for close-up work. > > Larry Rush > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Sep 17 09:25:13 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Sep 17 09:36:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000101c918e1$f7c438f0$e74caad0$@dillen@skynet.be> If anyone is interested : Prof Ren? Van Tassel (does "vantasselite", an aluminium phosphate mineral, ring a bell ?), who is still an active member of our mineral club, wrote an article on fulgurites for our magazine Geonieuws in 1999. He described e.g. a fulgurite that was completely dug out in the Belgian locality Zutendaal, with a length of 8.4 m. This fulgurite is now kept in the Belgian Museum of Natural History in Brussels. Het made at that time a list of the most spectacular recovered fulgurites he could trace with certainty : Table : recovered fulgurites with a length of 3.4 m and more. 1 Forster Pit, S.-Carolina, USA J.J. Petty, 1936 60 ft 18 m 2 Rome, New York, USA C. West, 1843 50 ft 15 m 3 Hergenrath II, Eupen, Belgi? J.H. Willems, 1961 13 m 4 Drigg, Cumberland, UK E.L. Irton, 1814 30 ft 9 m 5 S.-Carolina, USA J.J. Petty, 1936 20-30 ft 6-9 m 6 Zutendaal, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1958 8.4 m (*) 7 Zonhoven II, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1955 7.5 m (*) 8 Hergenrath II, Eupen, Belgi? J.H. Willems, 1964 7 m 9 Ludlington, Michigan, USA G. Monk, 1941 7 m 10 Macclesfield, UK Sainter, 1865 6.5 m 11 Massel, Schleswig, Duitsland L.D. Hermann, 1711 20 Fusz 5.7 m 12 Neu-Moresnet, Eupen, Belgi? P.C.R. Rademakers, 1963 5.8 m 13 New Jersey, USA W.L. Barrows, 1910 19 ft 5.8 m 14 Zonhoven I, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1955 5 m 15 Westerhaar, Overijsel, Nederland H. Krul, 1954 5 m (**) 16 Bantelge, M?nster, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1817 15 par. Fusz 4.9 m 17 Starke, Florida, USA F.W. Wright Jr., 1999 16 ft 4.9 m 18 Dresden, Saksen, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1822 8 L. el 53/4 Zoll 4.8 m 19 Dresden, Saksen, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1851 4.8 m (*)(***) 20 Guteborn, Saksen, Duitsland W. Fisher, 1926 4.6 m 21 Sennerheide, Paderborn, Duitsland O. Suffert, 1951 ; H. Krul, 1954 4.6 m (*) 22 Stanton Co., Nebraska, USA E.H. Barbour, 1925 10-15 ft 3 - 4.5 m 23 Bantelge, M?nster, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1817 13 par. Fusz 4.3 m 24 Starke, Florida, USA F.W. Wright Jr., 1999 14 ft 4.3 m 25 Sennerheide, Paderborn, Duitsland O. Suffert, 1951 ; H. Krul, 1954 4.3 m (*) 26 Hulshorst, Veluwe, Gelderland, NL N. Tinbergen, 1942 3.5 m (*) 27 Massel, Schleswig, Duitsland L.D. Hermann, 1711 6 Sachs. El 3.4 m And here is his literature list (mostly in Dutch, German and French) : BECKERS H.J. (1955), "Bliksembuizen", Grondboor en hamer, 65-67. DARTEVELLE E. (1942), "Les fulgurites", Ciel et Terre, 180-187. DARTEVELLE E. (1945), "Fulgurites de Belgique", Bull. soc. belge G?ol., 54, 254-257. GAINES R.V., SKINNER H.C.W., FOORD E.E., MASON B. en ROSENZWEIG A. (1997), "Dana's New Mineralogy", Wiley, 8th edition. HACQAERT A., (1939), "Een fulguriet uit de Limburgse Kempen", Natuurw. Tijdschr., 21, 3-6. HARTING M.P. (1874), "Notice sur un cas de formation de fulgurites et sur la pr?sence d'autres fulgurites dans le sol de la N?erlande", Natuurk. Verh. kon. Acad., 14, 22 blz. KRUL H. (1954), "Blitzr?hrenfunde in Holland", Der Aufschluss, 5(6), 113-115. LACROIX A. (1915), "La silice fondue consid?r?e comme min?ral (lechateli?rite)", Bull. soc. fran?. Mineral., 38, 182-186. LACROIX A. (1915), "Sur les fulgurites exclusivement silicieuses du Sahara oriental et sur quelques fulgurites silicat?es des Pyr?n?es", Bull. soc. fran?. Miner., 38, 188-198. PITTOORS P. (1968) "Bliksembuizen. Heemkundig handboekje voor de Antwerpse randgemeenten", 16(1), 15-21. PORADA G.M. en WITTIG R. (1975), "Geologische Wirkung von Blizeinschl?gen", Natur und Mus., 105(8), 229-244. RADEMAKERS P.C.M. (1963), "De bliksembuis van de K?skorb", Sprekende Bodem, 7(5), 46-50. RODING G.M. (> 1959), "Verglaasde bliksem", De levende natuur, 67-71. RODING G.M. en ZANDSTRA J.G. (1955), "Fossiele bliksems", Grondboor en Hamer, 43-48. TINBERGEN N. (1942), "Een bliksembuis", De levende natuur, 47, 87-92. VAN TASSEL R. (1955), "Fulgurites in situ ? Zonhoven (Limbourg belge)", Meded. kon. Belg.Inst. Natuurw., 34(9), 24 blz. VAN TASSEL R. (1958), "Une fulgurite ramifi?e de Zutendaal, Limbourg belge", Meded. kon. Belg. Inst. Natuurw., 34(7), 8 blz. WILLEMS J.H. (1961), "Een fulguriet te Hergenrath (provincie Luik, Belgi?)", Grondboor en Hamer, 322-332. WILLEMS J.H. (1962), "Een opmerkelijk fulgurietfragment", Jaarb. Nederl. geol. Verenig., 14-16. WILLEMS J.H. (1962), "Een fulguriet te Beek (Limburg)", Grondboor en Hamer, 133-137. WILLEMS J.H. (1964), "De 'fulguriet II' van Hergenrath", Sprekende bodem 8(6), 92-93. WEIGHT F.W., Jr. (1999), "Florida's fantastic fulgurite find", Rocks and Minerals 74(3), 156-159. Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pmodreski@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:17 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites It's been interesting to read everyone's comments about fulgurites; I've just been catching up on my Rockhounds email, after being very tied up with the Denver Show, a preceding mineralogical conference in Golden, and having been away visiting my family in New Hampshire the week before that. You bet, lechatlierite is for sure a mineraloid.? The name is "traditionally" mentioned in mineralogy books, but it definitely is not found in sources such as the Glossary of Mineral Species, which only list bona fide approved mineral species.? Lechatlierite occurs in fulgurites, and has also been recognized in some impact-deformed rocks, subject to intense pressure and temperature.? A somewhat analogous term is maskelynite, which is glassy (melted) plagioclase feldspar from shock impact, known from some meteorites and (according to Mindat.org) from at least one terrestrial impact structure.? I don't know if there is another such name, for melted potassium feldspar. I've been interested to read people's comments about searching for, and finding, fulgurites.? I've always considered that they are quite uncommon and very hard to find, and, like meteorites, I think almost all have been found by accident, not by anyone's systematic searching.? (That statement used to be true for meteorites but no longer really as, in view of the large number that have been found in Antarctica, as well as in the Sahara.) Something that I have puzzled over, is, what proportion of lightning strikes, actually produce fulgurites?? I'm not sure that anyone really knows this; there are thousands of lightning strikes every day, worldwide; but I'm not sure if anyone knows if it does or doesn't take special conditions of soil/sand type, moisture, etc., to make a fulgurite.? It's likely that in many instances, the lightning discharge may travel first through other material (such as trees and tree roots) down into the ground before it begins to melt sand and form a fulgurite, so many fulgurite may be "hidden" underground, and would not be found or noticed unless someone excavated in the right spot where there had been a lightning strike. Likewise a puzzle--and we have talked about this before on this List--is how common it is for lightning strikes on rock outcrops, to produce a fulgurite.? One always reads "anecdotally" that there exist melted patches on rocks near mountain summits where lightning has struck, but I am still not sure that I have ever actually seen a picture of such a thing (much less see one in person), or read any definitive documentation that ANYWAY has ever really seen such a thing.? My suspicious is that most lightning strikes on mountains, if they do not hit trees, go to the crevices between rocks where moist soil is likely to be more conductive, and that any melted rock that forms, may be in the form of rock fragments contained in the soil down beside or in cracks within bedrock.? The closest I've seen is one specimen, in Kreigh's collection, of a small piece of granite "from the Colorado mountains" partially melted by lightning; but I don't believe the source of his specimen had provid! ed any specific information of how/what/where this actually occurred.? A few years ago, some collectors brought a large fulgurite specimen to the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, from a lightning strike on a ridge high above Boulder Canyon, in Colorado (the Museum subsequently acquired the specimen); it was from a lightning strike I believe at a tree stump, and the fulgurite was excavated by digging out the crevices between and beneath the rocks around it; I don't think any actual melted rock was observed on exposed rock surfaces. Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: kugeln@peoplepc.com To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 6:17 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. The glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete Modreski, correct me if I'm wrong.? From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Sep 17 10:06:20 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Sep 17 10:09:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Stamps References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> Message-ID: Using Stamps.com the other week reminded me that I had some old US mineral stamps stuck (no pun intended!) away. I found them, and offer them (free) to any stamp collector on the list who can use them... 2 sets of mineral $.10 stamps (cancelled) 3 sets of mineral $.29 stamps (cancelled) 1 set of mineral $.29 stamps (uncancelled, but marred in storage) Larry Rush From gregaweis at msn.com Wed Sep 17 10:44:50 2008 From: gregaweis at msn.com (GREGORY WEISBROD) Date: Wed Sep 17 10:45:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <000101c918e1$f7c438f0$e74caad0$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <000601c91735$adcdeff0$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> <002601c91791$ab1b2730$c5adf304@JOHN> <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> <000101c918e1$f7c438f0$e74caad0$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: Wow! What a list. Some of the longer ones must have been formed by multiple stikes. > From: rik.dillen@skynet.be> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fulgurites> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:25:13 +0200> > If anyone is interested : Prof Ren? Van Tassel (does "vantasselite", an aluminium phosphate mineral, ring a bell ?), who> is still an active member of our mineral club, wrote an article on fulgurites for our magazine Geonieuws in 1999. He> described e.g. a fulgurite that was completely dug out in the Belgian locality Zutendaal, with a length of 8.4 m. This> fulgurite is now kept in the Belgian Museum of Natural History in Brussels. Het made at that time a list of the most> spectacular recovered fulgurites he could trace with certainty :> > Table : recovered fulgurites with a length of 3.4 m and more.> > 1 Forster Pit, S.-Carolina, USA J.J. Petty, 1936 60 ft 18 m> 2 Rome, New York, USA C. West, 1843 50 ft 15 m> 3 Hergenrath II, Eupen, Belgi? J.H. Willems, 1961 13 m> 4 Drigg, Cumberland, UK E.L. Irton, 1814 30 ft 9 m> 5 S.-Carolina, USA J.J. Petty, 1936 20-30 ft 6-9 m> 6 Zutendaal, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1958 8.4 m (*)> 7 Zonhoven II, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1955 7.5 m (*)> 8 Hergenrath II, Eupen, Belgi? J.H. Willems, 1964 7 m> 9 Ludlington, Michigan, USA G. Monk, 1941 7 m> 10 Macclesfield, UK Sainter, 1865 6.5 m> 11 Massel, Schleswig, Duitsland L.D. Hermann, 1711 20 Fusz 5.7 m> 12 Neu-Moresnet, Eupen, Belgi? P.C.R. Rademakers, 1963 5.8 m> 13 New Jersey, USA W.L. Barrows, 1910 19 ft 5.8 m> 14 Zonhoven I, Limburg, Belgi? R. Van Tassel, 1955 5 m> 15 Westerhaar, Overijsel, Nederland H. Krul, 1954 5 m (**)> 16 Bantelge, M?nster, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1817 15 par. Fusz 4.9 m> 17 Starke, Florida, USA F.W. Wright Jr., 1999 16 ft 4.9 m> 18 Dresden, Saksen, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1822 8 L. el 53/4 Zoll 4.8 m> 19 Dresden, Saksen, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1851 4.8 m (*)(***)> 20 Guteborn, Saksen, Duitsland W. Fisher, 1926 4.6 m> 21 Sennerheide, Paderborn, Duitsland O. Suffert, 1951 ; H. Krul, 1954 4.6 m (*)> 22 Stanton Co., Nebraska, USA E.H. Barbour, 1925 10-15 ft 3 - 4.5 m> 23 Bantelge, M?nster, Duitsland K.G. Fiedler, 1817 13 par. Fusz 4.3 m> 24 Starke, Florida, USA F.W. Wright Jr., 1999 14 ft 4.3 m> 25 Sennerheide, Paderborn, Duitsland O. Suffert, 1951 ; H. Krul, 1954 4.3 m (*)> 26 Hulshorst, Veluwe, Gelderland, NL N. Tinbergen, 1942 3.5 m (*)> 27 Massel, Schleswig, Duitsland L.D. Hermann, 1711 6 Sachs. El 3.4 m> > And here is his literature list (mostly in Dutch, German and French) :> > BECKERS H.J. (1955), "Bliksembuizen", Grondboor en hamer, 65-67.> DARTEVELLE E. (1942), "Les fulgurites", Ciel et Terre, 180-187.> DARTEVELLE E. (1945), "Fulgurites de Belgique", Bull. soc. belge G?ol., 54, 254-257.> GAINES R.V., SKINNER H.C.W., FOORD E.E., MASON B. en ROSENZWEIG A. (1997), "Dana's New Mineralogy", Wiley, 8th edition.> HACQAERT A., (1939), "Een fulguriet uit de Limburgse Kempen", Natuurw. Tijdschr., 21, 3-6.> HARTING M.P. (1874), "Notice sur un cas de formation de fulgurites et sur la pr?sence d'autres fulgurites dans le sol de> la N?erlande", Natuurk. Verh. kon. Acad., 14, 22 blz.> KRUL H. (1954), "Blitzr?hrenfunde in Holland", Der Aufschluss, 5(6), 113-115.> LACROIX A. (1915), "La silice fondue consid?r?e comme min?ral (lechateli?rite)", Bull. soc. fran?. Mineral., 38,> 182-186.> LACROIX A. (1915), "Sur les fulgurites exclusivement silicieuses du Sahara oriental et sur quelques fulgurites> silicat?es des Pyr?n?es", Bull. soc. fran?. Miner., 38, 188-198.> PITTOORS P. (1968) "Bliksembuizen. Heemkundig handboekje voor de Antwerpse randgemeenten", 16(1), 15-21.> PORADA G.M. en WITTIG R. (1975), "Geologische Wirkung von Blizeinschl?gen", Natur und Mus., 105(8), 229-244.> RADEMAKERS P.C.M. (1963), "De bliksembuis van de K?skorb", Sprekende Bodem, 7(5), 46-50.> RODING G.M. (> 1959), "Verglaasde bliksem", De levende natuur, 67-71.> RODING G.M. en ZANDSTRA J.G. (1955), "Fossiele bliksems", Grondboor en Hamer, 43-48.> TINBERGEN N. (1942), "Een bliksembuis", De levende natuur, 47, 87-92.> VAN TASSEL R. (1955), "Fulgurites in situ ? Zonhoven (Limbourg belge)", Meded. kon. Belg.Inst. Natuurw., 34(9), 24 blz.> VAN TASSEL R. (1958), "Une fulgurite ramifi?e de Zutendaal, Limbourg belge", Meded. kon. Belg. Inst. Natuurw., 34(7), 8> blz.> WILLEMS J.H. (1961), "Een fulguriet te Hergenrath (provincie Luik, Belgi?)", Grondboor en Hamer, 322-332.> WILLEMS J.H. (1962), "Een opmerkelijk fulgurietfragment", Jaarb. Nederl. geol. Verenig., 14-16.> WILLEMS J.H. (1962), "Een fulguriet te Beek (Limburg)", Grondboor en Hamer, 133-137.> WILLEMS J.H. (1964), "De 'fulguriet II' van Hergenrath", Sprekende bodem 8(6), 92-93.> WEIGHT F.W., Jr. (1999), "Florida's fantastic fulgurite find", Rocks and Minerals 74(3), 156-159.> > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > > -----Original Message-----> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pmodreski@aol.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:17 PM> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites> > It's been interesting to read everyone's comments about fulgurites; I've just been catching up on my Rockhounds email,> after being very tied up with the Denver Show, a preceding mineralogical conference in Golden, and having been away> visiting my family in New Hampshire the week before that.> > You bet, lechatlierite is for sure a mineraloid.? The name is "traditionally" mentioned in mineralogy books, but it> definitely is not found in sources such as the Glossary of Mineral Species, which only list bona fide approved mineral> species.? Lechatlierite occurs in fulgurites, and has also been recognized in some impact-deformed rocks, subject to> intense pressure and temperature.? A somewhat analogous term is maskelynite, which is glassy (melted) plagioclase> feldspar from shock impact, known from some meteorites and (according to Mindat.org) from at least one terrestrial> impact structure.? I don't know if there is another such name, for melted potassium feldspar.> > I've been interested to read people's comments about searching for, and finding, fulgurites.? I've always considered> that they are quite uncommon and very hard to find, and, like meteorites, I think almost all have been found by> accident, not by anyone's systematic searching.? (That statement used to be true for meteorites but no longer really as,> in view of the large number that have been found in Antarctica, as well as in the Sahara.)> > Something that I have puzzled over, is, what proportion of lightning strikes, actually produce fulgurites?? I'm not sure> that anyone really knows this; there are thousands of lightning strikes every day, worldwide; but I'm not sure if anyone> knows if it does or doesn't take special conditions of soil/sand type, moisture, etc., to make a fulgurite.? It's likely> that in many instances, the lightning discharge may travel first through other material (such as trees and tree roots)> down into the ground before it begins to melt sand and form a fulgurite, so many fulgurite may be "hidden" underground,> and would not be found or noticed unless someone excavated in the right spot where there had been a lightning strike.> > Likewise a puzzle--and we have talked about this before on this List--is how common it is for lightning strikes on rock> outcrops, to produce a fulgurite.? One always reads "anecdotally" that there exist melted patches on rocks near mountain> summits where lightning has struck, but I am still not sure that I have ever actually seen a picture of such a thing> (much less see one in person), or read any definitive documentation that ANYWAY has ever really seen such a thing.? My> suspicious is that most lightning strikes on mountains, if they do not hit trees, go to the crevices between rocks where> moist soil is likely to be more conductive, and that any melted rock that forms, may be in the form of rock fragments> contained in the soil down beside or in cracks within bedrock.? The closest I've seen is one specimen, in Kreigh's> collection, of a small piece of granite "from the Colorado mountains" partially melted by lightning; but I don't believe> the source of his specimen had provid!> ed any specific information of how/what/where this actually occurred.? A few years ago, some collectors brought a large> fulgurite specimen to the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, from a lightning strike on a ridge high above Boulder> Canyon, in Colorado (the Museum subsequently acquired the specimen); it was from a lightning strike I believe at a tree> stump, and the fulgurite was excavated by digging out the crevices between and beneath the rocks around it; I don't> think any actual melted rock was observed on exposed rock surfaces.> > Pete Modreski> > -----Original Message-----> From: kugeln@peoplepc.com> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 6:17 pm> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites> > > Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. The glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete> Modreski, correct me if I'm wrong.?> > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jg81638 at aol.com Wed Sep 17 14:50:50 2008 From: jg81638 at aol.com (jg81638@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 17 14:51:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Stamps In-Reply-To: References: <03A45621B642451CB5879F5FC782C2C0@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CAE72695AEE58C-1710-1565@webmail-ne05.sysops.aol.com> Hi Larry???? I'm interested in those stamps, I don't recall any US mineral stamps in 10c and 29c, details would be appreciated. ? Jim Groves -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 1:06 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Stamps Using Stamps.com the other week reminded me that I had some old US mineral stamps stuck (no pun intended!) away. I found them, and offer them (free) to any stamp collector on the list who can use them...? ? 2 sets of mineral $.10 stamps (cancelled)? 3 sets of mineral $.29 stamps (cancelled)? 1 set of mineral $.29 stamps (uncancelled, but marred in storage)? ? Larry Rush ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 17 18:40:32 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 17 18:40:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites In-Reply-To: <8CAE6372D0D008F-1774-4D@webmail-nb18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I've had five close (between 5 and 68 ft) experiences with lightning. One of them was a strike to a live tree. The steam produced from heating the sap in the struck branch caused it to explode. I suspect this is the fate of most possible fulgerites from lightning strikes. I suspect the proper conditions are a thin wet conductive surface, relatively dry sand under it, and a conductive water table somewhat deeper. The Boston Science Museum has two of the world's largest Van De Graf generators and they put on daily shows of lightning. They also have a great exhibit of fulgurites. I wonder if they could be talked into doing research into making fulgurites (and sell the results in their gift shop)? Kreigh On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 13:17 America/Detroit, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > It's been interesting to read everyone's comments about fulgurites; > I've just been catching up on my Rockhounds email, after being very > tied up with the Denver Show, a preceding mineralogical conference in > Golden, and having been away visiting my family in New Hampshire the > week before that. > > You bet, lechatlierite is for sure a mineraloid.? The name is > "traditionally" mentioned in mineralogy books, but it definitely is > not found in sources such as the Glossary of Mineral Species, which > only list bona fide approved mineral species.? Lechatlierite occurs in > fulgurites, and has also been recognized in some impact-deformed > rocks, subject to intense pressure and temperature.? A somewhat > analogous term is maskelynite, which is glassy (melted) plagioclase > feldspar from shock impact, known from some meteorites and (according > to Mindat.org) from at least one terrestrial impact structure.? I > don't know if there is another such name, for melted potassium > feldspar. > > I've been interested to read people's comments about searching for, > and finding, fulgurites.? I've always considered that they are quite > uncommon and very hard to find, and, like meteorites, I think almost > all have been found by accident, not by anyone's systematic > searching.? (That statement used to be true for meteorites but no > longer really as, in view of the large number that have been found in > Antarctica, as well as in the Sahara.) > > Something that I have puzzled over, is, what proportion of lightning > strikes, actually produce fulgurites?? I'm not sure that anyone really > knows this; there are thousands of lightning strikes every day, > worldwide; but I'm not sure if anyone knows if it does or doesn't take > special conditions of soil/sand type, moisture, etc., to make a > fulgurite.? It's likely that in many instances, the lightning > discharge may travel first through other material (such as trees and > tree roots) down into the ground before it begins to melt sand and > form a fulgurite, so many fulgurite may be "hidden" underground, and > would not be found or noticed unless someone excavated in the right > spot where there had been a lightning strike. > > Likewise a puzzle--and we have talked about this before on this > List--is how common it is for lightning strikes on rock outcrops, to > produce a fulgurite.? One always reads "anecdotally" that there exist > melted patches on rocks near mountain summits where lightning has > struck, but I am still not sure that I have ever actually seen a > picture of such a thing (much less see one in person), or read any > definitive documentation that ANYWAY has ever really seen such a > thing.? My suspicious is that most lightning strikes on mountains, if > they do not hit trees, go to the crevices between rocks where moist > soil is likely to be more conductive, and that any melted rock that > forms, may be in the form of rock fragments contained in the soil down > beside or in cracks within bedrock.? The closest I've seen is one > specimen, in Kreigh's collection, of a small piece of granite "from > the Colorado mountains" partially melted by lightning; but I don't > believe the source of his specimen had provid! > ed any specific information of how/what/where this actually > occurred.? A few years ago, some collectors brought a large fulgurite > specimen to the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, from a lightning > strike on a ridge high above Boulder Canyon, in Colorado (the Museum > subsequently acquired the specimen); it was from a lightning strike I > believe at a tree stump, and the fulgurite was excavated by digging > out the crevices between and beneath the rocks around it; I don't > think any actual melted rock was observed on exposed rock surfaces. > > Pete Modreski > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kugeln@peoplepc.com > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 6:17 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fulgurites > > > Fulgurites are one of the very few mineraloids that are a true glass. > The glass is known as LeChatelierite. Pete Modreski, correct me if I'm > wrong.? > ? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" > ? > To: ? > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:19 AM? > Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites? > ? >> Hi can anybody give me any info how I can find fulgurites I just >> started > to collect them and I thought it would be great to look for >> them.I live in > New Jersey and I do not no if that would be a good >> area to collect them > any info would be great thanks bob.? >> ? > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 17 19:25:55 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 17 19:26:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Got Fluorite? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1F7AB8B3-8529-11DD-BC90-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Hey List, A year ago I drove 18 hours (one way) to be able to join Nate and the Boston Mineral Club for a collecting trip that was one of the big the highlights of the ten day camping journey/family reunion. I would not have gone without the collecting opportunity. I'm sorry that previous family commitments will prevent me from seriously considering this trip. I sure would like to go. The Boston club rocks! Thank you Nate for remembering the List. I'll be looking for your trip report. ;-} Kreigh On Wednesday, Sep 17, 2008, at 08:52 America/Detroit, Nathan Martin wrote: > This is an invitation to anyone on the Rockhounds mailing list to join > a > Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to Marion, KY over the Columbus Day > weekend > (Oct 11th to 13th). We will be collecting at the Eureka, Columbia and > Mary > Belle mines near Marion, KY with the permission of the Ben Clement > Mineral > Museum. This is different from the museum's monthly schedule of trips > in > that they will be doing some special excavating for us at a location > near > the Eureka Mine that we identified as promising during our trip their > last > year (I took out 20 decent fluorite specimens within 6" of the > surface). > There will be a fee to help cover the costs of the excavation in > addition to > the museums normal $20/day/bucket collecting fee. All proceeds from > this > special fieldtrip will go to support the museum - a very worthwhile > cause! > > This will be my 5th trip to Marion, KY and I will be driving 1200 > miles one > way to get there. That alone should be enough to tell you that I > think the > collecting will be worthwhile. Trip attendees will also be given > directions > to some Indiana geode localities as well as KY and IN fossil > localities that > can be visited either on the way out or on the way home. > > Some of our members will be flying out for this. Southwest Airlines (2 > checked bags free) flys into Nashville, TN which is about 2.5 hours > drive > south of Marion, KY. I have done this twice and it is a reasonable > way to > go. Those of us who drive will have heavy tools to share with those > who > have luggage constraints. > > If you have any interest in this trip please email me off list and I > will > provide you with the complete details. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 20:03:57 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 17 20:08:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Part 1 (was: Got Fluorite?) Message-ID: Kreigh, Thanks for the kind words. As for a trip report, I sent a series of email messages back to the Boston Mineral Club email list last year. I'll dig them up and send them out over the next few days just to give people a better idea as to what the trip is like. Here is the first installment: ------------message from 10/5/2007------------- Hello BMC, I thought I'd send out periodic reports on the progress of the KY fluorite fieldtrip. Its Thursday night and I'm staying in Jasper, Indiana. I took the long way to Marion so that I could collect at the famous geode locality on State Road 37 just north of the turnoff to Harrodsburg, IN. This locality has 3 benches and geode layers are evident on various levels up the face. For a collector born in Indiana this is a must visit locality and I had never before been there so this had to be the day. This morning I was visiting my son, his wife and my 5 month old grandson in Columbus, OH so I didn't exactly get an early start. I didn't get to the roadcut until about an hour before sunset. There is plenty of room to park right by the cut on the southbound side and I pulled up to a promising spot where geodes were clearly visible in the wall above. Many parts of the roadcut have been severely undercut by generations of previous collectors but I was able to climb up about 10 ft to get to a geode layer. I mainly salvaged geode halves left in the wall by previous collectors but I did also work a few small geodes out of the productive layer. I was a little cautious because my car was right below me and I really didn't want to bring any major rocks crashing down on my wheels. By the time I had figured out how to efficiently work the rock the light was gone and I gingerly worked my way back down to the car. At least I now have some specimens from this classic locality. Next time I'll bring a ladder!! Tomorrow its on to Marion, KY and then across the Ohio River to Cave-in-Rock to scout out localities for our Sunday and Tuesday collecting. If you are bored by these reports just delete them and accept my apology. If you find them interesting....stay tuned. best regards, Nate Martin On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Hey List, > > A year ago I drove 18 hours (one way) to be able to join Nate and the > Boston Mineral Club for a collecting trip that was one of the big the > highlights of the ten day camping journey/family reunion. I would not have > gone without the collecting opportunity. > > I'm sorry that previous family commitments will prevent me from seriously > considering this trip. I sure would like to go. The Boston club rocks! > > Thank you Nate for remembering the List. I'll be looking for your trip > report. ;-} > > Kreigh > > > > > > On Wednesday, Sep 17, 2008, at 08:52 America/Detroit, Nathan Martin wrote: > > This is an invitation to anyone on the Rockhounds mailing list to join a >> Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to Marion, KY over the Columbus Day weekend >> (Oct 11th to 13th). We will be collecting at the Eureka, Columbia and >> Mary >> Belle mines near Marion, KY with the permission of the Ben Clement Mineral >> Museum. This is different from the museum's monthly schedule of trips in >> that they will be doing some special excavating for us at a location near >> the Eureka Mine that we identified as promising during our trip their last >> year (I took out 20 decent fluorite specimens within 6" of the surface). >> There will be a fee to help cover the costs of the excavation in addition >> to >> the museums normal $20/day/bucket collecting fee. All proceeds from this >> special fieldtrip will go to support the museum - a very worthwhile cause! >> >> This will be my 5th trip to Marion, KY and I will be driving 1200 miles >> one >> way to get there. That alone should be enough to tell you that I think >> the >> collecting will be worthwhile. Trip attendees will also be given >> directions >> to some Indiana geode localities as well as KY and IN fossil localities >> that >> can be visited either on the way out or on the way home. >> >> Some of our members will be flying out for this. Southwest Airlines (2 >> checked bags free) flys into Nashville, TN which is about 2.5 hours drive >> south of Marion, KY. I have done this twice and it is a reasonable way to >> go. Those of us who drive will have heavy tools to share with those who >> have luggage constraints. >> >> If you have any interest in this trip please email me off list and I will >> provide you with the complete details. >> >> best regards, >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com Thu Sep 18 16:07:38 2008 From: rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com (RockHounds: The Movie) Date: Thu Sep 18 16:07:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD]: "Oklahoma Rocks!" now on DVD Message-ID: "Oklahoma Rocks!" is now available on DVD on GeologyVideo.com http://www.geologyvideo.com >From Explorer Multimedia Inc. (the makers of "RockHounds: The Movie), "Oklahoma Rocks!" is a feature length educational documentary that explores the billion year history of the 46th state. Todd Kent Director/Producer "Oklahoma Rocks!" http://www.okgeology.com "Oklahoma Rocks!" is an independent, educational documentary film from Explorer Multimedia Inc., a non-profit 501 (c)(3) corporation. http://www.explorermultimedia.org _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/ From markstanley at bellnet.ca Thu Sep 18 19:27:00 2008 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Thu Sep 18 19:28:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites References: Message-ID: <001901c919ff$3343b540$3941d0d8@b1quvu32> I have also had a tree explode from a lightning strike. It was a cherry tree about 10 metres tall and had been dead for several years. The wood was just starting to rot. The largest piece left after the lightning was about 15 cm long, the stump looked like someone had twisted the tree off. My understanding of ideal conditions for Fulgurites to form is soil that is firmly packed, moist but not soaked and the water table within 4 or 5 metres of the soil surface. If the soil is loose or recently disturbed, the lightning will blow through without leaving a Fulgurite. I once saw where lightning had struck in a construction site, it looked like someone had set off some large firecrackers in the dirt. There has to be some moisture in the soil so it is conductive enough to get the energy flowing through, but there has to be resistance to create the heat required to melt the soil particles. The lightning is looking to ground out to something, through the path of least resistance. The water table being ideal. Underground water lines and heavy cables also appear to be targets. Once the host soil is melted, the steam produced from boiling both the water and mineral content creates a positive pressure that forms the tube-like or bubble filled structure of the Fulgurite. Sometimes bubbles will form at the entry point at the soil surface. The minerals that boil at lower temperatures escape as steam leaving a higher silicate content in the glass as compared to the host soil. Making Fulgurites is like using an arc welder.........a really big arc welder! Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada. From rocknate at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 20:59:58 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Thu Sep 18 21:00:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Part 2 (was: Got Fluorite?) Message-ID: Here is the second installment of my 2007 KY fluorite fieldtrip log. ---------------10/9/07-------------- Well, the best laid plans of mice & BMC fieldtrip leaders often go astray. The scheduled part of the trip is now over and I am in a motel in southern Indiana, finally with a high speed Internet connection and can finally give you an update. On Saturday morning at 7:30 AM we met our host, Bill Frazer, in the parking lot of the Ben Clement Mineral museum, signed the club and museum release forms and followed Bill out to the Eureka and Columbia mine sites in the gently rolling terrain of Western Kentucky. Based on past experience there our primary objective was the Eureka Mine. Two years ago Bill had excavated material out of the Eureka shaft and had dug down to the fluorite vein at about 20 yards upstream. Since that time we and others had successfully harvested dark purple fluorite from the excavated material. With the increased pace of collecting this year we expected to work harder but hoped that our knowledge of the site and the signs of unexposed vein material down near the creek that we uncovered last year would lead to even better finds this year. Unfortunately, we found that a large group of ~40 collectors from NC had visited just two weeks prior and had worked hard to excavate the material we were after (timing is everything). We did find some good material that they did not get. Don Swenson and I both found some exceptional pieces, and a team led by Ed Norton, Steve Towne and Bob Lancaster set about the task of cleaning out "the pit" to look for additional vein material to exploit. The only problem was that the level of the material was now below the level of Hurricane Creek. We built a mud and rock cofferdam to separate the pit from the creek but even the tenacious Kentucky clay could not completely keep water from seeping back in. The process was straightforward: stir up the water to entrain as much mud as possible, bail out the muddy water using 5 gal buckets, dig out the mud clay mixture in the bottom of the pit - all while trying to keep from getting submerged up to your knees in the mud/clay mixture. The objective of course was to find some seams with good crystals to expose and salvage. Some good material was found but not the killer pieces we were hoping for. It was a hard days work, especially when the temperature was in the high 80s (and I even scheduled this trip for October to avoid the summer heat). We had dinner at the Marion Country Club Saturday night and over dinner we resolved to attack "the pit" again on Monday, working as a team to see if we could expand the pit sufficiently to finally get to the "good stuff". By the way a typical meal at the Country Club was around $10 (including tip). After dinner we went back to the Clement museum for a private tour by Ed Clement. The fluorite specimens in this museum are breathtaking. Every time I visit I see something I missed before plus I get a chance to visit some old friends, like the amazing curved plate of fluorite crystals with crystals on both sides that is appropriately called the "bird in flight". It is also a neat thing to hear Ed talk about his dad, Ben Clement, whose amazing collection is housed in the museum. On Sunday, we met again at 7:30 AM and headed out on state road 91 to the ferry landing on the banks of the Ohio River. This time we were early enough that we did not get stuck behind the horse-drawn Amish carriages on their way to church. Once across the river, we headed off to two locations that I had hurriedly found on Friday afternoon after learning that we were no longer permitted to collect at the site that had been so good to us last year. The localities we did visit were two well-known former fluorite mines in Hardin County, IL. Both lay within 8 miles of Cave-in-Rock and are reached via State Road 1. Since it was another hot day with a forecast of temperatures near 90 degrees we started off at the more exposed location and went to the shadier one in the afternoon. Both sites have been extensively picked over and it was difficult to find good crystals anywhere. Rob Sawyer found some decent yellow fluorite crystals at the second site by splitting a fluorite seam in a boulder and I broke open a seam with calcite that I may be able to etch out to expose some purple fluorite cubes underneath. Yellow fluorite was reasonably available at both locations, just not in good crystals. John Chapman and I also found some good fluorescent specimens at these locations but the high 80 temperatures mad working under a black tarp with a fluorescent UV light a decidedly unpleasant experience. The second locality we visited that day also has the last remaining headframe in the district and has some of the other mine buildings and equipment still in place. We got some great pictures of all of these buildings that unfortunately now stand as silent memorial to the mining industry that used to flourish in the district. Unfortunately, late in the day we were told to leave by a local landowner who claimed to be the caretaker of the property. I apologized for being there without permission and asked him for his name and phone number so that we could ask for permission if we were to come back. The property was not posted and the gate into it was not locked so I had assumed that it was OK to collect there. I was mistaken and I think that permission is unlikely to be granted in the future. On Sunday evening we got together at the Marion Inn for a group dinner and a mineral swap. We dined on classic Kentucky pulled pork BBQ from the Marion Pit BBQ and had desserts made by the owner of the Marion Inn. It was a good chance to get together and talk minerals and plan for the next day. The Monday report will have to wait another day as I've got to get some sleep if I'm going to drive my planned 600 miles tomorrow. stay tuned, Nate Martin ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nathan Martin Date: Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:03 PM Subject: 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Part 1 (was: Got Fluorite?) To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Kreigh, Thanks for the kind words. As for a trip report, I sent a series of email messages back to the Boston Mineral Club email list last year. I'll dig them up and send them out over the next few days just to give people a better idea as to what the trip is like. Here is the first installment: ------------message from 10/5/2007------------- Hello BMC, I thought I'd send out periodic reports on the progress of the KY fluorite fieldtrip. Its Thursday night and I'm staying in Jasper, Indiana. I took the long way to Marion so that I could collect at the famous geode locality on State Road 37 just north of the turnoff to Harrodsburg, IN. This locality has 3 benches and geode layers are evident on various levels up the face. For a collector born in Indiana this is a must visit locality and I had never before been there so this had to be the day. This morning I was visiting my son, his wife and my 5 month old grandson in Columbus, OH so I didn't exactly get an early start. I didn't get to the roadcut until about an hour before sunset. There is plenty of room to park right by the cut on the southbound side and I pulled up to a promising spot where geodes were clearly visible in the wall above. Many parts of the roadcut have been severely undercut by generations of previous collectors but I was able to climb up about 10 ft to get to a geode layer. I mainly salvaged geode halves left in the wall by previous collectors but I did also work a few small geodes out of the productive layer. I was a little cautious because my car was right below me and I really didn't want to bring any major rocks crashing down on my wheels. By the time I had figured out how to efficiently work the rock the light was gone and I gingerly worked my way back down to the car. At least I now have some specimens from this classic locality. Next time I'll bring a ladder!! Tomorrow its on to Marion, KY and then across the Ohio River to Cave-in-Rock to scout out localities for our Sunday and Tuesday collecting. If you are bored by these reports just delete them and accept my apology. If you find them interesting....stay tuned. best regards, Nate Martin On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Hey List, > > A year ago I drove 18 hours (one way) to be able to join Nate and the > Boston Mineral Club for a collecting trip that was one of the big the > highlights of the ten day camping journey/family reunion. I would not have > gone without the collecting opportunity. > > I'm sorry that previous family commitments will prevent me from seriously > considering this trip. I sure would like to go. The Boston club rocks! > > Thank you Nate for remembering the List. I'll be looking for your trip > report. ;-} > > Kreigh > > > > > > On Wednesday, Sep 17, 2008, at 08:52 America/Detroit, Nathan Martin wrote: > > This is an invitation to anyone on the Rockhounds mailing list to join a >> Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to Marion, KY over the Columbus Day weekend >> (Oct 11th to 13th). We will be collecting at the Eureka, Columbia and >> Mary >> Belle mines near Marion, KY with the permission of the Ben Clement Mineral >> Museum. This is different from the museum's monthly schedule of trips in >> that they will be doing some special excavating for us at a location near >> the Eureka Mine that we identified as promising during our trip their last >> year (I took out 20 decent fluorite specimens within 6" of the surface). >> There will be a fee to help cover the costs of the excavation in addition >> to >> the museums normal $20/day/bucket collecting fee. All proceeds from this >> special fieldtrip will go to support the museum - a very worthwhile cause! >> >> This will be my 5th trip to Marion, KY and I will be driving 1200 miles >> one >> way to get there. That alone should be enough to tell you that I think >> the >> collecting will be worthwhile. Trip attendees will also be given >> directions >> to some Indiana geode localities as well as KY and IN fossil localities >> that >> can be visited either on the way out or on the way home. >> >> Some of our members will be flying out for this. Southwest Airlines (2 >> checked bags free) flys into Nashville, TN which is about 2.5 hours drive >> south of Marion, KY. I have done this twice and it is a reasonable way to >> go. Those of us who drive will have heavy tools to share with those who >> have luggage constraints. >> >> If you have any interest in this trip please email me off list and I will >> provide you with the complete details. >> >> best regards, >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Sep 19 13:55:15 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Sep 19 13:55:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Falls Fossil Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Falls Fossil Festival is tomorrow and Sunday. Go to www.fallsoftheohio.org/fossil_festival.shtml for details. I had planned to notify the group last Sunday, but we had 75 - 80 MPH winds that knocked out power to my house and about 300,000 other customers. I'm doing this note from work because I still lack power. We never lost power at the park and the down trees and debris have been cleaned up. The forecast is good and we have a good variety of vendors and programs. We did get 16 tons of minerals from Rosiclare Illinois dumped yesterday, much to my surprise! (The DNR truck driver had property damage and there are parks in southern Indiana that suffered widepread destruction due to thousands of downed trees. I figured he'd be used to work at those parks.) I'm ready for a good weekend! Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mhibberd at netzero.net Sat Sep 20 07:37:09 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Sat Sep 20 07:38:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware Message-ID: <20080920.103709.5060.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> please respond if you know of any easy entrance sites in pa or del i would like to take two ten year old boys and a six year old girl Many Thanks Mary ____________________________________________________________ Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4u0witoYW46gRtyFO460wwA4v3RZiQSDf8srrbSuJ3AR0aA3/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From fossilnut at verizon.net Sat Sep 20 09:58:28 2008 From: fossilnut at verizon.net (fossilnut@verizon.net) Date: Sat Sep 20 09:58:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware Message-ID: <640376653-1221929905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-843080228-@bxe039.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> The C and D Canal is a great place. I took a group of cub scouts there this spring and they hadb a blast. ------Original Message------ From: mhibberd@netzero.net Sender: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com ReplyTo: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware Sent: Sep 20, 2008 10:37 AM please respond if you know of any easy entrance sites in pa or del i would like to take two ten year old boys and a six year old girl Many Thanks Mary ____________________________________________________________ Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4u0witoYW46gRtyFO460wwA4v3RZiQSDf8srrbSuJ3AR0aA3/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 14:33:10 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Sep 20 14:33:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Part 3 (was: Got Fluorite?) Message-ID: Here is the third installment of my 2007 KY fluorite fieldtrip log. ---------------10/11/07-------------- Monday morning dawned over Marion, KY with the forecast of an even hotter day (92 deg!). Fortunately we were going back to the Eureka mine. On a hot day collecting along the shady banks of Hurricane Creek is much better than working a rock pile in full sun. Our numbers were down from a high of 15 people on Sunday to 11 as several people had to head back early to take care of their "day jobs". One group had vowed to clean out "the pit" in an attempt to find some really big crystals still in place in the fluorite veins. This group consisted of Ed Norton, Steve Towne, Bob Lancaster, John Campbell, Brett Howard, June Epps, and Nate Martin. We had two people (Steve Towne & John Campbell) down in the water & mud filling buckets, two others (Bret Howard & Ed Norton) shoveling dirt and mud, two people emptying buckets (Bob Lancaster & Nate Martin) and one person cleaning specimens (June Epps). The primary prerequisites for membership in this elite crew was a total disregard for the future uses of the shoes and clothing being worn and unbounded optimism in the face of a challenging task. In addition to the "pit crew" there were others who chose to poke around the general mine area looking for specimens shallowly buried in the dirt, especially around the numerous small pits that dated from the era of the Great Depression. According to Bill Frazer, during the depression people who had no work would try to make a little money by hand digging a shaft 15 or 20 feet down to get to the fluorite veins. They had nothing but time and it was cheaper to dig a shallow shaft rather than putting in a drift that would require wood to shore up the tunnel. They would put their hard-won ore on a cart and take it to the mill to earn a meager wage. It was hard work but did put some food on the table in a difficult time. The legacy of their efforts is a series of small caved-in pits in a line that follows the Eureka fault and Peter Christofono and Linda Frahm had had good luck last year turning over rocks around some of these pits and finding good crystals on the bottom side. Well they did it again this year! While the "pit crew" was slaving away in the mud and muck, Peter and Linda were off finding killer specimens by brushing away leaves and turning over rocks. Around lunch time the pit crew began to get a glimpse of what they had found and crew members began to drift off to join the "pokers'. Finally those of us who remained took a vote and decided to abandon our efforts in the pit. We had found some good specimens but the gain was not at all equal to the effort required. The rest of the day was spent digging around the prospect pits and most people had at least some success finding crystals on matrix. Some of these crystals are the same dark purple as those found in the Eureka pit down by the creek. Others, however, are a more attractive light lavender color. Linda and Peter found the best material on Monday but good finds were made by nearly everyone. Even in the shade the heat took its toll, and as the afternoon wore on people began to leave the site, some to head for home and others to rest a bit and clean up for dinner. The pit crew divided up the finds from their morning in the mud and I used my diamond cut-off saw to trim some of the specimens down to a more manageable size (I had hoped there would a reason for me to drag that beast 1200 miles to KY). The Country Club was closed on Monday, so 7 of us headed out to the Front Porch Restaurant for supper. Their specialty is catfish. You can get it fried, grilled or blackened and it comes with hush puppies, cornbread, white beans, pepper relish, scallions, cole slaw and choice of potato, all for less than $10. The restaurant is anything but elegant and the food is not fancy, but it is good country cooking and the price is certainly right. Thus ended our third day of fluorite collecting and my journal entry for tonight. best regards, Nate Martin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Sep 21 05:24:48 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com) Date: Sun Sep 21 05:24:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware In-Reply-To: <20080920.103709.5060.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> References: <20080920.103709.5060.1@webmail06.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <89848A95FD8C4EE3BD064565D18831C9@GenePC> The east end of the C&D Canal has a sand borrow pit from the old dredgings. Fossils are abundant and easy to collect. The Area is easy to get to. I took a group of Cub Scouts there in May and they had a blast. All you need is a plastic baggie and your eyes. No digging for easy finds is needed. Of course depending on the weather, bug spray, water, and other stuff you would normally take with you collecting are recommended items. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware please respond if you know of any easy entrance sites in pa or del i would like to take two ten year old boys and a six year old girl Many Thanks Mary ____________________________________________________________ Hit it out of the park with a new bat. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4u0witoYW46gRtyFO460wwA4v3RZiQSDf8srrbSuJ3AR0aA3/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Sep 21 05:17:24 2008 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Sep 21 08:37:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES Message-ID: <000201c91bff$fd1d5c20$294ed0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi List, Over the last 10 months or so, I have been going threough the data base of the minerals of the Museum for the Council for Geoscience here in Pretoprias, South Africa.I have been basically been checking the spelling and validity of mineral names, as well as checking on localities - correct spelling and tryingh to ascertain whether the mineral under investigtion has been found at that locality. As I am not 100% sure of quite a few localities in the USA, Canada and Mexico I am requesting the list to establish the correctness of the following (as it appears on our data base):- Tourmaline, Warwick, Massachussets, USA Bertrandite, Spors Mountain, Utah, USA Bertrandite, Agaachite deposit, Coachile, MEXICO. Any help would be appreciated Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 21 13:15:48 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 21 13:16:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES In-Reply-To: <000201c91bff$fd1d5c20$294ed0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: <148580FE-881A-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Dravite Tourmaline is found at Mount Grace, Warwick, Franklin Co., Massachusetts, USA and Warwick, Franklin Co., Massachusetts, USA according to MinDat. MinDat also lists Spor Mountain, Juab Co., Utah, USA as a source of Bertrandite and lists several claims and references. Beryllium, Fluorite and Urananium mineral deposits. For more information, see this website: http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1998/ofr-98-0524/SPORMTN.HTM#anchor651640 Fluorite is non-crystalline in varying shades of purple, showing box-work structure. Mio-Pliocene volcanic rocks : tuffs, breccias, rhyolite and rhyodacite intrusions in Paleozoic sedimentary series. These volcanic formations are F/Be-mineralized. Ref. : Economic Geology, 1961, 36, pp. 941-950. UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah Blue Chalk claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah; U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Blue Queen prospect U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Claybank claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah; U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Dell Mine Oversight Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluoride No. 1 Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluoride No. 13 Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluoride No. 18 Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluorine Queen No. 1 Mine (Middle Pit Deposit) U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluorine Queen No. 2 Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluorine Queen no. 4 prospect U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Fluro claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah; U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Green Crystal Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Hilltop Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Hogsback claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah; U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Nonella prospect U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Northend claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah; U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Rainbow claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah Rainbow no. 2 prospect U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. Roadside claim UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah Spor Mountain deposit Mining Annual Review (1985): 111. Tarus claim (Taras) UGMS Bull 117 Minerals and Mineral Localities of Utah Thursday Mine U.S. Geological Survey, 2005, Mineral Resources Data System: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia. MinDat only list one occurrance of Bertrandite in Mexico Aguachile Fluorspar - Beryllium Deposit, Pico Etero District, Coahuila, Mexico Hydrothermal LP-LT deposit. Caldeira subsidence, with a rhyolitic porphyry circular dike, in Cretaceous sedimentary series. Be/F veins and replacement on the internal rim of the dike. This mineralization is related to the intrusion, in the core of the caldeira, of a porphyritic alkaline quartz syenite. Ref. Am. Min. , 1962, 47, pp. 67-74. On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 08:17 America/Detroit, Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi List, > > Over the last 10 months or so, I have been going threough the data > base of the minerals of the Museum for the Council for Geoscience here > in Pretoprias, South Africa.I have been basically been checking the > spelling and validity of mineral names, as well as checking on > localities - correct spelling and tryingh to ascertain whether the > mineral under investigtion has been found at that locality. > > As I am not 100% sure of quite a few localities in the USA, Canada and > Mexico I am requesting the list to establish the correctness of the > following (as it appears on our data base):- > > Tourmaline, Warwick, Massachussets, USA > > Bertrandite, Spors Mountain, Utah, USA > > Bertrandite, Agaachite deposit, Coachile, MEXICO. > > Any help would be appreciated > > Horst > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Sep 21 15:11:20 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Sep 21 15:11:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite Message-ID: Hi list, I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is less likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl end-member marialite? It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit cell. Anybody who knows? Cheers Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mhibberd at netzero.net Sun Sep 21 17:36:09 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Sun Sep 21 17:38:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware Message-ID: <20080921.203609.25878.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com> Thank You So Much Mary ____________________________________________________________ Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uHAewn1W2lvI4bIlAjoVtCDOmEm7VGlKU80rTaenlluiVtl/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 21 17:58:43 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 21 17:58:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. Kreigh On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi list, > > > > I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > > Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is > less > likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > end-member > marialite? > > It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit > cell. > > > > Anybody who knows? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at copper.net Sun Sep 21 18:00:47 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Sep 21 18:00:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES In-Reply-To: <148580FE-881A-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <000201c91bff$fd1d5c20$294ed0c4@federatiydq01o> <148580FE-881A-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:15:48 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Dravite Tourmaline is found at Mount Grace, Warwick, Franklin Co., >Massachusetts, USA and Warwick, Franklin Co., Massachusetts, USA >according to MinDat. The Warwick location would probably be Powers Farm? It was open for collecting on and off when I lived in NY. Mr. Powers is probably gone by now. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 21 18:34:38 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 21 18:34:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9F1C68AC-8846-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Al, Powers Farm is in a different county per MinDat... Power's Farm (Bower Powers farm; Ryland Crary farm), Pierrepont, St Lawrence Co., New York, USA Known as the Ryland Crary Farm in the 1890's, the site is noteworthy for the exceptional specimens of black uvite tourmaline it has produced for more than a hundred years. I have a nice specimen of Uvite from Powers Farm from a trade with Larry Rush eight years ago (Thanks again Larry!). Kreigh On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 21:00 America/Detroit, Al Balmer wrote: > On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:15:48 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski > wrote: > >> Dravite Tourmaline is found at Mount Grace, Warwick, Franklin Co., >> Massachusetts, USA and Warwick, Franklin Co., Massachusetts, USA >> according to MinDat. > > The Warwick location would probably be Powers Farm? It was open for > collecting on and off when I lived in NY. Mr. Powers is probably gone > by now. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mineral.maertens at att.net Sun Sep 21 18:43:27 2008 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sun Sep 21 18:47:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <200809162319.m8GNJ2a4002724@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Larry, I bought a USB camera that fits through the ocular opening of my binocular microscope. Reference Konus Microvue CCD Average resolution (1.3 MEG) Color Connects to PC via USB Use any software you like to capture the pictures (TWAIN interface) PRO Very easy to start: 1) plug in microscope; 2) plug in PC; 3) start software and snap picture CON Must focus using second occular and then using PC screen (difficult for prescription glasses wearing people like me) A lot depends on your microscope and the traditional lighting etc. I used it a few times because easier and faster (definitely not better) than my analog film camera with micro lens or bellows set-up. Suggestion: use regular digital point and shoot or digital SLR with adapters to fit to your microscope. Johan Maertens Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Sep 21 18:55:22 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Sep 21 18:58:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: USB microscopes References: Message-ID: Thank you, Johan. What I was interested in was the kind of inexpensive hand-held microscope that is USB capable. I was hoping that the optics and focus ability (focability, focuscasity????) was good enough to replace both an ocular microscope and a digital camera at the same time. >From the kinds of answers I read here, those devices have a ways to go, at least the inexpensive ones. Thanks to all who answered my question!! Larry ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Maertens" To: Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: USB microscopes > Larry, > > I bought a USB camera that fits through the ocular opening of my > binocular microscope. > Reference Konus Microvue CCD > Average resolution (1.3 MEG) > Color > Connects to PC via USB > Use any software you like to capture the pictures (TWAIN interface) > > PRO > Very easy to start: 1) plug in microscope; 2) plug in PC; 3) start > software and snap picture > > CON > Must focus using second occular and then using PC screen (difficult > for prescription glasses wearing people like me) > > A lot depends on your microscope and the traditional lighting etc. > > I used it a few times because easier and faster (definitely not > better) than my analog film camera with micro lens or bellows set-up. > > Suggestion: use regular digital point and shoot or digital SLR with > adapters to fit to your microscope. > > Johan Maertens > Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Sep 21 20:07:16 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Sep 21 20:07:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Final Installment (was: Got Fluorite?) Message-ID: Here is the final installment of my 2007 KY fluorite fieldtrip log. ---------------10/12/07-------------- On Monday night a cold front moved through the Marion, KY area bringing a little rain, some thunder and lightning and a much-appreciated break to the heat. The sunrise Tuesday morning was spectacular as the diffracted rays of the sun just below the horizon gave pink edges to the departing clouds. I had called Bill Frazier the night before to tell him that there were 4 of us who wanted to go back for one more day at the Eureka Mine. I also told him that I would show him a promising location to do some excavating to enhance future collecting at the mine. At 8 AM the four diehards (Bret Howard, June Epp, John Campbell and Nate Martin) met Bill at the museum parking lot and headed back out to the mine. As we drove through the KY countryside and turned onto Columbia Mine Road I couldn't help thinking that this might well be my last time to see this particular part of the world. This was now my fourth trip to the area and there are so many other places that I want to collect that I may not be coming back to this particular spot again. I reminded myself that this is the way life is and you need to simply enjoy the journey. When we got to the mine I took Bill up to the prospect pit that had been so productive the day before and we showed him examples of some of the material that we had found. When I recommended that he do some excavating there for future collecting his reply was, "When will the Boston Mineral Club be coming back? Your club found this spot and you should benefit from its excavation!" I didn't exactly know what to say so I simply told him that I would let him know one way or the other. I had originally planned to go up to the Columbia mine to do some fluorescent collecting under my newly made blackout cloth. However, I couldn't resist completing the digging out of the area around a dead tree that Ed Norton and I had worked on the day before. The weather was cool and the air was dry and comfortable, such a pleasant change from the past 3 days. I started my digging in the compact KY clay using my Estwing miner's pick to find rocks within about 6" of the surface. When you do this you just hope that the crystals are facing down. The sound of a steel tool breaking fluorite crystals is not a pleasant one and I heard it several times. A three-pronged garden tool was useful in digging out a rock once it was exposed. By noon, I had covered a roughly 6' by 6' area and had found nearly two dozen specimens ranging from thumbnail specimens that I found hidden in lumps of clay to hand-sized small cabinet specimens studded with fluorite cubes and rectangular prisms. Most of the fluorite crystals are dark purple but I found a few of the pretty pale lavender variety that I had seen others collect. The crystals at this spot also did not exhibit the stepped growth patterns that I had previously seen from the Eureka pit, but instead were sharp smooth crystal faces with sizes ranging from 1/8" to 5/8". After eating lunch, I set up a wash bucket to clean up the specimens I had collected and then sorted out the keepers and wrapped them up carefully for the long trip home. I never did make it up to the Columbia mine but I had clearly made the right decision as to where to collect. John Campbell left around 1:30 PM to catch his flight out of Nashville and I left around 3:00 PM. Bret and June stayed on since they were not heading back to their home in Pittsburgh until the next day. Before leaving I visited Yoder's Variety store and bought an assortment of jellies and butters (its hard to get elderberry jelly and strawberry butter out here on the east coast). On the way out of town I picked up one last Marion Pit BBQ sandwich with baked beans and coleslaw to have for dinner on the road and headed up state road 60 toward Evansville, IN and the long 1200 mile drive home. On Wednesday I couldn't resist cutting through Indiana to collect at another geode site. This one featured optically clear calcite crystals in quartz and dolomite. If I had the time and energy I would have gotten out my saw to try to rescue some of the larger geodes with better calcite crystals inside but neither time nor energy were available in great abundance so I collected what I could and then hit the road again. I made it as far as Youngstown, OH on Wednesday and then drove the rest of the way home on Thursday. The constant rain "dampened" my enthusiasm for any additional collecting stops even though Peter Cristofono had found good plant fossils at one of the I80 exits in PA on his way out to KY. The inexpensive way to get great specimens is to buy them! But a trip like this is not about the economics of building a mineral collection. The shared experience of visiting a distant locality with a congenial group of collectors, gaining a sense of its history and geology and uncovering its beauty in crystals long hidden in the earth is in the words of the current credit card commercial, "priceless". My thanks to Ed Norton, Steve Towne, Bob Lancaster, Peter Cristofono, Linda Frahm, Bret Howard, June Epp, Don Swenson, Kieth & Cindy Newman, John Chipman, Ted Straiton, Rob & Jenn Sawyer and John Campbell for their partnership in this adventure. I had a great time. best regards, Nate Martin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Sep 21 20:12:22 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jbacko) Date: Sun Sep 21 20:12:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES In-Reply-To: <000201c91bff$fd1d5c20$294ed0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <000201c91bff$fd1d5c20$294ed0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: <48D70D16.8010409@hal-pc.org> Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi List, > > Over the last 10 months or so, I have been going threough the data base of the minerals of the Museum for the Council for Geoscience here in Pretoprias, South Africa.I have been basically been checking the spelling and validity of mineral names, as well as checking on localities - correct spelling and tryingh to ascertain whether the mineral under investigtion has been found at that locality. > > As I am not 100% sure of quite a few localities in the USA, Canada and Mexico I am requesting the list to establish the correctness of the following (as it appears on our data base):- > > Tourmaline, Warwick, Massachussets, USA > > Bertrandite, Spors Mountain, Utah, USA > > Spor Mountain, about a mile West of Topaz Mountain at the lower end of the Thomas Range, is all under claim and is actively mined for beryllium. The principal mineral is bertrandite. It also has much fluorite (fluorspar) and has been mined for that mineral in the past. Just East and opposite Spor Mountain, on the Thomas Range side are prospects for bixbyite and red beryl (and, of course, the topaz, spessartite, pseudobrookite, and bixbyite areas of Topaz Mountain itself). There is also a closed but not reclaimed uranium mine there, the Yellow Chief, which is owned by the beryllium company. Some of the spar and beryllium mines include the Hilltop, Blowout, Thursday, and Belt Hill, as well as areas of unnamed strip mining. All of these are on private property and access is strictly controlled. q.v. The Fish Springs, Utah 1:100000 Topographic map from the USGS, 1979. The map does not show the Yellow Chief which is located at the head of the strip mine area in The Dell. john > Bertrandite, Agaachite deposit, Coachile, MEXICO. > > Any help would be appreciated > > Horst > From albalmer at copper.net Mon Sep 22 00:15:01 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Sep 22 00:15:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] LOCALITY QUERIES In-Reply-To: <9F1C68AC-8846-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9F1C68AC-8846-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 21:34:38 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Al, > >Powers Farm is in a different county per MinDat... And a different state. My mind made some strange connections when I read your article. Warwick, NY is known for the Franklin marble. I jumbled Franklin, Warwick, and black tourmaline and somehow came up with Powers. > >Power's Farm (Bower Powers farm; Ryland Crary farm), Pierrepont, St >Lawrence Co., New York, USA > > Known as the Ryland Crary Farm in the 1890's, the site is > noteworthy for the exceptional specimens of black uvite > tourmaline it has produced for more than a hundred years. > >I have a nice specimen of Uvite from Powers Farm from a trade with >Larry Rush eight years ago (Thanks again Larry!). I still have a couple of specimens. There are quartz crystals in the locality, too, and a lot of mica. The mine, though very small, was a significant producer of mica during the 1st World War, according to Bower Powers. He used to charge collectors $2.00, but refused more and more of them as he got tired of people trashing the area. Last I knew (10 or so years ago) access was granted only to field trips in conjunction with the show at Gouveneur. The material is indeed uvite. I remember Vandall King trying to educate us about dravite, uvite and schorl after a trip. > >Kreigh > > > > >On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 21:00 America/Detroit, Al Balmer wrote: > >> On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:15:48 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski >> wrote: >> >>> Dravite Tourmaline is found at Mount Grace, Warwick, Franklin Co., >>> Massachusetts, USA and Warwick, Franklin Co., Massachusetts, USA >>> according to MinDat. >> >> The Warwick location would probably be Powers Farm? It was open for >> collecting on and off when I lived in NY. Mr. Powers is probably gone >> by now. >> >> -- >> Al Balmer >> Sun City, AZ >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 22 03:49:03 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 22 03:49:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi Kreigh, Thanks for the search but I'm afraid that the text you found only states that: " The other members of the group, meionite, mizzonite and marialite, are much rarer in occurrence. Their crystals are usually smaller and of better quality than those of wernerite. Meionite and missonite (misspelled mizzonite?) are found in limestone blocks on Monte Somma." That's throwing in all the scapolite group ;-))) Mizzonite and wernerite are not recognized by the IMA. Mizzonite is still sometimes used to indicate a scapolite with composition closer to that of marialite. The article describes wernerite as somewhere in the mid-section between marialite and meionite but somewhat closer to the meionite-end. My question came up after reading: http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM51/AM51_1014.pdf It's on page 9, last paragraph. It's much more complex than I like my reading but it got me thinking. conflicting symmetries that disturb electron densities could lead to disturbed growth, could it not? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 2:59 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See > http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php > from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. > > Kreigh > > > > > > On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Hi list, > > > > > > > > I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > > > > Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is > > less > > likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > > end-member > > marialite? > > > > It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > > carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit > > cell. > > > > > > > > Anybody who knows? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 06:13:21 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Mon Sep 22 06:13:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Axel, What is your criterion for large crystals? The classic Webster vesuvianite prospect in Sanford, ME is reputed to provide meionite crystals (see the Mineralogical Record, Volume 24, No. 5 and Mineralogy of Maine by King and Foord). I have self-collected crystals that appear to be meionite that are in the 5/8" range and Peter Cristofono has a photo on mindat from this locality of a 4 cm specimen. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi list, > > I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > > Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is less > likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > end-member > marialite? > > It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit > cell. > > Anybody who knows? > > Cheers > > Axel > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 22 06:41:00 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Sep 22 06:44:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite References: Message-ID: <632252534ABB48D7B660FDCF1D21A600@LarryRush> There was also an article in Rocks and Minerals some years ago (don't know the year) which had some marvelous pictures of Meionite from Sanford collected by Duane Leavitt. I seem to remember them being in the 6cm range, very well formed. These were dissolved out of vugs of Calcite, with Vesuvianite.(I dug there several times and collected many fine, large mosquito bites, none of which survived to today) Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > Axel, > What is your criterion for large crystals? > > The classic Webster vesuvianite prospect in Sanford, ME is reputed to > provide meionite crystals (see the Mineralogical Record, Volume 24, No. 5 > and Mineralogy of Maine by King and Foord). I have self-collected > crystals > that appear to be meionite that are in the 5/8" range and Peter Cristofono > has a photo on mindat from this locality of a 4 cm specimen. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > >> Hi list, >> >> I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. >> >> Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is >> less >> likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl >> end-member >> marialite? >> >> It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the >> carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit >> cell. >> >> Anybody who knows? >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 07:36:49 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 22 07:36:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? Message-ID: This fellow thinks the crust was seeded with heavy elements from meteor strikes 4 GYa < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/22/earths-precious-metals-could-be-from-meteorites-and-asteroids/ > BK -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 22 11:42:36 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 22 11:43:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <370E32242964407F9A7B8AAE859AEA2F@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Nate; You'll find crystals of both minerals probably. What I meant to say was: are large good quality crystals of marialite more abundant than those of meionite (or in general, is the formation of these crystals more likely towards the sodium, chlorine-rich part of the series). Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Nathan Martin > Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 15:13 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > Axel, > What is your criterion for large crystals? > > The classic Webster vesuvianite prospect in Sanford, ME is reputed to > provide meionite crystals (see the Mineralogical Record, Volume 24, No. 5 > and Mineralogy of Maine by King and Foord). I have self-collected crystals > that appear to be meionite that are in the 5/8" range and Peter Cristofono > has a photo on mindat from this locality of a 4 cm specimen. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Hi list, > > > > I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > > > > Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, is less > > likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > > end-member > > marialite? > > > > It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > > carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the unit > > cell. > > > > Anybody who knows? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:01:18 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:01:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred Message-ID: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> Here is a list of 100 things that all omnivore's should try in their lifetime... This is mostly off-topic, although #63 is on topic! :) http://www.verygoodtaste.co.uk/uncategorised/the-omnivores-hundred/ 1. Venison 2. Nettle tea 3. Huevos rancheros 4. Steak tartare 5. Crocodile 6. Black pudding 7. Cheese fondue 8. Carp 9. Borscht 10. Baba ghanoush 11. Calamari 12. Pho 13. PB&J sandwich 14. Aloo gobi 15. Hot dog from a street cart 16. Epoisses 17. Black truffle 18. Fruit wine made from something other than grapes 19. Steamed pork buns 20. Pistachio ice cream 21. Heirloom tomatoes 22. Fresh wild berries 23. Foie gras 24. Rice and beans 25. Brawn, or head cheese 26. Raw Scotch Bonnet pepper 27. Dulce de leche 28. Oysters 29. Baklava 30. Bagna cauda 31. Wasabi peas 32. Clam chowder in a sourdough bowl 33. Salted lassi 34. Sauerkraut 35. Root beer float 36. Cognac with a fat cigar 37. Clotted cream tea 38. Vodka jelly/Jell-O 39. Gumbo 40. Oxtail 41. Curried goat 42. Whole insects 43. Phaal 44. Goat's milk 45. Malt whisky from a bottle worth ?60/?80/$120 or more 46. Fugu 47. Chicken tikka masala 48. Eel 49. Krispy Kreme original glazed doughnut 50. Sea urchin 51. Prickly pear 52. Umeboshi 53. Abalone 54. Paneer 55. McDonald's Big Mac Meal 56. Spaetzle 57. Dirty gin martini 58. Beer above 8% ABV 59. Poutine 60. Carob chips 61. S'mores 62. Sweetbreads 63. Kaolin 64. Currywurst 65. Durian 66. Frogs' legs 67. Beignets, churros, elephant ears or funnel cake 68. Haggis 69. Fried plantain 70. Chitterlings, or andouillette 71. Gazpacho 72. Caviar and blini 73. Louche absinthe 74. Gjetost, or brunost 75. Roadkill 76. Baijiu 77. Hostess Fruit Pie 78. Snail 79. Lapsang souchong 80. Bellini 81. Tom yum 82. Eggs Benedict 83. Pocky 84. Tasting menu at a three-Michelin-star restaurant 85. Kobe beef 86. Hare 87. Goulash 88. Flowers 89. Horse 90. Criollo chocolate 91. Spam 92. Soft shell crab 93. Rose harissa 94. Catfish 95. Mole poblano 96. Bagel and lox 97. Lobster Thermidor 98. Polenta 99. Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee 100. Snake I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in the South crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has anyone ever eaten kaolin? Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 22 12:09:32 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:09:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just 23 to go. Does zebra count for horse? If so, make it 22. It may be less, 'cause sometime when I'm overseas I haven't a clue what's being served to me. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 2:01 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > > Here is a list of 100 things that all omnivore's should try > in their lifetime... From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Sep 22 12:21:31 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:21:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive problems. Aloha, Kitty Drew wrote: > I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in the South > crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has > anyone ever eaten kaolin? > > Drew > > From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:45:37 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:45:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040809221245n5c01868l28ac24cc4484dff8@mail.gmail.com> Sure... but I'd think that it would on the list for a different reason... Drew On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive problems. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Drew wrote: > >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in the >> South >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? >> >> Drew >> >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Sep 22 12:49:57 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:49:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <9E012247E6A54A87AA1AE7A78F2AAC72@Goldstein> I think it is Kaopectate - and now you know what the "Kao" stands for. Kaolinpectate is just to long. Same with Milk of Magnesium or Pepto-bisomol (bismuth). Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive > problems. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Drew wrote: >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in >> the South >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? >> >> Drew >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:52:41 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Sep 22 12:52:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <9E012247E6A54A87AA1AE7A78F2AAC72@Goldstein> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> <9E012247E6A54A87AA1AE7A78F2AAC72@Goldstein> Message-ID: <7aac8040809221252n406ad413jc05cd05abad1cfbd@mail.gmail.com> David Lipscomb forwarded me on a site that others may find interesting, http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/3_01/3_07_01/back_then.shtml Here is a quote from that link, *"Mama would give us 15 cents and say, 'Go up to so-and-so's house and get me some chalk,' she said. Naturally, as a child you're going to taste it. All of the sudden, I'd say within a year, it was like - 'I want that.' I don't have much of a social life anymore. It's more important I get home to get my fix. Do you know how the ground smells when it's real dry and along comes a little sprinkle of rain - that fresh smell? If you could taste a smell, that's how I would describe it. Most people expect it to be gritty, but it's creamy smooth. Technically, I'd rather eat dirt than food. If I could eat dirt for breakfast, dirt for lunch, dirt for dinner and a little iced tea I'd be fine. Some people just go out and dig in their yard. But I've seen it at convenience stores, stores in black neighborhoods, gas stations. Even though it says right on the package that it's a 'novelty item, not for human consumption,' sometimes you'll find it with the vegetables at the grocery store. It's embarrassing for me. It's embarrassing for my family." *Drew* * On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I think it is Kaopectate - and now you know what the "Kao" stands for. > Kaolinpectate is just to long. Same with Milk of Magnesium or Pepto-bisomol > (bismuth). > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > > > > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive > > problems. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > Drew wrote: > >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in > >> the South > >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has > >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? > >> > >> Drew > >> > >> > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Sep 22 13:01:07 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Sep 22 13:01:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? References: Message-ID: It would be a safe bet to say the geology of Earth is a reflection of the composition of the formation of the Solar System. Whether precious metals were accumulated during the initial collision of planetesimals or the rain of meteorites during the first billion years of the Earth's history doesn't rate among the more pressing issues of geology for me. Have any precious metals been found in any meteorite? They are "precious" because of their scarcity. Since meteorites are relatively scarce as well, one would expect "scarce squared" would indicate that you are not likely to find gold, silver, etc. in meteorites. On a related matter, geologists say that earth's oceans are from comets colliding with our planet. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:36 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? This fellow thinks the crust was seeded with heavy elements from meteor strikes 4 GYa < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/22/earths-precious-metals-could-be-from-meteorites-and-asteroids/ > BK From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 13:18:19 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 22 13:18:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I guess if this were true then there would be higher levels of heavy elements in the crust than in the mantle. How you would measure the metal content of the mantle I wouldn't know. Magma is from the crust isn't it? I think 'precious' was added by the headline writer who probably doesn't know an element from an aardvark. BK On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 16:01, Alan Goldstein wrote: > It would be a safe bet to say the geology of Earth is a reflection of the > composition of the formation of the Solar System. Whether precious metals > were accumulated during the initial collision of planetesimals or the rain > of meteorites during the first billion years of the Earth's history doesn't > rate among the more pressing issues of geology for me. Have any precious > metals been found in any meteorite? They are "precious" because of their > scarcity. Since meteorites are relatively scarce as well, one would expect > "scarce squared" would indicate that you are not likely to find gold, > silver, etc. in meteorites. > > On a related matter, geologists say that earth's oceans are from comets > colliding with our planet. > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:36 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? > > > This fellow thinks the crust was seeded with heavy elements from meteor > strikes 4 GYa > > < > > http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/22/earths-precious-metals-could-be-from-meteorites-and-asteroids/ > > > > BK > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the horizon." Ralph Waldo Emerson J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Sep 22 13:50:46 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Sep 22 13:53:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> Brother Axel, I would imagine that crystallization of regular inorganic solids is more dependent on the conditions of formation. If it has a well-defined structure, then under the right conditions it would tend to form crystals as large and well-shaped as any other. This usually involves slow cooling and, of course, an abundance of the necessary elements or polyanions necessary to form the mineral. Minerals formed from low-temperature alteration would tend not to form large and wel-defined crystals, though of course there may be exceptions to this. To mineralogists, for example, gypsum brings to mind large crystals from 4 cm to huge crystals in the Cave of Swords. To a soil scientist, gypsum usually brings thoughts of white crusts and nodules. Best, Don From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Sep 22 14:02:21 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:05:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Connecticut Almandine References: <632252534ABB48D7B660FDCF1D21A600@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8F97A340600641D9909F84DA29862287@LarryRush> I realize I have been posting a lot of "ADs" recently, but it seems like an active mineral year for me, so I'll push my luck one more time..... I hit a good vein at the Roxbury Falls Almandine mine last week, so I have put some photos on the web site: www.ConnRoxMinerals.com/Almandine.html This location produces an abundance of poor to fair Almandine crystals in a gneiss and mica schist, and is a popular digging site for children of all ages. The ones I dug last week are a bit unusual for the site, and deserve a little publicity, I thought. Larry Rush From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Sep 22 14:35:39 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Sep 22 14:35:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003201c91cfb$2875fd40$7961f7c0$@dillen@skynet.be> If you look carefully enough, I bet you will find any of the 91 more or less stable elements in any meteorite or other sample (except perhaps for technetium), at least some atoms :>)). By "looking carefully" I mean analyzing down to something like a few ppq (part per quadrillion), or 0.000 000 000 000 1 %. In some cases that is possible with vey specialized techniques, such as neutron activation analysis or high resolution ICP mass spectrometry. We (R. Van Tassel, R. Vochten, E. De Grave, J. Hertogen and myself) determined e.g. Ir (iridium) and Au (gold) in a fragment of the Santa Catharina meteorite (article appeared in "Meteoritics" about 15 years ago - honestly I wrote first " a few years ago", until I realized that it was somewhere in 1992). Actually we found 0.03 ppm (0.000 003 %) Ir and 3.3 ppm (0.00033 %) Au. So I can confirm from our own measurements that precious metals have been found (or rather "detected") in meteorites. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:01 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? It would be a safe bet to say the geology of Earth is a reflection of the composition of the formation of the Solar System. Whether precious metals were accumulated during the initial collision of planetesimals or the rain of meteorites during the first billion years of the Earth's history doesn't rate among the more pressing issues of geology for me. Have any precious metals been found in any meteorite? They are "precious" because of their scarcity. Since meteorites are relatively scarce as well, one would expect "scarce squared" would indicate that you are not likely to find gold, silver, etc. in meteorites. On a related matter, geologists say that earth's oceans are from comets colliding with our planet. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:36 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? This fellow thinks the crust was seeded with heavy elements from meteor strikes 4 GYa < http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/22/earths-precious-metals-could-be-from-meteorites-and-asteroids/ > BK -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 22 15:03:52 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 22 15:04:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <9E012247E6A54A87AA1AE7A78F2AAC72@Goldstein> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com><48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> <9E012247E6A54A87AA1AE7A78F2AAC72@Goldstein> Message-ID: <8E5368CD01154A829C2E22B6AE30092E@AXELDESKTOP> Between 1909 and 1943 you would be given arsenic containing drug if you were so unlucky to get what killed Beethoven. Before penicillin there was Salvarsan... Syphilis is a bad way to die, I'm told and you would prefer the side-effects of arsenic-poisoning anytime. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 21:50 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > > I think it is Kaopectate - and now you know what the "Kao" stands for. > Kaolinpectate is just to long. Same with Milk of Magnesium or Pepto-bisomol > (bismuth). > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > > > > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive > > problems. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > Drew wrote: > >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in > >> the South > >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has > >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? > >> > >> Drew > >> > >> > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Sep 22 14:59:43 2008 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Mon Sep 22 15:05:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How could they have left out czarnina?! (That's Polish ducks-blood soup.) On September 22, 2008Monday, at 2:01 PM, Drew wrote: > Here is a list of 100 things that all omnivore's should try in their > lifetime... This is mostly off-topic, although #63 is on topic! :) > > http://www.verygoodtaste.co.uk/uncategorised/the-omnivores-hundred/ > > 1. Venison > 2. Nettle tea > 3. Huevos rancheros > 4. Steak tartare > 5. Crocodile > 6. Black pudding > 7. Cheese fondue > 8. Carp > 9. Borscht > 10. Baba ghanoush > 11. Calamari > 12. Pho > 13. PB&J sandwich > 14. Aloo gobi > 15. Hot dog from a street cart > 16. Epoisses > 17. Black truffle > 18. Fruit wine made from something other than grapes > 19. Steamed pork buns > 20. Pistachio ice cream > 21. Heirloom tomatoes > 22. Fresh wild berries > 23. Foie gras > 24. Rice and beans > 25. Brawn, or head cheese > 26. Raw Scotch Bonnet pepper > 27. Dulce de leche > 28. Oysters > 29. Baklava > 30. Bagna cauda > 31. Wasabi peas > 32. Clam chowder in a sourdough bowl > 33. Salted lassi > 34. Sauerkraut > 35. Root beer float > 36. Cognac with a fat cigar > 37. Clotted cream tea > 38. Vodka jelly/Jell-O > 39. Gumbo > 40. Oxtail > 41. Curried goat > 42. Whole insects > 43. Phaal > 44. Goat's milk > 45. Malt whisky from a bottle worth ?60/?80/$120 or more > 46. Fugu > 47. Chicken tikka masala > 48. Eel > 49. Krispy Kreme original glazed doughnut > 50. Sea urchin > 51. Prickly pear > 52. Umeboshi > 53. Abalone > 54. Paneer > 55. McDonald's Big Mac Meal > 56. Spaetzle > 57. Dirty gin martini > 58. Beer above 8% ABV > 59. Poutine > 60. Carob chips > 61. S'mores > 62. Sweetbreads > 63. Kaolin > 64. Currywurst > 65. Durian > 66. Frogs' legs > 67. Beignets, churros, elephant ears or funnel cake > 68. Haggis > 69. Fried plantain > 70. Chitterlings, or andouillette > 71. Gazpacho > 72. Caviar and blini > 73. Louche absinthe > 74. Gjetost, or brunost > 75. Roadkill > 76. Baijiu > 77. Hostess Fruit Pie > 78. Snail > 79. Lapsang souchong > 80. Bellini > 81. Tom yum > 82. Eggs Benedict > 83. Pocky > 84. Tasting menu at a three-Michelin-star restaurant > 85. Kobe beef > 86. Hare > 87. Goulash > 88. Flowers > 89. Horse > 90. Criollo chocolate > 91. Spam > 92. Soft shell crab > 93. Rose harissa > 94. Catfish > 95. Mole poblano > 96. Bagel and lox > 97. Lobster Thermidor > 98. Polenta > 99. Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee > 100. Snake > > I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in the > South > crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. > Has > anyone ever eaten kaolin? > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Sep 22 15:00:25 2008 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Mon Sep 22 15:06:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred In-Reply-To: <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> References: <7aac8040809221201n17fa335by67953d75f81ad9f8@mail.gmail.com> <48D7F03B.9000301@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Many white wines are clarified with kaolin. On September 22, 2008Monday, at 2:21 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive > problems. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Drew wrote: >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating >> women in the South >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this >> list. Has >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? >> >> Drew >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Sep 22 15:15:06 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Sep 22 15:15:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Connecticut Almandine In-Reply-To: <8F97A340600641D9909F84DA29862287@LarryRush> References: <632252534ABB48D7B660FDCF1D21A600@LarryRush> <8F97A340600641D9909F84DA29862287@LarryRush> Message-ID: <06D3489070D14AAA98F63525A8905E0D@okapi> That brought back memories! Back In the Day (when I had customers in NYC) I used to pop up to Roxbury Falls with Larry and dig. A fun place, indeed. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Lawrence Rush > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 4:02 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Connecticut Almandine > > I realize I have been posting a lot of "ADs" recently, but it > seems like an active mineral year for me, so I'll push my > luck one more time..... > > I hit a good vein at the Roxbury Falls Almandine mine last ... From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Sep 23 02:49:47 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Sep 23 02:50:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50F5B483E6AA4B4B88141A88449A7469@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Brian & Alan & Rik & list ;-) The metals discussed in the article are the so called HSE. Highly siderophilic means that they bond to iron or prefer to stay dissolved in the iron core of the planet. A bit like gold likes to stay in mercury? The crust pulls itself down by it's weight when sheets of basaltic rock sink in the mantle in subduction zones. Basalt being heavier than granite. Tectonic plates sink into the mantle so the heat of the friction would melt both the sinking sheet and the contact zone with the mantle, wouldn't it? So ejected material as a result of subduction zone volcanism would have to contain stuff from both mantle AND crust (and much carbonates from the seafloor). Since all movement happens in the upper mantle and crust, it would be logical to assume that none or very little of the HSE are redistributed. They are in the core and they stay there, I guess. All the elements heavier that iron are formed in supernova explosions (although Co and Ni may form through a process in which iron nuclei capture slow moving neutron which decay through internal transition in to a proton an electron and an antineutrino, thus producing cobalt and nickel). Some of the lighter elements like lithium form through cosmic radiation bombardment of heavier elements. They are just fragments that are shot off heavier unstable elements. Other elements form as a decay product of unstable isotopes. Lead is a good example. Rare earth elements ARE the heaviest so they came into being "as is". Stars form in the wake of a compressing agent that sweeps through interstellar material and disturbs its gravitational equilibrium. Usually one of the spiral arms that passes through but a supernova remnant crashing into the interstellar dust and gas has the same effect. That material is riddled with heavier elements from millions of past supernovae. It stands to reason that any "heavenly body" that forms in such regions sweeps up these elements. In planets or large moons, the formation generates great heat which melts them causing the molten material to segregate by gravity. Iron sinks to the core, taking the HSE with it. This does not happen in smaller bodies like asteroids. They are small and cool too quickly to allow for segregation if they ever were in a liquid state to begin with. Their composition would be much more constant throughout their volume. So I guess that meteorites could indeed be a source of HSE in the crust of our planet and some of the mantle (by deep impacts). Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 22:18 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? > > I guess if this were true then there would be higher levels of heavy > elements in the crust than in the mantle. How you would measure the metal > content of the mantle I wouldn't know. Magma is from the crust isn't it? > > I think 'precious' was added by the headline writer who probably doesn't > know an element from an aardvark. > > BK > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 16:01, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > It would be a safe bet to say the geology of Earth is a reflection of the > > composition of the formation of the Solar System. Whether precious metals > > were accumulated during the initial collision of planetesimals or the rain > > of meteorites during the first billion years of the Earth's history doesn't > > rate among the more pressing issues of geology for me. Have any precious > > metals been found in any meteorite? They are "precious" because of their > > scarcity. Since meteorites are relatively scarce as well, one would expect > > "scarce squared" would indicate that you are not likely to find gold, > > silver, etc. in meteorites. > > > > On a related matter, geologists say that earth's oceans are from comets > > colliding with our planet. > > > > Alan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:36 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of heavy elements in crust? > > > > > > This fellow thinks the crust was seeded with heavy elements from meteor > > strikes 4 GYa > > > > < > > > > http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/22/earths-precious-metals-could-be-from - > meteorites-and-asteroids/ > > > > > > > BK > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > "The thunderbolt falls on an inch of ground; but the light of it fills the > horizon." > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Sep 23 03:45:13 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Sep 23 03:45:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Brother Don, I stumbled upon an issue with scaoplites in which rings of SiO4 and AlO4 tetrahedrons form a cage in which an anion is "encapsulated". It appears that Cl- fits in nicely but CO3 can have four possible orientations within the cage. The CO3 anion is unable to rotate at low temperatures and in one instance of the possible positions it is believed to actually stick out of the cage some. I would, as a complete layman looking at this complex matter, infer from this that 1 in 4 unit cells of theoretically pure meionite (Ca, CO3 end member) would suffer from crystallo-chemical deviation. The electron density in that face of the unit cell would be different from the others. Moving towards the marialite end of the series would decrease the number of these "faults?". That is why I would like to know whether there is a noticeable discrepancy between the occurrence of large, gemmy crystals of both species or that it's apparently not a big deal ;-) It seems also that the ratio of Al-occupied/Si-occupied tetrahedrons is much higher in meionite than in marialite. Something in the order of 10 to 15 % more Al than Si. Does this mean that Fe3+ substituting for Al could also occur more frequently in meionite than in marialite? Greetings from Belgium where the weather is fair but chilly.... Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens DonH > Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 22:51 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > Brother Axel, > > I would imagine that crystallization of regular inorganic solids is more > dependent on the conditions of formation. If it has a well-defined > structure, then under the right conditions it would tend to form > crystals as large and well-shaped as any other. This usually involves > slow cooling and, of course, an abundance of the necessary elements or > polyanions necessary to form the mineral. Minerals formed from > low-temperature alteration would tend not to form large and wel-defined > crystals, though of course there may be exceptions to this. > > To mineralogists, for example, gypsum brings to mind large crystals from > 4 cm to huge crystals in the Cave of Swords. To a soil scientist, > gypsum usually brings thoughts of white crusts and nodules. > > Best, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Sep 23 13:27:56 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 23 13:28:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred Message-ID: <8CAEBD1FF01A326-B3C-453B@webmail-ne20.sysops.aol.com> Interesting stuff (the food list, as well as the kaolin inclusion). I have a friend here who recently completed a M.S. thesis at Univ. of Northern Colorado on medicinal uses of minerals, and from her I've learned a lot about that topic (with a colleague, she's working on turning it into a book, to be published?probably by the Univ. of Colo. Press).? She's researched a lot on "geophagy", the practice of eating dirt--widespread in many cultures, as per the excerpt that Drew quoted.? But I've also learned an interesting sideline about kaolin and kaopectate.? The bottom line is--kaopectate, named for kaolin, USED to contain kaolin, but now (at least the product sold in the U.S.) no longer does, they replaced it solely with bismuth subsalicylate (the same pink stuff in Pepto-Bismol).? It was a bit hard for her to track down exactly why this was done; turns out is was because a group threatened to file a lawsuit about it, because the kaolin used, violated the California law specifying acceptable lead content in food products.? (Now, it turns out that those Calif. lead standards are extremely stringent--in fact, the kaolin in question, contained a factor of several times LESS lead, than the "average granite" does, but it still exceeded the California standards.)? She says that kaopectate sold in Canada, as well as what is sold for veterinary use (horses, etc.--in the economical gallon size), still contains real kaolin. P.S., as I was writing the above, I just did a little googling relating to this topic, and here is one story I found... CEHCA - More Artificial Turf Found with Lead, as California ... More Artificial Turf Found with Lead, as California Attorney General Files Lawsuits ... found lead levels far in excess of federal and California standards . ... www.cehca.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=241 - 19k - More problems with people eating that darned astro-turf!? If only they'd just play on it and stop chewing it... Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Alan Goldstein To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 1:49 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred I think it is Kaopectate - and now you know what the "Kao" stands for. Kaolinpectate is just to long. Same with Milk of Magnesium or Pepto-bisomol (bismuth). Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: The Omnivore's Hundred > You've eaten kaolin if you've ever taken Keopectate for digestive > problems. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Drew wrote: >> I know that is documented that pregnant and lactating women in >> the South >> crave kaolin, although I am not sure why it would be on this list. Has >> anyone ever eaten kaolin? >> >> Drew >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mineral.maertens at att.net Tue Sep 23 17:58:24 2008 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Tue Sep 23 18:01:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: USB microscopes In-Reply-To: <200809222206.m8MM6VlU031451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Larry, group, This is not the [useless] toy Barbie-scope (Intel/Mattel USB Microscope) Search for Konus & microvue http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=microvue+konus or http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.konus. com/prodotti.php%3Fid_p%3D360&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&pr ev=/search%3Fq%3Dmicrovue%2Bkonus%26hl%3Den It is best to let each part do what it is good for. Let the microscope take care of the optical work and specimen staging, and the camera do the recording. I have not seen an affordable good combination of both. The Konus Microvue is the most economical (not cheap) camera attachment for a microscope when I searched for it in 2007. The resolution is low to allow for further digital magnification after exposure. The Konus microvue direct link with the PC and a projector allow for a presentation or specimen sharing with a larger audience. Johan Maertens Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Sep 23 19:00:18 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Sep 23 18:59:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> Message-ID: <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > That is why I would like to know whether there is a noticeable discrepancy > between the occurrence of large, gemmy crystals of both species or that it's > apparently not a big deal ;-) Well, Pete Richards would be a better person to give a definitive answer on this exact question. As I mentioned previously, the main driving factors in crystal growth are the composition of the melt and rates of cooling. To quote my advanced mineralogy professor, most minerals at the nano-scale are a mess; full of defects, dislocations, and substitutions. We studied tourmalines, apatites, and feldspars, among other important minerals,and one wonders how these ever form recongizable crystals at all, given everything that can go wrong during their formation. Yet they do. There is a big difference between what happens on the molecular scale and the macro scale. Feldspars in particular are an atomic game of musical chairs, followed by outright molecular warfare as they cool and try to form stable structures. Yet, again, we see beautiful, sharp, and well-formed large crystals of these. If you look closely at many of them, you can see the exsolution lamellae where the incompatible entities separated; yet, on the hand scale, the crystal can still have a perfect morphology. > It seems also that the ratio of Al-occupied/Si-occupied tetrahedrons is much > higher in meionite than in marialite. Something in the order of 10 to 15 % > more Al than Si. Does this mean that Fe3+ substituting for Al could also > occur more frequently in meionite than in marialite? That's easier to answer: Fe3+ will often substitute for Al3+, depending of course on the size of the coordination polyhedra. However, there is a limit to the degree of substitution that will actually occur. Si and Al have high surface charges and they like to grab the free oxygens first; and, since O, Si, and Al are the most abundant elements before Fe, it makes sense that there will be more Si-O and Al-O polyanions in the average melt (with "average" being the operative word; plenty of exceptions there, of course). Well, I am moving to take my new job, so I won't be writing much in the next few weeks. I'm also hoping someone with more knowledge and experience on the subject will have a more suitable answer. best, Don From dbomke at comcast.net Tue Sep 23 19:10:58 2008 From: dbomke at comcast.net (Dennis Bomke) Date: Tue Sep 23 19:10:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement - Springfield, Illinois - October 4 & 5 Message-ID: Saturday, October 4 and Sunday, October 5, the Lincoln Orbit Earth Science Society (LOESS) will hold it's annual "Gem, Mineral and Fossil Show". The show will be held in the Illinois Building at the Illinois State Fairgrounds in Springfield, Illinois. The hours of the show are Saturday - 10 am to 6 pm and Sunday - 10 am to 5 pm. Admission is $2.00 for adults, $1.00 for seniors over 65, and Scouts in Uniform, 4-H groups and children under 12 (with an adult) are admitted free. Special Exhibits are "Homer" the juvenile Triceratops from the Burpee Museum, an agate display from the Lizzadro Museum of Lapidary Arts and a display of material from several Lagerstatten localities. 11 dealers will have Minerals, Fossils, Jewelry and Equipment. There will be more than a dozen demonstrators of a variety of lapidary techniques (wire wrapping, sphere making, glass bead making, gem tree making, sand bottle making, faceting, and more) - exhibits of fossils, minerals, jewelry, meteorites and geodes - geode cracking - flint knapping - free mineral/rock IDs - a silent auction - many activities for kids - a Gem Flume - fossil preparation demonstrations - a fluorescent mineral display - exhibits from the Illinois State Museum and the Illinois State Geological Survey. On Saturday a swap will be held with a great mix of material from club members. There is plenty of free parking and food available for purchase on site. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 23 19:16:06 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 23 19:16:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Axel, I think the key question is what is the unit cell for crystal formation? Quartz uses three molecules as a unit cell to provide a shape that stacks well to make crystals. Single molecules often have some atom sticking out one edge that makes it difficult to stack them, but if you combine two or more into a unit, often introducing handedness, you end up with a regular shape that can stack. Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; the need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. Kreigh On Monday, Sep 22, 2008, at 06:49 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Kreigh, > > > > Thanks for the search but I'm afraid that the text you found only > states > that: > > " The other members of the group, meionite, mizzonite and marialite, > are > much rarer in occurrence. Their crystals are usually smaller and of > better > quality than those of wernerite. Meionite and missonite (misspelled > mizzonite?) are found in limestone blocks on Monte Somma." > > > > That's throwing in all the scapolite group ;-))) Mizzonite and > wernerite are > not recognized by the IMA. > > Mizzonite is still sometimes used to indicate a scapolite with > composition > closer to that of marialite. The article describes wernerite as > somewhere in > the mid-section between marialite and meionite but somewhat closer to > the > meionite-end. > > My question came up after reading: > http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM51/AM51_1014.pdf > > It's on page 9, last paragraph. > > It's much more complex than I like my reading but it got me thinking. > conflicting symmetries that disturb electron densities could lead to > disturbed growth, could it not? > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > >> Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 2:59 > >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors > >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > >> > >> Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See > >> http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php > >> from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi list, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > >>> > >>> Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, >>> is > >>> less > >>> likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > >>> end-member > >>> marialite? > >>> > >>> It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > >>> carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the >>> unit > >>> cell. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Anybody who knows? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Axel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>> multipart/alternative > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >>> text/html > >>> --- > >>> -- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> Subscription Services: > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Sep 23 20:09:56 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 23 20:10:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite Message-ID: That was a great batch of question you asked about scapolite, Axel--lots of good thoughts there, and I kind of doubt whether ANYONE has all the answers to the questions you are posing. (Don made a good start at it though, in the response he posted.) I believe that a lot of scapolite is pretty near 50:50 in composition between the endmembers, so, I think a lot of it might not really vary much in composition and also in its content, or capacity for containing, iron and other things such as you're thinking about--it's a difference, if one were really comparing minerals that are 95% marialite say vs. 95% meionite, vs. comparing "marialite" that is only 55% to something that's 55% the other. So, a start would be to just look at a source of data giving the comparative range of composition of scapolites from the assorted best known localities for specimen and gem scapolite. (No, I do not immediately know where to find such data; one would have to survey the literature.) But when you found it, you would also probably find the companion data for iron content, etc., in those scapolites, and then you would have an empirical answer to many of the things you are asking. Pete **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Sep 23 20:47:21 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Sep 23 20:47:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: geology/mineralogy jobs (was) Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> Message-ID: <48D9B849.20607@hawaiiantel.net> DonH wrote: > > Well, I am moving to take my new job, so I won't be writing much in > the next few weeks. I'm also hoping someone with more knowledge and > experience on the subject will have a more suitable answer. > best, > Don Hey, Don, Back when we all congratulated you on getting your Master's, you told us you had been counting on a job but then got rejected. Now it seems you've got another one. Congratulations on that, and what is your impression of the job market for people who major in geology and mineralogy? Did you find lots of possibilities? My niece (I mentioned her once a few years ago when she accidentally turned a pyrite ball into a lot of micros) is now a freshman in college (at Washington State U, just across the border from you in Idaho) and she's thinking about a geology major (or Chinese studies). Aloha, Kitty From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Sep 23 21:53:09 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Sep 23 21:52:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: geology/mineralogy jobs (was) Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48D9B849.20607@hawaiiantel.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> <48D9B849.20607@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <48D9C7B5.7@verizon.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > what is your > impression of the job market for people who major in geology and > mineralogy? Did you find lots of possibilities? Hi, Well, my experience is unique based upon 1) my age, 2) my previous experience, 3) the horrible job market. Only in two cases was I told that my life experience and my previous career in IT were an asset; in other cases these were actually detrimental. I presume you are talking about getting a B.S. Right now, oil companies are doing a lot of hiring; for that, one would need to focus on paleo, sedimentary geo, and geophysics. Mining is also a rising tide; this requires a focus on structure, tectonics, and economic geology. Now, I could go on for some time about the blending of geology into other departments--fortunately for everyone, I don't have the time to rant about that at length. However, in brief, I would mention that hydrology is another rising field; at U. Idaho, hydrology is part of the Geology dept., though at other schools it may be part of engineering or "environmental sciences." Speaking of which, "enviromental science" majors are popular as well; jobs in remediation, environmental consulting, and water management are rising too. As far as being a "mineralogist," I would submit that there is really no such job any longer; or at least, very few, and usually reserved for PhD's in academia. Geologists with a focus on mineralogy can find jobs as lab analysts or materials scientists, and sometimes in state and federal forensic labs. However, these are competitive, and you need to be able to highlight your experience with various instruments and lab techniques rather than what your degree is. Someone wishing to pursue this path might want to supplement their degree with a course from McCrone Research Institute in asbestos detection and counting methods, since that is the popular thing right now, and will be for some time. Very few schools even grant a degree in mineralogy any longer, and I am only a mineralogist by virtue of the specialized work I did. In fact, Advancd Mineralogy will no longer be offered at WSU, and I had to convince Dr. Foit to teach it one last time. I also convinced our soils department to teach Soil Mineralogy last semester, which is a class that comes around about every three years. In both cases, I had to find other students to take these classes so they could have the minimum attendance requirement. Otherwise, mineralogy is a low-key field around here and will likely be shuffled more into the background as time goes on. Quite frankly, I had a hard time finding guidance in what jobs are out there and what concentrations are required. Those I mentioned are the main opportunities. The BLM and USGS still hire geologists, but when you look at the job descriptions, they seem to be focused on the hydrology and enviromental aspects. The website usajobs.gov has all federal jobs posted (so they say). I would recommend that any student sign up with this site and fill out all their info. Once you finish the tedious process of filling out your life story, you can search for jobs using a varaiety of keywords, and even have automated searches set up that e-mail you with new postings. I would also recommend that students check out the Geological Society of America to determine what specialties are popular right now. Finally, she might contact the department and ask what kinds of job students are getting (WSU doesn't have a geology dept. any longer; it is called the School of Earth and Enviromental Sciences, and is located in Webster Hall). I hope this helps in some way. best, Don From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Sep 24 02:52:41 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Sep 24 02:53:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <48D99F32.8050700@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thanks Don, That cleared up some of my worries ;-))) I'm glad to hear that you found a new job. Is it in the line of your freshly mastered skills? Take care and success in the new job Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens DonH > Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 4:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > That is why I would like to know whether there is a noticeable discrepancy > > between the occurrence of large, gemmy crystals of both species or that it's > > apparently not a big deal ;-) > > Well, Pete Richards would be a better person to give a definitive answer > on this exact question. As I mentioned previously, the main driving > factors in crystal growth are the composition of the melt and rates of > cooling. > > To quote my advanced mineralogy professor, most minerals at the > nano-scale are a mess; full of defects, dislocations, and substitutions. > We studied tourmalines, apatites, and feldspars, among other > important minerals,and one wonders how these ever form recongizable > crystals at all, given everything that can go wrong during their > formation. Yet they do. There is a big difference between what happens > on the molecular scale and the macro scale. Feldspars in particular are > an atomic game of musical chairs, followed by outright molecular warfare > as they cool and try to form stable structures. Yet, again, we see > beautiful, sharp, and well-formed large crystals of these. If you look > closely at many of them, you can see the exsolution lamellae where the > incompatible entities separated; yet, on the hand scale, the crystal can > still have a perfect morphology. > > > > It seems also that the ratio of Al-occupied/Si-occupied tetrahedrons is much > > higher in meionite than in marialite. Something in the order of 10 to 15 % > > more Al than Si. Does this mean that Fe3+ substituting for Al could also > > occur more frequently in meionite than in marialite? > > That's easier to answer: Fe3+ will often substitute for Al3+, depending > of course on the size of the coordination polyhedra. However, there is > a limit to the degree of substitution that will actually occur. Si and > Al have high surface charges and they like to grab the free oxygens > first; and, since O, Si, and Al are the most abundant elements before > Fe, it makes sense that there will be more Si-O and Al-O polyanions in > the average melt (with "average" being the operative word; plenty of > exceptions there, of course). > > Well, I am moving to take my new job, so I won't be writing much in the > next few weeks. I'm also hoping someone with more knowledge and > experience on the subject will have a more suitable answer. > > best, > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Sep 24 03:43:04 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Sep 24 03:43:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96DB45F624B34DD4BCD1720D7C537815@AXELDESKTOP> Thanks Pete, I was trying to write something for the clubmagazines of both my clubs (MKA-FMS) about a peculiar red fluorescing scapolite crystal is acquired some years ago. I'm trying to figure out what it is most likely to be in terms of "position" within the marialite-meionite series. I found a study which shows that meionite is unstable at temperatures below 850 ?C. Below that it would appear that forming of marialite is favoured. Another paper showed that the area in which the specimen was found belongs to an uplift (a Gondwana-collision-thing) and that occurrence of minerals that are used as geo-thermometers indicate that metamorphism happened at temperatures not exceeding 850 ? and locally as low as 600?C. >From both I was hoping to infer that my specimen is likely to be closer to the marialite side of the series than on the meionite side. Why is this so important to me: In Na- and Cl-rich marialite, there is a higher degree of order in the way that SiO4 and AlO4 tetrahedrons alternate. In meionite there is an increase of AlO4 tetrahedrons. As a result the rings of tetrahedrons that make up the anion cage (with the CO3) in it are less regular (some adjoining AlO4 tetrahedrons). If I understand correctly what 's in those papers then there would be a slight increase in the length of some Al-O and Si-O bonds (among other effects) Now, IF trivalent iron replacing Al3+ were the cause of the red fluorescence under SW-UV, like it is in some feldspars, it would show a similar spectrum since it is in the same kind of SiO4 and AlO4 tetrahedral configuration. However, if the bonds between some of those atoms starts to deviate from the "normal" lengths, then there may be some crystal field effects spoiling my attempts (grin). Therefore I would very much like to know on which side of the scapolite series my specimen resides.... Mpwapwa, Mormoro, Tanzania is in the Mautia region. Apparently the scapolite crystal was found in the marble. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 5:10 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > That was a great batch of question you asked about scapolite, Axel--lots of > good thoughts there, and I kind of doubt whether ANYONE has all the answers to > the questions you are posing. (Don made a good start at it though, in the > response he posted.) > > I believe that a lot of scapolite is pretty near 50:50 in composition > between the endmembers, so, I think a lot of it might not really vary much in > composition and also in its content, or capacity for containing, iron and other > things such as you're thinking about--it's a difference, if one were really > comparing minerals that are 95% marialite say vs. 95% meionite, vs. comparing > "marialite" that is only 55% to something that's 55% the other. So, a start > would be to just look at a source of data giving the comparative range of > composition of scapolites from the assorted best known localities for specimen and > gem scapolite. (No, I do not immediately know where to find such data; one > would have to survey the literature.) But when you found it, you would also > probably find the companion data for iron content, etc., in those scapolites, > and then you would have an empirical answer to many of the things you are > asking. > > Pete > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From llbullbull at hotmail.com Wed Sep 24 04:38:07 2008 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Sep 24 04:38:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me From: costink@uniontel.netTo: llbullbull@hotmail.com; vandytodd1@yahoo.comSubject: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:54:29 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Rezendes To: Jack/Sheila Cheetham Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:27 AM Subject: Fw: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe S. Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:30 PM Subject: FW: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:21:24 -0700From: andysdeal48@yahoo.comSubject: Fw: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!To: joe55697@hotmail.com; vcruz71@prodigy.net.mx --- On Fri, 9/19/08, joe@vbzgrapes.com wrote: From: joe@vbzgrapes.com Subject: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!To: Andrewzan@aol.com, andysdeal48@yahoo.comDate: Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:35 AM Subject More things that make you say.... OMG !!! It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.-- Chinese Proverb --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From llbullbull at hotmail.com Wed Sep 24 04:40:33 2008 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Sep 24 04:40:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry about that to early to see straight. EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me > From: llbullbull@hotmail.com> To: sogoldice@yahoo.com; bavosite@charter.net; jimcahoon70@gmail.com; kgliesman@charter.net; prgilmore@hotmail.com; paul.j.young@usace.army.mil; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:38:07 -0400> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me> > From: costink@uniontel.netTo: llbullbull@hotmail.com; vandytodd1@yahoo.comSubject: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:54:29 -0500> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alfred Rezendes > To: Jack/Sheila Cheetham > Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 10:27 AM> Subject: Fw: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe S. > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 1:30 PM> Subject: FW: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!> > > > > Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:21:24 -0700From: andysdeal48@yahoo.comSubject: Fw: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!To: joe55697@hotmail.com; vcruz71@prodigy.net.mx> > > > --- On Fri, 9/19/08, joe@vbzgrapes.com wrote:> From: joe@vbzgrapes.com Subject: More things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!To: Andrewzan@aol.com, andysdeal48@yahoo.comDate: Friday, September 19, 2008, 10:35 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More things that make you say.... OMG !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.-- Chinese Proverb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/related> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> image/jpeg> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at copper.net Wed Sep 24 10:06:02 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 24 10:06:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: things to make you say OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:40:33 -0400, Lawrence Bull wrote: >Sorry about that to early to see straight. Fortunately for me, I get only text, and none of your images came through. If you want to make images available to the list, put them somewhere and post a link. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Sep 24 10:09:29 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 24 10:09:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> Hi Axel & the List, Still inspired by your comments & questions, Axel, I've been doing a little more checking for information about the scapolite mineral series. Of course, with those really complicated chemical formulas, it is a real "can of worms", and you have to work hard to keep a clear head about you to keep straight, what the heck those two minerals in the series (marialite and meionite) correspond to (at least, it is sure a challenge for me!). [To write this here to possibly help all, without attempting to write the entire formulas, I'll just note that Marialite is the Na end-member which also is richer in Si and Cl, and Meionite is the Ca end-member, which is also richer in Al and CO3 .] That is why I would like to know whether there is a noticeable discrepancy between the occurrence of large, gemmy crystals of both species or that it's apparently not a big deal ;-) . For a start, I looked at the pictures posted for both minerals on mindat.org, and I see that, (1) the large gemmy crystals--from Tanzania and Brazil--are listed as being marialite [not saying that this is necessarily for the reasons you suggested in your post; it could just be that the conditions for growing good gem crystals more often exist in Na-rich rather than Ca-rich environments] (2) there are more photos posted on mindat for meionite (32) than for marialite (17). (3) many of the specimen photos posted on mindat for meionite (15 out of 32) are of micro specimens from the volcanic locality of?Monte Somma, Italy. (4) the mostly blocky, white, non-gemmy crystals from metamorphic rocks from Ontario, New York, Maine, and Franklin NJ, are represented by?11 photographs labelled meionite, plus 3?such?labelled marialite. Then, for a start to learn about the reported chemical range of scapolite, I looked at the info and analyses given in "An Introduction to the Rock-forming Minerals" by Deer, Howie, and Zussman.? I see that most analyses plotted in a compositional diagram there are between about 15% to 85% meionite--i.e., they are spread over a considerable range throughout the middle of the compositional series, with few or none toward the?end-member compositions--the most extreme look to be about 15% meionite (=85% marialite) and about 93% meionite (7% marialite). It seems also that the ratio of Al-occupied/Si-occupied tetrahedrons is much higher in meionite than in marialite. Something in the order of 10 to 15 % more Al than Si. Does this mean that Fe3+ substituting for Al could also occur more frequently in meionite than in marialite? The above?book lists 3 complete chemical analyses of scapolites, which correspond to compositions of 19.3%, 65.7%, and 84.8% meionite end-member; and the iron contents of those three samples are given as, respectively (one showing iron as Fe2O3 and two showing it as FeO--but who knows if those data are correct or not, because analyses giving the correct oxidation state of iron in minerals are quite difficult to obtain): 19.3% meionite? contains 0.07 wt.% Fe2O3 65.7% meionite contains 0.30 wt.% FeO 84.8% meionite contains 0.23 wt.% FeO from this limited data, one does not get any clear-cut relationship between bulk composition (meionite = higher Al content) and iron content. (Apologies to all on the list who may find all this chemistry stuff about these minerals, more than they bargain for!? But of course, no one has to read on more than is of interest to them.) cheers to Axel and to all, Pete M. . -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 4:45 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite Hi Brother Don, I stumbled upon an issue with scaoplites in which rings of SiO4 and AlO4 tetrahedrons form a cage in which an anion is "encapsulated". It appears that Cl- fits in nicely but CO3 can have four possible orientations within the cage. The CO3 anion is unable to rotate at low temperatures and in one instance of the possible positions it is believed to actually stick out of the cage some. I would, as a complete layman looking at this complex matter, infer from this that 1 in 4 unit cells of theoretically pure meionite (Ca, CO3 end member) would suffer from crystallo-chemical deviation. The electron density in that face of the unit cell would be different from the others. Moving towards the marialite end of the series would decrease the number of these "faults?". That is why I would like to know whether there is a noticeable discrepancy between the occurrence of large, gemmy crystals of both species or that it's apparently not a big deal ;-) It seems also that the ratio of Al-occupied/Si-occupied tetrahedrons is much higher in meionite than in marialite. Something in the order of 10 to 15 % more Al than Si. Does this mean that Fe3+ substituting for Al could also occur more frequently in meionite than in marialite? Greetings from Belgium where the weather is fair but chilly.... Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 11:11:14 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Sep 24 11:10:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> > For a start, I looked at the pictures posted for both minerals on mindat.org, and I see that, > Pete, This presumes, of course, that what is posted there is correct, and that the minerals have not been subject to "wishful identification." Don From ajs at frii.com Wed Sep 24 11:10:36 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Sep 24 11:10:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" Message-ID: <20080924181036.038491CC4D@io.frii.com> Sorry for coming in late, been away... Anyhow, here's an interesting picture of a bronze plaque I placed on a Colorado mountain in July 1987, taken 16 years later to the day by a friend. Note the anomalous damage to the "w" on the plaque. Best I can figure, this was due to a lightning strike. http://www.proulx.com/~susanw/AlanColumbiaPoint/ChallengerPoint030719_1.jpg Alan Silverstein From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Sep 24 12:46:21 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Sep 24 12:46:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" In-Reply-To: <20080924181036.038491CC4D@io.frii.com> References: <20080924181036.038491CC4D@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <8CAEC955A361E7A-15F0-1A42@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> That's interesting, Alan; cool that you were involved in placing that plaque.? I wonder if that was really lightning; hard to imagine, it would just affect the "w" in the middle of the plaque, who knows (one of the bolt heads looks different than the rest, too)... Pete -----Original Message----- From: Alan Silverstein To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:10 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" Sorry for coming in late, been away... Anyhow, here's an interesting picture of a bronze plaque I placed on a Colorado mountain in July 1987, taken 16 years later to the day by a friend. Note the anomalous damage to the "w" on the plaque. Best I can figure, this was due to a lightning strike. http://www.proulx.com/~susanw/AlanColumbiaPoint/ChallengerPoint030719_1.jpg Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 24 12:58:33 2008 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Sep 24 12:58:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: geology/mineralogy jobs In-Reply-To: <48D9C7B5.7@verizon.net> Message-ID: I received my Master's Degree in geology/geochemistry in 2003 and have had several geology related jobs since then. I started as a geochemist working in a research laboratory (for a cement company), then worked in mining for a few years, and have spent the last few years working for an environmental/engineering firm. Additionally, most of my friends are also employed as geologists. After recently going through school and looking for job possibilities, here are a few of my observations regarding possible careers and how to market yourself: --Obtain a Master's Degree. While it didn't necessarily get me more money, it did help me land a job and put me one step above many others with a BS. There are many many geology/environmental majors out there, so you need something to put you a little ahead. Additionally, it helps you move up quicker. --Diversify yourself. Take as many geology related classes as possible. Additionally, take numerous chemistry, engineering, environmental, and laboratory classes. My minor in chemistry has helped me get jobs. I know many people who tried to just be a classic "field" geologist, and most had a very tough time getting a job. Both field and laboratory knowlege is needed, as few spend all their time doing only one thing. Also, although I like economic geology the best, taking classes in remediation, assessment, etc. allowed me to look into other opportunities as well as just mining if needed. --Be prepared to move (at first). It is often tough to find a great geology job in your area (many jobs are fairly remote or not in large cities). By being willing to move when you first start out, it opens up many new possibilities. I have already lived in 8 states and had geology jobs in 4. --Although mining has been popular lately, it may not be a good path to take. It is often very hard to get a mining job, even with qualifications. Additionally, many metals mining jobs are great for a few years and then sink quickly due to prices, regulations, etc. Several of my friends have gone through this as the company suddenly laid everyone off and folded. Additionally, some mining companies are still part of the "good ol boys" network. If you didn't go to the right school or know the right people, it is often tough to get a foot in the door. Both my friend and I applied for a job in Morenci that we were actually somewhat overqualified for. Our resumes exceeded everything they asked for. However, we never even got a call or an email back from them. This has happened more than once, and we believe it is because we didn't go to the schools they recruit from (although we went to a very well known school). Many many people apply for these types of jobs as well. Additionally, mining jobs are often very remote. I recently turned down 2 such jobs, one was at least 2 hours from a grocery store and the other would require being in Peru for good portions of the year. I like travelling, but it's a very tough lifestyle especially now that I'm married. However, industrial minerals operations are more stable, closer to civilization, and often a bit easier to get jobs. --Hate to say this, but don't think you'll be getting a government job if all else fails. Despite being 2 miles from a major USGS office, they came to our college career fair only looking for computer, IT, and CADD/GIS people. In 3 years, I never heard of them hiring a geologist at that office. In fact, many Ph.D geologists have been laid off from there the past several years, and many of the geologists working there aren't necessarily doing much geology stuff. The BLM also hasn't seem to be hiring for many years. I applied for a job with the NRC due to my Yucca Mountain experience, and am still waiting for a call back 4 years later (despite being told I was in the front of the line). --Environmental science is fine, but a geology degree seems more credible with the companies I've worked for. I know I get paid more than I would with an ES degree. Also, if you have a geology degree, you can always take ES classes and do either. Additionally, it requires much less experience to get registered if you have a geology degree. I hope this helps, and good luck. If you ever need help finding a grad school or with what elective classes to take, please let me know. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA USA Staff Geologist Kleinfelder, Inc. Redlands, CA >From: DonH >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: geology/mineralogy jobs (was) Scapolite >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:53:09 -0700 > >Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > >>what is your impression of the job market for people who major in geology >>and mineralogy? Did you find lots of possibilities? > >Hi, > >Well, my experience is unique based upon 1) my age, 2) my previous >experience, 3) the horrible job market. Only in two cases was I told that >my life experience and my previous career in IT were an asset; in other >cases these were actually detrimental. > >I presume you are talking about getting a B.S. Right now, oil companies >are doing a lot of hiring; for that, one would need to focus on paleo, >sedimentary geo, and geophysics. Mining is also a rising tide; this >requires a focus on structure, tectonics, and economic geology. Now, I >could go on for some time about the blending of geology into other >departments--fortunately for everyone, I don't have the time to rant about >that at length. However, in brief, I would mention that hydrology is >another rising field; at U. Idaho, hydrology is part of the Geology dept., >though at other schools it may be part of engineering or "environmental >sciences." Speaking of which, "enviromental science" majors are popular as >well; jobs in remediation, environmental consulting, and water management >are rising too. > >As far as being a "mineralogist," I would submit that there is really no >such job any longer; or at least, very few, and usually reserved for PhD's >in academia. Geologists with a focus on mineralogy can find jobs as lab >analysts or materials scientists, and sometimes in state and federal >forensic labs. However, these are competitive, and you need to be able to >highlight your experience with various instruments and lab techniques >rather than what your degree is. Someone wishing to pursue this path might >want to supplement their degree with a course from McCrone Research >Institute in asbestos detection and counting methods, since that is the >popular thing right now, and will be for some time. Very few schools even >grant a degree in mineralogy any longer, and I am only a mineralogist by >virtue of the specialized work I did. In fact, Advancd Mineralogy will no >longer be offered at WSU, and I had to convince Dr. Foit to teach it one >last time. I also convinced our soils department to teach Soil Mineralogy >last semester, which is a class that comes around about every three years. >In both cases, I had to find other students to take these classes so they >could have the minimum attendance requirement. Otherwise, mineralogy is a >low-key field around here and will likely be shuffled more into the >background as time goes on. > >Quite frankly, I had a hard time finding guidance in what jobs are out >there and what concentrations are required. Those I mentioned are the main >opportunities. The BLM and USGS still hire geologists, but when you look >at the job descriptions, they seem to be focused on the hydrology and >enviromental aspects. > >The website usajobs.gov has all federal jobs posted (so they say). I would >recommend that any student sign up with this site and fill out all their >info. Once you finish the tedious process of filling out your life story, >you can search for jobs using a varaiety of keywords, and even have >automated searches set up that e-mail you with new postings. > >I would also recommend that students check out the Geological Society of >America to determine what specialties are popular right now. > >Finally, she might contact the department and ask what kinds of job >students are getting (WSU doesn't have a geology dept. any longer; it is >called the School of Earth and Enviromental Sciences, and is located in >Webster Hall). > >I hope this helps in some way. > >best, >Don > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Sep 24 13:14:07 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Sep 24 13:14:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7766A345CED54CFBA19061EE8D24B12F@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Don I had noticed the discrepancy too but I was reluctant to use that as an argument. You're quite right, Don. Some sellers (luckily far from all) are less than 100% integer qua naming the stuff they sell while some buyers just make that attitude more interesting by paying more for an unrealistically labelled specimen. On the other hand.... if we assume that there is a statistically equal percentage of meionite and marialite specimens being mislabelled then we're in business again... ;-))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens DonH > Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 20:11 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > For a start, I looked at the pictures posted for both minerals on mindat.org, and I see that, > > > > Pete, > > This presumes, of course, that what is posted there is correct, and that > the minerals have not been subject to "wishful identification." > > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 13:32:07 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Sep 24 13:31:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <7766A345CED54CFBA19061EE8D24B12F@AXELDESKTOP> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> <7766A345CED54CFBA19061EE8D24B12F@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <48DAA3C7.2050008@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Don > > I had noticed the discrepancy too but I was reluctant to use that as an > argument. > Just one more thing before I move on: the lack of good, large crystals of a species does not imply a causality based on the vagaries of the unit cell of the quirks of electron density. There are a lot of factors involved in crystal growth; and even considering the fairly advanced information I was taught, I would not go so far as to make a definitive statement regarding this issue. I read the article and I know exactly what you are wondering, but the question is a difficult one to answer. Best, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 13:37:32 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Sep 24 13:36:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: geology/mineralogy jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48DAA50C.7010806@verizon.net> Andrew Turner wrote: Thanks for the (more useful than mine) answer! I just want to emphasize: > --Diversify yourself. Take as many geology related classes as > possible. Additionally, take numerous chemistry, engineering, > environmental, and laboratory classes. Agreed! Chemistry is important; a minor in chemistry would be a big help. Plus, learn to use as many instruments as possible, even if that means taking classes in other departments. > I know many people who tried to just be a classic "field" > geologist, and most had a very tough time getting a job. Agreed! > --Be prepared to move (at first). Well, yeah. That's a given! > --Although mining has been popular lately, it may not be a good path to > take. It is often very hard to get a mining job, even with > qualifications. Verrrrry interesting. The conception among professors and staff is that "mining is booming" and "they take everyone and anyone." Also, I have read some articles that state the same thing. Mining companies regularly recruit from our school. However, as you stated, not one mining company even responded to my applications. So, I suppose some caution is required if one wants to go into mining... doing research ahead of time is a good idea. best, Don From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 18:57:43 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 24 18:57:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don and Pete, I generally agree with Don's statement about mindat postings. Using the Sanford, ME locality as an example. The available references for this locality identify meionite as being found there. Thus when amateur collectors find something that matches the color and crystal form they will typically use the references to ID the specimen. It is not so much "wishful identification" but using the best information available when you don't have access to a lab to do a more precise ID. Having said that I certainly would not recommend using mindat listings of mineral IDs for a scientific purpose. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 2:11 PM, DonH wrote: > > For a start, I looked at the pictures posted for both minerals on >> mindat.org, and I see that, >> >> > Pete, > > This presumes, of course, that what is posted there is correct, and that > the minerals have not been subject to "wishful identification." > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Sep 24 20:40:04 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Sep 24 20:39:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> Message-ID: <48DB0814.20602@verizon.net> Nathan Martin wrote: > It is not so much "wishful identification" but using the best information > available when you don't have access to a lab to do a more precise ID. Hi, Well I guess it's a matter of semantics--I include that under wishful ID. If I don't know what it is, then I don't put a name on it. Having spent time in the Franklin/Sterling Hill area, I have been subject to this more times than I can count; after which I developed the maxim: when presented with a mineral that is visually indistinct from both a common species and a similar rare species, the collector will invariably assign it the name of the rare species. This often frustrates students who think just because I am a "mineralogist" I can sight-ID all 4,000+ species. Upon seeing a rather bland and indistinct assemblage thrust in front of me and being asked "what is this?", my first response is usually "It's a rock." Of course we work on it after that... Don From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Sep 24 23:39:05 2008 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Wed Sep 24 23:39:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" References: <20080924181036.038491CC4D@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <001f01c91ed9$69115590$655fe842@Titans> Alan, Thank you for the placement of that plaque in such lofty places, upon investigation, was that top right fastener also hit by lightning ? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" > Sorry for coming in late, been away... Anyhow, here's an interesting > picture of a bronze plaque I placed on a Colorado mountain in July 1987, > taken 16 years later to the day by a friend. Note the anomalous damage > to the "w" on the plaque. Best I can figure, this was due to a > lightning strike. > > http://www.proulx.com/~susanw/AlanColumbiaPoint/ChallengerPoint030719_1.jpg > > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 25 11:23:50 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 25 11:23:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kreigh, In the case of scapolite the crystal unit cell is a 3-D cage of tetrahedrons, alternating AlO4 and SiO4 with increasing AlO4 content towards the meionite end of the series. The cage can enclose a CO3 completely in 3 of its 4 possible position. In one position there is an oxygen atom sticking out, apparently. There's also a possible rotation of rings of tetrahedrons relative to each other. This would break the symmetry of the tetrahedrons qua orientation. Ideally you would see one of the tetrahedron pointing outwards of the cage with its tip while the adjoining tetrahedrons point inwards. So if you follow one direction of the network around the anion-cage, jumping from one tetrahedron to the next, you would se the tip of the tetrahedrons sticking in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out in any direction you take. Also you see that each AlO4 is surrounded by 3 SiO4. When Ca2+ and CO3 concentrations increase while you move from the theoretical marialite composition (with Cl- in the cage) to meionite there (if I understood the paper I read ;-) are two thing happening: 1) the in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out symmetry is broken and there are some tetrahedrons pointing in the same direction as their neighbours. 2) more adjoining Al-occupied tetrahedrons occur. I can only guess what this does with the development of crystals... On the other hand: if all crystals needed to be either perfect or gone, us collectors would be left with empty shelves ;-))) > Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often > introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the > distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; the > need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. Yes there seems o be slight changes in distance between the atoms in some of the Si-O bonds. In the order of a few picometers but I don't fully grasp the significance of that... I think it means that the Si and Al are not in the centre of the tetrahedrons and their "offset" changes a little with the position in the marialite-meionite series (as do the angles between the Si-O bonds. I don't know if that would influence the crystal shape because it's only the angles between the tetrahedrons relative to each other that would define the outer shape of the crystal (I think). Hehe... much has been written about this Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 4:16 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > Axel, > > I think the key question is what is the unit cell for crystal > formation? Quartz uses three molecules as a unit cell to provide a > shape that stacks well to make crystals. > > Single molecules often have some atom sticking out one edge that makes > it difficult to stack them, but if you combine two or more into a unit, > often introducing handedness, you end up with a regular shape that can > stack. > > Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often > introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the > distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; the > need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. > > Kreigh > > > > > On Monday, Sep 22, 2008, at 06:49 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Hi Kreigh, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the search but I'm afraid that the text you found only > > states > > that: > > > > " The other members of the group, meionite, mizzonite and marialite, > > are > > much rarer in occurrence. Their crystals are usually smaller and of > > better > > quality than those of wernerite. Meionite and missonite (misspelled > > mizzonite?) are found in limestone blocks on Monte Somma." > > > > > > > > That's throwing in all the scapolite group ;-))) Mizzonite and > > wernerite are > > not recognized by the IMA. > > > > Mizzonite is still sometimes used to indicate a scapolite with > > composition > > closer to that of marialite. The article describes wernerite as > > somewhere in > > the mid-section between marialite and meionite but somewhat closer to > > the > > meionite-end. > > > > My question came up after reading: > > http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM51/AM51_1014.pdf > > > > It's on page 9, last paragraph. > > > > It's much more complex than I like my reading but it got me thinking. > > conflicting symmetries that disturb electron densities could lead to > > disturbed growth, could it not? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > > > >> Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 2:59 > > > >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >> collectors > > > >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > >> > > > >> Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See > > > >> http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php > > > >> from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. > > > >> > > > >> Kreigh > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Hi list, > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > > > >>> > > > >>> Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, > >>> is > > > >>> less > > > >>> likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > > > >>> end-member > > > >>> marialite? > > > >>> > > > >>> It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by the > > > >>> carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the > >>> unit > > > >>> cell. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Anybody who knows? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Axel > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > >>> multipart/alternative > > > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > >>> text/html > > > >>> --- > > > >>> -- > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > >>> Subscription Services: > > > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > >> Subscription Services: > > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 25 12:00:24 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:00:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Nate > It is not so much "wishful identification" but using the best information > available when you don't have access to a lab to do a more precise ID. > [Axel] yeah, It helps if you know some people in labs ;-))) From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 25 12:03:04 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:03:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48DB0814.20602@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> <48DB0814.20602@verizon.net> Message-ID: > This often frustrates students who think just because I am a > "mineralogist" I can sight-ID all 4,000+ species. Upon seeing a rather > bland and indistinct assemblage thrust in front of me and being asked > "what is this?", my first response is usually "It's a rock." [Axel] How on earth did you pass that exam ????? LOL Good maxim, btw. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 25 12:25:36 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:25:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <48DAA3C7.2050008@verizon.net> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><7766A345CED54CFBA19061EE8D24B12F@AXELDESKTOP> <48DAA3C7.2050008@verizon.net> Message-ID: <702AA75E646F4822B8C6780629A8BFC1@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Don, > I read the article and I know exactly what you are wondering, but the > question is a difficult one to answer. [Axel] There are indeed easier things to lie awake from at night ;-))) Best Axel From ajs at frii.com Thu Sep 25 12:39:03 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:39:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] bronze "fulgurite" In-Reply-To: <8CAEC955A361E7A-15F0-1A42@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080925193903.B4FBA1CC4A@io.frii.com> Pete et al, > That's interesting, Alan; cool that you were involved in placing that > plaque. It's a long story, which you can find out on the web somewhere if interested, although I haven't HTMLized the trip report yet. Oh, here's a copy: http://previous.cmc.org/cmc/rpt/chlngrpt.html Wow, there's even a Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_Point Also years later I helped with the Columbia Point plaque: http://silgro.com/trip_reports/2003.0718-0809_ColumbiaPoint.htm In 1987, NASA wouldn't talk with us, and the media had little interest. It was a private expedition I assembled, seven people, to place the plaque on July 19, 1987 (I think). Quite a challenge getting it done! > I wonder if that was really lightning; hard to imagine, it would just > affect the "w" in the middle of the plaque, who knows (one of the bolt > heads looks different than the rest, too)... The upper right bolt is not stainless, a long story, I goofed up, and when I returned a few years later with a longer stainless bolt, I couldn't get the old one out. Alan From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Sep 25 12:45:09 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Sep 25 12:45:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Pete > > [To write this here to possibly help all, without attempting to write the entire formulas, I'll > just note that Marialite is the Na end-member which also is richer in Si and Cl, and Meionite > is the Ca end-member, which is also richer in Al and CO3 .] [Axel] They are "theoretical" end-members or do they actually exist? > For a start, I looked at the pictures posted for both minerals on mindat.org, and I see that, > > (1) the large gemmy crystals--from Tanzania and Brazil--are listed as being marialite [not > saying that this is necessarily for the reasons you suggested in your post; it could just be > that the conditions for growing good gem crystals more often exist in Na-rich rather than > Ca-rich environments] [Axel] I read that the scapolite series is used as a "geothermometer". Is that still the case or do we use more modern methods now? > (2) there are more photos posted on mindat for meionite (32) than for marialite (17). [Axel] I noticed that. Mine has an almost cylindrical prism body. All those on on mindat that have the same habit are labelled Marialite. > Then, for a start to learn about the reported chemical range of scapolite, I looked at the > info and analyses given in "An Introduction to the Rock-forming Minerals" by Deer, Howie, > and Zussman.? I see that most analyses plotted in a compositional diagram there are between > about 15% to 85% meionite [Axel] which roughly corresponds for the "limits" I founds for wernerite somewhere ;-)))) --i.e., they are spread over a considerable range throughout the > middle of the compositional series, with few or none toward the?end-member compositions-- > the most extreme look to be about 15% meionite (=85% marialite) and about 93% meionite > (7% marialite). > [Axel] Formed in metamorphic conditions in marble (often)... it would be a surprise to find NO Ca and CO3 (I think even SO4 is possible?) > > > The above?book lists 3 complete chemical analyses of scapolites, which correspond to > compositions of 19.3%, 65.7%, and 84.8% meionite end-member; and the iron contents of > those three samples are given as, respectively (one showing iron as Fe2O3 and two showing it > as FeO--but who knows if those data are correct or not, because analyses giving the correct > oxidation state of iron in minerals are quite difficult to obtain): > > 19.3% meionite? contains 0.07 wt.% Fe2O3 > 65.7% meionite contains 0.30 wt.% FeO > 84.8% meionite contains 0.23 wt.% FeO > from this limited data, one does not get any clear-cut relationship between bulk composition > (meionite = higher Al content) and iron content. [Axel] Then there's iron and iron... Fe2+ replacing Ca or Mg would kill fluorescence, Fe3+ replacing Al in tetrahedral coordination could possibly do the same as in albite or other felspars. I need a spectrum :-))) [Axel] Thanks for helping, Pete (and Don and Earl and all the others) Axel From pmodreski at aol.com Thu Sep 25 13:34:16 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 25 13:34:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> <9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> (OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) A little more data, for Axel & all, (1) I looked through my files and found a good article, by Teertstra & Sherriff, 1996, Am. Min. v. 81, 169-180 (it should be online too, via the MSA website), which gives complete chemical analyses, and other (XRD, etc.) data, for some 20 scapolite samples from around the world.? For my own interest I typed out a list of the 20 localities and their composition in terms of % of the meionite (calcium) endmember--if anyone would like to see this, please just write to me & I'll email it back to you.? But here is a quick summary of what it shows: 0-20% meionite: 2 samples (Pamirs, Russia, light violet gem crystal, and Gooderham, Ontairo, opaque blue-gray) 20-40% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Ontario, Tanzania, Brazil) 40-60% meionite: 7 samples (Quebec, Ontario, New York, Madagascar, Tanzania) 60-80% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Massachusetts, Russia (Slyudyanka) 80-100% meionite: 1 sample (Monte Somma, Italy; 96.5% meionite) This article also mentioned that it used, as a standard for microprobe analysis, a "gem quality meionite from Brazil, U.S. National Museum No. R6600-1", but it doesn't give the exact composition of that specimen. (2) I see that there was also a paper published, "On the composition of gem scapolites", by Pete J. Dunn et al., 1978, Journal of Gemmology, v. 16, pp. 4-10.? I don't have a copy of this paper now, but I'm requesting one via our library. (3) The mention above of the USNM meionite gave me the idea of checking the U.S. National Museum of Natural History's (Smithsonian Institute) catalog, which is searchable online--it is at, http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/pages/nmnh/ms/Query.php The result is interesting--I searched according to what mineral name specimens are catalogued under, which of course is subject to the same caveats expressed here for Mindat entries--yes, I agree, one doesn't know how accurate the "meionite vs. marialite" entries for any of the specimens are, though one might hope that the Smithsonian catalog information is more authoritative than most.? Here's what the catalog shows: "Scapolite" - 621 entries "Marialite" - 35 entries (including 8 from U.S., 6 Canada, 6 Tanzania, 3 Madagascar, 1 Brazil, 1 Mozambique) "Meionite" - 67 entries (including 25 "Vesuvio", 8 Brazil, 7 U.S., 6 Canada, 2 Madagascar, 1 Tanzania, 1 Kenya, 1 Burma) "Wernerite" - 12 entries "Mizzonite" - 18 entries Of course, most of the Smithsonian specimens I'm sure have not been analyzed,?but just catalogued under the mineral name by which they were received; hence, the large number of "just plain scapolite" entries. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 1:00 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite Hi Nate > It is not so much "wishful identification" but using the best information > available when you don't have access to a lab to do a more precise ID. > [Axel] yeah, It helps if you know some people in labs ;-))) -- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcessna at nist.gov Thu Sep 25 14:42:57 2008 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Thu Sep 25 14:43:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <48D80526.8080603@verizon.net> <8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com> <48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net> <9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080925173625.02418118@nist.gov> At 04:34 PM 9/25/2008, you wrote: >(OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) Ditto. I assume that you all have looked at the crystal structure java applets on webmineral. If you really want to give your eyes a work out you can look at them in stereo. Its easier if you use the large pop-up and reduce the size 1 or 2 steps after you make it stereo (S on your keyboard). http://webmineral.com/data/Scapolite.shtml http://webmineral.com/data/Marialite.shtml http://webmineral.com/data/Meionite.shtml I don't know if this is useful, but it is fun. -Jeff From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 25 17:54:16 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 25 17:54:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Axel, I think the paper below may shed some light on the crystal structure of the Scapolite series and move you closer to an answer to your questions. Recommended reading material if you are losing sleep over Scapolite crystal structures. Kreigh ==== http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM70/AM70_134.pdf Scapolite: alkali atom configurations, antiphase domains, and compositional Yariations C. Pece CHerasenLeIN, Jnuet A. Docre, Jeprnr,v E. Posr, nNo Cnenres W. BunNneu Department of Geological Sciences Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 Abstract Electrostatic energy calculations on an intermediate scapolite indicate that Na+ should prefer to be adjacent to Cl- anions and Ca2* to be adjacent to CO3- radicals. The calculations also indicate that short-range ordering of NarCl and CaaCO3 clusters is energetically favored and might give rise to antiphase domains. Electrical neutrality considerations on the anion/radical site in scapolite suggest that the unusual compositional variations observed in the marialite-meionite series are the result of crystallographic constraints on the two possible independent exchange reactions in scapolite: NaCICaCO-3 and NaSie6-Ai. The compositions of naturally occurring scapolites may be explained in terms of the scapolite composition that represents local charge balance between Ca2*, Na* cations and Cl-, COI- anions. On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 14:23 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Kreigh, > > In the case of scapolite the crystal unit cell is a 3-D cage of > tetrahedrons, alternating AlO4 and SiO4 with increasing AlO4 content > towards > the meionite end of the series. The cage can enclose a CO3 completely > in 3 > of its 4 possible position. In one position there is an oxygen atom > sticking > out, apparently. > There's also a possible rotation of rings of tetrahedrons relative to > each > other. This would break the symmetry of the tetrahedrons qua > orientation. > Ideally you would see one of the tetrahedron pointing outwards of the > cage > with its tip while the adjoining tetrahedrons point inwards. So if you > follow one direction of the network around the anion-cage, jumping > from one > tetrahedron to the next, you would se the tip of the tetrahedrons > sticking > in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out in any direction you > take. > Also you see that each AlO4 is surrounded by 3 SiO4. > When Ca2+ and CO3 concentrations increase while you move from the > theoretical marialite composition (with Cl- in the cage) to meionite > there > (if I understood the paper I read ;-) are two thing happening: > 1) the in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out symmetry is broken and there are > some > tetrahedrons pointing in the same direction as their neighbours. > 2) more adjoining Al-occupied tetrahedrons occur. > I can only guess what this does with the development of crystals... On > the > other hand: if all crystals needed to be either perfect or gone, us > collectors would > be left with empty shelves ;-))) > >> Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often >> introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the >> distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; >> the >> need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. > > Yes there seems o be slight changes in distance between the atoms in > some of > the Si-O bonds. In the order of a few picometers but I don't fully > grasp the > significance of that... I think it means that the Si and Al are not in > the > centre of the tetrahedrons and their "offset" changes a little with the > position in the marialite-meionite series (as do the angles between > the Si-O > bonds. I don't know if that would influence the crystal shape because > it's > only the angles between the tetrahedrons relative to each other that > would > define the outer shape of the crystal (I think). > > Hehe... much has been written about this > > Cheers > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >> Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 4:16 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite >> >> Axel, >> >> I think the key question is what is the unit cell for crystal >> formation? Quartz uses three molecules as a unit cell to provide a >> shape that stacks well to make crystals. >> >> Single molecules often have some atom sticking out one edge that makes >> it difficult to stack them, but if you combine two or more into a >> unit, >> often introducing handedness, you end up with a regular shape that can >> stack. >> >> Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often >> introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the >> distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; >> the >> need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, Sep 22, 2008, at 06:49 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Kreigh, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for the search but I'm afraid that the text you found only >>> states >>> that: >>> >>> " The other members of the group, meionite, mizzonite and marialite, >>> are >>> much rarer in occurrence. Their crystals are usually smaller and of >>> better >>> quality than those of wernerite. Meionite and missonite (misspelled >>> mizzonite?) are found in limestone blocks on Monte Somma." >>> >>> >>> >>> That's throwing in all the scapolite group ;-))) Mizzonite and >>> wernerite are >>> not recognized by the IMA. >>> >>> Mizzonite is still sometimes used to indicate a scapolite with >>> composition >>> closer to that of marialite. The article describes wernerite as >>> somewhere in >>> the mid-section between marialite and meionite but somewhat closer to >>> the >>> meionite-end. >>> >>> My question came up after reading: >>> http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM51/AM51_1014.pdf >>> >>> It's on page 9, last paragraph. >>> >>> It's much more complex than I like my reading but it got me thinking. >>> conflicting symmetries that disturb electron densities could lead to >>> disturbed growth, could it not? >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Axel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> >>>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >>> >>>> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >>> >>>> Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 2:59 >>> >>>> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>>> collectors >>> >>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See >>> >>>> http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php >>> >>>> from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Kreigh >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Hi list, >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, >>>>> is >>> >>>>> less >>> >>>>> likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl >>> >>>>> end-member >>> >>>>> marialite? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by >>>>> the >>> >>>>> carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the >>>>> unit >>> >>>>> cell. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Anybody who knows? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Cheers >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Axel >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> >>>>> multipart/alternative >>> >>>>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> >>>>> text/html >>> >>>>> --- >>> >>>>> -- >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> >>>>> Subscription Services: >>> >>>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> >>>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> >>>> Subscription Services: >>> >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 25 18:05:57 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:06:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals Message-ID: <46A77204-8B67-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> I just got a note from my club president with a head's-up that "The National Geographic channel will be presenting the Program, The cave of giant crystals on Sunday evening October 12 at 9 pm". I'm passing it on to other rockhounds as requested, but I won't get to see it because I don't have cable. Hopefully one of my club members will tape it and share. From hammerron at yahoo.com Thu Sep 25 18:11:55 2008 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:12:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Message-ID: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 25 18:24:36 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:24:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: 2007 KY Fluorite Fieldtrip Reports - Final Installment (was: Got Fluorite?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you Nate! It has been a real pleasure to read your vivid installments of a great collecting trip. Kreigh On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 23:07 America/Detroit, Nathan Martin wrote: > > Here is the final installment of my 2007 KY fluorite fieldtrip log. > > ---------------10/12/07-------------- > On Monday night a cold front moved through the Marion, KY area > bringing a > little rain, some thunder and lightning and a much-appreciated break > to the > heat. The sunrise Tuesday morning was spectacular as the diffracted > rays of > the sun just below the horizon gave pink edges to the departing > clouds. I > had called Bill Frazier the night before to tell him that there were 4 > of us > who wanted to go back for one more day at the Eureka Mine. I also > told him > that I would show him a promising location to do some excavating to > enhance > future collecting at the mine. At 8 AM the four diehards (Bret > Howard, June > Epp, John Campbell and Nate Martin) met Bill at the museum parking lot > and > headed back out to the mine. As we drove through the KY countryside > and > turned onto Columbia Mine Road I couldn't help thinking that this > might well > be my last time to see this particular part of the world. This was > now my > fourth trip to the area and there are so many other places that I want > to > collect that I may not be coming back to this particular spot again. I > reminded myself that this is the way life is and you need to simply > enjoy > the journey. > > When we got to the mine I took Bill up to the prospect pit that had > been so > productive the day before and we showed him examples of some of the > material > that we had found. When I recommended that he do some excavating > there for > future collecting his reply was, "When will the Boston Mineral Club be > coming back? Your club found this spot and you should benefit from its > excavation!" I didn't exactly know what to say so I simply told him > that I > would let him know one way or the other. > > I had originally planned to go up to the Columbia mine to do some > fluorescent collecting under my newly made blackout cloth. However, I > couldn't resist completing the digging out of the area around a dead > tree > that Ed Norton and I had worked on the day before. The weather was > cool and > the air was dry and comfortable, such a pleasant change from the past 3 > days. I started my digging in the compact KY clay using my Estwing > miner's > pick to find rocks within about 6" of the surface. When you do this > you > just hope that the crystals are facing down. The sound of a steel tool > breaking fluorite crystals is not a pleasant one and I heard it several > times. A three-pronged garden tool was useful in digging out a rock > once it > was exposed. By noon, I had covered a roughly 6' by 6' area and had > found > nearly two dozen specimens ranging from thumbnail specimens that I > found > hidden in lumps of clay to hand-sized small cabinet specimens studded > with > fluorite cubes and rectangular prisms. Most of the fluorite crystals > are > dark purple but I found a few of the pretty pale lavender variety that > I had > seen others collect. The crystals at this spot also did not exhibit > the > stepped growth patterns that I had previously seen from the Eureka > pit, but > instead were sharp smooth crystal faces with sizes ranging from 1/8" to > 5/8". After eating lunch, I set up a wash bucket to clean up the > specimens > I had collected and then sorted out the keepers and wrapped them up > carefully for the long trip home. I never did make it up to the > Columbia > mine but I had clearly made the right decision as to where to collect. > > John Campbell left around 1:30 PM to catch his flight out of Nashville > and I > left around 3:00 PM. Bret and June stayed on since they were not > heading > back to their home in Pittsburgh until the next day. Before leaving I > visited Yoder's Variety store and bought an assortment of jellies and > butters (its hard to get elderberry jelly and strawberry butter out > here on > the east coast). On the way out of town I picked up one last Marion > Pit BBQ > sandwich with baked beans and coleslaw to have for dinner on the road > and > headed up state road 60 toward Evansville, IN and the long 1200 mile > drive > home. > > On Wednesday I couldn't resist cutting through Indiana to collect at > another > geode site. This one featured optically clear calcite crystals in > quartz > and dolomite. If I had the time and energy I would have gotten out my > saw > to try to rescue some of the larger geodes with better calcite crystals > inside but neither time nor energy were available in great abundance > so I > collected what I could and then hit the road again. I made it as far > as > Youngstown, OH on Wednesday and then drove the rest of the way home on > Thursday. The constant rain "dampened" my enthusiasm for any > additional > collecting stops even though Peter Cristofono had found good plant > fossils > at one of the I80 exits in PA on his way out to KY. > > The inexpensive way to get great specimens is to buy them! But a trip > like > this is not about the economics of building a mineral collection. The > shared experience of visiting a distant locality with a congenial > group of > collectors, gaining a sense of its history and geology and uncovering > its > beauty in crystals long hidden in the earth is in the words of the > current > credit card commercial, "priceless". My thanks to Ed Norton, Steve > Towne, > Bob Lancaster, Peter Cristofono, Linda Frahm, Bret Howard, June Epp, > Don > Swenson, Kieth & Cindy Newman, John Chipman, Ted Straiton, Rob & Jenn > Sawyer > and John Campbell for their partnership in this adventure. I had a > great > time. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 25 18:47:50 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 25 18:47:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20A008DB-8B6D-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Ron, Natural Quartz crystal has 99 percent or more silicon dioxide content verses glass items that typically contain 80 percent or less silicon dioxide. Specific Gravity should give you an effective test. Kreigh On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 21:11 America/Detroit, The Hammer wrote: > I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that > it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is > roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions > for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? > > Ron > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Sep 25 19:29:05 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 25 19:29:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Message-ID: I'll try too... Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or cloudy patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a magnifying lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such imperfections closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably glass. If they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't see ANY such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one couldn't be absolutely certain. Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at least slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles perhaps. Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". One easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter with an accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the specific gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from high school & college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams per cubic centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two are so close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish them, I'm afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 g/cc, but can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is glass) are even higher. Oh well. cheers, Pete **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 25 22:35:51 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu Sep 25 22:35:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Message-ID: <678011.33841.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> "Would anyone have suggestions for the best ways to distinguish whether it is quartz or glass?" Ron A hammer...... ditto to what Pete has said Eman From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 26 02:24:31 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 26 02:24:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Pete, Thank you for sending the list. I guess the scapolite story is no different from most continuous series. If you look at the results: 0-20% meionite: 2 samples 20-40% meionite: 5 samples 40-60% meionite: 7 samples 60-80% meionite: 5 samples 80-100% meionite: 1 sample Now that is a classical Gaussian bell curve if ever I saw one. ;-))) It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: donderdag 25 september 2008 22:34 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > (OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) > > A little more data, for Axel & all, > > (1) I looked through my files and found a good article, by Teertstra & Sherriff, 1996, Am. > Min. v. 81, 169-180 (it should be online too, via the MSA website), which gives complete > chemical analyses, and other (XRD, etc.) data, for some 20 scapolite samples from around the > world.? For my own interest I typed out a list of the 20 localities and their composition in > terms of % of the meionite (calcium) endmember--if anyone would like to see this, please just > write to me & I'll email it back to you.? But here is a quick summary of what it shows: > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples (Pamirs, Russia, light violet gem crystal, and Gooderham, Ontairo, > opaque blue-gray) > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Ontario, Tanzania, Brazil) > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples (Quebec, Ontario, New York, Madagascar, Tanzania) > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Massachusetts, Russia (Slyudyanka) > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample (Monte Somma, Italy; 96.5% meionite) > > This article also mentioned that it used, as a standard for microprobe analysis, a "gem quality > meionite from Brazil, U.S. National Museum No. R6600-1", but it doesn't give the exact > composition of that specimen. > > (2) I see that there was also a paper published, "On the composition of gem scapolites", by > Pete J. Dunn et al., 1978, Journal of Gemmology, v. 16, pp. 4-10.? I don't have a copy of this > paper now, but I'm requesting one via our library. > > (3) The mention above of the USNM meionite gave me the idea of checking the U.S. National > Museum of Natural History's (Smithsonian Institute) catalog, which is searchable online--it > is at, > http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/pages/nmnh/ms/Query.php > The result is interesting--I searched according to what mineral name specimens are > catalogued under, which of course is subject to the same caveats expressed here for Mindat > entries--yes, I agree, one doesn't know how accurate the "meionite vs. marialite" entries for > any of the specimens are, though one might hope that the Smithsonian catalog information is > more authoritative than most.? Here's what the catalog shows: > > "Scapolite" - 621 entries > > "Marialite" - 35 entries (including 8 from U.S., 6 Canada, 6 Tanzania, 3 Madagascar, 1 Brazil, > 1 Mozambique) > > "Meionite" - 67 entries (including 25 "Vesuvio", 8 Brazil, 7 U.S., 6 Canada, 2 Madagascar, 1 > Tanzania, 1 Kenya, 1 Burma) > > "Wernerite" - 12 entries > > "Mizzonite" - 18 entries > > Of course, most of the Smithsonian specimens I'm sure have not been analyzed,?but just > catalogued under the mineral name by which they were received; hence, the large number of > "just plain scapolite" entries. > > Pete From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 26 02:32:40 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 26 02:32:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080925173625.02418118@nist.gov> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP><8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20080925173625.02418118@nist.gov> Message-ID: <0B821B21E511499E9BD8B8B9EA75FEFA@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Jeff, I looked at the links you provided. Fun it is ;-))) In the structure-pop-up (enlargement) of meionite there is NO Al3+ to be seen. Normally it should because the Al/Si ratio increases when you shift from marialite to meionite. Also there a quite a few structures proposed for each of the minerals. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Jeffrey T. Cessna > Verzonden: donderdag 25 september 2008 23:43 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > At 04:34 PM 9/25/2008, you wrote: > >(OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) > > Ditto. > > I assume that you all have looked at the crystal structure java > applets on webmineral. If you really want to give your eyes a work > out you can look at them in stereo. Its easier if you use the large > pop-up and reduce the size 1 or 2 steps after you make it stereo (S > on your keyboard). > > http://webmineral.com/data/Scapolite.shtml > http://webmineral.com/data/Marialite.shtml > http://webmineral.com/data/Meionite.shtml > > I don't know if this is useful, but it is fun. > > -Jeff > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 03:18:17 2008 From: thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com (rohana contessa) Date: Fri Sep 26 03:18:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals In-Reply-To: <46A77204-8B67-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <225736.49712.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello All, ? My sister in law from Tucson sent me this power point slide show of the giant crystal cave in Naica, Mexico.? Click the attachment?to upload and view.. it is quite something :)? Let me know if you can't see it for any reason.? Rohana --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:05 PM I just got a note from my club president with a head's-up that "The National Geographic channel will be presenting the Program, The cave of giant crystals on Sunday evening October 12 at 9 pm". I'm passing it on to other rockhounds as requested, but I won't get to see it because I don't have cable. Hopefully one of my club members will tape it and share. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/vnd.ms-powerpoint --- From thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 03:22:26 2008 From: thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com (rohana contessa) Date: Fri Sep 26 03:22:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <641223.8645.qm@web52611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ron, ? I did not see the other replies to this, but here are a few ways to tell if the sphere is quartz or not.? The first and most obvious give away to glass is air bubbles inside.? In quartz, you would most likely see internal foils, veils, perhaps a rainbow or other natural inclusions/impurities.? If the sphere is internally flawless, you may have melted down/reconstituted quartz.? Rohana --- On Thu, 9/25/08, The Hammer wrote: From: The Hammer Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question To: "post Rockhounds" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:11 PM I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 26 03:28:30 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 26 03:28:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4704CB87F40A4269A3C8FDCA34949ADD@AXELDESKTOP> Hi Kreigh, It does and doesn't ;-))) At First sight, I mean. I'm going to read it carefully and take my time for it.... Thanks, this looks promising (If I can understand what it says ;-))) A xel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 2:54 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > Axel, > > I think the paper below may shed some light on the crystal structure of > the Scapolite series and move you closer to an answer to your > questions. Recommended reading material if you are losing sleep over > Scapolite crystal structures. > > Kreigh > > > ==== > > http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM70/AM70_134.pdf > > > Scapolite: alkali atom configurations, antiphase domains, and > compositional Yariations > > C. Pece CHerasenLeIN, Jnuet A. Docre, Jeprnr,v E. Posr, nNo Cnenres > W. BunNneu > Department of Geological Sciences > Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 > > > Abstract > > Electrostatic energy calculations on an intermediate scapolite indicate > that Na+ should prefer to be adjacent to Cl- anions and Ca2* to be > adjacent to CO3- radicals. The calculations also indicate that > short-range ordering of NarCl and CaaCO3 clusters is energetically > favored and might give rise to antiphase domains. Electrical neutrality > considerations on the anion/radical site in scapolite suggest that the > unusual compositional variations observed in the marialite-meionite > series are the result of crystallographic constraints on the two > possible independent exchange reactions in scapolite: NaCICaCO-3 and > NaSie6-Ai. The compositions of naturally occurring scapolites may be > explained in terms of the scapolite composition that represents local > charge balance between Ca2*, Na* cations and Cl-, COI- anions. > > > > On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 14:23 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Kreigh, > > > > In the case of scapolite the crystal unit cell is a 3-D cage of > > tetrahedrons, alternating AlO4 and SiO4 with increasing AlO4 content > > towards > > the meionite end of the series. The cage can enclose a CO3 completely > > in 3 > > of its 4 possible position. In one position there is an oxygen atom > > sticking > > out, apparently. > > There's also a possible rotation of rings of tetrahedrons relative to > > each > > other. This would break the symmetry of the tetrahedrons qua > > orientation. > > Ideally you would see one of the tetrahedron pointing outwards of the > > cage > > with its tip while the adjoining tetrahedrons point inwards. So if you > > follow one direction of the network around the anion-cage, jumping > > from one > > tetrahedron to the next, you would se the tip of the tetrahedrons > > sticking > > in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out in any direction you > > take. > > Also you see that each AlO4 is surrounded by 3 SiO4. > > When Ca2+ and CO3 concentrations increase while you move from the > > theoretical marialite composition (with Cl- in the cage) to meionite > > there > > (if I understood the paper I read ;-) are two thing happening: > > 1) the in-out- in-out- in-out- in-out symmetry is broken and there are > > some > > tetrahedrons pointing in the same direction as their neighbours. > > 2) more adjoining Al-occupied tetrahedrons occur. > > I can only guess what this does with the development of crystals... On > > the > > other hand: if all crystals needed to be either perfect or gone, us > > collectors would > > be left with empty shelves ;-))) > > > >> Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often > >> introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the > >> distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; > >> the > >> need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. > > > > Yes there seems o be slight changes in distance between the atoms in > > some of > > the Si-O bonds. In the order of a few picometers but I don't fully > > grasp the > > significance of that... I think it means that the Si and Al are not in > > the > > centre of the tetrahedrons and their "offset" changes a little with the > > position in the marialite-meionite series (as do the angles between > > the Si-O > > bonds. I don't know if that would influence the crystal shape because > > it's > > only the angles between the tetrahedrons relative to each other that > > would > > define the outer shape of the crystal (I think). > > > > Hehe... much has been written about this > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > >> Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2008 4:16 > >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >> collectors > >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > >> > >> Axel, > >> > >> I think the key question is what is the unit cell for crystal > >> formation? Quartz uses three molecules as a unit cell to provide a > >> shape that stacks well to make crystals. > >> > >> Single molecules often have some atom sticking out one edge that makes > >> it difficult to stack them, but if you combine two or more into a > >> unit, > >> often introducing handedness, you end up with a regular shape that can > >> stack. > >> > >> Mashing two or more molecules together into a unit cell often > >> introduces some distortions into the bondings. If you can hide the > >> distortions inside a unit cell then large crystals become possible; > >> the > >> need to make unit cells makes any crystals less likely. > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Monday, Sep 22, 2008, at 06:49 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Kreigh, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for the search but I'm afraid that the text you found only > >>> states > >>> that: > >>> > >>> " The other members of the group, meionite, mizzonite and marialite, > >>> are > >>> much rarer in occurrence. Their crystals are usually smaller and of > >>> better > >>> quality than those of wernerite. Meionite and missonite (misspelled > >>> mizzonite?) are found in limestone blocks on Monte Somma." > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> That's throwing in all the scapolite group ;-))) Mizzonite and > >>> wernerite are > >>> not recognized by the IMA. > >>> > >>> Mizzonite is still sometimes used to indicate a scapolite with > >>> composition > >>> closer to that of marialite. The article describes wernerite as > >>> somewhere in > >>> the mid-section between marialite and meionite but somewhat closer to > >>> the > >>> meionite-end. > >>> > >>> My question came up after reading: > >>> http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM51/AM51_1014.pdf > >>> > >>> It's on page 9, last paragraph. > >>> > >>> It's much more complex than I like my reading but it got me thinking. > >>> conflicting symmetries that disturb electron densities could lead to > >>> disturbed growth, could it not? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> > >>> Axel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >>> > >>>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > >>> > >>>> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > >>> > >>>> Verzonden: maandag 22 september 2008 2:59 > >>> > >>>> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>>> collectors > >>> > >>>> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> Meionite is less likely to be found as large crystals. See > >>> > >>>> http://www.miningbasics.com/html/scapolite_group_-_wernerite_co.php > >>> > >>>> from my "I'm Feeling Lucky" Google search. > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> Kreigh > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> On Sunday, Sep 21, 2008, at 18:11 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > >>>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>>> Hi list, > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm doing some pondering on scapolite. > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> Does anybody know whether the Ca and CO3-rich end-member, meionite, > >>>>> is > >>> > >>>>> less > >>> > >>>>> likely to be found well formed, large crystals than the Na and Cl > >>> > >>>>> end-member > >>> > >>>>> marialite? > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> It should have something to do with crystal-chemical hindering by > >>>>> the > >>> > >>>>> carbonate group sticking through one of the boundary planes of the > >>>>> unit > >>> > >>>>> cell. > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> Anybody who knows? > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> Cheers > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> Axel > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>> > >>>>> multipart/alternative > >>> > >>>>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >>> > >>>>> text/html > >>> > >>>>> --- > >>> > >>>>> -- > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> > >>>>> Subscription Services: > >>> > >>>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> > >>>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>> > >>>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> -- > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> > >>>> Subscription Services: > >>> > >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> > >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>> > >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>> multipart/alternative > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >>> text/html > >>> --- > >>> -- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> Subscription Services: > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Fri Sep 26 05:04:25 2008 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Fri Sep 26 04:58:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem Show this weekend Message-ID: <8C889991-6ADA-4D2E-B45D-F2C421C8DB38@verizon.net> If you're in the Baltimore-Washington, DC area this weekend you're invited to attend the 44th Annual Atlantic Coast Gem, Mineral & Jewelry Show Howard Co. Fairgrounds (I-70 at MD Rt 32 West Friendship, MD The show is sponsored by the Gem Cutters Guild of Baltimore and will feature good cutting rough, finished cabochons, jewelry, tools, minerals, fossils, demonstrations and mini-jewelry classes. Activities for kids too. Hours are Saturday (tomorrow, Sept. 27) from 10 am until 6 pm Sunday Sept. 28 - 10 am until 5 pm A number of list members will be there as well. CW From thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 05:31:53 2008 From: thecrystalcountess at yahoo.com (rohana contessa) Date: Fri Sep 26 05:31:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals In-Reply-To: <46A77204-8B67-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello All, ? I tried to attach a power point slide show of the giant crystal cave, but did not realize that it would be removed automatically.? If anyone would like me to email the power point slide show of the giant crystal cave to them personally, just drop me an email at thecrystalcountess@yahoo.com??? It is really worth seeing :) --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:05 PM I just got a note from my club president with a head's-up that "The National Geographic channel will be presenting the Program, The cave of giant crystals on Sunday evening October 12 at 9 pm". I'm passing it on to other rockhounds as requested, but I won't get to see it because I don't have cable. Hopefully one of my club members will tape it and share. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Sep 26 07:57:26 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Sep 26 07:57:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals In-Reply-To: <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <46A77204-8B67-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0AAFCD5BC655426EAA460F8D3562DE5B@okapi> Wow! Ask for a copy of the PowerPoint set. It's amazing. I love sticking my finger in front of the screen to hide the person in the shot. Looks just like a cute little crystal vug. Remove the finger, and ... Gee, those are BIG! GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > rohana contessa > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:32 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals > > Hello All, > ? > I tried to attach a power point slide show of the giant > crystal cave, but did not realize that it would be removed .... From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Sep 26 08:13:32 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 26 08:13:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAEE01925A4FFE-FF0-3160@WEBMAIL-MY33.sysops.aol.com> Ron, China has been producing some very nice synthetic quartz spheres, but not in that size. That size came from a book club, MABS, almost thirty years ago and is almost certainly glass. Guess my trivia does pay off. dave -----Original Message----- From: The Hammer To: post Rockhounds Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 9:11 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Sep 26 08:50:47 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 26 08:51:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite In-Reply-To: <7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP><8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com> <7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <8CAEE06C6862BBF-DE4-3DC8@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> "It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite." Not quite the same situation, Axel, because with the carbonates, relatively pure calcite is by far the most common, then with varying small amounts of manganese making the manganoan calcite ("manganocalcite") varieties.? Then it's also complicated by the existence of the intermediate compound analogous to dolomite, namely kutnohorite, CaMn(CO3)2 .? I believe that the special issue of Min. Record dedicated to the Sweet Home mine, July-August 1998, in the article by Karen Wenrich, included a diagram or a table showing compositions of Sweet Home rhodochrosite analyzed by microprobe, showing how the compositions are distributed as regards Ca vs. Mn content; and that the gemmy red rhodochrosites were purest in Mn, and the paler, cloudy-pink ones contained more Ca.? I don't have the issue at hand right now or I'd look this up and refresh myself as to exactly what it shows. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 3:24 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite Hi Pete, Thank you for sending the list. I guess the scapolite story is no different from most continuous series. If you look at the results: 0-20% meionite: 2 samples 20-40% meionite: 5 samples 40-60% meionite: 7 samples 60-80% meionite: 5 samples 80-100% meionite: 1 sample Now that is a classical Gaussian bell curve if ever I saw one. ;-))) It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: donderdag 25 september 2008 22:34 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > (OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) > > A little more data, for Axel & all, > > (1) I looked through my files and found a good article, by Teertstra & Sherriff, 1996, Am. > Min. v. 81, 169-180 (it should be online too, via the MSA website), which gives complete > chemical analyses, and other (XRD, etc.) data, for some 20 scapolite samples from around the > world.? For my own interest I typed out a list of the 20 localities and their composition in > terms of % of the meionite (calcium) endmember--if anyone would like to see this, please just > write to me & I'll email it back to you.? But here is a quick summary of what it shows: > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples (Pamirs, Russia, light violet gem crystal, and Gooderham, Ontairo, > opaque blue-gray) > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Ontario, Tanzania, Brazil) > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples (Quebec, Ontario, New York, Madagascar, Tanzania) > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Massachusetts, Russia (Slyudyanka) > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample (Monte Somma, Italy; 96.5% meionite) > > This article also mentioned that it used, as a standard for microprobe analysis, a "gem quality > meionite from Brazil, U.S. National Museum No. R6600-1", but it doesn't give the exact > composition of that specimen. > > (2) I see that there was also a pa per published, "On the composition of gem scapolites", by > Pete J. Dunn et al., 1978, Journal of Gemmology, v. 16, pp. 4-10.? I don't have a copy of this > paper now, but I'm requesting one via our library. > > (3) The mention above of the USNM meionite gave me the idea of checking the U.S. National > Museum of Natural History's (Smithsonian Institute) catalog, which is searchable online--it > is at, > http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/pages/nmnh/ms/Query.php > The result is interesting--I searched according to what mineral name specimens are > catalogued under, which of course is subject to the same caveats expressed here for Mindat > entries--yes, I agree, one doesn't know how accurate the "meionite vs. marialite" entries for > any of the specimens are, though one might hope that the Smithsonian catalog information is > more authoritative than most.? Here's what the catalog shows: > > "Scapolite" - 621 entries > > "Marialite" - 35 entries (including 8 from U.S., 6 Canada, 6 Tanzania, 3 Madagascar, 1 Brazil, > 1 Mozambique) > > "Meionite" - 67 entries (including 25 "Vesuvio", 8 Brazil, 7 U.S., 6 Canada, 2 Madagascar, 1 > Tanzania, 1 Kenya, 1 Burma) > > "Wernerite" - 12 entries > > "Mizzonite" - 18 entries > > Of course, most of the Smithsonian specimens I'm sure have not been analyzed,?but just > catalogued under the mineral name by which they were received; hence, the large number of > "just plain scapolite" entries. > > Pete -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From timeman123 at optonline.net Fri Sep 26 10:03:26 2008 From: timeman123 at optonline.net (ROBERT A SANTEE) Date: Fri Sep 26 10:03:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] fulgurites Message-ID: <000601c91ff9$cd29db80$d6ec5143@ownerfbau59hmu> I just wanted to thank everybody for their info on fulgurites thanks again bob. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 26 11:42:00 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 26 11:42:12 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite and kutnohorite In-Reply-To: <8CAEE06C6862BBF-DE4-3DC8@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP><8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com><7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAEE06C6862BBF-DE4-3DC8@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Absolutely, Pete. I meant something like one mineral going through a continuous series of intermediates to arrive at the other end of the series. I found the paper that Kreigh sent me very interesting in that respect. Calcite-rhodochrosite is much simpler in terms of composition and structure that of scapolite. Could antiphase domains mean something like the perthite/anorthite exsolution but more on a molecular very local scale (and without the exsolution ;-))). Something like a "zoning" of Ca and CO3 versus Na And Cl over the distance of a few unit cells? If I read the paper correctly, the scapolite series "jumps" (or at least: accelerates) towards the meionite end when the Al/(Al+Si) ratio exceeds 0.35. Would that explain why the "mean composition" of scapolite is just a little biased towards meionite? Another side question: is kutnohorite more than just a randomly chosen point on the calcite to rhodochrosite series? Is it structurally different? There is some argument about a Belgian actually producing specimens of kutnohorite instead of manganoan calcite. I believe that the argument lies in an infrared spectrum. Is that possible? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 17:51 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > > > "It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite." > > > Not quite the same situation, Axel, because with the carbonates, relatively pure calcite is by > far the most common, then with varying small amounts of manganese making the manganoan > calcite ("manganocalcite") varieties.? Then it's also complicated by the existence of the > intermediate compound analogous to dolomite, namely kutnohorite, CaMn(CO3)2 .? I believe > that the special issue of Min. Record dedicated to the Sweet Home mine, July-August 1998, > in the article by Karen Wenrich, included a diagram or a table showing compositions of Sweet > Home rhodochrosite analyzed by microprobe, showing how the compositions are distributed > as regards Ca vs. Mn content; and that the gemmy red rhodochrosites were purest in Mn, and > the paler, cloudy-pink ones contained more Ca.? I don't have the issue at hand right now or > I'd look this up and refresh myself as to exactly what it shows. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 3:24 am > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > Hi Pete, > > Thank you for sending the list. > I guess the scapolite story is no different from most continuous series. If > you look at the results: > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample > > Now that is a classical Gaussian bell curve if ever I saw one. ;-))) > > It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite. > > Cheers > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > > Verzonden: donderdag 25 september 2008 22:34 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > (OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) > > > > A little more data, for Axel & all, > > > > (1) I looked through my files and found a good article, by Teertstra & > Sherriff, 1996, Am. > > Min. v. 81, 169-180 (it should be online too, via the MSA website), which > gives complete > > chemical analyses, and other (XRD, etc.) data, for some 20 scapolite > samples from around the > > world.? For my own interest I typed out a list of the 20 localities and > their composition in > > terms of % of the meionite (calcium) endmember--if anyone would like to > see this, please just > > write to me & I'll email it back to you.? But here is a quick summary of > what it shows: > > > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples (Pamirs, Russia, light violet gem crystal, and > Gooderham, Ontairo, > > opaque blue-gray) > > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Ontario, Tanzania, Brazil) > > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples (Quebec, Ontario, New York, Madagascar, > Tanzania) > > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Massachusetts, Russia (Slyudyanka) > > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample (Monte Somma, Italy; 96.5% meionite) > > > > This article also mentioned that it used, as a standard for microprobe > analysis, a "gem quality > > meionite from Brazil, U.S. National Museum No. R6600-1", but it doesn't > give the exact > > composition of that specimen. > > > > (2) I see that there was also a pa > per published, "On the composition of > gem scapolites", by > > Pete J. Dunn et al., 1978, Journal of Gemmology, v. 16, pp. 4-10.? I don't > have a copy of this > > paper now, but I'm requesting one via our library. > > > > (3) The mention above of the USNM meionite gave me the idea of checking > the U.S. National > > Museum of Natural History's (Smithsonian Institute) catalog, which is > searchable online--it > > is at, > > http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/pages/nmnh/ms/Query.php > > The result is interesting--I searched according to what mineral name > specimens are > > catalogued under, which of course is subject to the same caveats expressed > here for Mindat > > entries--yes, I agree, one doesn't know how accurate the "meionite vs. > marialite" entries for > > any of the specimens are, though one might hope that the Smithsonian > catalog information is > > more authoritative than most.? Here's what the catalog shows: > > > > "Scapolite" - 621 entries > > > > "Marialite" - 35 entries (including 8 from U.S., 6 Canada, 6 Tanzania, 3 > Madagascar, 1 Brazil, > > 1 Mozambique) > > > > "Meionite" - 67 entries (including 25 "Vesuvio", 8 Brazil, 7 U.S., 6 > Canada, 2 Madagascar, 1 > > Tanzania, 1 Kenya, 1 Burma) > > > > "Wernerite" - 12 entries > > > > "Mizzonite" - 18 entries > > > > Of course, most of the Smithsonian specimens I'm sure have not been > analyzed,?but just > > catalogued under the mineral name by which they were received; hence, the > large number of > > "just plain scapolite" entries. > > > > Pete > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Sep 26 11:46:13 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Sep 26 11:46:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with methane bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a small quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > I'll try too... > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or cloudy > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a magnifying > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such imperfections > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably glass. If > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't see ANY > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one couldn't be > absolutely certain. > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at least > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles perhaps. > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". One > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter with an > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the specific > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from high school & > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams per cubic > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two are so > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish them, I'm > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 g/cc, but > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is glass) > are even higher. Oh well. > > cheers, > Pete > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Sep 26 11:50:07 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 26 11:50:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite and kutnohorite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP><8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com><7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE06C6862BBF-DE4-3DC8@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAEE1FD3E8E1DA-DE4-4673@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> Axel, Let me just write & try to answer part of your questions right now--yes, kutnohorite is really structurally different; the Ca and Mn ions are ordered in the structure, just as they are in dolomite.? That is what makes kutnohorite and dolomite real mineral species; otherwise, if not ordered (and this changes the symmetry of the crystal lattice), they would just be intermediate compositions, and would not be "counted" as a distinct mineral species; just as the intermediate plagioclase feldspars, e.g., labradorite, are not "counted" as distinct mineral species. And yes, I think the "antiphase domains" in scapolite are indeed analogous to the exsolution domains in the feldspars. more another time... Pete -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:42 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite and kutnohorite Absolutely, Pete. I meant something like one mineral going through a continuous series of intermediates to arrive at the other end of the series. I found the paper that Kreigh sent me very interesting in that respect. Calcite-rhodochrosite is much simpler in terms of composition and structure that of scapolite. Could antiphase domains mean something like the perthite/anorthite exsolution but more on a molecular very local scale (and without the exsolution ;-))). Something like a "zoning" of Ca and CO3 versus Na And Cl over the distance of a few unit cells? If I read the paper correctly, the scapolite series "jumps" (or at least: accelerates) towards the meionite end when the Al/(Al+Si) ratio exceeds 0.35. Would that explain why the "mean composition" of scapolite is just a little biased towards meionite? Another side question: is kutnohorite more than just a randomly chosen point on the calcite to rhodochrosite series? Is it structurally different? There is some argument about a Belgian actually producing specimens of kutnohorite instead of manganoan calcite. I believe that the argument lies in an infrared spectrum. Is that possible? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 17:51 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > > > "It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite." > > > Not quite the same situation, Axel, because with the carbonates, relatively pure calcite is by > far the most common, then with varying small amounts of manganese making the manganoan > calcite ("manganocalcite") varieties.? Then it's also complicated by the existence of the > intermediate compound analogous to dolomite, namely kutnohorite, CaMn(CO3)2 .? I believe > that the special issue of Min. Record dedicated to the Sweet Home mine, July-August 1998, > in the article by Karen Wenrich, included a diagram or a table showing compositions of Sweet > Home rhodochrosite analyzed by microprobe, showing how the compositions are distributed > as regards Ca vs. Mn content; and that the gemmy red rhodochrosites were purest in Mn, and > the paler, cloudy-pink ones contained more Ca.? I don't have the issue at hand right now or > I'd look this up and refresh myself as to exactly what it shows. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 3:24 am > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > Hi Pete, > > Thank you for sending the list. > I guess the scapolite story is no different from most continuous series. If > you look at the results: > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample > > Now that is a classical Gaussian bell curve if ever I saw one. ;-))) > > It's probably the same with series like calcite - rhodochrosite. > > Cheers > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > > Verzonden: donderdag 25 september 2008 22:34 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Scapolite > > > > (OK, anybody tired of hearing about scapolite, just delete this!) > > > > A little more data, for Axel & all, > > > > (1) I looked through my files and found a good article, by Teertstra & > Sherriff, 1996, Am. > > Min. v. 81, 169-180 (it should be online too, via the MSA website), which > gives complete > > chemical analyses, and other (XRD, etc.) data, for some 20 scapolite > samples from around the > > world.? For my own interest I typed out a list of the 20 localities and > their composition in > > terms of % of the meionite (calcium) endmember--if anyone would like to > see this, please just > > write to me & I'll email it back to you.? But here is a quick summary of > what it shows: > > > > 0-20% meionite: 2 samples (Pamirs, Russia, light violet gem crystal, and > Gooderham, Ontairo, > > opaque blue-gray) > > 20-40% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Ontario, Tanzania, Brazil) > > 40-60% meionite: 7 samples (Quebec, Ontario, New York, Madagascar, > Tanzania) > > 60-80% meionite: 5 samples (Quebec, Massachusetts, Russia (Slyudyanka) > > 80-100% meionite: 1 sample (Monte Somma, Italy; 96.5% meionite) > > > > This article also mentioned that it used, as a standard for microprobe > analysis, a "gem quality > > meionite from Brazil, U.S. National Museum No. R6600-1", but it doesn't > give the exact > > composition of that specimen. > > > > (2) I see that there was also a pa > per published, "On the composition of > gem scapolites", by > > Pete J. Dunn et al., 1978, Journal of Gemmology, v. 16, pp. 4-10.? I don't > have a copy of this > > paper now, but I'm requesting one via our library. > > > > (3) The mention above of the USNM meionite gave me the idea of checking > the U.S. National > > Museum of Natural History's (Smithsonian Institute) catalog, which is > searchable online--it > > is at, > > http://nhb-acsmith1.si.edu/emuwebmsweb/pages/nmnh/ms/Query.php > > The result is interesting--I searched according to what mineral name > specimens are > > catalogued under, which of course is subject to the same caveats expressed > here for Mindat > > entries--yes, I agree, one doesn't know how accurate the "meionite vs. > marialite" entries for > > any of the specimens are, though one might hope that the Smithsonian > catalog information is > > more authoritative than most.? Here's what the catalog shows: > > > > "Scapolite" - 621 entries > > > > "Marialite" - 35 entries (including 8 from U.S., 6 Canada, 6 Tanzania, 3 > Madagascar, 1 Brazil, > > 1 Mozambique) > > > > "Meionite" - 67 entries (including 25 "Vesuvio", 8 Brazil, 7 U.S., 6 > Canada, 2 Madagascar, 1 > > Tanzania, 1 Kenya, 1 Burma) > > > > "Wernerite" - 1 2 entries > > > > "Mizzonite" - 18 entries > > > > Of course, most of the Smithsonian specimens I'm sure have not been > analyzed,?but just > > catalogued under the mineral name by which they were received; hence, the > large number of > > "just plain scapolite" entries. > > > > Pete > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Sep 26 13:47:27 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Sep 26 13:48:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> Axel, Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. dave -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with methane bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a small quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > I'll try too... > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or cloudy > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a magnifying > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such imperfections > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably glass. If > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't see ANY > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one couldn't be > absolutely certain. > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at least > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles perhaps. > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". One > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter with an > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the specific > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from high school & > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams per cubic > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two are so > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish them, I'm > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 g/cc, but > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is glass) > are even higher. Oh well. > > cheers, > Pete > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gregaweis at msn.com Fri Sep 26 14:41:36 2008 From: gregaweis at msn.com (GREGORY WEISBROD) Date: Fri Sep 26 14:41:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Take a couple of old polaroid eyeglasses (look at a light source through two lenses, one in front of the other) if rotating one lens darkens the light almost completely, they are polaroid. Now grab an extra pair of hands if necessary, and interpose your sphere between the lenses so: Light=====Lens===Sphere====Lens=====Eye If you are wearing the polaroid glasses that are next to your eye, tilting you head right or left will brighten or dim the whole quartz crystal, but a glass object will look the same except for localized stress areas. If you have a quartz crystal orienting it so light passes down the c axis of three fold symmetry will not change its light transmission if it is turned on this axis. > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:11:55 -0700> From: hammerron@yahoo.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question> > I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that> it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is> roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions> for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass?> > Ron> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gregaweis at msn.com Fri Sep 26 14:55:07 2008 From: gregaweis at msn.com (GREGORY WEISBROD) Date: Fri Sep 26 14:55:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crop Up In-Reply-To: References: <561616.7884.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I found this etymology interesting, wanted to share, but couldn't send a proper link. This site does not have an entry for "come to grass" though. Crop up Meaning To emerge or occur incidentally or unexpectedly. Origin The word crop has several meanings. As a noun it is a swelling on the body, or any rounded or swollen item, for example a bird's gullet, the seed head of a ripe plant or the the rear end of a horse. As a verb it means 'to cut the top or sides off' or 'to gather in' (as in cereal crops). A less well-known meaning is 'to protrude from the earth's surface'. The context of early printed examples of the term 'crop up' doesn't help us decipher whether that 'crop' is an allusion to the growth of crops or to the 'swollen' meaning. That is because the things that were first said to have 'cropped up' were rounded items which protruded from the ground, i.e. rocks. The term 'crop up' has been used since at least the 17th century by miners, geologists etc. to refer to rocks that break the earth's surface - literally, outcrops. The Stuart nobleman Dud Dudley, in Metallum Martis, 1665, a record of mining in the English Black Country region, referred to the 'cropping up' of coal: "The coles ascending, basseting, or as the colliers term it, cropping up even unto the superfices [surface] of the earth." The later use of the term 'crop up' in its figurative 'emerge unexpectedly' meaning seems quite a natural progression. The Proceedings of the Royal Asiatic Society, 1832, include a citation that could easily be read as having a figurative rather than literal meaning, if it weren't for the geological context. "Grey-wacke, and slaty limestone, conformably stratified, crop up above the ocean in the Booming isles to the north." A more obvious figurative version appeared a few years later, in Benjamin Disraeli's Coningsby, or the new generation 1844: "We shall have new men cropping up every session." Coincidentally, crops still feature in the language of geologists and archeologists, in the form of crop marks. These are the lines which are created by variations in the growth of plants caused by buried rocks or archeological remains. Although difficult to see from the ground, crop marks materialize quite clearly when viewed from the air. They could be said, both literally and figuratively, to crop up in the landscape. See also: come a cropper. The Phrase A Week newsletter goes out to 74,000 subscribers (56,000 by e-mail, 18,000 by RSS feed). Please help support this newsletter. Add a phrase a week to your own web site or blog. (www.phrases.org.uk/a-phrase-a-week/add.html) Phrase Thesaurus - Writer's Aid (www.phrasefinder.co.uk) Phrases and sayings - meanings and origins. (www.phrases.org.uk/meanings) Unsubscribe from this mailing list. (www.phrases.org.uk/a-phrase-a-week/unsubscribe.html) Copyright ? Gary Martin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Sep 26 17:19:13 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Sep 26 17:18:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scapolite and kutnohorite In-Reply-To: References: <9A92D688-8841-11DD-BD8B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><48D80526.8080603@verizon.net><8CAEC7F703B46D4-15F0-12A7@webmail-nc04.sysops.aol.com><48DA82C2.8090103@verizon.net><9643135C6538442CB69BEC094AD1AB00@AXELDESKTOP><8CAED653613CF50-BB8-1BC2@webmail-nd02.sysops.aol.com><7390119A222145429673E589B3E0D9F8@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAEE06C6862BBF-DE4-3DC8@webmail-nh08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48DD7C01.5080301@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Could antiphase domains mean something like the perthite/anorthite > exsolution but more on a molecular very local scale (and without the > exsolution ;-))). Something like a "zoning" of Ca and CO3 versus Na And Cl > over the distance of a few unit cells? That is how exsolution starts. It is just a matter of time and rate of cooling. > If I read the paper correctly, the scapolite series "jumps" (or at least: > accelerates) towards the meionite end when the Al/(Al+Si) ratio exceeds > 0.35. Axel, look up "Lowenstein alumimum-aluminum avoidance rule." There are reasons why a lot of things change when you being to substitute Al for Si in tetrahedra... sorry, no time to go into that now, maybe in a month or so. In brief, Si fits just about perfectly into a tetrahedron bounded by O; Al, less well. Also, Si and Al have different size-to-charge ratios and that affects the atoms around them and the structures as well. The shapes of atomic lattices are usually somewhat distorted, and I think that is one of the difficult jobs of a crystallographer: taking raw data and devising an ideal structure and symmetry from that. Also, remember that charge is not the only factor in forming a series. The ionic size and radius-to-charge ratio are also important... search for "crystal field stabilzation energy" and "crystal field strength." When you consider all the minerals out there, we have very few true continuous solid solution series... some combinations, though stoichiometrically possbile, are never found in nature. More later, Don From pttrefrn at triwest.net Fri Sep 26 20:01:19 2008 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron) Date: Fri Sep 26 20:01:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals References: <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2516B01D2C6B40F89CC0B2632778F395@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Yes, please send it to us. Thanks, Pat and Ron Potter-Efron ----- Original Message ----- From: "rohana contessa" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals > Hello All, > > I tried to attach a power point slide show of the giant crystal cave, but > did not realize that it would be removed automatically. If anyone would > like me to email the power point slide show of the giant crystal cave to > them personally, just drop me an email at thecrystalcountess@yahoo.com It > is really worth seeing :) > > --- On Thu, 9/25/08, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 6:05 PM > > I just got a note from my club president with a head's-up that "The > National Geographic channel will be presenting the Program, The cave of > giant crystals on Sunday evening October 12 at 9 pm". > > I'm passing it on to other rockhounds as requested, but I won't get to > see it because I don't have cable. Hopefully one of my club members > will tape it and share. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 27 05:03:56 2008 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Sat Sep 27 05:04:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes Message-ID: <710534.63963.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Larry and List, ? What the Micromounters of New England wanted to do was to obtain a high res digital camera to interface with a microscope and a laptop (and a projector attached to the dicplay out of the laptop) so that at our meetings, anybody could bring a specimen to the table, put it down and after a minute's worth of adjustments, show a high resolution, well lit micro crystal to all in the room for further identification and discussion. ? We also hoped to photograph all specimens for a given locality and offer them up on our website. ? While I take lots of pictures, I do not consider myself a photographer. Never took a class, don't know what an f-stop is, but I have read a fair amount on the web, so now you know I probably have some definite opinions based on the fairy tales of others. 8-) ? Originally, I picked up an Intel USB microscope.? It was about $70. It is all plastic. I was very excited. Then I plugged it in. ? I think that if you are 12 years old and male and want to make short videos of bugs, the solution is fine. I am not sure what the resolution was but it's probably lucky to be 640x480. If you zoom in, it will be less. When you take the picture you get a BMP that is not even close to photo quality. The depth of field especially with minerals means that the scope will focus on one point only, and anything that is a few mm's different in the horizontal plane in respect to the lens will be out of focus. For purposes of photographing minerals it is useless. ? Next came a try and a demo with a nicer unit by a company named Ken-A-Vision. This company makes many different educational cameras/scopes and most interface via USB to a PC or with RCA jacks to a projector. ? The particular model (the FlexCam) I chose to demo was very interesting. A small 1 megapixel camera located at the top of a two foot long flexibale shaft is meant to fit over one of the eyepieces of your own microscope. Two standard adapters were included. The system had a good idea, but the connection to the scope was bad and had to constantly be realigned. If you needed to refocus the scope, then you needed to reconnect the FlexCam. As with the Intel scope, the resolution even at 1mb was not high enough for an acceeptable picture, and lighting and contrast problems made the learning process even more frustrating. Oh yeah, and the software was horrible to install. It demanded specific outdated versions of dlls. ? While this absolutely is a valuable educational tool for kids, it just didn't come close to solving our needs for the Micromounters of New England. ? Our next (and hopefully final) try will be through eBay. The seller is precision*world and we are looking at a 5 megapixel USB 2.0 barrel camera that we can fit into the microscope. Brand name is AmScope model number is MD900. It's about $350. Here is their description (complete with spelling errors): ? You are bidding on a brand new 5.0 Mega pixel, high resolution, color digital imaging system that is especially designed for microscopes. Different from other sellers' models, this new microscope imaging system comes with a standalone design that allows independent operation for high-definition digital imaging at a hardware resolution of 2592 X 1944 effective pixels without using any image capture card, optimizes real-time acquisition and fine-tunes exposure to achieve the best balance between resolution and contrast. This digital system accurately displays the images of the observed specimen or samples on computer screen. Working perfectly with all kinds of optical microscopes, including biological , metallurgical and stereomicroscope, it will be able to turn any microscope into a modern digital one that will enable you to take high resolution pictures and further analyze your images. This new imaging system is comprised of a digital camera with a color 5.04MP CMOS sensor interfacing with a computer via high-speed USB2.0, easy-to-use Windows 2000/XP/Vista compatible AmScope software, step-by-step user's instructions, and 23mm, 30mm, 30.5mm, and C-mount adapters. Its built-in reduction lens gives your PC screen the same field of view as the one you see through the eyepiece. Capable of streaming live video, this 5.0 MP imaging system offers full-screen displays and the best resolution your computer monitor can offer. In addition, the multi-functional AmScope software allows you to preview live images, record videos, capture still pictures, edit captures, or save them in BMP, TIFF, JPG, PICT, PTL and other formats very easily, as well as conduct length, angle, area, and other measurements. This product is very simple to use, one end plugs into your PC USB port the other fits on the ocular tube or standard trinocular tube. It is ideal for medical, educational, and engineering uses. It comes with a one-year full-coverage warranty and a life-time of free software upgrades. We have no doubt you will be impressed by the superb resolution and wide range of applications that this newest USB model offers you. Convert your existing microscope to a digital one with 5.0 MegaPixel resolution! High quality performance and unbeatable lowest prices guaranteed! ? (end their sales pitch) ? No matter how good the microscope and camera there will still be the challenge of getting the crystals and matrix in focus at the same time. There is stacking software, the most popular is called CombineZ. There is a link under the Micromounters of New England website to somebody else's site wher it can be downloaded for free. What you essentially do is take say a dozen pictures from a dozen different focal points and use the software to combine the focused points of each image into one really nice image. ? On Mindat there are a slew of articles and correspondence regarding mineral photography. Many deal with micro photography, others detail some super setups that even normal people without lots of money could easily duplicate. ? Here is an excellent article by Peter Rhodes on a low budget mineral photography setup: http://www.mindat.org/article.php/339/Beginners+%22Budget%22+Mineral+Photography+Setup ? Finally, there is the challenge of lighting. Whether for micros or macros, you can't take pix in the dark. Many people seem to feel that the new bulbs that use the same wavelengths as sunlight are best, others say you can fix it in Photoshop. I think the less software finagling the better. Multiple light sources with no reflections, glare and especially specimen damaging heat is quite a challenge unto itself. ? I hope this helps! ? Thanks to all on the list who make it such a great place. Joe ? ? Joe Mulvey??? Nashua, NH?????????? USA http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org http://www.bostonmineralclub.org http://www.fractalandphoto.com http://www.youtube.com/joemulvey ? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 27 07:10:35 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 27 07:15:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals References: <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <2516B01D2C6B40F89CC0B2632778F395@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Message-ID: Pat: Just in case you do not get this video, attached is a copy. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals > Yes, please send it to us. Thanks, Pat and Ron Potter-Efron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rohana contessa" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 27 07:33:38 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 27 07:36:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] The cave of giant crystals References: <248989.87094.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com><2516B01D2C6B40F89CC0B2632778F395@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Message-ID: <887F101345634C5FBBBCEE451821BB02@LarryRush> Please excuse the error! I hit "Reply" by mistake!! Larry From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 07:44:03 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Sep 27 07:44:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes In-Reply-To: <710534.63963.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <710534.63963.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Joe, Thanks for taking the time to provide us with the results of your research into micro-photography and viewing options. Lets hope the AmScope unit will be the answer for the MMNE. I hope to make some meetings later this fall and see the results first hand. best regards, Nate Martin P.S. - Although Joe was to modest to mention it. He is the current president of the Micromounters of New England (MMNE) and is the webmaster for both the MMNE and the Boston Mineral Club. On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Joe Mulvey wrote: > > Hi Larry and List, > > What the Micromounters of New England wanted to do was to obtain a high res > digital camera to interface with a microscope and a laptop (and a projector > attached to the dicplay out of the laptop) so that at our meetings, anybody > could bring a specimen to the table, put it down and after a minute's worth > of adjustments, show a high resolution, well lit micro crystal to all in the > room for further identification and discussion. > > We also hoped to photograph all specimens for a given locality and offer > them up on our website. > > While I take lots of pictures, I do not consider myself a photographer. > Never took a class, don't know what an f-stop is, but I have read a fair > amount on the web, so now you know I probably have some definite opinions > based on the fairy tales of others. 8-) > > Originally, I picked up an Intel USB microscope. It was about $70. It is > all plastic. I was very excited. Then I plugged it in. > > I think that if you are 12 years old and male and want to make short videos > of bugs, the solution is fine. I am not sure what the resolution was but > it's probably lucky to be 640x480. If you zoom in, it will be less. When you > take the picture you get a BMP that is not even close to photo quality. The > depth of field especially with minerals means that the scope will focus on > one point only, and anything that is a few mm's different in the horizontal > plane in respect to the lens will be out of focus. For purposes of > photographing minerals it is useless. > > Next came a try and a demo with a nicer unit by a company named > Ken-A-Vision. This company makes many > different educational cameras/scopes and most interface via USB to a PC or > with RCA jacks to a projector. > > The particular model (the FlexCam) I chose to demo was very interesting. A > small 1 megapixel camera located at the top of a two foot long flexibale > shaft is meant to fit over one of the eyepieces of your own microscope. Two > standard adapters were included. The system had a good idea, but the > connection to the scope was bad and had to constantly be realigned. If you > needed to refocus the scope, then you needed to reconnect the FlexCam. As > with the Intel scope, the resolution even at 1mb was not high enough for an > acceeptable picture, and lighting and contrast problems made the learning > process even more frustrating. Oh yeah, and the software was horrible to > install. It demanded specific outdated versions of dlls. > > While this absolutely is a valuable educational tool for kids, it just > didn't come close to solving our needs for the Micromounters of New England. > > Our next (and hopefully final) try will be through eBay. The seller is > precision*world and we are looking at a 5 megapixel USB 2.0 barrel camera > that we can fit into the microscope. Brand name is AmScope model number is > MD900. It's about $350. Here is their description (complete with spelling > errors): > > You are bidding on a brand new 5.0 Mega pixel, high resolution, color > digital imaging system that is especially designed for microscopes. > Different from other sellers' models, this new microscope imaging system > comes with a standalone design that allows independent operation for > high-definition digital imaging at a hardware resolution of 2592 X 1944 > effective pixels without using any image capture card, optimizes real-time > acquisition and fine-tunes exposure to achieve the best balance between > resolution and contrast. This digital system accurately displays the images > of the observed specimen or samples on computer screen. Working perfectly > with all kinds of optical microscopes, including biological , metallurgical > and stereomicroscope, it will be able to turn any microscope into a modern > digital one that will enable you to take high resolution pictures and > further analyze your images. This new imaging system is comprised of a > digital camera with a color > 5.04MP CMOS sensor interfacing with a computer via high-speed USB2.0, > easy-to-use Windows 2000/XP/Vista compatible AmScope software, step-by-step > user's instructions, and 23mm, 30mm, 30.5mm, and C-mount adapters. Its > built-in reduction lens gives your PC screen the same field of view as the > one you see through the eyepiece. Capable of streaming live video, this 5.0 > MP imaging system offers full-screen displays and the best resolution your > computer monitor can offer. In addition, the multi-functional AmScope > software allows you to preview live images, record videos, capture still > pictures, edit captures, or save them in BMP, TIFF, JPG, PICT, PTL and other > formats very easily, as well as conduct length, angle, area, and other > measurements. This product is very simple to use, one end plugs into your PC > USB port the other fits on the ocular tube or standard trinocular tube. It > is ideal for medical, educational, and engineering uses. It comes with a > one-year > full-coverage warranty and a life-time of free software upgrades. We have > no doubt you will be impressed by the superb resolution and wide range of > applications that this newest USB model offers you. Convert your existing > microscope to a digital one with 5.0 MegaPixel resolution! High quality > performance and unbeatable lowest prices guaranteed! > > (end their sales pitch) > > No matter how good the microscope and camera there will still be the > challenge of getting the crystals and matrix in focus at the same time. > There is stacking software, the most popular is called CombineZ. There is a > link under the Micromounters of New England website to somebody else's site > wher it can be downloaded for free. What you essentially do is take say a > dozen pictures from a dozen different focal points and use the software to > combine the focused points of each image into one really nice image. > > On Mindat there are a slew of articles and correspondence regarding mineral > photography. Many deal with micro > photography, others detail some super setups that even normal people without > lots of money could easily duplicate. > > Here is an excellent article by Peter Rhodes on a low budget mineral > photography setup: > > http://www.mindat.org/article.php/339/Beginners+%22Budget%22+Mineral+Photography+Setup > > Finally, there is the challenge of lighting. Whether for micros or macros, > you can't take pix in the dark. Many people seem to feel that the new bulbs > that use the same wavelengths as sunlight are best, others say you can fix > it in Photoshop. I think the less software finagling the better. Multiple > light sources with no reflections, glare and especially specimen damaging > heat is quite a challenge unto itself. > > I hope this helps! > > Thanks to all on the list who make it such a great place. > Joe > > > Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH USA > http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 > > > http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org > http://www.bostonmineralclub.org > http://www.fractalandphoto.com > http://www.youtube.com/joemulvey > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 27 07:54:29 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 27 07:57:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes References: <710534.63963.qm@web51303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Many thanks, Joe, for such an informative and detailed study! > Thanks to all on the list who make it such a great place. > Joe This certainly includes YOU! Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Mulvey" To: Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sat Sep 27 08:12:44 2008 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sat Sep 27 08:12:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <360648.65716.qm@web53204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, Here are some photos of chondrules within a chondritic meteorite: chondrule photos link: http://www.angelfire.com/d20/darren_garrison/ and the microscope link: http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/usb-digital-microscope-with-13-m-pixel-resolution-video-clips/ ? Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sat, 9/27/08, Nathan Martin wrote: > From: Nathan Martin > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USB Microscopes > To: bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 11:44 PM > Joe, > Thanks for taking the time to provide us with the results > of your research > into micro-photography and viewing options. Lets hope the > AmScope unit will > be the answer for the MMNE. I hope to make some meetings > later this fall > and see the results first hand. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > > P.S. - Although Joe was to modest to mention it. He is the > current > president of the Micromounters of New England (MMNE) and is > the webmaster > for both the MMNE and the Boston Mineral Club. > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Joe Mulvey > wrote: > > > > > Hi Larry and List, > > > > What the Micromounters of New England wanted to do was > to obtain a high res > > digital camera to interface with a microscope and a > laptop (and a projector > > attached to the dicplay out of the laptop) so that at > our meetings, anybody > > could bring a specimen to the table, put it down and > after a minute's worth > > of adjustments, show a high resolution, well lit micro > crystal to all in the > > room for further identification and discussion. > > > > We also hoped to photograph all specimens for a given > locality and offer > > them up on our website. > > > > While I take lots of pictures, I do not consider > myself a photographer. > > Never took a class, don't know what an f-stop is, > but I have read a fair > > amount on the web, so now you know I probably have > some definite opinions > > based on the fairy tales of others. 8-) > > > > Originally, I picked up an Intel USB microscope. It > was about $70. It is > > all plastic. I was very excited. Then I plugged it in. > > > > I think that if you are 12 years old and male and want > to make short videos > > of bugs, the solution is fine. I am not sure what the > resolution was but > > it's probably lucky to be 640x480. If you zoom in, > it will be less. When you > > take the picture you get a BMP that is not even close > to photo quality. The > > depth of field especially with minerals means that the > scope will focus on > > one point only, and anything that is a few mm's > different in the horizontal > > plane in respect to the lens will be out of focus. For > purposes of > > photographing minerals it is useless. > > > > Next came a try and a demo with a nicer unit by a > company named > > Ken-A-Vision. > This company makes many > > different educational cameras/scopes and most > interface via USB to a PC or > > with RCA jacks to a projector. > > > > The particular model (the FlexCam) I chose to demo was > very interesting. A > > small 1 megapixel camera located at the top of a two > foot long flexibale > > shaft is meant to fit over one of the eyepieces of > your own microscope. Two > > standard adapters were included. The system had a good > idea, but the > > connection to the scope was bad and had to constantly > be realigned. If you > > needed to refocus the scope, then you needed to > reconnect the FlexCam. As > > with the Intel scope, the resolution even at 1mb was > not high enough for an > > acceeptable picture, and lighting and contrast > problems made the learning > > process even more frustrating. Oh yeah, and the > software was horrible to > > install. It demanded specific outdated versions of > dlls. > > > > While this absolutely is a valuable educational tool > for kids, it just > > didn't come close to solving our needs for the > Micromounters of New England. > > > > Our next (and hopefully final) try will be through > eBay. The seller is > > precision*world and we are looking at a 5 megapixel > USB 2.0 barrel camera > > that we can fit into the microscope. Brand name is > AmScope model number is > > MD900. It's about $350. Here is their description > (complete with spelling > > errors): > > > > You are bidding on a brand new 5.0 Mega pixel, high > resolution, color > > digital imaging system that is especially designed for > microscopes. > > Different from other sellers' models, this new > microscope imaging system > > comes with a standalone design that allows independent > operation for > > high-definition digital imaging at a hardware > resolution of 2592 X 1944 > > effective pixels without using any image capture card, > optimizes real-time > > acquisition and fine-tunes exposure to achieve the > best balance between > > resolution and contrast. This digital system > accurately displays the images > > of the observed specimen or samples on computer > screen. Working perfectly > > with all kinds of optical microscopes, including > biological , metallurgical > > and stereomicroscope, it will be able to turn any > microscope into a modern > > digital one that will enable you to take high > resolution pictures and > > further analyze your images. This new imaging system > is comprised of a > > digital camera with a color > > 5.04MP CMOS sensor interfacing with a computer via > high-speed USB2.0, > > easy-to-use Windows 2000/XP/Vista compatible AmScope > software, step-by-step > > user's instructions, and 23mm, 30mm, 30.5mm, and > C-mount adapters. Its > > built-in reduction lens gives your PC screen the same > field of view as the > > one you see through the eyepiece. Capable of streaming > live video, this 5.0 > > MP imaging system offers full-screen displays and the > best resolution your > > computer monitor can offer. In addition, the > multi-functional AmScope > > software allows you to preview live images, record > videos, capture still > > pictures, edit captures, or save them in BMP, TIFF, > JPG, PICT, PTL and other > > formats very easily, as well as conduct length, angle, > area, and other > > measurements. This product is very simple to use, one > end plugs into your PC > > USB port the other fits on the ocular tube or standard > trinocular tube. It > > is ideal for medical, educational, and engineering > uses. It comes with a > > one-year > > full-coverage warranty and a life-time of free > software upgrades. We have > > no doubt you will be impressed by the superb > resolution and wide range of > > applications that this newest USB model offers you. > Convert your existing > > microscope to a digital one with 5.0 MegaPixel > resolution! High quality > > performance and unbeatable lowest prices guaranteed! > > > > (end their sales pitch) > > > > No matter how good the microscope and camera there > will still be the > > challenge of getting the crystals and matrix in focus > at the same time. > > There is stacking software, the most popular is called > CombineZ. There is a > > link under the Micromounters of New England website to > somebody else's site > > wher it can be downloaded for free. What you > essentially do is take say a > > dozen pictures from a dozen different focal points and > use the software to > > combine the focused points of each image into one > really nice image. > > > > On Mindat there are a slew of articles and > correspondence regarding mineral > > photography. > Many deal > with micro > > photography, others detail some super setups that even > normal people without > > lots of money could easily duplicate. > > > > Here is an excellent article by Peter Rhodes on a low > budget mineral > > photography setup: > > > > > http://www.mindat.org/article.php/339/Beginners+%22Budget%22+Mineral+Photography+Setup > > > > Finally, there is the challenge of lighting. Whether > for micros or macros, > > you can't take pix in the dark. Many people seem > to feel that the new bulbs > > that use the same wavelengths as sunlight are best, > others say you can fix > > it in Photoshop. I think the less software finagling > the better. Multiple > > light sources with no reflections, glare and > especially specimen damaging > > heat is quite a challenge unto itself. > > > > I hope this helps! > > > > Thanks to all on the list who make it such a great > place. > > Joe > > > > > > Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH USA > > http://home.comcast.net/~mgag1 > > > > > > > http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org > > http://www.bostonmineralclub.org > > http://www.fractalandphoto.com > > http://www.youtube.com/joemulvey > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 27 09:45:59 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 27 09:46:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: I have some Halite from the waste facility near Carlsbad, NM, that has enhydros that are square. I'm not really puzzled by the reverse crystal shape as it is a least energy configuration. What I wonder about is if gravity provides enough energy to make them slowly migrate in the 'up' or 'down' direction. Will they slowly migrate themselves to the surface of the specimen? Kreigh On Friday, Sep 26, 2008, at 14:46 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > methane > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > small > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Pmodreski@aol.com >> Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 >> Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question >> >> I'll try too... >> >> Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > cloudy >> patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > magnifying >> lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is >> absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. >> >> Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such >> imperfections >> closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > glass. If >> they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't >> see > ANY >> such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one > couldn't be >> absolutely certain. >> >> Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at >> least >> slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > perhaps. >> >> Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". >> One >> easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter >> with > an >> accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the >> specific >> gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from >> high > school & >> college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams >> per > cubic >> centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. >> >> P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two >> are so >> close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish >> them, > I'm >> afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 >> g/cc, > but >> can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is > glass) >> are even higher. Oh well. >> >> cheers, >> Pete >> >> >> >> **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial >> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, >> tips > and >> calculators. >> (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Sep 27 11:27:09 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Sep 27 11:27:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: Dave, Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz inclusion are a few millimetres. Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who wants it. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens betdav97@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > Axel, > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > methane > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > small > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > I'll try too... > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > cloudy > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > magnifying > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > imperfections > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > glass. If > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > see > ANY > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one > couldn't be > > absolutely certain. > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > least > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > perhaps. > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > One > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > with > an > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > specific > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from > high > school & > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > per > cubic > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > are so > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > them, > I'm > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > g/cc, > but > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is > glass) > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > cheers, > > Pete > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, > tips > and > > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 27 12:14:02 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 27 12:14:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Team finds Earth's 'oldest rocks' Message-ID: <722F1CC8-8CC8-11DD-BD6B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Earth's most ancient rocks, with an age of 4.28 billion years, have been found on the shore of Hudson Bay, Canada. Writing in Science journal, a team reports finding that a sample of Nuvvuagittuq greenstone is 250 million years older than any rocks known. It may even hold evidence of activity by ancient life forms. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7639024.stm From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sat Sep 27 13:39:05 2008 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:39:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <820B454C-26A1-4328-83A3-16DFDB499971@heidelberg.edu> Consider that Na and Cl ions are continuously passing back and forth from the solution to the walls of the enhydro. If the enhydro is going to migrate, it would seem to have to be by gravity tugging on the ions flying around in there. My guess is that there will be no migration, but certainly if there is I wouldn't stay up waiting for the enhydro to reach the surface! Pete Richards On Sep 27, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I have some Halite from the waste facility near Carlsbad, NM, that > has enhydros that are square. I'm not really puzzled by the reverse > crystal shape as it is a least energy configuration. What I wonder > about is if gravity provides enough energy to make them slowly > migrate in the 'up' or 'down' direction. Will they slowly migrate > themselves to the surface of the specimen? > > Kreigh > > > > On Friday, Sep 26, 2008, at 14:46 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > >> I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. >> The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with >> methane >> bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. >> The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As >> if a small >> quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. >> >> Axel >> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >>> Namens Pmodreski@aol.com >>> Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 >>> Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question >>> >>> I'll try too... >>> >>> Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or >> cloudy >>> patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a >> magnifying >>> lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is >>> absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. >>> >>> Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such >>> imperfections >>> closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably >> glass. If >>> they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you >>> don't see >> ANY >>> such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but >>> one >> couldn't be >>> absolutely certain. >>> >>> Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, >>> at least >>> slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles >> perhaps. >>> >>> Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than >>> done". One >>> easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the >>> diameter with >> an >>> accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the >>> specific >>> gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) >>> from high >> school & >>> college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 >>> grams per >> cubic >>> centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. >>> >>> P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the >>> two are so >>> close, it would not be very reliable to use density to >>> distinguish them, >> I'm >>> afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around >>> 2.5 g/cc, >> but >>> can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal >>> (which is >> glass) >>> are even higher. Oh well. >>> >>> cheers, >>> Pete >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life >>> financial >>> challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and >>> information, tips >> and >>> calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/? >>> NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Sep 27 13:53:05 2008 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Sep 27 13:53:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results Message-ID: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I want to thank everyone for your awesome feedback in helping me. The short version is, I do believe that the sphere is quartz. Test results: Hardness: Quartz not glass Density: Quartz or Glass Fractures: Quartz not glass Ultraviolet Light (this test was cool): Quartz not Glass A picture of the sphere can be found here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2892357127_fa71da56b7_b.jpg The longer full version of the story from my personal blog is below: A short while ago, I purchased a sphere at a yard sale. I could tell by its feel that it was not plastic, and was most likely either quartz (rock crystal) or glass. I sent out a message to some of the mail lists that I belong to, hoping that someone would have some quick and easy suggestions to accurately determine whether the sphere was quartz or glass. They quickly responded with ways to differentiate between the two. I decide to experiment today to find my answer. It's pouring heavy rain out there. I grab a jacket, the sphere and a few notes. I head out to the "workshop". First thing I do is take off the wet jacket, and hang it to dry. Let the testing begin. Hardness. Sounds pretty simple. A steel file should scratch glass, but not quartz. If I can only find a file. I search for about five minutes and finally find one. It doesn't seem to make a scratch, so I'd like to say it is quartz. Just the same, I'll feel better doing a bit more. Density. Not a definitive test, but figured it was a good starting point. The specific gravity of quartz is about 2.65. Glass can vary, I'm told, from about 2.4 to 2.8. The other factor is I may not have an extremely accurate measurement here either, so if the answer shows close to quartz, it may not be a definite proof. But I'd guess a high or low density would dismiss the sphere as glass. I need my ruler to measured the diameter. Another trip in the rain and back. I need a calculator. Okay, the diameter seems to be about 4.3 cm, perhaps a tad less. The mass came to 106.4 grams. I need a calculator another trip in the rain and back. The density came to about 2.6. I felt my accuracy range allowed me to say it might be quartz and continue. Inclusions and fractures. I'm told that glass would have no visible inclusions or fractures, or perhaps round bubble. Quartz could have inclusions and fractures in straighter or more jagged shapes. I decide to use my loupe, but it is nowhere to be found in the workshop. Yet another trip into the rain that got even heavier and back again. The sphere did indeed have some of these fractures. So now I'm reasonably sure it is quartz. I decide to do one last test, to make a definitive decision, in case. Ultraviolet light. Short wave ultraviolet light will travel through quartz, but not through glass. I had to get a ladder to climb up high and unplug my ceiling lights, something I didn't feel like doing after my three trips out in the rain. I did it any way, and found this experiment to be a lot of fun and rather fascinating. I brought out a piece of scheelite that glows a bright blue, but only under short wave ultraviolet light. I shine my UV lamp on it. Hello there all happy and bright. I take a piece of glass closest to the size and shape of the sphere that I can find. The stone no longer glows, only appearing its normal gray since the class filters those short wave rays. I then take the sphere and move it eclipsing the UV lamp, as the glas did. The scheelite glow its bright blue. So I feel that I can say that the sphere is quartz. Yay! I also took a sphere that I bought several years ago, and ran it over the UV lamp with the same results. I'm really happy with my results, even though I do see that I need to be more organized. But for now, I just need to wait for my jacket to dry out! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcessna at nist.gov Sat Sep 27 16:37:18 2008 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Sat Sep 27 16:37:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere -> quartz hydrocarbon inclusions In-Reply-To: References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP> <8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20080927192612.01da28d8@mailserver.nist.gov> Dave, Axel, Anybody, What color do your hydrocarbon inclusions fluoresce and under what wavelength? I bought some DT Quartz xtals (location: Duetta Balochistan, Pakistan) today. I see bright blue under SW and slightly less bright under LW. I couldn't tell if I was just seeing internal flaws reflecting the small amount of visible blue from the lamp. I did run the lamp over the whole tray and only saw the blue in some of them. I thought the inclusion I had seen in the past fluoresced yellow/green. Thoughts? Thanks, Jeff PS Does anybody else call these "Herkimers" Pakimers? At 02:27 PM 9/27/2008, you wrote: >Dave, > >Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking >about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz >inclusion are a few millimetres. >Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who wants >it. > >Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens betdav97@aol.com > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > Axel, > > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > > dave > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Axel Emmermann > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > > methane > > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > > small > > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > I'll try too... > > > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > > cloudy > > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > > magnifying > > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > > imperfections > > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > > glass. If > > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > > see > > ANY > > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one > > couldn't be > > > absolutely certain. > > > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > > least > > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > > perhaps. > > > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > > One > > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > > with > > an > > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > > specific > > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from > > high > > school & > > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > > per > > cubic > > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > > are so > > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > > them, > > I'm > > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > > g/cc, > > but > > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is > > glass) > > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > > > cheers, > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, > > tips > > and > > > calculators. > > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Sat Sep 27 16:44:10 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sat Sep 27 16:44:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAEF1212ECBC35-1708-2A38@webmail-nd03.sysops.aol.com> Axel, These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum , they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds, I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers won't easily pick up items that small. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:27 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Dave, Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz inclusion are a few millimetres. Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who wants it. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens betdav97@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > Axel, > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > methane > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > small > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > I'll try too... > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > cloudy > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > magnifying > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > imperfections > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > glass. If > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > see > ANY > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one > couldn't be > > absolutely certain. > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > least > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > perhaps. > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > One > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > with > an > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > specific > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from > high > school & > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > per > cubic > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > are so > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > them, > I'm > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > g/cc, > but > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is > glass) > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > cheers, > > Pete > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, > tips > and > > calculators. > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From agate at cox.net Sat Sep 27 16:56:17 2008 From: agate at cox.net (Hugh Hammerslag) Date: Sat Sep 27 16:56:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Connecticut Almandine In-Reply-To: <8F97A340600641D9909F84DA29862287@LarryRush> Message-ID: <20080927195617.7MJNP.494538.imail@fed1rmwml46> Larry I will purchase #7, 8, and 17 -- Hugh Hammerslag From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Sep 28 03:07:49 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Sep 28 03:08:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere -> quartz hydrocarbon inclusions In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20080927192612.01da28d8@mailserver.nist.gov> References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20080927192612.01da28d8@mailserver.nist.gov> Message-ID: Dave The color seems to depend on the composition of the petroleum. I have seen blue, green and pale yellow. The more orange fluorescing inclusions may be apatite inclusions. I saw those only once in a few crystals but the owner wouldn't give one up for trade. Naturally occurring coronenes and naphtalenes tend to color the fluorescence of hydrocarbon inclusions blue. I don(t know (yet ;-)) where the yellow fluorescence comes from. It could be petroleum that is low in aromatic components. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Jeffrey T. Cessna > Verzonden: zondag 28 september 2008 1:37 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere -> quartz hydrocarbon inclusions > > Dave, Axel, Anybody, > > What color do your hydrocarbon inclusions fluoresce and under what wavelength? > > I bought some DT Quartz xtals (location: Duetta Balochistan, > Pakistan) today. I see bright blue under SW and slightly less bright > under LW. I couldn't tell if I was just seeing internal flaws > reflecting the small amount of visible blue from the lamp. I did run > the lamp over the whole tray and only saw the blue in some of them. > > I thought the inclusion I had seen in the past fluoresced > yellow/green. Thoughts? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > PS Does anybody else call these "Herkimers" Pakimers? > > > At 02:27 PM 9/27/2008, you wrote: > >Dave, > > > >Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking > >about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz > >inclusion are a few millimetres. > >Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who wants > >it. > > > >Axel > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > Namens betdav97@aol.com > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > Axel, > > > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > > > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > > > dave > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Axel Emmermann > > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors' > > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > > > > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > > > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > > > methane > > > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > > > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > > > small > > > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > > > I'll try too... > > > > > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > > > cloudy > > > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > > > magnifying > > > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > > > imperfections > > > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > > > glass. If > > > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > > > see > > > ANY > > > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but one > > > couldn't be > > > > absolutely certain. > > > > > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > > > least > > > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > > > perhaps. > > > > > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > > > One > > > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > > > with > > > an > > > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > > > specific > > > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) from > > > high > > > school & > > > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > > > per > > > cubic > > > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > > > are so > > > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > > > them, > > > I'm > > > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > > > g/cc, > > > but > > > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which is > > > glass) > > > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > > > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, > > > tips > > > and > > > > calculators. > > > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 07:56:01 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 28 07:56:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz hydrocarbon inclusions In-Reply-To: References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com><6.2.3.4.2.20080927192612.01da28d8@mailserver.nist.gov> Message-ID: <8CAEF9174C45549-1744-3F57@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> Axel, Ours only fluoresce blue SW and green LW. I haven't seen any yellow. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 6:07 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere -> quartz hydrocarbon inclusions Dave The color seems to depend on the composition of the petroleum. I have seen blue, green and pale yellow. The more orange fluorescing inclusions may be apatite inclusions. I saw those only once in a few crystals but the owner wouldn't give one up for trade. Naturally occurring coronenes and naphtalenes tend to color the fluorescence of hydrocarbon inclusions blue. I don(t know (yet ;-)) where the yellow fluorescence comes from. It could be petroleum that is low in aromatic components. Cheers Axel From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sun Sep 28 08:08:22 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sun Sep 28 08:01:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question References: <20A008DB-8B6D-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c9217c$0cbfd690$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> I'm jumping in here late, be wouldn't the hardness difference between glass and quartz help in identification? I have collected Herkimers from St. Johnsville, NY that have spots of blue fluorescence, it seems to be Antraxolite. I have always wondered if the creamy yellow of some mid-west fluorite was due to petroleum. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > Ron, > > Natural Quartz crystal has 99 percent or more silicon dioxide content > verses glass items that typically contain 80 percent or less silicon > dioxide. Specific Gravity should give you an effective test. > > Kreigh > > > > On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 21:11 America/Detroit, The Hammer wrote: > > > I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing that > > it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere is > > roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have suggestions > > for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? > > > > Ron > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Sep 28 08:16:18 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 28 08:16:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <000f01c9217c$0cbfd690$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <20A008DB-8B6D-11DD-8E91-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <000f01c9217c$0cbfd690$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <8CAEF944A374685-1744-3FA6@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> Carolyn, Our crystals from another part of the state fluoresce only blue from Antraxolite and short wave only. These are associated with coal deposits. The other quartz that fluoresces, comes only from limestone. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn Reynard To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:08 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question I'm jumping in here late, be wouldn't the hardness difference between glass and quartz help in identification? I have collected Herkimers from St. Johnsville, NY that have spots of blue fluorescence, it seems to be Antraxolite. I have always wondered if the creamy yellow of some mid-west fluorite was due to petroleum. Carolyn Reynard From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Sep 28 17:18:10 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Sep 28 17:18:26 2008 Subject: Fluorite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question} In-Reply-To: <000f01c9217c$0cbfd690$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <18D7A907-8DBC-11DD-BD6B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Carolyn, From "THE PHOTO_LUMINESCENCE OF ILLINOIS FLUORITE AND CERTAIN ZINC MINERALS AND ASSOCIATED SPECIES FROM THE JOPLIN, MISSOURI, DISTRICT"... "Although Engelhardt made the statement that organic compounds must be regarded as being responsible for the fluorescence of fluorite,7 it would now appear, according to the recent investigation of ranaka,8 that in many instances the rare elements samarium, yttrium, thallium, and others, are the chief activating agents. Engelhardt's conclusion is probably true for certain specimens of fluorite, as for example the one just described, but the rare element theory seems to ofier a better explanation for most fluorescent fluorites. The results of Tanaka's work is corroborated by the earlier work of urbain,e who found. that rare earth elements were responsible for the cathodo-luminescence of fluorite". The complete paper is available at http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM18/AM18_68.pdf. I stumbled across it this evening in a Google search looking for something else and still had it up in my browser when I got your email. Kreigh On Sunday, Sep 28, 2008, at 11:08 America/Detroit, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I'm jumping in here late, be wouldn't the hardness difference between > glass > and quartz help in identification? > > I have collected Herkimers from St. Johnsville, NY that have spots of > blue > fluorescence, it seems to be Antraxolite. I have always wondered if > the > creamy yellow of some mid-west fluorite was due to petroleum. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > >> Ron, >> >> Natural Quartz crystal has 99 percent or more silicon dioxide content >> verses glass items that typically contain 80 percent or less silicon >> dioxide. Specific Gravity should give you an effective test. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 21:11 America/Detroit, The Hammer wrote: >> >>> I recently bought a polished sphere at a yard sale. I am guessing >>> that >>> it is most likely either rock crystal (quartz) or glass. The sphere >>> is >>> roughly an inch and a half in diameter. Would anyone have >>> suggestions >>> for the best ways to distiguish wether it is quartz or glass? >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Sep 28 18:31:12 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:31:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Message-ID: You are for sure right about the hardness, Carolyn, after all our fancier discussion back & forth, I was thinking about that simple test, figured someone else would mention it sooner or later. Common glass has a hardness of about 5-1/2, so of course, trying to scratch the sphere with, say, a piece of feldspar, should show whether it's "just glass" or quartz. (If you don't mind possibly putting a scratch on your crystal sphere.) Or, try scratching it with quartz; it should "barely" be able to scratch a quartz sphere, or fairly easily, if it is glass. A lot of these test are "harder in practice than they sound in principle". I tried the polarized light test; got lenses from old polaroid sunglass, and put a small quartz sphere I have (which does have a number of inclusions & fracture planes in it) between them. The result was very ambiguous; between light coming in from the sides, not holding the polaroid lenses perfectly steady, light reflecting within the sphere & off the inclusions, it was very hard to tell whether the sphere was alternating dark & light when turned, as it should between crossed polarizers. I gave up. (presumably, a perfectly clear inclusion-free sphere, would be easier to test) Pete **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mineral.maertens at att.net Sun Sep 28 18:29:03 2008 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sun Sep 28 18:32:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: USB Microscopes In-Reply-To: <200809280100.m8S10JoT002902@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Digital/electronic microscopes Most look like a regular microscope with junk videocamera built-in. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=digital+microscope&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF -8&start=10&sa=N microscopeworld.com http://microscope-depot.com/digital.asp http://www.digital-microscope.org Low resolution: up to 712x582 pixels Digital Blue QX3+ Computer Microscope (Intel) aka digital microscopes from National Optical Model DC3-420T $1390 (microscopeworld.com) Digital Binocular Stereo Microscope & Software. Medium res. camera. W-02400 $549.95 (microscope-depot.com) Incl. bottom light Digital Binocular Stereo Microscope & Software. T-02100 $1,389.95 (microscope-depot.com). Incl. bottom light BroDigit, need RCA video caputure to computer tool Moticam: http://www.motic.com/ap/eng/products/NEW_PRODUCTS/camspecification.ht ml The Moticam 1300 has 1280 x 1024 image versus a Coolpix 995 that has a 2048 X 1536 pixel tiff image at it highest resolution. Ignore: http://www.greatscopes.com/3090.htm; The 3090 Digital AccuScope http://www.proscope.net The ProScope is a handheld Digital USB Microscope. The scope is 72 dpi, 640 x 480, in millions of colors. It is meant to be a general purpose microscope. http://www.mic-d.com MIC-D digital microscope. 30 mm working distance only! Resolution level 310K-pixel VGA (640x480 pixel). Imaging device: 1/3-inch CMOS color digital camera, pixel size 5.4x4(mm), USB connection $795 http://www.zarbeco.com/infinity_usb_cameras.htm Infinity series USB cameras. The Infinity 1 camera provides 1.3 megapixels (1280 x 1024 pixels) at 15 frames/seconds with total control over brightness, contrast, exposure, color and white balance. The Infinity X adds the ability to capture images at 21 megapixels (5120 x 4096 pixels) through a patented pixel-shifting technology. http://microscopeworld.com/digital/DAC3-CoolPix-compare.htm The National digital cameras and integrated digital microscopes (DC series) can capture images up to an image size of 640X480. The Nikon CoolPix can capture up to an image size up to 2048X1536. With the CoolPix, you will capture a better image but you will have to purchase additional software for analysis. If you need more image quality than the National products can provide (640X480) you should use a standard microscope and the consumer digital camera like the CoolPix. The digital camera solution will cost more and it is somewhat more cumbersome transferring images from the camera to your computer but the camera can also be used for other things. http://www.microscopeworld.com/DigitalMicro/ MC-1000 Digital Camera Kit $399 The MC-1000 Digital Camera Kit is our latest addition and we know you will want one! Unlike the earlier digital imaging devices below which use a CCD pickup device, the MC-1000 uses a 1.3 Megapixel CMOS chip and is capable of displaying live or captured images up to 1280X1024. It has a 10 foot cable and connects to a USB 2.0 port on your computer. With the software, you can get a full screen live image on your monitor. These images can be captured as bmp, jpg or tiff files and accurate measurements can be made on them using your mouse. If you need more resolution (1600X1200), choose our MC-2000 (below). Both models include adapters which will allow you to connect up to just about any microscope. They utilize the newer USB 2.0 data bus and they include a USB 2.0 card (PCI) if you "need the speed". MC- 2000 Digital Camera Kits $899 The MC-2000 Digital Camera Kit is also a new addition. When you need more resolution than the MC-1000 can provide, choose the MC-2000. It employs a 2.0 MegaPixel CMOS chip and provides a maximum resolution of 1600X1200. It includes the same powerful Images 2000 software, calibration slides and eyepiece lens adapters. In additon to all the accessories supplied with the MC-1000, the MC-2000 has a universal "C" mount adapter that will mate the camera to the trinocular port on most microscopes (23 or 30mm diameter tubes). The "MC" cameras require relatively fast computers and a USB 2.0 connection. If your computer doesn't h KONUSPIX-4 # 5022 Microscope -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ http://www.opticsplanet.net/konus-300x-konuspix-digital-toy-microscop e.html Konus 300x Konuspix Digital Microscope is capable of 100, 200 and 300 magnifications! This microscope is a pure toy! Konus 300x Konuspix Digital Microscopes come with double illumination with incidental and transmitted light. Special microscope head camera changes into web camera (webcam) and digital camera (digicam). USB cable for computer connection is provided and makes it easy to connect this microscope to any computer. Microscope's digital camera supports 640x480 pixels. KONUSPIX-4 digital microscope is supplied with PC software for image processing Digital Blue QX5 Without Eyepiece Microscope: Overview -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Magnify your knowledge and explore the world of science with the QX5 Computer Microscope. Perfect for students or adults, the microscope features all the benefits of the old QX3 along with new features for an even better experience. The complete package includes a computer microscope, Creative Editing and Viewing software, Activity Guidebook/Parent's Guide, science lab supplies and slide clip. Discover how much fun science can be right on your home computer. The microscope comes packed with lots of new features, including super bright LED lighting for brighter, longer-lasting top and bottom illumination. View all the intricate details of specimens with the higher resolution of 640 x 480 and three times faster video playback at 15 frames per second. The software also includes new sample measurement tools to continue your experiments. Find out what microscopic particles make up our everyday world. Konus CCD Minicam Microscope Video Camera Eyepiece Kit w/ stereoscopic microscopes adapter - 5827 This model of Konus Microscope Accessories has been discontinued and no longer available. Konus CCD 220V-50Hz Minicam, sensor size 1/3", picture elements 620 (H) x 580 (V) lines, total pixels 359.600, automatic resolution, power 220V with low voltage transformer. Konus CCD Minicam Microscopes Video Camera Kis can be easily inserted, with or without adapters, in the microscope eyepiece-holder. The kit includes: minicam, video cable, power cable, stereoscopic microscopes adapter. Konus CCD COLOR CAMERA f/MICRSOPES(NTSC)220V (SKU: 5829) Konus CCD COLOR CAMERA f/MICRSOPES (NTSC) Mfr# 5829 ? B&H# KOCCDC B&H Photo-Video. 1,3 Mpix (1280x1008) http://www.spectra.com.ua/products.php?d=4&s=20 KONUS #5827 CCD camera ??? ??????????? (TV-out) Johan Maertens Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 29 01:37:15 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 29 01:37:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <8CAEF1212ECBC35-1708-2A38@webmail-nd03.sysops.aol.com> References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com> <8CAEF1212ECBC35-1708-2A38@webmail-nd03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9DB053682305456AA9486255FCC805CC@AXELDESKTOP> Dave, The sparkle is easily explaned by internal reflection of the inclusions. As you turn the crystals (or move them), these reflections shoot around inside them. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens betdav97@aol.com > Verzonden: zondag 28 september 2008 1:44 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > Axel, > These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum , > they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short > wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds, > I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest > may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil > seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use > hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers > won't easily pick up items that small. > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:27 pm > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > Dave, > > Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking > about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz > inclusion are a few millimetres. > Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who > wants > it. > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens betdav97@aol.com > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > Axel, > > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > > dave > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Axel Emmermann > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > > methane > > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > > small > > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > I'll try too... > > > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > > cloudy > > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > > magnifying > > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > > imperfections > > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > > glass. If > > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > > see > > ANY > > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but > one > > couldn't be > > > absolutely certain. > > > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > > least > > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > > perhaps. > > > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > > One > > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > > with > > an > > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > > specific > > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) > from > > high > > school & > > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > > per > > cubic > > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > > are so > > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > > them, > > I'm > > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > > g/cc, > > but > > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which > is > > glass) > > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > > > cheers, > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life > financial > > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, > > tips > > and > > > calculators. > > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Sep 29 06:15:24 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Sep 29 06:07:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question References: Message-ID: <001701c92235$6f484c70$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> Thanks Pete! I think basic due to the years of teaching children. Before retirement I was teaching elementary art. I had a "before school group" of young rockhounds. We studied the properties of minerals, learned about rocks and attempted to identify the numerous things they would bring to our class. I did tell them quartz would scratch window glass...... "but please practice on our glass plates as any scratch on glass eventually will weaken it". I could just hear parents complaining about the scratches on their windows. Luckily that didn't happen. It was fun to see what they brought in, of course we had some concrete and asphalt. We called it man-made conglomerate or breccia. One boy brought in several specimens I knew had come from Franklin or Sterling Hill, NJ. He said he had found them in the field behind his house. Obviously dumped by a collector. I believe most children are natural rockhounds, they are close to the ground, have excellent eyesight, are curious, natural collectors and packrats. It would be great if our elementary schools, rockhound groups and parents could offer more hands on science experiences for our eager kids. Our society the Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society of Poughkeepsie, NY has developed a strong junior rockhound group. We find we are asked to help in schools, assist at community activities with our mineral & fossils digs and offer programs for seniors who are involved with Life Learning. We are busier than we have members to do all of these activities, but we try. So, yes quartz will scratch glass, you should see those glass plates we were using! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > You are for sure right about the hardness, Carolyn, after all our fancier > discussion back & forth, I was thinking about that simple test, figured someone > else would mention it sooner or later. > > Common glass has a hardness of about 5-1/2, so of course, trying to scratch > the sphere with, say, a piece of feldspar, should show whether it's "just > glass" or quartz. (If you don't mind possibly putting a scratch on your crystal > sphere.) Or, try scratching it with quartz; it should "barely" be able to > scratch a quartz sphere, or fairly easily, if it is glass. > > A lot of these test are "harder in practice than they sound in principle". > I tried the polarized light test; got lenses from old polaroid sunglass, and > put a small quartz sphere I have (which does have a number of inclusions & > fracture planes in it) between them. The result was very ambiguous; between > light coming in from the sides, not holding the polaroid lenses perfectly > steady, light reflecting within the sphere & off the inclusions, it was very hard > to tell whether the sphere was alternating dark & light when turned, as it > should between crossed polarizers. I gave up. (presumably, a perfectly clear > inclusion-free sphere, would be easier to test) > > Pete > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 07:47:27 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 29 07:48:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question In-Reply-To: <9DB053682305456AA9486255FCC805CC@AXELDESKTOP> References: <14D8E943B23E4B87BF28AB76C1ABF4EB@AXELDESKTOP><8CAEE30381A0A1A-554-7C0@webmail-nf18.sim.aol.com><8CAEF1212ECBC35-1708-2A38@webmail-nd03.sysops.aol.com> <9DB053682305456AA9486255FCC805CC@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <8CAF0596CCD6341-1568-B9B@WEBMAIL-MB08.sysops.aol.com> Well, I know that, I thought we on topic about fluorescence. -----Original Message----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 4:37 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question Dave, The sparkle is easily explaned by internal reflection of the inclusions. As you turn the crystals (or move them), these reflections shoot around inside them. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens betdav97@aol.com > Verzonden: zondag 28 september 2008 1:44 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > Axel, > These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum , > they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short > wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds, > I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest > may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil > seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use > hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers > won't easily pick up items that small. > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:27 pm > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > Dave, > > Is this in crystals ore massive quartzite? The crystals that I'm talking > about are only about 1 cm (0,39 in) or less in size. The Afghan quartz > inclusion are a few millimetres. > Very pretty indeed but small. I can send a photo off list to any who > wants > it. > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens betdav97@aol.com > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 22:47 > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > Axel, > > Our quartz from WV that has petroleum and > > carbon inclusions, that fluoresce also. > > dave > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Axel Emmermann > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 2:46 pm > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > > > I have dome "herkimer quartz" from Afghanistan. > > The gas bubbles inside contain a naturally cracked petroleum with > > methane > > bubbles, petroleum and asphalt. All very nicely fluorescent too. > > The bubbles sometimes show a "negative" quartz crystal shape. As if a > > small > > quartz crystal inside dissolved somehow. Rather puzzling. > > > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > > Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 26 september 2008 4:29 > > > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question > > > > > > I'll try too... > > > > > > Almost all quartz crystal will have some imperfections--fractures or > > cloudy > > > patches or inclusions. If it does have them (check it out with a > > magnifying > > > lens), it's probably confirmed as quartz. If it has none, if it is > > > absolutely clear with no flaws at all, it is likely glass. > > > > > > Along the same line, to be more sure; scrutinize any such > > imperfections > > > closely. If they are bubbles, little spherical ones, it is probably > > glass. If > > > they are lines or planes of some sort, then, quartz. If you don't > > see > > ANY > > > such things of any sort--well, as I said, I'd suspect glass, but > one > > couldn't be > > > absolutely certain. > > > > > > Look at in under a black light too. A lot of glass fluoresces, at > > least > > > slightly; most quartz does not, except for any inclusion particles > > perhaps. > > > > > > Measuring the specific gravity is probably "easier said than done". > > One > > > easy way; weigh it on an accurate balance, then measure the diameter > > with > > an > > > accurate pair of calipers, and calculate the volume and then the > > specific > > > gravity, using "simple geometry which everyone remembers (ha ha) > from > > high > > school & > > > college math & physics. Quartz should be very close to 2.65 grams > > per > > cubic > > > centimter; glass, as Kreigh says, should be somewhat less. > > > > > > P.S., I just tried looking this up (density of glass), and the two > > are so > > > close, it would not be very reliable to use density to distinguish > > them, > > I'm > > > afraid. I find the density of common "crown" glass to be around 2.5 > > g/cc, > > but > > > can vary from 2.4 to 2.8, and "flint glass" and lead crystal (which > is > > glass) > > > are even higher. Oh well. > > > > > > cheers, > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life > financial > > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, > > tips > > and > > > calculators. > > (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Sep 29 09:22:01 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 29 09:22:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence In-Reply-To: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> ________ (hmmm, I was going to add your name, "Hammerron", but I see the email doesn't actually give a name, OK anyway), Thanks for that good thorough report on your tests on the quartz sphere.? Your picture, with all the fractures in it, looks a lot like the small sphere that I have.? Sounds like it was all worth it, getting wet that many times. And a P.S. to Dave et al., reading through the various posts about the fluorsescent inclusions in quartz, I'm trying to get clear (but maybe it was explained in earlier emails), are "your crystals" Herkimers, or are you talking about somewhere else? Cheers, Pete Axel,? ?These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum ,? they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short? wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds,? I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest? may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil? seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use? hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers? won't easily pick up items that small.? Dave? ? -----Original Message----- From: The Hammer To: post Rockhounds Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:53 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results I want to thank everyone for your awesome feedback in helping me. The short version is, I do believe that the sphere is quartz. Test results: Hardness: Quartz not glass Density: Quartz or Glass Fractures: Quartz not glass Ultraviolet Light (this test was cool): Quartz not Glass A picture of the sphere can be found here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2892357127_fa71da56b7_b.jpg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Sep 29 10:05:32 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Sep 29 10:05:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence In-Reply-To: <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> References: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CAF06CB6E7C055-AD0-742@WEBMAIL-MC13.sysops.aol.com> Pete, My crystals are from West Virginia, not New York, and they come from the Greenbrier Limestone. The ones with coal inclusions come from a clay deposit associated with coal, again from WVa. dave -----Original Message----- From: pmodreski@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:22 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence ________ (hmmm, I was going to add your name, "Hammerron", but I see the email doesn't actually give a name, OK anyway), Thanks for that good thorough report on your tests on the quartz sphere.? Your picture, with all the fractures in it, looks a lot like the small sphere that I have.? Sounds like it was all worth it, getting wet that many times. And a P.S. to Dave et al., reading through the various posts about the fluorsescent inclusions in quartz, I'm trying to get clear (but maybe it was explained in earlier emails), are "your crystals" Herkimers, or are you talking about somewhere else? Cheers, Pete Axel,? ?These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum ,? they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short? wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds,? I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest? may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil? seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use? hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers? won't easily pick up items that small.? Dave? ? -----Original Message----- From: The Hammer To: post Rockhounds Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:53 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results I want to thank everyone for your awesome feedback in helping me. The short version is, I do believe that the sphere is quartz. Test results: Hardness: Quartz not glass Density: Quartz or Glass Fractures: Quartz not glass Ultraviolet Light (this test was cool): Quartz not Glass A picture of the sphere can be found here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2892357127_fa71da56b7_b.jpg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mhibberd at netzero.net Mon Sep 29 10:36:22 2008 From: mhibberd at netzero.net (mhibberd@netzero.net) Date: Mon Sep 29 10:38:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil areas in Pa and Delaware Message-ID: <20080929.133622.5016.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Thank you for information regarding fossil site I am planning to go the first weekend in Nov,and thank you so very much for Fran Poniecki the childeren loved him and I hope he can come back next year. Thanks Again Mary Hibberd ____________________________________________________________ Find the right teaching school to meet your educational needs. Click to learn more. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4ueZ2NDDdLlTmblw2718kWPOy9YituKdf739mWL88vZx9Uh5/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Mon Sep 29 11:21:24 2008 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Mon Sep 29 11:21:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence Message-ID: <376229.63168.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Pete, It was a pleasure the report back. This group is an awesome resource. -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: "pmodreski@aol.com" To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:22:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence ________ (hmmm, I was going to add your name, "Hammerron", but I see the email doesn't actually give a name, OK anyway), Thanks for that good thorough report on your tests on the quartz sphere.? Your picture, with all the fractures in it, looks a lot like the small sphere that I have.? Sounds like it was all worth it, getting wet that many times. And a P.S. to Dave et al., reading through the various posts about the fluorsescent inclusions in quartz, I'm trying to get clear (but maybe it was explained in earlier emails), are "your crystals" Herkimers, or are you talking about somewhere else? Cheers, Pete Axel,? ?These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum ,? they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short? wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds,? I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest? may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil? seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use? hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers? won't easily pick up items that small.? Dave? ? -----Original Message----- From: The Hammer To: post Rockhounds Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:53 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results I want to thank everyone for your awesome feedback in helping me. The short version is, I do believe that the sphere is quartz. Test results: Hardness: Quartz not glass Density: Quartz or Glass Fractures: Quartz not glass Ultraviolet Light (this test was cool): Quartz not Glass A picture of the sphere can be found here: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2892357127_fa71da56b7_b.jpg --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Sep 29 13:23:43 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Sep 29 13:24:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence In-Reply-To: <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> References: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <419652DD45554F62838EFF14CF730B3B@AXELDESKTOP> Pete, Well, we call them Herkimers because they look like the real ones from Herkimer ;-))) The come from Badhakshan, Afghanistan. Small double terminated XX. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: maandag 29 september 2008 18:22 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results + fluorescence > > ________ (hmmm, I was going to add your name, "Hammerron", but I see the email doesn't > actually give a name, OK anyway), > > Thanks for that good thorough report on your tests on the quartz sphere.? Your picture, > with all the fractures in it, looks a lot like the small sphere that I have.? Sounds like it was > all worth it, getting wet that many times. > > And a P.S. to Dave et al., reading through the various posts about the fluorsescent inclusions > in quartz, I'm trying to get clear (but maybe it was explained in earlier emails), are "your > crystals" Herkimers, or are you talking about somewhere else? > > Cheers, Pete > > > Axel,? > ?These are also small quartz crystals that have petroleum ,? > they fluoresce green under long wave and blue under short? > wave. When you have a handful they sparkle just like diamonds,? > I don't mean to sound trite, but they really sparkle. The largest? > may be 1 cm. most are smaller. We find them by looking for oil? > seeps in the limestone, than try to open a pocket and use? > hemostats to pick them out. Time consuming but my fingers? > won't easily pick up items that small.? > Dave? > ? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: The Hammer > To: post Rockhounds > Sent: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 2:53 pm > Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Sphere results > > > > I want to thank everyone for your awesome feedback in helping me. > The short version is, I do believe that the sphere is quartz. > > Test results: > Hardness: Quartz not glass > Density: Quartz or Glass > Fractures: Quartz not glass > Ultraviolet Light (this test was cool): Quartz not Glass > > A picture of the sphere can be found here: > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/2892357127_fa71da56b7_b.jpg > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Sep 29 22:10:16 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Sep 29 22:10:25 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] tire tumbler In-Reply-To: <419652DD45554F62838EFF14CF730B3B@AXELDESKTOP> References: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> <419652DD45554F62838EFF14CF730B3B@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <48E1B4B8.6000101@hawaiiantel.net> Hi List, I came across a tire (or for you Brits, tyre) tumbler that I thought some on this list might find interesting or useful. This link has descriptions and photos. http://www.greatsouth.net/ray_builds_big_tumbler.htm [I have no connection with this site and this is not an endorsement] Aloha, Kitty From rhill at lpl.arizona.edu Mon Sep 29 22:16:24 2008 From: rhill at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Hill) Date: Mon Sep 29 22:16:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] tire tumbler In-Reply-To: <48E1B4B8.6000101@hawaiiantel.net> References: <587724.95915.qm@web83505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8CAF066A3140EA2-AB8-1173@WEBMAIL-DY24.sysops.aol.com> <419652DD45554F62838EFF14CF730B3B@AXELDESKTOP> <48E1B4B8.6000101@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <48E1B628.4000700@lpl.arizona.edu> Great idea! Well done. -Rik Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi List, > > I came across a tire (or for you Brits, tyre) tumbler that I thought > some on this list might find interesting or useful. This link has > descriptions and photos. > > http://www.greatsouth.net/ray_builds_big_tumbler.htm > > [I have no connection with this site and this is not an endorsement] > > Aloha, Kitty From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Sep 30 02:21:06 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Sep 30 02:21:27 2008 Subject: Fluorite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] quartz sphere question} In-Reply-To: <18D7A907-8DBC-11DD-BD6B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <000f01c9217c$0cbfd690$9be7ce45@feldsparflash> <18D7A907-8DBC-11DD-BD6B-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi Kreigh and Carolyn, > > "Although Engelhardt made the statement that organic compounds > must be regarded as being responsible for the fluorescence of > fluorite,7 [Axel] In most cases you would be able to see the droplets of HC or petroleum under a stereo-microscope or even with a strong magnifying glass. In the Rosiclaire and Cave-in -Rock specimens I saw, the unaided eye is all you need ;-))) In yellow fluorite from Moscona, Spain, the organic matter is dispersed in the form of a very fine dust. Every other crystal or so has a dark inclusion of a tar-like substance but without that it would be real hard to tell if the mineral fluoresces because of an activator or if it's contaminated with hydrocarbons. > it would now appear, according to the recent investigation > of ranaka,8 that in many instances the rare elements samarium, > yttrium, thallium, and others, are the chief activating agents. [Axel] Yttrium is not a rare earth element in strictu sensu... It shares lots of their properties and is often regarded upon as one. If it replace a substantial part of the calcium in fluorite you get yttrium-fluorite which fluoresces yellow. Europium would cause a blue fluorescence and rumour has it that samarium could be the cause of a red fluorescence. Manganese and Erbium cause green fluorescence (if I remember correctly). > Engelhardt's conclusion is probably true for certain specimens of > fluorite, as for example the one just described, but the rare element > theory seems to ofier a better explanation for most fluorescent > fluorites. [Axel] There is also the possibility of e-centers in zones of disturbed crystal growth. This has been investigated by Prof. Renaud Vochten (Vochtenite). I'm sure that the last word about fluorescence hasn't been spoken yet. Cheers Axel From magnet at crocoite.com Tue Sep 30 04:28:49 2008 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Tue Sep 30 04:28:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Australian & New Zealand Mineral Collector Magazine Issue 7... Message-ID: <20080930112849.2780.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all Issue 7 of the Australian and New Zealand Mineral Collector Magazine is now available from http://www.lulu.com/smartarts Issue 7 contains articles on new minerals in Australia, Australians in Minas Gerais, Keith Lancaster - a Tasmanian collecting pioneer, thorian brannerite and more. Priced at US$10, full colour 28 pages. Regards Steve Looking for a 2009 mineral calendar? Check this one out - http://www.lulu.com/smartarts Check out Steve's Spot at http://crocoite.blogspot.com/ This year's Australasian Mineral Society Seminar is in Tasmania Check details here --> http://www.tasmanianlapidary.org.au/jamss2008.htm From ajs at frii.com Tue Sep 30 18:15:54 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Sep 30 18:15:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] tire tumbler In-Reply-To: <48E1B4B8.6000101@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <20081001011554.EBB681CC4A@io.frii.com> > I came across a tire (or for you Brits, tyre) tumbler that I thought > some on this list might find interesting or useful. This link has > descriptions and photos. > > http://www.greatsouth.net/ray_builds_big_tumbler.htm Where he wrote: > For years now I have been wanting to make me a large tire tumbler. I > had heard of such a thing and even saw a sketch of something like this > recently on a web site some where. Probably mine! :-) See: http://silgro.com/RockTumbling.htm I built one about 7-8 years ago, I forget. Somewhat refined over time, still running. Just ordered another 300 pounds of coarse and fine grit... >From his photos, it looks like he had leakage problems too (my old door design, now revised), and is able to run without upright supports somehow (I had to add them). He used 3/4" inch shafts, mine are 5/8". I also run without grit at times (like right now) for a day or so, for initial cleanup and sorting... Grit runs are 4 days, 2 gallons of rock, 1 gallon of water, 2 cups of grit. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From rhill at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Sep 30 20:21:27 2008 From: rhill at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Hill) Date: Tue Sep 30 20:23:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] tire tumbler In-Reply-To: <20081001011554.EBB681CC4A@io.frii.com> References: <20081001011554.EBB681CC4A@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <48E2ECB7.1080503@lpl.arizona.edu> Hmmmm, looks like a good reTIREment project. -Rik Alan Silverstein wrote: >> I came across a tire (or for you Brits, tyre) tumbler that I thought >> some on this list might find interesting or useful. This link has >> descriptions and photos. >> >> http://www.greatsouth.net/ray_builds_big_tumbler.htm >> > > Where he wrote: > > >> For years now I have been wanting to make me a large tire tumbler. I >> had heard of such a thing and even saw a sketch of something like this >> recently on a web site some where. >> > > Probably mine! :-) See: > > http://silgro.com/RockTumbling.htm > > I built one about 7-8 years ago, I forget. Somewhat refined over time, > still running. Just ordered another 300 pounds of coarse and fine > grit... > > >From his photos, it looks like he had leakage problems too (my old door > design, now revised), and is able to run without upright supports > somehow (I had to add them). > > He used 3/4" inch shafts, mine are 5/8". > > I also run without grit at times (like right now) for a day or so, for > initial cleanup and sorting... Grit runs are 4 days, 2 gallons of rock, > 1 gallon of water, 2 cups of grit. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein >