From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jan 1 02:15:34 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 1 02:15:43 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] emerald In-Reply-To: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> References: <123120081200.5143.495B5ECD0003F5CB0000141722243651029B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Message-ID: <4715DC148DBC40569F707C23D3B2C2A5@AXELDESKTOP> > In terms of the value of millions being assigned to this piece, I guess anything is possible on > eBay. To me, this amount defies logic, since we are not talking Colombian emeralds, nor are > Bahia emeralds difficult to obtain, even in large matrix pieces.But, as we have seen again and > again, the general public really knows very little about the processing, marketing and quality > of gemstones. EJW Absolutely true, Ed. I once saw "the blessing of God for all future projects" being sold on eBay. The price was somewhere in the millions... Buyitnow ;-))) If you're crazy enough to spend your money on a scam like that... Cheers Axel From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 06:27:51 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 1 06:27:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it every five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of that stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, some ancient - shield volcano? I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be more confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before teh end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood basalt eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the crust itself if I never heard of it before. But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at all. This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to understand it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, hah, hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink of extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. Sometimes very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground under such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it does that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when they happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is building up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all means. The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a hole in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from under the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction consistent with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part of the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap formed by the previous eruption. Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated page on teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the web pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster eruptions every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the area. I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I thought people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some new technical papers that ought to include that information. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Dora Smith ; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone Were the Yellowstone flows of the flood basalt type or did it build up an actual large dome and erupt from there? I had the impression that these were fissure type eruptions. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 19:06, Dora Smith wrote: OK, my site is fixed. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html I bet there are people here who might have an idea what to make of this. I incorporated some maps on my web site. The bulge and the earthquakes are occuring in and immediately around the northern part of the lake. Well, the bulge may be bigger, but taht seems to be where it's gotten attention. One of the maps shows the location of previous lava flows, as indicated by two types of volcanic rock. The danger of a caldera volcano, and the reason why pressure builds up to massive proportions, is typically the layer of hard volcanic rock over teh caldera. Now, I don't know if there is in fact no volcanic rock wehre the lake is. The entire area where teh bulge and the quakes are is within the caldera. Which suggests that it should be covered with volcanic rock. However, if you notice, they are not where the rhyolite is. None of it is where the basalt is; it's as if the most recent and largest eruption didn't do basalt. Comments, anyone? I added some new links to newer technical papers about the caldera and its behavior to my site. (I also added a link to the Wikipedia article and fixed three links to one web site that moved.) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 06:29:11 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 1 06:29:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <004b01c96c1d$51187ae0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> That's a flood basalt eruption. Yellowstone is a caldera volcano - they rather give new meaning to pyroclastic flow. It a very different critter, and it also doesn't resemble one of those cone volcanoes. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Dora Smith ; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone I guess I can answer my own question. From the Craters of the Moon site: "A typical eruption along the Great Rift and similar basaltic rift systems in starts with a curtain of very fluid lava shooting up to 1,000 feet (300 m) high along a segment of the rift up to 1 mile (1.6 km) long.[25] As the eruption continues pressure and heat decrease and the chemistry of the lava becomes slightly more silica rich. The curtain of lava responds by breaking apart into separate vents. Various types of volcanos may form at these vents; gas-rich pulverized lava creates cinder cones (such as Inferno Cone ? stop 4) and pasty lava blobs form spatter cones (such as Spatter Cones ? stop 5).[7] Later stages of an eruption push lava streams out through the side or bottom of cinder cones, which usually ends the life of the cinder cone (North Crater, Watchmen, and Sheep Trail Butte are notable exceptions). This will sometimes breach part of the cone and carry it away as large and craggy blocks of cinder (as seen at North Crater Flow ? stop 2 ? and Devils Orchard ? stop 3). Solid crust forms over lava streams and lava tubes (a type of cave) are created when lava vacates its course (examples can be seen at the Cave Area ? stop 7)." "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craters_of_the_Moon_National_Monument_and_Preserve" Actually that site says that Craters has erupted 8 times with 500-3000 year periods between eruptions. The last one was 2000 years ago so they are expecting one within a 100 years. Seems like a long way from the Yellowstone hotspot tho. Unless the magma mass extends that far to the west. I'd guess over a 100 miles. I actually had a personal learning experience at Craters. My room mate and I were in the Navy and got transferred from the Frisco Bay area to Arco/Idaho Falls. The day after we got there we ran out to Craters, it was July the 3rd. We were rockclimbers and wanted to explore some of the lava tubes so we carried our climbing gear into the park. Without encountering a ranger. The temp was about 80 degrees when we got to a lava tube window and roped up. We rappelled down, explored for an hour or so and came out to find it was now about 25 degrees and snowing heavily. Strange pellet like snow too. But we were 40 feet down and the only way back up was up the rope. I used a prussic knot which lets you slide the knot up the rope (when you take your weight off the loop the knot is attached to) but holds firm when you put weight on the loop. That lets you climb up a rope by alternating feet (separate loop and knot for each foot). All was well on the 35 feet of free rope but when the rope got to the last 6 or 8 feet of lip, the rope was forced into the rock by my weight on the rope. My feet were still hanging free and my weight forced my feet out at and angle on the rope. That meant I had to pull the rope off the rock, take weight off one foot and try to slide that loop up the rope while holding it away from the rock face. All this dangling 35 feet up, in the snow (or maybe it was sleet) and freezing too since we just had light clothing on. Things were looking grim, I was going up about an inch at a time (or so it seemed). My climbing buddy was shouting imprecations from below. I was getting very tired and cold. All of a sudden this detached hand grabs me by the collar and pulls me up to the top. It was a ranger and I was rather happy to see him...heh. We got my friend up and were happy to accept the tongue lashing lecture. It was darned stupid. But that was my intro to western mountain weather. I got another lesson on the road thru the park about black ice, later that year in the winter. Oh I bought some Jumars right after that for those of you who have done some climbing. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 20:11, J Bryan Kramer wrote: Were the Yellowstone flows of the flood basalt type or did it build up an actual large dome and erupt from there? I had the impression that these were fissure type eruptions. BK On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 19:06, Dora Smith wrote: OK, my site is fixed. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html I bet there are people here who might have an idea what to make of this. I incorporated some maps on my web site. The bulge and the earthquakes are occuring in and immediately around the northern part of the lake. Well, the bulge may be bigger, but taht seems to be where it's gotten attention. One of the maps shows the location of previous lava flows, as indicated by two types of volcanic rock. The danger of a caldera volcano, and the reason why pressure builds up to massive proportions, is typically the layer of hard volcanic rock over teh caldera. Now, I don't know if there is in fact no volcanic rock wehre the lake is. The entire area where teh bulge and the quakes are is within the caldera. Which suggests that it should be covered with volcanic rock. However, if you notice, they are not where the rhyolite is. None of it is where the basalt is; it's as if the most recent and largest eruption didn't do basalt. Comments, anyone? I added some new links to newer technical papers about the caldera and its behavior to my site. (I also added a link to the Wikipedia article and fixed three links to one web site that moved.) Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone About 60 km down: I've seen some over-heated articles about the supervolcano erupting but it's a bit early to worry about that. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Jan 1 09:31:23 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jan 1 09:31:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <001501c96c36$c53ef0c0$4fbcd240$@com> It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt caldera. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it every five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of that stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, some ancient - shield volcano? I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be more confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before teh end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood basalt eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the crust itself if I never heard of it before. But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at all. This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to understand it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, hah, hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink of extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. Sometimes very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground under such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it does that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when they happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is building up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all means. The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a hole in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from under the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction consistent with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part of the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap formed by the previous eruption. Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated page on teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the web pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster eruptions every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the area. I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I thought people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some new technical papers that ought to include that information. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Jan 1 10:01:31 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Jan 1 10:01:03 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <495D04FB.3070501@verizon.net> Dora Smith wrote: > and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in India at the end of the Cretaceous, > but I keep thinking that a flood basalt eruption in North America must coincide with > the development of the crust itself if I never heard of it before. Hi, Do some searching on "Columbia River flood basalts." We have a fairly large igneous provice in our own Inland Pacific Northwest. From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 11:03:52 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 1 11:03:56 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: <00ad01c96ba4$be1fbf50$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <004301c96c1d$211f98a0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <495D04FB.3070501@verizon.net> Message-ID: <066d01c96c43$b05ea0d0$650fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Done. I added it to my web page. But you might want to take al ook at it. Because the situation is more complex. One thing I added is a paper that discusses teh full geological complexity of the region, and the maps make it pretty clear as well that teh basalt traps and the hot spot are separate processes. They just happen to have both crossed overlapping parts of the Snake River plain. The flood basalt was born of some rifting process. http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Dora Smith" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > Dora Smith wrote: > >> and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in India at the end of the > Cretaceous, >> but I keep thinking that a flood basalt eruption in North America must >> coincide with the development of the crust itself if I never heard of it >> before. > > > Hi, > > Do some searching on "Columbia River flood basalts." We have a fairly > large igneous provice in our own Inland Pacific Northwest. > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 1 15:59:37 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 1 15:58:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <001501c96c36$c53ef0c0$4fbcd240$@com> Message-ID: <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Or take a look at the Wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_supervolcano On Thursday, Jan 1, 2009, at 12:31 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: > It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt > caldera. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM > To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem > collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > > I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it > every > five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of > that > stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, > some > ancient - shield volcano? > > I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be > more > confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions > before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before > teh > end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption > in > India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood > basalt > eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the > crust > itself if I never heard of it before. > > But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at > all. > This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to > understand > it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, > hah, > hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus > phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the > Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink > of > extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. > Sometimes > very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground > under > such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it > does > that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that > travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. > But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history > when they > happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North > American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly > everyone > else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is > building > up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all > means. > The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not > our > time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a > hole > in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the > North > American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from > under > the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction > consistent > with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its > geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though > part of > the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap > formed by the previous eruption. > > Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. > http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated > page on > teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to > much > that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). > http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to > the web > pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, > and > some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. > > One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster > eruptions > every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more > normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the > area. > I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava > deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I > thought > people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to > some new > technical papers that ought to include that information. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Jan 1 18:01:01 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 1 18:01:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? Message-ID: Hi, Rockhounds List, A little catch-up note I've meant to post about something that happened this past year, that I thought would be of interest. Although this occurred back in October (Oct. 28), I only heard about it a few weeks ago when a story was posted about it on _www.geology.com_ (http://www.geology.com) . You can find the story on their website, or go directly to the main story posted online about this, on the weather.com website: _http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html_ (http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html) So, the strange occurrence, observed by many people, was a series of waves--advances and withdraws of water--in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, on the afternoon of Oct. 28. At low tide, water suddenly rushed in and filled the harbor, then withdrew and returned several times. It is stated that the water rose as much as 12 feet within 15 minutes, causing some damage in the harbor; if it had not occurred at low tide, serious flooding could have occurred. No one has any positive conclusion about the cause; no earthquakes were recorded in the area, and the possibility of a submarine landslide, as well as weather-related causes, has been considered. The weather.com story notes that a similar unexplained series of waves was reported in Maine (Bass Harbor) on Jan. 9, 1926, and in Dayton Beach FL in 1992; the Daytona waves were attributed to a storm system off the coast. Just thought you might like to hear about this--I know how people on the List like "strange unexplained geologic phenomena" stories. (Don't worry, lots of people have already blamed this on alien spacecraft.) best wishes to all for the New Year, Pete **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Alpen at aol.com Thu Jan 1 18:37:45 2009 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 1 18:37:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Jumars Message-ID: Kind of gives one some huge respect for those climbers of the "golden era" using prussic knots for ascending long pitches on things like the Eiger and the likes! :) THough once the rope ices up, Jumars are real scary. Glad you made it out of that tube safely. Eric In a message dated 1/1/2009 7:01:30 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Oh I bought some Jumars right after that for those of you who have done some climbing. BK **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 19:48:45 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 1 19:48:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Jumars In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had my fill of prussics pretty darned quick...heh BK On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 21:37, wrote: > > Kind of gives one some huge respect for those climbers of the "golden era" > using prussic knots for ascending long pitches on things like the Eiger and > the > likes! :) THough once the rope ices up, Jumars are real scary. Glad > you > made it out of that tube safely. > > Eric > > In a message dated 1/1/2009 7:01:30 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: > > Oh I bought some Jumars right after that for those of you who have done > some > climbing. > > BK > > > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 07:11:46 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 2 07:11:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Message-ID: < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal structure? BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 2 09:09:49 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:08:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> The story is also up at the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/ AR2009010101490.html?hpid=topnews On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:11 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > < > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ > 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >> > > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal > structure? > > BK > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:21:09 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:21:11 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? References: Message-ID: <006101c96cfe$81606140$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> It matters what caused it. Could have been a storm surge, and if it went up a narrow channel of some sort the effect might have been amplified. There was a case, I think in the northwest, where a tsunami of some sort got into a narrow bay and created all sorts of weird and greatly exaggerated effects. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? > Hi, Rockhounds List, > > A little catch-up note I've meant to post about something that happened > this > past year, that I thought would be of interest. Although this occurred > back > in October (Oct. 28), I only heard about it a few weeks ago when a story > was > posted about it on _www.geology.com_ (http://www.geology.com) . You can > find the story on their website, or go directly to the main story posted > online > about this, on the weather.com website: > > > _http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html_ > (http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html) > So, the strange occurrence, observed by many people, was a series of > waves--advances and withdraws of water--in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, on the > afternoon > of Oct. 28. At low tide, water suddenly rushed in and filled the harbor, > then withdrew and returned several times. It is stated that the water > rose as > much as 12 feet within 15 minutes, causing some damage in the harbor; if > it > had not occurred at low tide, serious flooding could have occurred. No > one has > any positive conclusion about the cause; no earthquakes were recorded in > the > area, and the possibility of a submarine landslide, as well as > weather-related causes, has been considered. The weather.com story notes > that a similar > unexplained series of waves was reported in Maine (Bass Harbor) on Jan. > 9, > 1926, and in Dayton Beach FL in 1992; the Daytona waves were attributed > to a > storm system off the coast. > Just thought you might like to hear about this--I know how people on the > List like "strange unexplained geologic phenomena" stories. (Don't worry, > lots > of people have already blamed this on alien spacecraft.) > best wishes to all for the New Year, > Pete > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:22:11 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:22:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <006501c96cfe$a6443270$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> OK, folks. I keep posting the link, and people keep posting all sorts of thigns that indicate they didn't look at it. At http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html, you will find that link and may others. Some of them recent and technical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > Or take a look at the Wiki article at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_supervolcano > > > > On Thursday, Jan 1, 2009, at 12:31 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: > >> It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt >> caldera. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM >> To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >> gem >> collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >> >> I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it >> every >> five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of that >> stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, >> some >> ancient - shield volcano? >> >> I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be >> more >> confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions >> before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before >> teh >> end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in >> India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood >> basalt >> eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the crust >> itself if I never heard of it before. >> >> But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at >> all. >> This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to >> understand >> it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, >> hah, >> hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus >> phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the >> Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink of >> extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. >> Sometimes >> very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground >> under >> such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it >> does >> that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that >> travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. >> But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when >> they >> happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North >> American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone >> else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is >> building >> up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all >> means. >> The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our >> time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a >> hole >> in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North >> American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from >> under >> the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction >> consistent >> with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its >> geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part >> of >> the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap >> formed by the previous eruption. >> >> Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated page >> on >> teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much >> that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the >> web >> pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and >> some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. >> >> One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster >> eruptions >> every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more >> normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the >> area. >> I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava >> deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I >> thought >> people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some >> new >> technical papers that ought to include that information. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 2 09:33:09 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:33:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000101c96d00$2f6beec0$8e43cc40$@com> There is a very detailed account of the theory at http://www.sott.net/articles/show/164753-Stone-Age-comet-destroys-North-Amer ica-Clovis-Comet-at-Pecos-Archeological-Conference -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:10 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA The story is also up at the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/ AR2009010101490.html?hpid=topnews On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:11 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > < > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ > 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >> > > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal > structure? > > BK > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 09:34:09 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:34:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001501c96c36$c53ef0c0$4fbcd240$@com> <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901020934k3fbeedbcob00c386e3979455a@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! I'm just an armchair seeker of knowledge, and therefore rely upon those (Y'all, I hope! *grin!*) who actually HAVE some expertise in these matters. However, after searching "Yellowstone Lake snowpack average" I got this page: Development and comparison of Landsat radiometric and snowpack model inversion techniques for estimating geothermal heat flux. I've barely begun wading through this, and aside from my barely dilettante level research in High School Ecology class, I've had no formal training in these matters. So, I hope that this might be of interest to someone out there. If it leads to any epiphanies, please let me know! *grin!* I've been following this story with much interest for several weeks now, and have noticed that most news accounts show a "Doom & Gloom" attitude, with the SUPER-Volcano designation (?) bandied about for dramatic effect. For the NightOwls out there, Coast to Coast AM spent several moments during their annual "prediction" show discussing the dreadful consequences of an eruption of this magmitic (migmatic? magnetic? millefiore? ... Whatever! *grin!*) feature, ending (thankfully!) with the note that "major eruptions" of the Yellowstone Caldera were "infrequent." They did note (with barely disguised glee) that such an event would likely "change the world!" Oh, really, ya' think so? *lol* Be Well, y'all! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Or take a look at the Wiki article at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_supervolcano > > > > > On Thursday, Jan 1, 2009, at 12:31 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: > > It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt >> caldera. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM >> To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >> gem >> collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >> >> I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it every >> five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of that >> stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, >> some >> ancient - shield volcano? >> >> I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be >> more >> confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions >> before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before teh >> end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in >> India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood >> basalt >> eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the crust >> itself if I never heard of it before. >> >> But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at >> all. >> This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to understand >> it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, hah, >> hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus >> phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the >> Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink of >> extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. >> Sometimes >> very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground >> under >> such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it does >> that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that >> travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. >> But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when >> they >> happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North >> American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone >> else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is >> building >> up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all >> means. >> The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our >> time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a hole >> in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North >> American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from under >> the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction >> consistent >> with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its >> geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part >> of >> the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap >> formed by the previous eruption. >> >> Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated page >> on >> teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much >> that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the >> web >> pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and >> some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. >> >> One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster eruptions >> every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more >> normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the area. >> I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava >> deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I thought >> people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some >> new >> technical papers that ought to include that information. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 2 09:40:24 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:40:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <006501c96cfe$a6443270$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <006501c96cfe$a6443270$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <000201c96d01$35c90090$a15b01b0$@com> I did look at it. You said "I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America". It did happen, at McDermitt, NV/OR, which is where current thinking has as the origination of the Yellowstone "hotspot". There was no mention of the McDermitt caldera on the page. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:22 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone OK, folks. I keep posting the link, and people keep posting all sorts of thigns that indicate they didn't look at it. At http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html, you will find that link and may others. Some of them recent and technical. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > Or take a look at the Wiki article at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_supervolcano > > > > On Thursday, Jan 1, 2009, at 12:31 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: > >> It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt >> caldera. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith >> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM >> To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >> gem >> collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >> >> I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it >> every >> five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of that >> stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, >> some >> ancient - shield volcano? >> >> I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be >> more >> confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions >> before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before >> teh >> end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in >> India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood >> basalt >> eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the crust >> itself if I never heard of it before. >> >> But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at >> all. >> This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to >> understand >> it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, >> hah, >> hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus >> phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the >> Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink of >> extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. >> Sometimes >> very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground >> under >> such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it >> does >> that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that >> travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. >> But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when >> they >> happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North >> American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone >> else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is >> building >> up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all >> means. >> The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our >> time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a >> hole >> in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North >> American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from >> under >> the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction >> consistent >> with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its >> geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part >> of >> the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap >> formed by the previous eruption. >> >> Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated page >> on >> teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much >> that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). >> http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the >> web >> pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and >> some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. >> >> One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster >> eruptions >> every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more >> normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the >> area. >> I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava >> deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I >> thought >> people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some >> new >> technical papers that ought to include that information. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:42:48 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:42:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: Message-ID: <008601c96d01$87875d00$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge that had held it back melted. The massive influx of cold fresh water shut down the currents in the North Atlantic that moderate climate and caused the ice age to return. Something similar may have occurred when glaciers in the northern Atlantic melted during the medieval warm period, which may have helped lead to the little ice age. Seems that a change in air currents over the Pacific, the southwestern U.S., and the northern Atlantic led to one development which was limited to the northern Atlantic and Europe, with no significant climate change elsewhere, and fluctuations in solar activity may have contributed to the latter. It does often happen in geology that more than one thing contributes to a climatological event or mass extinction, as for instance the Deccan Trap eruptions and meteor strike that ended the Cretaceous. It is recognized that whatever caused it, the return of the ice age was especially severe in North America, apparently more severe than the rest of that ice age. It turned the southeastern U.S. into a desert, and caused plant and animal species, including kinds of trees, to go extinct all over the North American continent. Humans must have lived in the southeastern U.S. as the genetic and archeological record demonstrate that they got there from Europe by crossing the Atlantic when it froze during the winter, but those people or what remained of them were driven westward and now their genetic signature is found in the central and western U.S. I'll be watching to see what you all decide about those hexagonal diamonds; that is a critical point. The article itself lacks internal logic, never mind an understanding of science. First meteors caused the cooling, then we have a discussion that it is accepted that melting ice pouring into the north atlantic caused it. First we have diamonds encased in carbon, and then suddenly it's hexagonal diamonds. I'd start with checking to see if the researchers themselves actually make that claim. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal structure? BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 2 09:45:32 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:45:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? In-Reply-To: <006101c96cfe$81606140$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <006101c96cfe$81606140$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <000301c96d01$e9588fe0$bc09afa0$@com> The study showed that embayments did not exaggerate, but defocused (i.e., dissipated) the tsunami run-up during historical earthquake-generated tsunami events. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:21 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? It matters what caused it. Could have been a storm surge, and if it went up a narrow channel of some sort the effect might have been amplified. There was a case, I think in the northwest, where a tsunami of some sort got into a narrow bay and created all sorts of weird and greatly exaggerated effects. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Maine tsunami? > Hi, Rockhounds List, > > A little catch-up note I've meant to post about something that happened > this > past year, that I thought would be of interest. Although this occurred > back > in October (Oct. 28), I only heard about it a few weeks ago when a story > was > posted about it on _www.geology.com_ (http://www.geology.com) . You can > find the story on their website, or go directly to the main story posted > online > about this, on the weather.com website: > > > _http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html_ > (http://www.weather.com/blog/weather/8_17899.html) > So, the strange occurrence, observed by many people, was a series of > waves--advances and withdraws of water--in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, on the > afternoon > of Oct. 28. At low tide, water suddenly rushed in and filled the harbor, > then withdrew and returned several times. It is stated that the water > rose as > much as 12 feet within 15 minutes, causing some damage in the harbor; if > it > had not occurred at low tide, serious flooding could have occurred. No > one has > any positive conclusion about the cause; no earthquakes were recorded in > the > area, and the possibility of a submarine landslide, as well as > weather-related causes, has been considered. The weather.com story notes > that a similar > unexplained series of waves was reported in Maine (Bass Harbor) on Jan. > 9, > 1926, and in Dayton Beach FL in 1992; the Daytona waves were attributed > to a > storm system off the coast. > Just thought you might like to hear about this--I know how people on the > List like "strange unexplained geologic phenomena" stories. (Don't worry, > lots > of people have already blamed this on alien spacecraft.) > best wishes to all for the New Year, > Pete > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:48:39 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:48:41 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008a01c96d02$590ee3c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Dora the Explorer is familiar with arguments on the dinosaur and related lists on what wiped out the dinosaurs. If a meteor impact altered the climate, it should have left more of a signature than microscopic strange looking diamonds. There are a number of particular minerals, I think some of them radioactive, that are left behind by such an impact. The tricky part is that many or most of them are also left by monster volcanoes, and especially if, as at the end of the Cretaceous, you have evidence that both kinds of events happened it can be hard to figure out what really did happen. I'm not right up on what those minerals are, and don't believe it ever occurred to me to put it on Dora the Explorer's catastrophe pages. But a little research would turn them up. I also question if such an event would not have had some kind of perceptible center of distribution, especially if the diamond particles are only found across the U.S. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA > The story is also up at the Washington Post > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/ > AR2009010101490.html?hpid=topnews > > > On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:11 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> < >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ >> 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >>> >> >> I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal >> structure? >> >> BK >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 09:58:45 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:58:49 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone References: <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <006501c96cfe$a6443270$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <000201c96d01$35c90090$a15b01b0$@com> Message-ID: <009001c96d03$c2a4cec0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> When what happened, Tim? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "'Dora Smith'" ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:40 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >I did look at it. You said "I've no idea when such a thing happened in >North > America". It did happen, at McDermitt, NV/OR, which is where current > thinking has as the origination of the Yellowstone "hotspot". There was no > mention of the McDermitt caldera on the page. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:22 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > > OK, folks. I keep posting the link, and people keep posting all sorts of > thigns that indicate they didn't look at it. > > At http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html, you will find that link > and > > may others. Some of them recent and technical. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock > > and gem collectors" > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone > > >> Or take a look at the Wiki article at >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_supervolcano >> >> >> >> On Thursday, Jan 1, 2009, at 12:31 America/Detroit, Tim Fisher wrote: >> >>> It has happened many times with the same hotspot. Google McDermitt >>> caldera. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >>> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith >>> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 6:28 AM >>> To: J Bryan Kramer; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >>> gem >>> collectors >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone >>> >>> I'm the original not expert. I learn something totally new about it >>> every >>> five minutes. I did learn in teh course of reading through some of >>> that >>> stuff that apparently the basalt flows predate the hot spot eruptions, >>> some >>> ancient - shield volcano? >>> >>> I've no idea when such a thing happened in North America. And to be >>> more >>> confusing I got the impression that there were more ordinary eruptions >>> before that happened. Not Earth didn't have an entire history before >>> teh >>> end-Permian extinction, and there was a smaller flood basalt eruption in >>> India at the end of the Cretaceous, but I keep thinking that a flood >>> basalt >>> eruption in North America must coincide with the development of the >>> crust >>> itself if I never heard of it before. >>> >>> But it sounds like you're not familiar with the Yellowstone caldera at >>> all. >>> This is a very different type of volcano, and they only came to >>> understand >>> it since I graduated from college 30 years ago. VERY recent. Hah, >>> hah, >>> hah. Santorini, the volcano that may be associated with the Exodus >>> phonemena, was of this sort, and so was the eruption of Toba in the >>> Phillippines 75,000 years ago that brought the human race to the brink >>> of >>> extinction. Not a flood basalt, but the next biggest monster. >>> Sometimes >>> very thick magma builds up in a huge, abscess-like crater underground >>> under >>> such conditions that it can't easily erupt to the surface. When it >>> does >>> that's a problem enough - you get pyroclastic flows and ash clouds that >>> travel some little distance. Like in Pompeii, and Mt. St. Helen's. >>> But large caldera volcanoes erupt rarely and alter Earth's history when >>> they >>> happen. If Yellowstone blew it would kill all life on half the North >>> American continent and the climate changes would starve nearly everyone >>> else on the planet. Problem is it's due to blow and pressure is >>> building >>> up, and noone knows how much pressure has to build up or what it all >>> means. >>> The cycle of that volcano is in hundreds of thousands of years - not our >>> time scale. Confusing the issue is that the volcano is caused by a >>> hole >>> in the Earth's crust that moves over time, relative to I think the North >>> American plate. Unfortunately it hasn't at this time moved out from >>> under >>> the last caldera, but it does appear to have moved in a direction >>> consistent >>> with its previous movement. If the volcano significantly changed its >>> geology it could conceivably begin to erupt less violently. Though part >>> of >>> the violence is due to the nature of the magma rather than the hard cap >>> formed by the previous eruption. >>> >>> Several years ago I got interested and put together a web page. >>> http://www.tiggernut24.com/catastrophes.html There's an associated >>> page > >>> on >>> teh geology of Sumatra and subduction faults that isn't relevant to much >>> that goes on in North America (except in teh Cascades). >>> http://www.tiggernut24.com/earthquake.html I begin with a link to the >>> web >>> pages of a PBS special a few years ago. And the Wikipedia article, and >>> some general geology of hot spots and caldera volcanos. >>> >>> One thing that complicates the issue is that between the monster >>> eruptions >>> every 600,000 to 700,000 years, Yellowstone does have smaller and more >>> normal eruptions, and these have left more routine lava flows in the >>> area. >>> I'm not yet up on what kinds of volcano flows leave what kinds of lava >>> deposits, and it's very relevant to understanding Yellowstone. I >>> thought >>> people here would know that. On my web site I also have links to some >>> new >>> technical papers that ought to include that information. >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 10:00:11 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 10:00:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: Message-ID: <009401c96d03$f523e6b0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> The article itself is available at http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;323/5910/94 - for a fee. I'm not paying it. Teh abstract is there, adn also the locations of the study's authors. It looks as if the geologist is a paid consultant. The abstract mentions two kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology is a little more technical than six-sided diamonds. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal structure? BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 10:05:12 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Fri Jan 2 10:05:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: Message-ID: <009d01c96d04$a8775760$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Here's more detail posted to a global warming list If I understand correctly on a fast glance, they did find iridium, one of the minerals I was referring to, which strengthens the case. I'd look for an earthbound volcano first, however. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years-ago Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal structure? BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 2 10:45:08 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 2 10:45:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <008601c96d01$87875d00$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <008601c96d01$87875d00$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <000a01c96d0a$3d127490$b7375db0$@com> There was a very critical report about the theory that was briefly mentioned on a Discovery Channel program recently. The author questioned the "hexagonal diamond" theory and essentially called it hocus pocus. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:43 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge that had held it back melted. The massive influx of cold fresh water shut down the currents in the North Atlantic that moderate climate and caused the ice age to return. Something similar may have occurred when glaciers in the northern Atlantic melted during the medieval warm period, which may have helped lead to the little ice age. Seems that a change in air currents over the Pacific, the southwestern U.S., and the northern Atlantic led to one development which was limited to the northern Atlantic and Europe, with no significant climate change elsewhere, and fluctuations in solar activity may have contributed to the latter. It does often happen in geology that more than one thing contributes to a climatological event or mass extinction, as for instance the Deccan Trap eruptions and meteor strike that ended the Cretaceous. It is recognized that whatever caused it, the return of the ice age was especially severe in North America, apparently more severe than the rest of that ice age. It turned the southeastern U.S. into a desert, and caused plant and animal species, including kinds of trees, to go extinct all over the North American continent. Humans must have lived in the southeastern U.S. as the genetic and archeological record demonstrate that they got there from Europe by crossing the Atlantic when it froze during the winter, but those people or what remained of them were driven westward and now their genetic signature is found in the central and western U.S. I'll be watching to see what you all decide about those hexagonal diamonds; that is a critical point. The article itself lacks internal logic, never mind an understanding of science. First meteors caused the cooling, then we have a discussion that it is accepted that melting ice pouring into the north atlantic caused it. First we have diamonds encased in carbon, and then suddenly it's hexagonal diamonds. I'd start with checking to see if the researchers themselves actually make that claim. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc =rss&pagewanted=all > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal structure? BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 2 10:48:37 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jan 2 10:48:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <008a01c96d02$590ee3c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <008a01c96d02$590ee3c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <000c01c96d0a$b8e7f680$2ab7e380$@com> Shocked quartz, tektites, an impact crater, and irridum were all mentioned as elements of a meteor strike that are missing from the 12,900 BP extinctions. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:49 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Dora the Explorer is familiar with arguments on the dinosaur and related lists on what wiped out the dinosaurs. If a meteor impact altered the climate, it should have left more of a signature than microscopic strange looking diamonds. There are a number of particular minerals, I think some of them radioactive, that are left behind by such an impact. The tricky part is that many or most of them are also left by monster volcanoes, and especially if, as at the end of the Cretaceous, you have evidence that both kinds of events happened it can be hard to figure out what really did happen. I'm not right up on what those minerals are, and don't believe it ever occurred to me to put it on Dora the Explorer's catastrophe pages. But a little research would turn them up. I also question if such an event would not have had some kind of perceptible center of distribution, especially if the diamond particles are only found across the U.S. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA > The story is also up at the Washington Post > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/ > AR2009010101490.html?hpid=topnews > > > On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 10:11 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> < >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ >> 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >>> >> >> I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal >> structure? >> >> BK >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 11:35:41 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 2 11:35:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Something going on in Yellowstone In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901020934k3fbeedbcob00c386e3979455a@mail.gmail.com> References: <001501c96c36$c53ef0c0$4fbcd240$@com> <3F1570DC-D860-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <831c9ad10901020934k3fbeedbcob00c386e3979455a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Doom and gloom sell newspapers, they even have a saying in the newsroom: "Blood leads" meaning any violent story ends up on the front page (so long as it agrees with the editor's political bent) BK I've been following this story with much interest for several weeks now, and > have noticed that most news accounts show a "Doom & Gloom" attitude, --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 2 12:31:47 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 2 12:30:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <009d01c96d04$a8775760$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <60892E74-D90C-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Iridium from volcano's is fairly rare, with only a very few known examples. Iridium from comets and meteorites is fairly common. Microdiamonds are related to almost every space based impact event. I doubt you will find a volcano behind this event. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 13:05 America/Detroit, Dora Smith wrote: > Here's more detail posted to a global warming list > > If I understand correctly on a fast glance, they did find iridium, one > of the minerals I was referring to, which strengthens the case. > > I'd look for an earthbound volcano first, however. > > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years- > ago > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA > > > < > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ > 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >> > > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal > structure? > > BK > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jan 2 13:05:05 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (donhalterman@verizon.net) Date: Fri Jan 2 13:05:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Message-ID: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> > The abstract mentions two > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology is a little > more technical than six-sided diamonds. Hi, Unfortunately I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the following might help (or maybe not...) A hexagon is a 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! Take a look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These form on earth as well. I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least it should be a fun fact. Best, Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Fri Jan 2 15:03:23 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Fri Jan 2 15:03:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: I think the reference is to a diamond-like mineral with a hexagonal atomic structure, not a hexagon-shaped diamond. Normal diamond crystallizes in the isometric (cubic) symmetry system. Look up lonsdaleite in a mineral reference book; it's the analog for diamond in the hexagonal symmetry system. Since graphite, diamond, and lonsdaleite are pure carbon, they can be considered structures formed from spheres (atoms) of one size only. There are two different ways to put together spheres as densely as possible (i.e. with as little open space among the atoms as possible); these are referred to as "closest packing" structures. Diamond structure has one form - cubic closest packing - and lonsdaleite has the other - hexagonal closest packing. Graphite has a lot of open space - it is not a close-packed structure. Dana's System Volume 8 mentions that lonsdaleite is often associated with diamonds and with meteorites or impact sites, and is generally microscopic. I think this is what is being referred to as "hexagonal diamonds". Pete Richards On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:05 PM, donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > > > > > > > The abstract mentions two > > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology > is a little > > more technical than six-sided diamonds. > > > Hi, > > Unfortunately > I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some > posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the > following might help (or maybe not...) > > A hexagon is a > 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other > hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! Take a > look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a > cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list > member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These > form on earth as well. > > I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least > it should be a fun fact. > > Best, > Don > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 15:16:59 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 2 15:17:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: That's interesting, wiki has a page on it: But that drawing of the crystal structure does not look like hexagonal close packing to me. It looks more like some deformed cubic structure. Mindat calls it Dihexagonal Dipyramidal, which as a chemist is greek to me. BK On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 18:03, R. Peter Richards wrote: > I think the reference is to a diamond-like mineral with a hexagonal atomic > structure, not a hexagon-shaped diamond. Normal diamond crystallizes in the > isometric (cubic) symmetry system. Look up lonsdaleite in a mineral > reference book; it's the analog for diamond in the hexagonal symmetry > system. > > Since graphite, diamond, and lonsdaleite are pure carbon, they can be > considered structures formed from spheres (atoms) of one size only. There > are two different ways to put together spheres as densely as possible (i.e. > with as little open space among the atoms as possible); these are referred > to as "closest packing" structures. Diamond structure has one form - cubic > closest packing - and lonsdaleite has the other - hexagonal closest packing. > Graphite has a lot of open space - it is not a close-packed structure. > > Dana's System Volume 8 mentions that lonsdaleite is often associated with > diamonds and with meteorites or impact sites, and is generally microscopic. > > I think this is what is being referred to as "hexagonal diamonds". > > Pete Richards > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:05 PM, donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> > The abstract mentions two >> > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology is a >> little >> > more technical than six-sided diamonds. >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Unfortunately >> I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some >> posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the >> following might help (or maybe not...) >> >> A hexagon is a >> 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other >> hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! Take a >> look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a >> cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list >> member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These >> form on earth as well. >> >> I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least it >> should be a fun fact. >> >> Best, >> Don >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> text/html (html body -- converted) >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Fri Jan 2 16:40:58 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Fri Jan 2 16:41:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: Dihexagonal dipyramidal is the name of the symmetry class within the hexagonal symmetry system. It simply defines all the symmetry elements (axes of rotation, planes of mirror symmetry, etc) possessed by minerals with structures that fall within that symmetry class (of which there are 32, and only 32). I cannot comment authoratitively on the claim in wikipedia that lonsdaleite forms by a distortion of a graphite structure, but I have my doubts. Graphite has carbon bonds only in the planes parallel to its sheets, and much weaker bonds in between; diamond and lonsdaleite have carbon-carbon bonds in three dimensions. Something profound would have to be undone and done up again to turn graphite into lonsdaleite (maybe that's what Superman really did...) This is analogous (though maybe somewhat crudely) to the difference between mica, with sheets of linked silicate tetrahedra, and quartz, with a 3-D network of linked silicate tetrahedra. The similarity in properties is not coincidental. The structure shown in the Wiki article does not look close-packed because the atoms are shown essentially as points, not at their effective sizes in the structure. To get really technical, the difference between the cubic and hexagonal closest packed structures is that, if you form layers of spheres (pennies work OK for this analogy), once you lay our the first layer, with all the spheres (pennies) touching each other, the place for the next layer to go (to be closest-packed) is over the triangular holes between the first-layer spheres or pennies. There are two choices; you can choose one or the other. Which ever one you choose, it's called choice B. B because the orientation of the first layer is called A; this does not matter now but it will later. So now we get to build the third layer. We can either choose the holes in the second layer (B) that are right under the centers of the atoms in layer A, or we can choose the as-yet unused position C. Then we repeat this layering gazillions of times to build a crystal. The first alternative has the layer sequence ABABABABAB... The second has the sequence ABCABCABCABCABC... The first creates a hexagonal closest-packed structure, the second creates a cubic closest-packed structure. These layers are laid up perpendicular to the c-axis of a hexagonal mineral, or parallel to the body diagonal, the [111] axis, of an isometric mineral. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close- packing_of_spheres. Several interesting points arise from this... 1. How does a growing crystal "remember" what sequence it is using to build itself? A closest-packed structure cannot repeat a particular layer twice in a row, i.e. AAABBBABBAA is not closest- packed, but why don't we get ABABCBCABCBACABABCA or other comparable garbage? 2. It must be really destructive (in terms of disturbing strong chemical bonds) to try to change an ABABABAB layering sequence into an ABCABCABC layering sequence. How can this happen? Does it ever happen? Is this part of the reason that diamond can get shot up from the depths of the earth and not get changed in to graphite? There's even more, but by now most everybody is looking at another message or something.... Happy New Year, Pete Richards On Jan 2, 2009, at 6:16 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > That's interesting, wiki has a page on it: > > > > But that drawing of the crystal structure does not look like > hexagonal close > packing to me. It looks more like some deformed cubic structure. > Mindat > calls it Dihexagonal Dipyramidal, which as a chemist is greek to me. > > BK > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 18:03, R. Peter Richards > wrote: > >> I think the reference is to a diamond-like mineral with a >> hexagonal atomic >> structure, not a hexagon-shaped diamond. Normal diamond >> crystallizes in the >> isometric (cubic) symmetry system. Look up lonsdaleite in a mineral >> reference book; it's the analog for diamond in the hexagonal symmetry >> system. >> >> Since graphite, diamond, and lonsdaleite are pure carbon, they can be >> considered structures formed from spheres (atoms) of one size >> only. There >> are two different ways to put together spheres as densely as >> possible (i.e. >> with as little open space among the atoms as possible); these are >> referred >> to as "closest packing" structures. Diamond structure has one >> form - cubic >> closest packing - and lonsdaleite has the other - hexagonal >> closest packing. >> Graphite has a lot of open space - it is not a close-packed >> structure. >> >> Dana's System Volume 8 mentions that lonsdaleite is often >> associated with >> diamonds and with meteorites or impact sites, and is generally >> microscopic. >> >> I think this is what is being referred to as "hexagonal diamonds". >> >> Pete Richards >> >> >> On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:05 PM, donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > The abstract mentions two >>> > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the >>> terminology is a >>> little >>> > more technical than six-sided diamonds. >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Unfortunately >>> I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some >>> posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the >>> following might help (or maybe not...) >>> >>> A hexagon is a >>> 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other >>> hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! >>> Take a >>> look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a >>> cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list >>> member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These >>> form on earth as well. >>> >>> I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least it >>> should be a fun fact. >>> >>> Best, >>> Don >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> text/html (html body -- converted) >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> ___________________________________ >> R. Peter Richards >> rpr@heidelberg.edu >> Morphological crystallographer >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Fri Jan 2 16:56:23 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Fri Jan 2 16:56:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Hexagonal" Diamond and other mineral structures, was: Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: We always push "Send" too soon... Two clarifications: I meant to say "once you lay ouT the first layer" but you probably figured that out. The other relates to the change from one carbon structure to the other - I started out talking about changing lonsdaleite into diamond, but wound up pondering the fact that diamonds survive the trip to the surface of the earth without being converted to graphite (in fact some are converted, apparently, but not all). The point is that all three structures are quite different, so changing one into another is a disruptive, or "reconstructive" phase change. This is in contrast, for example, to the change from high- temperature beta quartz to standard low-temperature alpha quartz, which only involves a kinking of the structure. This happens almost immediately when the right temperature is reached, and can be undone and done again just by appropriate heating and cooling. By contrast, the change from tridymite or crystobalite to quartz is reconstructive, and is slow to happen if it happens at all. As a consequence, we find crystals of tridymite and cristobalite at earth surface conditions with their structures basically intact, but quartz that started out as high quartz is invariably found as complexly twinned low quartz. There, now I'm done! Pete Richards On Jan 2, 2009, at 7:40 PM, R. Peter Richards wrote: ...snip... > > To get really technical, the difference between the cubic and > hexagonal closest packed structures is that, if you form layers of > spheres (pennies work OK for this analogy), once you lay our the > first layer.... ...snip again... > > 2. It must be really destructive (in terms of disturbing strong > chemical bonds) to try to change an ABABABAB layering sequence into > an ABCABCABC layering sequence. How can this happen? Does it ever > happen? Is this part of the reason that diamond can get shot up > from the depths of the earth and not get changed in to graphite? > ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 2 17:06:33 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 2 17:06:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Message-ID: Thanks for all that great stuff, Pete. I think that the AABBAABBAABBAABBAA that you recited below is the singing group in a currently popular musical comedy chick-flick movie. Also, ABADABADABADABADABADABADABA is what the monkey said to the chimp (anyone on the list of foreign extraction or under a certain age to have no familiarity with a very-many- decades-old silly popular song, may not be making any sense out of that, sorry!) : ) the other Pete In a message dated 1/2/2009 5:41:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rpr@heidelberg.edu writes: Dihexagonal dipyramidal is the name of the symmetry class within the hexagonal symmetry system...first alternative has the layer sequence ABABABABAB... The second has the sequence ABCABCABCABCABC... **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Jan 2 17:28:56 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Jan 2 17:28:57 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Evolutionary gems from Nature References: <29FD6B78-D8F0-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Here is an interesting pdf file that tells 15 concise stories of how evolution and natural selection work. It is from the prestigious scientific journal "Nature." http://www.nature.com/nature/newspdf/evolutiongems.pdf Alan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 2 18:43:49 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 2 18:42:40 2009 Subject: Sphere Packing {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <59B43DCC-D940-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, To answer your first question, I think the binding energy barrier is at a minimum when the layers are arranged in the right order. The surface is affected by the layer(s) below it, and the new layer of atoms goes into position easier when the atoms are in the right orientation. In the two examples given the layers are staggered o o o o o o o o o o o o o o There is another alternative where the layers are aligned o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o In this case the second layer can either stack on top of the existing layer (AAAAAA), or it can fill the gaps between the spheres (ABABABA). Admittedly, it is not as closely packed as the staggered layers, but it is a third alternative to sphere packing. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 19:40 America/Detroit, R. Peter Richards wrote: > Dihexagonal dipyramidal is the name of the symmetry class within the > hexagonal symmetry system. It simply defines all the symmetry > elements (axes of rotation, planes of mirror symmetry, etc) possessed > by minerals with structures that fall within that symmetry class (of > which there are 32, and only 32). I cannot comment authoratitively on > the claim in wikipedia that lonsdaleite forms by a distortion of a > graphite structure, but I have my doubts. Graphite has carbon bonds > only in the planes parallel to its sheets, and much weaker bonds in > between; diamond and lonsdaleite have carbon-carbon bonds in three > dimensions. Something profound would have to be undone and done up > again to turn graphite into lonsdaleite (maybe that's what Superman > really did...) This is analogous (though maybe somewhat crudely) to > the difference between mica, with sheets of linked silicate > tetrahedra, and quartz, with a 3-D network of linked silicate > tetrahedra. The similarity in properties is not coincidental. > > The structure shown in the Wiki article does not look close-packed > because the atoms are shown essentially as points, not at their > effective sizes in the structure. > > To get really technical, the difference between the cubic and > hexagonal closest packed structures is that, if you form layers of > spheres (pennies work OK for this analogy), once you lay our the first > layer, with all the spheres (pennies) touching each other, the place > for the next layer to go (to be closest-packed) is over the triangular > holes between the first-layer spheres or pennies. There are two > choices; you can choose one or the other. Which ever one you choose, > it's called choice B. B because the orientation of the first layer is > called A; this does not matter now but it will later. So now we get > to build the third layer. We can either choose the holes in the > second layer (B) that are right under the centers of the atoms in > layer A, or we can choose the as-yet unused position C. Then we > repeat this layering gazillions of times to build a crystal. The > first alternative has the layer sequence ABABABABAB... The second has > the sequence ABCABCABCABCABC... The first creates a hexagonal > closest-packed structure, the second creates a cubic closest-packed > structure. These layers are laid up perpendicular to the c-axis of a > hexagonal mineral, or parallel to the body diagonal, the [111] axis, > of an isometric mineral. See > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-packing_of_spheres. > > Several interesting points arise from this... > > 1. How does a growing crystal "remember" what sequence it is using to > build itself? A closest-packed structure cannot repeat a particular > layer twice in a row, i.e. AAABBBABBAA is not closest-packed, but why > don't we get ABABCBCABCBACABABCA or other comparable garbage? > > 2. It must be really destructive (in terms of disturbing strong > chemical bonds) to try to change an ABABABAB layering sequence into an > ABCABCABC layering sequence. How can this happen? Does it ever > happen? Is this part of the reason that diamond can get shot up from > the depths of the earth and not get changed in to graphite? > > There's even more, but by now most everybody is looking at another > message or something.... > > Happy New Year, > Pete Richards > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 6:16 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> That's interesting, wiki has a page on it: >> >> >> >> But that drawing of the crystal structure does not look like >> hexagonal close >> packing to me. It looks more like some deformed cubic structure. >> Mindat >> calls it Dihexagonal Dipyramidal, which as a chemist is greek to me. >> >> BK >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 18:03, R. Peter Richards >> wrote: >> >>> I think the reference is to a diamond-like mineral with a hexagonal >>> atomic >>> structure, not a hexagon-shaped diamond. Normal diamond >>> crystallizes in the >>> isometric (cubic) symmetry system. Look up lonsdaleite in a mineral >>> reference book; it's the analog for diamond in the hexagonal symmetry >>> system. >>> >>> Since graphite, diamond, and lonsdaleite are pure carbon, they can be >>> considered structures formed from spheres (atoms) of one size only. >>> There >>> are two different ways to put together spheres as densely as >>> possible (i.e. >>> with as little open space among the atoms as possible); these are >>> referred >>> to as "closest packing" structures. Diamond structure has one form >>> - cubic >>> closest packing - and lonsdaleite has the other - hexagonal closest >>> packing. >>> Graphite has a lot of open space - it is not a close-packed >>> structure. >>> >>> Dana's System Volume 8 mentions that lonsdaleite is often associated >>> with >>> diamonds and with meteorites or impact sites, and is generally >>> microscopic. >>> >>> I think this is what is being referred to as "hexagonal diamonds". >>> >>> Pete Richards >>> >>> >>> On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:05 PM, donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > The abstract mentions two >>>> > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology >>>> is a >>>> little >>>> > more technical than six-sided diamonds. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Unfortunately >>>> I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some >>>> posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the >>>> following might help (or maybe not...) >>>> >>>> A hexagon is a >>>> 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other >>>> hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! >>>> Take a >>>> look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a >>>> cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list >>>> member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These >>>> form on earth as well. >>>> >>>> I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least it >>>> should be a fun fact. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Don >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>> text/html (html body -- converted) >>>> --- >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>> >>> >>> ___________________________________ >>> R. Peter Richards >>> rpr@heidelberg.edu >>> Morphological crystallographer >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 19:00:59 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Fri Jan 2 19:01:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831c9ad10901021900r7c6c09edhdcb82ddbfe4219aa@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, Nathan! Thanks for the great field trip reports, and especially for the GREAT web pages on the Snowbird Mine! I'm still trying to pry my jaw off the floor after seeing the sheer size of that sceptered quartz crystal! I'd love to see some pics of the parisite crystals you mined, and especially the calcites from the Eureka. Being stuck in the Central Valley of California for 360 days last year, I only got in 3 days collecting, due to one of my periodic "total life remakes." Thankfully, 2009 looks like it will be a much better year for collecting. My first collecting day was to the Panoche Hills, west of New Idria and the Clear Creek BLM Management area. I've collected several sites in this area for over 20 years and find a plethora of cuttable materials here, including agates (plasma, banded, nodular "root beer" and many other types); agatized palm, reed and wood; jaspers of many colors and patterns; nephrite AND jadeite jades; howleite; ironstone; opal and opalites; serpentines; opalized shells; "reef" fossils; basalt cobbles; and the frequent "what the HECK is that?" One of my favorites from the area is 'satin spar', fibrous cutting grade seam gypsum. It's the perfect material for teaching hand cutting. Unlike many tutors of the lapidary arts, I prefer to start students on soft stones, with wet/dry sandpaper. This encourages them to "feel" the stone, rather than catering to the modern "need for speed." The speed that they experience when I allow them to saw their piece of 'spar' in preparation for sanding by hand gives them a realization of its 'butter' softness. Rather than ending up with a stone that demonstrates how much of a beginner they are and discouraging them, I try to make sure they learn that most basic lapidary skill: Patience! This results in a stone that looks like a "bragger," without costing them a fortune. But, I digress (as I usually do!) Back to collecting. With the closure of the Clear Creek area due to "asbestos danger" ("Oh dear, oh my!") my collecting will NOT include benetoite, fresnoite, or neptunite. Nor willl I be able prospect for the lovely jadeite and nephrite found for the last century in this area. Personally, I resent being treated like a child who cannot take sufficient precautions against a "suspected carcinogen." It seems that we should only be exposed to carcinogens when it's taxable, like filling our gas tanks. O.K., enough soapbox ... (putting it away ...) On to Trona! Without a doubt, one of my top 5 "most enjoyable" collecting experiences was this years Searles Valley Mineral Society Gem-O-Rama! Nestled in the arid wilderness, Trona is a dusty, sulfurous oasis between the bustling (yawn!) Metropolis of Ridgecrest(pop. 25,000) and Death Valley. The home of the Searles Valley Mineral Corp, Trona produces many different evaporate minerals in world class quantities. For the mineral collector who craves evaporates, Trona is THE place! Most, specifically, it's THE place one weekend out of the year! For over sixty-five years, rockhounds have come to Trona the second weekend of October to brave the smelly mud, flying crystals and stinking brine that are the trademarks of this great collecting event. 2008 was a great example of just how great collecting can be on Searles Lake. We (my partner Laura and myself) arrived late in the evening of October 11 at Motel 6 in Ridgecrest. We're both of the belief that, even when in a motel, "roughing it" is an essential part of any collecting trip! So, in the interest of economy, we settled for a queen bed, and cable TV. Eye rubbingly early the next morning, we lit out for Trona, and hopefully, something to eat. Note to all: Get up early, if you expect to eat before the first field trip. Arriving in Trona after a 30 minute drive, we found and stood in the appropriate lines. Welllllll ... I stood in line, while my paramour went "in search of" comfort facilities. Let me state right here, the Searles Valley folks do a bang up job, and put on one of the best "small town" shows I've seen. They also have what is the most impressive "clubhouse" I've ever seen! Still, the word for the smart collector is to get there eartly. There are great dealers, great club members who actually KNOW where things are, and to warn those with sensitive noses, an ever present sulfurous stink! Only when a stiff wind blows does the "rotton egg" odor abate. After standing in line to buy donuts, only to find the last were sold to the folks ahead of me, we were able to get a banana! (Blessings to the lovely club member who gave us her banana! Get there EARLY!) That, Pepsi and cornchips were our breakfast, while we waited for the "Mudpile" field trip to begin. One of the great pleasures of collecting at Trona is the brief drive from the show grounds. The "dry" lake bed is IN town ... or is it the other way around? Anywho, the organisation of the field trip is flawless, and within 5 minutes we arrived at the most impressive pile of stinking, sticky muck I've ever had the pleasure of getting my shoes stuck in. Found within these mudpiles are rare hanksite crystals, trona crystals, borates and other evaporates. Also to be found were throngs of people who were VERY serious about getting the best and biggest hanksites! Runnning around, getting stuck like ants in honey, were throngs of children of all ages, some of whom were making their first ever trip away from inner city L.A. The looks on the faces of those kids made me feel as young as they were, as they pulled out and washed off hanksites the size of soda cans and larger! There were troughs of lake brine for washing these crystals, which easily and quickly melt in any less than a saturate saline soloution. These quickly became elbow to elbow affairs, and I generally had at least one small child under each arm washing away as I smiled down on them. I seemed to be the least serious (or the most amused) collector there, and recieved many scornful looks as I chuckled and cracked jokes with harried parents. Of course, these scornfull looks came from small children, who knew I couldn't possibly appreciate the gravity of the situation! And, being friendly and marginally knowledgible, I soon had children approaching with the ever present question: "What's THIS one worth?" Being my first time for hanksite collecting, I made many "educated" guesses, hoping I wasn't too far wrong! No matter what my opinion was, the young digger would run off in search of "the BIG One!" Many of the smallest kids found crystals that dwarfed mine! Having filled the plastic file boxes we brought for hanksite (keep your hanksite moist, but not wet, until you can clean it completely) we left with the "last call." The drive back was short, and the food and hospitality at the Clubhouse were great! After a sandwich and soda, we joined the bull session in the field trip parking lot, and waited for the call to mount up! As always, the bull session was one of the best parts of collecting, and we made new friends from far places. John hailed from Minnesota, and entertained me with tales of gold propecting in Alaska and sapphires in Montana. A noisome throng appoached, students from the University of Arizona at Prescott. We traded collecting tales, and I showed them my "pet" Shaver Lake amethyst, which always goes propecting with me. The afternoon trip was the fabled "Blowhole" trip, of which details can be found at the linked "SLG&MS" site. It was truly impresive to watch the video at the clubhouse & see the explosives in use by the Navy Ordnance officers, and the crystals being pumped out of the ground. As luck would have it, the pumping that we'd seen as we passed the site that morning was the only we'd be seeing. As the drilling rig was working the last hole, the salt crust below gave way, and the whole rig tipped on its side! However, we, the eager collectors, were barely affected. Aside from looking wistfully toward the now "off limits" hole with drill rig waiting for a tow truck, we gave our attention to sorting through the tons of freshly pumped crystals. Again, as in the morning, the children were happy to have someone who'd give them an identity for their discoveries, and what discoveries they were! My own crystals paled before their glories, and I wished that I were 9 years old again. I made friends with a 9 year old named Mathew, and his somewhat frayed father, who was quite busy trying to herd 4 kids and still gather a few crystals for himself. Matthew had the sort of luck I can only wish for, showing up with handful after handful of rare top notch hanksite. The toppers were a fist (that is, MY fist!) sized, museum clean "root beer" brown hanksite and a very rare, 1/2" sulfo-halite. Now, my eyes nearly left my skull when I saw that hanksite, since the usual hanksite is green to amber colored, and clear. This one derived its color from the dreamy, creamy "cumulous cloud" clay inclusions that floated below its surface. When he asked the inevitible "How much?" I overcame temptation, and looked into his eyes. "Matthew," I slowly said, "I can't tell you." His small brow furrowed as I continued,"That crystal is so fine, if I were you, I'd never sell it." His Dad smiled and appreciated the moment. I'm sure that I'll see them again next year. Dad said I would! We quickly met up with several new friends whom we'd met at lunch, Nancy & Kim, from Illinois. Kim is a GIA Graduate Gemologist, who'd decided to come with her Mom to see what field collecting was all about! They asked sweetly if I'd help them to identify thier finds, and as always (especially for pretty ladies!) I said "Sure!" My darling Laura had invited them to sit with us, and found us 2 new friends! I was in my own glory, surrounded by young and old collectors, and gave the lions share of my attention to the collectors. Kim told us how she'd been a "nail artist" with a special love for gems, and had recieved her G.G. quite recently. When I said I'd love to do the same, she urged me on. "It's easier than you think!" We'll see! I did come away with my own "special" crystal. When they were leaving, Matthew and his Dad came over, and after Dad thanked me for my help, Matthew held out his hand, and gave me a perfect 1/2" twinned hanksite! That crystal now resides in my Favorites cabinet, smelling faintly of sulfur. After that we packed up, redolent of hydrogen sulfide and feeling salt chapped, with a constant breeze blowing our hair in our faces. While I was packing away our new treasures, Laura, Kim & Nancy wandered over to the edge of the collecting area, and out onto the adjoining salt. After getting the ok to dig in, they pried loose the foamy grey surface salt, and found enchanting "fairy towers" of dew deposited, snowy white salt "frost!" Now, these pieces aren't small or cabinet sized, they're HUGE! We have five, nestled carefully among dessicant packs in our garage, awaiting my attention. They'll soon make lovely additions to someones *very* dry living room! We had quite a time finding tubs to transport the still wet, fragile specimens 250 miles home. After returning to the motel and cleaning off the accumulated muck, we had a delicious dinner at one of Ridgecrest's fine Chinese buffets, then returned to watch "Stay Alive!" on cable. Bright and early the next morning, we slept through the alarm! So, instead of a liesurely breakfast, we hurried and made it to Trona in time for the "Brine Pond" collecting trip. This was the one we'd made the trip for! The world famous "Searles Lake Pink" halite would soon fill our hands, stinging them where blisters had developed in our search for "the Best." We met up with John at the Lake, and headed out eagerly onto the icy white halite surface crust. The only way to learn where the best halite (a truly subjective task!) lies is to break through that crust, a task which raised the aforementioned blisters. After finding a delightful array of crystal forms, and very little of the "Prime" Pink halite, we heard a shout, and saw Kim waving for our attention! She'd gotten some help from experienced hands, and had found a deep port wine colored brine pond, with several "shelves" of halite crystals. These varied in form, but all were a lovely pale to cranberry pink! The time passed too quickly, and our totes filled too fast! I quickly became used to the sting of the brine, and took over from Kim in clearing out the pond. As we'd been told, the halite grew in shelves, and the sharp crystals could definitely cut! Thankfully, the brine tanned my blisters a deep red and kept ANY infection away! John wanderd off, but Laura kept her focus, looking far and wide for great specimens that would become the delight of friends and customers alike. Meanwhile, Kim & Nancy had consulted with me on transport problems, wondering how they'd possibly get they're unexpectedly rich haul of crystals home safely. As it turns out, we later heard, they ended up adding an extra day to the trip to ship thier bounty home! Leaving the Lake was truly difficult, especially since we felt like we'd just found out what to look for. Kim & Nancy gave us hugs, and said fond goodbyes. Isn't it amazing how fast collecting friends become? Reluctantly, we carefully packed up for home, and started back across the salt. With a little foresight, I'd left some room in the totes, and had left a tote at the car. On our way back, we collected from abandoned holes, and had great luck. We filled every possible corner, and carefully packed for the trip home to Fresno. After slaking our thirst with Pepsi at the gas station conveniently located across from the Lake entrance, we wandered back to the show, where we joined many folks who'd come out for the dealers, and grinned at others who looked as salted and dusty as we. After a filing lunch of Polish Sausage & Frito Boats (the 6th & 7th food groups!) and missing our new friends already, we wandered amongst the now packing dealers, making connections and some shrewd deals, reluctant to call it a weekend. A tired but uneventful trip back found us planning to return in 2009, and discussing who we'd like to bring with us! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks again to all of the great folks we met, and all the great folks who will read this, and know just how we feel. Be Well, y'all! Kris Lapidary Specialties Fresno, California, U.S.A. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > Happy last Day of 2008! > The snow is falling here in Massachusetts again so its a good time to think > back to the collecting that I was able to do this past year. I was > fortunate enough to collect in CA, MT, KY, IN, OH, CT, NH, ME and MA this > year. Two trips really stand out as being extra special. > > A) The first was a trip last July to the Snowbird Mine near the > Montana/Idaho border that I made with Lanny Ream while I was out in Idaho > on > business. Although the Snowbird Mine was mined for fluorite it is arguably > the best locality in the US to collect decent sized crystals of > parisite-(Ce). It also happens to offer some of the most spectacular views > of any locality I have visited. The trip was made more interesting by the > fact that we had to shovel snow and clear some small trees off the forest > service road leading to the mine to get as close as possible to the mine > road. It was 12 July and we were clearly the first ones to drive in. I > enjoyed the trip so much that I went back again in August on my next trip > out there. I now just may have the best self-collected parisite-(Ce) > crystals of anyone in New England although Lanny and others more local to > the site certainly have better ones than those I found. I have a > powerpoint > presentation of pictures that I took up on my club's website for anyone who > is interested in seeing what the geology and scenery is like up there. The > URL is > http://www.bostonmineralclub.org/docs/2008-snowbird/page-01.htm > > B) The second trip was the Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip that I led to the > Eureka Mine in Marion, KY last October. This was without a doubt the most > successful collecting trip of the 5 times that I have been to Marion, KY > and > may well rank as the most successful BMC collecting trip ever. We devoted > four days of collecting to a fresh exposure of ledge that we paid to have > dug by a track hoe that Bill Frazer brought in for us. We also used > a gasoline-powered generator & electric pump to keep the water out of our > pit which was 6 feet below the level of Hurricane Creek just 3 feet away > and > used a 14" diamond blade saw to help work some of the pockets. It was wet > dirty work but the 15 people that attended this trip all went home very > satisfied with the results. > > On Monday, 13 October, we had our greatest surprise. I had run a saw cut > along the top of some hard ledge so that we could work our way down to some > of the exposed fluorite pockets below. Ed Norton began working the cut and > broke off a large chunk of of ledge that exposed what we now call the > "Lucky > 13" pocket. The first indication that this was no ordinary pocket was the > ~5" sharp, lustrous, doubly-terminated calcite floater that lay loose in > the > pocket (think Elmwood quality). Still attached to the wall was the entire > back of the pocket containing four other large calcite crystals. I > carefully ran multiple saw cuts around each edge of the pocket and Ed began > even more carefully working the perimeter cuts to try to extract the pocket > intact. After a lot of hard work he extracted a roughly 12" x 15" slab > with > 4 intact calcite crystals. Both Bill Frazer and a local geologist > indicated > that these are the finest calcite crystals ever collected from Crittenton > County. Bret Hume of Pittsburgh took home the calcite floater but Ed > Norton > got the pocket in our split of the specimens and he won first place for > best > fieldtrip specimen at the annual BMC specimen competition last November. > We > also worked numerous fluorite pockets and extracted a number of fantastic > specimens. My best fluorite specimen (a 6" fluorite cluster featuring one > 4" stepped cube crystal also took first place in the best self-collected > specimen from the current year. As great as it was to bring home some good > specimens, the best reward for me was the thrill of seeing the pockets > exposed and working with a good group of people to extract the crystals > from > them. > > While we were there we also did a night fluorescent dig at the Columbia > mine > and it too was also a success. I have a 5 gal bucket full of brightly > fluorescent rocks from this dig, including some with 4 colors on a single > specimen. This is wonderful fluorescent material and I encourage any of > you > who collect fluorescent minerals to consider a trip there. If you are > interested in either fluorite collecting or the fluorescent dig, contact > the > Ben Clement Mineral Museum in Marion KY to arrange a collecting trip for > your club. The fees from these trips help to keep this struggling museum > alive. > > On the way home my wife and I also did some geode collecting in Indiana and > some fossil collecting at a state park in Ohio. At the famous Harrodsburg > roadcut on state road 37 in Indiana we stopped so that I could climb up to > a > productive geode zone that I had worked last year. I spent about 30 > minutes > doing some hard work with hammer and chisel to free a 6" geode from the > hard > Indiana limestone. Meanwhile my wife looked around the base of the roadcut > and picked up a chunk of rock that had fallen off at some point in time. > The rock was rounded on one end and she brought it to me to see if it was a > geode. Well it was indeed a geode; a 6" geode with a crack already > started. It took only one hammer blow to split it open to expose a very > nice quartz crystal interior with a few nicely placed cream-colored > dolomite > crystals providing an aesthetic accent. I had worked hard for 30 minutes > to > get my geode and she picked hers up off the ground! By the way, her geode > won first place in the self-collected, non-New England category at the BMC > specimen competition. > > Well those are my storied from 2008. Please share yours as well!!! > > best wishes for a safe and happy 2009, > May all of your collecting trips be successful with your crystal specimens > terminated & gemmy! > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaszczak at mtu.edu Fri Jan 2 19:03:21 2009 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John Jaszczak) Date: Fri Jan 2 19:03:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] fun with mystery photo & KT Boundary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2033011929.2943341230951801885.JavaMail.root@shupac.merit.edu> New England Meteoritical Services has several KT Boundary specimens for sale at http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB2001dev/ktimpacta.htm John On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 15:14, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > Would anyone in the Group know of or have ideas on how to get a sample > > (preferably a core sample) of the KT Boundary? > > I've wondered that myself, I would like that too. Well what might not > be apparent from the images is that there's a flat area (bench) between > the levels of the roadcut. The K/T line is about 3-4' down from this > point, just a guess, I didn't measure, but when standing on the loose > hillside at about eye-level with the bench, the line was about at my > knee level. The bench is 10-15' deep I would guess... Wide enough for > elk to stroll along it, judging from the tracks in the snow, and the > droppings. > > So there's room up there to operate a gas-powered core drilling machine, > and it's not far down to paydirt either. I know that major core > drilling is done "off-grid", gas/diesel-powered, but how small a rig > exists for this purpose? Is there something 1-2 people could carry up > the hill? Can it be rented? :-) > > Also, talking with a geologist friend who reads core samples (among > other tasks) for a living, I learned that quite often there are missing > sections that just don't come to the surface intact because they are so > "incompetent". On the other hand, I know that the "Denver Basin > Project" a few years ago reported on long stretches of sand or pebbles, > so there must be some method for coring/reading loose material too. > > And I bet there are some readers here who can educate us about this. :-) > > On my previous visit years ago I think I brought a length of 3/4" > diameter copper tubing sharpened on one end, which I've used > successfully to core apples. :-) I played with exposing a flat surface > several inches up (above the lignite) and trying to get a core sample, > but of course without grinding through it, it was hopeless. The material > is brittle. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lpai at hotmail.com Fri Jan 2 20:49:51 2009 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Fri Jan 2 20:47:52 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: <2033011929.2943341230951801885.JavaMail.root@shupac.merit.edu> Message-ID: I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this has been discussed already... I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit from... I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful comments would be most appreciated... From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Fri Jan 2 21:08:23 2009 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Fri Jan 2 21:08:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service In-Reply-To: References: <2033011929.2943341230951801885.JavaMail.root@shupac.merit.edu> Message-ID: <21580E87D4FF46128A8DC11D380B88A4@WesLingerfelPC> I've used www.webmasters.com for many years without any complaints. Very solid group. Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Pai" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service >I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been discussed >before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this has been >discussed already... > > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted to > see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit from... > > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful > comments would be most appreciated... > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 22:33:38 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri Jan 2 22:33:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring Message-ID: <534379.87672.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Red Herring??? I have to disagree.? As one who is a part time researcher-- sampling glacial outwash planes in the northeastern US for glass microsphere deposits. I've kept abreast of this topic before it became a topic.? There is evidence mounting weekly that a major cometary impact occurred over north eastern North America approx. 12,900-13,100ybp. Strata of "black sand mats" containing glass microspheres, charcoal, nano-diamonds, and Buckyballs are bening located all over eastern North America: From caves in near both Cinncinatti and Sandusky Ohio over to the enigmatic? "Carolina Bays" features up and down the east coast.? Meteoric iron embedded in Mammoth Tusks and Bison horns from other times suggest large impacts occured several times earlier in the present ice age. ?Ice dam breaching? ( if that is what it was) apparently? occurred at several places along the icesheet front simultaneously. While it is true that massive meltwater runoff is likely to have changed ocean currents, an impact can account for causing that sudden melting. The present lack of identified impact crater is understandable given the true depth of the existing ice sheet(2miles?) is not known but, could have absorbed most or all of the impact whithout leaving easily located deposits of insitu impactites.? There is no primary strata left to analize--as of yet but many are working on it finding evidence in situ not just in outwash deposits. If we look at the rock called Ice and think of melting as erosion, it puts erosion on a accelerated timescale never seen before. Which has good and bad points for reconstructing the events.? Hardly a red herring but a mounting body of evidence which ties together the younger dryas anomomally, regional extinction of large ice age animals populations which never returned and, dissapearance of the Human Clovis culture in mid and northern North America for approximately 800 years. Eman --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Dora Smith wrote: Thanks.? The article is a red herring.???It has been satisfactorily demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge that had held it back melted.? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 05:51:32 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 3 05:51:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring In-Reply-To: <534379.87672.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <534379.87672.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: So where did all the carbon come from if this was a hit totally absorbed by the ice sheet. Would a carbonaceous chondrite not break up before impact? BK On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 01:33, Mr EMan wrote: > Red Herring? I have to disagree. As one who is a part time researcher-- > sampling glacial outwash planes in the northeastern US for glass microsphere > deposits. I've kept abreast of this topic before it became a topic. There > is evidence mounting weekly that a major cometary impact occurred over north > eastern North America approx. 12,900-13,100ybp. Strata of "black sand mats" > containing glass microspheres, charcoal, nano-diamonds, and > Buckyballs are bening located all over eastern North America: From > caves in near both Cinncinatti and Sandusky Ohio over to the enigmatic > "Carolina > Bays" features up and down the east coast. Meteoric iron embedded in > Mammoth Tusks and Bison horns from other times suggest large impacts occured > several times earlier in the present ice age. > > Ice dam breaching ( if that is what it was) apparently occurred at > several places along the icesheet front simultaneously. While it is true > that massive meltwater runoff is likely to have changed ocean currents, an > impact can account for causing that sudden melting. The present lack of > identified impact crater is understandable given the true depth of the > existing ice sheet(2miles?) is not known but, could have absorbed most or > all of the impact whithout leaving easily located deposits of insitu > impactites. There is no primary strata left to analize--as of yet but many > are working on it finding evidence in situ not just in outwash deposits. If > we look at the rock called Ice and think of melting as erosion, it puts > erosion on a accelerated timescale never seen before. Which has good and bad > points for reconstructing the events. > > Hardly a red herring but a mounting body of evidence which ties together > the younger dryas anomomally, regional extinction of large ice age animals > populations which never returned and, dissapearance of the Human Clovis > culture in mid and northern North America for approximately 800 years. > > Eman > > --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Dora Smith wrote: > Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily > demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive > outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge that > had held it back melted. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 05:53:33 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 3 05:53:36 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service In-Reply-To: References: <2033011929.2943341230951801885.JavaMail.root@shupac.merit.edu> Message-ID: I'm using GoDaddy, they are cheap and the couple times I called in for tech support they were very helpful. You will get an unending stream of 'special offers' in your email tho. BK On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 23:49, Lyle Pai wrote: > I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been discussed > before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this has been discussed > already... > > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted to see > if there are any experience out there that I could benefit from... > > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful > comments would be most appreciated... > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 06:34:09 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Jan 3 06:34:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service Message-ID: <658991.43988.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Lyle, For all its worth. My site is set up with go daddy.com if you care to view it: for minerals: http://www.hammerron.com/minerals home page: http://www.hammerron.com My recommendation is try and shop around and see what you find. The internet industry has so much out there. There might be certain things that you specifically need, such as a certain price range, storage size, data base, etc. Hopefully your responses here on the list will be helpful. regards, Ron ________________________________ From: Lyle Pai To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 2, 2009 11:49:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this has been discussed already... I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit from... I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful comments would be most appreciated... -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 06:52:51 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 3 06:52:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: <60892E74-D90C-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005a01c96db2$f3f907c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> I recall iridium specifically being associated with certain catastrophic volcanos that could be associated wtih extinction events. Such volcanos have both unusual force and unusual depth, and a few other forces that dont' happen with ordinary volcanos. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Dora Smith" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Iridium from volcano's is fairly rare, with only a very few known examples. Iridium from comets and meteorites is fairly common. Microdiamonds are related to almost every space based impact event. I doubt you will find a volcano behind this event. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 13:05 America/Detroit, Dora Smith wrote: > Here's more detail posted to a global warming list > > If I understand correctly on a fast glance, they did find iridium, one of > the minerals I was referring to, which strengthens the case. > > I'd look for an earthbound volcano first, however. > > http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years- ago > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA > > > < > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/ > 02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >> > > I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal > structure? > > BK > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 06:54:23 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 3 06:54:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <005e01c96db3$2aa8f820$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> OK, so lonsdaleite is hexagonal, and is similar to diamonds, but is not actually a diamond. Wonder who invented that six sided diamond notion - the authors, who seem flaky enough, or the media? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Peter Richards" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA >I think the reference is to a diamond-like mineral with a hexagonal atomic >structure, not a hexagon-shaped diamond. Normal diamond crystallizes in >the isometric (cubic) symmetry system. Look up lonsdaleite in a mineral >reference book; it's the analog for diamond in the hexagonal symmetry >system. > > Since graphite, diamond, and lonsdaleite are pure carbon, they can be > considered structures formed from spheres (atoms) of one size only. > There are two different ways to put together spheres as densely as > possible (i.e. with as little open space among the atoms as possible); > these are referred to as "closest packing" structures. Diamond structure > has one form - cubic closest packing - and lonsdaleite has the other - > hexagonal closest packing. Graphite has a lot of open space - it is not > a close-packed structure. > > Dana's System Volume 8 mentions that lonsdaleite is often associated with > diamonds and with meteorites or impact sites, and is generally > microscopic. > > I think this is what is being referred to as "hexagonal diamonds". > > Pete Richards > > > On Jan 2, 2009, at 4:05 PM, donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> > The abstract mentions two >> > kinds of diamond particles found, and I think the terminology is a >> little >> > more technical than six-sided diamonds. >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Unfortunately >> I don't have time to read these linked articles, but I've seen some >> posted references to "hexagonal diamonds," and I'm thinking the >> following might help (or maybe not...) >> >> A hexagon is a >> 2-dimensional figure, which is Greek for "six sides." On the other >> hand, a six-faced, equilateral, 3-dimensional solid is--a cube! Take a >> look at a cube and count the faces. The crystallographic name for a >> cube is a hexahedron. There are cubic diamonds; in fact, former list >> member John Betts sells cubic diamond crystals on his website. These >> form on earth as well. >> >> I don't know if that helps with the discussion here, but at least it >> should be a fun fact. >> >> Best, >> Don >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> text/html (html body -- converted) >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 06:58:17 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 3 06:58:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring References: <534379.87672.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006801c96db3$b637e5e0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Eman, the flow of ice into the North Atlantic would need to keep it up for longer than a day or two to change the North Atlantic currents so as to bring on an ice age. But I'd like to know more about the comet. Will look at the article someone posted when I get a chance. Can you suggest any more sources of information? Please not "What happened to the Clovis people". Those discussions usually come just this side of concluding that those people beamed up,and then there's always what WAS Clovis culture. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring Red Herring? I have to disagree. As one who is a part time researcher-- sampling glacial outwash planes in the northeastern US for glass microsphere deposits. I've kept abreast of this topic before it became a topic. There is evidence mounting weekly that a major cometary impact occurred over north eastern North America approx. 12,900-13,100ybp. Strata of "black sand mats" containing glass microspheres, charcoal, nano-diamonds, and Buckyballs are bening located all over eastern North America: From caves in near both Cinncinatti and Sandusky Ohio over to the enigmatic "Carolina Bays" features up and down the east coast. Meteoric iron embedded in Mammoth Tusks and Bison horns from other times suggest large impacts occured several times earlier in the present ice age. Ice dam breaching ( if that is what it was) apparently occurred at several places along the icesheet front simultaneously. While it is true that massive meltwater runoff is likely to have changed ocean currents, an impact can account for causing that sudden melting. The present lack of identified impact crater is understandable given the true depth of the existing ice sheet(2miles?) is not known but, could have absorbed most or all of the impact whithout leaving easily located deposits of insitu impactites. There is no primary strata left to analize--as of yet but many are working on it finding evidence in situ not just in outwash deposits. If we look at the rock called Ice and think of melting as erosion, it puts erosion on a accelerated timescale never seen before. Which has good and bad points for reconstructing the events. Hardly a red herring but a mounting body of evidence which ties together the younger dryas anomomally, regional extinction of large ice age animals populations which never returned and, dissapearance of the Human Clovis culture in mid and northern North America for approximately 800 years. Eman --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Dora Smith wrote: Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge that had held it back melted. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 3 06:58:38 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:02:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: <2033011929.2943341230951801885.JavaMail.root@shupac.merit.edu> Message-ID: <282BFD962DFE4640BC0EAA7F4FE146B5@LarryRush> Lyle: I have used Homestead for a long time. Their main advantage is that you do not have to know any HTML. They provide a "site-builder" with all elements provided. Not the cheapest one around, but very thorough in what they provide. They also give all domain name coordination, and tech support. You can try their site-builder free on a trial basis. But, then, I guess most hosting services provide all of these nowadays,anyway!! Luck......Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Pai" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service >I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been discussed >before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this has been >discussed already... > > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted to > see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit from... > > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful > comments would be most appreciated... > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 3 07:25:30 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:24:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From burning vegetation. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7808171.stm On Saturday, Jan 3, 2009, at 08:51 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > So where did all the carbon come from if this was a hit totally > absorbed by > the ice sheet. Would a carbonaceous chondrite not break up before > impact? > > BK > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 01:33, Mr EMan wrote: > >> Red Herring? I have to disagree. As one who is a part time >> researcher-- >> sampling glacial outwash planes in the northeastern US for glass >> microsphere >> deposits. I've kept abreast of this topic before it became a topic. >> There >> is evidence mounting weekly that a major cometary impact occurred >> over north >> eastern North America approx. 12,900-13,100ybp. Strata of "black sand >> mats" >> containing glass microspheres, charcoal, nano-diamonds, and >> Buckyballs are bening located all over eastern North America: From >> caves in near both Cinncinatti and Sandusky Ohio over to the enigmatic >> "Carolina >> Bays" features up and down the east coast. Meteoric iron embedded in >> Mammoth Tusks and Bison horns from other times suggest large impacts >> occured >> several times earlier in the present ice age. >> >> Ice dam breaching ( if that is what it was) apparently occurred at >> several places along the icesheet front simultaneously. While it is >> true >> that massive meltwater runoff is likely to have changed ocean >> currents, an >> impact can account for causing that sudden melting. The present lack >> of >> identified impact crater is understandable given the true depth of the >> existing ice sheet(2miles?) is not known but, could have absorbed >> most or >> all of the impact whithout leaving easily located deposits of insitu >> impactites. There is no primary strata left to analize--as of yet >> but many >> are working on it finding evidence in situ not just in outwash >> deposits. If >> we look at the rock called Ice and think of melting as erosion, it >> puts >> erosion on a accelerated timescale never seen before. Which has good >> and bad >> points for reconstructing the events. >> >> Hardly a red herring but a mounting body of evidence which ties >> together >> the younger dryas anomomally, regional extinction of large ice age >> animals >> populations which never returned and, dissapearance of the Human >> Clovis >> culture in mid and northern North America for approximately 800 years. >> >> Eman >> >> --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Dora Smith wrote: >> Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily >> demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive >> outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice >> bridge that >> had held it back melted. >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 07:34:12 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:34:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <005a01c96db2$f3f907c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <60892E74-D90C-11DD-8A5A-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <005a01c96db2$f3f907c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: Iridium has been found associated with certain volcanic ashes. The Hawaiian and the Antarctic volcanoes produce iridium enriched ashes as do others: Not that they are talking about ppt (part per trillion) enhancement of Ir but the KT layer is enhanced to 5-10 ppb (parts per billion) and one ppb equals 1000 ppt. The Antarctic enhancement are reported to be locally in the ppb range tho. But there are other markers in the KT event, diamond nanoparticles for one: Cubic diamonds in this case. The Columia flood basalt event does seem to be going on around the same time as the KT event so you have to wonder about that. BK On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 09:52, Dora Smith wrote: > I recall iridium specifically being associated with certain catastrophic > volcanos that could be associated wtih extinction events. Such volcanos > have both unusual force and unusual depth, and a few other forces that dont' > happen with ordinary volcanos. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Dora Smith" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA > > > Iridium from volcano's is fairly rare, with only a very few known > examples. Iridium from comets and meteorites is fairly common. > > Microdiamonds are related to almost every space based impact event. > > I doubt you will find a volcano behind this event. > > Kreigh > > > On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 13:05 America/Detroit, Dora Smith wrote: > > Here's more detail posted to a global warming list >> >> If I understand correctly on a fast glance, they did find iridium, one of >> the minerals I was referring to, which strengthens the case. >> >> I'd look for an earthbound volcano first, however. >> >> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years-ago >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:11 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA >> >> >> < >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all >> >>> >>> >> I never heard of hexagonal diamonds, isn't that graphite's crystal >> structure? >> >> BK >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lpai at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 07:41:23 2009 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:39:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: Message-ID: Thanks Kreigh for the advice. I will remember to prefix with 'OT' next time... and thanks to all the others who have given their advice as well... It's weird however because I can't seem to open some of the member websites including Larry Rush's, Ron Hammerron's, etc.... Wondering what you guys are selling that the Chinese government doesn't want the Chinese public to see... hahaha... I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the USof A later this month before I can open your websites... alternatively, I need to figure out a way to get around this 'Great Fire Wall' the government has set up here... One of the small inconveniences one has to live with in China, still... Thanks again to all, Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Lyle Pai" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > Lyle, > > This topic really should have been prefixed with 'OT:'. > > A dozen years ago I selected Concentric as my personal host. They are > now XO, but I have found no reason to change. They are not the > cheapest, but I have had no outages for my website, and their tools and > support have been outstanding. > > If you decide to select them, please tell them I made the > recommendation (as Tomaszewski.net). > > Kreigh > > > > On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 23:49 America/Detroit, Lyle Pai wrote: > > > I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been > > discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this > > has been discussed already... > > > > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted > > to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit > > from... > > > > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful > > comments would be most appreciated... > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 07:48:22 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:48:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA-No Red Herring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well no, that article suggests soot associated with the diamonds was caused by fires. Another part of that article doesn't seem to be very credible where that fellow says there is no known mechanism for breaking up a comet into widely scattered bits. What happened on Jupiter in 1994 seems to show otherwise: "From July 16 through July 22, 1994, pieces of an object designated as Comet P/Shoemaker-Levy 9 collided with Jupiter. This is the first collision of two solar system bodies ever to be observed, and the effects of the comet impacts on Jupiter's atmosphere have been simply spectacular and beyond expectations. Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 consisted of at least 21 discernible fragments with diameters estimated at up to 2 kilometers. " I'm I suspect most of us watched that and those fragments were very widely scattered over the surface of Jupiter. Of course Jupiter does have a much stronger gravity field. We could only wish that so called science journalists actually knew some science or could at least use Google to do some checking. BK On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 10:25, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > From burning vegetation. See > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7808171.stm > > > > On Saturday, Jan 3, 2009, at 08:51 America/Detroit, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > So where did all the carbon come from if this was a hit totally absorbed >> by >> the ice sheet. Would a carbonaceous chondrite not break up before impact? >> >> BK >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 01:33, Mr EMan wrote: >> >> Red Herring? I have to disagree. As one who is a part time >>> researcher-- >>> sampling glacial outwash planes in the northeastern US for glass >>> microsphere >>> deposits. I've kept abreast of this topic before it became a topic. >>> There >>> is evidence mounting weekly that a major cometary impact occurred over >>> north >>> eastern North America approx. 12,900-13,100ybp. Strata of "black sand >>> mats" >>> containing glass microspheres, charcoal, nano-diamonds, and >>> Buckyballs are bening located all over eastern North America: From >>> caves in near both Cinncinatti and Sandusky Ohio over to the enigmatic >>> "Carolina >>> Bays" features up and down the east coast. Meteoric iron embedded in >>> Mammoth Tusks and Bison horns from other times suggest large impacts >>> occured >>> several times earlier in the present ice age. >>> >>> Ice dam breaching ( if that is what it was) apparently occurred at >>> several places along the icesheet front simultaneously. While it is true >>> that massive meltwater runoff is likely to have changed ocean currents, >>> an >>> impact can account for causing that sudden melting. The present lack of >>> identified impact crater is understandable given the true depth of the >>> existing ice sheet(2miles?) is not known but, could have absorbed most or >>> all of the impact whithout leaving easily located deposits of insitu >>> impactites. There is no primary strata left to analize--as of yet but >>> many >>> are working on it finding evidence in situ not just in outwash deposits. >>> If >>> we look at the rock called Ice and think of melting as erosion, it puts >>> erosion on a accelerated timescale never seen before. Which has good and >>> bad >>> points for reconstructing the events. >>> >>> Hardly a red herring but a mounting body of evidence which ties together >>> the younger dryas anomomally, regional extinction of large ice age >>> animals >>> populations which never returned and, dissapearance of the Human Clovis >>> culture in mid and northern North America for approximately 800 years. >>> >>> Eman >>> >>> --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Dora Smith wrote: >>> Thanks. The article is a red herring. It has been satisfactorily >>> demonstrated that the abrupt cooling was the result of the massive >>> outpouring of melted ice into the northern Atlantic when an ice bridge >>> that >>> had held it back melted. >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly >> colored >> than the day." >> >> Vincent van Gogh >> J Bryan Kr?mer >> North Florida, USA >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 3 07:46:09 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:49:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: Message-ID: I can't imagine that my modest minerals are any competition to the vast number of Chinese merchants on the web. Maybe it's that complaint I made on New Year's Eve about the Sweet and Sour Pork at our favorite Chinese restaurant!! Larry Rush ============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Pai" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > Thanks Kreigh for the advice. I will remember to prefix with 'OT' next > time... > > and thanks to all the others who have given their advice as well... > > It's weird however because I can't seem to open some of the member > websites including Larry Rush's, Ron Hammerron's, etc.... Wondering what > you guys are selling that the Chinese government doesn't want the Chinese > public to see... hahaha... > > I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the USof A later this month > before I can open your websites... alternatively, I need to figure out a > way to get around this 'Great Fire Wall' the government has set up here... > One of the small inconveniences one has to live with in China, still... > > Thanks again to all, > > Lyle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Lyle Pai" > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 1:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > > >> Lyle, >> >> This topic really should have been prefixed with 'OT:'. >> >> A dozen years ago I selected Concentric as my personal host. They are >> now XO, but I have found no reason to change. They are not the >> cheapest, but I have had no outages for my website, and their tools and >> support have been outstanding. >> >> If you decide to select them, please tell them I made the >> recommendation (as Tomaszewski.net). >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 23:49 America/Detroit, Lyle Pai wrote: >> >> > I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been >> > discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this >> > has been discussed already... >> > >> > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted >> > to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit >> > from... >> > >> > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful >> > comments would be most appreciated... >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 3 07:51:14 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 3 07:54:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions References: Message-ID: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> It's that time of year again................ My New Year's Collecting Resolutions- 2009 Larry Rush ConnRoxMinerals.com 1.. I resolve not to lecture the DEP officer as to who REALLY owns the state land on which I was collecting . (Last year's fine- $70) 2.. I resolve to always check to be sure the toilet tissue is included in my collecting buckets. (Last year's result- soreness from oak leaves) 3.. In the event I again forget resolution #2, I resolve to always count the number of leaves on the tissue substitute. (Last year's result- ungodly itching, my doctor's humiliating laughter, and permanent notes in my medical records) 4.. I resolve to never again use motor oil as an emergency substitute for insect repellent. (Last year's result-a 2 week rash following 3 straight showers and Lysol soap) 5.. I resolve never to make the "one last" hammer trimming blow on a prized crystal specimen. (Last year's result- a worthless pile of fragments instead of First Prize in the club's show exhibit) 6.. I resolve to never again show my daughter that a senior citizen can still leap over a barbed wire fence while walking to the garnet mine (Last year's result- torn pants, ripped buttocks which she had to disinfect and bandage, and a source of scornful tales that will never end at family get-togethers) 7.. I resolve to pay closer attention to the road signs posted at the wood's edge near my favorite pegmatite. (Last year's result- $70 towing charge, a reprint in my club's bulletin from the local newspaper's "Police Blotter", and my subsequent resignation as Field Trip Chairman.) 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites from that site) 9.. In the event that I am unable to follow these resolutions completely, my wife also resolves to limit my collecting in 2009 to the Springfield Show while in her direct line of sight at all times. From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 08:38:35 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 3 08:37:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA In-Reply-To: <005e01c96db3$2aa8f820$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <720066059.282830.1230930305685.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> <005e01c96db3$2aa8f820$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <495F948B.2090508@verizon.net> Dora Smith wrote: > OK, so lonsdaleite is hexagonal, and is similar to diamonds, but is not > actually a diamond. Lonsdaleite is what would be called a polymorph of carbon--graphite, carbon nanotubes, and diamond are all arrangements of carbon. > Wonder who invented that six sided diamond notion - the authors, who > seem flaky enough, or the media? The information in my last post is still valid--in literal terms, a "six-sided diamond" would be a cubic (hexahedral) diamond. However, Pete's introduction of lonsdaleite in the subsequent post brought some doubt about the terms being used; in other words, is the author referring to a relative of diamond with a hexagonal unit cell (i.e. lonsdaleite), and then translating that incorrectly as a "six-sided diamond?" In today's environment of science-as-entertainment and science-as-politics, anything is possible. However, there is no debate that lonsdaleite is NOT diamond, just as stishovite and coesite are NOT quartz. Don From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 08:57:31 2009 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott & Meesha Blair) Date: Sat Jan 3 08:59:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> Message-ID: That's good stuff Larry: I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have such widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral specimens (smiles) I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get past the pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and begin the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year old grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still not fully recovered! Warm Regards - Scott Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a hiking > staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken femur, > ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites from > that site) From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 09:07:18 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Jan 3 09:07:24 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901021900r7c6c09edhdcb82ddbfe4219aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10901021900r7c6c09edhdcb82ddbfe4219aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kris - thanks for responding and for sharing your collecting tales as well. I was beginning to think that nobody else had gone collecting last year! :-) I'm still hoping that others on the rockhounds list will take the time to share their best collecting experiences of 2008. Come on all you field collectors out there! What was your most memorable trip of 2008? best regards, Nate Martin in cold and snowy Lexington, MA P.S. - I'll try to get a few parisite photos added to that online set of pictures. However - be forewarned that parisite-(Ce) is not exactly a beautiful mineral - sort of a chocolate brown, with some crystals tapered on both ends, reminiscent of......well, you know.....not yet petrified coprolite..... P.P.S. - I too bemoan the loss of the Clear Creek collecting area. I was fortunate enough to collect there three times, mostly around the perovskite knob. It is a wild and wonderful place! On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Kris Rowe wrote: > Howdy, Nathan! > Thanks for the great field trip reports, and > especially for the GREAT web pages on the Snowbird Mine! I'm still trying > to > pry my jaw off the floor after seeing the sheer size of that sceptered > quartz crystal! > I'd love to see some pics of the parisite crystals you mined, and > especially > the calcites from the Eureka. > > Being stuck in the Central Valley of California for 360 days last year, I > only got in 3 days collecting, due to one of my periodic "total life > remakes." Thankfully, 2009 looks like it will be a much better year for > collecting. > > My first collecting day was to the Panoche Hills, west of New Idria and the > Clear Creek BLM Management area. I've collected several sites in this area > for over 20 years and find a plethora of cuttable materials here, including > agates (plasma, banded, nodular "root beer" and many other types); agatized > palm, reed and wood; jaspers of many colors and patterns; nephrite AND > jadeite jades; howleite; ironstone; opal and opalites; serpentines; > opalized > shells; "reef" fossils; basalt cobbles; and the frequent "what the HECK is > that?" > > One of my favorites from the area is 'satin spar', fibrous cutting grade > seam gypsum. It's the perfect material for teaching hand cutting. Unlike > many tutors of the lapidary arts, I prefer to start students on soft > stones, > with wet/dry sandpaper. This encourages them to "feel" the stone, rather > than catering to the modern "need for speed." The speed that they > experience > when I allow them to saw their piece of 'spar' in preparation for sanding > by > hand gives them a realization of its 'butter' softness. Rather than ending > up with a stone that demonstrates how much of a beginner they are and > discouraging them, I try to make sure they learn that most basic lapidary > skill: Patience! This results in a stone that looks like a "bragger," > without costing them a fortune. > > But, I digress (as I usually do!) Back to collecting. With the closure of > the Clear Creek area due to "asbestos danger" ("Oh dear, oh my!") my > collecting will NOT include benetoite, fresnoite, or neptunite. Nor willl I > be able prospect for the lovely jadeite and nephrite found for the last > century in this area. Personally, I resent being treated like a child who > cannot take sufficient precautions against a "suspected carcinogen." It > seems that we should only be exposed to carcinogens when it's taxable, like > filling our gas tanks. > > O.K., enough soapbox ... (putting it away ...) > > On to Trona! > > Without a doubt, one of my top 5 "most enjoyable" collecting experiences > was > this years Searles Valley Mineral Society > Gem-O-Rama! > Nestled in the arid wilderness, Trona is a dusty, sulfurous oasis between > the bustling (yawn!) Metropolis of > Ridgecrest(pop. > 25,000) and Death Valley. > The home of the Searles Valley Mineral Corp, Trona produces many different > evaporate minerals in world class quantities. > For the mineral collector who craves evaporates, Trona is THE place! Most, > specifically, it's THE place one weekend out of the year! > > For over sixty-five years, rockhounds have come to Trona the second weekend > of October to brave the smelly mud, flying crystals and stinking brine that > are the trademarks of this great collecting event. 2008 was a great example > of just how great collecting can be on Searles Lake. > > We (my partner Laura and myself) arrived late in the evening of October 11 > at Motel 6 in Ridgecrest. We're both of the belief that, even when in a > motel, "roughing it" is an essential part of any collecting trip! So, in > the > interest of economy, we settled for a queen bed, and cable TV. > > Eye rubbingly early the next morning, we lit out for Trona, and hopefully, > something to eat. Note to all: Get up early, if you expect to eat before > the > first field trip. > > Arriving in Trona after a 30 minute drive, we found and stood in the > appropriate lines. Welllllll ... I stood in line, while my paramour went > "in search of" comfort facilities. Let me state right here, the Searles > Valley folks do a bang up job, and put on one of the best "small town" > shows > I've seen. They also have what is the most impressive "clubhouse" I've ever > seen! Still, the word for the smart collector is to get there eartly. There > are great dealers, great club members who actually KNOW where things are, > and to warn those with sensitive noses, an ever present sulfurous stink! > Only when a stiff wind blows does the "rotton egg" odor abate. > > After standing in line to buy donuts, only to find the last were sold to > the > folks ahead of me, we were able to get a banana! (Blessings to the lovely > club member who gave us her banana! Get there EARLY!) That, Pepsi and > cornchips were our breakfast, while we waited for the "Mudpile" field trip > to begin. > > One of the great pleasures of collecting at Trona is the brief drive from > the show grounds. The "dry" lake bed is IN town ... or is it the other way > around? Anywho, the organisation of the field trip is flawless, and within > 5 > minutes we arrived at the most impressive pile of stinking, sticky muck > I've > ever had the pleasure of getting my shoes stuck in. Found within these > mudpiles are rare hanksite crystals, trona crystals, borates and other > evaporates. Also to be found were throngs of people who were VERY serious > about getting the best and biggest hanksites! > > Runnning around, getting stuck like ants in honey, were throngs of children > of all ages, some of whom were making their first ever trip away from inner > city L.A. The looks on the faces of those kids made me feel as young as > they > were, as they pulled out and washed off hanksites the size of soda cans and > larger! > > There were troughs of lake brine for washing these crystals, which easily > and quickly melt in any less than a saturate saline soloution. These > quickly > became elbow to elbow affairs, and I generally had at least one small child > under each arm washing away as I smiled down on them. I seemed to be the > least serious (or the most amused) collector there, and recieved many > scornful looks as I chuckled and cracked jokes with harried parents. Of > course, these scornfull looks came from small children, who knew I couldn't > possibly appreciate the gravity of the situation! > > And, being friendly and marginally knowledgible, I soon had children > approaching with the ever present question: "What's THIS one worth?" > > Being my first time for hanksite collecting, I made many "educated" > guesses, > hoping I wasn't too far wrong! > No matter what my opinion was, the young digger would run off in search of > "the BIG One!" Many of the smallest kids found crystals that dwarfed mine! > > Having filled the plastic file boxes we brought for hanksite (keep your > hanksite moist, but not wet, until you can clean it completely) we left > with > the "last call." The drive back was short, and the food and hospitality at > the Clubhouse were great! After a sandwich and soda, we joined the bull > session in the field trip parking lot, and waited for the call to mount up! > > As always, the bull session was one of the best parts of collecting, and we > made new friends from far places. > John hailed from Minnesota, and entertained me with tales of gold > propecting > in Alaska and sapphires in Montana. A noisome throng appoached, students > from the University of Arizona at Prescott. We traded collecting tales, and > I showed them my "pet" Shaver Lake amethyst, which always goes propecting > with me. > > The afternoon trip was the fabled "Blowhole" trip, of which details can be > found at the linked "SLG&MS" site. It was truly impresive to watch the > video > at the clubhouse & see the explosives in use by the Navy Ordnance officers, > and the crystals being pumped out of the ground. As luck would have it, the > pumping that we'd seen as we passed the site that morning was the only we'd > be seeing. > As the drilling rig was working the last hole, the salt crust below gave > way, and the whole rig tipped on its side! However, we, the eager > collectors, were barely affected. Aside from looking wistfully toward the > now "off limits" hole with drill rig waiting for a tow truck, we gave our > attention to sorting through the tons of freshly pumped crystals. > Again, as in the morning, the children were happy to have someone who'd > give > them an identity for their discoveries, and what discoveries they were! My > own crystals paled before their glories, and I wished that I were 9 years > old again. > > I made friends with a 9 year old named Mathew, and his somewhat frayed > father, who was quite busy trying to herd 4 kids and still gather a few > crystals for himself. Matthew had the sort of luck I can only wish for, > showing up with handful after handful of rare top notch hanksite. The > toppers were a fist (that is, MY fist!) sized, museum clean "root beer" > brown hanksite and a very rare, 1/2" sulfo-halite. > Now, my eyes nearly left my skull when I saw that hanksite, since the usual > hanksite is green to amber colored, and clear. This one derived its color > from the dreamy, creamy "cumulous cloud" clay inclusions that floated below > its surface. When he asked the inevitible "How much?" I overcame > temptation, > and looked into his eyes. "Matthew," I slowly said, "I can't tell you." His > small brow furrowed as I continued,"That crystal is so fine, if I were you, > I'd never sell it." His Dad smiled and appreciated the moment. I'm sure > that > I'll see them again next year. Dad said I would! > > We quickly met up with several new friends whom we'd met at lunch, Nancy & > Kim, from Illinois. Kim is a GIA Graduate Gemologist, who'd decided to come > with her Mom to see what field collecting was all about! They asked sweetly > if I'd help them to identify thier finds, and as always (especially for > pretty ladies!) I said "Sure!" My darling Laura had invited them to sit > with > us, and found us 2 new friends! > I was in my own glory, surrounded by young and old collectors, and gave the > lions share of my attention to the collectors. Kim told us how she'd been a > "nail artist" with a special love for gems, and had recieved her G.G. quite > recently. When I said I'd love to do the same, she urged me on. "It's > easier > than you think!" > We'll see! > > I did come away with my own "special" crystal. When they were leaving, > Matthew and his Dad came over, and after Dad thanked me for my help, > Matthew > held out his hand, and gave me a perfect 1/2" twinned hanksite! That > crystal > now resides in my Favorites cabinet, smelling faintly of sulfur. > > After that we packed up, redolent of hydrogen sulfide and feeling salt > chapped, with a constant breeze blowing our hair in our faces. While I was > packing away our new treasures, Laura, Kim & Nancy wandered over to the > edge > of the collecting area, and out onto the adjoining salt. After getting the > ok to dig in, they pried loose the foamy grey surface salt, and found > enchanting "fairy towers" of dew deposited, snowy white salt "frost!" Now, > these pieces aren't small or cabinet sized, they're HUGE! We have five, > nestled carefully among dessicant packs in our garage, awaiting my > attention. They'll soon make lovely additions to someones *very* dry living > room! We had quite a time finding tubs to transport the still wet, fragile > specimens 250 miles home. > > After returning to the motel and cleaning off the accumulated muck, we had > a > delicious dinner at one of Ridgecrest's fine Chinese buffets, then returned > to watch "Stay Alive!" on cable. > > Bright and early the next morning, we slept through the alarm! So, instead > of a liesurely breakfast, we hurried and made it to Trona in time for the > "Brine Pond" collecting trip. > This was the one we'd made the trip for! The world famous "Searles Lake > Pink" halite would soon fill our hands, stinging them where blisters had > developed in our search for "the Best." > We met up with John at the Lake, and headed out eagerly onto the icy white > halite surface crust. The only way to learn where the best halite (a truly > subjective task!) lies is to break through that crust, a task which raised > the aforementioned blisters. > After finding a delightful array of crystal forms, and very little of the > "Prime" Pink halite, we heard a shout, and saw Kim waving for our > attention! > She'd gotten some help from experienced hands, and had found a deep port > wine colored brine pond, with several "shelves" of halite crystals. These > varied in form, but all were a lovely pale to cranberry pink! > > The time passed too quickly, and our totes filled too fast! I quickly > became > used to the sting of the brine, and took over from Kim in clearing out the > pond. As we'd been told, the halite grew in shelves, and the sharp crystals > could definitely cut! Thankfully, the brine tanned my blisters a deep red > and kept ANY infection away! > John wanderd off, but Laura kept her focus, looking far and wide for great > specimens that would become the delight of friends and customers alike. > Meanwhile, Kim & Nancy had consulted with me on transport problems, > wondering how they'd possibly get they're unexpectedly rich haul of > crystals > home safely. As it turns out, we later heard, they ended up adding an extra > day to the trip to ship thier bounty home! > > Leaving the Lake was truly difficult, especially since we felt like we'd > just found out what to look for. Kim & Nancy gave us hugs, and said fond > goodbyes. Isn't it amazing how fast collecting friends become? Reluctantly, > we carefully packed up for home, and started back across the salt. > > With a little foresight, I'd left some room in the totes, and had left a > tote at the car. On our way back, we collected from abandoned holes, and > had > great luck. We filled every possible corner, and carefully packed for the > trip home to Fresno. > > After slaking our thirst with Pepsi at the gas station conveniently located > across from the Lake entrance, we wandered back to the show, where we > joined > many folks who'd come out for the dealers, and grinned at others who looked > as salted and dusty as we. After a filing lunch of Polish Sausage & Frito > Boats (the 6th & 7th food groups!) and missing our new friends already, we > wandered amongst the now packing dealers, making connections and some > shrewd > deals, reluctant to call it a weekend. > > A tired but uneventful trip back found us planning to return in 2009, and > discussing who we'd like to bring with us! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Thanks again to all of the great folks we met, and all the great folks who > will read this, and know just how we feel. > > Be Well, y'all! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > Fresno, California, U.S.A. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 10:20:32 2009 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:20:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> Message-ID: <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more?of a?serious geology group....We are looking for a group that is?into the Rockhounding in Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of you are?into the basic?Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Scott & Meesha Blair To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions That's good stuff Larry: I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have such widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral specimens (smiles) I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get past the pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and begin the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year old grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still not fully recovered! Warm Regards - Scott Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites from that site) -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Jan 3 10:27:44 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:28:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions In-Reply-To: <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <495FAE20.5050606@rcn.com> Try la rocks group at Yahoo. and norcal rocks also at Yahoo. Cheri Moody wrote: > Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. > > Cheri Moody > > > > text/html > --- > From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 10:32:20 2009 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:32:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <495FAE20.5050606@rcn.com> Message-ID: <180444.80900.qm@web57708.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks Jay! ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Jay Bates To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:27:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions Try la rocks group at Yahoo. and norcal rocks also at Yahoo. Cheri Moody wrote: > Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. >? Cheri Moody? > >? ? text/html > --- >? -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 10:42:23 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:42:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions In-Reply-To: <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cheri, Welcome to the list. Our list includes a diverse group of people from all over the world. It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually provide an answer to almost any question that you might have. I guess the real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding. I think Wikipedia has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list are as well. However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find discussions of it here. The topics discussed vary from day to day and month to month. Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about our hobby. You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location. (I am a member of that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you choose to apply. Its a great hobby. best regards, Nate martin Lexington, MA On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody wrote: > Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This > group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology > group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in > Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, > Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of > you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. > > Cheri Moody > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Scott & Meesha Blair > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > That's good stuff Larry: > > I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have such > widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral specimens > (smiles) > > I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt > into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get past the > pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and begin > the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year old > grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and > continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. > > In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still not > fully recovered! > > Warm Regards - Scott Blair > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > > > 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a > hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken > femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites > from that site) > > -- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 3 12:54:02 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 3 12:57:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress References: Message-ID: Nate mentioned some good collecting stories. Here is a minor one I experienced last week.... On a warmer (60 degrees F.) day last week, we took a day off from the holiday madness and went up to walk the deserted Rhode Island beaches. The day was cloudy and foggy there, but it was wonderful to walk and explore at a time when no one else was anywhere to be seen. At one end of the Charlestown Beach, near the breachway, the winter storms had winnowed great strands of Magnetite sand into long surf driven "windrows", several feet wide, about six inches deep, and hundreds of yards long. Pure, black, and striking. When I dug into it to find the depth, I found a band of Garnet just below it, also just as long and wide. Evidently these were separated by density with the high, strong surf this Fall and Winter. Not really unusual, but surprising to see so much of the minerals, originally derived from the New England hard rock highlands, concentrated like that. I have sometimes collected Magnetite from beach sands with a magnet, but this time a shovel would have given me all I could ever hope for. Just to imagine the time involved to weather out these minerals from the granite, many miles away and hundreds of feet higher in altitude, then to have them transported by streams (and glaciers), down to the ocean, and ground up to be redeposited at my feet is to bring home Geology to be seen first hand! Of course, the quartz beach sand underwent the same process, but we are so used to seeing that, it doesn't make much of an impression. Not really a collecting trip, but interesting just the same, in Winter in New Engalnd! Micromounts, anyone?? Larry From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 16:40:59 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 3 16:41:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: Message-ID: <004d01c96e05$1d4012c0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> I use Geocities Web Hosting; just upgraded from Geocities Plus. It's on sale for three months and then it's I think $11.95 a month charged four times a year. I like geocities, and their tech support at that level isn't too bad so far, but I wouldn't mind finding something cheaper. I have an HTML editor and FTP my stuff to hte site, so I don't need that stuff. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Pai" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > Thanks Kreigh for the advice. I will remember to prefix with 'OT' next > time... > > and thanks to all the others who have given their advice as well... > > It's weird however because I can't seem to open some of the member > websites including Larry Rush's, Ron Hammerron's, etc.... Wondering what > you guys are selling that the Chinese government doesn't want the Chinese > public to see... hahaha... > > I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the USof A later this month > before I can open your websites... alternatively, I need to figure out a > way to get around this 'Great Fire Wall' the government has set up here... > One of the small inconveniences one has to live with in China, still... > > Thanks again to all, > > Lyle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Lyle Pai" > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 1:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > > >> Lyle, >> >> This topic really should have been prefixed with 'OT:'. >> >> A dozen years ago I selected Concentric as my personal host. They are >> now XO, but I have found no reason to change. They are not the >> cheapest, but I have had no outages for my website, and their tools and >> support have been outstanding. >> >> If you decide to select them, please tell them I made the >> recommendation (as Tomaszewski.net). >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 23:49 America/Detroit, Lyle Pai wrote: >> >> > I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been >> > discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this >> > has been discussed already... >> > >> > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted >> > to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit >> > from... >> > >> > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful >> > comments would be most appreciated... >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 16:41:27 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 3 16:41:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service References: Message-ID: <005101c96e05$2dd18f10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> They'd probably look lovely in a tabular or photo album sort of arrangement. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service >I can't imagine that my modest minerals are any competition to the vast >number of Chinese merchants on the web. Maybe it's that complaint I made on >New Year's Eve about the Sweet and Sour Pork at our favorite Chinese >restaurant!! > > Larry Rush > > ============================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lyle Pai" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service > > >> Thanks Kreigh for the advice. I will remember to prefix with 'OT' next >> time... >> >> and thanks to all the others who have given their advice as well... >> >> It's weird however because I can't seem to open some of the member >> websites including Larry Rush's, Ron Hammerron's, etc.... Wondering what >> you guys are selling that the Chinese government doesn't want the Chinese >> public to see... hahaha... >> >> I guess I'll have to wait until I get back to the USof A later this month >> before I can open your websites... alternatively, I need to figure out a >> way to get around this 'Great Fire Wall' the government has set up >> here... One of the small inconveniences one has to live with in China, >> still... >> >> Thanks again to all, >> >> Lyle >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >> To: "Lyle Pai" >> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 1:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Web-hosting service >> >> >>> Lyle, >>> >>> This topic really should have been prefixed with 'OT:'. >>> >>> A dozen years ago I selected Concentric as my personal host. They are >>> now XO, but I have found no reason to change. They are not the >>> cheapest, but I have had no outages for my website, and their tools and >>> support have been outstanding. >>> >>> If you decide to select them, please tell them I made the >>> recommendation (as Tomaszewski.net). >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, Jan 2, 2009, at 23:49 America/Detroit, Lyle Pai wrote: >>> >>> > I tried searching the archives to see if this subject has been >>> > discussed before but was unable to so my advanced apologies if this >>> > has been discussed already... >>> > >>> > I've been searching around for a good web hosting service and wanted >>> > to see if there are any experience out there that I could benefit >>> > from... >>> > >>> > I've looked at ELAHOST and they look pretty reasonable. Any helpful >>> > comments would be most appreciated... >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> > Subscription Services: >>> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Jan 3 16:47:49 2009 From: efkern at earthlink.net (erich kern) Date: Sat Jan 3 16:48:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise Message-ID: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> !3,000 yrs BCE http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm?ad=1 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 16:56:43 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 3 16:55:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise In-Reply-To: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> Message-ID: <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> erich kern wrote: > !3,000 yrs BCE > > > http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm?ad=1 OK, now we have some clarity on what's being said: "...lonsdalite, or hexagonal diamonds, associated with meteorite explosions." So this is some bad terminology. Pretty sad. Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 17:04:06 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 3 17:03:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise In-Reply-To: <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49600B06.5000009@verizon.net> DonH wrote: > erich kern wrote: > >> 13,000 yrs BCE >> >> http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm?ad=1 Oh, P.S: never send a geologist to do a mineralogist's job! And the reporter (Molly Bentley) has a biography that says "She earned her B.A. in English and Art History at Grinnell College in Iowa." While there is nothing wrong with that, I'm wondering why they can't find someone more qualified to be a science reporter. Thanks Erich for the link. Best, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 3 18:13:57 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 3 18:14:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 References: <831c9ad10901021900r7c6c09edhdcb82ddbfe4219aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <785F26105A94457C8E4A14F6ACEB3142@Goldstein> 2008 was a good year for fossil collecting, less so for minerals. Explored western KY mineral areas with Bill Frazer looking for new dig sites. Found a great celestine locality! Found spectacular hemimorphite specimens during the Clement Show & Dig in June at the Hickory Cane mine. I was also able to collect at Cave in Rock during a GSA field trip, but was turned away during a June visit. Corydon Quarry was decent this year during the only visit, but I never had time for additional trips. I will make an effort to do better this year. Other southern Indiana quarries (Silurian and Devonian fossil sites) proved to be worthwhile. One of the better Devonian collecting areas was graded and prepared for blasting, so it will be mediocre for 2009. I could explore the massive waste pile to see if any interesting fossils wash out before they grass it over. But it has a pretty steep angle of repose. The Waldron shale was productive as usual. Found a nice crinoid calyx its arms had pinnules! I picked it up for flagstone, but when I glanced down and saw the crinoid, it is now safely ensconced in my collection. If one quarry expands their shale exposures as anticipated, it should prove to be the start of a better collecting site. Spent time investigating some exposures of the Kope Formation (Upper Ordovician) in northern KY and found some very interesting fossils. At this point I can safely say I've got fossils out the whazoo. 2009 is off to a good start. A friend and I did some reconnoitering at a local cement quarry famous for Devonian fossils this afternoon. Did more walking around (rather muddy) than collecting, but found a new spot for Beechwood Limestone fauna (including a nice silicified blastoid) and a large area in the North Vernon Fm. loaded with well-preserved brachiopods. The Jeffersonville Limestone was - as usual - packed with corals. Some swaths have one silicified fossil per square inch over many square feet! I'm hoping to explore new areas for fossils and minerals this year. I hope 2009 is a good collecting year for you, too! Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Rowe" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 > Howdy, Nathan! > Thanks for the great field trip reports, and > especially for the GREAT web pages on the Snowbird Mine! I'm still trying > to > pry my jaw off the floor after seeing the sheer size of that sceptered > quartz crystal! > I'd love to see some pics of the parisite crystals you mined, and > especially > the calcites from the Eureka. > > Being stuck in the Central Valley of California for 360 days last year, I > only got in 3 days collecting, due to one of my periodic "total life > remakes." Thankfully, 2009 looks like it will be a much better year for > collecting. > > My first collecting day was to the Panoche Hills, west of New Idria and > the > Clear Creek BLM Management area. I've collected several sites in this area > for over 20 years and find a plethora of cuttable materials here, > including > agates (plasma, banded, nodular "root beer" and many other types); > agatized > palm, reed and wood; jaspers of many colors and patterns; nephrite AND > jadeite jades; howleite; ironstone; opal and opalites; serpentines; > opalized > shells; "reef" fossils; basalt cobbles; and the frequent "what the HECK > is > that?" > > One of my favorites from the area is 'satin spar', fibrous cutting grade > seam gypsum. It's the perfect material for teaching hand cutting. Unlike > many tutors of the lapidary arts, I prefer to start students on soft > stones, > with wet/dry sandpaper. This encourages them to "feel" the stone, rather > than catering to the modern "need for speed." The speed that they > experience > when I allow them to saw their piece of 'spar' in preparation for sanding > by > hand gives them a realization of its 'butter' softness. Rather than ending > up with a stone that demonstrates how much of a beginner they are and > discouraging them, I try to make sure they learn that most basic lapidary > skill: Patience! This results in a stone that looks like a "bragger," > without costing them a fortune. > > But, I digress (as I usually do!) Back to collecting. With the closure of > the Clear Creek area due to "asbestos danger" ("Oh dear, oh my!") my > collecting will NOT include benetoite, fresnoite, or neptunite. Nor willl > I > be able prospect for the lovely jadeite and nephrite found for the last > century in this area. Personally, I resent being treated like a child who > cannot take sufficient precautions against a "suspected carcinogen." It > seems that we should only be exposed to carcinogens when it's taxable, > like > filling our gas tanks. > > O.K., enough soapbox ... (putting it away ...) > > On to Trona! > > Without a doubt, one of my top 5 "most enjoyable" collecting experiences > was > this years Searles Valley Mineral Society > Gem-O-Rama! > Nestled in the arid wilderness, Trona is a dusty, sulfurous oasis between > the bustling (yawn!) Metropolis of > Ridgecrest(pop. > 25,000) and Death Valley. > The home of the Searles Valley Mineral Corp, Trona produces many different > evaporate minerals in world class quantities. > For the mineral collector who craves evaporates, Trona is THE place! Most, > specifically, it's THE place one weekend out of the year! > > For over sixty-five years, rockhounds have come to Trona the second > weekend > of October to brave the smelly mud, flying crystals and stinking brine > that > are the trademarks of this great collecting event. 2008 was a great > example > of just how great collecting can be on Searles Lake. > > We (my partner Laura and myself) arrived late in the evening of October 11 > at Motel 6 in Ridgecrest. We're both of the belief that, even when in a > motel, "roughing it" is an essential part of any collecting trip! So, in > the > interest of economy, we settled for a queen bed, and cable TV. > > Eye rubbingly early the next morning, we lit out for Trona, and hopefully, > something to eat. Note to all: Get up early, if you expect to eat before > the > first field trip. > > Arriving in Trona after a 30 minute drive, we found and stood in the > appropriate lines. Welllllll ... I stood in line, while my paramour went > "in search of" comfort facilities. Let me state right here, the Searles > Valley folks do a bang up job, and put on one of the best "small town" > shows > I've seen. They also have what is the most impressive "clubhouse" I've > ever > seen! Still, the word for the smart collector is to get there eartly. > There > are great dealers, great club members who actually KNOW where things are, > and to warn those with sensitive noses, an ever present sulfurous stink! > Only when a stiff wind blows does the "rotton egg" odor abate. > > After standing in line to buy donuts, only to find the last were sold to > the > folks ahead of me, we were able to get a banana! (Blessings to the lovely > club member who gave us her banana! Get there EARLY!) That, Pepsi and > cornchips were our breakfast, while we waited for the "Mudpile" field trip > to begin. > > One of the great pleasures of collecting at Trona is the brief drive from > the show grounds. The "dry" lake bed is IN town ... or is it the other way > around? Anywho, the organisation of the field trip is flawless, and within > 5 > minutes we arrived at the most impressive pile of stinking, sticky muck > I've > ever had the pleasure of getting my shoes stuck in. Found within these > mudpiles are rare hanksite crystals, trona crystals, borates and other > evaporates. Also to be found were throngs of people who were VERY serious > about getting the best and biggest hanksites! > > Runnning around, getting stuck like ants in honey, were throngs of > children > of all ages, some of whom were making their first ever trip away from > inner > city L.A. The looks on the faces of those kids made me feel as young as > they > were, as they pulled out and washed off hanksites the size of soda cans > and > larger! > > There were troughs of lake brine for washing these crystals, which easily > and quickly melt in any less than a saturate saline soloution. These > quickly > became elbow to elbow affairs, and I generally had at least one small > child > under each arm washing away as I smiled down on them. I seemed to be the > least serious (or the most amused) collector there, and recieved many > scornful looks as I chuckled and cracked jokes with harried parents. Of > course, these scornfull looks came from small children, who knew I > couldn't > possibly appreciate the gravity of the situation! > > And, being friendly and marginally knowledgible, I soon had children > approaching with the ever present question: "What's THIS one worth?" > > Being my first time for hanksite collecting, I made many "educated" > guesses, > hoping I wasn't too far wrong! > No matter what my opinion was, the young digger would run off in search of > "the BIG One!" Many of the smallest kids found crystals that dwarfed mine! > > Having filled the plastic file boxes we brought for hanksite (keep your > hanksite moist, but not wet, until you can clean it completely) we left > with > the "last call." The drive back was short, and the food and hospitality at > the Clubhouse were great! After a sandwich and soda, we joined the bull > session in the field trip parking lot, and waited for the call to mount > up! > > As always, the bull session was one of the best parts of collecting, and > we > made new friends from far places. > John hailed from Minnesota, and entertained me with tales of gold > propecting > in Alaska and sapphires in Montana. A noisome throng appoached, students > from the University of Arizona at Prescott. We traded collecting tales, > and > I showed them my "pet" Shaver Lake amethyst, which always goes propecting > with me. > > The afternoon trip was the fabled "Blowhole" trip, of which details can be > found at the linked "SLG&MS" site. It was truly impresive to watch the > video > at the clubhouse & see the explosives in use by the Navy Ordnance > officers, > and the crystals being pumped out of the ground. As luck would have it, > the > pumping that we'd seen as we passed the site that morning was the only > we'd > be seeing. > As the drilling rig was working the last hole, the salt crust below gave > way, and the whole rig tipped on its side! However, we, the eager > collectors, were barely affected. Aside from looking wistfully toward the > now "off limits" hole with drill rig waiting for a tow truck, we gave our > attention to sorting through the tons of freshly pumped crystals. > Again, as in the morning, the children were happy to have someone who'd > give > them an identity for their discoveries, and what discoveries they were! My > own crystals paled before their glories, and I wished that I were 9 years > old again. > > I made friends with a 9 year old named Mathew, and his somewhat frayed > father, who was quite busy trying to herd 4 kids and still gather a few > crystals for himself. Matthew had the sort of luck I can only wish for, > showing up with handful after handful of rare top notch hanksite. The > toppers were a fist (that is, MY fist!) sized, museum clean "root beer" > brown hanksite and a very rare, 1/2" sulfo-halite. > Now, my eyes nearly left my skull when I saw that hanksite, since the > usual > hanksite is green to amber colored, and clear. This one derived its color > from the dreamy, creamy "cumulous cloud" clay inclusions that floated > below > its surface. When he asked the inevitible "How much?" I overcame > temptation, > and looked into his eyes. "Matthew," I slowly said, "I can't tell you." > His > small brow furrowed as I continued,"That crystal is so fine, if I were > you, > I'd never sell it." His Dad smiled and appreciated the moment. I'm sure > that > I'll see them again next year. Dad said I would! > > We quickly met up with several new friends whom we'd met at lunch, Nancy & > Kim, from Illinois. Kim is a GIA Graduate Gemologist, who'd decided to > come > with her Mom to see what field collecting was all about! They asked > sweetly > if I'd help them to identify thier finds, and as always (especially for > pretty ladies!) I said "Sure!" My darling Laura had invited them to sit > with > us, and found us 2 new friends! > I was in my own glory, surrounded by young and old collectors, and gave > the > lions share of my attention to the collectors. Kim told us how she'd been > a > "nail artist" with a special love for gems, and had recieved her G.G. > quite > recently. When I said I'd love to do the same, she urged me on. "It's > easier > than you think!" > We'll see! > > I did come away with my own "special" crystal. When they were leaving, > Matthew and his Dad came over, and after Dad thanked me for my help, > Matthew > held out his hand, and gave me a perfect 1/2" twinned hanksite! That > crystal > now resides in my Favorites cabinet, smelling faintly of sulfur. > > After that we packed up, redolent of hydrogen sulfide and feeling salt > chapped, with a constant breeze blowing our hair in our faces. While I was > packing away our new treasures, Laura, Kim & Nancy wandered over to the > edge > of the collecting area, and out onto the adjoining salt. After getting the > ok to dig in, they pried loose the foamy grey surface salt, and found > enchanting "fairy towers" of dew deposited, snowy white salt "frost!" Now, > these pieces aren't small or cabinet sized, they're HUGE! We have five, > nestled carefully among dessicant packs in our garage, awaiting my > attention. They'll soon make lovely additions to someones *very* dry > living > room! We had quite a time finding tubs to transport the still wet, fragile > specimens 250 miles home. > > After returning to the motel and cleaning off the accumulated muck, we had > a > delicious dinner at one of Ridgecrest's fine Chinese buffets, then > returned > to watch "Stay Alive!" on cable. > > Bright and early the next morning, we slept through the alarm! So, instead > of a liesurely breakfast, we hurried and made it to Trona in time for the > "Brine Pond" collecting trip. > This was the one we'd made the trip for! The world famous "Searles Lake > Pink" halite would soon fill our hands, stinging them where blisters had > developed in our search for "the Best." > We met up with John at the Lake, and headed out eagerly onto the icy white > halite surface crust. The only way to learn where the best halite (a truly > subjective task!) lies is to break through that crust, a task which raised > the aforementioned blisters. > After finding a delightful array of crystal forms, and very little of the > "Prime" Pink halite, we heard a shout, and saw Kim waving for our > attention! > She'd gotten some help from experienced hands, and had found a deep port > wine colored brine pond, with several "shelves" of halite crystals. These > varied in form, but all were a lovely pale to cranberry pink! > > The time passed too quickly, and our totes filled too fast! I quickly > became > used to the sting of the brine, and took over from Kim in clearing out the > pond. As we'd been told, the halite grew in shelves, and the sharp > crystals > could definitely cut! Thankfully, the brine tanned my blisters a deep red > and kept ANY infection away! > John wanderd off, but Laura kept her focus, looking far and wide for great > specimens that would become the delight of friends and customers alike. > Meanwhile, Kim & Nancy had consulted with me on transport problems, > wondering how they'd possibly get they're unexpectedly rich haul of > crystals > home safely. As it turns out, we later heard, they ended up adding an > extra > day to the trip to ship thier bounty home! > > Leaving the Lake was truly difficult, especially since we felt like we'd > just found out what to look for. Kim & Nancy gave us hugs, and said fond > goodbyes. Isn't it amazing how fast collecting friends become? > Reluctantly, > we carefully packed up for home, and started back across the salt. > > With a little foresight, I'd left some room in the totes, and had left a > tote at the car. On our way back, we collected from abandoned holes, and > had > great luck. We filled every possible corner, and carefully packed for the > trip home to Fresno. > > After slaking our thirst with Pepsi at the gas station conveniently > located > across from the Lake entrance, we wandered back to the show, where we > joined > many folks who'd come out for the dealers, and grinned at others who > looked > as salted and dusty as we. After a filing lunch of Polish Sausage & Frito > Boats (the 6th & 7th food groups!) and missing our new friends already, we > wandered amongst the now packing dealers, making connections and some > shrewd > deals, reluctant to call it a weekend. > > A tired but uneventful trip back found us planning to return in 2009, and > discussing who we'd like to bring with us! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Thanks again to all of the great folks we met, and all the great folks who > will read this, and know just how we feel. > > Be Well, y'all! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > Fresno, California, U.S.A. > > > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Nathan Martin > wrote: > >> Happy last Day of 2008! >> The snow is falling here in Massachusetts again so its a good time to >> think >> back to the collecting that I was able to do this past year. I was >> fortunate enough to collect in CA, MT, KY, IN, OH, CT, NH, ME and MA this >> year. Two trips really stand out as being extra special. >> >> A) The first was a trip last July to the Snowbird Mine near the >> Montana/Idaho border that I made with Lanny Ream while I was out in Idaho >> on >> business. Although the Snowbird Mine was mined for fluorite it is >> arguably >> the best locality in the US to collect decent sized crystals of >> parisite-(Ce). It also happens to offer some of the most spectacular >> views >> of any locality I have visited. The trip was made more interesting by >> the >> fact that we had to shovel snow and clear some small trees off the forest >> service road leading to the mine to get as close as possible to the mine >> road. It was 12 July and we were clearly the first ones to drive in. I >> enjoyed the trip so much that I went back again in August on my next trip >> out there. I now just may have the best self-collected parisite-(Ce) >> crystals of anyone in New England although Lanny and others more local to >> the site certainly have better ones than those I found. I have a >> powerpoint >> presentation of pictures that I took up on my club's website for anyone >> who >> is interested in seeing what the geology and scenery is like up there. >> The >> URL is >> http://www.bostonmineralclub.org/docs/2008-snowbird/page-01.htm >> >> B) The second trip was the Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip that I led to >> the >> Eureka Mine in Marion, KY last October. This was without a doubt the >> most >> successful collecting trip of the 5 times that I have been to Marion, KY >> and >> may well rank as the most successful BMC collecting trip ever. We >> devoted >> four days of collecting to a fresh exposure of ledge that we paid to have >> dug by a track hoe that Bill Frazer brought in for us. We also used >> a gasoline-powered generator & electric pump to keep the water out of our >> pit which was 6 feet below the level of Hurricane Creek just 3 feet away >> and >> used a 14" diamond blade saw to help work some of the pockets. It was >> wet >> dirty work but the 15 people that attended this trip all went home very >> satisfied with the results. >> >> On Monday, 13 October, we had our greatest surprise. I had run a saw cut >> along the top of some hard ledge so that we could work our way down to >> some >> of the exposed fluorite pockets below. Ed Norton began working the cut >> and >> broke off a large chunk of of ledge that exposed what we now call the >> "Lucky >> 13" pocket. The first indication that this was no ordinary pocket was >> the >> ~5" sharp, lustrous, doubly-terminated calcite floater that lay loose in >> the >> pocket (think Elmwood quality). Still attached to the wall was the >> entire >> back of the pocket containing four other large calcite crystals. I >> carefully ran multiple saw cuts around each edge of the pocket and Ed >> began >> even more carefully working the perimeter cuts to try to extract the >> pocket >> intact. After a lot of hard work he extracted a roughly 12" x 15" slab >> with >> 4 intact calcite crystals. Both Bill Frazer and a local geologist >> indicated >> that these are the finest calcite crystals ever collected from Crittenton >> County. Bret Hume of Pittsburgh took home the calcite floater but Ed >> Norton >> got the pocket in our split of the specimens and he won first place for >> best >> fieldtrip specimen at the annual BMC specimen competition last November. >> We >> also worked numerous fluorite pockets and extracted a number of fantastic >> specimens. My best fluorite specimen (a 6" fluorite cluster featuring >> one >> 4" stepped cube crystal also took first place in the best self-collected >> specimen from the current year. As great as it was to bring home some >> good >> specimens, the best reward for me was the thrill of seeing the pockets >> exposed and working with a good group of people to extract the crystals >> from >> them. >> >> While we were there we also did a night fluorescent dig at the Columbia >> mine >> and it too was also a success. I have a 5 gal bucket full of brightly >> fluorescent rocks from this dig, including some with 4 colors on a single >> specimen. This is wonderful fluorescent material and I encourage any of >> you >> who collect fluorescent minerals to consider a trip there. If you are >> interested in either fluorite collecting or the fluorescent dig, contact >> the >> Ben Clement Mineral Museum in Marion KY to arrange a collecting trip for >> your club. The fees from these trips help to keep this struggling museum >> alive. >> >> On the way home my wife and I also did some geode collecting in Indiana >> and >> some fossil collecting at a state park in Ohio. At the famous >> Harrodsburg >> roadcut on state road 37 in Indiana we stopped so that I could climb up >> to >> a >> productive geode zone that I had worked last year. I spent about 30 >> minutes >> doing some hard work with hammer and chisel to free a 6" geode from the >> hard >> Indiana limestone. Meanwhile my wife looked around the base of the >> roadcut >> and picked up a chunk of rock that had fallen off at some point in time. >> The rock was rounded on one end and she brought it to me to see if it was >> a >> geode. Well it was indeed a geode; a 6" geode with a crack already >> started. It took only one hammer blow to split it open to expose a very >> nice quartz crystal interior with a few nicely placed cream-colored >> dolomite >> crystals providing an aesthetic accent. I had worked hard for 30 minutes >> to >> get my geode and she picked hers up off the ground! By the way, her >> geode >> won first place in the self-collected, non-New England category at the >> BMC >> specimen competition. >> >> Well those are my storied from 2008. Please share yours as well!!! >> >> best wishes for a safe and happy 2009, >> May all of your collecting trips be successful with your crystal >> specimens >> terminated & gemmy! >> >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jan 3 19:10:47 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 3 19:10:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496028B7.5060304@hawaiiantel.net> Nice story, Larry. I think I may have mentioned this a few years ago, but there's a place in New Zealand called Kiritehere Beach where the sand has a very high iron content. The sand looks like the black sand here in Hawaii, which is fine grain lava basalt, but is highly attracted to a magnet, so much so that you can fill a glass vial with it and a small ordinary magnet will pick up the whole vial. At one time a plan was proposed to use some process to mine or extract the iron from the beach for profit. Fortunately that idea was discarded, because it is a beautiful beach ---see link below. The beach also has abundant fossils of what look like ferns, clams, and some other kind of shells (sorry, I'm not a fossil hound). The following link was the best I could do to find a picture and hopefully more information. You can see the black sand, but not the rest of the beach, and I couldn't find any mention of the sand being full of iron. For those of you familiar with New Zealand, it is on the North Island, west side, not far from Waitomo Caves (which are very interesting in themselves, for the underground lake and worms on the ceiling which glow in the dark). http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2022059340042404614HgyWsJ Aloha, K. Lawrence Rush wrote: > At one end of the Charlestown Beach, near the breachway, the winter > storms had winnowed great strands of Magnetite sand into long surf > driven "windrows", several feet wide, about six inches deep, and > hundreds of yards long. Pure, black, and striking. When I dug into it > to find the depth, I found a band of Garnet just below it, also just > as long and wide. Evidently these were separated by density with the > high, strong surf this Fall and Winter. Not really unusual, but > surprising to see so much of the minerals, originally derived from the > New England hard rock highlands, concentrated like that. I have > sometimes collected Magnetite from beach sands with a magnet, but this > time a shovel would have given me all I could ever hope for. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 22:27:06 2009 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jan 3 22:27:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Best 2008 Collecting Trips Message-ID: ALL of them! These are my 3 top picks: 1) The Falls of the Ohio State Park collecting piles to Eastern PA and lots of stops including Franklin, N.C. on our super trip up one side and down the other from the Gulf Coast to Niagara Falls. Several trips in one that included fossils (my first self collected brachiopods) and minerals including Eastonite and a mystery "rock" with reddish starbursts and slightly radioactive with a bit of thorium. 2) Canoeing down the Peace River in Florida and finding lots of shark teeth, ray plates, and a nice fossil gator tooth with Jeanette. 3) A few minutes the day after Christmas at a small road cut off the Natchez Trace near Tupelo, Mississippi with my rock loving grandson finding exogyra oysters and gastropods in an exposure of the Selma Chalk Fomation. Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 23:12:55 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat Jan 3 23:13:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another extinction impact-13 KYA Message-ID: <705361.50589.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Regarding conflicting facts such as diamond variations etc. ?I've come to treat any "conflicting information" in a news article written by a staff writer, about any scientific topic, as more likely a failure of the staff writer to understand and correctly report what they have heard. We have no way of knowing what the briefer actually told them and how much of the details were scrambled up a little. ? I know when I try to explain a scientific concepts to the average layman, I use similar concepts they might be familiar with to compare or contrast the facts at hand.? I think most professors would do the same. Eman --- On Sat, 1/3/09, DonH wrote: The information in my last post is still valid--in literal terms, a "six-sided diamond" would be a cubic (hexahedral) diamond.? However, Pete's introduction of lonsdaleite in the subsequent post brought some doubt about the terms being used; in other words, is the author referring to a relative of diamond with a hexagonal unit cell (i.e. lonsdaleite), and then translating that incorrectly as a "six-sided diamond?"? In today's environment of science-as-entertainment and science-as-politics, anything is possible. However, there is no debate that lonsdaleite is NOT diamond, just as stishovite and coesite are NOT quartz. Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 09:32:15 2009 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Sun Jan 4 09:32:19 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! References: <9BC7D2CE1E1E43AA94C57B64D7724069@LarryRush> <972388.63677.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <972085.29301.qm@web57703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to be a part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to find?Turquoise. A quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Nathan Martin To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions Hi Cheri, Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and month to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about our hobby. You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member of that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you choose to apply.? Its a great hobby. best regards, Nate martin Lexington, MA On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody wrote: > Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This > group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology > group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in > Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, > Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of > you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. > > Cheri Moody > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Scott & Meesha Blair > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > That's good stuff Larry: > > I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have such > widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral specimens > (smiles) > > I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt > into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get past the > pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and begin > the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year old > grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and > continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. > > In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still not > fully recovered! > > Warm Regards - Scott Blair > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > > >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a > hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken > femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites > from that site) > > -- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative >? text/plain (text body -- kept) >? text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative ? text/plain (text body -- kept) ? text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 09:46:29 2009 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Sun Jan 4 09:46:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Best 2008 Collecting Trips References: Message-ID: <138025.24520.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com> We had?a few really good adventures in 2008. One of our favorites?is a pretty well known site in Blythe, CA. It is?off the beaten path?out?in the desert?near Wiley, and Coon Hollow.? We?dug up some really nice Geodes and?found a few good specimen's of Fire Agate near the?Opal mine. Another really nice place that we enjoy?is the Jade Cove up in Northern Cali, near?Big Sur.?We have a really nice Jade rock shaped in a heart that is very precious to us. We also found?some good pieces of Agate and Jasper?near Calico, Cali. Was a fantastic year for our Rockhounding trips.?The Fishing was not?bad either! ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Glenn Wimpee To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:27:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Best 2008 Collecting Trips ALL of them! These are my 3 top picks: 1) The Falls of the Ohio State Park collecting piles to Eastern PA and lots of stops including Franklin, N.C. on our super trip up one side and down the other from the Gulf Coast to Niagara Falls. Several trips in one that included fossils (my first self collected brachiopods) and minerals including Eastonite and a mystery "rock" with reddish starbursts and slightly radioactive with a bit of thorium. 2) Canoeing down the Peace River in Florida and finding lots of shark teeth, ray plates, and a nice fossil gator tooth with Jeanette. 3) A few minutes the day after Christmas at a small road cut off the Natchez Trace near Tupelo, Mississippi with my rock loving grandson finding exogyra oysters and gastropods in an exposure of the Selma Chalk Fomation. Glenn EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative ? text/plain (text body -- kept) ? text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 12:12:07 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Jan 4 12:12:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Larry, Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. Lets hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities of magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just the opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce the layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on the list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an opinion? best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Nate mentioned some good collecting stories. Here is a minor one I > experienced last week.... > > On a warmer (60 degrees F.) day last week, we took a day off from the > holiday madness and went up to walk the deserted Rhode Island beaches. The > day was cloudy and foggy there, but it was wonderful to walk and explore at > a time when no one else was anywhere to be seen. At one end of the > Charlestown Beach, near the breachway, the winter storms had winnowed great > strands of Magnetite sand into long surf driven "windrows", several feet > wide, about six inches deep, and hundreds of yards long. Pure, black, and > striking. When I dug into it to find the depth, I found a band of Garnet > just below it, also just as long and wide. Evidently these were separated by > density with the high, strong surf this Fall and Winter. Not really unusual, > but surprising to see so much of the minerals, originally derived from the > New England hard rock highlands, concentrated like that. I have sometimes > collected Magnetite from beach sands with a magnet, but this time a shovel > would have given me all I could ever hope for. > > Just to imagine the time involved to weather out these minerals from the > granite, many miles away and hundreds of feet higher in altitude, then to > have them transported by streams (and glaciers), down to the ocean, and > ground up to be redeposited at my feet is to bring home Geology to be seen > first hand! > Of course, the quartz beach sand underwent the same process, but we are so > used to seeing that, it doesn't make much of an impression. > > Not really a collecting trip, but interesting just the same, in Winter in > New Engalnd! > > Micromounts, anyone?? > > Larry > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Jan 4 14:09:42 2009 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Jan 4 14:09:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> Nathan Martin wrote: > Larry, > Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. Lets > hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! > > One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that > the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities of > magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine > (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just the > opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn > over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce the > layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some > pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is > common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on the > list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an opinion? > > Not a sand collector, but could it be a safe venture to make a statement that rocks float?? Most farmers know this and dont realize it. I suspect that it is more likely that the garnet was able to be worn and fragmented to a smaller size than the magnetite and so, the smaller particles sink and the larger particles float. Try it some time on your vibratory lap unit. fill a mason jar full of various size grains/pebbles, chips, and invariably, after a long period of time the big ones,,,,,, wind up on top Dennis Buffenmyer From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 4 16:33:45 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Jan 4 16:37:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress References: Message-ID: Nate: That's an interesting question. I have two thoughts as possible answers.... One....It was the holidays and everything is upside down at that time....or... Maybe the layers were deposited at different times. The first storm laid down Magnetite and Garnet in different places, and a subsequent one washed away the Magnetite to be redeposited on top of the Garnet? I don't think there was any overturning where I saw the layers. They were even and discrete, no interruptions. They were at the higher portion of the beach, where the wave action had to be stronger than normal, but nothing really of super strength. Are there such layers to be found in the old sedimentary quartzite deposits? Is layered granular Magnetite ever an economic deposit in quartzite? I don't know that I ever saw that in the literature or in the field. One other interesting fact about that same area of that beach. Some years ago, a strong storm washed away a great deal of sand at the upper levels and exposed the wooden ribs and keel of a large old sailing vessel. We happened to be there on vacation just afterwards. The State had posted a warning that the wreck should not be disturbed. It was found to be not a pirate ship laden with gold and treasures (Darn!), but a rum-runner which plied between New England and the Caribbean. It subsequently has been covered up again with sand. Not really relevant, but a little more stimulating for one's fantasies than Magnetite sand deposits! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress > Larry, > Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. > Lets > hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! > > One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that > the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities of > magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine > (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just > the > opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn > over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce > the > layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some > pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is > common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on > the > list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an > opinion? > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Lawrence Rush > wrote: > >> Nate mentioned some good collecting stories. Here is a minor one I >> experienced last week.... >> >> On a warmer (60 degrees F.) day last week, we took a day off from the >> holiday madness and went up to walk the deserted Rhode Island beaches. >> The >> day was cloudy and foggy there, but it was wonderful to walk and explore >> at >> a time when no one else was anywhere to be seen. At one end of the >> Charlestown Beach, near the breachway, the winter storms had winnowed >> great >> strands of Magnetite sand into long surf driven "windrows", several feet >> wide, about six inches deep, and hundreds of yards long. Pure, black, and >> striking. When I dug into it to find the depth, I found a band of Garnet >> just below it, also just as long and wide. Evidently these were separated >> by >> density with the high, strong surf this Fall and Winter. Not really >> unusual, >> but surprising to see so much of the minerals, originally derived from >> the >> New England hard rock highlands, concentrated like that. I have sometimes >> collected Magnetite from beach sands with a magnet, but this time a >> shovel >> would have given me all I could ever hope for. >> >> Just to imagine the time involved to weather out these minerals from the >> granite, many miles away and hundreds of feet higher in altitude, then to >> have them transported by streams (and glaciers), down to the ocean, and >> ground up to be redeposited at my feet is to bring home Geology to be >> seen >> first hand! >> Of course, the quartz beach sand underwent the same process, but we are >> so >> used to seeing that, it doesn't make much of an impression. >> >> Not really a collecting trip, but interesting just the same, in Winter in >> New Engalnd! >> >> Micromounts, anyone?? >> >> Larry >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 4 17:12:30 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 4 17:10:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The sand along Lake Michigan in West Michigan contains magnetite. Wave action concentrates it at the high water reach on the beaches, leaving a black line. Each wave brings sand up with it, but the denser magnetite drops out and stays as the water flows back into the lake under the power of gravity. Kreigh On Sunday, Jan 4, 2009, at 19:33 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Nate: That's an interesting question. I have two thoughts as possible > answers.... > > One....It was the holidays and everything is upside down at that > time....or... > > Maybe the layers were deposited at different times. The first storm > laid down > Magnetite and Garnet in different places, and a subsequent one washed > away the Magnetite to be redeposited on top of the Garnet? > > I don't think there was any overturning where I saw the layers. They > were even and discrete, no interruptions. They were at the higher > portion of the beach, where the wave action had to be stronger than > normal, but nothing really of super strength. > > Are there such layers to be found in the old sedimentary quartzite > deposits? > Is layered granular Magnetite ever an economic deposit in quartzite? I > don't know that I ever saw that in the literature or in the field. > > One other interesting fact about that same area of that beach. Some > years ago, a strong storm washed away a great deal of sand at the > upper levels and exposed the wooden ribs and keel of a large old > sailing vessel. We happened to be there on vacation just afterwards. > The State had posted a warning that the wreck should not be disturbed. > It was found to be not a pirate ship laden with gold and treasures > (Darn!), but a rum-runner which plied between New England and the > Caribbean. It subsequently has been covered up again with sand. > > Not really relevant, but a little more stimulating for one's fantasies > than Magnetite sand deposits! > > Larry > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress > > >> Larry, >> Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have >> had. Lets >> hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! >> >> One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is >> that >> the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative >> densities of >> magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like >> almandine >> (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected >> just the >> opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could >> turn >> over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to >> produce the >> layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have >> some >> pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you >> observed is >> common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else >> on the >> list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an >> opinion? >> >> best regards, >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> >> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Lawrence Rush >> wrote: >> >>> Nate mentioned some good collecting stories. Here is a minor one I >>> experienced last week.... >>> >>> On a warmer (60 degrees F.) day last week, we took a day off from the >>> holiday madness and went up to walk the deserted Rhode Island >>> beaches. The >>> day was cloudy and foggy there, but it was wonderful to walk and >>> explore at >>> a time when no one else was anywhere to be seen. At one end of the >>> Charlestown Beach, near the breachway, the winter storms had >>> winnowed great >>> strands of Magnetite sand into long surf driven "windrows", several >>> feet >>> wide, about six inches deep, and hundreds of yards long. Pure, >>> black, and >>> striking. When I dug into it to find the depth, I found a band of >>> Garnet >>> just below it, also just as long and wide. Evidently these were >>> separated by >>> density with the high, strong surf this Fall and Winter. Not really >>> unusual, >>> but surprising to see so much of the minerals, originally derived >>> from the >>> New England hard rock highlands, concentrated like that. I have >>> sometimes >>> collected Magnetite from beach sands with a magnet, but this time a >>> shovel >>> would have given me all I could ever hope for. >>> >>> Just to imagine the time involved to weather out these minerals from >>> the >>> granite, many miles away and hundreds of feet higher in altitude, >>> then to >>> have them transported by streams (and glaciers), down to the ocean, >>> and >>> ground up to be redeposited at my feet is to bring home Geology to >>> be seen >>> first hand! >>> Of course, the quartz beach sand underwent the same process, but we >>> are so >>> used to seeing that, it doesn't make much of an impression. >>> >>> Not really a collecting trip, but interesting just the same, in >>> Winter in >>> New Engalnd! >>> >>> Micromounts, anyone?? >>> >>> Larry >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Jan 4 18:04:27 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sun Jan 4 18:04:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> Message-ID: I've seen similar concentrates on Great Lakes beaches, but I don't remember ever seeing that the garnet and magnetite were layered, one above the other. In addition to possible grain size differences, is it possible that there are differences in affinity for water (hydrophilicity?) that might cause the magnetite to tend to float over the garnet, in spite of specific gravity differences? Though I know little about it, differential flotation is a feature often used in recovering desired minerals from crushed rock. Regards, Pete Richards On Jan 4, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > Nathan Martin wrote: >> Larry, >> Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have >> had. Lets >> hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! >> >> One of the things that I find interesting about your observations >> is that >> the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative >> densities of >> magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like >> almandine >> (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected >> just the >> opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action >> could turn >> over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to >> produce the >> layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can >> have some >> pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you >> observed is >> common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone >> else on the >> list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture >> an opinion? >> >> > Not a sand collector, but could it be a safe venture to make a > statement that rocks float?? Most farmers know this and dont > realize it. > I suspect that it is more likely that the garnet was able to be > worn and fragmented to a smaller size than the magnetite and so, > the smaller particles sink and the larger particles float. Try it > some time on your vibratory lap unit. fill a mason jar full of > various size grains/pebbles, chips, and invariably, after a long > period of time the big ones,,,,,, wind up on top > Dennis Buffenmyer > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 18:42:06 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Jan 4 18:42:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> Message-ID: Pete, et al I did a quick search on "magnetite flotation" and came up with a number of hits that were suggestive however most of the references did not permit articles to be downloaded so only brief snippets could be viewed. Froth flotation methods were mentioned several times and it makes me wonder if the natural froth generated by heavy wave action might preferentially bind to magnetite and enable it to float. Various polymeric or other chemical additives also seem to be important in flotation mineral processing applications. It makes me wonder what the effect might be of various impurities in the water near the RI beach that Larry visited. Isn't it amazing where a simple observation can lead? I'll bet someone on the list has some experience in flotation methods and can give us some insight. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:04 PM, R. Peter Richards wrote: > I've seen similar concentrates on Great Lakes beaches, but I don't remember > ever seeing that the garnet and magnetite were layered, one above the other. > In addition to possible grain size differences, is it possible that there > are differences in affinity for water (hydrophilicity?) that might cause the > magnetite to tend to float over the garnet, in spite of specific gravity > differences? Though I know little about it, differential flotation is a > feature often used in recovering desired minerals from crushed rock. > > Regards, > Pete Richards > > > > On Jan 4, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > > Nathan Martin wrote: >> >>> Larry, >>> Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. >>> Lets >>> hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! >>> >>> One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that >>> the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities >>> of >>> magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine >>> (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just >>> the >>> opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn >>> over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce >>> the >>> layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some >>> pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is >>> common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on >>> the >>> list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an >>> opinion? >>> >>> >>> Not a sand collector, but could it be a safe venture to make a statement >> that rocks float?? Most farmers know this and dont realize it. >> I suspect that it is more likely that the garnet was able to be worn and >> fragmented to a smaller size than the magnetite and so, the smaller >> particles sink and the larger particles float. Try it some time on your >> vibratory lap unit. fill a mason jar full of various size grains/pebbles, >> chips, and invariably, after a long period of time the big ones,,,,,, wind >> up on top >> Dennis Buffenmyer >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Jan 4 18:49:13 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sun Jan 4 18:49:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> Message-ID: <7FD2194E-7AC8-46A3-8FD3-595546F6DEC7@heidelberg.edu> Clearly it's due to polluted water. Quick, somebody call EPA!!! Or not. Pete Richards On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:42 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > Pete, et al > I did a quick search on "magnetite flotation" and came up with a > number of > hits that were suggestive however most of the references did not > permit > articles to be downloaded so only brief snippets could be viewed. > Froth > flotation methods were mentioned several times and it makes me > wonder if the > natural froth generated by heavy wave action might preferentially > bind to > magnetite and enable it to float. Various polymeric or other chemical > additives also seem to be important in flotation mineral processing > applications. It makes me wonder what the effect might be of various > impurities in the water near the RI beach that Larry visited. > > Isn't it amazing where a simple observation can lead? I'll bet > someone on > the list has some experience in flotation methods and can give us some > insight. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:04 PM, R. Peter Richards > wrote: > >> I've seen similar concentrates on Great Lakes beaches, but I don't >> remember >> ever seeing that the garnet and magnetite were layered, one above >> the other. >> In addition to possible grain size differences, is it possible >> that there >> are differences in affinity for water (hydrophilicity?) that might >> cause the >> magnetite to tend to float over the garnet, in spite of specific >> gravity >> differences? Though I know little about it, differential >> flotation is a >> feature often used in recovering desired minerals from crushed rock. >> >> Regards, >> Pete Richards >> >> >> >> On Jan 4, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: >> >> Nathan Martin wrote: >>> >>>> Larry, >>>> Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we >>>> have had. >>>> Lets >>>> hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! >>>> >>>> One of the things that I find interesting about your >>>> observations is that >>>> the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative >>>> densities >>>> of >>>> magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like >>>> almandine >>>> (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have >>>> expected just >>>> the >>>> opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action >>>> could turn >>>> over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to >>>> produce >>>> the >>>> layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can >>>> have some >>>> pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you >>>> observed is >>>> common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone >>>> else on >>>> the >>>> list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an >>>> opinion? >>>> >>>> >>>> Not a sand collector, but could it be a safe venture to make a >>>> statement >>> that rocks float?? Most farmers know this and dont realize it. >>> I suspect that it is more likely that the garnet was able to be >>> worn and >>> fragmented to a smaller size than the magnetite and so, the smaller >>> particles sink and the larger particles float. Try it some time >>> on your >>> vibratory lap unit. fill a mason jar full of various size grains/ >>> pebbles, >>> chips, and invariably, after a long period of time the big >>> ones,,,,,, wind >>> up on top >>> Dennis Buffenmyer >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> ___________________________________ >> R. Peter Richards >> rpr@heidelberg.edu >> Morphological crystallographer >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 4 19:01:24 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 4 19:01:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2376001C-DAD5-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> The layers were obviously deposited in sequence, not at the same time. IIRC, the original report talked about six inch layers. As an example, suppose the wind were from the north-east and was bringing in garnet sand, and then switched to the south-east to bring in magnetite sands. All that would be necessary is for the collection point to be between two rivers that come from different eroded rock to produce garnet concentrates at one side, and magnetite concentrates at the other. Geology in action indeed. I've got a specimen of sand/silt stone clearly showing ripple marks on the surface. It is a fossil of an ancient beach or lake bottom near a shoreline. I collected it along Lake Superior. What makes it interesting is that it has an inch and a half pebble sticking up out of the face. The pebble is a fossil of newer erosion than that which produced the sand it was imbedded in. It is from study of such sediments that geologists can deduce ancient mountain ranges and deposits that no longer exist. Seeing geology in action today makes it easier to understand the clues we find in the rock formations we visit. Kreigh On Sunday, Jan 4, 2009, at 21:04 America/Detroit, R. Peter Richards wrote: > I've seen similar concentrates on Great Lakes beaches, but I don't > remember ever seeing that the garnet and magnetite were layered, one > above the other. In addition to possible grain size differences, is > it possible that there are differences in affinity for water > (hydrophilicity?) that might cause the magnetite to tend to float over > the garnet, in spite of specific gravity differences? Though I know > little about it, differential flotation is a feature often used in > recovering desired minerals from crushed rock. > > Regards, > Pete Richards > > > On Jan 4, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > >> Nathan Martin wrote: >>> Larry, >>> Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have >>> had. Lets >>> hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! >>> >>> One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is >>> that >>> the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative >>> densities of >>> magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like >>> almandine >>> (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected >>> just the >>> opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could >>> turn >>> over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to >>> produce the >>> layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have >>> some >>> pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you >>> observed is >>> common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone >>> else on the >>> list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an >>> opinion? >>> >>> >> Not a sand collector, but could it be a safe venture to make a >> statement that rocks float?? Most farmers know this and dont realize >> it. >> I suspect that it is more likely that the garnet was able to be worn >> and fragmented to a smaller size than the magnetite and so, the >> smaller particles sink and the larger particles float. Try it some >> time on your vibratory lap unit. fill a mason jar full of various >> size grains/pebbles, chips, and invariably, after a long period of >> time the big ones,,,,,, wind up on top >> Dennis Buffenmyer >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From cornish at tfon.com Sun Jan 4 19:17:21 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 4 19:17:46 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics Message-ID: Hi Everyone and Happy New Year! I've very much enjoyed many of the recent posts here and just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time. The Snowbird presentation was great Nathan! All the very best, take care John PS, here is my most recent paper, I hope you all enjoy! 1/3/2009 Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics By John Cornish cornish@tfon.com Hi All, For over sixteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 1000 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last years collecting, 2008, and have included them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more then any other I hope that you'll consider starting a Field Collecting Journal of your own. As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to collect! As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! Happy New Year, John 2008 Collecting Statistics 30 Trips/Localities visited total 12 different Localities ---- 9 Minerals, 3 Fossils Most Frequented Locality ----- (a fossil locality) 5 trips New Mineral Localities ---- 1 (in Nevada) Shows I participated in --- 5 Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah Longest Trip ---- 48 days Journal pages recorded --- 81 Papers written --- 14 Have a great year everyone and all the very best, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Jan 4 21:53:25 2009 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Sun Jan 4 21:53:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4961A055.3020405@hal-pc.org> Nathan Martin wrote: > Larry, > Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. Lets > hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! > > One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that > the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities of > magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine > (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just the > opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn > over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce the > layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some > pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is > common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on the > list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an opinion? > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > It's likely the the black sand is not 100% magnetite, but has a considerable quantity of ilmenite mixed in. The lesser density of ilmenite often makes "black sands" somewhat lighter in wave action. Also, grain size has a lot to do with distribution. Smaller grain sizes will end up on top of quartz sands even though they may be of a little greater density. I should think that the only true density distribution in a column would be settling in a calm water ignoring surface tension. john From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Jan 5 06:28:51 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Jan 5 06:28:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> Message-ID: <84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> Hi Nate, I'm just now getting caught up on a week's worth of e-mail messages and ran across yours on flotation methods. I don't have anything to add right now on the commercial aspects of this process, but if you'd like to demonstrate it in your own home it's easy to do. Just get some seltzer water, some peanuts, and some raisins. If you put peanuts and raisins in plain water you'll see they both sink -- both are denser than water. But if you place them in seltzer water you'll find that air bubbles adhere to one and not the other, so you'll get a neat separation. I forget whether it's the peanuts or the raisins that float, but it's a simple and effective classroom demo to use to illustrate the process. The beauty of such flotation methods is that you don't have to use heavy liquids for mineral separations -- those liquids (bromoform, Clerici solution, etc.) aren't the most user-friendly chemicals in the lab. Instead you can use a liquid that is less dense than any of the minerals you hope to separate, but with the proper additives one will float and the others sink. Cheers- Earl Verbeek On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:42:06 -0500, wrote: > Pete, et al > I did a quick search on "magnetite flotation" and came up with a number of > hits that were suggestive however most of the references did not permit > articles to be downloaded so only brief snippets could be viewed. Froth > flotation methods were mentioned several times and it makes me wonder if > the > natural froth generated by heavy wave action might preferentially bind to > magnetite and enable it to float. Various polymeric or other chemical > additives also seem to be important in flotation mineral processing > applications. It makes me wonder what the effect might be of various > impurities in the water near the RI beach that Larry visited. > > Isn't it amazing where a simple observation can lead? I'll bet someone on > the list has some experience in flotation methods and can give us some > insight. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Jan 5 06:36:28 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Jan 5 06:36:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <567d4e89afdbd50625d4f6346b248762@ptd.net> Hi Larry, Great story about that magnetite sand you found concentrated on the beach. Thomas Edison in the 1880s had a similar experience -- while strolling along a beach he saw great quantities of magnetite sand and thought "Here is a great iron ore, already mined and crushed, ready for the taking." He sent out his land men to secure rights to mine the sand and soon had acquired most of the properties he wanted. And then a storm washed it all out to sea again. Here's what he wrote, in a December 19, 1881 article in the Sussex Independent (that's Sussex County, New Jersey): "Nine years ago I erected a plant for working sands which were more or less impregnated with iron on the coast of Rhode Island and Long Island, but the result was a failure for two reasons: First I found the furnace-men were not educated to using fine ore, and second the deposits were dependent upon the storms and would sometimes go out to sea, and remain there for three months. It was too much like taking out a mortgage on a school of herring." Cheers- Earl Verbeek On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:33:45 -0500, wrote: > Nate: That's an interesting question. I have two thoughts as possible > answers.... > > One....It was the holidays and everything is upside down at that > time....or... > > Maybe the layers were deposited at different times. The first storm laid > down > Magnetite and Garnet in different places, and a subsequent one washed away > > the Magnetite to be redeposited on top of the Garnet? > > I don't think there was any overturning where I saw the layers. They were > even and discrete, no interruptions. They were at the higher portion of > the > beach, where the wave action had to be stronger than normal, but nothing > really of super strength. > > Are there such layers to be found in the old sedimentary quartzite > deposits? > Is layered granular Magnetite ever an economic deposit in quartzite? I > don't > know that I ever saw that in the literature or in the field. > > One other interesting fact about that same area of that beach. Some years > ago, a strong storm washed away a great deal of sand at the upper levels > and > exposed the wooden ribs and keel of a large old sailing vessel. We > happened > to be there on vacation just afterwards. The State had posted a warning > that > the wreck should not be disturbed. It was found to be not a pirate ship > laden with gold and treasures (Darn!), but a rum-runner which plied > between > New England and the Caribbean. It subsequently has been covered up again > with sand. > > Not really relevant, but a little more stimulating for one's fantasies > than > Magnetite sand deposits! > > Larry > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 5 07:05:13 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jan 5 07:08:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> <84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> Message-ID: <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> Thank you Earl! Great answer! Logical and good science! Am I am happy to think that water pollution is NOT responsible! These are the best beaches in New England, with uncommonly clean surf and sand, a pleasure to visit and swim (and collect Magnetite) in! Thanks to all! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress > Hi Nate, > > I'm just now getting caught up on a week's worth of e-mail messages and > ran > across yours on flotation methods. I don't have anything to add right now > on the commercial aspects of this process, but if you'd like to > demonstrate > it in your own home it's easy to do. Just get some seltzer water, some > peanuts, and some raisins. If you put peanuts and raisins in plain water > you'll see they both sink -- both are denser than water. But if you place > them in seltzer water you'll find that air bubbles adhere to one and not > the other, so you'll get a neat separation. I forget whether it's the > peanuts or the raisins that float, but it's a simple and effective > classroom demo to use to illustrate the process. > > The beauty of such flotation methods is that you don't have to use heavy > liquids for mineral separations -- those liquids (bromoform, Clerici > solution, etc.) aren't the most user-friendly chemicals in the lab. > Instead you can use a liquid that is less dense than any of the minerals > you hope to separate, but with the proper additives one will float and the > others sink. > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:42:06 -0500, wrote: >> Pete, et al >> I did a quick search on "magnetite flotation" and came up with a number > of >> hits that were suggestive however most of the references did not permit >> articles to be downloaded so only brief snippets could be viewed. Froth >> flotation methods were mentioned several times and it makes me wonder if >> the >> natural froth generated by heavy wave action might preferentially bind to >> magnetite and enable it to float. Various polymeric or other chemical >> additives also seem to be important in flotation mineral processing >> applications. It makes me wonder what the effect might be of various >> impurities in the water near the RI beach that Larry visited. >> >> Isn't it amazing where a simple observation can lead? I'll bet someone > on >> the list has some experience in flotation methods and can give us some >> insight. >> >> best regards, >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 07:33:36 2009 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 5 07:33:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! In-Reply-To: <972085.29301.qm@web57703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54271.42128.qm@web110804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Cheri, There are also small geodes to be found at Wickenburg. Go east off the highway on Constellation Road. (It's at a McDonald's or Burger King, can't remember which). About a half mile in, there's a hill on the left. Climb it. The geodes are up near the top. Jim Daly --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Cheri Moody wrote: From: Cheri Moody Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:32 AM Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to be a part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to find?Turquoise. A quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Nathan Martin To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions Hi Cheri, Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and month to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about our hobby. You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member of that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you choose to apply.? Its a great hobby. best regards, Nate martin Lexington, MA On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody wrote: > Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This > group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology > group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in > Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, > Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of > you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. > > Cheri Moody > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Scott & Meesha Blair > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > That's good stuff Larry: > > I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have such > widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral specimens > (smiles) > > I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt > into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get past the > pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and begin > the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year old > grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and > continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. > > In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still not > fully recovered! > > Warm Regards - Scott Blair > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < > larryrush@worldnet.att.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > > > >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a > hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken > femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites > from that site) > > -- _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative >? text/plain (text body -- kept) >? text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative ? text/plain (text body -- kept) ? text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 5 08:48:09 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 5 08:48:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <567d4e89afdbd50625d4f6346b248762@ptd.net> References: <567d4e89afdbd50625d4f6346b248762@ptd.net> Message-ID: <056794FCF23641A3999775569CC46FDC@AXELDESKTOP> Earl wrote >It was too much like taking out a mortgage on a school of herring." [Axel] I had no idea that it took a degree to be a herring. I once heard that sending fish to an exclusive and expensive private school of herring could turn them into turbot... Any truth in that? ;-)))) Seriously, could a vertical upward flow of water be used to separate different minerals according to size or smoothness? Or separate grains of minerals from the gangue? Perhaps this has been suggested already but I' ve been too busy to do much rockhounds debating the last week ;-) Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 5 10:02:11 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:02:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals in motion Message-ID: Hello people, I had quite some fun today while looking at the news. A thin layer of the mineral called ice has been deposited over Belgium last night. In the form of snow. About 3 cm of it. The result was quite hilarious. Our country is 330 Km, measured at its longest dimension. We had a grand total of 450 km of traffic pile-up. Trains and busses were more than 1 hour late. It makes me think what would happen if we had the same snowfall in Belgium as you guys had in some parts of the US. I guess you'd have to come and shovel us out ;-))) This night the predictions are: -14 C. If we don't make it, carry on without us. It was good knowing you (LOL) Cheers Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at copper.net Mon Jan 5 10:11:42 2009 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:11:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! In-Reply-To: <54271.42128.qm@web110804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <972085.29301.qm@web57703.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <54271.42128.qm@web110804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:33:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly wrote: >Cheri, >There are also small geodes to be found at Wickenburg. Go east off the highway on Constellation Road. (It's at a McDonald's or Burger King, can't remember which). About a half mile in, there's a hill on the left. Climb it. The geodes are up near the top. McDonalds. Take the road between Subway and McDonald's. It's actually Jack Burden Road, but runs into Constellation almost immediately. >Jim Daly > >--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Cheri Moody wrote: > >From: Cheri Moody >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:32 AM > >Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to be a >part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? >We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to find?Turquoise. A >quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and >possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. >? >Cheri Moody? > > > > >________________________________ >From: Nathan Martin >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > >Hi Cheri, >Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all >over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually >provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the >real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia >has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks >and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. > >By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list >are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and >geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find >discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and month >to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have >found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about our >hobby. > >You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, >LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member of >that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a >year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) > >Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you choose >to >apply.? Its a great hobby. > >best regards, >Nate martin >Lexington, MA > >On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody >wrote: > >> Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This >> group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology >> group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in >> Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, >> Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of >> you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. >> >> Cheri Moody >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Scott & Meesha Blair >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >> That's good stuff Larry: >> >> I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have >such >> widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral >specimens >> (smiles) >> >> I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt >> into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get >past the >> pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and >begin >> the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year >old >> grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and >> continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. >> >> In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still >not >> fully recovered! >> >> Warm Regards - Scott Blair >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < >> larryrush@worldnet.att.net> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >> >> >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a >> hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken >> femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites >> from that site) >> >> -- _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative >? text/plain (text body -- kept) >? text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rocknate at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 15:18:56 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Mon Jan 5 15:19:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] free download of Zeolites of the World Message-ID: Hello list members, I have recently learned that mindat has been authorized by Rudy Tschernich to distribute a scanned version of his book, *Zeolites of the World* for free. Even if you have previously downloaded it the current version apparently has updated some missing pages. The mindat url with the explanation and download link is at http://www.mindat.org/article.php/507/Mindat%27s+15th+Birthday+and+a+present+for+everyone Note that it is a large pdf file so you may not want to try to download it if you are on a dialup connection. Enjoy, Nate Martin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 16:00:10 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:00:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831c9ad10901051600o51baf2cfl3acc7afd74b7b035@mail.gmail.com> Howdy John! Happy New Year! Thanks for the stats on your collecting year. You've wet my whistle for more detail, and I hope that you'll post all of those 13 other papers AND your collecting journal, or give us a link to the site/s upon which we can read them. FYI, I'm one of those die hard, field time deprived rockhounds who rely on well published collectors such as yourself to keep us from taking our rock picks to our garage foundations! Personally, after all of the years that I've spent reading articles in 50+ years of Rock & Gem, Rocks & Minerals, Lapidary Journal, etc. I still find myself pawing through my (ever growing) library looking for that one long lost issue that I've not read 10 times! *grin!* So, perhaps you'll be kind to me, and post links where your papers and journals can be found. I know that modesty might make you reticent to "toot you own horn," but those of us who are more home bound truly appreciate the chance to vicariously enjoy your journeys, and see these places through your sage eyes. My Google search of your name led me to realize that, if you're the John Cornish I hope you are, you've seen and done collecting and mining of which I've read of for years. You've lain your eyes, picks and shovel on sights of which I can only dream. Whether or not you like it, you're one of those "Lucky Guys." You're one of those guys who've inspired my own dreams, and kept me from quitting when life became too impossible. You're one of the fellows who kept me always looking to the hills, and dreaming of what might await me beneath them. You are, like Sinkankas, Pough & Desautels, like Kunz & Ream, Rose & Jones, one of my heroes. You're one of those guys who've not given up, not given in, and who've triumphed when others quit. Memories of the tales of the Bunker Hill mine and other great and storied sites with names like Oxford, Mt. Mica, and Bisbee fill the heads and hearts of we who read of your exploits. The years may pass, the specimens fly from our hands, and our heroes may fall, but those accounts continue to inspire those of us who aren't amongst "the Lucky Guys." So, please accept my heartfelt thanks for the efforts you've made, the pictures and accounts you've given us, amd most of all, for never giving up. I may not have the resources to own one of your specimens, but I can own your words and pictures, and visit the vugs, open cuts and tunnels in my dreams, and through your kind and colorful accounts. Be Well, Sir! Kris Lapidary Specialteis Fresno, California, U.S.A.On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 7:17 PM, John Cornish wrote: > > > Hi Everyone and Happy New Year! I've very much enjoyed many of the recent > posts here and just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time. > > > > The Snowbird presentation was great Nathan! > > > > All the very best, take care > > > > John > > > > PS, here is my most recent paper, I hope you all enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > 1/3/2009 > > Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics > > > > By John Cornish > cornish@tfon.com > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > For over sixteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which > documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. > Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 1000 pages > of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last > years collecting, 2008, and have included them following if you've an > interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles > and for this reason more then any other I hope that you'll consider starting > a Field Collecting Journal of your own. > > > > As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we > risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting > moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next > followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, > I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to > my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other > collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. > No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start > it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out > and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local > Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my > thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons for > starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). Following this I > summed up some of the highlights from past collecting trips and then I was > ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I > needed, I headed out to collect! > > > > As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my > lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! > As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just > try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious > benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who > need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments and > the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate our > collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our collections > attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our > specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace > in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often > replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! > > > > These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path > may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > John > > > > 2008 Collecting Statistics > > > > 30 Trips/Localities visited total > > > > 12 different Localities ---- 9 Minerals, 3 Fossils > > > > Most Frequented Locality ----- (a fossil locality) 5 trips > > New Mineral Localities ---- 1 (in Nevada) > > > > Shows I participated in --- 5 > > > Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, > Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah > > > > Longest Trip ---- 48 days > > > > Journal pages recorded --- 81 > > > > Papers written --- 14 > > > > Have a great year everyone and all the very best, > > John > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 5 16:44:04 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:43:36 2009 Subject: Elutriation {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Off Topic Geology in Progress} In-Reply-To: <056794FCF23641A3999775569CC46FDC@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <1E4BB38A-DB8B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, Using a vertical upward flow of water to sort things is called elutriation. It can be used to sort by density, even if the material is of different sizes. If the material is roughly the same density, it can be used to sort by size. I use it to recycle tumbling grits. It is also quite useful for gold mining. Kreigh On Monday, Jan 5, 2009, at 11:48 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Seriously, could a vertical upward flow of water be used to separate > different minerals according to size or smoothness? > Or separate grains of minerals from the gangue? > > Perhaps this has been suggested already but I' ve been too busy to do > much > rockhounds debating the last week ;-) > > Cheers > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Jan 5 20:14:39 2009 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Mon Jan 5 20:14:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4962DAAF.8020707@hal-pc.org> Nathan Martin wrote: > Larry, > Seems as if you made good use of one of the few mild days we have had. Lets > hope that we get more of that "beach weather" soon! > > One of the things that I find interesting about your observations is that > the magnetite was on top of the garnet. Based on the relative densities of > magnetite (~5.15 gm/cm^3) and typical New England garnets like almandine > (~4.2 gm/cm^3) or grossular (~3.6 gm/cm^3) , I would have expected just the > opposite. I wonder if it is possible that strong wave action could turn > over a density-stratified layer of sand, garnet and magnetite to produce the > layering that you saw? I know that bulk granular materials can have some > pretty unusual properties but I don't really know if what you observed is > common. It may be a really unusual occurrence. Perhaps someone else on the > list can comment. Any sand collectors out there care to venture an opinion? > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > It's likely the the black sand is not 100% magnetite, but has a considerable quantity of ilmenite mixed in. The lesser density of ilmenite often makes "black sands" somewhat lighter in wave action. Also, grain size has a lot to do with distribution. Smaller grain sizes will end up on top of quartz sands even though they may be of a little greater density. I should think that the only true density distribution in a column would be settling in a calm water ignoring surface tension. john From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 07:29:36 2009 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Jan 6 07:29:41 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <748367.29663.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Al, That's it exactly! Thanks for filling in the gaps in my memory. Jim --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Al Balmer wrote: From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! To: sauktown1@yahoo.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:11 AM On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:33:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly wrote: >Cheri, >There are also small geodes to be found at Wickenburg. Go east off the highway on Constellation Road. (It's at a McDonald's or Burger King, can't remember which). About a half mile in, there's a hill on the left. Climb it. The geodes are up near the top. McDonalds. Take the road between Subway and McDonald's. It's actually Jack Burden Road, but runs into Constellation almost immediately. >Jim Daly > >--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Cheri Moody wrote: > >From: Cheri Moody >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:32 AM > >Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to be a >part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? >We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to find?Turquoise. A >quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and >possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. >? >Cheri Moody? > > > > >________________________________ >From: Nathan Martin >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions > >Hi Cheri, >Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all >over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually >provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the >real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia >has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks >and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. > >By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list >are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and >geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find >discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and month >to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have >found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about our >hobby. > >You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, >LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member of >that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a >year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) > >Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you choose >to >apply.? Its a great hobby. > >best regards, >Nate martin >Lexington, MA > >On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody >wrote: > >> Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 years)....This >> group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious geology >> group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in >> Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, Oregon, >> Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any of >> you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. >> >> Cheri Moody >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Scott & Meesha Blair >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >> That's good stuff Larry: >> >> I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers have >such >> widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral >specimens >> (smiles) >> >> I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of basalt >> into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to get >past the >> pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and >begin >> the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 year >old >> grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and >> continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. >> >> In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has still >not >> fully recovered! >> >> Warm Regards - Scott Blair >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < >> larryrush@worldnet.att.net> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >> >> >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar as a >> hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- broken >> femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new calcites >> from that site) >> >> -- _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative >? text/plain (text body -- kept) >? text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 6 08:16:10 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jan 6 08:19:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> Message-ID: <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> The Celestite Sale- A Puzzle Last year, I was selling minerals at a Connecticut show, when a small family stopped by to look at my booth. The young boy, maybe nine or ten years old, was immediately taken by the electric blue color of a Madagascar Celestite I had for sale for $30. He couldn?t take his eyes off of it, and started pestering his mother and father to buy it for him. Evidently he had been given $10 to spend at the show, but this far exceeded that. Finally, after a long period of pleading, his mother told the father that, if they each would chip in $10, he could buy it, and their contribution would count towards his birthday present, a few weeks away. This proved agreeable, they paid me the $30, and I wrapped up the specimen, to be proudly carried away by the youngster. A few minutes later, my wife returned from wandering, and I told her about the boy and the sale. She reminded me that the Celestite was marked as ?on sale?, for $25! She looked around, and saw the family not far away. I gave her five $1 bills to take to them, and off she went. However, on the way there, she stopped and bought a large soda, spending 2 of the 5 one dollar bills. So when she caught up with the family, she gave them only $3 as a refund, explaining that they had paid too much. The mother thanked my wife, took the three $1 bills, and gave one each to herself, her husband, and her son. This means that they each paid $9 for the Celestite, or a total of $27. If you add in the $2 she spent on the soda, the total came to $29. What happened to the other dollar???? Larry Rush (Please do not copy without permission) From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 08:32:06 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Jan 6 08:32:09 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle In-Reply-To: <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> <84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> Message-ID: Larry, A nice puzzle, it took a bit of thinking to get past the logical inconsistency. it is correct that they ended up paying $27 of which you kept $25 and your wife spent $2. The original $30 amount was no longer relevant. Keep up the good work! Our brains (like our bodies) are in need of exercise. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > The Celestite Sale- A Puzzle > > > > Last year, I was selling minerals at a Connecticut show, when a small > family stopped by to look at my booth. The young boy, maybe nine or ten > years old, was immediately taken by the electric blue color of a Madagascar > Celestite I had for sale for $30. He couldn't take his eyes off of it, and > started pestering his mother and father to buy it for him. Evidently he had > been given $10 to spend at the show, but this far exceeded that. Finally, > after a long period of pleading, his mother told the father that, if they > each would chip in $10, he could buy it, and their contribution would count > towards his birthday present, a few weeks away. This proved agreeable, they > paid me the $30, and I wrapped up the specimen, to be proudly carried away > by the youngster. > > > > A few minutes later, my wife returned from wandering, and I told her about > the boy and the sale. She reminded me that the Celestite was marked as "on > sale", for $25! She looked around, and saw the family not far away. I gave > her five $1 bills to take to them, and off she went. However, on the way > there, she stopped and bought a large soda, spending 2 of the 5 one dollar > bills. So when she caught up with the family, she gave them only $3 as a > refund, explaining that they had paid too much. > > > > The mother thanked my wife, took the three $1 bills, and gave one each to > herself, her husband, and her son. > > > > This means that they each paid $9 for the Celestite, or a total of $27. If > you add in the $2 she spent on the soda, the total came to $29. > > > > What happened to the other dollar???? > > > > > > Larry Rush > > > > (Please do not copy without permission) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 08:32:28 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Jan 6 08:32:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle Message-ID: <485808.83396.qm@web83501.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Larry, I guess I don't understand your question, because there is no "other dollar", You might be just looking at the numbers wrong. You're right saying that they each paid 9 dollars each totaling $27, but you would not add $2 for the soda to that. The net charge for the celestite was $25 and they also in effect covered the cost of your wife's soda for $2 totaling the $29 that they paid. It's correct as is. Ron ________________________________ From: Lawrence Rush To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:16:10 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle The Celestite Sale- A Puzzle Last year, I was selling minerals at a Connecticut show, when a small family stopped by to look at my booth. The young boy, maybe nine or ten years old, was immediately taken by the electric blue color of a Madagascar Celestite I had for sale for $30. He couldn?t take his eyes off of it, and started pestering his mother and father to buy it for him. Evidently he had been given $10 to spend at the show, but this far exceeded that. Finally, after a long period of pleading, his mother told the father that, if they each would chip in $10, he could buy it, and their contribution would count towards his birthday present, a few weeks away. This proved agreeable, they paid me the $30, and I wrapped up the specimen, to be proudly carried away by the youngster. A few minutes later, my wife returned from wandering, and I told her about the boy and the sale. She reminded me that the Celestite was marked as ?on sale?, for $25! She looked around, and saw the family not far away. I gave her five $1 bills to take to them, and off she went. However, on the way there, she stopped and bought a large soda, spending 2 of the 5 one dollar bills. So when she caught up with the family, she gave them only $3 as a refund, explaining that they had paid too much. The mother thanked my wife, took the three $1 bills, and gave one each to herself, her husband, and her son. This means that they each paid $9 for the Celestite, or a total of $27. If you add in the $2 she spent on the soda, the total came to $29. What happened to the other dollar???? Larry Rush (Please do not copy without permission) -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 08:59:26 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 08:59:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle In-Reply-To: <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> That was really cute, Larry, thanks.? I had to read through & think about it 2 or 3 times (or maybe 4) before I figured out how to resolve the paradox. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:16 am Subject: [Rockhounds] A Mineral Puzzle The Celestite Sale- A Puzzle? ? ? Last year, I was selling minerals at a Connecticut show, when a small family stopped by to look at my booth. The young boy, maybe nine or ten years old, was immediately taken by the electric blue color of a Madagascar Celestite I had for sale for $30. He couldn?t take his eyes off of it, and started pestering his mother and father to buy it for him. Evidently he had been given $10 to spend at the show, but this far exceeded that. Finally, after a long period of pleading, his mother told the father that, if they each would chip in $10, he could buy it, and their contribution would count towards his birthday present, a few weeks away. This proved agreeable, they paid me the $30, and I wrapped up the specimen, to be proudly carried away by the youngster.? ? ? A few minutes later, my wife returned from wandering, and I told her about the boy and the sale. She reminded me that the Celestite was marked as ?on sale?, for $25! She looked around, and saw the family not far away. I gave her five $1 bills to t ake to them, and off she went. However, on the way there, she stopped and bought a large soda, spending 2 of the 5 one dollar bills. So when she caught up with the family, she gave them only $3 as a refund, explaining that they had paid too much.? ? ? The mother thanked my wife, took the three $1 bills, and gave one each to herself, her husband, and her son.? ? ? This means that they each paid $9 for the Celestite, or a total of $27. If you add in the $2 she spent on the soda, the total came to $29.? ? ? What happened to the other dollar????? ? ? ? Larry Rush? ? ? (Please do not copy without permission)? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at copper.net Tue Jan 6 09:19:17 2009 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:19:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! In-Reply-To: <748367.29663.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <748367.29663.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9j47m4ps1eusdf5n5a6bi18ah8a7fdvgcn@4ax.com> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:29:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly wrote: >Al, >That's it exactly! Thanks for filling in the gaps in my memory. >Jim Thank you! I didn't know about the geodes :-) > >--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Al Balmer wrote: > >From: Al Balmer >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >To: sauktown1@yahoo.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:11 AM > >On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:33:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly > wrote: > >>Cheri, >>There are also small geodes to be found at Wickenburg. Go east off the >highway on Constellation Road. (It's at a McDonald's or Burger King, >can't remember which). About a half mile in, there's a hill on the left. >Climb it. The geodes are up near the top. > >McDonalds. Take the road between Subway and McDonald's. It's actually >Jack Burden Road, but runs into Constellation almost immediately. > >>Jim Daly >> >>--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Cheri Moody wrote: >> >>From: Cheri Moody >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >>Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:32 AM >> >>Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to >be a >>part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? >>We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to >find?Turquoise. A >>quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and >>possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. >>? >>Cheri Moody? >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: Nathan Martin >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >>Hi Cheri, >>Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all >>over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually >>provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the >>real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia >>has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks >>and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. >> >>By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list >>are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and >>geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find >>discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and >month >>to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have >>found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about >our >>hobby. >> >>You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, >>LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member >of >>that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a >>year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) >> >>Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you >choose >>to >>apply.? Its a great hobby. >> >>best regards, >>Nate martin >>Lexington, MA >> >>On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody >>wrote: >> >>> Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 >years)....This >>> group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious >geology >>> group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in >>> Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, >Oregon, >>> Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any >of >>> you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. >>> >>> Cheri Moody >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Scott & Meesha Blair >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" < >>> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >>> >>> That's good stuff Larry: >>> >>> I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers >have >>such >>> widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral >>specimens >>> (smiles) >>> >>> I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of >basalt >>> into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to >get >>past the >>> pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and >>begin >>> the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 >year >>old >>> grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and >>> continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. >>> >>> In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has >still >>not >>> fully recovered! >>> >>> Warm Regards - Scott Blair >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < >>> larryrush@worldnet.att.net> >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" < >>> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >>> >>> >>> >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar >as a >>> hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- >broken >>> femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new >calcites >>> from that site) >>> >>> -- _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>>? text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 09:20:03 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:20:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Back to the beach sand puzzle... After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite, not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two pictures of that beach and the black sand layer: http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite, somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some trapezohedral garnet.???? :? ) There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But it does all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.) I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in the sand, and try to post those online too. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 8:05 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Thank you Earl! Great answer! Logical and good science! Am I am happy to think that water pollution is NOT responsible! These are the best beaches in New England, with uncommonly clean surf and sand, a pleasure to visit and swim (and collect Magnetite) in!? ? Thanks to all!? ? Larry? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Jan 6 09:36:05 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:36:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <49639685.3090609@rcn.com> Pete, At various times gold has been panned from the black sands on that beach. Also diamonds have also been found there. It is now part of the Golden Gate National Recreational Area and off limits to collecting. Magnetite is quite common in the Coast Range. The soil from the Benitoite Gem Mine is so full of magnetite that if you drop a magnet on the ground it can be lost by being buried by dirt attracted to the magnet. pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Back to the beach sand puzzle... > > After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite, not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two pictures of that beach and the black sand layer: > > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink > > When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite, somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some trapezohedral garnet.???? :? ) > > There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But it does all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.) > > I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in the sand, and try to post those online too. > > Cheers, Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Rush > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 8:05 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress > > > Thank you Earl! Great answer! Logical and good science! Am I am happy to think that water pollution is NOT responsible! These are the best beaches in New England, with uncommonly clean surf and sand, a pleasure to visit and swim (and collect Magnetite) in!? > ? > Thanks to all!? > ? > Larry? > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Jan 6 09:40:45 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:40:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: For anyone interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the 1960's, that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It consisted of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented vertically), each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a smaller inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in series with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a stopcock at the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the outflow end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask. With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding into the separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into the separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first U, lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the lightest ended up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water flow and gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates were then emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but if anyone can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. Jim Murowchick From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 09:44:16 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:44:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> and, P.S., and as usual, my apology and a plague upon whatever it is in my aol email connection when I access the internet from my USGS office computer, that continues to insert all those stupid little question marks where they do not belong whenver I write posts from there to the Rockhounds.? Alan Silverstein had tried valiently to explain to me why this might be happening, but not where we could ever figure out anything I can do to eliminate this.? Grin and bear it, but they are not real question marks, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pmodreski@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:20 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Back to the beach sand puzzle... After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite, not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two pictures of that beach and the black sand layer: http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite, somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some trapezohedral garnet.???? :? ) There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But it d oes all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.) I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in the sand, and try to post those online too. Cheers, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 09:46:47 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:47:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <49639685.3090609@rcn.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <49639685.3090609@rcn.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E3DE1D58CD1-7C4-4DF@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Yes, I figured that there was a good deal of magnetite in the source rocks for those California beaches. Nat. Rec. Area, of course, oops, sorry, I'm sure that any sand I brought back from there, must just have accidently been caught inside my shoes when I shook them out. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Bates To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:36 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Pete,? ? At various times gold has been panned from the black sands on that beach. Also diamonds have also been found there. It is now part of the Golden Gate National Recreational Area and off limits to collecting.? ? Magnetite is quite common in the Coast Range. The soil from the Benitoite Gem Mine is so full of magnetite that if you drop a magnet on the ground it can be lost by being buried by dirt attracted to the magnet.? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 6 09:49:07 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:49:11 2009 Subject: Elutriation {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Off Topic Geology in Progress} In-Reply-To: <1E4BB38A-DB8B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <056794FCF23641A3999775569CC46FDC@AXELDESKTOP> <1E4BB38A-DB8B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <77900CCCA2DC4BCAAA2EABD3E97F0E76@AXELDESKTOP> There you go... If there's a word for it, that means that I shouldn't make a run for the patent office? LOL Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 januari 2009 1:44 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Elutriation {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Off Topic Geology in Progress} > > Axel, > > Using a vertical upward flow of water to sort things is called > elutriation. > > It can be used to sort by density, even if the material is of different > sizes. If the material is roughly the same density, it can be used to > sort by size. > > I use it to recycle tumbling grits. It is also quite useful for gold > mining. > > Kreigh > > > > On Monday, Jan 5, 2009, at 11:48 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > Seriously, could a vertical upward flow of water be used to separate > > different minerals according to size or smoothness? > > Or separate grains of minerals from the gangue? > > > > Perhaps this has been suggested already but I' ve been too busy to do > > much > > rockhounds debating the last week ;-) > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 10:09:06 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:09:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E40FFE25961-D58-82D@WEBMAIL-MB21.sysops.aol.com> Pete, Since you use AOL, go to settings on your mail page, over next to help. Click on it, than go to compose and unclick the checked box. Make sure to save your changes.You are sending mail in the rich text editor format and it adds the question marks. dave -----Original Message----- From: pmodreski@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:44 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. and, P.S., and as usual, my apology and a plague upon whatever it is in my aol email connection when I access the internet from my USGS office computer, that continues to insert all those stupid little question marks where they do not belong whenver I write posts from there to the Rockhounds.? Alan Silverstein had tried valiently to explain to me why this might be happening, but not where we could ever figure out anything I can do to eliminate this.? Grin and bear it, but they are not real question marks, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pmodreski@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:20 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Back to the beach sand puzzle... After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite, not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two pictures of that beach and the black sand layer: http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite, somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some trapezohedral garnet.???? :? ) There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But it d oes all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.) I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in the sand, and try to post those online too. Cheers, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Jan 6 10:33:37 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:33:49 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <8CB3E3DE1D58CD1-7C4-4DF@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <49639685.3090609@rcn.com> <8CB3E3DE1D58CD1-7C4-4DF@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4963A401.3040808@rcn.com> Ah, a man proficient in new speak. A second language is always useful, particularly if you happen to be recreating on a national recreational area. pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Yes, I figured that there was a good deal of magnetite in the source rocks for those California beaches. > > Nat. Rec. Area, of course, oops, sorry, I'm sure that any sand I brought back from there, must just have accidently been caught inside my shoes when I shook them out. > > From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 11:21:10 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:21:19 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <8CB3E40FFE25961-D58-82D@WEBMAIL-MB21.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E40FFE25961-D58-82D@WEBMAIL-MB21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E4B10F433ED-15CC-469@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Thank you Dave, that is great, can it really be something that simple to fix this? I just did what you suggested, let's see if this reply gets posted without any of those extraneous Q marks! (not counting the one at the end of the first sentence that I just wrote here, which really IS a question mark!). Muchas gracias, Pete -----Original Message----- From: betdav97@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:09 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. Pete,? ? Since you use AOL, go to settings on your mail page, over next to help.? Click on it, than go to compose and unclick the checked box. Make sure? to save your changes.You are sending mail in the rich text editor format? and it adds the question marks.? dave? ? -----Original Message-----? From: pmodreski@aol.com? To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:44 pm? Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S.? ? ? and, P.S., and as usual, my apology and a plague upon whatever it is in my aol? email connection when I access the internet from my USGS office computer, that? continues to insert all those stupid little question marks where they do not? belong whenver I write posts from there to the Rockhounds.? Alan Silverstein had? tried valiently to explain to me why this might be happening, but not where we? could ever figure out anything I can do to eliminate this.? Grin and bear it,? but they are not real question marks,? Pete? ? ? ? ? -----Original Message-----? From: pmodreski@aol.com? To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:20 am? Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress? ? ? Back to the beach sand puzzle...? ? After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in? ? California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised? to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a? beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west? ? side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches? ? but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite,? not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I? should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it? actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two? pictures of that beach and the black sand layer:? ? http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink? ? When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old? oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz? sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above? the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich? (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the? ? magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite,? ? somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in? ? size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy? minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe? is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty? crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some? trapezohedral garnet.???? :? )? ? There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a? natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an? industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But? it d? oes all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this? List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end? of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.)? ? I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in? ? the sand, and try to post those online too.? ? Cheers, Pete? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 11:31:04 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:31:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <8CB3E4B10F433ED-15CC-469@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> <84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E40FFE25961-D58-82D@WEBMAIL-MB21.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E4B10F433ED-15CC-469@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Pete - your latest message is free of extraneous ? marks On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, wrote: > Thank you Dave, that is great, can it really be something that simple to > fix this? I just did what you suggested, let's see if this reply gets posted > without any of those extraneous Q marks! (not counting the one at the end of > the first sentence that I just wrote here, which really IS a question > mark!). Muchas gracias, > > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: betdav97@aol.com > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:09 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. > > > Pete,? > ? Since you use AOL, go to settings on your mail page, over next to help.? > Click on it, than go to compose and unclick the checked box. Make sure? > to save your changes.You are sending mail in the rich text editor format? > and it adds the question marks.? > dave? > ? > -----Original Message-----? > From: pmodreski@aol.com? > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:44 pm? > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S.? > ? > ? > and, P.S., and as usual, my apology and a plague upon whatever it is in my > aol? > email connection when I access the internet from my USGS office computer, > that? > continues to insert all those stupid little question marks where they do > not? > belong whenver I write posts from there to the Rockhounds.? Alan > Silverstein had? > tried valiently to explain to me why this might be happening, but not where > we? > could ever figure out anything I can do to eliminate this.? Grin and bear > it,? > but they are not real question marks,? > Pete? > ? > ? > ? > ? > -----Original Message-----? > From: pmodreski@aol.com? > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:20 am? > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress? > ? > ? > Back to the beach sand puzzle...? > ? > After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach > sand in? > ? > California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was > surprised? > to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part > of a? > beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the > west? > ? > side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at > beaches? > ? > but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid > magnetite,? > not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I > think--I? > should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how > thick it? > actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see > two? > pictures of that beach and the black sand layer:? > ? > > http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink > ? > ? > When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an > old? > oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" > quartz? > sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see > above? > the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually > magnetite-rich? > (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie > of the? > ? > magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed > magnetite,? > ? > somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very > uniform in? > ? > size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy? > minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I > believe? > is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very > pretty? > crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some? > trapezohedral garnet.???? :? )? > ? > There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a? > natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an? > industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? > But? > it d? > oes all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this? > List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern > end? > of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.)? > ? > I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the > crystals in? > ? > the sand, and try to post those online too.? > ? > Cheers, Pete? > ? > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 11:35:07 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:35:20 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <20090106192239.7EEDA1CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E4D042D35DB-15CC-584@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Alan, I am being very guarded about really having fixed this or not. I THINK my last message posted without any funny added marks. However, when I tried to send it at first to the List address, it would not send it; I kept getting a "There was a problem sending your message" message. I saw that my message composition screen now had on it, as it does again now, a box to click that says "Switch to rich text editor"; when I clicked on that, I could send me message, but that evidently reset the format back to "rich text". I'm going to try this again right now, with the present message, and see what comes out--any funny ?'s in it??? -----Original Message----- From: Alan Silverstein To: pmodreski@aol.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:22 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. If that fixes it, great, sorry I didn't really know HOW to fix it, just what it was. Alan From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 11:43:14 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 11:43:38 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. In-Reply-To: <8CB3E4B10F433ED-15CC-469@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><8CB3E3A24F107E2-7C4-2DC@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><8CB3E3D87BFE94B-7C4-4A2@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><8CB3E40FFE25961-D58-82D@WEBMAIL-MB21.sysops.aol.com> <8CB3E4B10F433ED-15CC-469@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3E4E2661A41C-F8-E16@WEBMAIL-MA15.sysops.aol.com> I did forget to mention, if you want to send embedded photos you have to switch back to the rich text format, and than switch again to get rid of those pesky ?s dave -----Original Message----- From: pmodreski@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. Thank you Dave, that is great, can it really be something that simple to fix this? I just did what you suggested, let's see if this reply gets posted without any of those extraneous Q marks! (not counting the one at the end of the first sentence that I just wrote here, which really IS a question mark!). Muchas gracias, Pete -----Original Message----- From: betdav97@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:09 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S. Pete,? ? Since you use AOL, go to settings on your mail page, over next to help.? Click on it, than go to compose and unclick the checked box. Make sure? to save your changes.You are sending mail in the rich text editor format? and it adds the question marks.? dave? ? -----Original Message-----? From: pmodreski@aol.com? To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:44 pm? Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress, P.S.? ? ? and, P.S., and as usual, my apology and a plague upon whatever it is in my aol? email connection when I access the internet from my USGS office computer, that? continues to insert all those stupid little question marks where they do not? belong whenver I write posts from there to the Rockhounds.? Alan Silverstein had? tried valiently to explain to me why this might be happening, but not where we? could ever figure out anything I can do to eliminate this.? Grin and bear it,? but they are not real question marks,? Pete? ? ? ? ? -----Original Message-----? From: pmodreski@aol.com? To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com? Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:20 am? Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress? ? ? Back to the beach sand puzzle...? ? After I read this, I wanted to share my own curious observation of beach sand in? ? California.? I was in the San Francisco area a few weeks ago, and was surprised? to see a very thick layer of nearly pure magnetite sand on the upper part of a? beach at Ocean Beach (the name of that Pacific Ocean beach section), on the west? ? side of San Fran.? I've often seen thin layers of magnetite-rich sand at beaches? ? but here, the entire upper part of this section of beach was solid magnetite,? not just on the surface but an inch or more thick--several inches, I think--I? should have, but didn't, tried to scoop out a little trench to see how thick it? actually was--I thought of that now.? If you go to this link, you'll see two? pictures of that beach and the black sand layer:? ? http://picasaweb.google.com/Pete3555/MagnetiteSandOnOceanBeachSanFranciscoCA?feat=directlink? ? When I saw this black beach from a distance, I thought maybe it was from an old? oil spill or something.? The sand closer to the surf was more "normal" quartz? sand with just scattered grains of magnetite, and sandy bluffs you'll see above? the beach, though somewhat dark-colored, did not seem unusually magnetite-rich? (I didn't bring back a sample of them).? I did bring back a little baggie of the? ? magnetite sand, and looked at it under a microscope; and it is indeed magnetite,? ? somewhat rounded but often subhedral showing crystal shapes, and very uniform in? ? size, around 1/8 mm.? The black sand contains a scattering of other heavy? minerals, including some orange garnet and amber to pale colored what I believe? is zircon; many of the zircons and garnets are remarkably euhedral--very pretty? crystals, doubly terminated clear tetragonal prisms of zircon and some? trapezohedral garnet.???? :? )? ? There was such an abundance of magnetite there, I wondered if it was all a? natural accumulation, or whether humans had played some role--was there an? industrial dump of magnetite, or a shipwreck of a ship carrying iron ore?? But? it d? oes all look like natural magnetite-rich sand.? Next time anyone on this? List is near that beach--go check it out!? (I think I was?near the southern end? of Ocean Beach--just north of the San Francisco Zoo.)? ? I'll take a stab at getting some closeup macro/micro pictures of the crystals in? ? the sand, and try to post those online too.? ? Cheers, Pete? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 6 12:34:25 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:37:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> <8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one. I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it. Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name. Thanks.....Larry Rush From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 12:50:16 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:50:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CB3E578398F055-15CC-B26@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Larry, As far as I know, Sudbury, Ontario, is the only (?) place in North America that mines and smelts nickel ore.? A famous ore deposit.? But I may not know everything... I've never seen what any of the smelted material from there looks like; visited there once underground years ago, I've only seen the ore (pyrrhotite, chalcopyrite, pentlandite, and other sulfide minerals). Pete -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 1:34 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle..................? ? In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one.? ? I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it.? ? Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name.? ? Thanks.....Larry Rush? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 13:01:23 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:01:26 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel Message-ID: <156596.52344.qm@web83501.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Larry, A long shot. Perhaps if you know who any of the dealers are from that swap, you could try and get contact information to reach them (They may not be on THIS list, so might need to contact them directly). I realize that they are not the person that you are seeking, but one of them might be able to recall who he is. Could be quite a chase, but if you can can a "regular" vendor, they could possibly have your answer. Good Luck Ron ________________________________ From: Lawrence Rush To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 3:34:25 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one. I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it. Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name. Thanks.....Larry Rush -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 13:06:00 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:06:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net> <84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net> <6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush> <99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> <8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: Was he Canadian? Sudbury comes to mind. BK On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 15:34, Lawrence Rush wrote: > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did > not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out > of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and > kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, > and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a > friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed > up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since > it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know > nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know > where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have > got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add > something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 13:36:19 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:36:36 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CB3E5DF21F6844-418-61B@webmail-md06.sysops.aol.com> Larry, I know this a long shot but, could it be where someone poured molten metal into an anthill? I have seen these for sale under various names, and the vendor always looks surprised when I ask if that is what they really are. Although it usually gives an "inside" with the vendor and leads to good stories. dave -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Rush To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 3:34 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle..................? ? In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one.? ? I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it. ? ? Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name.? ? Thanks.....Larry Rush? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Jan 6 13:43:19 2009 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:43:24 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> <8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: I have a similar specimen which I bought at an auction. It had only " Nickel No.43 " on the label but the seller said it was from a plating operation, not a smelter. Since nickel plating was so common during the early part of the last century and he was dealing mostly in antiques, I accepted his explanation as reasonable. But now that I've gone and looked at it closely, the form resembles molten wax that has dripped from a candle, and it shows a rough, broken-looking place where it might have been broken away from a crucible or a casting mold, so apparently it was liquid when it formed. It's really a visually attractive specimen, and I would like to know more about it. John On Jan 6, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me > (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. > These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being > kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was > maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to > ask for one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) > to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one > recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to > another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for > locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the > person who originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would > anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and > how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I > would like to be able to add something to the label besides the > specimen (and my) name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Jan 6 14:03:01 2009 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:03:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush> <8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: I took a couple of photos. If anyone is interested I'll forward them. jpjunk at ( you know to change this) mc.net John On Jan 6, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me > (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. > These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being > kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was > maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to > ask for one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) > to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one > recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to > another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for > locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the > person who originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would > anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and > how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I > would like to be able to add something to the label besides the > specimen (and my) name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 14:18:26 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:18:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <8CB3E63D44D7012-17BC-16C@FWM-M36.sysops.aol.com> I would like to them, betdav97@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: John Junkroski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 5:03 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel I took a couple of photos. If anyone is interested I'll forward them.? ? jpjunk at ( you know to change this) mc.net? ? John? ? On Jan 6, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote:? ? > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle..................? >? > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me > (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. > These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being > kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was > maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to > ask for one.? >? > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) > to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one > recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to > another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for > locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the > person who originally had it.? >? > I s there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would > anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and > how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I > would like to be able to add something to the label besides the > specimen (and my) name.? >? > Thanks.....Larry Rush? >? > --> _______________________________________________? > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? > Subscription Services:? > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >? >? ? --_______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From cornish at tfon.com Tue Jan 6 14:26:02 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:26:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Statistics Message-ID: Hi Kris, Wow! Thank you for the kind words, they are very much appreciated! I enjoy this hobby/passion/business so much, sharing my stories is one of the ways I get to clear my head and make room for more adventures. It isn't always easy to write and at times, it's a real chore... still, it's nice to know I can share a smile! For the last several years, I've posted my papers pretty much exclusively at... http://www.mcrocks.com (... and more recently at http://www.mindat.org ) This is a good site. Friendly. And the folks, they're like an extended family. I've been made to feel at home by everyone there. In addition to this, to my knowledge, mcrocks has the largest online accumulation of Field Trip Reports I've yet found and it's been a real pleasure adding to this always growing repository (well over 100 papers dealing with both the US and the World!). The field trip page can be found here... http://www.mcrocks.com/page18.html If you'd like to read my older papers, please consider going through the US listings and look for my name. There are papers in AZ, WA, CA, NV, OR, CO, etc. If you still want more, I've assembled a mailing list which you and everyone else can join by simply writing me at... cornish@tfon.com and requesting to be added to the list. Some of my papers, not being Field Trips, but rather mineralogical, paleontological musings or specials, are only offered to those on the list (I'll give an example of one of these below). Again, thank you for being so kind! All the very best, John Winter, Ice As A Mineral, Cirrus's Crystals and Snowflakes 1/15/2008 John Cornish cornish@tfon.com Hi Everyone, I'd like to share a few websites where this postings theme can be explored. Ever since seeing my first book on snowflakes (Nakaya's, Snow Crystals), I've been fascinated by ice as a mineral. The following links I've included with this writing share this common thread. As the extremes we often face this time of year mount (it's Winter here in the United States as I write)... as the temperature drops a little more... as the power outages grow a bit more widespread, thank goodness there exists this special opportunity to enjoy the unique relationships which exists between Winter, the Atmospheric Sciences and Mineralogy. The following are a small fun grouping of websites where I hope you'll find a bit of something special to explore and enjoy! Stay warm everyone! All the very best, John This first, Cirrus's Crystals... http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060619-rainbow-fire.html ... and Cloud Crystals and Halos http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/crhal.htm The good side of ice as a mineral... http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals (For this link, make sure you check out the Snowflakes Photo Galleries and the Designer Snowflake movies of growing snow crystals!!!) ... and finally, the beautiful bad! http://pic.bestpicsaround.com/swiss-ice-storm.php Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:00:10 -0800 From: "Kris Rowe" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <831c9ad10901051600o51baf2cfl3acc7afd74b7b035@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Howdy John! Happy New Year! Thanks for the stats on your collecting year. You've wet my whistle for more detail, and I hope that you'll post all of those 13 other papers AND your collecting journal, or give us a link to the site/s upon which we can read them. FYI, I'm one of those die hard, field time deprived rockhounds who rely on well published collectors such as yourself to keep us from taking our rock picks to our garage foundations! Personally, after all of the years that I've spent reading articles in 50+ years of Rock & Gem, Rocks & Minerals, Lapidary Journal, etc. I still find myself pawing through my (ever growing) library looking for that one long lost issue that I've not read 10 times! *grin!* So, perhaps you'll be kind to me, and post links where your papers and journals can be found. I know that modesty might make you reticent to "toot you own horn," but those of us who are more home bound truly appreciate the chance to vicariously enjoy your journeys, and see these places through your sage eyes. My Google search of your name led me to realize that, if you're the John Cornish I hope you are, you've seen and done collecting and mining of which I've read of for years. You've lain your eyes, picks and shovel on sights of which I can only dream. Whether or not you like it, you're one of those "Lucky Guys." You're one of those guys who've inspired my own dreams, and kept me from quitting when life became too impossible. You're one of the fellows who kept me always looking to the hills, and dreaming of what might await me beneath them. You are, like Sinkankas, Pough & Desautels, like Kunz & Ream, Rose & Jones, one of my heroes. You're one of those guys who've not given up, not given in, and who've triumphed when others quit. Memories of the tales of the Bunker Hill mine and other great and storied sites with names like Oxford, Mt. Mica, and Bisbee fill the heads and hearts of we who read of your exploits. The years may pass, the specimens fly from our hands, and our heroes may fall, but those accounts continue to inspire those of us who aren't amongst "the Lucky Guys." So, please accept my heartfelt thanks for the efforts you've made, the pictures and accounts you've given us, amd most of all, for never giving up. I may not have the resources to own one of your specimens, but I can own your words and pictures, and visit the vugs, open cuts and tunnels in my dreams, and through your kind and colorful accounts. Be Well, Sir! Kris Lapidary Specialteis Fresno, California, U.S.A.On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 7:17 PM, John Cornish wrote: > > > Hi Everyone and Happy New Year! I've very much enjoyed many of the recent > posts here and just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time. > > > > The Snowbird presentation was great Nathan! > > > > All the very best, take care > > > > John > > > > PS, here is my most recent paper, I hope you all enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > 1/3/2009 > > Field Collecting Journals and My 2008 Year End Collecting Statistics > > > > By John Cornish > cornish@tfon.com > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > For over sixteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which > documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. > Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 1000 pages > of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last > years collecting, 2008, and have included them following if you've an > interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles > and for this reason more then any other I hope that you'll consider starting > a Field Collecting Journal of your own. > > > > As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we > risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting > moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next > followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, > I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to > my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other > collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. > No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start > it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out > and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local > Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my > thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons for > starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). Following this I > summed up some of the highlights from past collecting trips and then I was > ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I > needed, I headed out to collect! > > > > As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my > lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! > As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just > try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious > benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who > need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments and > the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate our > collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our collections > attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our > specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace > in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often > replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! > > > > These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path > may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! > > > > Happy New Year, > > > > John > > > > 2008 Collecting Statistics > > > > 30 Trips/Localities visited total > > > > 12 different Localities ---- 9 Minerals, 3 Fossils > > > > Most Frequented Locality ----- (a fossil locality) 5 trips > > New Mineral Localities ---- 1 (in Nevada) > > > > Shows I participated in --- 5 > > > Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, > Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah > > > > Longest Trip ---- 48 days > > > > Journal pages recorded --- 81 > > > > Papers written --- 14 > > > > Have a great year everyone and all the very best, > > John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From zebulon at isr.umich.edu Tue Jan 6 14:48:47 2009 From: zebulon at isr.umich.edu (Peter Sparks) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:49:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E4905709752@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> A fellow rockhound here in Ann Arbor bought a bunch of these things, and his came from an old nickel plating operation for Harley Davidson. These things formed on the edge of the plating vats. They look like drippy globular clusters with many globules that seem to come from one point, like bunches of balloons you'd see for sale at the carnivals, upside down and much smaller. They are a metallic silver/nickel color. He bought them to make jewelry pieces but strangely, although attractive, never did sell well. Harley Davidson changed their plating methods and these are supposed to be no longer available, at least five years ago if not ten or twenty. No information on the trader, though I can report back with more specifics once I learn them. -- Peter -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Junkroski Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:43 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel I have a similar specimen which I bought at an auction. It had only " Nickel No.43 " on the label but the seller said it was from a plating operation, not a smelter. Since nickel plating was so common during the early part of the last century and he was dealing mostly in antiques, I accepted his explanation as reasonable. But now that I've gone and looked at it closely, the form resembles molten wax that has dripped from a candle, and it shows a rough, broken-looking place where it might have been broken away from a crucible or a casting mold, so apparently it was liquid when it formed. It's really a visually attractive specimen, and I would like to know more about it. John On Jan 6, 2009, at 2:34 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me > (he did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. > These came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being > kind of globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was > maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to > ask for one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) > to a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one > recently showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to > another collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for > locality information. I know nothing about the specimen or the > person who originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would > anyone know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and > how it might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I > would like to be able to add something to the label besides the > specimen (and my) name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 15:16:30 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:16:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E4905709752@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E4905709752@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> Message-ID: <8CB3E6BF134559F-1054-303@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Having read these posts, my guess is that metal from the (Harley or similar) plating operation sounds most likely, rather than something "directly" from a mining-related nickel smelter. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Peter Sparks To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 3:48 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel A fellow rockhound here in Ann Arbor bought a bunch of these things, and his came from an old nickel plating operation for Harley Davidson. These things formed on the edge of the plating vats. They look like drippy globular clusters with many globules that seem to come from one point, like bunches of balloons you'd see for sale at the carnivals, upside down and much smaller. They are a metallic silver/nickel color. He bought them to make jewelry pieces but strangely, although attractive, never did sell well. Harley Davidson changed their plating methods and these are supposed to be no longer available, at least five years ago if not ten or twenty. No information on the trader, though I can report back with more specifics once I learn them. -- Peter -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Junkroski Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:43 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel I have a similar specimen which I bought at an auction. It had only " Nickel No.43 " on the label but the seller said it was from a plating operation, not a smelter. Since nickel plating was so common during the early part of the last century and he was dealing mostly in antiques, I accepted his explanation as reasonable. But now that I've gone and looked at it closely, the form resembles molten wax that has dripped from a candle, and it shows a rough, broken-looking place where it might have been broken away from a crucible or a casting mold, so apparently it was liquid when it formed. It's really a visually attractive specimen, and I would like to know more about it. John From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 15:47:31 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:47:44 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise In-Reply-To: <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> A P.S. to the 13,000 b.p. impact-produced diamonds discussion, After reading all these posts (or at least most of them) about this topic, I found I was able to go through our USGS library online and read the original article in the journal, Science, about it (2 Jan 2009, vol. 323; "Nanodiamonds in the Younger Dryas Boundary Sediment Layer" and, even better, the "News of the Week-Planetary Impacts" story from that issue of Science, "Did the Mammoth Slayer Leave a Diamond Calling Card", which described the background for this research (and which is much more readable). It seems that our Rockhounds discussion got onto somewhat of a side track about whether "hexagonal diamonds are still diamonds". Nice discussion, but, though the BBC story did use these terms, unless I am missing it, the actual Science article by D.J. Kennett et al. never mentions lonsdaleite, nor anything about "hexagonal". It refers to them as "nanodiamonds", also as "the n-diamond polymorph", which crystallizes "under lower temperature-pressure conditions". They also refer to recovery of "typical cubic diamonds" from one site (Bull Creek, Oklahoma), and describe "subrounded, spherical, and octahedral crystallites, ranging in size from 2 to 300 nm, distributed within carbon spherules", and refer to electron diffraction patterns producing "d-spacings typical of cubic diamonds" as well as "additional 'forbidden' reflections consistent with the n-diamond polymorph". 0D The News of the Week" story notes that other researchers have still questioned the interpretation of this data, and some groups have reported carbon spherules and nanodiamonds from other soil horizons of various ages, questioning whether there is really any correlation with an impact event or events. [maybe they are just generic cosmic dust filtering down to Earth??--my comment, not theirs] and, a P.P.S. to this, I see that it's not 13,000 years BCE or B.C. as some have been quoting but (the authors actually said 12,900) years B.P., = "before present", which means approx. 11,000 B.C. There is another very interesting article just published, about apparent evidence for a tsumani, inferred to have been caused by an impact, 2300 years ago (=300 B.C.) in the New York City - Long Island area. See geology.com, which linked to a story in National Geographic News: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/12/081231-new-york-tsunami.html have fun, Pete -----Original Message----- From: DonH To: erich kern ; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 5:56 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise erich kern wrote:? ? > !3,000 yrs BCE? > > > http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm?ad=1? ? OK, now we have some clarity on w hat's being said:? ? "...lonsdalite, or hexagonal diamonds, associated with meteorite explosions."? ? So this is some bad terminology. Pretty sad.? ? Don? From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Jan 6 17:06:25 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:06:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise In-Reply-To: <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Pete, for doing this research. So does anybody know what the n-diamond polymorph is? I didn't! I did a bit of web searching using "n-diamond polymorph". Got more than I want to try to understand! But here is an abstract from a recent presentation at American Geophysical Union (Dec. 2008), probably already referred to in this thread and definitely related to the Science article that Pete M. quotes below, since the list of authors is basically the same, but scrambled around: American Geophysical Union, San Francisco, CA December 15 and 19, 2008 Younger Dryas Boundary Impact Abstracts Oral Presentations (Tuesday, December 16) 1) Presence of all Three Allotropes of Impact-Diamonds in the Younger Dryas Onset Layer (YDB) Across N America and NW Europe West, A.a, Kennett, J. P.b, Kennett, D. J.c, Que Hee, S. S.d, Wolbach, W. S.e, Stich, A.e, Bunch, T. E. f, Wittke, J. H. f, Mercer, C. g, Sellers, M.h, Culleton, B. J. c, Erlandson, J. M.i, Johnson, J. R. j, Stafford, T. W., Jr.k, Weaver, J. C. l, West, G. J.m We report the discovery of all three diamond allotropes (cubic diamond, lonsdaleite, and n-diamond) in an extraterrestrial (ET) impact layer (the YDB), dating to the Younger Dryas onset at 12.9 ka. YDB diamonds are distributed broadly across N America and NW Europe at 15 sites spanning 9,000 km or 23 percent of Earth?s circumference. N- diamonds and lonsdaleite, or hexagonal diamond, do not co-occur with terrestrial diamonds, but are found in meteorites. Lonsdaleite is found on Earth only in association with known ET impacts, and thus, is a definitive impact indicator. Interestingly enough, the Science article only references cubic diamond and n-diamond in the abstract (I could not look further without $$$), and does not mention hexagonal diamonds (or lonsdaleite) at all. But the abstract above clearly identifies hexagonal diamonds as being the same as lonsdaleite. So perhaps the reference to hexagonal diamonds came from this earlier AGU abstract and got picked up as easier to describe to the public than lonsdaleite and n-diamonds, and then the authors chickened out about lonsdaleite? And so perhaps the reference is now moot? Pete Richards On Jan 6, 2009, at 6:47 PM, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > A P.S. to the 13,000 b.p. impact-produced diamonds discussion, > > After reading all these posts (or at least most of them) about this > topic, I found I was able to go through our USGS library online and > read the original article in the journal, Science, about it (2 Jan > 2009, vol. 323; "Nanodiamonds in the Younger Dryas Boundary > Sediment Layer" and, even better, the "News of the Week-Planetary > Impacts" story from that issue of Science, "Did the Mammoth Slayer > Leave a Diamond Calling Card", which described the background for > this research (and which is much more readable). > > It seems that our Rockhounds discussion got onto somewhat of a side > track about whether "hexagonal diamonds are still diamonds". Nice > discussion, but, though the BBC story did use these terms, unless I > am missing it, the actual Science article by D.J. Kennett et al. > never mentions lonsdaleite, nor anything about "hexagonal". It > refers to them as "nanodiamonds", also as "the n-diamond > polymorph", which crystallizes "under lower temperature-pressure > conditions". They also refer to recovery of "typical cubic > diamonds" from one site (Bull Creek, Oklahoma), and describe > "subrounded, spherical, and octahedral crystallites, ranging in > size from 2 to 300 nm, distributed within carbon spherules", and > refer to electron diffraction patterns producing "d-spacings > typical of cubic diamonds" as well as "additional 'forbidden' > reflections consistent with the n-diamond polymorph". > 0D > The News of the Week" story notes that other researchers have still > questioned the interpretation of this data, and some groups have > reported carbon spherules and nanodiamonds from other soil horizons > of various ages, questioning whether there is really any > correlation with an impact event or events. [maybe they are just > generic cosmic dust filtering down to Earth??--my comment, not theirs] > > and, a P.P.S. to this, I see that it's not 13,000 years BCE or B.C. > as some have been quoting but (the authors actually said 12,900) > years B.P., = "before present", which means approx. 11,000 B.C. > > There is another very interesting article just published, about > apparent evidence for a tsumani, inferred to have been caused by an > impact, 2300 years ago (=300 B.C.) in the New York City - Long > Island area. See geology.com, which linked to a story in National > Geographic News: > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/12/081231-new-york- > tsunami.html > > have fun, > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: DonH > To: erich kern ; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 5:56 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Diamond clues to beasts' demise > > > erich kern wrote: > >> !3,000 yrs BCE >> > > > http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/1/ > hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm?ad=1 > > OK, now we have some clarity on w > hat's being said: > > "...lonsdalite, or hexagonal diamonds, associated with meteorite > explosions." > > So this is some bad terminology. Pretty sad. > > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 6 17:34:11 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:33:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <48AF3C78-DC5B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> I have a similar specimen that came from one of our club members at a silent auction a couple years ago. Mine also came without a locality. What is interesting is that on the bottom there is the imprint of a 3/8 inch square support rod. It was obviously formed from molten drops falling onto the bar and hardening. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 15:34 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he > did not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These > came out of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of > globular, and kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe > 4x8cm in size. No label, and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for > one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to > a friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently > showed up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another > collector. Since it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality > information. I know nothing about the specimen or the person who > originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone > know where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it > might have got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to > be able to add something to the label besides the specimen (and my) > name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 6 17:36:19 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:36:20 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth magazine (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. It answers the question about the source of the rocks focusing primarily on the massive bluestones. It turns out that while it is true that the bluestone's source is 400 km WNW, they were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. Prehistoric people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different types of rock from multiple locations, something to be expected when selecting glacial erratics over a large area. The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were "trained" by glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial lobes kept the bluestone from being fanned out all over the place. They give an example of a similar glacial deposit in Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are erratics ten times larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of nowhere. They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to hundreds of kilometers from the source. The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has been written about it for so many years. It was a favorite rock of the Neolithic people because it was readily carvable. Many stone axes and celts made of the same rock have been found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in archaeological sites in the region that are even older than Stonehenge. As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics today, their answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of habitation, almost all of them have been picked up! Alan G. From markstanley at bellnet.ca Tue Jan 6 18:30:55 2009 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:38:20 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <006201c97070$a78f3c40$ad64e2d1@b1quvu32> Dear Larry: An old friend and collecting partner of mine, used to always carry several flats of the Nickel specimens to rock shows for trading. He called them "Nickel Dendrites". I remember he told me that they came from the chrome plating tanks in a factory that make car bumpers, in either Detroit, Mich., or Windsor, Ontario. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would approach me (he did > not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. These came out > of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of globular, and > kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in size. No label, > and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one. > > I re-traded one of these (don't remember what happened to the rest) to a > friend in Arkansas. That owner died and this particular one recently showed > up on an auction site on the web, and was sold to another collector. Since > it had my label on it, he contacted me for locality information. I know > nothing about the specimen or the person who originally had it. > > Is there any member who knows anything about this trader? Would anyone know > where Nickel might have been smelted in the 1980's, and how it might have > got out into the hands of a mineral trader? I would like to be able to add > something to the label besides the specimen (and my) name. > > Thanks.....Larry Rush > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 6 18:38:57 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:39:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Message-ID: List, by the way, going further toward answering my own earlier question, I did a little more web browsing and I see that quite a lot is known and has been written about the black sands of that part of the California coast. Here's an excerpt from a report talking about its economic potential, and even, from San Francisco's Exploratorium museum, an announcement about a "Black Sand Treasure Hunt" field trip they will hold in March. (It's fun to go to someplace and "discover" something like this for yourself, not having known about it previously!) http://www.santacruzpl.org/history/work/miner3.shtml Mineral Survey of Santa Cruz County Black Sand Prepared by C. McK. Laizure, Mining Engineer of the California State Mining Bureau There are extensive stretches along the coast of California where the heavier constituents of the beach sands have been concentrated by wave action into deposits of so-called 'black sand'. The composition of this heavy concentrate varies somewhat with the locality. In general the following commercial mierals are present in greater or less amounts: gold, magnetite, ilmenite (oxide of iron and titanium), garnet, zircon, hematite, chromate, and the platinum group metals. ?"It was found that the magnetite contained in the black sands of the Pacific slope constitutes a greater supply of useful iron ore than any other available source known on the Pacific slope. ? ?Well-known deposits of black sand occur in Santa Cruz County along many of the beaches, particularly on the northern shore of Monterey Bay from the mouth of Pajaro River to Soquel point. The deposits are found both on the present beaches and on the older marine terraces back from the present shore line. They occur in strata form a few inches to several feet in thickness, interstratified with light beach sand. They are said to carry small amounts of platinum, as well as gold, ? Black Sand Treasure Hunt Saturday, March 28th, 2009 Join us to search for and harvest Black Sand at Ocean Beach led by Ken Finn. Black Sand is one of the most popular exhibits at the Exploratorium; visitors of all ages can?t keep their hands off of it! You can bring the fun and learning home by joining us at San Francisco?s Ocean Beach to locate, sort, and collect black sand (magnetite). We?ll bring everything you need for this treasure hunt, and send you home with black sand, magnets, and a cool activity sheet! In a message dated 1/6/2009 10:49:08 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, pmodreski@aol.com writes: Yes, I figured that there was a good deal of magnetite in the source rocks for those California beaches. Nat. Rec. Area, of course, oops, sorry, I'm sure that any sand I brought back from there, must just have accidently been caught inside my shoes when I shook them out. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Bates To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:36 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress Pete,? ? At various times gold has been panned from the black sands on that beach. Also diamonds have also been found there. It is now part of the Golden Gate National Recreational Area and off limits to collecting.? ? Magnetite is quite common in the Coast Range. The soil from the Benitoite Gem Mine is so full of magnetite that if you drop a magnet on the ground it can be lost by being buried by dirt attracted to the magnet.? ? **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From amc358 at rcn.com Tue Jan 6 18:42:51 2009 From: amc358 at rcn.com (Albert McCann) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:42:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel In-Reply-To: <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> References: <496133A6.2060502@ptd.net><84e0928fd21480e938155c6a52e48af1@ptd.net><6E29A751B2A9423F98AC525D8097F038@LarryRush><99DB14C95D154E00AF373742F67FEC30@LarryRush><8CB3E3744592B1B-7C4-126@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <208B4AEAFBC84A16B73B2C981BFC9BA3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <6FC9DC485A0F40719004D1C2C5BD5691@bunny2> Huh. This lurker has one of those. A guy at work (who just retired) gave me one of these things years ago. I've put a pic up here: http://www.familymccann.org:5679/nickel.jpg It's about 9.5cm long, there are bubbles in the metal on the 'bottom' of the globules. I was told it's nickel, and that it was formed by pouring molten nickel into some kind of liquid, guy said oil, but there's no residue if it was. It does not have the look of an object that was used in a plating process. I once worked in a printed circuit manufacturing company (many decades ago...) and we did nickel plating. The anodes were bar shaped, and we never got anything on the edge of the vats that looked like this. Al > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Lawrence Rush > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Smelter Nickel > > OK...this time I DO have a real puzzle.................. > > In the 1980's, I used to attend a swap session every summer in New > Hampshire. For several years there, a gentleman would > approach me (he did > not have a booth), and offer to trade me a Nickel specimen. > These came out > of a smelter somewhere, and were attractive, being kind of > globular, and > kind of dendritic, and shiny metallic. It was maybe 4x8cm in > size. No label, > and I wasn't sophisticated enough to ask for one. > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 6 19:29:12 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 19:28:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5A74E9E8-DC6B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Jim. That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit and have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would like to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a single pass would save me a lot of time. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick wrote: > For anyone interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the > 1960's, > that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It > consisted > of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented > vertically), > each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a > smaller > inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in > series > with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a stopcock > at > the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the > outflow > end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask. > > With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding > into the > separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into the > separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first U, > lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the lightest > ended > up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water flow > and > gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates were > then > emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. > > I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but if > anyone can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. > > Jim Murowchick > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Jan 6 19:35:25 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Jan 6 19:35:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <5A74E9E8-DC6B-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi Kreigh. I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep finding when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I stashed it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't find the paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch. I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't need it. Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might start separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be modified to make that separation. Jim On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" wrote: > Jim. > > That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit and > have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would like > to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a > single pass would save me a lot of time. > > Kreigh > > > On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick wrote: > >> For anyone interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the >> 1960's, >> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It >> consisted >> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented >> vertically), >> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a >> smaller >> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in >> series >> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a stopcock >> at >> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the >> outflow >> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask. >> >> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding >> into the >> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into the >> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first U, >> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the lightest >> ended >> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water flow >> and >> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates were >> then >> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. >> >> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but if >> anyone can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. >> >> Jim Murowchick >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 6 20:34:59 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 6 20:34:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B0DD3A1-DC74-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build something that worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I am sure it would save me a lot of time experimenting to make things work right. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick wrote: > Hi Kreigh. > > I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep > finding > when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > stashed > it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > find the > paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch. > > I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't > need it. > Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > start > separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the > airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be > modified > to make that separation. > > Jim > > > On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" wrote: > >> Jim. >> >> That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit and >> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would like >> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a >> single pass would save me a lot of time. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> wrote: >> >>> For anyone interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the >>> 1960's, >>> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It >>> consisted >>> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented >>> vertically), >>> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a >>> smaller >>> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in >>> series >>> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> stopcock >>> at >>> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the >>> outflow >>> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask. >>> >>> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding >>> into the >>> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into >>> the >>> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first >>> U, >>> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the lightest >>> ended >>> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water flow >>> and >>> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates were >>> then >>> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. >>> >>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but >>> if >>> anyone can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. >>> >>> Jim Murowchick >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From daughtofking64 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 21:25:14 2009 From: daughtofking64 at yahoo.com (Cheri Moody) Date: Tue Jan 6 21:25:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! References: <748367.29663.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9j47m4ps1eusdf5n5a6bi18ah8a7fdvgcn@4ax.com> Message-ID: <250125.1509.qm@web57702.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks! I am staying right down the street and an Aunt's house. I will?check it out and get back with you all on my findings. ? Cheri Moody? ________________________________ From: Al Balmer To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 9:19:17 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:29:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly wrote: >Al, >That's it exactly! Thanks for filling in the gaps in my memory. >Jim Thank you! I didn't know about the geodes :-) > >--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Al Balmer wrote: > >From: Al Balmer >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >To: sauktown1@yahoo.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:11 AM > >On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:33:36 -0800 (PST), Jim Daly > wrote: > >>Cheri, >>There are also small geodes to be found at Wickenburg. Go east off the >highway on Constellation Road. (It's at a McDonald's or Burger King, >can't remember which). About a half mile in, there's a hill on the left. >Climb it. The geodes are up near the top. > >McDonalds. Take the road between Subway and McDonald's. It's actually >Jack Burden Road, but runs into Constellation almost immediately. > >>Jim Daly >> >>--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Cheri Moody wrote: >> >>From: Cheri Moody >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Thanks! >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >>Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:32 AM >> >>Thanks to all who?gave us great info and a warm welcome! We are happy to >be a >>part?of an exciting?group of?well informed Rockhounds/Geologist.? >>We are heading to?Wickenburg Arizona in the am in hopes to >find?Turquoise. A >>quick stop in Quartzite to see some of the collectors gatherings?and >>possibilities will make this a fun few days?and a start?for the new year. >>? >>Cheri Moody? >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From: Nathan Martin >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:42:23 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >> >>Hi Cheri, >>Welcome to the list.? Our list includes a diverse group of people from all >>over the world.? It is a great list to be on and someone on it can usually >>provide an answer to almost any question that you might have.? I guess the >>real question depends on what you mean by Rockhounding.? I think Wikipedia >>has a good definition: Rockhounding is the recreational collecting of rocks >>and/or mineral specimens from their natural environment. >> >>By that definition I am certainly a rockhound and most others on this list >>are as well.? However, there are a lot of topics related to the hobby and >>geology is certainly one of them so you should not be surprised to find >>discussions of it here.? The topics discussed vary from day to day and >month >>to month.? Sometimes they are interesting to me sometimes not but I have >>found this list to be a great place to learn and share information about >our >>hobby. >> >>You may indeed want to find an additional list to join and the YAHOO group, >>LA-Rocks, would seem to be appropriate for your location.? (I am a member >of >>that group as well, even though I only get to California once or twice a >>year, but always with my collecting tools in my luggage.) >> >>Good luck with your "rockhounding" by whatever definition you >choose >>to >>apply.? Its a great hobby. >> >>best regards, >>Nate martin >>Lexington, MA >> >>On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Cheri Moody >>wrote: >> >>> Hello group! My husband and I are fairly new Rock Hounds (7 >years)....This >>> group seems to be a bit more than Rockhounds, more of a serious >geology >>> group....We are looking for a group that is into the Rockhounding in >>> Southern, and Northern Cali....We also travel to Utah, Arizona, >Oregon, >>> Nevada to hunt...Can you direct us to a group of Rockhounds? Or if any >of >>> you are into the basic Rockhounding we would love to hear from you. >>> >>> Cheri Moody >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Scott & Meesha Blair >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" < >>> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:57:31 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >>> >>> That's good stuff Larry: >>> >>> I'm starting to have a clearer picture of why different dealers >have >>such >>> widely variable pricing on what appears to be very similar mineral >>specimens >>> (smiles) >>> >>> I injured my back this past summer while lifting a portly chunk of >basalt >>> into my pickup. It's bad enough laying on the ground, trying to >get >>past the >>> pain, before you can consider going down the hill to see a doctor (and >>begin >>> the financial part of the trauma). But to make matters worse, my 80 >year >>old >>> grandpa who was with me at the time, advised me to quit whining, and >>> continued to dead lift 150 pounders into the truck with simple ease. >>> >>> In a month's time, my back was reasonably OK - but my ego has >still >>not >>> fully recovered! >>> >>> Warm Regards - Scott Blair >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" < >>> larryrush@worldnet.att.net> >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" < >>> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:51 AM >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] New Year's Resolutions >>> >>> >>> >? 8.. I resolve not to use my 5 foot, 50 pound railroad pry bar >as a >>> hiking staff while climbing a quarry wall ( Last year's result- >broken >>> femur, ambulance ride, $2370 Emergency Room charges, and no new >calcites >>> from that site) >>> >>> -- _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>>? text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >>? ? ? >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >>? text/plain (text body -- kept) >>? text/html >>--- > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >? ? ? > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative >? text/plain (text body -- kept) >? text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From djodjolubende at yahoo.fr Wed Jan 7 07:30:59 2009 From: djodjolubende at yahoo.fr (lubende serge djodjo) Date: Wed Jan 7 07:31:03 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] unsubscribe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <606397.7419.qm@web26504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> i ask to be removed from the list please. Thanks for your service. Serge Djodjo Lubende Bunka CEO: BUNKA BUKOLA and MEMBER IN: EXPRESSO CITY INTERNATIONAL 232, avenue Lumumba-Lubumbashi. Congo DRC. Tel: 00243995560844, 00243816070636 Skype: djodjo03 Yahoo messenger: djodjolubende --- En date de?: Sam 3.1.09, Nathan Martin a ?crit?: De: Nathan Martin Objet: Re: [Rockhounds] Favorite Collecting Trips of 2008 ?: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Date: Samedi 3 Janvier 2009, 18h07 Hi Kris - thanks for responding and for sharing your collecting tales as well. I was beginning to think that nobody else had gone collecting last year! :-) I'm still hoping that others on the rockhounds list will take the time to share their best collecting experiences of 2008. Come on all you field collectors out there! What was your most memorable trip of 2008? best regards, Nate Martin in cold and snowy Lexington, MA P.S. - I'll try to get a few parisite photos added to that online set of pictures. However - be forewarned that parisite-(Ce) is not exactly a beautiful mineral - sort of a chocolate brown, with some crystals tapered on both ends, reminiscent of......well, you know.....not yet petrified coprolite..... P.P.S. - I too bemoan the loss of the Clear Creek collecting area. I was fortunate enough to collect there three times, mostly around the perovskite knob. It is a wild and wonderful place! On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Kris Rowe wrote: > Howdy, Nathan! > Thanks for the great field trip reports, and > especially for the GREAT web pages on the Snowbird Mine! I'm still trying > to > pry my jaw off the floor after seeing the sheer size of that sceptered > quartz crystal! > I'd love to see some pics of the parisite crystals you mined, and > especially > the calcites from the Eureka. > > Being stuck in the Central Valley of California for 360 days last year, I > only got in 3 days collecting, due to one of my periodic "total life > remakes." Thankfully, 2009 looks like it will be a much better year for > collecting. > > My first collecting day was to the Panoche Hills, west of New Idria and the > Clear Creek BLM Management area. I've collected several sites in this area > for over 20 years and find a plethora of cuttable materials here, including > agates (plasma, banded, nodular "root beer" and many other types); agatized > palm, reed and wood; jaspers of many colors and patterns; nephrite AND > jadeite jades; howleite; ironstone; opal and opalites; serpentines; > opalized > shells; "reef" fossils; basalt cobbles; and the frequent "what the HECK is > that?" > > One of my favorites from the area is 'satin spar', fibrous cutting grade > seam gypsum. It's the perfect material for teaching hand cutting. Unlike > many tutors of the lapidary arts, I prefer to start students on soft > stones, > with wet/dry sandpaper. This encourages them to "feel" the stone, rather > than catering to the modern "need for speed." The speed that they > experience > when I allow them to saw their piece of 'spar' in preparation for sanding > by > hand gives them a realization of its 'butter' softness. Rather than ending > up with a stone that demonstrates how much of a beginner they are and > discouraging them, I try to make sure they learn that most basic lapidary > skill: Patience! This results in a stone that looks like a "bragger," > without costing them a fortune. > > But, I digress (as I usually do!) Back to collecting. With the closure of > the Clear Creek area due to "asbestos danger" ("Oh dear, oh my!") my > collecting will NOT include benetoite, fresnoite, or neptunite. Nor willl I > be able prospect for the lovely jadeite and nephrite found for the last > century in this area. Personally, I resent being treated like a child who > cannot take sufficient precautions against a "suspected carcinogen." It > seems that we should only be exposed to carcinogens when it's taxable, like > filling our gas tanks. > > O.K., enough soapbox ... (putting it away ...) > > On to Trona! > > Without a doubt, one of my top 5 "most enjoyable" collecting experiences > was > this years Searles Valley Mineral Society > Gem-O-Rama! > Nestled in the arid wilderness, Trona is a dusty, sulfurous oasis between > the bustling (yawn!) Metropolis of > Ridgecrest(pop. > 25,000) and Death Valley. > The home of the Searles Valley Mineral Corp, Trona produces many different > evaporate minerals in world class quantities. > For the mineral collector who craves evaporates, Trona is THE place! Most, > specifically, it's THE place one weekend out of the year! > > For over sixty-five years, rockhounds have come to Trona the second weekend > of October to brave the smelly mud, flying crystals and stinking brine that > are the trademarks of this great collecting event. 2008 was a great example > of just how great collecting can be on Searles Lake. > > We (my partner Laura and myself) arrived late in the evening of October 11 > at Motel 6 in Ridgecrest. We're both of the belief that, even when in a > motel, "roughing it" is an essential part of any collecting trip! So, in > the > interest of economy, we settled for a queen bed, and cable TV. > > Eye rubbingly early the next morning, we lit out for Trona, and hopefully, > something to eat. Note to all: Get up early, if you expect to eat before > the > first field trip. > > Arriving in Trona after a 30 minute drive, we found and stood in the > appropriate lines. Welllllll ... I stood in line, while my paramour went > "in search of" comfort facilities. Let me state right here, the Searles > Valley folks do a bang up job, and put on one of the best "small town" > shows > I've seen. They also have what is the most impressive "clubhouse" I've ever > seen! Still, the word for the smart collector is to get there eartly. There > are great dealers, great club members who actually KNOW where things are, > and to warn those with sensitive noses, an ever present sulfurous stink! > Only when a stiff wind blows does the "rotton egg" odor abate. > > After standing in line to buy donuts, only to find the last were sold to > the > folks ahead of me, we were able to get a banana! (Blessings to the lovely > club member who gave us her banana! Get there EARLY!) That, Pepsi and > cornchips were our breakfast, while we waited for the "Mudpile" field trip > to begin. > > One of the great pleasures of collecting at Trona is the brief drive from > the show grounds. The "dry" lake bed is IN town ... or is it the other way > around? Anywho, the organisation of the field trip is flawless, and within > 5 > minutes we arrived at the most impressive pile of stinking, sticky muck > I've > ever had the pleasure of getting my shoes stuck in. Found within these > mudpiles are rare hanksite crystals, trona crystals, borates and other > evaporates. Also to be found were throngs of people who were VERY serious > about getting the best and biggest hanksites! > > Runnning around, getting stuck like ants in honey, were throngs of children > of all ages, some of whom were making their first ever trip away from inner > city L.A. The looks on the faces of those kids made me feel as young as > they > were, as they pulled out and washed off hanksites the size of soda cans and > larger! > > There were troughs of lake brine for washing these crystals, which easily > and quickly melt in any less than a saturate saline soloution. These > quickly > became elbow to elbow affairs, and I generally had at least one small child > under each arm washing away as I smiled down on them. I seemed to be the > least serious (or the most amused) collector there, and recieved many > scornful looks as I chuckled and cracked jokes with harried parents. Of > course, these scornfull looks came from small children, who knew I couldn't > possibly appreciate the gravity of the situation! > > And, being friendly and marginally knowledgible, I soon had children > approaching with the ever present question: "What's THIS one worth?" > > Being my first time for hanksite collecting, I made many "educated" > guesses, > hoping I wasn't too far wrong! > No matter what my opinion was, the young digger would run off in search of > "the BIG One!" Many of the smallest kids found crystals that dwarfed mine! > > Having filled the plastic file boxes we brought for hanksite (keep your > hanksite moist, but not wet, until you can clean it completely) we left > with > the "last call." The drive back was short, and the food and hospitality at > the Clubhouse were great! After a sandwich and soda, we joined the bull > session in the field trip parking lot, and waited for the call to mount up! > > As always, the bull session was one of the best parts of collecting, and we > made new friends from far places. > John hailed from Minnesota, and entertained me with tales of gold > propecting > in Alaska and sapphires in Montana. A noisome throng appoached, students > from the University of Arizona at Prescott. We traded collecting tales, and > I showed them my "pet" Shaver Lake amethyst, which always goes propecting > with me. > > The afternoon trip was the fabled "Blowhole" trip, of which details can be > found at the linked "SLG&MS" site. It was truly impresive to watch the > video > at the clubhouse & see the explosives in use by the Navy Ordnance officers, > and the crystals being pumped out of the ground. As luck would have it, the > pumping that we'd seen as we passed the site that morning was the only we'd > be seeing. > As the drilling rig was working the last hole, the salt crust below gave > way, and the whole rig tipped on its side! However, we, the eager > collectors, were barely affected. Aside from looking wistfully toward the > now "off limits" hole with drill rig waiting for a tow truck, we gave our > attention to sorting through the tons of freshly pumped crystals. > Again, as in the morning, the children were happy to have someone who'd > give > them an identity for their discoveries, and what discoveries they were! My > own crystals paled before their glories, and I wished that I were 9 years > old again. > > I made friends with a 9 year old named Mathew, and his somewhat frayed > father, who was quite busy trying to herd 4 kids and still gather a few > crystals for himself. Matthew had the sort of luck I can only wish for, > showing up with handful after handful of rare top notch hanksite. The > toppers were a fist (that is, MY fist!) sized, museum clean "root beer" > brown hanksite and a very rare, 1/2" sulfo-halite. > Now, my eyes nearly left my skull when I saw that hanksite, since the usual > hanksite is green to amber colored, and clear. This one derived its color > from the dreamy, creamy "cumulous cloud" clay inclusions that floated below > its surface. When he asked the inevitible "How much?" I overcame > temptation, > and looked into his eyes. "Matthew," I slowly said, "I can't tell you." His > small brow furrowed as I continued,"That crystal is so fine, if I were you, > I'd never sell it." His Dad smiled and appreciated the moment. I'm sure > that > I'll see them again next year. Dad said I would! > > We quickly met up with several new friends whom we'd met at lunch, Nancy & > Kim, from Illinois. Kim is a GIA Graduate Gemologist, who'd decided to come > with her Mom to see what field collecting was all about! They asked sweetly > if I'd help them to identify thier finds, and as always (especially for > pretty ladies!) I said "Sure!" My darling Laura had invited them to sit > with > us, and found us 2 new friends! > I was in my own glory, surrounded by young and old collectors, and gave the > lions share of my attention to the collectors. Kim told us how she'd been a > "nail artist" with a special love for gems, and had recieved her G.G. quite > recently. When I said I'd love to do the same, she urged me on. "It's > easier > than you think!" > We'll see! > > I did come away with my own "special" crystal. When they were leaving, > Matthew and his Dad came over, and after Dad thanked me for my help, > Matthew > held out his hand, and gave me a perfect 1/2" twinned hanksite! That > crystal > now resides in my Favorites cabinet, smelling faintly of sulfur. > > After that we packed up, redolent of hydrogen sulfide and feeling salt > chapped, with a constant breeze blowing our hair in our faces. While I was > packing away our new treasures, Laura, Kim & Nancy wandered over to the > edge > of the collecting area, and out onto the adjoining salt. After getting the > ok to dig in, they pried loose the foamy grey surface salt, and found > enchanting "fairy towers" of dew deposited, snowy white salt "frost!" Now, > these pieces aren't small or cabinet sized, they're HUGE! We have five, > nestled carefully among dessicant packs in our garage, awaiting my > attention. They'll soon make lovely additions to someones *very* dry living > room! We had quite a time finding tubs to transport the still wet, fragile > specimens 250 miles home. > > After returning to the motel and cleaning off the accumulated muck, we had > a > delicious dinner at one of Ridgecrest's fine Chinese buffets, then returned > to watch "Stay Alive!" on cable. > > Bright and early the next morning, we slept through the alarm! So, instead > of a liesurely breakfast, we hurried and made it to Trona in time for the > "Brine Pond" collecting trip. > This was the one we'd made the trip for! The world famous "Searles Lake > Pink" halite would soon fill our hands, stinging them where blisters had > developed in our search for "the Best." > We met up with John at the Lake, and headed out eagerly onto the icy white > halite surface crust. The only way to learn where the best halite (a truly > subjective task!) lies is to break through that crust, a task which raised > the aforementioned blisters. > After finding a delightful array of crystal forms, and very little of the > "Prime" Pink halite, we heard a shout, and saw Kim waving for our > attention! > She'd gotten some help from experienced hands, and had found a deep port > wine colored brine pond, with several "shelves" of halite crystals. These > varied in form, but all were a lovely pale to cranberry pink! > > The time passed too quickly, and our totes filled too fast! I quickly > became > used to the sting of the brine, and took over from Kim in clearing out the > pond. As we'd been told, the halite grew in shelves, and the sharp crystals > could definitely cut! Thankfully, the brine tanned my blisters a deep red > and kept ANY infection away! > John wanderd off, but Laura kept her focus, looking far and wide for great > specimens that would become the delight of friends and customers alike. > Meanwhile, Kim & Nancy had consulted with me on transport problems, > wondering how they'd possibly get they're unexpectedly rich haul of > crystals > home safely. As it turns out, we later heard, they ended up adding an extra > day to the trip to ship thier bounty home! > > Leaving the Lake was truly difficult, especially since we felt like we'd > just found out what to look for. Kim & Nancy gave us hugs, and said fond > goodbyes. Isn't it amazing how fast collecting friends become? Reluctantly, > we carefully packed up for home, and started back across the salt. > > With a little foresight, I'd left some room in the totes, and had left a > tote at the car. On our way back, we collected from abandoned holes, and > had > great luck. We filled every possible corner, and carefully packed for the > trip home to Fresno. > > After slaking our thirst with Pepsi at the gas station conveniently located > across from the Lake entrance, we wandered back to the show, where we > joined > many folks who'd come out for the dealers, and grinned at others who looked > as salted and dusty as we. After a filing lunch of Polish Sausage & Frito > Boats (the 6th & 7th food groups!) and missing our new friends already, we > wandered amongst the now packing dealers, making connections and some > shrewd > deals, reluctant to call it a weekend. > > A tired but uneventful trip back found us planning to return in 2009, and > discussing who we'd like to bring with us! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Thanks again to all of the great folks we met, and all the great folks who > will read this, and know just how we feel. > > Be Well, y'all! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > Fresno, California, U.S.A. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Wed Jan 7 09:26:57 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 09:27:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Message-ID: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Jan 7 09:43:47 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Jan 7 09:44:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> Huh? I googled earthquake alerts for Yellowstone and here is the first result: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/ There is no mention of any evacuation or alert for Yellowstone. This is a hoax (and a bad one at that). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Jan 7 09:58:33 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:06:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> Message-ID: <8CB3F08B0E57CA7-7E8-107A@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Well, it's not a hoax exactly, it is just one individual's self-proclaimed "We should be on the alert!" "Danger!" "Run!" It makes it sound as if it is coming from some public entity, which it is not. His link to the list of all the recorded earthquakes in this Yellowstone swarm (from the USGS website) is nice, though. As you will see from it, the swarm has tapered off, from 100 per day, to single-digit numbers. If you would like to view a good news video story about the earthquake swarm, done by one of our local (Denver; 9News.com) TV stations, here is a link to a 3-minute video clip on their website, including interviews with some USGS seismologists/volcanologists about it: http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?mid=985989631&maven_playlistId=dd17c4689700a1dc29d4e178ef975c3c05b0b3b4 Pete -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:43 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Huh? I googled earthquake alerts for Yellowstone and here is the first result: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/ There is no mention of any evacuation or alert for Yellowstone. This is a hoax (and a bad one at that). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Wed Jan 7 10:10:12 2009 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:10:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> Message-ID: Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm NOT! Kay But then again I could do a webpage lets see that would look like this: Update time = Thu Jan 5, 2009 at 3:29 a.m. Posted by astronomer C. Little on January 5, 2009. "I am informing all State officials around the world for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week it has come to my attention that it was decided to build a hyperspace freeway right trough Earth . All of the warning signs of this are present, UFO Sightings and stars blinking on and off. - I want everyone to leave earth immediately and the space out to 100 AU because of the danger in poisonous rays that can escape from the hundreds of recent earthquakes as earth is destroyed . Code - Yellow shading toward Mauve Signed Chicken Little Lets see come up with a snazzy site name and stick a NASA logo up and then let it start the rounds ..... -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: January 7, 2009 12:44 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Huh? I googled earthquake alerts for Yellowstone and here is the first result: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/ There is no mention of any evacuation or alert for Yellowstone. This is a hoax (and a bad one at that). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jan 7 10:38:48 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:39:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4964F6B8.6090801@rcn.com> Apparently the Exploratorium has a permit to collect from Ocean Beach issued by the Park Superintendent. Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > List, by the way, > going further toward answering my own earlier question, I did a little more > web browsing and I see that quite a lot is known and has been written about > the black sands of that part of the California coast. Here's an excerpt from a > report talking about its economic potential, and even, from San Francisco's > Exploratorium museum, an announcement about a "Black Sand Treasure Hunt" > fi > From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Jan 7 11:04:12 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 11:04:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <8B0DD3A1-DC74-11DD-8B5F-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8CB3F11DCCF06A9-2A8-4EF@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Kreigh & Jim, & the List, Just wanted to say, I tried searching on our USGS website to see if I could locate a report or paper on this, but have not had any luck. I also tried looking in the older, printed volumes we have listing and giving subject indices to USGS published reports (I thought the old-style printed index might find it for me, when the online searching failed), one volume for pre-1962 and one for 1962-1970, but I don't see anything resembling what you are looking for. I would think that this technique, requiring seperatory funnels & U-tubes with stopcocks (not that you couldn't improvise with simpler equipment), might work for relatively small quantity samples of mineral grains, but might not be too workable for separating large quantities of material (of silicon carbide grit, such as Kreigh is talking about), as it would be likely to clog the tubes or valves. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:34 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elutriation Jim,? ? Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build something that worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I am sure it would save me a lot of time experimenting to make things work right.? ? Kreigh? ? ? On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick wrote:? ? > Hi Kreigh.? >? > I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep > finding? > when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > stashed? > it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > find the? > paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch.? >? > I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't > need it.? > Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > start? > separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the? > airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be > modified? > to make that separation.? >? > Jim? >? >? > On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" wrote:? >? >> Jim.? >>? >> That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit and? >> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would like? >> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a? >> single pass would save me a lot of time.? >>? >> Kreigh? >>? >>? >> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> wrote:? >>? >>> For anyon e interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the? >>> 1960's,? >>> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It? >>> consisted? >>> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented? >>> vertically),? >>> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a? >>> smaller? >>> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in? >>> series? >>> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> stopcock? >>> at? >>> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the? >>> outflow? >>> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask.? >>>? >>> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding? >>> into the? >>> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into >>> the? >>> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first >>> U,? >>> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the lightest? >>> ended? >>> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water flow? >>> and? >>> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates were? >>> then? >>> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube.? >>>? >>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but >>> if? >>> anyone can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it.? >>>? >>> Jim Murowchick? >>>? From murowchickj at umkc.edu Wed Jan 7 11:15:26 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Wed Jan 7 11:15:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <8CB3F11DCCF06A9-2A8-4EF@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Pete- I wonder if it might have been a Bureau of Mines pub. My Dad (chief mineralogist for IMC for many years) used to have subscriptions for new publications from the USGS, Bur. of Mines, CSIRO, GSC, and about half the state geological surveys it seemed. He had files for all kinds of things, from staining methods, XRD, collecting sites, etc. I inherited all that when he passed away, and still haven't gone through all of it, but that's where I came across the apparatus. And yes, it was for relatively small amounts of sample. Kreigh--what if you ganged a bunch together so the flows would be in parallel? That might prevent plugging, yet be able to handle larger amounts. There are probably better ways to clean grit, though (seives?) Jim On 1/7/09 1:04 PM, "pmodreski@aol.com" wrote: > Kreigh & Jim, & the List, > > Just wanted to say, I tried searching on our USGS website to see if I > could locate a report or paper on this, but have not had any luck. I > also tried looking in the older, printed volumes we have listing and > giving subject indices to USGS published reports (I thought the > old-style printed index might find it for me, when the online searching > failed), one volume for pre-1962 and one for 1962-1970, but I don't see > anything resembling what you are looking for. > > I would think that this technique, requiring seperatory funnels & > U-tubes with stopcocks (not that you couldn't improvise with simpler > equipment), might work for relatively small quantity samples of mineral > grains, but might not be too workable for separating large quantities > of material (of silicon carbide grit, such as Kreigh is talking about), > as it would be likely to clog the tubes or valves. > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:34 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elutriation > > > Jim,? > ? > Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build something that > worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I am sure it would > save me a lot of time experimenting to make things work right.? > ? > Kreigh? > ? > ? > > > On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick > wrote:? > ? >> Hi Kreigh.? >> ? >> I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep > > finding? >> when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > > stashed? >> it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > > find the? >> paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch.? >> ? >> I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't > > need it.? >> Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > > start? >> separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the? >> airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be > > modified? >> to make that separation.? >> ? >> Jim? >> ? >> ? >> On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > wrote:? >> ? >>> Jim.? >>> ? >>> That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit > and? >>> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would > like? >>> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a? >>> single pass would save me a lot of time.? >>> ? >>> Kreigh? >>> ? >>> ? >>> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> > wrote:? >>> ? >>>> For anyon > e interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the? >>>> 1960's,? >>>> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It? >>>> consisted? >>>> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented? >>>> vertically),? >>>> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a? >>>> smaller? >>>> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in? >>>> series? >>>> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> > stopcock? >>>> at? >>>> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the? >>>> outflow? >>>> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask.? >>>> ? >>>> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding? >>>> into the? >>>> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into >>>> the? >>>> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first >>>> U,? >>>> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the > lightest? >>>> ended? >>>> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water > flow? >>>> and? >>>> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates > were? >>>> then? >>>> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube.? >>>> ? >>>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but >>>> if? >>>> anyone > can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it.? >>>> ? >>>> Jim Murowchick? >>>> ? From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 11:31:52 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Jan 7 11:31:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off Topic Geology in Progress In-Reply-To: <056794FCF23641A3999775569CC46FDC@AXELDESKTOP> References: <567d4e89afdbd50625d4f6346b248762@ptd.net> <056794FCF23641A3999775569CC46FDC@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901071131o3f97776aw4b23eb75bcb42aa7@mail.gmail.com> Hey Axel! Actually, it only takes an AA to be a herring! And even then, it can be in "liberal arts." Now, it DOES take a degree to be a gefilte fish! *GRIN!* And that, preferably, in accounting! *LOL* Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Earl wrote > > >It was too much like taking out a mortgage on a school of herring." > > [Axel] I had no idea that it took a degree to be a herring. I once heard > that sending fish to an exclusive and expensive private school of herring > could turn them into turbot... Any truth in that? ;-)))) > > Seriously, could a vertical upward flow of water be used to separate > different minerals according to size or smoothness? > Or separate grains of minerals from the gangue? > > Perhaps this has been suggested already but I' ve been too busy to do much > rockhounds debating the last week ;-) > > Cheers > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jan 7 11:45:52 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Wed Jan 7 11:46:06 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <8CB3F11DCCF06A9-2A8-4EF@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3F11DCCF06A9-2A8-4EF@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <49650670.6000703@rcn.com> Kreigh, I know you have tried elutriation to separate grit from rock dust resulting from using using the grit to grind down rocks. I am wondering if you obtained any useful grit as I know grit breaks down into smaller sizes with use. I use 60/90 grit continuously to make spheres. Some people seem to think they can reuse the grit after they separate it from the rock dust. I maintain that you can recover the grit but it is of a smaller size and not much use in sphere grinding. pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Kreigh & Jim, & the List, > > Just wanted to say, I tried searching on our USGS website to see if I > could locate a report or paper on this, but have not had any luck. I > also tried looking in the older, printed volumes we have listing and > giving subject indices to USGS published reports (I thought the > old-style printed index might find it for me, when the online > searching failed), one volume for pre-1962 and one for 1962-1970, but > I don't see anything resembling what you are looking for. > > I would think that this technique, requiring seperatory funnels & > U-tubes with stopcocks (not that you couldn't improvise with simpler > equipment), might work for relatively small quantity samples of > mineral grains, but might not be too workable for separating large > quantities of material (of silicon carbide grit, such as Kreigh is > talking about), as it would be likely to clog the tubes or valves. > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:34 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elutriation > > > Jim, > > Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build something > that worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I am sure it > would save me a lot of time experimenting to make things work right. > > Kreigh > > > > > On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick wrote: > >> Hi Kreigh. >> >> I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep > > finding >> when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > > stashed >> it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > > find the >> paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch. >> >> I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't > > need it. >> Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > > start >> separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the >> airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be > > modified >> to make that separation. >> >> Jim >> >> >> On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > wrote: >> >>> Jim. >>> >>> That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit > and >>> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would > like >>> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a >>> single pass would save me a lot of time. >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> > wrote: >>> >>>> For anyon > e interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the >>>> 1960's, >>>> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It >>>> consisted >>>> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented >>>> vertically), >>>> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a >>>> smaller >>>> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in >>>> series >>>> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> > stopcock >>>> at >>>> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the >>>> outflow >>>> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask. >>>> >>>> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding >>>> into the >>>> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into >>>> the >>>> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first >>>> U, >>>> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the > lightest >>>> ended >>>> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water > flow >>>> and >>>> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates > were >>>> then >>>> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. >>>> >>>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but >>>> if >>>> anyone > can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Jim Murowchick >>>> > From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Jan 7 12:40:45 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:41:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> Message-ID: <003601c97108$37191ec0$a54b5c40$@com> That already happened, it was the Vogons :) The earth was destroyed (don't you remember?) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kay Davis Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:10 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm NOT! Kay But then again I could do a webpage lets see that would look like this: Update time = Thu Jan 5, 2009 at 3:29 a.m. Posted by astronomer C. Little on January 5, 2009. "I am informing all State officials around the world for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week it has come to my attention that it was decided to build a hyperspace freeway right trough Earth . All of the warning signs of this are present, UFO Sightings and stars blinking on and off. - I want everyone to leave earth immediately and the space out to 100 AU because of the danger in poisonous rays that can escape from the hundreds of recent earthquakes as earth is destroyed . Code - Yellow shading toward Mauve Signed Chicken Little Lets see come up with a snazzy site name and stick a NASA logo up and then let it start the rounds ..... -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: January 7, 2009 12:44 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Huh? I googled earthquake alerts for Yellowstone and here is the first result: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/ There is no mention of any evacuation or alert for Yellowstone. This is a hoax (and a bad one at that). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Jan 7 12:53:34 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 12:53:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <003601c97108$37191ec0$a54b5c40$@com> References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com> <003601c97108$37191ec0$a54b5c40$@com> Message-ID: <8CB3F21238FDE87-890-2D6@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Exactly. Ford Prefect was the only one left to tell the story, wasn't he? -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 1:40 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited That already happened, it was the Vogons :) The earth was destroyed (don't you remember?) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kay Davis Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:10 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm NOT! Kay But then again I could do a webpage lets see that would look like this: Update time = Thu Jan 5, 2009 at 3:29 a.m. Posted by astronomer C. Little on January 5, 2009. "I am informing all State officials around the world for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week it has come to my attention that it was decided to build a hyperspace freeway right trough Earth . All of the warning signs of this are present, UFO Sightings and stars blinking on and off. - I want everyone to leave earth immediately and the space out to 100 AU because of the danger in poisonous rays that can escape from the hundreds of recent earthquakes as earth is destroyed . Code - Yellow shading toward Mauve Signed Chicken Little Lets see come up with a snazzy site name and stick a NASA logo up and then let it start the rounds ..... -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: January 7, 2009 12:44 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Huh? I googled earthquake alerts for Yellowstone and here is the first result: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/ There is no mention of any evacuation or alert for Yellowstone. This is a hoax (and a bad one at that). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:27 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited Guess I had better postpone the ski trip to ski among elk and bison in their natural habitat. This geologist wants everyone within a hundred miles of the park to evacuate. Posted on Jan. 5th: http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/yellowstone.htm dave -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Jan 7 13:28:21 2009 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jan 7 13:28:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <8CB3F21238FDE87-890-2D6@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB3F0446D5D124-C68-3AC@WEBMAIL-MZ13.sysops.aol.com> <002401c970ef$7f7f3eb0$7e7dbc10$@com><003601c97108$37191ec0$a54b5c40$@com> <8CB3F21238FDE87-890-2D6@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Better destroyed than having to listen to that Vogon poetry! GcB -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 1:40 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited That already happened, it was the Vogons :) The earth was destroyed (don't you remember?) Tim Fisher From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 7 13:28:56 2009 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Jan 7 13:29:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nickle/Chromium Message-ID: <010720092128.12177.49651E980004231300002F9122216128369B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9D0A02090E99060B9D0E990B0A@att.net> Dear List: In 2001, I entered my agent's office to pay my vehicle insurance, and spied a lump of bright metal, with a hackly surface, on her desk. Since I was relatively new to collecting, I asked what it was. I was informed that her son had worked in Charleston, SC, and had picked up several pieces of this material, which was Soviet Russian Chromium, out of crates left in the yard of the closed McElroy plating plant. If I remember correctly, a jeweler friend told me that to plate gold or silver, baser metals must be first plated with nickel. I think that "Chrome" bumpers may have a combination of nickel, then chromium plated on the outside. Additionally, I have purchased cheap rings, which under daylight, showed brass on the wear points, but had been plated, and set with glass or a cheap stone. I never knew if the shiney white stuff was nickel or chromium, but it was probably the cheaper of the two metals. EJW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Wed Jan 7 15:00:27 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jan 7 15:00:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> > Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned > > http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm > > NOT! This is eerily reminiscent of the fictional but plausible pre-eruption scenario detailed in the recent novel, "Yellowstone Farewell". I don't recall the details, but basically there were political motivations and doubters in the chain of command such that no warning was given, when one geologist smelled trouble brewing. Of course in real life, the authorities would... Hmm... :-) Seriously, I like to keep an open mind, absorbing the data without being quick to mock or discount any sources. Even "kooks" are human beings with points of view and feelings... Cheers, Alan Silverstein From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 7 15:29:24 2009 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Wed Jan 7 15:29:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <49650670.6000703@rcn.com> Message-ID: <160969.73408.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would be surprised if it worked as described.? My initial concern was turbulence in the u-shaped areas.? Not a big deal, I guess, but fine materials might settle there with the coarser material. This though sounds just wrong: "Each glass tube had a smaller inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in series with a rubber tube" Smaller diameter would give a higher flow rate but later stages have to have lower flow rates to allow the coarsest grains from the previous stage to settle. I propose the following design: mixed grit in sealed bucket ?????????? _____________ ?????????? |???????????????????? ======= water inlet with regulated flow ?????????? |???????????????????? | ?????????? |??? ???????????????? | ?????????? |???????????????????? | ?????????? |? ___________| ?????????? | | ?????????? | |? ?????????? | | ?????????? | | ?????????? | |??????????? | ????? ? ?? ====? rock dust overflows to waste ?????????? | |??????????? |??????????? | ?????????? | |??????????? |??????????? | ?????????? | |??????????? |??????????? | ?????????? | |??????????? |??????????? | ?????????? | |??????? ??? \?????? ??? ==== valve/outlet (fine) ?????????? | |?????? ? ??? \???????? / ?????? ? ? | |?????? ?? ??? |?????? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ??? |?????? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ??? |?????? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ??? |?????? | ?????????? | |??????? ? ??? \?? ?? ==== valve/outlet? (medium) ?????????? | |????? ?? ?? ?? \??? / ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |?????? ?? ? ??? |?? | ?????????? | |????? ?? ?? ? ? \?? ====valve/outlet (coarse) ?????????? | |?????? ?? ?? ??? | | ?????????? L=========J First open the upper valve and drain out the fine grit.? Then you drain out the medium grit, and finally, you drain out the coarse grit. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Wed Jan 7 15:36:36 2009 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Wed Jan 7 15:36:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <49650670.6000703@rcn.com> Message-ID: <126576.86436.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, that looks horrible. Basically, it's a series of pipe sections connected to larger sections above using reducers.? At each junction there's a ball valve to redirect flow to a collection container. (Is there a different name for a pipe reducer when you use it to make a pipe bigger?) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 7 17:28:00 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 7 17:27:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <49650670.6000703@rcn.com> Message-ID: <962224EE-DD23-11DD-96D1-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Jay, You are correct that the grit breaks down to finer grits during use. Recycling three tumbler loads of coarse grit (60-80) might give me two loads of finer grit (120-220) and part of a load of fine stuff (320-600). The advantage is that I usually only need to purchase coarse grit. But recycling with a single stage elutriator is somewhat of a pain. I usually dump the grit at the end of a tumbling stage into a big bucket and have a recycle party when it gets full. I don't do all that much tumbling anymore, so it takes me a few years to fill the recycle bucket. Kreigh On Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009, at 14:45 America/Detroit, Jay Bates wrote: > Kreigh, > > I know you have tried elutriation to separate grit from rock dust > resulting from using using the grit to grind down rocks. I am > wondering if you obtained any useful grit as I know grit breaks down > into smaller sizes with use. I use 60/90 grit continuously to make > spheres. Some people seem to think they can reuse the grit after they > separate it from the rock dust. I maintain that you can recover the > grit but it is of a smaller size and not much use in sphere grinding. > > pmodreski@aol.com wrote: >> Kreigh & Jim, & the List, >> >> Just wanted to say, I tried searching on our USGS website to see if I >> could locate a report or paper on this, but have not had any luck. I >> also tried looking in the older, printed volumes we have listing and >> giving subject indices to USGS published reports (I thought the >> old-style printed index might find it for me, when the online >> searching failed), one volume for pre-1962 and one for 1962-1970, but >> I don't see anything resembling what you are looking for. >> >> I would think that this technique, requiring seperatory funnels & >> U-tubes with stopcocks (not that you couldn't improvise with simpler >> equipment), might work for relatively small quantity samples of >> mineral grains, but might not be too workable for separating large >> quantities of material (of silicon carbide grit, such as Kreigh is >> talking about), as it would be likely to clog the tubes or valves. >> >> Pete >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:34 pm >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elutriation >> >> >> Jim, Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build >> something that worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I >> am sure it would save me a lot of time experimenting to make things >> work right. Kreigh >> >> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> wrote: >>> Hi Kreigh. I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that >>> I keep > >> finding >>> when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > >> stashed >>> it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > >> find the >>> paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a >>> sketch. I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I >>> didn't > >> need it. >>> Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > >> start >>> separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of >>> the airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might >>> be > >> modified >>> to make that separation. Jim On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh >>> Tomaszewski" >> wrote: >>> >>>> Jim. That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling >>>> grit >> and >>>> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would >> like >>>> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a >>>> single pass would save me a lot of time. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan >>>> 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> For anyon >> e interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the >>>>> 1960's, that described an elutriation system for mineral >>>>> separation. It consisted of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped >>>>> glass tubes (oriented vertically), each with a stopcock at the >>>>> bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a smaller inside diameter >>>>> than the one upstream, and they were connected in series with a >>>>> rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> >> stopcock >>>>> at the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the >>>>> outflow end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a >>>>> collection flask. With a slow stream of water flowing through the >>>>> system (feeding into the separatory funnel, a slurry containing >>>>> the sample was drizzled into the separatory funnel. The heavies >>>>> collected at the bottom of the first U, lighter minerals moved on >>>>> to the second or third U, and the >> lightest >>>>> ended up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the >>>>> water >> flow >>>>> and gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the >>>>> separates >> were >>>>> then emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube. >>>>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, >>>>> but if anyone >> can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it. >>>>> Jim Murowchick >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 7 17:50:46 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 7 17:50:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <8CB3F11DCCF06A9-2A8-4EF@WEBMAIL-DY21.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Pete, I first ran across Elutriation in "Separation of Abrasives on a Laboratory Scale" by G. Dallas Hanna included in "Amateur Telescope Making (Book Three)", starting on page 269, published by Scientific American, Albert G. Ingalls, Editor. BTW, I highly recommend the three volume set to any lapidary. Astronomers polish surfaces to tolerances under a wavelength of light and can teach us amateurs a lot. A footnote in the paper refers to "Short-column Hydraulic Elutriator for Subsieve Sizes" by S. R. B. Cooke, U.S. Bur. Mines Report of Investigation No. 3333, Ore Dressing Studies, pp 37-51, figs. 5-19, Feb 1937. It noted the paper was in mimeograph format, reported efficiency of nearly 100% with simple construction, and included extensive references to previous literature. If you can find the paper I sure would love to get a copy. At least you now know what you are looking for. Cheers! Kreigh On Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009, at 14:04 America/Detroit, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Kreigh & Jim, & the List, > > Just wanted to say, I tried searching on our USGS website to see if I > could locate a report or paper on this, but have not had any luck. I > also tried looking in the older, printed volumes we have listing and > giving subject indices to USGS published reports (I thought the > old-style printed index might find it for me, when the online > searching failed), one volume for pre-1962 and one for 1962-1970, but > I don't see anything resembling what you are looking for. > > I would think that this technique, requiring seperatory funnels & > U-tubes with stopcocks (not that you couldn't improvise with simpler > equipment), might work for relatively small quantity samples of > mineral grains, but might not be too workable for separating large > quantities of material (of silicon carbide grit, such as Kreigh is > talking about), as it would be likely to clog the tubes or valves. > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 9:34 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Elutriation > > > Jim,? > ? > Your description was clear enough I'm sure I could build something > that worked, but I would still like to see the paper as I am sure it > would save me a lot of time experimenting to make things work right.? > ? > Kreigh? > ? > ? > > > On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 22:35 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick > wrote:? > ? >> Hi Kreigh.? >> ? >> I'm still looking for the paper--it's one of those that I keep > > finding? >> when I don't need it, but when I want it, I can't remember where I > > stashed? >> it. I can probably draw a sketch of the system, though, if I can't > > find the? >> paper. I'll look for it for a few more days, then I'll make a sketch.? >> ? >> I was going to make the system a few years ago, but found I didn't > > need it.? >> Now, I have a student looking at soils in the Bahamas, and we might > > start? >> separating out the very fine materials to determine the source of the? >> airborne dust components. I think the elutriation system might be > > modified? >> to make that separation.? >> ? >> Jim? >> ? >> ? >> On 1/6/09 9:29 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > wrote:? >> ? >>> Jim.? >>> ? >>> That is pretty cool. I use a single stage to recycle tumbling grit > and? >>> have to make multiple passes with decreasing water flow. I would > like? >>> to see the paper. Being able to separate multiple grit sizes in a? >>> single pass would save me a lot of time.? >>> ? >>> Kreigh? >>> ? >>> ? >>> On Tuesday, Jan 6, 2009, at 12:40 America/Detroit, Jim Murowchick >> > wrote:? >>> ? >>>> For anyon > e interested, there was a USGS paper, probably from the? >>>> 1960's,? >>>> that described an elutriation system for mineral separation. It? >>>> consisted? >>>> of a series of tall (10-15"?) U-shaped glass tubes (oriented? >>>> vertically),? >>>> each with a stopcock at the bottom of the U. Each glass tube had a? >>>> smaller? >>>> inside diameter than the one upstream, and they were connected in? >>>> series? >>>> with a rubber tube. At the start, a separatory funnel with a >>> > stopcock? >>>> at? >>>> the bottom held water, and was at the highest elevation. At the? >>>> outflow? >>>> end, a rubber tube from the last U drained into a collection flask.? >>>> ? >>>> With a slow stream of water flowing through the system (feeding? >>>> into the? >>>> separatory funnel, a slurry containing the sample was drizzled into >>>> the? >>>> separatory funnel. The heavies collected at the bottom of the first >>>> U,? >>>> lighter minerals moved on to the second or third U, and the > lightest? >>>> ended? >>>> up in the collection flask at the end. Fine-tuning of the water > flow? >>>> and? >>>> gradient controlled the separation efficiency, and the separates > were? >>>> then? >>>> emptied through the stopcock at the bottom of each U tube.? >>>> ? >>>> I'll try to find the paper, in case anyone wants the specifics, but >>>> if? >>>> anyone > can provide the reference info, I'd appreciate it.? >>>> ? >>>> Jim Murowchick? >>>> ? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Wed Jan 7 18:19:08 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Wed Jan 7 18:19:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <126576.86436.qm@web82501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Flint- RE: tube diameters--yeah, I was thinking about it after I sent the description, and it seems like the the diameters should increase downstream, so the fastest flow would would occur with the largest or densest particles in the first U, and by the time the fines were collecting, the flow would be slower and they could settle out. As for not working, apparently it did. It was used to make mineral separates from small samples of mixed mineral grains. There's a similar apparatus that uses recirculating heavy liquid to concentrate zircons for analysis (radiometric dating). Since I haven't seen these things in labs all over the place, I suspect that they are not as efficient or easy to use as sieves or other methods of mineral separation. But for tinkerers, DIYers, and unfunded academics, it might work well enough. I have a project coming up that might be able to make use of it. Jim On 1/7/09 5:36 PM, "Flint Smith" wrote: > Well, that looks horrible. > > Basically, it's a series of pipe sections connected to larger sections above > using reducers.? At each junction there's a ball valve to redirect flow to a > collection container. > > (Is there a different name for a pipe reducer when you use it to make a pipe > bigger?) > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Jan 8 00:10:57 2009 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Thu Jan 8 00:11:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4965B511.9090508@hal-pc.org> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Pete, > > I first ran across Elutriation in "Separation of Abrasives on a > Laboratory Scale" by G. Dallas Hanna included in "Amateur Telescope > Making (Book Three)", starting on page 269, published by Scientific > American, Albert G. Ingalls, Editor. > > BTW, I highly recommend the three volume set to any lapidary. > Astronomers polish surfaces to tolerances under a wavelength of light > and can teach us amateurs a lot. > > A footnote in the paper refers to "Short-column Hydraulic Elutriator > for Subsieve Sizes" by S. R. B. Cooke, U.S. Bur. Mines Report of > Investigation No. 3333, Ore Dressing Studies, pp 37-51, figs. 5-19, > Feb 1937. It noted the paper was in mimeograph format, reported > efficiency of nearly 100% with simple construction, and included > extensive references to previous literature. > > If you can find the paper I sure would love to get a copy. At least > you now know what you are looking for. > > Cheers! > > Kreigh > > Google the title "Short-column Hydraulic Elutriator" and you will find lots of material, including a free pdf copy of the original paper. john From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Thu Jan 8 04:18:28 2009 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Thu Jan 8 04:18:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> References: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Kay said: >> Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned >> >> http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm >> >> NOT! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Alain Replied > This is eerily reminiscent of the fictional but plausible pre-eruption > scenario detailed in the recent novel, "Yellowstone Farewell". I don't > recall the details, but basically there were political motivations and > Doubters in the chain of command such that no warning was given, when > one geologist smelled trouble brewing. > Of course in real life, the authorities would... Hmm... :-) > Seriously, I like to keep an open mind, absorbing the data without being > quick to mock or discount any sources. Even "kooks" are human beings > with points of view and feelings... > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ While in theory I would agree, unfortunately the signal to noise ratio from kooks is so high that unless one wants to go nuts you have to basically discount them. Look at wine, one year it's good for you then next not and the year after it's good again. The way I see it is first look at the person saying something's track record, In this case Google turned up a couple of citations from Australia related to geology and cc saunders. I then look at the site said information is posted on (http://www.worldwidewaterplan.com/). While they have a relatively good marketing speak, the scientific basis for the claims made are even more dubious, and to be frank they fall into what I consider the "Air headed tree hugger, until the coconut falls out and brains them camp" Like any "REAL" scientific research one has to take a step back and ask is it repeatable by other reputable scientists / originations? In this case the answer is no. While I agree that there have been many documented cases where governments and quasi governmental organizations have tried to stonewall information, one must look at the number of times individuals have made wild claims vs the number of times that those claims came true. Thus signal to noise ratio. It's like earthquake forecasting, you can find lots of reputable people who will say that San Francisco and LA is going to get it one day... but that the odds of it being today are negligible. However if you go looking you will find a couple of people with boards held aloft saying it's going to be today or tomorrow.... The difference is that with the internet, the kooks can reach a wider audience, look more official and not offend my nose with their general lack of hygiene...... In any case looking at his statements they don't pass the smell test IMO Kay If I get laid off I should found a site warning that the Vorlons are coming..... From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 05:20:42 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 8 05:20:44 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: References: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> Message-ID: You couldn't even come with a good government conspiracy theory to hide a predicted eruption. The population density in the area is so low that an evacuation would hardly be a major disaster. The only towns are West Yellowstone and Jackson Hole, not exactly major metropolises. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jan 8 06:06:20 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 8 06:06:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited In-Reply-To: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> References: <20090107230027.ABCDB1CC47@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <91281BCA9987498B8C8F3C7788B78A34@AXELDESKTOP> We know that Yellowston is a potentially catastrophic event waiting to happen... the "waiting" can go on for another 10.000 years or more. The really big eruptions like Tamboa, Krakatoa, Santorini and recently Mt Saint Helens and Mt Pinatubo don't sneak up on you... They give warnings often days, weeks and even months in advance. Here in Belgium we have a bulge too... we call it the bulge. Not to boast or anything but if you guys say you have "a bulge", we have to say that we got THE bulge. A non-volcanic bulge but nevertheless... ;-))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Silverstein > Verzonden: donderdag 8 januari 2009 0:00 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone revisited > > > Well the National Parks service sounds real concerned > > > > http://www.nps.gov/yell/conditions.htm > > > > NOT! > > This is eerily reminiscent of the fictional but plausible pre-eruption > scenario detailed in the recent novel, "Yellowstone Farewell". I don't > recall the details, but basically there were political motivations and > doubters in the chain of command such that no warning was given, when > one geologist smelled trouble brewing. > > Of course in real life, the authorities would... Hmm... :-) > > Seriously, I like to keep an open mind, absorbing the data without being > quick to mock or discount any sources. Even "kooks" are human beings > with points of view and feelings... > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Thu Jan 8 15:29:16 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Thu Jan 8 15:29:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting trip 2008 - Montana Message-ID: <7E6DFAFB-B3E4-4470-8CCE-84B0318183A6@roadrunner.com> Hi Everyone, Kicking a few rocks on Prince of Wales Island, Alaska: Nathan and others promoted a good idea. While many of us are stuck in the doldrums of winter, perhaps we can inspire some rockhounding enthusiasm by reporting on collecting trips of 2008. I appreciated Nathan's report on the Snowbird Mine, MT, especially as he mentioned, he dragged me up there with him. I like that unusual deposit with its giant crude quartz crystals and pegmatitic texture quartz, calcite and fluorite. Collecting parisite, quartz and fluorite is getting to be kind of tough, but it still is a good locality to visit. It's only a 3 1/2 hour drive and hike from my house, so I do get up there every couple of years. It has been quite a while since I last wrote a trip report for the Rockhounds list, been too busy with too many projects to write articles much anymore. Time to get back into it, so here is a short one for the armchair collecting interest. I've been trying to get my collecting years started by getting out in the spring into the mines of Idaho or Montana. Often in April, if the winter was not too severe and spring warm so that the snow was melting, exposing some rocks. Spring of 2008 was not a good one for that. Winter was long (3 times average snowfall in much of Idaho) and spring was slow and cold. I didn't make it out until I went up to Prince of Wales Island, Alaska to complete a sculpture project for Gary McWilliams of Stone Arts of Alaska at Craig. I love that place and could stay there. While on the island, I did some more prospecting (this was the third year in a row). This year, my trip was only for two weeks, and that was the last two weeks of May, so the mountains were still covered with snow which left the many roadcuts and quarries and lower mines as the only places to explore. I was too busy to get out often, but did get out a few times. One of the most interesting trips was to the It Mine on the Kasaan Peninsula on the eastern side of the island. Much of the northern part of the peninsula is lands owned by one of the Native Alaskan corporations and most of it is closed. That's too bad, because there are several copper mines in skarns with potential for malachite and other copper minerals as well as epidote, orange calcite, grossular- andradite and other minerals. Skarns are one of my favorite rock types to explore. The It Mine is northwest of the small village of Kasaan, and the roads are open; I expect that when logging in that area is finished the roads will be closed there, but maybe not, there are areas of National Forest mixed with the Native Corporation lands, so maybe the area will stay open. The day I visited the mine was relatively warm -- 70s F and partly sunny. Access is via a hike down a steep hill through a clear cut with a lot of slash on the ground then across a flat swampy area, so it was a hot sweaty battle to get to the mine. It was necessary to climb up over old rotten logs and stumble through the limbs, tree tops and junk wood, meanwhile, avoiding the wet spots and mud holes. With the time I had, I was only able to visit the main mine area which has several long dumps on a flat next to a shaft and an adit (the workings hidden in the brush and logging debris). There are more workings nearby, but I did not even see the dumps in the rugged terrain of the adjoining hillsides. The dumps were coarse, composed of large pieces of massive epidote, diopside, calcite and garnet. Much of this was vuggy, but these crystal-lined cavities were typically filled with white calcite. Grossular-andradite crystals were mostly small; the largest I saw was about 1/4 inch, except, I did see one crystal about an inch across that was a broken crystal frozen in the calcite. Epidote was also mostly small crystals, with diverging groups up to more than an inch long being scarce, and I did not find any that would make decent specimens. There were grossular-andradite clusters coated with tiny dark green chlorite. In some cavities these are covered with "stalactitic" growths of quartz in parallel growth probably reflecting growth controlled by the calcite that filled the cavity. Rutile(?) occurred as tiny black needles on crude quartz crystals. Pyrite was abundant as micro to small cubes and pyritohedrons on quartz and other minerals and sometimes as large crystals to more than an inch. I did manage to get one nice cluster, frozen in calcite that etched out to be a small miniature of complex cube-octahedron combinations. Titanite was uncommon as tiny to small thin, white crystals with diopside and the garnet. Diopside was present as masses and spongy masses of subhedral to euhedral crystals, tiny to small. Chalcopyrite forms masses adjoining cavities so that broad crystal faces (up to at least 2 inches across) form the sides of some cavities. These are always coated with tiny crystals of chlorite, pyrite and magnetite. There also was uralite as tiny crystals of actinolite replacing small crystals of diopside(?); acctinolite in the byssolite habit, and tiny crystals of pyrite and magnetite on the chalcopyrite were present. I did not see any secondary minerals, I'd hoped for some malachite. Gary did give me one small piece off a sample he had found several years ago. This had divergent groups of malachite needles with small calcite crystals and tiny dendritic copper groups included in some of the calcite crystals. A small quarry alongside the access road was also in a skarn showing vuggy massive diopside and epidote. There were no open cavities, only crystal lined cavities filled with white or orange calcite. I took three fist-size pieces that looked like they may have euhedral diopside crystals and, back home was surprised to find tiny clusters of molybdenite in one, but only poor quality diopside and garnet. I was not able to transport much weight home, but considering that I did have several days remaining before I left, I could do some acid etching. Thus, I carried out a day-pack load of selected pieces and etched out the calcite back at the studio. Mostly I etched out only enough calcite to determine if there were good crystals in the cavities so that the crystals remained protected. These pieces I took home and completed the calcite removal here, recovering several fairly nice specimens from micro to miniature. Looking at the specimens obtained on this expedition to the It Mine makes me want to go back. Spending lots of money on HCl to etch out calcite seems to be a bad habit of mine. I had a little more successful collecting on the island last summer, but that's another story. Regards, Lanny From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 8 19:32:29 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 8 19:31:56 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Elutriation In-Reply-To: <4965B511.9090508@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <247397D0-DDFE-11DD-B81D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Thank you John! I never expected to find the original paper online. My hat's off to minsocam! Kreigh On Thursday, Jan 8, 2009, at 03:10 America/Detroit, jb wrote: > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> Pete, >> >> I first ran across Elutriation in "Separation of Abrasives on a >> Laboratory Scale" by G. Dallas Hanna included in "Amateur Telescope >> Making (Book Three)", starting on page 269, published by Scientific >> American, Albert G. Ingalls, Editor. >> >> BTW, I highly recommend the three volume set to any lapidary. >> Astronomers polish surfaces to tolerances under a wavelength of light >> and can teach us amateurs a lot. >> >> A footnote in the paper refers to "Short-column Hydraulic Elutriator >> for Subsieve Sizes" by S. R. B. Cooke, U.S. Bur. Mines Report of >> Investigation No. 3333, Ore Dressing Studies, pp 37-51, figs. 5-19, >> Feb 1937. It noted the paper was in mimeograph format, reported >> efficiency of nearly 100% with simple construction, and included >> extensive references to previous literature. >> >> If you can find the paper I sure would love to get a copy. At least >> you now know what you are looking for. >> >> Cheers! >> >> Kreigh >> >> > Google the title "Short-column Hydraulic Elutriator" and you will find > lots of material, including a free pdf copy of the original paper. > > > > john > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 07:11:04 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 9 07:11:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] More Yellowstone hysteria Message-ID: The report displays the usual reporter innumeracy in that he thinks that a 3.9 is just sort of a 5 on a logarithmic scale. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Jan 9 17:05:46 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:05:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii volcano update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4967F46A.6060908@hawaiiantel.net> Hi Group, Bill and I just got back from a trip to the Jagger Museum and Hawaii Volcano Observatory to see what the vent looks like in Halema'uma'u Crater. For those of you who have been to Volcanoes National Park, the vent can be seen on the far side of the crater from the lanai outside the Volcano Hotel, but the best view is from the overlook outside the Jagger Museum. The Crater Rim Drive that goes around the rim of the crater (duh) has been closed since last March because of toxic steam, smoke and ash that blows constantly from the vent. Again, for those of you who've been there, the wooden walkway from the parking lot half way around the crater has been almost completely destroyed by the explosions from the vent; the crater overlook viewing platforms were mostly destroyed. When the eruption began on March 19, 2008, debris covered an area of about 75 acres. The hole today is about as wide across as the length of a football field (US gridiron). The morning was sunny and clear (after weeks of record rain) and the biggest difference we observed from earlier trips there was that the column of steam from the vent was white and gently rising, whereas between March and December the material coming out was pumping with enormous energy and was tan and gray with ash and other debris. There was a ferocity to the belching cloud and a low roar could be heard. Today there was a faint odor of sulfur but the beautiful snow-white cloud drifted peacefully. White-tailed tropic birds sailed not far from the vent. Since December the vent has shown signs of calming down and some geologists are suggesting it may be shutting down. The following link is to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald, the Hilo daily newspaper. I've selected the article titled "Kilauea gas vent now pau?" "Pau" in Hawaiian means "over" or "finished." http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2009/01/08/local_news/local02.txt The next URL is for the USGS site that gives pictures and descriptions of activity at Kilauea. If you want to look back at earlier pictures, clock on "Image Archive" near the top of the page and go back to March 2008 to follow the development of the crater vent: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html Aloha, Kitty From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 9 17:31:30 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:31:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii volcano update In-Reply-To: <4967F46A.6060908@hawaiiantel.net> References: <4967F46A.6060908@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <006701c972c3$2a7e9de0$7f7bd9a0$@com> Wow, I remember that walkway. I have some good pics of the little steam plume at the bottom of the crater I took in 1994. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:06 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii volcano update Hi Group, Bill and I just got back from a trip to the Jagger Museum and Hawaii Volcano Observatory to see what the vent looks like in Halema'uma'u Crater. For those of you who have been to Volcanoes National Park, the vent can be seen on the far side of the crater from the lanai outside the Volcano Hotel, but the best view is from the overlook outside the Jagger Museum. The Crater Rim Drive that goes around the rim of the crater (duh) has been closed since last March because of toxic steam, smoke and ash that blows constantly from the vent. Again, for those of you who've been there, the wooden walkway from the parking lot half way around the crater has been almost completely destroyed by the explosions from the vent; the crater overlook viewing platforms were mostly destroyed. When the eruption began on March 19, 2008, debris covered an area of about 75 acres. The hole today is about as wide across as the length of a football field (US gridiron). The morning was sunny and clear (after weeks of record rain) and the biggest difference we observed from earlier trips there was that the column of steam from the vent was white and gently rising, whereas between March and December the material coming out was pumping with enormous energy and was tan and gray with ash and other debris. There was a ferocity to the belching cloud and a low roar could be heard. Today there was a faint odor of sulfur but the beautiful snow-white cloud drifted peacefully. White-tailed tropic birds sailed not far from the vent. Since December the vent has shown signs of calming down and some geologists are suggesting it may be shutting down. The following link is to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald, the Hilo daily newspaper. I've selected the article titled "Kilauea gas vent now pau?" "Pau" in Hawaiian means "over" or "finished." http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2009/01/08/local_news/local02.t xt The next URL is for the USGS site that gives pictures and descriptions of activity at Kilauea. If you want to look back at earlier pictures, clock on "Image Archive" near the top of the page and go back to March 2008 to follow the development of the crater vent: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html Aloha, Kitty -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From cornish at tfon.com Sat Jan 10 08:54:59 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 10 08:55:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Collecting Trip 2008 Message-ID: <1C5AA0E4A0F946858C4BB541D3A448D6@D1Y2LBC1> Hi Lanny, I wanted to drop a quick line here to thank you for sharing your collecting adventure with all of us. It made for a good read and I'm thankful you took the time to share. Have a great day! John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 10 12:27:33 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 10 12:31:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens References: <9F01D7BF09C34C618499A4DA67B0A90E@LarryRush> Message-ID: <102D6D7BABF64B58A0B24287CAE497B4@LarryRush> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web site. The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my personal collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new Miniatures and Thumbnails!! http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of forms.......... www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm Larry Rush From the_cheshire_cat at mchsi.com Sat Jan 10 19:00:10 2009 From: the_cheshire_cat at mchsi.com (the_cheshire_cat@mchsi.com) Date: Sat Jan 10 19:00:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sites Message-ID: <011120090300.14108.496960BA0003C0C50000371C223245003003010CD2079C080C03BF9B0E0CA10A9D07089C0A080CA10A089B@mchsi.com> Hi, my husband and I have been reading the forum for a while, but never have wrote in. I have had a natural attraction to fossils, minerals, and basically anything I can pick up since I was a kid. But we are relatively new to actual rockhounding. We have just moved from Wisconsin to Central Valley California and are wondering if anyone would be willing to share information about some reliable sites in our area. We have collected some minerals but nothing really exciting. Thank you in advance. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 10 19:39:05 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 10 19:38:38 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} In-Reply-To: <102D6D7BABF64B58A0B24287CAE497B4@LarryRush> Message-ID: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is a not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this is an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to better quality are all viable alternatives. I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go into storage, and less are on display. The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. I am also running out of space. I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens much too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each other). Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, and specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull out a book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in the garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I started late). How are you dealing with running out of space? Kreigh On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have > a free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web > site. The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in > my personal collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of > new Miniatures and Thumbnails!! > > http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html > > > (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) > Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) > > BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is > amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of > forms.......... > > www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm > > Larry Rush > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 10 19:45:26 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 10 19:45:50 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size In-Reply-To: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <49696B56.8030805@verizon.net> > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. > > I am also running out of space. Consider finding a small local museum, school, or club where you can install a display on "extended loan" (what was once called "permanent loan" in museum parlance, perhaps still in some places; until a number of us began deprecating the term as illogical). Of course, there are risks to such an arrangement, such as theft or loss of material, and changes in administrations that find you receiving messages to "get those rocks out of here" within 3 days. Installing such a display can be rewarding, but requires explicit written agreements and vigilance on the part of the lender--as well as a cordial and open communication line between you and the institution of interest. Good luck, Don From everbeek at ptd.net Sat Jan 10 19:54:29 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Sat Jan 10 19:54:32 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} In-Reply-To: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. > > I am also running out of space. > Years ago I purchased some minerals from the widow of a fellow I wish I'd met. Perhaps some of you knew him -- Leonard Gerhart of Reading, PA. His house and basement were full of minerals, so much so that a narrow path led through the living room to the kitchen. He had a simple solution to the room problem -- he bought another house and used it for storage. You can imagine what it looked like. The stairs to the second floor were lined with boxes on both sides. The bathroom was at the head of the stairs, and if you stepped into it you were greeted with more boxes and two 55-gal drums of specimens (mostly fern fossils from St. Clair, PA) in the bathtub. It was quite an experience, and I've often wished I'd met Leanard. He must have been fascinating and strange. Cheers- Earl From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Sat Jan 10 21:45:11 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Sat Jan 10 21:45:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Collecting Trip 2008 In-Reply-To: <1C5AA0E4A0F946858C4BB541D3A448D6@D1Y2LBC1> References: <1C5AA0E4A0F946858C4BB541D3A448D6@D1Y2LBC1> Message-ID: <9BAAD14A-2F01-43C5-BA52-064FA2EBC548@roadrunner.com> Hi John, Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. Lanny On Jan 10, 2009, at 8:54 AM, John Cornish wrote: > Hi Lanny, > > I wanted to drop a quick line here to thank you for sharing your > collecting adventure with all of us. It made for a good read and I'm > thankful you took the time to share. Have a great day! > > John > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Jan 11 08:21:57 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 11 08:22:09 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size In-Reply-To: <49696B56.8030805@verizon.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <49696B56.8030805@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CB421FDBA06202-83C-EA3@WEBMAIL-DY19.sysops.aol.com> Don, That doesn't work either, as you just eng up filling the space with more rocks. I thought the same, give them to the surveys' museum and make room; hah, works for a couple of years, but I am back to a trail through the garage. Of course if I quit feild collecting it would help. Half of my collection I never get to see, it is under the bed, in core hole boxes or some where out of sight. Buy the house next door, turn it into your own museum, is the best solution. I thought about collecting last year, but most everything was fossils, and this is a mineral forum. Even with my injuries it was still a good year collecting. dave -----Original Message----- From: DonH To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:45 pm Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative.? > > I am also running out of space.? ? Consider finding a small local museum, school, or club where you can install a display on "extended loan" (what was once called "permanent loan" in museum parlance, perhaps still in some places; until a number of us began deprecating the term as illogical).? ? Of course, there are risks to such an arrangement, such as theft or loss of material, and changes in ad ministrations that find you receiving messages to "get those rocks out of here" within 3 days. Installing such a display can be rewarding, but requires explicit written agreements and vigilance on the part of the lender--as well as a cordial and open communication line between you and the institution of interest.? ? Good luck,? Don? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Jan 11 08:33:37 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Jan 11 08:34:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><49696B56.8030805@verizon.net> <8CB421FDBA06202-83C-EA3@WEBMAIL-DY19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <6AE93360937541BB90860CD2DDD15A4A@Notebook> Dave, This is a ROCKHOUNDING forum. Fossils are fair game. John ----- Original Message ----- From: > I thought about collecting last year, but most everything was fossils, and this is a mineral forum. From ajs at frii.com Sun Jan 11 08:41:39 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Sun Jan 11 08:41:41 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} In-Reply-To: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20090111164139.2DBD81CC42@io.frii.com> > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. Kreigh et al, I don't have another alternative for you, just some thoughts. I'm also afflicted to the point that my cup (and house) runneth over, which surprises me because I never thought I would get to this point. So, some random thoughts... Perhaps repeating myself from past postings... - I'm not a canonical collector, I just like pretty and interesting rocks, which means I can never declare victory and be done :-) - Collecting is more fun than processing, and processing is more fun than curating. So, it's easy to get behind in curating... - But, I disdain people who collect a lot of rocks in the field, and then let them stagnate in buckets or boxes without every doing anything with them back at home. It's time-consuming, but fun, to wash, clean, sort, etc, every rock I bring home, and I do "honor" my collected rocks this way. Of course, when any rock is done running this course of refinement, I'm still "stuck" with a finished rock, and the question of, what to do with it next? - I have attractive rocks sitting loose, in bowls, on mats, etc, all around my house, and I really enjoy looking at them, more than I dislike dusting them, or having to give up space to them. That's nice. - I promised myself years ago I would never go commercial -- I have no desire to try to make money selling any rocks. When collecting, I try to be judicious, but I find that I can give away on a regular basis just about as many rocks as I want to spare, through the local club, on Halloween, to my dental hygienist to use as a backdrop for her jewelry business, you name it. - So my processing and curating consists a lot of cleaning, improving, polishing, etc; enjoying looking at every rock for the Nth time to decide if I want to keep it; and dividing the stones into keepers and give-aways. I keep the keepers and give away the give-aways. When time permits -- and it ends up being a low priority -- I re-fondle my keepers and divide them again... - The more of anything, the less the value of everything. Not entirely true, but when you have a mind-numbing quantity of something, it doesn't seem as precious, does it? So, whittling down your collection can mean appreciating more what you have left. - I notice that while sometimes it's hard to part with a particular rock that someone else is lusted for, it's fun to share the joy, and I seldom regret or even remember the rock after it's gone. After all, I have so much more overflowing at home. It's nice to be generous and share treasures. - Finally, ultimately, I don't have a "finished" solution for my ultimate keepers. I have some display shelves not really finished, mostly serving for storage, and I have more flats of nice rocks than I ever though I would have. I dislike boxing up the rocks even though then they are nice and neat on the shelves, because then they are buried, mostly forgotten, out of sight, and it begs the question of, what's the point? Also, I keep finding myself unhappy with any of my prior organizing efforts, and wanting to start over, but who has time? "We'll never cure your perfectionism if you keep insisting we start over." -- Frank and Ernest Cheers, Alan Silverstein From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sun Jan 11 09:42:28 2009 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sun Jan 11 09:32:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question Message-ID: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> Somewhere I missed this....what do you call our list? When I am speaking about or writing about the wonders of our rockhound e-mail site I am never sure what it should be called... news group? ....chat group?.......educational forum? ........is there is a better designation? What do members use? Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 09:44:26 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jan 11 09:44:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question In-Reply-To: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: It's a list BK On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:42, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > Somewhere I missed this....what do you call our list? > > When I am speaking about or writing about the wonders of our rockhound > e-mail site I am never sure what it should be called... news group? > ....chat group?.......educational forum? ........is there is a better > designation? > > What do members use? > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 11 10:51:39 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Jan 11 10:55:07 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Kreigh..... I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in the living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! (See anyone you know??) This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look at any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, the drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that life is made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is very difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others not dug from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many minutes of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a generous trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with one of HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in the back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much as I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want to leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same eyes as I do. And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet as they may be!! Regards.....Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} > Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is a > not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding > hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. > > Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make > room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this is > an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating > duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to > better quality are all viable alternatives. > > I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... > > The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go > into storage, and less are on display. > > The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. > > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. > > I am also running out of space. > > I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front > hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each > mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens > much too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each > other). > > Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have > shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, > and specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull > out a book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in > the garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. > > Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I > started late). > > How are you dealing with running out of space? > > Kreigh > > > > > > On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a >> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web site. >> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my >> personal collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new >> Miniatures and Thumbnails!! >> >> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >> >> >> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >> >> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is >> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >> forms.......... >> >> www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Jan 11 11:12:54 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Jan 11 11:13:01 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: <496A44B6.7030609@verizon.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space > problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his > home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the > bathroom! Following something another member said: are these collections, or accumulations? I would rather see someone's collection of 100 nice specimens, well labeled, catalogued and well presented, than buckets containing tons of uncataloged, undisplayed, unlabeled rocks. (Of course, lapidary rough is a different story...) Food for thought, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 11 11:44:16 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 11 11:43:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question In-Reply-To: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <3B50674D-E018-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Look at the Reply-To address... On Sunday, Jan 11, 2009, at 12:42 America/Detroit, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > Somewhere I missed this....what do you call our list? > > When I am speaking about or writing about the wonders of our rockhound > e-mail site I am never sure what it should be called... news group? > ....chat group?.......educational forum? ........is there is a better > designation? > > What do members use? > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Jan 11 11:43:47 2009 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Jan 11 11:44:00 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: <496A4BF3.2020202@ptd.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > Kreigh..... > > I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a > space problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by > visiting his home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, > including the bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on > vanities, in cases in the living room, on shelves in the guest room, > in boxes under our beds, (some rolling around in our car or truck!), > ad infinitum!! > > (See anyone you know??) > > This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look > at any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can > remember digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the > weather, the drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the > stuff that life is made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at > any cost! It is very difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting > cash, always! Others not dug from the unyielding rock came at a > financial sacrifice, after many minutes of soul-searching at a show. > Yet others arrived in the mail from a generous trader, who maybe I > have never met, but who has elected to part with one of HIS favorite > memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in the back of > my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much as I > would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want > to leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the > same eyes as I do. > > And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not > appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet > as they may be!! > > > Regards.....Larry > > > A small comment and perhaps completely out of place, but I have always found Larry to be spot on!!! And this time, he has pinned the cork dead center!! The enjoyment of this hobby should not, and perhaps, can not, be measured in terms of financial gains or losses. Dennis Buffenmyer From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:48:29 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jan 11 11:48:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] More frozen meteorites Message-ID: This is an update by the Antarctic team who are collecting meteorites. They are finally at work and are up to 247 meteorites collected including one possible achondrite. < http://www.planetary.org/explore/topics/planetary_analogs/ansmet_20090108.html > BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Jan 11 12:00:22 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 11 12:00:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <496A44B6.7030609@verizon.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> <496A44B6.7030609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <496A4FD6.4090306@hawaiiantel.net> I agree. Bill and I gave ourselves a Christmas present of two new display cabinets and promptly filled them with specimens that had been in trays in the bedroom. Our living room now has seven display cabinets, one of which is devoted to fluorescent minerals, divided into LW, SW, and midrange, with the ability to move certain pieces from one wavelength to another to see the different colors produced. This gives the impression when a visitor comes in the front door of entering a museum! But when the cabinets are lighted---most of them have mirror backs---the room seems to glow. And seeing the look of wonder and the smile of delight on a visitor's face is very worthwhile. We also have a cabinet in the study---which is air-conditioned---for those rocks that need the dry atmosphere. We still have some trays of rocks in the bedroom and may put a cabinet in there too! But the big value for us is that we seldom walk past a cabinet without pausing to admire some treasure, and then continue with a smile and a sense of delight. And there is serious medical research that strongly suggests that smiling, laughing, and feeling emotional uplift can prevent or ameliorate illness and make a person live longer. I also periodically select a specimen (or a group of three or five) for special place of honor in the house, often with a flower arrangement or a small plant or bonsai. OK, I'm beginning to sound as if I'm the Martha Stewart of rocks, which I am not. I still feel a bit guilty about the trays of stuff in various parts of the house waiting to be cataloged and displayed properly. But I'm working on that; part of my New Year's resolutions...every year! We are not quite finished with our cataloging, and there are still a few mystery rocks we haven't identified yet, but we have devised a plan whereby whoever inherits our collection will be able to easily find the information for any specimen, including when and where it was found or purchased, and what it cost or an estimated value at that time. Aloha, Kitty DonH wrote: > Following something another member said: are these collections, or > accumulations? I would rather see someone's collection of 100 nice > specimens, well labeled, catalogued and well presented, than buckets > containing tons of uncataloged, undisplayed, unlabeled rocks. (Of > course, lapidary rough is a different story...) > > Food for thought, > Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 11 12:10:21 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 11 12:10:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <2B070ACFFEA44A73B52616E197903221@Goldstein> Whoa, this is an important topic! Collecting like any activity can be addictive, even to the point of the absurd. I would like to briefly bring another component to this discussion - why go out and collect? That can offer some reasoning behind the massive stock piles that many of us on this list have. So here I go... I collect for two reasons: scientific curiosity (since I was about 5, before I knew what science was) and as a stress reliever (the same rationale behind fishing, hunting, bowling, etc.). The problem with collecting (as addressed by this discussion) is now that you brought the rocks, minerals, and/or fossils home. WHAT TO DO? Display is a frequent result, but only a multi-millionaire has the resources to display EVERYTHING. Many people 'grade-up.' Start with a $5 or small self-collected specimen and then get a larger, better, more valuable specimen. It works if you replace specimens as you upgrade, but it is very easy to box up that low quality specimen and not see it again for years (if ever). I have several display cases and several cabinets that can serve both storage and display (with pull-out drawers). The vast part of my collection is in beer flats or (for larger pieces) plastic storage tubs. Do you keep everything you collect? Gosh, I hope not! When I get back from collecting, I try to organize everything as quickly as possible. (That can be challenging in the winter time.) There are four categories for specimens: 1) add to my collection or of potential further study [the fewest] 2) trade or sell stock [the most; a small percentage is targeted for that purpose in advance] 3) give away [typically targeted before I go collecting] 4) yard rock [for my rock garden, garden paths, dry-stacked walls, garden bed borders] Generally when I collect yard rock it is for a specific part of the landscape, so I don't end up with large piles of rock to work around. Compared to most of my collecting friends, I am a bit of an anomaly. My wife asks that our two car garage can actually hold two vehicles when weather conditions allow for frost on the windshield. So this time of the year, the perimeter of the garage is stacked with boxes pretty darn high. However, as any visitor in the summer can attest, it can be a challenge getting the lawn mower out! It usually takes me a full day or two to get the garage ready for the cold season. That is a price I am willing to pay in order to placate my spouse. How do I get rid of stuff? Trades don't usually replace; it just switches the material around. Sell. I have gotten rid of a lot of material, but most of that is targeted collecting. Favosites, bryozoans, etc. Shows - minimal effect in any one year. I do the Clement Museum, Kyana, and Cincinnati Shows. I get rid of material - often a lot of it is priced to move! However, there is a cumulative effect - over 20 years I've probably moved 10,000 minerals and 10,000 fossils at just one to three shows per year. The Cincinnati Show is unique in that I set up in the swap area and convert specimens to swap dollars. That allows me to obtain specimens out of my budget for my collection (and to sell at the other shows).That's a good thing because I don't WANT to have a Leonard Gerhart-type house. Those are personal warehouses! (I know people who live like that. Frankly, I feel a bit claustrophobic amongst the stacks of boxes.) So where is my personal collection? I keep my mineral collection in the basement where the temperature is fairly constant. The bulk of the fossil collection is kept in the back of the garage in cabinets in stacks of flats around the perimeter. I try to store them in numeric order to match my catalog, so if I need something for a display there is at least a modest change of my finding it. I may have to move 15 boxes, but I have a general sense of where it is. One of the byproducts of my occasional re-organization binges is digitally photographing every specimen to put on CD's. That is one reason why I have 1300+ mineral photos on mindat. Why not share the images? I've added many localities to mindat from specimens having locations not listed on the site. I've still got some work to do in that regards. Remember the White Elephant mine I asked about a month or two back? Donation. Do you need everything? What would happen to it if you suddenly died? I have donated 8 boxes (well over 125 pounds) of minerals and ore samples to the University of AZ Tucson Dept, of Mine Engineering in the past several years. Imagine a school of mining lacking specimens for students to study? Especially in a mineral-rich state like Arizona!!! Well, they are well-stocked now. Consider that as an option. How many private collections with nice specimens end up in a landfill. I'm sure the number would cause us all to gasp! Check with your local university geosciences staff. It's tax deductible. Plan for your family's needs. What will happen when they find themselves with 10 to 100 thousand specimens that they don't know what to do with? Carol O. is still dealing with the repercussions of Larry's sudden death last June. The number of unlabelled specimens is mind-boggling! At least label the outside of your storage boxes with locality information! That's enough for now. Off my high-horse! Ouch, I think I twisted my ankle... Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} > Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is a > not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding > hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. > > Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make > room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this is > an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating > duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to > better quality are all viable alternatives. > > I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... > > The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go > into storage, and less are on display. > > The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. > > ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. > > I am also running out of space. > > I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front > hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each > mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens > much too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each > other). > > Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have > shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, > and specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull > out a book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in > the garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. > > Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I > started late). > > How are you dealing with running out of space? > > Kreigh > > > > > > On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a >> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web site. >> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my >> personal collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new >> Miniatures and Thumbnails!! >> >> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >> >> >> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >> >> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is >> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >> forms.......... >> >> www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 12:37:38 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Jan 11 12:37:43 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: Larry, Great topic - and very timely as I am getting ready for the annual Boston Mineral Club auction next Saturday. Like almost everyone else I too have a space problem. The main problem is that I never seem to be able to find the time to sort, clean and trim the specimens I collect in the field. As most of us know you often really don't know what you have collected until you clean it up. The annual BMC auction is a big help because it gives me a hard deadline to shoot for. We usually have about 200 flats of minerals in our silent auction and another 200 specimens or groups of specimens that go into the voice auction. Obviously those don't all come from me but I am currently cleaning up both KY fluorite specimens, Indiana geodes and Ohio fossils from last October's trip to the Midwest. I get a good feeling from donating specimens to benefit the club and it helps me to free up some space. Of course the danger is that I have been known to bring home more than I take! If your club has an auction by all means contribute to it. If they don't have one see about starting one. We regularly raise $2000 to $3500 per year to help support our club's activities and it can help me at least partially clean up my basement and garage. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Kreigh..... > > I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space > problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his > home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the > bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in the > living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some > rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! > > (See anyone you know??) > > This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look at > any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember > digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, the > drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that life is > made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is very > difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others not dug > from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many minutes > of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a generous > trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with one of > HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in the > back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much as > I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want to > leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same eyes > as I do. > > And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not > appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet as > they may be!! > > > Regards.....Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM > Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > Sizespecimens} > > > > Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is a >> not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding >> hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. >> >> Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make >> room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this is >> an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating >> duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to better >> quality are all viable alternatives. >> >> I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... >> >> The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go >> into storage, and less are on display. >> >> The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. >> >> ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. >> >> I am also running out of space. >> >> I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front >> hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each >> mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens much >> too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each other). >> >> Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have >> shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, and >> specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull out a >> book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in the >> garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. >> >> Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I >> started late). >> >> How are you dealing with running out of space? >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: >> >> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a >>> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web site. >>> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my personal >>> collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new Miniatures and >>> Thumbnails!! >>> >>> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >>> >>> >>> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >>> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >>> >>> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is >>> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >>> forms.......... >>> >>> www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 12:45:36 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Jan 11 12:45:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question In-Reply-To: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97413$f8f646e0$a8e1ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Carolyn, I simply refer to it as the Rockhounds email list and describe it as an email list for those interested in collecting and better understanding the origins of rocks, mineral specimens and fossils. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > Somewhere I missed this....what do you call our list? > > When I am speaking about or writing about the wonders of our rockhound > e-mail site I am never sure what it should be called... news group? > ....chat group?.......educational forum? ........is there is a better > designation? > > What do members use? > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Jan 11 12:46:34 2009 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Jan 11 12:46:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question References: <3B50674D-E018-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: rockhounds mailing list News groups, chat groups, forums, are all different things. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question > Look at the Reply-To address... > > > On Sunday, Jan 11, 2009, at 12:42 America/Detroit, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > >> Somewhere I missed this....what do you call our list? From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Jan 11 14:51:01 2009 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sun Jan 11 14:51:11 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - CabinetSizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: <002701c9743f$143b44c0$0500a8c0@LaptopLand1> Uh oh! I, and my house, garage and truck, resemble that image... Only Don wouldn't want to see any of my rocks (LOL). Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA 22407 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:52 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - CabinetSizespecimens} Kreigh..... I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in the living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! (See anyone you know??) Regards.....Larry From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 14:58:12 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sun Jan 11 14:58:15 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901111458r6b512e82j11395b9742db5a2@mail.gmail.com> A word from the sunny side of the country, where the temp has reached a toasty 51 degrees! I appreciate all of the great ideas for trimming down the overflow of specimens, and I'll use most of them, short of buying another house. Build another wing, yes ... get more cabinets, yes ... urge my partner to urge her children to find a room mate and move out so we can take over their bedrooms for collection room? YES! *ducking a shoe ... hmmm, size 8 ... *grin!* But, how about this way, which is a clear winner for every soul involved. Give them to a school, college, or university. I haven't personally done this, having not yet reached "critical mass," but it's the way that small collectors have made big impacts. Think of Harvard, for instance, or the Smithsonian. Individuals have made a significant impact by donating their overflow to these renowned institutions for many years. But, your specimens aren't "museum pieces?" No problem. Contact your local schools and colleges. Speak with the earth sciences teacher. Go to your local museum, and speak to the curator. Reach out to your community and see who you can impact, who you can wake up. As a (very smalltime, barely beginning) dealer, I look forward to the opportunity to apply my axium of "offer your best to the customer first" to schools, too. Just as an aside, donations to these institutions are generally tax deductable, too. So, this is a win-win, all around. Teachers get teaching tools, museums get exhibits, college geology programs get specimens with location & provenance without the cost of collecting them ... and the collector gets not only the satisfaction of passing the avocation on to others, but a tax deduction, too! Stumped on how to start? Check with your local gem & mineral society. Many of these do educational outreach to the schools inn the form of "grab bags," or "kids day" at their annual show. They will usually be happy to help you contact educators. I look forward to doing this myself, since few things are as satisfying as seeing a child's eyes widen in delight, and watching another rockhound being born! In addition,, the parents may catch the dreaded "rock pox," too! At any rate, it's a win-win all around! Be well, y'all! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > Larry, > Great topic - and very timely as I am getting ready for the annual Boston > Mineral Club auction next Saturday. > Like almost everyone else I too have a space problem. The main problem is > that I never seem to be able to find the time to sort, clean and trim the > specimens I collect in the field. As most of us know you often really > don't > know what you have collected until you clean it up. > > The annual BMC auction is a big help because it gives me a hard deadline to > shoot for. We usually have about 200 flats of minerals in our silent > auction and another 200 specimens or groups of specimens that go into the > voice auction. Obviously those don't all come from me but I am currently > cleaning up both KY fluorite specimens, Indiana geodes and Ohio fossils > from > last October's trip to the Midwest. I get a good feeling from donating > specimens to benefit the club and it helps me to free up some space. Of > course the danger is that I have been known to bring home more than I take! > > If your club has an auction by all means contribute to it. If they don't > have one see about starting one. We regularly raise $2000 to $3500 per > year > to help support our club's activities and it can help me at least partially > clean up my basement and garage. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Rush > wrote: > > > Kreigh..... > > > > I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space > > problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his > > home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the > > bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in > the > > living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some > > rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! > > > > (See anyone you know??) > > > > This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look at > > any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember > > digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, the > > drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that life is > > made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is very > > difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others not > dug > > from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many > minutes > > of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a > generous > > trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with one > of > > HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in > the > > back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much > as > > I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want > to > > leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same > eyes > > as I do. > > > > And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not > > appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet as > > they may be!! > > > > > > Regards.....Larry > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < > > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > < > > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM > > Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > > Sizespecimens} > > > > > > > > Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is > a > >> not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding > >> hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. > >> > >> Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make > >> room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this > is > >> an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating > >> duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to > better > >> quality are all viable alternatives. > >> > >> I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... > >> > >> The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go > >> into storage, and less are on display. > >> > >> The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. > >> > >> ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. > >> > >> I am also running out of space. > >> > >> I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front > >> hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each > >> mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens > much > >> too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each > other). > >> > >> Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have > >> shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, > and > >> specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull out > a > >> book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in the > >> garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. > >> > >> Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I > >> started late). > >> > >> How are you dealing with running out of space? > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush > wrote: > >> > >> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a > >>> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web > site. > >>> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my > personal > >>> collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new Miniatures > and > >>> Thumbnails!! > >>> > >>> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html > >>> > >>> > >>> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) > >>> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) > >>> > >>> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is > >>> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of > >>> forms.......... > >>> > >>> www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm > > >>> > >>> Larry Rush > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> Subscription Services: > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Jan 11 16:19:28 2009 From: gene at fossilnut.com (Gene Hartstein - Fossilnut.com) Date: Sun Jan 11 16:19:36 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <496A4FD6.4090306@hawaiiantel.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush><496A44B6.7030609@verizon.net> <496A4FD6.4090306@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <76F3162D475F409C9E2E4A6679F770B6@GenePC> Let me weigh in here. Over the years I have been pretty aggressive about winnowing out lower grade specimens or items that are not part of a specific grouping that I am focusing on. I mostly collect fossils, but also have several drawers of fluorescents and of petrified wood. When I collect, I do the same as Alan Goldstein had mentioned, I separate the material and get rid of that which is not going into my good collection. My personal collection has steadily improved in quality via these efforts but has also continued to increase in size,. Let me explain how. With the excess I began by trading fossils, but soon grew tired of swapping as I was getting material I had little interest in, and often of low quality. I donated a lot of material and I continue to do so but it is tough to donate really good material, even if it is excess in my collection. Eventually I began to sell items, first at tailgate type shows, thinking this would surely alleviate the space problem. . Ha! Fat chance. Eventually I found I could sell quite a lot of material and began doing regular shows, buying, selling and prepping fossils. Before I knew it I'd become a dealer... with a full time regular job, and a fossil business on the side, consuming huge blocks of time and space.. This was not they way I thought it would turn out. .....Now I have many times the quantity of material I once had and not only that, I must keep the business materials/inventory physically separated from the personal stuff.. So I have been faced with how to store it. Away in boxes is not my style, because I have acquired the materials to enjoy and in some cases to study. I want my material accessible. Over they years I acquired a number of cabinets for storage and display. In the 1980's old print drawers were very popular in flea markets and the like, but the cabinets that contained them originally could be had for a song, sans drawers of course. I built drawers for these cabinets, sometimes removing one or two layers of drawer guides to provide for deeper drawers. I made drawers with oak fronts (to match the cabinets) and plywood insides, These cabinets provided for sturdy and attractive storage of material. The cabinets themselves were originally built for lead type and are quite sturdy. I also obtained a number of old print cabinets from engineering firms when they began to translate print files to electronic media. I never got any of the wood ones but these metal ones provide great storage in the basement, One time, coming home from work I noted someone had a sturdy steel shelving unit in their driveway with a sale sign on it. I stopped to inquire and was asked if I could use more. The owner was moving and had kept their glass lamp inventory on similar units in one of their garages. I could have them all for $100 and 4 hours labor to disassemble and remove them. The shelves provide great storage for flats containing business inventory. It is a constant battle against clutter and sometimes I lose for a period of time, but through it all I continue to strive to improve my collection. Gene Hartstein From steve at crocoite.com Mon Jan 12 01:49:35 2009 From: steve at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?steve?=) Date: Mon Jan 12 01:49:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space Message-ID: <20090112094935.727.qmail@webmachine101.com> Kreigh A sure-fire (and very current) solution for me. Move house! After 15 years in the one place, we move out next week. I have spent a lot more time than I had anticipated sorting through boxes put aside for that rainy day. I even have one box full of specimens that I brought to this house! It ain't going to happen again. Its not that I won't get to the same state I was in. We're never moving again! Regards Steve crocoite.com has been revamped! Check it out at http://www.crocoite.com/ Me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=576254808 From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 12 07:51:38 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 12 07:51:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <496A4FD6.4090306@hawaiiantel.net> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush><496A44B6.7030609@verizon.net> <496A4FD6.4090306@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <548F458162CB4896A682A7D25F2C74BA@AXELDESKTOP> > I agree. Bill and I gave ourselves a Christmas present of two new > display cabinets and promptly filled them with specimens that had been > in trays in the bedroom. [Axel] In the 80's I met an FMS member who was referred to as "Radioactiv Peter". The guy was from Sweden and an avid collector of primary uranium-minerals. He kept them in his bedroom, actually he slept on top of a pile of crates that were filled with pitchblende, thorianite, unraninite... you name it. The poor fellow didn't need a bedroom light since he glowed in the dark (that one we said when he wasn't listening). I wonder what became of him. Our living room now has seven display > cabinets, one of which is devoted to fluorescent minerals, divided into > LW, SW, and midrange, with the ability to move certain pieces from one > wavelength to another to see the different colors produced. [Axel] Ah, you guys warm my heart... ;-))) This gives > the impression when a visitor comes in the front door of entering a > museum! But when the cabinets are lighted---most of them have mirror > backs---the room seems to glow. And seeing the look of wonder and the > smile of delight on a visitor's face is very worthwhile. [Axel] If all goes well I'm going to build the "WALL of AWE" in my hobby room this year... Wall to wall and floor to ceiling, nothing but glowrocks. I like a smile but I like it better when people go "Urgh" and faint when I flip the switch to UV. > We are not quite finished with our cataloging, and there are still a few > mystery rocks we haven't identified yet, but we have devised a plan > whereby whoever inherits our collection will be able to easily find the > information for any specimen, including when and where it was found or > purchased, and what it cost or an estimated value at that time. [Axel] A bit gloomy but VERY good idea. The Grim Reaper makes no exceptions and a properly documented collection may be one way to live on in people's minds. Cheers [Axel] Axel From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jan 12 09:22:45 2009 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 12 09:23:00 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> Message-ID: <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$@dillen@skynet.be> Getting somewhat older has its advantages too (besides many more disadvantages) : for each grown-up child that left our home I got one more room to store minerals. Anyway, the main purpose of my mineral collection is for my entertainment. That means that my children are completely free to do whatever they want with my collection after my death. Whatever suits them most is OK for me : selling the collection as a whole (at a fraction of the price it is worth, probably), selling piece by piece, donate it to a museum, a club or one or more individual(s), keep it for themselves (which I doubt they would do) or whatever. As the function of the collection is my personal entertainment, the function of the collection as such will cease to exist at that moment. My children will have the freedom to do whatever they like (I am confident that they would not just scrap it), I am completely relaxed about the fate of my collection for the rest of my life, and just enjoy it rather than having concerns about its future. My two (euro-)cents... Grts, Rik DILLEN E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen MINERANT 2009 9-10/5/2009 Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium www.minerant.org -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Martin Sent: zondag 11 januari 2009 21:38 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} Larry, Great topic - and very timely as I am getting ready for the annual Boston Mineral Club auction next Saturday. Like almost everyone else I too have a space problem. The main problem is that I never seem to be able to find the time to sort, clean and trim the specimens I collect in the field. As most of us know you often really don't know what you have collected until you clean it up. The annual BMC auction is a big help because it gives me a hard deadline to shoot for. We usually have about 200 flats of minerals in our silent auction and another 200 specimens or groups of specimens that go into the voice auction. Obviously those don't all come from me but I am currently cleaning up both KY fluorite specimens, Indiana geodes and Ohio fossils from last October's trip to the Midwest. I get a good feeling from donating specimens to benefit the club and it helps me to free up some space. Of course the danger is that I have been known to bring home more than I take! If your club has an auction by all means contribute to it. If they don't have one see about starting one. We regularly raise $2000 to $3500 per year to help support our club's activities and it can help me at least partially clean up my basement and garage. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Kreigh..... > > I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space > problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his > home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the > bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in the > living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some > rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! > > (See anyone you know??) > > This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look at > any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember > digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, the > drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that life is > made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is very > difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others not dug > from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many minutes > of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a generous > trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with one of > HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in the > back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much as > I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want to > leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same eyes > as I do. > > And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not > appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet as > they may be!! > > > Regards.....Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM > Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > Sizespecimens} > > > > Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is a >> not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding >> hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. >> >> Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make >> room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this is >> an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating >> duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to better >> quality are all viable alternatives. >> >> I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... >> >> The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go >> into storage, and less are on display. >> >> The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. >> >> ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. >> >> I am also running out of space. >> >> I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front >> hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each >> mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens much >> too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each other). >> >> Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have >> shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, and >> specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull out a >> book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in the >> garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. >> >> Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I >> started late). >> >> How are you dealing with running out of space? >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush wrote: >> >> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a >>> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web site. >>> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my personal >>> collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new Miniatures and >>> Thumbnails!! >>> >>> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >>> >>> >>> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >>> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >>> >>> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is >>> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >>> forms.......... >>> >>> www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 12 11:17:53 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 12 11:18:10 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD -Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <9CC4A02990214D04826A857CB79FB29F@AXELDESKTOP> > As the function of the collection is my personal entertainment, the function > of the collection as such will cease to exist at that moment. > My children will have the freedom to do whatever they like (I am confident > that they would not just scrap it), I am completely relaxed about the fate > of my collection for the rest of my life, and just enjoy it rather than > having concerns about its future. [Axel] Amen, Rik. BTW: since the universe is expanding at an ever increasing pace, the ONLY thing we won't run out of any time soon is space. Cheers Axel From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jan 12 11:27:10 2009 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 12 11:27:19 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD -Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <9CC4A02990214D04826A857CB79FB29F@AXELDESKTOP> References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$@dillen@skynet.be> <9CC4A02990214D04826A857CB79FB29F@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <002f01c974eb$c4094c10$4c1be430$@dillen@skynet.be> But unfortunately also entropy (lack of order) is constantly increasing. When I had only 50 specimens I could keep them organized far better than at present... Grts, Rik DILLEN E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen MINERANT 2009 9-10/5/2009 Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium www.minerant.org -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 20:18 To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD -Cabinet Sizespecimens} > As the function of the collection is my personal entertainment, the function > of the collection as such will cease to exist at that moment. > My children will have the freedom to do whatever they like (I am confident > that they would not just scrap it), I am completely relaxed about the fate > of my collection for the rest of my life, and just enjoy it rather than > having concerns about its future. [Axel] Amen, Rik. BTW: since the universe is expanding at an ever increasing pace, the ONLY thing we won't run out of any time soon is space. Cheers Axel From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 14:22:44 2009 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 12 14:22:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <604711.75243.qm@web110810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> The first update of the new year will be posted to www.sauktown.com today. The new microminerals this month include baotite, cervelleite, destinezite, gramaccioliite-(Y), natrozippeite, rooseveltite & tinticite. The Dryer list has brannockite, creaseyite, kolbeckite & wurtzite-6H. There may not be an update in February, since I'll be away much of the month in Arizona & Florida. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 12 17:12:35 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jan 12 17:12:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush> <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$%dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: Rik, Have you asked your children? They might resent having to haul thousands of specimens out of your house, no matter what freedom you give them in the disposition of your collection. I suppose they could carry some of the collection to your grave (if you are buried), then you CAN take it with you! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: RE: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - CabinetSizespecimens} > Getting somewhat older has its advantages too (besides many more > disadvantages) : for each grown-up child that left our home I got one more > room to store minerals. > Anyway, the main purpose of my mineral collection is for my entertainment. > That means that my children are completely free to do whatever they want > with my collection after my death. Whatever suits them most is OK for me : > selling the collection as a whole (at a fraction of the price it is worth, > probably), selling piece by piece, donate it to a museum, a club or one or > more individual(s), keep it for themselves (which I doubt they would do) > or > whatever. > > As the function of the collection is my personal entertainment, the > function > of the collection as such will cease to exist at that moment. > My children will have the freedom to do whatever they like (I am confident > that they would not just scrap it), I am completely relaxed about the fate > of my collection for the rest of my life, and just enjoy it rather than > having concerns about its future. > > My two (euro-)cents... > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2009 > 9-10/5/2009 > Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium > www.minerant.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Martin > Sent: zondag 11 januari 2009 21:38 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > Sizespecimens} > > Larry, > Great topic - and very timely as I am getting ready for the annual Boston > Mineral Club auction next Saturday. > Like almost everyone else I too have a space problem. The main problem is > that I never seem to be able to find the time to sort, clean and trim the > specimens I collect in the field. As most of us know you often really > don't > know what you have collected until you clean it up. > > The annual BMC auction is a big help because it gives me a hard deadline > to > shoot for. We usually have about 200 flats of minerals in our silent > auction and another 200 specimens or groups of specimens that go into the > voice auction. Obviously those don't all come from me but I am currently > cleaning up both KY fluorite specimens, Indiana geodes and Ohio fossils > from > last October's trip to the Midwest. I get a good feeling from donating > specimens to benefit the club and it helps me to free up some space. Of > course the danger is that I have been known to bring home more than I > take! > > If your club has an auction by all means contribute to it. If they don't > have one see about starting one. We regularly raise $2000 to $3500 per > year > to help support our club's activities and it can help me at least > partially > clean up my basement and garage. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Rush > wrote: > >> Kreigh..... >> >> I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a space >> problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting his >> home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the >> bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases in > the >> living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, (some >> rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! >> >> (See anyone you know??) >> >> This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look at >> any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember >> digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, the >> drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that life is >> made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is very >> difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others not >> dug >> from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many >> minutes >> of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a > generous >> trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with one > of >> HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away in >> the >> back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as much > as >> I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't want > to >> leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same >> eyes >> as I do. >> >> And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not >> appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet as >> they may be!! >> >> >> Regards.....Larry >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < >> Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM >> Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet >> Sizespecimens} >> >> >> >> Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection is >> a >>> not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the Rockhounding >>> hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the issue. >>> >>> Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to make >>> room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, this > is >>> an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating >>> duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to > better >>> quality are all viable alternatives. >>> >>> I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... >>> >>> The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go >>> into storage, and less are on display. >>> >>> The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. >>> >>> ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. >>> >>> I am also running out of space. >>> >>> I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front >>> hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each >>> mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with specimens > much >>> too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each > other). >>> >>> Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have >>> shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry room, > and >>> specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull out > a >>> book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in the >>> garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to schools. >>> >>> Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on it; I >>> started late). >>> >>> How are you dealing with running out of space? >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush >>> wrote: >>> >>> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I have a >>>> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web > site. >>>> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my > personal >>>> collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new Miniatures > and >>>> Thumbnails!! >>>> >>>> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >>>> >>>> >>>> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >>>> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >>>> >>>> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it is >>>> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >>>> forms.......... >>>> >>>> > www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm ltech.edu/%7Eatomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm> >>>> >>>> Larry Rush >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 12 18:14:10 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 12 18:13:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <20090112094935.727.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: Hey Steve, I moved a couple times, thirty some years ago, and it cured me. Kreigh On Monday, Jan 12, 2009, at 04:49 America/Detroit, steve wrote: > Kreigh > > A sure-fire (and very current) solution for me. Move house! > > After 15 years in the one place, we move out next week. I have spent a > lot more time than I had anticipated sorting through boxes put aside > for that rainy day. I even have one box full of specimens that I > brought to this house! > > It ain't going to happen again. Its not that I won't get to the same > state I was in. We're never moving again! > > Regards > Steve > > crocoite.com has been revamped! Check it out at > http://www.crocoite.com/ > > Me on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=576254808 > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From markstanley at bellnet.ca Mon Jan 12 19:37:20 2009 From: markstanley at bellnet.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Mon Jan 12 19:40:06 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space References: Message-ID: <00bd01c97530$3e2baee0$9341d0d8@b1quvu32> It is extremely important to have a very understanding spouse or partner when you reach the "running out of space" level. Mark Stanley Norwood, Ontario, Canada From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 12 19:47:30 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 12 19:46:37 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Sizespecimens} In-Reply-To: <001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: Hi Rik, My collection is also for my enjoyment. Each new mineral, locality, or specimen teaches me something new. As a systematic collector I have many diverse opportunities to learn about the world around me. I've put a lot of enjoyable effort (and sometimes painful expense) into my collection. Specimens are labeled, there is a somewhat complete catalog, and many specimens have been photographed. Hobby hours are priceless. If it is not grown, it must be mined. Learning about the treasures that come out of the Earth helps keep me (mostly) sane, and expands my horizons. Sharing my joy in learning only makes it more fun; I think/hope/wish I have passed on the joy of learning to my children. I have some hopes that the efforts I have made in conserving and sharing my collection will live beyond me and bring joy to future generations (and maybe a little cash to my kids). The thought makes me happy. Kreigh On Monday, Jan 12, 2009, at 12:22 America/Detroit, Rik Dillen wrote: > Getting somewhat older has its advantages too (besides many more > disadvantages) : for each grown-up child that left our home I got one > more > room to store minerals. > Anyway, the main purpose of my mineral collection is for my > entertainment. > That means that my children are completely free to do whatever they > want > with my collection after my death. Whatever suits them most is OK for > me : > selling the collection as a whole (at a fraction of the price it is > worth, > probably), selling piece by piece, donate it to a museum, a club or > one or > more individual(s), keep it for themselves (which I doubt they would > do) or > whatever. > > As the function of the collection is my personal entertainment, the > function > of the collection as such will cease to exist at that moment. > My children will have the freedom to do whatever they like (I am > confident > that they would not just scrap it), I am completely relaxed about the > fate > of my collection for the rest of my life, and just enjoy it rather than > having concerns about its future. > > My two (euro-)cents... > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2009 > 9-10/5/2009 > Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium > www.minerant.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan > Martin > Sent: zondag 11 januari 2009 21:38 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > Sizespecimens} > > Larry, > Great topic - and very timely as I am getting ready for the annual > Boston > Mineral Club auction next Saturday. > Like almost everyone else I too have a space problem. The main > problem is > that I never seem to be able to find the time to sort, clean and trim > the > specimens I collect in the field. As most of us know you often really > don't > know what you have collected until you clean it up. > > The annual BMC auction is a big help because it gives me a hard > deadline to > shoot for. We usually have about 200 flats of minerals in our silent > auction and another 200 specimens or groups of specimens that go into > the > voice auction. Obviously those don't all come from me but I am > currently > cleaning up both KY fluorite specimens, Indiana geodes and Ohio > fossils from > last October's trip to the Midwest. I get a good feeling from donating > specimens to benefit the club and it helps me to free up some space. > Of > course the danger is that I have been known to bring home more than I > take! > > If your club has an auction by all means contribute to it. If they > don't > have one see about starting one. We regularly raise $2000 to $3500 > per year > to help support our club's activities and it can help me at least > partially > clean up my basement and garage. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Lawrence Rush > wrote: > >> Kreigh..... >> >> I have never met a serious collector who did not eventually have a >> space >> problem! I have learned to recognize the true collector by visiting >> his >> home. They will inevitably have minerals in every room, including the >> bathroom! All of us have specimens on mantles, on vanities, in cases >> in > the >> living room, on shelves in the guest room, in boxes under our beds, >> (some >> rolling around in our car or truck!), ad infinitum!! >> >> (See anyone you know??) >> >> This idea of selling off my larger pieces did not come easily! I look >> at >> any piece in my collection (maybe 2000 specimens now) and can remember >> digging it out, who I was with, sometimes even remember the weather, >> the >> drive there, bits and pieces of memories...that is the stuff that >> life is >> made of! You cannot sell your life experiences, at any cost! It is >> very >> difficult to exchange a memory for corrupting cash, always! Others >> not dug >> from the unyielding rock came at a financial sacrifice, after many >> minutes >> of soul-searching at a show. Yet others arrived in the mail from a > generous >> trader, who maybe I have never met, but who has elected to part with >> one > of >> HIS favorite memories to exchange for mine. But, reality gnaws away >> in the >> back of my mind, reminding me that I am not getting any younger, as >> much > as >> I would wish it were otherwise, and I know I MUST downsize. I don't >> want > to >> leave this "mess" to my survivors, who don't look at it with the same >> eyes >> as I do. >> >> And there you are........my solution. Maybe not the best, maybe not >> appropriate for you, but one which will need my needs, as bittersweet >> as >> they may be!! >> >> >> Regards.....Larry >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" < >> Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" < >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:39 PM >> Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet >> Sizespecimens} >> >> >> >> Running out of space to display (or at least store) one's collection >> is a >>> not uncommon problem among those of us afflicted with the >>> Rockhounding >>> hobby. I would like to start a discussion of how to deal with the >>> issue. >>> >>> Larry has presented the first alternative, deciding what must go to >>> make >>> room for better/smaller specimens. As the curator of a collection, >>> this > is >>> an ongoing process, and most of us do it to some extent. Eliminating >>> duplicates, reducing the size of specimens, or upgrading specimens to > better >>> quality are all viable alternatives. >>> >>> I would suggest that there are only two more alternatives... >>> >>> The first is increasing the density of the collection. More items go >>> into storage, and less are on display. >>> >>> The second is finding more space to display or store the collection. >>> >>> ...but I would love to learn of another alternative. >>> >>> I am also running out of space. >>> >>> I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the >>> front >>> hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each >>> mineral I have collected. It is essentially full, packed with >>> specimens > much >>> too close together (and some in plastic boxes stacked on top of each > other). >>> >>> Most of the rest of my collection has taken over the basement. I have >>> shelfs behind the open doors hanging on the walls, in the laundry >>> room, > and >>> specimens packed on the bookshelves (you have to move a rock to pull >>> out > a >>> book). I have a couple three foot tall stacks of flats (and more in >>> the >>> garage), and a traveling collection in plastic tubs I take to >>> schools. >>> >>> Maybe a third of my collection has been cataloged (I'm working on >>> it; I >>> started late). >>> >>> How are you dealing with running out of space? >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, Jan 10, 2009, at 15:27 America/Detroit, Lawrence Rush >>> wrote: >>> >>> Well, we are snowed in here in the NE US (or about to be!), so I >>> have a >>>> free inside day to sort out a few large specimens to post on my web > site. >>>> The real reason I am offering these is that I am out of space in my > personal >>>> collection room, and with these gone, I can add a lot of new >>>> Miniatures > and >>>> Thumbnails!! >>>> >>>> http://www.connroxminerals.com/Cabinet.html >>>> >>>> >>>> (anybody want a few tons of those natural ice crystals called SNOW?) >>>> Beautiful to look at, but admittedly hard to preserve) >>>> >>>> BTW, these are among the most beautiful of all crystals to see, it >>>> is >>>> amazing how just 2 elements can form such a fantastic variety of >>>> forms.......... >>>> >>>> > www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm www.its.ca > ltech.edu/%7Eatomic/snowcrystals/photos/photos.htm> >>>> >>>> Larry Rush >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 13 07:12:30 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 13 07:12:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: References: <65266D5A-DF91-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><072F8A6292AF47879F87926B0F508DFC@LarryRush><001b01c974da$6208b480$261a1d80$%dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <7D5B80A5726E41DA871C91EF50BFDB16@AXELDESKTOP> > Have you asked your children? They might resent having to haul thousands of > specimens out of your house, no matter what freedom you give them in the > disposition of your collection. I suppose they could carry some of the > collection to your grave (if you are buried), then you CAN take it with you! [Axel] Hm, indeed Rik! Decomposing organic life forms are known to cause fluorescence in rocks. Luminescence in the afterlife... Who would have believed it? Cheers Axel From Mr.Calcite at verizon.net Tue Jan 13 17:28:45 2009 From: Mr.Calcite at verizon.net (Johan Mineral Verizon) Date: Tue Jan 13 17:36:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <200901130201.n0D21ORc005570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Axel, what a memory. While in Denmark, I visited Peter's apartment with Kitty. It was a miracle we could get in his one bedroom apartment at all. Every square centimeter was filled with magazines, boxes, stuff. I have seen quite a few packrats, but never anything like this. My feet were to long to navigate the very narrow corridor he had built between his boxes. Of course there were a large quantity of radioactive minerals But Peter was very passionate about his hobby and he never saw his place as a storage mess. Aren't we all like that? Moving ... done this twice and I still have not unpacked boxes from twelve years ago. Every time I open one during our mineral pick-nick the oh and ahs from the attendees enlighten me. Remember guys: Beez, Mont-sur-Marchienne, Plombieres, Seilles, Cahay? Johan Maertens Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org From kadok at infowest.com Tue Jan 13 17:46:57 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Jan 13 17:46:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space In-Reply-To: References: <20090112094935.727.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <3C0F21B3F7AE4BDF8E65BA8F1F1B0789@kadok> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space Hey -- I tried that too, Kreigh; only in this case I moved from So. Calif., where I had no rocks, to Utah, where all my rocks were already sitting on my lot waiting when I started building! <;-}} (Big help, huh!) Margaret >Hey Steve, >I moved a couple times, thirty some years ago, and it cured me. >Kreigh From pttrefrn at triwest.net Tue Jan 13 19:12:25 2009 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron) Date: Tue Jan 13 19:12:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space References: Message-ID: <0EEEFE822DDE43958538F1F903BB981C@EMACHINEDESKTOP> running out of space-- what's really embarrassing is when the team of friends come to move you keeps saying, "hey what you got in here? rocks or something?" and the answer is yeah, ( of course)...Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Mineral Verizon" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space > Axel, what a memory. > > While in Denmark, I visited Peter's apartment with Kitty. > It was a miracle we could get in his one bedroom apartment at all. > Every square centimeter was filled with magazines, boxes, stuff. > I have seen quite a few packrats, but never anything like this. > My feet were to long to navigate the very narrow corridor he had > built between his boxes. > Of course there were a large quantity of radioactive minerals > > But Peter was very passionate about his hobby and he never saw his > place as a storage mess. > Aren't we all like that? > > > Moving ... done this twice and I still have not unpacked boxes from > twelve years ago. > Every time I open one during our mineral pick-nick the oh and ahs > from the attendees enlighten me. > > Remember guys: Beez, Mont-sur-Marchienne, Plombieres, Seilles, Cahay? > > Johan Maertens > Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 13 19:54:45 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 13 19:54:49 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} Message-ID: I've just been reading some of these many posts on this topic(s), that I might have missed the first time around. So Kreigh, when you wrote, In a message dated 1/10/2009 8:39:05 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: ...I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the front hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of each mineral I have collected. ... Ah, so by "China Cabinet", you obviously mean the cabinet with the specimens you've purchased from there, of fluorite, cinnabar, azurite, spessartine, pyromorphite, stibnite, and so on, all from that one country, right? What's that--you say this could have meant something else? I can't imagine what. Pete **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 13 20:24:57 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 13 20:23:48 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4CF913CD-E1F3-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, The 'China Cabinet' contains our best tableware (much of it was wedding gifts). I can only wish for the display space for mineral specimens. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009, at 22:54 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > I've just been reading some of these many posts on this topic(s), that > I > might have missed the first time around. So Kreigh, when you wrote, > > In a message dated 1/10/2009 8:39:05 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > > ...I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the > front hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of > each mineral I have collected. ... > > Ah, so by "China Cabinet", you obviously mean the cabinet with the > specimens > you've purchased from there, of fluorite, cinnabar, azurite, > spessartine, > pyromorphite, stibnite, and so on, all from that one country, right? > > What's that--you say this could have meant something else? I can't > imagine > what. > > Pete > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 13 20:26:44 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 13 20:26:54 2009 Subject: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet Size specimens} Message-ID: Grins to that, Kreigh. You could try starting to sneak a few specimens (such as I described) into that cabinet, and squeeze some of the China closer together... you know, just say, "Well, this is "China" too, you know". In a message dated 1/13/2009 9:24:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Pete, The 'China Cabinet' contains our best tableware (much of it was wedding gifts). I can only wish for the display space for mineral specimens. Kreigh On Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009, at 22:54 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > I've just been reading some of these many posts on this topic(s), that > I > might have missed the first time around. So Kreigh, when you wrote, > > In a message dated 1/10/2009 8:39:05 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > > ...I am a systematic mineral collector. I have a large cabinet in the > front hall, opposite our China Cabinet, displaying my best specimen of > each mineral I have collected. ... > > Ah, so by "China Cabinet", you obviously mean the cabinet with the > specimens > you've purchased from there, of fluorite, cinnabar, azurite, > spessartine, > pyromorphite, stibnite, and so on, all from that one country, right? > > What's that--you say this could have meant something else? I can't > imagine > what. > > Pete > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Jan 14 06:33:04 2009 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Jan 14 06:23:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? Message-ID: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> To the list: How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile high? I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Jan 14 06:44:52 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Jan 14 06:44:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] =?UTF-8?Q?Question=3F?= In-Reply-To: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? Cheers- Earl On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" wrote: > To the list: > > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile > high? > > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Jan 14 06:51:19 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Jan 14 06:51:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Dear List, Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral localities and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to pinpoint localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, their UTM coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the hand tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is continuously recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these coordinates pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the arrow is where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid hand thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of converting the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? Thanks to anyone who can help! Cheers- Earl Verbeek From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 06:55:06 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 14 06:55:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> Message-ID: The ice at the bottom may have a higher density since it will have over 300,000 lb/ft sq of pressure on it. Water is generally considered to be incompressible but I'm not sure if ice is. BK On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 09:44, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > wrote: > > To the list: > > > > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile > > high? > > > > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > > > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 06:59:48 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 14 06:59:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> Message-ID: Here is some discussion of the process, lots of math involved but it looks to be mainly algebraic: BK On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 09:55, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > The ice at the bottom may have a higher density since it will have over > 300,000 lb/ft sq of pressure on it. Water is generally considered to be > incompressible but I'm not sure if ice is. > > BK > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 09:44, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > >> A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to >> get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the >> weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the >> density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on >> temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" >> >> wrote: >> > To the list: >> > >> > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one >> mile >> > high? >> > >> > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >> > >> > Carolyn Reynard >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 14 07:19:29 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 14 07:19:36 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Hi Carolyn, The general formula of gravity in relation to height is: g(orbit) = g(surface) * (radius earth/(radius earth + height))? In this case G(at 1 mile) = g(surface) * (7926.28 miles/ (7926.28 miles + 1 mile))? G(at 1 mile) = g(surface) * 0,99987890286002178793842460436531 So a cubic foot of glacial ice would weigh 0,99987890286002178793842460436531 times as much when weighed 1 mile above the earth's surface as it would at ground level. Still, I think that you wanted to know how much a column of 1 SQUARE foot and 1 mile high would weigh... That would be in Earl's answer. You can't say that I didn't answer the exact question, can you? LOL. Cheers (and cheer up, I'm like that all the time and it drives my wife and kids crazy) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: woensdag 14 januari 2009 15:33 > Aan: Rockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Question? > > To the list: > > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile high? > > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 14 07:24:23 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 14 07:27:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Message-ID: <811247028EA746CFB182D4F037ABD6D3@LarryRush> Earl: Try this URL....don't know for sure if it will work..... http://groups.google.com/group/earth-plus/browse_thread/thread/b5db88ebc5c71281 Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question > Dear List, > > Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral localities > and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to > pinpoint > localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, their > UTM > coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the hand > tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is continuously > recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these coordinates > pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the arrow is > where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid hand > thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of converting > the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? > > Thanks to anyone who can help! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sginkusa at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 07:32:25 2009 From: sginkusa at gmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Wed Jan 14 07:32:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Carolyn: Water is unusual in that the solid form, ice, is less dense than the liquid. The weight of a cubic foot of water is defined as 62.416 pounds at 32oF (freezing point). Ice is 92% the density of water at that temperature, or 57.41lbs. 5,280 ft = 1 mile, therefore a column of ice 1 mile high x 1 cubic ft.= 5,280 x 57.41 = 303,124.80 lbs or about 151.6 tons. Cautionary: Glacier ice may or may not be exactly as the defined standard and vary slightly from glacier to glacier due to elevation and temperature. Your column of ice would weigh about the same as 83.41 Hummers stacked on top of each other. Or about 1213 newborn baby elephants.... Don Tuttle On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > To the list: > > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile > high? > > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lpai at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 07:45:54 2009 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Wed Jan 14 07:46:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Message-ID: I've been using Google Earth for the same purpose and I usually use the 'placemark' to pinpoint a specific mine location. It's like sticking a pin on a map... The tip of the pin should be the exact long/lat... As for the hand, I would assume the middle of the hand is where the referenced long/lat showing at the bottom of the map. Just think of the hand as a circle and the centre of the circle is the long/lat location... Hope that make sense. I've been working with several sources to put together a list of mine locations in China. If there are other people that have done the same for other regions (like north america, south america, africa, etc), I'd be happy to exchange the .kmz files. In future, I hope to visit as many of the mines as I can and take pictures of the mines and their surroundings... Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question > Dear List, > > Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral localities > and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to pinpoint > localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, their UTM > coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the hand > tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is continuously > recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these coordinates > pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the arrow is > where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid hand > thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of converting > the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? > > Thanks to anyone who can help! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 14 08:11:04 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 14 08:14:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Message-ID: <894DDC543FC44FFEB34279CE5FC80CC4@LarryRush> Earl: Maybe you can "calibrate" the Google hand by taking a coordinate measurement of a local site with your GPS, then moving the "hand" pointer or the "placement" marker around until you match those coordinates. Then you would know which part of the hand is used. A bit crude, but should tell you a little more precisely how Google is using the hand cursor. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question > Dear List, > > Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral localities > and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to > pinpoint > localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, their > UTM > coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the hand > tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is continuously > recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these coordinates > pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the arrow is > where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid hand > thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of converting > the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? > > Thanks to anyone who can help! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at copper.net Wed Jan 14 08:42:37 2009 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jan 14 08:57:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" wrote: >To the list: > >How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile high? About 62 pounds, but a cubic foot one mile high is going to be mighty thin. Did you meant a square foot in cross-section, one mile high? > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Wed Jan 14 11:37:05 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Wed Jan 14 11:37:09 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Message-ID: Hi Earl, Your question got my curiosity going, so I've spent some time this morning playing with GE, National Geographic Topo and a GPS. It appears that the center of the hand and the pinpoint of the placemark give the same readings (which does raise the question of why is the placemark pin is surrounded by a box with "crosshairs" marking the center?). At first, Google Earth gave me all sorts of odd answers to the problem and it looked like the center of the hand was the same as the corner formed by the left side of the pin's handle and the needle. Then I also noticed that sometimes after moving the pin to the tree I was using as my measuring spot then clicking on the OK button for the placemark, it was saved at the spot, but coordinates in the info were the center of the screen coordinates where the placemark originally appears. When I saw that, I quit GE then restarted it and it worked properly, saving the coordinates of the placemark at the spot where I had moved it. I'm taking this behavior as a fair warning each time I use GE to make sure it is properly saving/recording placemarks. Doing all this, I got curious about the accuracy of GE and comparison to the real world. First I searched the web and came up with only a few messages in forums about the accuracy of GE coordinates, the GE Community forum is down so couldn't search it, but some of the archives were available. As one might expect, the accuracy of the coordinates varies with the quality of the photos and their data and the distortion of the photos. It apparently runs from about the width of a finger on the hand up to a hand width, and rarely greater error. Most of the time it's probably within ones ability to reproduce the same reading at the same spot, dependent more on the resolution of the photos. I also became curious about how this all worked in the real world, so took a hike in the icy fog around my neighborhood to check an intersection that is on the topo maps and also my driveway. With the GPS set on NAD23/WGS84 and using decimal minutes, GE was exactly the same in latitude and off by 0.008 in longitude as compared to the GPS reading. The NG Topo readings were not as accurate because of the smaller scale. A 7 1/2 minute topo on the computer screen at the highest setting, is still fairly small scale as compared to the better resolution satellite photos of GE. The latitude reading was 0.007 less than the GPS reading and the longitude reading was 0.033 less; a big difference that required the cursor to be moved three street widths to get the same longitude reading as the GPS. The differences in latitude are well within my ability to place the cursors in the two programs, but the longitude variations are different by much more than that. Of course one doesn't really know if the GPS reading is all that correct at any given time either; the unit showed an accuracy of +-33 to 40 feet as I stood there, for what it's worth. If anyone else has done any checking on any of this, I would be interested in what you've learned. Regards, Lanny On Jan 14, 2009, at 6:51 AM, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Dear List, > > Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral > localities > and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to > pinpoint > localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, > their UTM > coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the > hand > tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is > continuously > recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these > coordinates > pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the > arrow is > where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid > hand > thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of > converting > the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? > > Thanks to anyone who can help! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Jan 14 13:02:47 2009 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Jan 14 12:53:05 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> Message-ID: <003201c9768b$745e7950$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> Earl and all, Thank you for the help. The answer need be only an approximation. We have a speaker in February talking to us about the Sand & Gravel Industry in the Hudson Valley. She asked me to give a general overview of the geology which of course must include information about glaciation. I expect a question about the weight of the ice. This will help give our members a sense of just how much the area was subjected to tremendous weight and therefore why the ice could scour and crush to the extent it did. The Hudson Valley is a source of sand and gravel, however most companies in the area are finding it very hard to aquire the land even though they will restore it when the mining is finished. Nobody wants it in their backyard. Thanks again, Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > wrote: > > To the list: > > > > How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile > > high? > > > > I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > > > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Wed Jan 14 13:47:13 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jan 14 13:47:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> Lanny et al, > With the GPS set on NAD23/WGS84 and using decimal minutes... Good, you understand datums, most people don't. Several articles past in Rock & Gem talked about mysterious systematic errors (hundreds of feet) using a GPS, with no awareness of this issue. At a Denver show, I got a chance to explain this to one of the magazine's editors. I guess most users don't read the User's Guide! Anyway, did you mean WGS83/WGS84? Never heard of NAD23, maybe you mean NAD27 (+ CONUS = continental US in my Garmin), which is NOT the same as WGS83/WGS84. I believe Google uses WGS84, and you can find this fact buried somewhere if you search for it on the web. I've had good experiences logging waypoints in the field, setting the GPS to the right datum and format for output, entering the exact numbers (no extra fanfare) in the Google Maps search box, and (poof) I'm centered right on that spot, or acceptably close to it. Quite interesting, for example, figuring out after a long hike in the desert, where exactly (in the satellite view that is) you ended up. For example, enter "37.70608 -110.55080" to see where we turned around about three miles up Ticaboo Canyon (off Good Hope Bay, Lake Powell) last September. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Jan 14 14:04:38 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Jan 14 14:04:44 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> References: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: This recent thread, especially the part that relates to GPS, prompts me to plumb the experience of GPS users. I think it is about time I got one, and I'd like to ask opinions about getting a good but inexpensive one. My main interest is to have something to log where I'm going when I'm wandering in the woods (often looking for mushrooms, but it might be minerals...) so that I can find my back to my car. This is obviously a bit different than leading me to a specific locality using its lat-long coordinates, though I would probably do some of that too. I presume that most units have some sort of built-in compass as well, that can tell me what direction I'm facing without having to have me walk a ways first. Go to it! Thanks, Pete Richards ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Wed Jan 14 15:03:32 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jan 14 15:03:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090114230332.87A7A1CC44@io.frii.com> Pete et al, > I think it is about time I got one, and I'd like to ask opinions about > getting a good but inexpensive one. My main interest is to have > something to log where I'm going when I'm wandering in the woods... You have many choices, I like Garmin models, shrug. Excellent user interfaces (speaking as someone with actual Human Factors training), reliable, rugged, and good customer service. Let me give generic advice. I got my GPS unit over ten years ago (!) as a gift, and I'm still using it very well. I didn't think I had a lot of uses for it, but now I hardly leave home (at least out of town trips) without it. So, it's good to have an intended use-model or vision to guide your choice, but expect to find it handy or fun for many other unexpected purposes. I like something small enough to fit literally in a T shirt pocket, as well as on the dashboard (velcro) as a heads-up display. I even carry some short pre-cut lengths of sticky-back male velcro for use in rental cars. For long-duration use, consider car power cords (buy/make), to save batteries. Never rely on the GPS as your sole source of navigation, especially to get home safely. It's a useful adjunct, helps you get your bearings and keep track of time and space, etc, but be sure if you lose it, you can still find your way. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 14 16:29:26 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 14 16:28:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <9707618f550372b5e7fa59627b0a3ff7@ptd.net> Message-ID: <90924D42-E29B-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Earl, Look up the coordinates of some easily viewable point. Move the hand around over it until you get the same coordinates and you can figure out where the 'pointer' is. Kreigh On Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009, at 09:51 America/Detroit, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Dear List, > > Many of us now use Google Earth to view our favorite mineral localities > and, in some cases, figure out how to get there. I also use it to > pinpoint > localities in terms of their latitude/longitude or, equivalently, > their UTM > coordinates. And that leads me to my question -- when you move the > hand > tool around on a satellite image, the lat/long of the hand is > continuously > recorded at the bottom. But to what PART of the hand do these > coordinates > pertain? I can understand using a pointer, where the tip of the arrow > is > where the coordinates are measured, but I'm stymied by that stupid hand > thing. Does anyone know the answer? Or is there some way of > converting > the hand to a pointer so I can get an accurate measurement? > > Thanks to anyone who can help! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Jan 14 17:25:47 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Jan 14 17:25:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <20090114230332.87A7A1CC44@io.frii.com> References: <20090114230332.87A7A1CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <8B6D88C3-EE43-40FE-8ED5-8076F1CD7418@heidelberg.edu> Thanks, Alan. You're the one that pushed me over the edge with your last post to the group. I particularly like your last paragraph... I don't plan on losing it, but after I got lost in Canada in a 3/4 mile triangle of woods, I got a compass and the next time I went out, I sat down on a rock with it in my back pocket and shattered it! It's always good to have the mind involved too. Pete On Jan 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: > Pete et al, > >> I think it is about time I got one, and I'd like to ask opinions >> about >> getting a good but inexpensive one. My main interest is to have >> something to log where I'm going when I'm wandering in the woods... > > You have many choices, I like Garmin models, shrug. Excellent user > interfaces (speaking as someone with actual Human Factors training), > reliable, rugged, and good customer service. > > Let me give generic advice. I got my GPS unit over ten years ago (!) > as a gift, and I'm still using it very well. I didn't think I had > a lot > of uses for it, but now I hardly leave home (at least out of town > trips) > without it. So, it's good to have an intended use-model or vision to > guide your choice, but expect to find it handy or fun for many other > unexpected purposes. > > I like something small enough to fit literally in a T shirt pocket, as > well as on the dashboard (velcro) as a heads-up display. I even carry > some short pre-cut lengths of sticky-back male velcro for use in > rental > cars. For long-duration use, consider car power cords (buy/make), to > save batteries. > > Never rely on the GPS as your sole source of navigation, especially to > get home safely. It's a useful adjunct, helps you get your > bearings and > keep track of time and space, etc, but be sure if you lose it, you can > still find your way. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jan 14 18:44:09 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jan 14 18:44:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: References: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <496EA2F9.2060208@verizon.net> R. Peter Richards wrote: > This recent thread, especially the part that relates to GPS, prompts me > to plumb the experience of GPS users. Plumbian GPS users... time to get the lead out... Well, I have always used Garmin; a GPS III+, a GPS V that got lost in the field because it was BLACK, and now a gray GPS 60CSx with 6 ft. of pink flagging tape tied to it. They were all state-of-the art at time of purchase, and all serve(d)very well. I think many brands do the same thing as far as navigating, it is a matter of bells and whistles--for example, mine has more memory so I can store more detailed topo maps, and it has a color display (though I suspect most of them do now). It interfaces to my laptop (as do many), is water-resistant, lasts a long time on batteries, can be powered from the USB port, locks on quickly, and best of all has a super-hetero-DNA-helix antenna (or something like that) that cuts through all but the deepest forest cover. To me, that is the most important thing now! The first time I got really lost, I had my GPS V and my laptop with TopoUSA, but could not get satellites. Now I rarely have that problem. The good thing is that the Garmin website has a listing of all their models, along with features and software bundles, and prices from very low to crazy high. You want to know about the number of waypoints it stores. There is also a "backtrack" or "breadcrumb" feature, as it is called on some of them, if you are interested in getting back out the way you came in. Me, I use the tracking feature in TopoUSA on my laptop, so I'm not sure how many back-track waypoints mine stores, but it can store a healthy amount. Be aware that there are two general GPS camps these days: the automotive navigators, and the field units. The auto GPSs have neat features like voice commands and point-of-view perspective, and you can do things like find nearby restaurants, but these are not meant for field use. Hope this helps... and you can always call the 800 number of Garmin (or Magellan) and ask questions. I have found that the major GPS companies are very helpful about choosing a product. Good luck, Don From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 19:02:53 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:02:56 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. Message-ID: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called "mountain leather." So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining experience, I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. However, they want my money before letting me read the paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it look like, and have any of you found any? The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like something Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I don't want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with it.) Be Well! Kris Rowe Lapidary Specialties --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smkell45 at aol.com Wed Jan 14 19:09:17 2009 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:09:38 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB44D5C9C57764-E80-D97@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: Kris Rowe To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:02 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. Hi.Check www.mindat.org for mountain leather. smkell Howdy, y'all! I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called "mountain leather." So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining experience, I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. However, they want my money before letting me read the paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it look like, and have any of you found any? The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like something Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I don't want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with it.) Be Well! Kris Rowe Lapidary Specialties --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Jan 14 19:24:09 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:24:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <496EA2F9.2060208@verizon.net> References: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> <496EA2F9.2060208@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000f01c976c0$baf55b10$30e01130$@com> When my GPS V died I picked up a Etrex Venture HC, for many of the same reasons that you list. I like it and don't think it can be beat for the price. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:44 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question R. Peter Richards wrote: > This recent thread, especially the part that relates to GPS, prompts me > to plumb the experience of GPS users. Plumbian GPS users... time to get the lead out... Well, I have always used Garmin; a GPS III+, a GPS V that got lost in the field because it was BLACK, and now a gray GPS 60CSx with 6 ft. of pink flagging tape tied to it. They were all state-of-the art at time of purchase, and all serve(d)very well. I think many brands do the same thing as far as navigating, it is a matter of bells and whistles--for example, mine has more memory so I can store more detailed topo maps, and it has a color display (though I suspect most of them do now). It interfaces to my laptop (as do many), is water-resistant, lasts a long time on batteries, can be powered from the USB port, locks on quickly, and best of all has a super-hetero-DNA-helix antenna (or something like that) that cuts through all but the deepest forest cover. To me, that is the most important thing now! The first time I got really lost, I had my GPS V and my laptop with TopoUSA, but could not get satellites. Now I rarely have that problem. The good thing is that the Garmin website has a listing of all their models, along with features and software bundles, and prices from very low to crazy high. You want to know about the number of waypoints it stores. There is also a "backtrack" or "breadcrumb" feature, as it is called on some of them, if you are interested in getting back out the way you came in. Me, I use the tracking feature in TopoUSA on my laptop, so I'm not sure how many back-track waypoints mine stores, but it can store a healthy amount. Be aware that there are two general GPS camps these days: the automotive navigators, and the field units. The auto GPSs have neat features like voice commands and point-of-view perspective, and you can do things like find nearby restaurants, but these are not meant for field use. Hope this helps... and you can always call the 800 number of Garmin (or Magellan) and ask questions. I have found that the major GPS companies are very helpful about choosing a product. Good luck, Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 19:45:38 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:45:41 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52909.96370.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Mountain leather is a hydrated weathering product of amphibole. The mineral name is Palygorskite. Most often it resembles a wad of crumpled up paper akin to discharge lint from your washing machine. To most it looks like litter and is easily overlooked. It can also be called "Mountain Cork" and come in pads or sheets as well. Try Googleing images of "Mountain Leather, Mountain Cork", or Palygorskite. Visit . etc. It comes from one or more amphiboles/chain silicates? e.g tremolite. IIRC, Its parent source rock can be from a pegmatite or the hornfels zone where a dolomite/carbonate has been invaded by a pegmatite. I have found specimens in the Franklin Marble District of NJ and in SE Pennsylvania. I think it is one of the obligatory specimens to own because it is so "un-mineral" looking and impresses newbies with the marvelous differences that are found in the mineral world. Eman From calcite65 at embarqmail.com Wed Jan 14 19:45:51 2009 From: calcite65 at embarqmail.com (charles creekmur) Date: Wed Jan 14 19:45:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <8CB44D5C9C57764-E80-D97@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> <8CB44D5C9C57764-E80-D97@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: The mineral, palygorskite, is known as mountain leather. The piece in my collection looks like a old Readers Digest that has laid out in the rain and weather for years. It is soft, pliable and does not look or feel like a mineral at all. Search on Mindat.org for description and pictures. Charles On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kris Rowe > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:02 pm > Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather > ... and looking for pictures. > > Hi.Check www.mindat.org for mountain leather. smkell > > > > > > > > > Howdy, y'all! > I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last > evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) > with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials > written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called > "mountain leather." > So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining > experience, > I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million > year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. > However, they want my money before letting me read the > paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for > FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and > decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it > look like, and have any of you found any? > > The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like something > Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile > to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the > same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing > it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* > Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily > available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. > So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I don't > want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My > sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with > it.) > > Be Well! > Kris Rowe > Lapidary Specialties > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jan 14 20:05:16 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:05:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496EB5FC.1010002@verizon.net> Kris Rowe wrote: Greetings down south, "Mountain leather" is usually a mineral called palygorskite. mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/palygors/palygors.htm www.mine-engineer.com/mining/mineral/palygorskite.htm Unfortunately, there are a host of other minerals, such as fibrous tremolite, that are nicknamed "mountain leather," and some of these others fall under the category of regulated asbestos products. So searches will then reveal some confusing information, some of it alarmist, since it depends upon whose information you read (remember my motto: the great benefit of public access to the Internet is that any fool can post a page; the great disaster of public access to the Internet is that every fool has posted a page). Keep in mind also that this is a colloquial name with no formal definition. I'm sure this term has been applied to any matted, fibrous mineral (or mineraloid, or assemblage of minerals) that people have found around the world. From samidon8 at comcast.net Wed Jan 14 20:07:01 2009 From: samidon8 at comcast.net (Sheryl Amidon) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:07:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How about this? http://www.mindat.org/min-9168.html Take care, Sheryl Amidon -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kris Rowe Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 10:03 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather... and looking for pictures. Howdy, y'all! I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called "mountain leather." So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining experience, I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. However, they want my money before letting me read the paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it look like, and have any of you found any? The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like something Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I don't want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with it.) Be Well! Kris Rowe Lapidary Specialties --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 14 20:09:02 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:08:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3E47B8A0-E2BA-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> You are looking for Palygorskite. On Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009, at 22:02 America/Detroit, Kris Rowe wrote: > what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it > look like, and have any of you found any? > > From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Wed Jan 14 20:20:29 2009 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:20:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Running out of space (Was, something else...) In-Reply-To: <200901150202.n0F22nD8004915@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200901150202.n0F22nD8004915@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20090114202032.C21A39B9@dm37.mta.everyone.net> At 09:02 PM 1/14/2009, you wrote: Hehehe... In our front hallway into the house, my wife has a glass encased corner display case that had her cat figurines collection in it. For the longest time, I was not allowed to use it for rocks. :) One day she asked if she could use a polished slab I had as a base for one of her cat figures. Hehehe... it wasn't long before a few more where "mounted" on rocks and soon it became a prime display with some of my prized specimens with little kitten and cat figurines perched in a majestic balancing act atop the specimen. Our Next house will have more display space, but I still will mix the two because they just seem to really fit together well. -Steve >Message: 4 >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:26:44 EST >From: Pmodreski@aol.com >Subject: Re: Running out of space {was: Re: [Rockhounds] AD - Cabinet > Size specimens} >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Grins to that, Kreigh. > >You could try starting to sneak a few specimens (such as I described) into >that cabinet, and squeeze some of the China closer together... you >know, just >say, "Well, this is "China" too, you know". > > > > >In a message dated 1/13/2009 9:24:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > >Pete, > >The 'China Cabinet' contains our best tableware (much of it was wedding >gifts). I can only wish for the display space for mineral specimens. > >Kreigh Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com From OnyxCollector at aol.com Wed Jan 14 20:38:47 2009 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:39:06 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and ... Message-ID: Bought a cool specimen from eBay seller FromMotherEarth about 2" x 3" from the Butler Claims in Fresno County, California, soft pliable, exactly as previously described like an old wet bunch of paper. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 20:39:26 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Jan 14 20:39:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <3E47B8A0-E2BA-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> <3E47B8A0-E2BA-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901142039i58abafado4c988c3ee8447a6e@mail.gmail.com> Muchos Gracias, y'all! I'll be able to sleep soundly, knowing that I'm still making progress on my ultimate goal ... knowing every possible (preferably pointless) fact that I can! *grin!* Thanks and ... Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > You are looking for Palygorskite. > > > On Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009, at 22:02 America/Detroit, Kris Rowe wrote: > > what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it >> look like, and have any of you found any? >> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 22:40:35 2009 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Jan 14 22:40:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections References: <200901140200.n0E20Nl2002431@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <227464.3306.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a nice hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are now part of my historic junk collection. The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. (smile) And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now a shrine to collecting.... ...tina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From VevaBailey at aol.com Wed Jan 14 23:04:31 2009 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 14 23:04:38 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections Message-ID: Hi all, A friend of mine found a large beautiful piece of Lapis in the Carson River not far from my home. Someone just dumped their collection back in the river. He found petrified wood too. I really think it is a shame that we don't have more "kids" interested in our "hobbies". I am always telling my Grandkids, to "bring me ROCKS". If they look pretty or what send Rocks!! Veva Bailey In a message dated 1/14/2009 10:41:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tangojuli@yahoo.com writes: Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a nice hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are now part of my historic junk collection. The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. (smile) And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now a shrine to collecting.... ...tina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 23:12:32 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Wed Jan 14 23:12:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather ... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901142039i58abafado4c988c3ee8447a6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> <3E47B8A0-E2BA-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <831c9ad10901142039i58abafado4c988c3ee8447a6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901142312v685acf84ka826582284bc3fe2@mail.gmail.com> My wonderful man, you are my dream man and I love you! On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Kris Rowe wrote: > Muchos Gracias, y'all! I'll be able to sleep soundly, knowing that I'm > still making progress on my ultimate goal ... knowing every possible > (preferably pointless) fact that I can! *grin!* > > Thanks and ... Be Well! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski < > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> wrote: > >> You are looking for Palygorskite. >> >> >> On Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009, at 22:02 America/Detroit, Kris Rowe wrote: >> >> what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it >>> look like, and have any of you found any? >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Thu Jan 15 04:35:05 2009 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Thu Jan 15 04:35:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections Message-ID: Touching story on the topic of "Disposing of Collections".......... Summer of 2008, Art Weinle, one of the founding members of the Michigan Earth Science Teachers Association (MESTA) was diagnosed with a terminal cancer. He was a life long educator with several degrees in Geology and the Earth Sciences. He worked with teachers and students of all ages as well as helping to establish State standards for the teaching of Earth Science. His collection was extensive to say the least, and VERY well organized with the sample name, classification, geologic age, place collected, chemistry, ...etc. Knowing he was terminal, his last wish was to see his life time collection distributed to teachers that would share his work with students. Some 30 Earth Science teachers were to meet at his home to divide up his collection. Art wanted to be able to answer geology guestions and tell stories about his finds. Unfortunately, he passed 6 days before the "giveaway party". He lives on through his collection which is now spread throughout Michigan and Ohio. Each teacher received some 80+ samples of rocks and minerals along with some yard pieces. There are also other members of MESTA who have named MESTA in their wills to "dispose" of their collections when the time comes. Bill Dicks Teacher, Northville High School Board Member, Michigan Earth Science Teachers Association >>> tangojuli@yahoo.com 01/15/09 1:40 AM >>> Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a nice hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are now part of my historic junk collection. The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. (smile) And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now a shrine to collecting.... ...tina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From totis99 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 05:32:43 2009 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Thu Jan 15 05:32:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] mountain leather and rectorite pictures. In-Reply-To: <8CB44D5C9C57764-E80-D97@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <517616.3896.qm@web36708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In several trips to Jeffrey Quarry in Pulaski County, Arkansas, there were frequent 'pieces' of what I was taught was mountain leather AKA rectorite. When wet, it's appears to be a somewhat slippery brownish mudlike substance that you suddenly realizes has a form..sorta. Once removed from the crystals we were collecting, we would lay it out to dry. The below link from Mindat includes a couple pics and composition etc for those of you who enjoy reading the chemical and relationship stuff. http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?min=3377 Also, there is a link to a page on Stuart Schmitt's website that refers to it. http://www.arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 Totally different direction and information than what has been posted so far, so I thought it might be helpful. Teresa O. From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jan 15 06:53:49 2009 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jan 15 06:44:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another Question Message-ID: <002701c97721$138e2a80$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> To the list: I am looking for information about hydrothermal feldspars. I have a specimen of petrified wood enclosed partially by chalcedony. There is also an outer area of feldspar directly on the chalcedony. My thinking is that this is a true hydrothermal feldspar. I need some help from the list's feldspar experts. Is hydrothermal feldspar very common? Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 07:12:09 2009 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:12:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS, compasses, storage room, etc Message-ID: <364984.62537.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: It's 9:30 am, 14 degrees F, and my neighbor's gas is off.? Wheee, are we having fun yet?? At least my gas is OK, so I offered them all the warm space they can use. Regarding storage room, when my sweet wife Martha lost her patience with having every horizontal surface covered with rocks - mostly attractive ones to be sure -? I proposed we start to build a new garage/workship/storage building, an unscheduled project we hadn't gotten around to.? She was an enthusiastic supporter. The size was TBD by how big a flat spot we could make.? There was a start at a flat spot where we dumped removed earth while making a flat place to build the house back in 1991.? I wanted to have room for vehicles beside and around the workshop, too. Turned out to be 24 by 48, two story.? I got interested in a building technique called Integrated Concrete Forms, ICF, which produces a styrofoam form to pour wet concrete into.? When it sets up, you have reinforced concrete walls with R-50 insulation.? It's a nifty building technique, you can just route out slots for plumbing and wiring in the styrofoam, and it's way easy to heat and cool.? Only down side, expensive, more than I expected - amazing how much the cost of a yard of concrete went up since 1991-92 when we built the house. Now the ground floor garage has a tractor (with backhoe & loader attached, it's pretty big), a small elderly sports car (I inherited it from my Dad, who loved topdown runabouts, it makes me smile to drive it on his behalf) a chest freezer, it's pretty full.? The guys are telling me I should build a shed nearby for the tractor and its tools.? Before, people were making fun of me for how big it was!! I intend to use upstairs for storing worthy rocks, and working on the collection, cleaning, trimming, photography and cataloging.? It may also have barndance parties too, but only if I manage to maintain free space in the middle.? So that's my solution to the running out of space problem.? More space! GPS...Google Earth, hand pointer.? In most of my experience developing software, the action point of every pointer in every tool we use to develope software (and in the deployed tools we built) is either the very top (sorta the end of the middle finger for a hand) or the top left for a regular pointer.? But if you've tried it out and determined that the center of the hand is the actively hot spot, I won't argue about it.? But it should be a more easily identified and specified spot like those I described. GPS - I use a Garmin, it works every time.? Vertical results are the least accurate, a friend showed me why this must bve so.? These gadgets work by timing pulses sent out by the sats, and the differences in the timing are what your handheld uses to compute where it is.? The differences in timing for vertical changes are trivially small compared to the giant differences horizontal changes make, so the norizontal set of coordinates is much more accurate.? Years ago I was in the high mountain forest of north-eastern WV in late November or early December.? Mid 1970s when winters were more dependably severe, especially over 3500 feet.? The mountain top was rolling hills and hollows, all pretty similar.? I was east of the road we were camped beside, and I had a little gadget with a waterproof compartment full of strike-anywhere matches, and a compass on one end, along with a pocket of munchies and a gun, for Mr Deer. Then a heavy snow squall popped up.? No big deal, there was already quite a bit of snow, and the fresh snow might help track a deer.? Then I realized that the snow was blowing one direction on top of the ridges, and another direction down in the hollows.? I couldn't just go against the snow direction to get back to the road.? Because I had a compass it was easy - I don't want to think how hard it might have gotten without it. When I got back to the truck (actually a very early SUV called a LandCruiser, shaped like a cinder block, slow, uncomfortable, no cup holders!, gas hog, but very sturdy) we learned that they were suddenly calling for a couple of feet of new snow on top of the foot or so already present, so we threw camp in the back and split for town.? Always carry a compass!!!? Always!!? Rock shops should make you buy one to get a guide book! Garmin is my fav for GPS units, only Trimble is better, and they cost 2 or 3 times as much for marginal improvements. ? Now I'm planning to build a small house in SE Arizona.? Some folks really like ICF building out there, it's so strong (and insulated!) when done right.? Others build with regular masonry, or adobe, or even straw bale covered with gunnite.? I don't know which to plan for, but I do know I want it to look organically present in the landscape of high desert (5600 feet) where it will set. Plus I'm more broke now, so I want it inexpensive, which ICF almost can't be!? Feel free to comment, all the materials involve minerals so it's kinda relevant.? I also plan to use the place as a base for many collecting trips, and you can see a couple fom mining districts from the hill (Gleeson/Courtland and Turquoise Mtn) so there's quite a bit of relevance, really. argh!? Decisions, decisions, I hate 'em. We still plan to hit Tucson at least a little next month, so I might see some of you there. KoR, JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From OnyxCollector at aol.com Thu Jan 15 08:54:16 2009 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:54:49 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections Message-ID: I shudder to think of all the collections thrown away by uncaring relatives, since just by myself I have seen it happen time and time again. Overhearing the grandkids plan on dismantling the 48 inch diamond saw with a crane and tossing it in the alley in Bakersfield....... finding a pile of saws, polishing units, and tumblers sitting in the gutter in Reseda....... meeting a young guy whose neighbors' kids threw away a 40 foot dumpster of tools and crystal/mineral collection in Big Bear (he rescued it all and made a tidy profit)...... getting a late night phone call from someone I never met asking me to please empty a bedroom packed with display cases of material the next morning because they didn't have time to throw it all away "before the Realtor gets here" in Van Nuys. It's horrible. In a message dated 1/14/2009 11:05:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, VevaBailey@aol.com writes: Hi all, A friend of mine found a large beautiful piece of Lapis in the Carson River not far from my home. Someone just dumped their collection back in the river. He found petrified wood too. I really think it is a shame that we don't have more "kids" interested in our "hobbies". I am always telling my Grandkids, to "bring me ROCKS". If they look pretty or what send Rocks!! Veva Bailey In a message dated 1/14/2009 10:41:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tangojuli@yahoo.com writes: Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a nice hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are now part of my historic junk collection. The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. (smile) And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now a shrine to collecting.... ...tina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Jan 15 08:55:24 2009 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Thu Jan 15 08:55:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather... and looking for pictures. References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kris, Rectorite is also called "Mountain Leather" when it dries. My geologist friend wrote this about that: "Now this Jeffrey Quarry Quartz grows in this "Rectorite" named after a lawyer that lived in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is a jelly when in the rock fractures. The quartz grows in this jelly and that is why every crystal is double terminated, unless it grew on the sandstone. When you dig the quartz out of the fractures, the rectorite hits the air and turns to what is called "Mountain Leather". It's some neat stuff and is a clay mineral. It is flexible just like leather. If you look at it close, you will usually see small double terminated quartz crystals." I have more information about the source on this web page: http://arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 If you would like a piece of it please contact me off line. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris Rowe" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather... and looking for pictures. > Howdy, y'all! > I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last > evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) > with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials > written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called > "mountain leather." > So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining > experience, > I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million > year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. > However, they want my money before letting me read the > paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for > FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and > decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it > look like, and have any of you found any? > > The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like > something > Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile > to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the > same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing > it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* > Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily > available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. > So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I > don't > want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My > sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with > it.) > > Be Well! > Kris Rowe > Lapidary Specialties > > From ajs at frii.com Thu Jan 15 09:23:06 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Jan 15 09:23:09 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections In-Reply-To: <227464.3306.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090115172307.015221CC44@io.frii.com> > My fiance has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise > to dispose of my collection... I told my wife and daughter that if for some reason I don't handle that chore myself, they should: Go through and take any mementos they want, load all the rest into a pickup truck, take it all over to a monthly Rockhounds club meeting, lay 'em out, and give 'em all away. If desired, put out a donations jar too, but I won't care. :-) As someone else sagely observed, the purpose of my collection is my own entertainment. I have no illusions of permanence, or even value to others (at least as a collection). The rocks are just passing through my hands briefly on their billion-year journeys. But I'd hate to see 'em landfilled if they could bring someone else pleasure. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jan 15 10:12:44 2009 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jan 15 10:03:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountainleather... and looking for pictures. References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000c01c9773c$dcde7780$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> Hello Stuart, your description fits what we here in Dutchess County, New York have been calling "mountain leather" instead of doubly terminated quartz crystals we have very nice calcite crystals. The vein of mountain leather is in marble with diopside. It looks like the pictures you posted. When collected it is a wet fibrous material with the marble-sized calcite crystals. When dry it looks like stiff chamois and could mistaken for very old road kill. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stu Schmitt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountainleather... and looking for pictures. > Hi Kris, > > Rectorite is also called "Mountain Leather" when it dries. My geologist > friend wrote this about that: > > "Now this Jeffrey Quarry Quartz grows in this "Rectorite" named after a > lawyer that lived in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is a jelly when in the rock > fractures. The quartz grows in this jelly and that is why every crystal is > double terminated, unless it grew on the sandstone. When you dig the quartz > out of the fractures, the rectorite hits the air and turns to what is called > "Mountain Leather". It's some neat stuff and is a clay mineral. It is > flexible just like leather. If you look at it close, you will usually see > small double terminated quartz crystals." > > I have more information about the source on this web page: > http://arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 > > If you would like a piece of it please contact me off line. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kris Rowe" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:02 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain leather... > and looking for pictures. > > > > Howdy, y'all! > > I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last > > evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember correctly) > > with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials > > written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called > > "mountain leather." > > So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining > > experience, > > I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million > > year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on ScienceDirect. > > However, they want my money before letting me read the > > paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for > > FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and > > decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does it > > look like, and have any of you found any? > > > > The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like > > something > > Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile > > to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, the > > same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing > > it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* > > Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily > > available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. > > So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I > > don't > > want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My > > sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying with > > it.) > > > > Be Well! > > Kris Rowe > > Lapidary Specialties > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Thu Jan 15 11:17:04 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Thu Jan 15 11:17:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS, compasses, storage room, etc In-Reply-To: <364984.62537.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <364984.62537.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6a2ee7059e941c4a5e877eb2585655cf@ptd.net> A big Thank You! to all who have commented on the various GPS issues -- not only my original question, but all the topics that followed. It's been a most illuminating discussion. Thanks for all you've contributed... I'll add to the chorus of Garmin enthusiasts. I use the same model that Don mentioned, and like it because I've rarely experienced problems with getting a satellite signal in the forest. Also I don't have to worry about the rain -- the unit is waterproof. The batteries last quite a long time, too, which is a property I *really* value. JR, for your new house in AZ, maybe look into rammed earth construction too. You can't beat ICF, but rammed earth houses are just so cool -- and they blend into the landscape so very well. Cheers- Earl From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Thu Jan 15 11:19:00 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Thu Jan 15 11:19:06 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> References: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Sorry for creating confusion. I meant NAD83, one of those typos influenced by also thinking of the NAD27 and the fingers being confused. Some time back I'd read that NAD83 was the US equivalent to WGS84. NAD 83 is what the latest topo maps were using. However, I decided to do a little more searching this morning now that this has come up. And I see that there is a minor difference, so I guess I'll now go with the latest, modern, most spiffy WGS84. I used to use NAD27 because the top maps in the western US were made with that datum. Now with all the electronic, automatic conversion and I no longer plot by hand on paper, the GPS, and the computer mapping programs make those conversions automatically, so WGS84 it is. I agree, Google Earth must be using WGS84. In this area, there is no "on the ground" difference between NAD83 and WGS84. The difference between NAD27 and WGS84 was somewhere around 50 feet latitude and 70 feet longitude when I compared readings. Regards, Lanny On Jan 14, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: > Lanny et al, > >> With the GPS set on NAD23/WGS84 and using decimal minutes... > > Good, you understand datums, most people don't. Several articles past > in Rock & Gem talked about mysterious systematic errors (hundreds of > feet) using a GPS, with no awareness of this issue. At a Denver > show, I > got a chance to explain this to one of the magazine's editors. I > guess > most users don't read the User's Guide! > > Anyway, did you mean WGS83/WGS84? Never heard of NAD23, maybe you > mean > NAD27 (+ CONUS = continental US in my Garmin), which is NOT the same > as > WGS83/WGS84. > > I believe Google uses WGS84, and you can find this fact buried > somewhere > if you search for it on the web. > > I've had good experiences logging waypoints in the field, setting the > GPS to the right datum and format for output, entering the exact > numbers > (no extra fanfare) in the Google Maps search box, and (poof) I'm > centered right on that spot, or acceptably close to it. Quite > interesting, for example, figuring out after a long hike in the > desert, > where exactly (in the satellite view that is) you ended up. > > For example, enter "37.70608 -110.55080" to see where we turned around > about three miles up Ticaboo Canyon (off Good Hope Bay, Lake Powell) > last September. > > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Thu Jan 15 11:33:25 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Thu Jan 15 11:33:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: <90924D42-E29B-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <90924D42-E29B-11DD-92BC-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi Kreigh, The thought is good, but that probably won't really work to make this determination. Do we know where the measurement for any given "point" or object was made? Was it the center of the building? The front steps? The center of an intersection? Considering that and the resolution of the GE satellite photos and the width of the hand, one can get all sorts of readings putting the hand on a "point." Lanny On Jan 14, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Earl, > > Look up the coordinates of some easily viewable point. Move the hand > around over it until you get the same coordinates and you can figure > out where the 'pointer' is. > > Kreigh > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Jan 15 11:49:40 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Thu Jan 15 11:49:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lanny- I think what Kreigh is suggesting is something like this--turn on the Lat/Long. grid in GE, then move the hand to an intersection of labeled lat/long. lines. Compare that known location with the readout of the hand location given at the lower left of the window. I used that to find the hand location is the center of the hand's palm--not a very precise pointer. Jim Murowchick On 1/15/09 1:33 PM, "Lanny R" wrote: > Hi Kreigh, > > The thought is good, but that probably won't really work to make this > determination. > > Do we know where the measurement for any given "point" or object was > made? Was it the center of the building? The front steps? The center > of an intersection? Considering that and the resolution of the GE > satellite photos and the width of the hand, one can get all sorts of > readings putting the hand on a "point." > > Lanny > > > On Jan 14, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> Earl, >> >> Look up the coordinates of some easily viewable point. Move the hand >> around over it until you get the same coordinates and you can figure >> out where the 'pointer' is. >> >> Kreigh >> From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 12:19:06 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 15 12:19:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd find a local USGS marker with a surveyed lat/long and find that on Google earth. Usually one at the county seat. You can search for them by zip code on this page: BK On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 14:49, Jim Murowchick wrote: > Lanny- > I think what Kreigh is suggesting is something like this--turn on the > Lat/Long. grid in GE, then move the hand to an intersection of labeled > lat/long. lines. Compare that known location with the readout of the hand > location given at the lower left of the window. I used that to find the > hand location is the center of the hand's palm--not a very precise pointer. > Jim Murowchick > > > On 1/15/09 1:33 PM, "Lanny R" wrote: > > > Hi Kreigh, > > > > The thought is good, but that probably won't really work to make this > > determination. > > > > Do we know where the measurement for any given "point" or object was > > made? Was it the center of the building? The front steps? The center > > of an intersection? Considering that and the resolution of the GE > > satellite photos and the width of the hand, one can get all sorts of > > readings putting the hand on a "point." > > > > Lanny > > > > > > On Jan 14, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > >> Earl, > >> > >> Look up the coordinates of some easily viewable point. Move the hand > >> around over it until you get the same coordinates and you can figure > >> out where the 'pointer' is. > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Jan 15 12:46:57 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Thu Jan 15 12:47:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] GPS, compasses, storage room, etc In-Reply-To: <6a2ee7059e941c4a5e877eb2585655cf@ptd.net> References: <364984.62537.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <6a2ee7059e941c4a5e877eb2585655cf@ptd.net> Message-ID: <002f01c97752$68a29980$39e7cc80$@com> I saw a test of the GPS V on a GPS enthusiast website many moons ago where they laid the unit on a USGS benchmark for about 24 hours and then plotted the cords of the Garmin track over time against the USGS' "official" coordinates. Within 5 minutes it was so close to the USGS coords that only an Uber-nerd would need more precision; after 15 minutes or so the unit was right on top of the actual coordinates and I couldn't distinguish any variance on the graph. And, it stayed there due to the position averaging algorithm in the GPS V. Most amazing was that this was _before_ WAAS (but after SA was turned in 2000). I ordered one online about 5 minutes later :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Earl R. Verbeek Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:17 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] GPS, compasses, storage room, etc A big Thank You! to all who have commented on the various GPS issues -- not only my original question, but all the topics that followed. It's been a most illuminating discussion. Thanks for all you've contributed... I'll add to the chorus of Garmin enthusiasts. I use the same model that Don mentioned, and like it because I've rarely experienced problems with getting a satellite signal in the forest. Also I don't have to worry about the rain -- the unit is waterproof. The batteries last quite a long time, too, which is a property I *really* value. JR, for your new house in AZ, maybe look into rammed earth construction too. You can't beat ICF, but rammed earth houses are just so cool -- and they blend into the landscape so very well. Cheers- Earl -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Jan 15 13:08:31 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Thu Jan 15 13:08:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: References: <20090114214713.E01931CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <003301c97755$6cc1de60$46459b20$@com> I missed that post, but I verified that Google earth, MS Terraserver, etc. all use WGS84. It's kind of a global standard now. If you need incredible precision (as in, more precise than the published error on USGS 7.5' topo maps, which is 33 feet), with NAD27 you should use the grid for the western US in the west and for the eastern US in the east (the Mississippi is the dividing line). NAD83 (the mean for the continental US (CONUS), or pick your flavor for other countries) is indeed the CONUS equivalent to WGS84; the centroids of the two grids are less than a meter apart (but the difference increases as you move away from the centroid of the CONUS). And the net difference between NAD27 and NAD83 is more than one might think; in Alaska it is >200 meters and in Portland, OR it is 96 meters. If that ain't geographical geek-speak I don't know what is! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny R Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:19 AM To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question Hi Alan, Sorry for creating confusion. I meant NAD83, one of those typos influenced by also thinking of the NAD27 and the fingers being confused. Some time back I'd read that NAD83 was the US equivalent to WGS84. NAD 83 is what the latest topo maps were using. However, I decided to do a little more searching this morning now that this has come up. And I see that there is a minor difference, so I guess I'll now go with the latest, modern, most spiffy WGS84. I used to use NAD27 because the top maps in the western US were made with that datum. Now with all the electronic, automatic conversion and I no longer plot by hand on paper, the GPS, and the computer mapping programs make those conversions automatically, so WGS84 it is. I agree, Google Earth must be using WGS84. In this area, there is no "on the ground" difference between NAD83 and WGS84. The difference between NAD27 and WGS84 was somewhere around 50 feet latitude and 70 feet longitude when I compared readings. Regards, Lanny On Jan 14, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: > Lanny et al, > >> With the GPS set on NAD23/WGS84 and using decimal minutes... > > Good, you understand datums, most people don't. Several articles past > in Rock & Gem talked about mysterious systematic errors (hundreds of > feet) using a GPS, with no awareness of this issue. At a Denver > show, I > got a chance to explain this to one of the magazine's editors. I > guess > most users don't read the User's Guide! > > Anyway, did you mean WGS83/WGS84? Never heard of NAD23, maybe you > mean > NAD27 (+ CONUS = continental US in my Garmin), which is NOT the same > as > WGS83/WGS84. > > I believe Google uses WGS84, and you can find this fact buried > somewhere > if you search for it on the web. > > I've had good experiences logging waypoints in the field, setting the > GPS to the right datum and format for output, entering the exact > numbers > (no extra fanfare) in the Google Maps search box, and (poof) I'm > centered right on that spot, or acceptably close to it. Quite > interesting, for example, figuring out after a long hike in the > desert, > where exactly (in the satellite view that is) you ended up. > > For example, enter "37.70608 -110.55080" to see where we turned around > about three miles up Ticaboo Canyon (off Good Hope Bay, Lake Powell) > last September. > > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sginkusa at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 14:03:51 2009 From: sginkusa at gmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:03:56 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Sorry, Al, as I explained to Carolyn in my post before yours, the weight of a cubic foot of WATER is about 62 lbs; but ICE, because of it's curious physical properties, weighs less, *actually about 5 lbs less!* Yes, you are right, cubic foots of ice stacked up a mile high would make a mighty skinny glacier but at any given point on the bottom still exert over 151 tons of pressure. That's enough weight to deeply score underlying bedrock as the glacier flows, crush a bunch of SUVs or a whole pile of newborn baby elephants! Another cautionary: No actual elephants were harmed in providing this graphic example to you and Carolyn but I wouldn't mind seeing a Hummer or two flattened to the thickness of a pancake. Carolyn's question is a common one on New York Earth Science tests, where students wonder how you could pile up a mile high column of water one foot square, anyhow. Even stacking up newborn baby elephants is difficult, which is why during the last Ice Age, we used mastodons... Don Tuttle Previously glaciated and now just snowed in in NY. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Al Balmer wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > wrote: > > >To the list: > > > >How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile > high? > About 62 pounds, but a cubic foot one mile high is going to be mighty > thin. Did you meant a square foot in cross-section, one mile high? > > > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 14:18:46 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:18:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> <7c940c40d2a8e8e742456bfd0b90efa2@ptd.net> Message-ID: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > wrote: >> To the list: >> >> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile >> high? >> >> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >> >> Carolyn Reynard >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 14:30:30 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:30:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountainleather... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <000c01c9773c$dcde7780$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c9773c$dcde7780$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901151430v696cc4c2obe51c10e7f861ec9@mail.gmail.com> Hey, y'all! Thanks for the great replies to my question, and the great links to check out. I had the feeling that this was one of those names that seem to be applied to a plethora of materials. If you have a different or local material that this name is used for, please give us a comment. I'd love to get a specimen of whatever material you have as mountain leather, and have many California materials for trade. Just drop me a note. Thanks again for the great answers! Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties P.S: That anomalous post professing love was actually a midnight note from my lovely partner Laura. Our apologies to any reader who was nonplussed or ended up blushing! *grin!* On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > Hello Stuart, your description fits what we here in Dutchess County, New > York have been calling "mountain leather" instead of doubly terminated > quartz crystals we have very nice calcite crystals. The vein of mountain > leather is in marble with diopside. It looks like the pictures you posted. > When collected it is a wet fibrous material with the marble-sized calcite > crystals. When dry it looks like stiff chamois and could mistaken for very > old road kill. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stu Schmitt" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about > mountainleather... and looking for pictures. > > > > Hi Kris, > > > > Rectorite is also called "Mountain Leather" when it dries. My geologist > > friend wrote this about that: > > > > "Now this Jeffrey Quarry Quartz grows in this "Rectorite" named after a > > lawyer that lived in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is a jelly when in the > rock > > fractures. The quartz grows in this jelly and that is why every crystal > is > > double terminated, unless it grew on the sandstone. When you dig the > quartz > > out of the fractures, the rectorite hits the air and turns to what is > called > > "Mountain Leather". It's some neat stuff and is a clay mineral. It is > > flexible just like leather. If you look at it close, you will usually see > > small double terminated quartz crystals." > > > > I have more information about the source on this web page: > > http://arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 > > > > If you would like a piece of it please contact me off line. > > > > With appreciation & gratitude, > > Stuart Schmitt > > Clear Creek Crystal Mine > > www.arcrystalmine.com > > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > > (870) 867-2443 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kris Rowe" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:02 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain > leather... > > and looking for pictures. > > > > > > > Howdy, y'all! > > > I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last > > > evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember > correctly) > > > with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many materials > > > written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called > > > "mountain leather." > > > So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining > > > experience, > > > I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million > > > year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on > ScienceDirect. > > > However, they want my money before letting me read the > > > paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research paper? for > > > FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and > > > decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what does > it > > > look like, and have any of you found any? > > > > > > The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like > > > something > > > Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile > > > to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years old, > the > > > same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing > > > it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* > > > Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing readily > > > available online about this material, other than the mentioned paper. > > > So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you can. I > > > don't > > > want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My > > > sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were plaaying > with > > > it.) > > > > > > Be Well! > > > Kris Rowe > > > Lapidary Specialties > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Thu Jan 15 14:43:11 2009 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:43:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice, tangent) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090115224311.B6EED1CC44@io.frii.com> By the way, speaking of density, did you know that gypsum drywall floats? You can prove it to yourself. Cut a chunk, wrap it tightly in plastic (minimize air), and try it. I figured this out after my truck got stuck in snow delivering 10 sheets to our mountain cabin, and we hand-carried them one at a time the last few hundred feet, postholing knee-deep. Later I looked it up, and one (US) standard 4' x 8' x 1/2" sheet of drywall weighs about 52 lb. That's about 1.33 cu ft, and water is, lessee, 232 cu in / gallon and 8 lb/gallon, scratch scratch, so that much volume of water weighs around 80 lb? Even water ice is denser than drywall. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From rpr at heidelberg.edu Thu Jan 15 14:50:33 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:50:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice, tangent) In-Reply-To: <20090115224311.B6EED1CC44@io.frii.com> References: <20090115224311.B6EED1CC44@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Pretty expensive air in that gypsum board! Pete Richards On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: > By the way, speaking of density, did you know that gypsum drywall > floats? > > You can prove it to yourself. Cut a chunk, wrap it tightly in plastic > (minimize air), and try it. > > I figured this out after my truck got stuck in snow delivering 10 > sheets > to our mountain cabin, and we hand-carried them one at a time the last > few hundred feet, postholing knee-deep. Later I looked it up, and one > (US) standard 4' x 8' x 1/2" sheet of drywall weighs about 52 lb. > That's about 1.33 cu ft, and water is, lessee, 232 cu in / gallon > and 8 > lb/gallon, scratch scratch, so that much volume of water weighs around > 80 lb? Even water ice is denser than drywall. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jan 15 14:54:32 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jan 15 14:54:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space In-Reply-To: References: <200901130201.n0D21ORc005570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5E6CC23AF084411CA1B6CA782E39B6C1@AXELDESKTOP> Indeed, Johan, what a memory! Stockpiling radioactive material in ones bedroom is not really sane. I wonder if Peter has any children? I also wonder what they would look like... Whomever shares his reactor room won't have trouble locating him in the dark. There's only little radioactive stuff in my collection and nothing like primary uranium or thorium ore. A simple headcount suffices to make an inventory of my family. ROFL. The offspring of radon-breathing human subspecies may have more intricate forms, an extra head or two perhaps? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Johan Mineral Verizon > Verzonden: woensdag 14 januari 2009 2:29 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space > > Axel, what a memory. > > While in Denmark, I visited Peter's apartment with Kitty. > It was a miracle we could get in his one bedroom apartment at all. > Every square centimeter was filled with magazines, boxes, stuff. > I have seen quite a few packrats, but never anything like this. > My feet were to long to navigate the very narrow corridor he had > built between his boxes. > Of course there were a large quantity of radioactive minerals > > But Peter was very passionate about his hobby and he never saw his > place as a storage mess. > Aren't we all like that? > > > Moving ... done this twice and I still have not unpacked boxes from > twelve years ago. > Every time I open one during our mineral pick-nick the oh and ahs > from the attendees enlighten me. > > Remember guys: Beez, Mont-sur-Marchienne, Plombieres, Seilles, Cahay? > > Johan Maertens > Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 15:37:14 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Thu Jan 15 15:37:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] mountain leather and rectorite pictures. In-Reply-To: <517616.3896.qm@web36708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CB44D5C9C57764-E80-D97@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> <517616.3896.qm@web36708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901151537l8f796cfq2da320170476dd74@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Teresa! I'm having lots of fun with this question, and am looking forward to tramping about here in Fresno County to look for this strange material. Your info will help me to get the right stuff! Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties Fresno, California On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 5:32 AM, teresa otis wrote: > In several trips to Jeffrey Quarry in Pulaski County, Arkansas, there were > frequent 'pieces' of what I was taught was mountain leather AKA rectorite. > When wet, it's appears to be a somewhat slippery brownish mudlike substance > that you suddenly realizes has a form..sorta. Once removed from the > crystals we were collecting, we would lay it out to dry. The below link > from Mindat includes a couple pics and composition etc for those of you who > enjoy reading the chemical and relationship stuff. > > http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?min=3377 > Also, there is a link to a page on Stuart Schmitt's website that refers to > it. > http://www.arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 > > Totally different direction and information than what has been posted so > far, so I thought it might be helpful. > > Teresa O. > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Thu Jan 15 15:48:26 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Thu Jan 15 15:48:30 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Google Earth question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17F24116-6E5E-4D40-802E-E05E3E3ECF2A@roadrunner.com> Thanks Jim, Well of course, that makes it easy. I took Kreigh's suggestion to mean, get the coordinates of the Hoover Dam or the capitol building and go there. The grid obviously makes it easy. But then nothing is easy when you don't use the feature and forget it even exists! Lanny On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Jim Murowchick wrote: > Lanny- > I think what Kreigh is suggesting is something like this--turn on > the > Lat/Long. grid in GE, then move the hand to an intersection of labeled > lat/long. lines. Compare that known location with the readout of > the hand > location given at the lower left of the window. I used that to find > the > hand location is the center of the hand's palm--not a very precise > pointer. > Jim Murowchick > > > On 1/15/09 1:33 PM, "Lanny R" wrote: > >> Hi Kreigh, >> >> The thought is good, but that probably won't really work to make this >> determination. >> >> Do we know where the measurement for any given "point" or object was >> made? Was it the center of the building? The front steps? The center >> of an intersection? Considering that and the resolution of the GE >> satellite photos and the width of the hand, one can get all sorts of >> readings putting the hand on a "point." >> >> Lanny >> >> >> On Jan 14, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >>> Earl, >>> >>> Look up the coordinates of some easily viewable point. Move the hand >>> around over it until you get the same coordinates and you can figure >>> out where the 'pointer' is. >>> >>> Kreigh >>> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Thu Jan 15 16:04:41 2009 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Thu Jan 15 16:04:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountainleather... and looking for pictures. In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901151430v696cc4c2obe51c10e7f861ec9@mail.gmail.com> References: <831c9ad10901141902y1f7a1c9bi1a933c1707b74a0b@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c9773c$dcde7780$2be3ce45@feldsparflash> <831c9ad10901151430v696cc4c2obe51c10e7f861ec9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79AA9CEF-D0E8-4C33-A47B-FC6EB1D8557A@roadrunner.com> Kris, "Mountain Leather" is one of the terms applied locally referring to the nature of the beast. I'd always known it as referring to palygorskite, later also to richterite and then also to matted pieces of "byssolite" (the fine needle-like actinolite). Most likely, it's been applied to any other mineral in leather-like pieces. One of the best sources of palygorskite had been the Pend Oreille Mine in Metaline, Washington (presently in the process of shutting down again because of the low zinc prices). There, palygorskite occurs in large cavities in limestone and dolomite. Reportedly, in some of these cavities (and some were larger than "walk-in" size), palygorskite hung down in large sheets, like big drapes. The sheets of palygorskite were often studded with calcite crystals (acute rhombs, for which the mine is also known for). I never saw any of those sheets or large pieces of palygorskite, the cavities I was able to visit only had small sheets, clumps and masses. The palygorskite in the mine comes in a lot of textures from hard lumps to very soft doe-skin like or chamois-like sheets. The thick pieces are mostly hard and rigid when dry. It is amazing how soft some of the fine, thin sheets can be when dry. To really get grossed out, put a bunch of the softer material in a jar of water; after it has soaked up, reach in and squish it around with your hands... . The best specimens I've seen are string-like pieces hanging down with a calcite crystal on the end, sort of your natural gemstone pendants. Wish I had some of those. Regards, Lanny On Jan 15, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Kris Rowe wrote: > Hey, y'all! Thanks for the great replies to my question, and the > great links > to check out. I had the feeling that this was one of those names > that seem > to be applied to a plethora of materials. > If you have a different or local material that this name is used > for, please > give us a comment. I'd love to get a specimen of whatever material > you have > as mountain leather, and have many California materials for trade. > Just drop > me a note. > > Thanks again for the great answers! > > Be Well! > Kris > Lapidary Specialties > > P.S: That anomalous post professing love was actually a midnight > note from > my lovely partner Laura. Our apologies to any reader who was > nonplussed or > ended up blushing! *grin!* > > > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Carolyn Reynard >wrote: > >> Hello Stuart, your description fits what we here in Dutchess >> County, New >> York have been calling "mountain leather" instead of doubly >> terminated >> quartz crystals we have very nice calcite crystals. The vein of >> mountain >> leather is in marble with diopside. It looks like the pictures you >> posted. >> When collected it is a wet fibrous material with the marble-sized >> calcite >> crystals. When dry it looks like stiff chamois and could mistaken >> for very >> old road kill. >> >> Carolyn Reynard >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stu Schmitt" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:55 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about >> mountainleather... and looking for pictures. >> >> >>> Hi Kris, >>> >>> Rectorite is also called "Mountain Leather" when it dries. My >>> geologist >>> friend wrote this about that: >>> >>> "Now this Jeffrey Quarry Quartz grows in this "Rectorite" named >>> after a >>> lawyer that lived in Hot Springs, Arkansas. It is a jelly when in >>> the >> rock >>> fractures. The quartz grows in this jelly and that is why every >>> crystal >> is >>> double terminated, unless it grew on the sandstone. When you dig the >> quartz >>> out of the fractures, the rectorite hits the air and turns to what >>> is >> called >>> "Mountain Leather". It's some neat stuff and is a clay mineral. It >>> is >>> flexible just like leather. If you look at it close, you will >>> usually see >>> small double terminated quartz crystals." >>> >>> I have more information about the source on this web page: >>> http://arcrystalmine.com/crystals_results.php?category=17 >>> >>> If you would like a piece of it please contact me off line. >>> >>> With appreciation & gratitude, >>> Stuart Schmitt >>> Clear Creek Crystal Mine >>> www.arcrystalmine.com >>> 60 Mary's Eagle Trail >>> Mount Ida, AR 71957 >>> (870) 867-2443 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kris Rowe" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:02 PM >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] "D'ever Wonder?" - Wondering about mountain >> leather... >>> and looking for pictures. >>> >>> >>>> Howdy, y'all! >>>> I was sitting (shivering) on the back porch last >>>> evening, reading a Lapidary Journal (from 1968, if I remember >> correctly) >>>> with a great article on 'Amethyst of Korea.' Amongst the many >>>> materials >>>> written of was something that was unfamiliar to me, called >>>> "mountain leather." >>>> So, lacking any underground (at least deeper than 8 feet) mining >>>> experience, >>>> I googled it and found "TEM observations of a 30 million >>>> year old mountain leather nanofiber mineral composite" on >> ScienceDirect. >>>> However, they want my money before letting me read the >>>> paper, and my Queen of Reciepts says "$31.50 for a research >>>> paper? for >>>> FUN?", at which point I slunk back to my Laz-e-Boy and >>>> decided to ask y'all ... what the heck IS mountain leather, what >>>> does >> it >>>> look like, and have any of you found any? >>>> >>>> The Intro to the research paper makes mountain leather sound like >>>> something >>>> Dupont wishes it would have made, and brought a smile >>>> to my face with the amazed comment that it was 30 million years >>>> old, >> the >>>> same wry smile I get when someone marvels at how amazing >>>> it is that Nature could create something so complex! *lol* >>>> Warning to you search wizards (like me) there's almost nothing >>>> readily >>>> available online about this material, other than the mentioned >>>> paper. >>>> So, dear miners with letters behind your names, help me if you >>>> can. I >>>> don't >>>> want to wake up at 4 am wondering about this question. My >>>> sanity is in your hands (sorry it's so sticky, the kids were >>>> plaaying >> with >>>> it.) >>>> >>>> Be Well! >>>> Kris Rowe >>>> Lapidary Specialties >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jan 15 17:19:39 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jan 15 17:19:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (Glaciers) References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <9CA20866164B4AD5BF7614181D8E6C22@Goldstein> It seems to me that I read or was told that ice has to be 100 feet thick to move on its own accord as a glacier. So a mass of ice 75 feet thick will stay in place. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tuttle" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > Sorry, Al, as I explained to Carolyn in my post before yours, the weight > of > a cubic foot of WATER is about 62 lbs; but ICE, because of it's curious > physical properties, weighs less, *actually about 5 lbs less!* Yes, you > are > right, cubic foots of ice stacked up a mile high would make a mighty > skinny > glacier but at any given point on the bottom still exert over 151 tons of > pressure. That's enough weight to deeply score underlying bedrock as the > glacier flows, crush a bunch of SUVs or a whole pile of newborn baby > elephants! > > Another cautionary: No actual elephants were harmed in providing this > graphic example to you and Carolyn but I wouldn't mind seeing a Hummer or > two flattened to the thickness of a pancake. Carolyn's question is a > common > one on New York Earth Science tests, where students wonder how you could > pile up a mile high column of water one foot square, anyhow. Even stacking > up newborn baby elephants is difficult, which is why during the last Ice > Age, we used mastodons... > > Don Tuttle > Previously glaciated and now just snowed in in NY. > > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Al Balmer wrote: > >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" >> wrote: >> >> >To the list: >> > >> >How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one >> >mile >> high? >> About 62 pounds, but a cubic foot one mile high is going to be mighty >> thin. Did you meant a square foot in cross-section, one mile high? >> > >> >> -- >> Al Balmer >> Sun City, AZ >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jan 15 17:24:51 2009 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jan 15 17:24:43 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:19 PM To: everbeek@ptd.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > wrote: >> To the list: >> >> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile >> high? >> >> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >> >> Carolyn Reynard >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jan 15 17:47:51 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jan 15 17:47:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections References: Message-ID: Over the years I've picked up a few collections while working in the museum field. The Tharp collection ( obtained in the late 1980's) was not in immediate danger of being tossed, but was certainly unwanted. The small shotgun-type house (in a part of town I wouldn't want to visit after dark) had so many specimens in cabinets that floor jacks were used to keep them level. The rock & mineral collection came with 7 catalogues, lots of correspondence, old magazines, dealer catalogs, etc. dating back to the 1870's! It is in the Louisville Science Center collections. More recently I was called to salvage a collection in a dilapidated garage, condemned for demolition by the city. The collection was in about 50 WWII vintage army foot lockers, many rotted away. It was a disaster having been in the garage since at least the early 1960's when the collector passed away. It took two trips with a full-size pick up truck to bring it to the park. The bulk of the collection was given to teachers. Almost nothing was labeled. Over two years, I had two teacher workshops where a total of 48 teachers each took 100 specimens for their classroom use. (The workshop was called "Building A Classroom Geology Museum" or something to that effect. Finally, I had a small, nice, 200 pc. mineral collection donated as the owners were moving to Florida. Most (but not all) were labeled. As minerals are not a priority for the park collections, I'm finding a variety of ways to use them creatively. If everything was boxed, my current inventory of specimens in my cataloged collection and trade stock could fill a good-size moving van. I've been talking with Carolyn Daniels about the need for an article on making arrangements to dispose of your collection so your family won't have to make all of the decisions. Alan G. P.S. A little off-topic... Lately I've been salvaging material from the Ozark-Mahoning dump in Rosiclare, IL for the Falls Fossil Festival. It's nice to have access to a dual axis dump truck and know people who will fill it with their front end loader. It contains barite, calcite, fluorite and sphalerite from the Annabel Lee, Denton and Number 1 mines. It's amazing how 16 tons gets mined through over the festival weekend! So that material is spread among several thousand people now. Actually the pile is visited year round, though the best stuff is certainly picked through. I dump is large enough to last 100 Fossil Festivals, at least. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections >I shudder to think of all the collections thrown away by uncaring >relatives, > since just by myself I have seen it happen time and time again. > Overhearing > the grandkids plan on dismantling the 48 inch diamond saw with a crane > and > tossing it in the alley in Bakersfield....... finding a pile of saws, > polishing units, and tumblers sitting in the gutter in Reseda....... > meeting a young > guy whose neighbors' kids threw away a 40 foot dumpster of tools and > crystal/mineral collection in Big Bear (he rescued it all and made a tidy > profit)...... getting a late night phone call from someone I never met > asking me to > please empty a bedroom packed with display cases of material the next > morning > because they didn't have time to throw it all away "before the Realtor > gets > here" in Van Nuys. It's horrible. > > > In a message dated 1/14/2009 11:05:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > VevaBailey@aol.com writes: > > Hi all, > A friend of mine found a large beautiful piece of Lapis in the Carson > River > not far from my home. > Someone just dumped their collection back in the river. He found > petrified > wood too. > I really think it is a shame that we don't have more "kids" interested in > our "hobbies". > I am always telling my Grandkids, to "bring me ROCKS". If they look > pretty > or what send Rocks!! > > Veva Bailey > > > > > In a message dated 1/14/2009 10:41:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > tangojuli@yahoo.com writes: > > Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections > (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out > in > the desert > somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the middle of nowhere > onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just opened up the tailgate > and > > pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but it was like an archaeological > dig, > and > we learned a lot about the former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig > thru the historic bottle collection dating back to the 1890s and found > slabs > > with cab outlines someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality > peices > my friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful > geodes > and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the detritus > of a > > garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, a broom, old oil > cans, > etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, and very old pop bottle > collection. I found what turned out to be a nice > hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are > now > part of my historic junk collection. > The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, but > the > assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much of our > uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals as junk > to > be disposed > of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance has a list of a couple > people > to call in case of my demise to dispose of my collection. Hopefully they > will > remember where I've been, because I've been lazy in the last year or two > of > labelling stuff. (smile) > And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my > next > trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now a > shrine > to > collecting.... > ...tina > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 15 19:51:33 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 15 19:50:50 2009 Subject: Radioactives {was: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space} In-Reply-To: <5E6CC23AF084411CA1B6CA782E39B6C1@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: My wife was concerned enough about the number of radioactive specimens in my collection she bought me a radon test for my birthday last year. It was elevated 3% over background, but well below the threshold for concern. Some of the specimens are in my big cabinet by the front door, and the rest are in the basement. I've got primary ores, and lots of interesting secondary minerals (many of them glow under black light), softball sized chunks of Pitchblende from various mines, and golf ball sized chunks of Carnotite. Most of the secondary minerals are really pretty. I minimize handling them, and wash up immediately if I do handle them. The areas they are stored in get regular air flow (my boiler sucks air thru the basement and expels it out the chimney - the cracks around the front door vent the front hall). Radioactive minerals are safe to collect if you take reasonable (and mostly minimal) precautions. Storing them in your bedroom is just plain stupid. Please consider this to be a glowing report about the joys of collecting radioactive specimens. ;-} Kreigh On Thursday, Jan 15, 2009, at 17:54 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Indeed, Johan, what a memory! > Stockpiling radioactive material in ones bedroom is not really sane. > I wonder if Peter has any children? I also wonder what they would look > like... > Whomever shares his reactor room won't have trouble locating him in the > dark. > There's only little radioactive stuff in my collection and nothing like > primary uranium or thorium ore. A simple headcount suffices to make an > inventory of my family. ROFL. > The offspring of radon-breathing human subspecies may have more > intricate > forms, an extra head or two perhaps? > > Cheers > > Axel > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Johan Mineral Verizon >> Verzonden: woensdag 14 januari 2009 2:29 >> Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space >> >> Axel, what a memory. >> >> While in Denmark, I visited Peter's apartment with Kitty. >> It was a miracle we could get in his one bedroom apartment at all. >> Every square centimeter was filled with magazines, boxes, stuff. >> I have seen quite a few packrats, but never anything like this. >> My feet were to long to navigate the very narrow corridor he had >> built between his boxes. >> Of course there were a large quantity of radioactive minerals >> >> But Peter was very passionate about his hobby and he never saw his >> place as a storage mess. >> Aren't we all like that? >> >> >> Moving ... done this twice and I still have not unpacked boxes from >> twelve years ago. >> Every time I open one during our mineral pick-nick the oh and ahs >> from the attendees enlighten me. >> >> Remember guys: Beez, Mont-sur-Marchienne, Plombieres, Seilles, Cahay? >> >> Johan Maertens >> Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net >> calcite4ever at gmail dot com >> >> Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? >> Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at >> http://www.minerant.org >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at copper.net Thu Jan 15 19:54:06 2009 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jan 15 19:54:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c97655$0289e8e0$8fe7ce45@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <6310n45ob7cfv36g4dt811q7dfdqm85fci@4ax.com> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:03:51 -0500, Donald Tuttle wrote: >Sorry, Al, as I explained to Carolyn in my post before yours, the weight of >a cubic foot of WATER is about 62 lbs; but ICE, because of it's curious >physical properties, weighs less, *actually about 5 lbs less!* Well, it all depends on what about is about. (Hey, if it's good enough for Bill C, it's good enough for me.) You're right, of course, though I didn't know offhand what the difference in density is. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 15 20:18:30 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 15 20:17:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections In-Reply-To: <227464.3306.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, Jan 15, 2009, at 01:40 America/Detroit, tango juli wrote: > Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections > (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out > in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the > middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just > opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but > it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the > former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle > collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines > someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my > friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful > geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the > detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, > a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, > and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a > nice > hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are > now part of my historic junk collection. > The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, > but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much > of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals > as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance > has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose > of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, > because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. > (smile) > And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my > next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now > a shrine to collecting.... > ...tina > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 15 20:45:53 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 15 20:45:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disposing of collections In-Reply-To: <227464.3306.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8E689AC4-E388-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Conserving a collection includes the responsibility to dispose of it after your death. My Will instructs my heirs to take what they want from my collection, and how to dispose of the rest. As a systematic collector, with a fondness for Type Locality specimens, I think my collection has both scientific and monetary value. I hope I can leave a legacy to future collectors and researchers, and some cash for my heirs. Planning for the disposition of my collection only adds to the joy it gives me. Any significant collection is an investment in time and resources. Any investment should have a plan for capturing a profit. My plan is to pass the profit on to the future. Kreigh On Thursday, Jan 15, 2009, at 01:40 America/Detroit, tango juli wrote: > Axel commented on those who will have to dispose of our collections > (children usually, fire dept in other cases) in our wake. Recently out > in the desert somewhere, friends and I discovered a dump pile in the > middle of nowhere onprivate land to be developed soon. Someone just > opened up the tailgate and pressed eject. We totally enjoyed it, but > it was like an archaeological dig, and we learned a lot about the > former owner. My friends were thrilled to dig thru the historic bottle > collection dating back to the 1890s and found slabs with cab outlines > someone once planned to cut, jade, and other locality peices my > friends recognized with breathless excitement. We found beautiful > geodes and hunks of vivid chrysocolla that were dumped along with the > detritus of a garage--wheel ramps, an old push sweeper, a 70s bicycle, > a broom, old oil cans, etc. I found a collection of tabasco bottles, > and very old pop bottle collection. I found what turned out to be a > nice > hunk of turquoise. The 1950s coleman lamp and 1970s olive oil can are > now part of my historic junk collection. > The tin cooking utensils were mended by someone practically minded, > but the assemblage was a reminder that someday someone will see much > of our uncatelogued boxes and crates of unlabelled rocks and minerals > as junk to be disposed of (with the exception of Kreigh :). My fiance > has a list of a couple people to call in case of my demise to dispose > of my collection. Hopefully they will remember where I've been, > because I've been lazy in the last year or two of labelling stuff. > (smile) > And instead of reading email, playing with topo maps and planning my > next trip, maybe I need to be out cleaning out my garage which is now > a shrine to collecting.... > ...tina > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From hammerron at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 05:25:07 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Fri Jan 16 05:25:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] snow Message-ID: <124994.7972.qm@web83501.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Snow or ice is something that people often just don't think of as a mineral, but it is. Check out this interesting site: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 10:22:47 2009 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Jan 16 10:22:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Collecting Trip in New England: Boston Mineral Club Auction is Tomorrow Message-ID: For any of you who live in the New England Area please consider a trip to Needham, MA tomorrow to attend the annual Boston Mineral Club auction and party. A flyer with times and directions can be found on our club website at http://www.bostonmineralclub.org/docs/2009-Auction-flyer.pdf Last year we had about 200 flats of material in our silent auction plus about 150 items in our voice auction. Its a little cold and snow-covered right now (-2F at my house this morning) to get out and do some field collecting but our auction provides a chance to get some great specimens from many different New England and worldwide localities, usually at great prices. We even provide the refreshments during the day and end the event with a hot meal. It's a hard deal to beat. I hope to see some of you there! best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jan 16 11:46:45 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:46:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it has a little air in it. 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing air out. It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the store! Margaret Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. Bob Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl R. Verbeek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > Cheers- Earl > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > wrote: >> To the list: >> >> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile >> high? >> >> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >> >> Carolyn Reynard >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Jan 16 12:02:56 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:03:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Message-ID: Margaret- Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a solid that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together than they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially have small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the initial amount of water. No air is involved. In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense than liquid water. Cheers, Jim Murowchick On 1/16/09 1:46 PM, "Margaret Malm" wrote: > Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- > I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- > 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it has > a little air in it. > 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. > The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the > weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing air > out. > > It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the > store! > > Margaret > > > Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. > > Bob > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be > 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl R. Verbeek" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > >> A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to >> get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the >> weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the >> density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on >> temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" >> >> wrote: >>> To the list: >>> >>> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile >>> high? >>> >>> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >>> >>> Carolyn Reynard >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 12:19:51 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:19:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Message-ID: No, a little air in it may reduce the density but the reason it is less dense than water is that the structure of ice is less densely packed than water. Water achieves maximum density at 4 deg C before is freezes. This is extremely unusual behavior and is one major reason that life exists on the earth. If ice sank when it froze then lakes would freeze solid from the bottom up killing every critter in the water. Ice would sink to the bottom of oceans and accumalate down there too. BK On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 14:46, Margaret Malm wrote: > Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- > I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- > 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it > has > a little air in it. > 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. > The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the > weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing > air > out. > > It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the > store! > > Margaret > > > Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. > > Bob > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be > 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl R. Verbeek" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > > >A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to > > get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the > > weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the > > density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on > > temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" > > > > wrote: > >> To the list: > >> > >> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one > mile > >> high? > >> > >> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. > >> > >> Carolyn Reynard > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 16 12:18:26 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:21:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? References: Message-ID: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and rivers, there probably would be serious effects on our climate, aquatic life, and hydrologic circulation systems. On the other hand, if water did not expand when solid, I would not have had to call the plumber yesterday for my frozen pipes!! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Murowchick" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > Margaret- > Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water > transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a > solid > that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than > water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in > water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together > than > they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like > structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially > have > small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the > freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, > cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving > empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the > initial amount of water. No air is involved. > In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly > lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense > than > liquid water. > > Cheers, > Jim Murowchick > > > > On 1/16/09 1:46 PM, "Margaret Malm" wrote: > >> Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- >> I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- >> 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it >> has >> a little air in it. >> 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. >> The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the >> weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing >> air >> out. >> >> It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the >> store! >> >> Margaret >> >> >> Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. >> >> Bob >> >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >> >> Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be >> 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. >> >> Yours, >> Dora Smith >> Austin, TX >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Earl R. Verbeek" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >> >> >>> A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 >>> to >>> get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the >>> weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the >>> density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on >>> temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? >>> >>> Cheers- Earl >>> >>> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" >>> >>> wrote: >>>> To the list: >>>> >>>> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one >>>> mile >>>> high? >>>> >>>> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >>>> >>>> Carolyn Reynard >>>> >>>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>> multipart/alternative >>>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>>> text/html >>>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 16 13:00:05 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 13:00:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice sheet pressure & stuff) In-Reply-To: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Message-ID: <8CB46348A7008EB-FE0-B89@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> Everybody sure is having a good time writing & thinking about ice and glaciers and all... Now of course, ice is less dense than water not just because of air bubbles, but mainly because of it's more open crystal structure. And as to the matter of compressibility of the ice and whether its density is greater at high pressure at the bottom of the ice sheet than above, I think that, similar to the behavior of liquid water, the compressibility of ice is pretty small, and its increase in density for that reason is probably quite insignificant--the squeezing out and compression of air bubbles is probably a greater effect. But I think if one uses the standard ice density that Earl and others have already given, 0.92 g/cc, that is probably totally "close enough" for any of these approximate calculations.? For the whole ice column, any slight increase in density due to compression at the bottom end of the column, is probably offset by the porosity and lower density of the less compacted ice toward the top of the column. After all these posts, I just had to do my own calculation.? Instead of expressing things as "tons", one good way to illustrate it, to me, is to express the weight of the overlying ice in terms of atmospheric pressure.? Multiplying everything out and using the right units, I get that the pressure at the bottom of one mile of ice would be about 143 times atmospheric pressure, or if you like, 2100 psi.? (We'll just hope I did everything right--I won't show my work, so you can all take it?on faith that I did, or do the calculation yourself (a nasty bunch of conversion of units), or look it up (where?--I guess no one found that stated anywhere explicitly). And of course, the pressure would be about the same (well, actually it would be 1.03 / 0.92 = 1.12 as much) beneath an equal (1 mile) depth of sea water.? It's a lot of pressure--but hey, sea critters still live down there!? (since the water pressure inside & outside of their bodies is all equalized). And then, we can remember that beneath a mile of rocks instead of water or ice, the pressure would be about 3 times as great!? Poor little quartz grains, getting squooze all that much.? But again, if the deep sea critters don't mind, why should the rocks and sediments.? And the greatest depth within the ocean trenches, 35,840 feet = 6.79 miles, is therefore about 7 times as much as the pressure under that mile of ice that we have been talking about!? cheers to all, Pete (and P.S., to link to another topic on this list, all of these pressures, of course, are insignificant compared to the weight if you piled up all of the rocks in my garage, one on top of the other!? (speaking of collections management).)????????? :? ) -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Malm To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:46 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Question? Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it has a little air in it. 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing air out. It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the store! Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 13:19:04 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 16 13:19:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice sheet pressure & stuff) In-Reply-To: <8CB46348A7008EB-FE0-B89@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> <8CB46348A7008EB-FE0-B89@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ice has a lot of different phases, doesn't it Pete? As many as 15 or 16 different phases, probably not enough pressure to form them at a depth of 1 mile but Ice is complex. BK On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 16:00, wrote: > Everybody sure is having a good time writing & thinking about ice and > glaciers and all... > > Now of course, ice is less dense than water not just because of air > bubbles, but mainly because of it's more open crystal structure. > > And as to the matter of compressibility of the ice and whether its density > is greater at high pressure at the bottom of the ice sheet than above, I > think that, similar to the behavior of liquid water, the compressibility of > ice is pretty small, and its increase in density for that reason is probably > quite insignificant--the squeezing out and compression of air bubbles is > probably a greater effect. But I think if one uses the standard ice density > that Earl and others have already given, 0.92 g/cc, that is probably totally > "close enough" for any of these approximate calculations.? For the whole ice > column, any slight increase in density due to compression at the bottom end > of the column, is probably offset by the porosity and lower density of the > less compacted ice toward the top of the column. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Jan 16 13:35:43 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 16 13:35:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that > water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than > as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and > rivers,.... ...and glasses of cool beverages! Aloha, Kitty From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 16 13:54:04 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 13:54:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice sheet pressure & stuff) In-Reply-To: References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com><5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok><8CB46348A7008EB-FE0-B89@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB463C158C2ADB-1730-290@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> Yes, good point, and I just checked, the other crystalline forms of ice become stable at pressures a little over?200 MPa (mega-pascals) which is equal to approx. 2000 atmospheres, so that's much more than the pressure we are talking about for the base of a one mile ice sheet (143 atmospheres). Which brings to mind one other thing I don't recall if anyone has mentioned, that since the temperature of the ice/water transition decreases with increasing pressure (I think I said that right), glaciologists believe that there is often a basal layer of water at the bottom of thick ice sheets.? (Plus there is the effect of heat flow from the earth's interior warming the base of the ice sheet.) And one last comment--just about physics terminology--as you'll see, I had to quote pressure in megapascals up above, because that's the way things are given; pascals are the "official" standard international unit of pressure now used in the scientific literature.? And the bottom line is, I HATE THOSE STUPID UNITS WITH A PASSION!? In the good old days, when I worked on high pressure experimentation at Penn State, we reported high pressure in kilobars; 1 kilobar (kb or kbar) = 1000 bars = 1000 atmospheres; that was a good, handy unit that anyone can relate to.? For example, diamond within the earth becomes stable at a pressure of around 50 kilobars (50,000 atm), which is equivalent to a depth of about 150 km.? Anyone can remember that.? But the pascal (1 pascal = 1 N/m2 = 1 newton per meter squared meter = 1 kilogram per meter squared per second squared) is a teeny tiny unit, so that one atmosphere = 101,325 Pa (101.325 KPa), and 50 kilobars = 5005 MPa (megapascals) = 5.005 GPa (gigapascals).? Who can relate to those, I ask you?? It's like measuring the size of every mineral specimen in nanometers.? There you go. cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 2:19 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice sheet pressure & stuff) Ice has a lot of different phases, doesn't it Pete? As many as 15 or 16 different phases, probably not enough pressure to form them at a depth of 1 mile but Ice is complex. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From LIpumpkin at msn.com Fri Jan 16 14:00:57 2009 From: LIpumpkin at msn.com (GLENN ANDREWS) Date: Fri Jan 16 14:01:00 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> <4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> <4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: I can't believe no one's mentioned HEAVY water yet...deuterium... ----- Original Message ----- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? Lawrence Rush wrote: > Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that > water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than > as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and > rivers,.... ...and glasses of cool beverages! Aloha, Kitty -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jan 16 14:24:32 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jan 16 14:25:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Isn't most glacial ice formed from snow? How does this fit into the equation? (he asks as he melts snow on the wood stove at a snow-to-water ratio of somewhere between 8-13:1 to wash dishes because the damned pump has been frozen for 5 weeks). John Santa, Idaho From everbeek at ptd.net Fri Jan 16 15:10:52 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:10:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] =?UTF-8?Q?Question=3F=20=28ice=20sheet=20pressure=20=26?= =?UTF-8?Q?=20stuff=29?= In-Reply-To: <8CB463C158C2ADB-1730-290@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com><5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok><8CB46348A7008EB-FE0-B89@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> <8CB463C158C2ADB-1730-290@WEBMAIL-MZ02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <41f9cfb9206c7db070f2ee010e7862d3@ptd.net> Ohhhh Pete did you ever strike a nerve! I agree wholeheartedly with your detestation (if that's a word) of pascals instead of kilobars. I still think in terms of kilobars and can relate to that unit quite easily when I think about depths within the Earth, but pascals, I'm lost. For similar reasons I don't like Hertz either (guess we're showing our age....). Cheers! Earl On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:54:04 -0500, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > And one last comment--just about physics terminology--as you'll see, I had > to quote pressure in megapascals up above, because that's the way things > are given; pascals are the "official" standard international unit of > pressure now used in the scientific literature.? And the bottom line is, I > HATE THOSE STUPID UNITS WITH A PASSION! From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 15:11:22 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:11:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Our latest eBay Auctions, and links to our sites Message-ID: <831c9ad10901161511m6d2ffa89u43b1bae104deddbc@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, y'all! Tired of being cooped up in the frozen wasteland? Too busy to make it to Tucson or Quartzite? Well, I have just the thing to lift your spirits and augment your collection! We're running 5, 3 and 1 day auctions featuring the best of our Searles Lake halite, with most featuring *free shipping worldwide! * To see our profile, feedback and find our auctions quickly, just click: eBay View About Me: Lapidary Specialties Also, I'm slowly but surely posting the best of my amateur halite photos, for those who'd like a closer view of the pieces we have up for auction. Go to: R & R Rockhound Our thanks to all of those who've viewed our wares, and especially those who bid and bought! FYI, I'm still working on the hanksite, seeking the perfect treatment that will minimize the inherent difficulties in displaying and storing this rare mineral. When I'm satisfied, I'll let everyone know how to best preserve hanksite, IMHO. Be Well, and keep on rockin'! Kris & Laura Lapidary Specialties Fresno, California, U.S.A. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 16 15:15:43 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:15:57 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at 4?C. If you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. At that temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: vrijdag 16 januari 2009 23:25 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > Isn't most glacial ice formed from snow? How does this fit into the > equation? (he asks as he melts snow on the wood stove at a snow-to-water > ratio of somewhere between 8-13:1 to wash dishes because the damned pump has > been frozen for 5 weeks). > > John > Santa, Idaho > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 16 15:32:45 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:33:00 2009 Subject: Radioactives {was: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space} In-Reply-To: References: <5E6CC23AF084411CA1B6CA782E39B6C1@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Well, Kreigh, most people get a little concerned when hey hear the words radioactive or uranium. There was an "open company day" a few years ago in Antwerp. People were asked for their input in building a science show for the visitors. I suggested to build a small cloud chamber to make particle emission visible. The safety board whipped the idea off the table because: 1) alcohol is flammable 2) dry ice is CO2 which can cause suffocation. 3) radioactive materials are strictly forbidden 4) they had no idea what they were saying or thinking They did however accept my alternative idea which involved having kids play with a high power short wave UV source. They didn't know what that was but the idea that it was powered by a 12 volt DC current must have been immensely reassuring. As usual people fear what they don't understand ;-))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: vrijdag 16 januari 2009 4:52 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Radioactives {was: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space} > > My wife was concerned enough about the number of radioactive specimens > in my collection she bought me a radon test for my birthday last year. > It was elevated 3% over background, but well below the threshold for > concern. > > Some of the specimens are in my big cabinet by the front door, and the > rest are in the basement. I've got primary ores, and lots of > interesting secondary minerals (many of them glow under black light), > softball sized chunks of Pitchblende from various mines, and golf ball > sized chunks of Carnotite. Most of the secondary minerals are really > pretty. > > I minimize handling them, and wash up immediately if I do handle them. > The areas they are stored in get regular air flow (my boiler sucks air > thru the basement and expels it out the chimney - the cracks around the > front door vent the front hall). > > Radioactive minerals are safe to collect if you take reasonable (and > mostly minimal) precautions. Storing them in your bedroom is just plain > stupid. > > Please consider this to be a glowing report about the joys of > collecting radioactive specimens. ;-} > > Kreigh > > > > > > > On Thursday, Jan 15, 2009, at 17:54 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Indeed, Johan, what a memory! > > Stockpiling radioactive material in ones bedroom is not really sane. > > I wonder if Peter has any children? I also wonder what they would look > > like... > > Whomever shares his reactor room won't have trouble locating him in the > > dark. > > There's only little radioactive stuff in my collection and nothing like > > primary uranium or thorium ore. A simple headcount suffices to make an > > inventory of my family. ROFL. > > The offspring of radon-breathing human subspecies may have more > > intricate > > forms, an extra head or two perhaps? > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > >> Namens Johan Mineral Verizon > >> Verzonden: woensdag 14 januari 2009 2:29 > >> Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space > >> > >> Axel, what a memory. > >> > >> While in Denmark, I visited Peter's apartment with Kitty. > >> It was a miracle we could get in his one bedroom apartment at all. > >> Every square centimeter was filled with magazines, boxes, stuff. > >> I have seen quite a few packrats, but never anything like this. > >> My feet were to long to navigate the very narrow corridor he had > >> built between his boxes. > >> Of course there were a large quantity of radioactive minerals > >> > >> But Peter was very passionate about his hobby and he never saw his > >> place as a storage mess. > >> Aren't we all like that? > >> > >> > >> Moving ... done this twice and I still have not unpacked boxes from > >> twelve years ago. > >> Every time I open one during our mineral pick-nick the oh and ahs > >> from the attendees enlighten me. > >> > >> Remember guys: Beez, Mont-sur-Marchienne, Plombieres, Seilles, Cahay? > >> > >> Johan Maertens > >> Mr dot Calcite at Verizon dot net > >> calcite4ever at gmail dot com > >> > >> Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > >> Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > >> http://www.minerant.org > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Jan 16 15:55:08 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:55:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hole in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <49711E5C.1080100@hawaiiantel.net> Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. Aloha, Kitty Axel Emmermann wrote: > Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at 4?C. If > you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. At that > temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > > There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > > Cheers > Axel > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jan 16 15:56:10 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jan 16 15:57:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <23E072B46B68445A9F34C57E48F7190C@Notebook> Liza Axel. Not Lisa. You getting gas in Belgium? (On topic!) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. From rpr at heidelberg.edu Fri Jan 16 16:38:35 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Fri Jan 16 16:38:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: But be strong, you're going to have to carry it home. Give me that light water any day! Pete Richards On Jan 16, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks > at 4?C. If > you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees > celcius. At that > temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > > There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > > Cheers > Axel > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens John Siebel >> Verzonden: vrijdag 16 januari 2009 23:25 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >> >> Isn't most glacial ice formed from snow? How does this fit into the >> equation? (he asks as he melts snow on the wood stove at a snow-to- >> water >> ratio of somewhere between 8-13:1 to wash dishes because the >> damned pump > has >> been frozen for 5 weeks). >> >> John >> Santa, Idaho >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 16 17:49:02 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 17:49:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) Message-ID: So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up the properties of heavy water (pure D2O). 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that D2O "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, if you drop a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be an interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I wonder, what's the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, I suspect it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been much good on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" song was just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must say that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in my mind was, I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' nuff, he did record it too. In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. Aloha, Kitty Axel Emmermann wrote: > Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at 4?C. If > you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. At that > temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > > There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > > Cheers > Axel > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 16 18:02:16 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 16 18:01:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You can buy heavy water for about a dollar a gram at http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm Kreigh On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 20:49 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up > the > properties of heavy water (pure D2O). > > 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) > 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) > > so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that > D2O > "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, > if you drop > a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be an > interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I > wonder, what's > the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, I > suspect > it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. > > Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been much > good > on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" > song was > just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must > say > that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in my > mind was, > I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' > nuff, > he did record it too. > > > In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: > > Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry > Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. > You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at >> 4?C. > If >> you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. >> At > that >> temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. >> >> There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. >> >> Cheers >> Axel >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 16 18:18:51 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 16 18:17:52 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2E3315AC-E43D-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> There is also semi-heavy water, DHO, which makes ice that floats. And then we get into the radioactive Tritium, which makes really heavy water, with a molar mass of 22.0315. I was unable to find a supplier of Tritiated water. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 20:49 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up > the > properties of heavy water (pure D2O). > > 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) > 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) > > so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that > D2O > "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, > if you drop > a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be an > interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I > wonder, what's > the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, I > suspect > it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. > > Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been much > good > on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" > song was > just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must > say > that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in my > mind was, > I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' > nuff, > he did record it too. > > > In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: > > Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry > Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. > You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at >> 4?C. > If >> you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. >> At > that >> temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. >> >> There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. >> >> Cheers >> Axel >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jan 16 18:32:23 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Jan 16 18:32:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49714337.5010207@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > You can buy heavy water for about a dollar a gram at > http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm > > Kreigh Kreigh and Pete (and all), I ordered some from them, to do some demos for students. I've ordered two bottles, and they were both sent in ordinary screw-top plastic bottles that leaked. At that price, I was a little ticked. I got an apology from the vendor but not a refund. If you plan to order some, it might be well worth your time, effort, and money to send them your own certified leakproof bottle (Nalgene sells them) and asking them to place your heavy water in it. Of course you'd want to call them and talk about it first... Don From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 16 19:07:34 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 19:07:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question - Heavy Water Message-ID: Kreigh, thanks for showing that link to United Nuclear, that is certainly a good source for purchasing chemicals (if I ever need to get anything); I guess I'd never looked at their catalog. And, browsing it, I read & remembered that, if ref. to comments on this topic, In a message dated 1/16/2009 2:36:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: Lawrence Rush wrote: > Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that > water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than > as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and > rivers,.... Well, the metal gallium isn't quite "a natural substance" since it doesn't occur naturally in the pure elemental form, but... "It also expands by over 3% when solidifying, so it should not be stored in glass or metal containers as they will break when the metal solidifies." Pete (I rather doubt that the entire universe, large and diverse as it may be, contains any planets with lakes of liquid gallium that are kept at near their freezing point. And if there were, doubt that there would be any life forms there who would care about whether the gallium crystals were sinking or floating.) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sjs132 at accesstoledo.com Fri Jan 16 20:14:48 2009 From: sjs132 at accesstoledo.com (Steve Shimatzki) Date: Fri Jan 16 20:14:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Saw Oil Cleaning... In-Reply-To: <200901170149.n0H1nWLU010154@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200901170149.n0H1nWLU010154@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20090116201450.C21A5EEB@dm37.mta.everyone.net> Recent threads of Ice / Snow / Water / Cold got me to thinking about reminding everyone with a rock saw of a simple way to clean out the sludge from the used saw oil in the winter. I guess the general idea is to pour your contaminated oil into a bucket that has ample room and some excess. Add about 2 gallons of water. Cover it and put it out in the snow for a few days to freeze the water. The principal is that the oil would be lighter than the water and the water would freeze below the oil. You could then Drain the oil back into your (cleaned up) saw or storage containers but the water and rock sludge would be trapped in the ICE if it froze completely through. Remove the ICE to a separate container to dispose of properly when it melts. Now, I don't remember where I read it, I'm sure it was 60's or 70's Lapidary Journal (Yah, before they found out about beads and PMC) and I think it was a hint from someone in Minnesota. But It should work for me here in Toledo. Your Mileage may vary depending on your climate and type of saw lubricant. So unless you have access to a LARGE freezer, I don't think this will work for most folks in the warmer climates. ;) -Steve Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com Toledo Gem and Rockhound Club http://www.rockyreader.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 16 20:27:45 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 16 20:26:46 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question - Heavy Water In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <30616594-E44F-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, Skylighter has a much broader selection of chemicals, but United Nuclear has a more interesting selection. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 22:07 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Kreigh, thanks for showing that link to United Nuclear, that is > certainly a > good source for purchasing chemicals (if I ever need to get anything); > I guess > I'd never looked at their catalog. And, browsing it, I read & > remembered > that, if ref. to comments on this topic, > > In a message dated 1/16/2009 2:36:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: > Lawrence Rush wrote: >> Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that >> water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than >> as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and >> rivers,.... > > Well, the metal gallium isn't quite "a natural substance" since it > doesn't > occur naturally in the pure elemental form, but... > > "It also expands by over 3% when solidifying, so it should not be > stored in > glass or metal containers as they will break when the metal > solidifies." > > Pete > > (I rather doubt that the entire universe, large and diverse as it may > be, > contains any planets with lakes of liquid gallium that are kept at > near their > freezing point. And if there were, doubt that there would be any > life forms > there who would care about whether the gallium crystals were sinking > or > floating.) > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 21:18:03 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri Jan 16 21:18:05 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? Frozen pipes and Frozen Polarity In-Reply-To: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush> Message-ID: <397032.91697.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Twas quoted: On the other hand, if water did not expand when solid, I would not have had to call the plumber yesterday for my frozen pipes.. I was taught that the expansion of water/ice at 4degrees was owing to a locking of the tri-polar magnetic poles of the water molecule at a termperature where the alignment of molecules was governed by magnitism under reduced thermal vibration. In the what it is worth column, frozen water is but one components in the conditions which cause broken pipes. While ice stops expansion in the vic of 4degrees F, metals and plastics continue to contract with the drop in temperature. This is why you can have pipe restricting, fully frozen, ice and not have broken pipes. When the temperature reaches the limit of elasticity the pipe will rupture. I believe the temperature is around 25 degrees F(??) that the elasticity of copper can no longer contain the diameter of ice within the tube. IIRC 1/2" does not rutpture as fast as 3/4" because the 1/2 wall has more thickness/diameter ratio ergo there is a greater amount of copper to strech over a a given diameter of ice. Eman From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 17 03:21:00 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 03:21:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hole in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <49711E5C.1080100@hawaiiantel.net> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net> <33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> <49711E5C.1080100@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <6926001229F64E88B60821028772060D@AXELDESKTOP> The "pauze" in that song before the last refrain is my favourite part. I was 8 years old at the time and my mother had to explain the lyrics to me but I remember that I laughed MAO. Cheers Axe (MAO, remember?) > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: zaterdag 17 januari 2009 0:55 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Hole in the Bucket (OT) > > Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry > Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. > You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at 4?C. If > > you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. At that > > temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > > > > There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 17 03:26:22 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 03:26:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <23E072B46B68445A9F34C57E48F7190C@Notebook> References: <28EB60D3E591438A82D07AD848CC20A3@LarryRush><4970FDAF.1030906@hawaiiantel.net><33A38621050F455A99F9A986C875D5F9@AXELDESKTOP> <23E072B46B68445A9F34C57E48F7190C@Notebook> Message-ID: Yes we do. But parts of the country are without drinking water. We had a cold spell like one that can be expected once in a decade. We, in the north of Belgium have everything we need. The south part of the country has been hit somewhat harder. But hey, trains run late here when the weatherman says it MIGHT rain ;-))) BTW: every one is complaining about being snowed in and frozen out... half the messages are about ICE. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: zaterdag 17 januari 2009 0:56 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > Liza Axel. Not Lisa. > > You getting gas in Belgium? (On topic!) > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 17 03:30:19 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 03:30:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And alcohol and acetic acid and lots more chemicals with H replaced by D. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: zaterdag 17 januari 2009 3:02 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) > > You can buy heavy water for about a dollar a gram at > http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm > > Kreigh > > > > On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 20:49 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com > wrote: > > > So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up > > the > > properties of heavy water (pure D2O). > > > > 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) > > 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) > > > > so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that > > D2O > > "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, > > if you drop > > a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be an > > interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I > > wonder, what's > > the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, I > > suspect > > it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. > > > > Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been much > > good > > on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" > > song was > > just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must > > say > > that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in my > > mind was, > > I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' > > nuff, > > he did record it too. > > > > > > In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: > > > > Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry > > Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. > > You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at > >> 4?C. > > If > >> you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. > >> At > > that > >> temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > >> > >> There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Axel > >> > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > > easy > > steps! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > > cemailfooterNO62) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 17 03:32:39 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 17 03:33:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <2E3315AC-E43D-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <2E3315AC-E43D-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <29717DBC55F242FE912081ED16B4C3AD@AXELDESKTOP> Because of the shorter half life of 12.3 years? It is highly radioactive! Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski > Verzonden: zaterdag 17 januari 2009 3:19 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) > > There is also semi-heavy water, DHO, which makes ice that floats. > > And then we get into the radioactive Tritium, which makes really heavy > water, with a molar mass of 22.0315. I was unable to find a supplier of > Tritiated water. > > Kreigh > > > > > On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 20:49 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com > wrote: > > > So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up > > the > > properties of heavy water (pure D2O). > > > > 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) > > 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) > > > > so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that > > D2O > > "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, > > if you drop > > a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be an > > interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I > > wonder, what's > > the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, I > > suspect > > it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. > > > > Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been much > > good > > on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" > > song was > > just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must > > say > > that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in my > > mind was, > > I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' > > nuff, > > he did record it too. > > > > > > In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: > > > > Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry > > Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. > > You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. > > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks at > >> 4?C. > > If > >> you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees celcius. > >> At > > that > >> temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. > >> > >> There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Axel > >> > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > > easy > > steps! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > > cemailfooterNO62) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Jan 17 05:53:59 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Jan 17 05:54:05 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) Message-ID: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Don, Just curious. What would you do in the demos with the heavy water? -Ron ________________________________ From: DonH To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:32:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > You can buy heavy water for about a dollar a gram at > http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm > > Kreigh Kreigh and Pete (and all), I ordered some from them, to do some demos for students. I've ordered two bottles, and they were both sent in ordinary screw-top plastic bottles that leaked. At that price, I was a little ticked. I got an apology from the vendor but not a refund. If you plan to order some, it might be well worth your time, effort, and money to send them your own certified leakproof bottle (Nalgene sells them) and asking them to place your heavy water in it. Of course you'd want to call them and talk about it first... Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 06:13:23 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 17 06:13:24 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question - Heavy Water In-Reply-To: <30616594-E44F-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <30616594-E44F-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: The company many chemists use is Sigma-Aldrich and they stock Deuterium Oxide 99.98% for about $4/gram. Any major Scientific supplier is likely to have it, Fisher, VWR and Baker among others. < http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/Lookup.do?N5=Keyword%20(fulltext)&N3=matchpartialmax&N4=deuterium&D7=0&D10=deuterium&N25=0&N1=S_ID&ST=RS&F=PR > BK On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 23:27, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Pete, > > Skylighter has a much broader selection of chemicals, but United Nuclear > has a more interesting selection. > > Kreigh > > > On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 22:07 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.comwrote: > > Kreigh, thanks for showing that link to United Nuclear, that is certainly >> a >> good source for purchasing chemicals (if I ever need to get anything); I >> guess >> I'd never looked at their catalog. And, browsing it, I read & >> remembered >> that, if ref. to comments on this topic, >> >> In a message dated 1/16/2009 2:36:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >> kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: >> Lawrence Rush wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Jim, for a logical explanation! And it's a good thing that >>> water is the only natural substance that is less dense as a solid than >>> as a liquid.........if ice sank to the bottom of lakes, ponds, and >>> rivers,.... >>> >> >> Well, the metal gallium isn't quite "a natural substance" since it doesn't >> occur naturally in the pure elemental form, but... >> >> "It also expands by over 3% when solidifying, so it should not be stored >> in >> glass or metal containers as they will break when the metal solidifies." >> >> Pete >> >> (I rather doubt that the entire universe, large and diverse as it may be, >> contains any planets with lakes of liquid gallium that are kept at near >> their >> freezing point. And if there were, doubt that there would be any life >> forms >> there who would care about whether the gallium crystals were sinking or >> floating.) >> >> >> >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 >> easy >> steps! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir= >> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ >> default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De >> cemailfooterNO62) >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cornish at tfon.com Sat Jan 17 07:14:53 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:16:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation Message-ID: <9A471431CA8C4DDF8A959BAD21FD05D3@D1Y2LBC1> TUCSON 2009 Hi Everyone, Just a quick note, an invitation actually. I'll soon be out the door and would like to invite all of you to come visit as I participate in this year's spectacular Tucson Show. From January 24th - February 15th, I'll be in my room, number 186, at the Inn Suites. This year, it is my privilege to offer a wonderful selection of US and World specimens. I'll have a stellar selection of our Rat's Nest Mine, Heulandite and Mordenite's, including one of the finest Mordenite specimens I've yet recovered and offered for sale. After many requests, I'll have a massive selection of Wholesale Flats available too. Also featured this year is a wonderful grouping of World Class Natrolite and Apophyllite specimens from the Weyerhaeuser Lincoln Creek quarry here in Washington State. This material was featured in a Rocks & Minerals magazine article ( http://www.rocksandminerals.org/Back%20Issues/1998/rm7304.html ). This is the finest selection of these exceptional specimens ever offered outside of the northwest and represents material personally collected and specimens collected by Rudy Tschernich (Tschernichite, Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals curator and author of Zeolites of the World). Sparkling plates up to 1 foot long will be available! For those wanting something completely new, I'll have a generous selection of gold specimens from a new discovery in Mexico also! Additionally, I'll be offering a well stocked selection of High Pressure Water Cleaning Guns for specimen cleaning and the Ezebreak Micro-Blaster for rock demolition ( http://www.ezebreak.com ). This is going to be an incredible show and I can hardly wait! I'll keep the display lights lit and will have a smile ready when you arrive! All the very best everyone, be safe in your travels! John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 17 07:30:46 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:31:06 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Saw Oil Cleaning... In-Reply-To: <20090116201450.C21A5EEB@dm37.mta.everyone.net> References: <200901170149.n0H1nWLU010154@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20090116201450.C21A5EEB@dm37.mta.everyone.net> Message-ID: <00e301c978b8$91f296c0$b5d7c440$@com> I don't think I said this the last time this subject came up, but it really helps to heat the sludge as hot as you can (without melting the container of course) to promote the separation of the oil from the solids. This applies to the "grocery bag" method of oil recovery as well (which, IMO, results in a much higher rate of recovery). In winter I sit my buckets in front of the shop heater for a few days first. In the summer I leave them out in the sun on the hottest days (around here that's >80F). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve Shimatzki Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:15 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Saw Oil Cleaning... Recent threads of Ice / Snow / Water / Cold got me to thinking about reminding everyone with a rock saw of a simple way to clean out the sludge from the used saw oil in the winter. I guess the general idea is to pour your contaminated oil into a bucket that has ample room and some excess. Add about 2 gallons of water. Cover it and put it out in the snow for a few days to freeze the water. The principal is that the oil would be lighter than the water and the water would freeze below the oil. You could then Drain the oil back into your (cleaned up) saw or storage containers but the water and rock sludge would be trapped in the ICE if it froze completely through. Remove the ICE to a separate container to dispose of properly when it melts. Now, I don't remember where I read it, I'm sure it was 60's or 70's Lapidary Journal (Yah, before they found out about beads and PMC) and I think it was a hint from someone in Minnesota. But It should work for me here in Toledo. Your Mileage may vary depending on your climate and type of saw lubricant. So unless you have access to a LARGE freezer, I don't think this will work for most folks in the warmer climates. ;) -Steve Stephen Shimatzki sjs132@accesstoledo.com Toledo Gem and Rockhound Club http://www.rockyreader.com -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 17 07:33:47 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:34:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: OreRockOn Pacific Northwest Lapidary & Knapping Materials Winter Sale In-Reply-To: <200712030811.lB38Bdpm027201@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <001601c83565$a5e95340$28fff604@TheBlackAdder> <069e01c8356b$3fdbee90$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <200712030811.lB38Bdpm027201@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00e401c978b8$fdb3bba0$f91b32e0$@com> OK it's winter, and I am in the shop most days, so I have decided to extend the Big Blowout Fall Sale on many of my Pacific NW lapidary and knapping materials. Selected rough and slabs are 10-75% off my regular prices now through spring, or when they sell out. When you order using the PayPal cart the regular price will come up; I will calculate your S&H charge and apply the difference between the regular & sale price to S&H. If the savings are greater than the S&H I will then refund you the difference. Click on any of the links below for more info and a list of materials. Some example sale items (sale price, regular price): Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com CD/DVD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 17 07:38:51 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:39:11 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: OreRockOn Pacific Northwest Lapidary & Knapping Materials Winter Sale In-Reply-To: <200712030811.lB38Bdpm027201@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <001601c83565$a5e95340$28fff604@TheBlackAdder> <069e01c8356b$3fdbee90$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <200712030811.lB38Bdpm027201@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00e801c978b9$b2dcd6b0$18968410$@com> OK it's winter, and I am in the shop most days, so I have decided to extend the Big Blowout Fall Sale on many of my Pacific NW lapidary and knapping materials. Selected rough and slabs are 10-75% off my regular prices now through spring, or when they sell out. When you order using the PayPal cart the regular price will come up; I will calculate your S&H charge and apply the difference between the regular & sale price to S&H. If the savings are greater than the S&H I will then refund you the difference. Click on any of the links below for more info and a list of materials. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com CD/DVD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jan 17 07:40:28 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:40:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Message-ID: <219D961F39004427B9985AEA96232778@kadok> That is really interesting! You mean, there is no air in the cages? There is usually air in water, though. Unless it has been sitting very still for some time. Thanx! Margaret Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >Margaret- > Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water >transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a >solid >that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than >water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in >water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together than >they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like >structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially have >small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the >freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, >cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving >empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the >initial amount of water. No air is involved. >In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly >lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense >than liquid water. Cheers, Jim Murowchick On 1/16/09 1:46 PM, "Margaret Malm" wrote: > Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- > I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- > 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it has > a little air in it. > 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. > The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the > weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing air > out. > > It's great in your ice chest; lasts much longer than ice you get in the > store! > > Margaret > > > Ummm... 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 would be a cubic mile. > > Bob > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > Now, wait - that's 5,280 feet in each of three dimensions. It should be > 5,280 x 5,280 x 5,280 x 62.4. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl R. Verbeek" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > >> A cubic foot of water weighs about 62.4 pounds. Multiply that by 0.92 to >> get the weight of a cubic foot of ice, then multiply by 5,280 to get the >> weight of a mile of ice. That's only an approximation, though -- the >> density of glacial ice depends on its content of air and also on >> temperature. How accurate do you need the answer to be? >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:33:04 -0500, "Carolyn Reynard" >> >> wrote: >>> To the list: >>> >>> How does one find out the weight of a cubic foot of glacial ice one mile >>> high? >>> >>> I have been searching glaciers but have not found the answer. >>> >>> Carolyn Reynard >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Sat Jan 17 07:41:01 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:41:08 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation Message-ID: I'll be looking forward to visiting you in your room in Tucson, John! Wishing you safe travels to there. And to all on the list (If I haven't already posted to say this), if you are in Tucson and come to the main show, I hope you will drop by and try to say hello to me (or my colleagues) at our USGS booth, which will be upstairs in the "Galleria", the entrance area where you purchase tickets for the show. I'll also be giving one of the talks at the annual FM-TGMS-MSA mineral symposium held there Saturday morning (Feb. 14), on the show theme of Mineral Oddities; my own talk (not sure what time yet--the short symposium, I believe just four 30-minute presentations, will be from 10 a.m. to noon that Saturday) will be on "The curious nature and origin of agate, chalcedony, and opal". Best wishes to all, Pete Modreski In a message dated 1/17/2009 8:17:37 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, cornish@tfon.com writes: TUCSON 2009 Hi Everyone, Just a quick note, an invitation actually. I'll soon be out the door and would like to invite all of you to come visit as I participate in this year's spectacular Tucson Show. From January 24th - February 15th, I'll be in my room, number 186, at the Inn Suites. This year, it is my privilege to offer a wonderful selection of US and World specimens. I'll have a stellar selection of our Rat's Nest Mine, Heulandite and Mordenite's, including one of the finest Mordenite specimens I've yet recovered and offered for sale. After many requests, I'll have a massive selection of Wholesale Flats available too. Also featured this year is a wonderful grouping of World Class Natrolite and Apophyllite specimens from the Weyerhaeuser Lincoln Creek quarry here in Washington State. This material was featured in a Rocks & Minerals magazine article ( http://www.rocksandminerals.org/Back%20Issues/1998/rm7304.html ). This is the finest selection of these exceptional specimens ever offered outside of the northwest and represents material personally collected and specimens collected by Rudy Tschernich (Tschernichite, Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals curator and author of Zeolites of the World). Sparkling plates up to 1 foot long will be available! For those wanting something completely new, I'll have a generous selection of gold specimens from a new discovery in Mexico also! Additionally, I'll be offering a well stocked selection of High Pressure Water Cleaning Guns for specimen cleaning and the Ezebreak Micro-Blaster for rock demolition ( http://www.ezebreak.com ). This is going to be an incredible show and I can hardly wait! I'll keep the display lights lit and will have a smile ready when you arrive! All the very best everyone, be safe in your travels! John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 17 07:49:22 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:49:42 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorry :( In-Reply-To: <00e401c978b8$fdb3bba0$f91b32e0$@com> References: <001601c83565$a5e95340$28fff604@TheBlackAdder> <069e01c8356b$3fdbee90$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <200712030811.lB38Bdpm027201@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00e401c978b8$fdb3bba0$f91b32e0$@com> Message-ID: <00ea01c978bb$2aa45500$7fecff00$@com> I apologize for the double post. I hate Outlook! From Pmodreski at aol.com Sat Jan 17 07:55:34 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 17 07:55:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? Message-ID: Hi Margaret, "At equilibrium", liquids can contain a larger amount of dissolved gases than solids can. Liquid water will always contain a certain amount of dissolved atmospheric gases--the amount becomes less, the higher the temperature. But ice, a crystalline solid, cannot accommodate those gas molecules in its crystal structure, the way they can be accommodated in a disordered, free-moving liquid solution; that's why, when you freeze water in an ice cube tray, the ice cubes tend to contain bubbles in their centers, where the air that had been dissolved in the water separates to form air bubbles in the ice. Ice that forms from freezing of liquid water would contain bubbles for this reason, whereas ice formed by compaction of snowfall, contains air bubbles simply due to the entrapment of air caught within the porous mass of snowflakes. The "cages" between interlinked water molecules in ice are very small, and aren't really large enough to contain and trap air molecules; whereas for example in the zeolite minerals, where we also speak of cage structures, the "cages" and "tunnels" are formed by much larger rings of multiple ions in the structure, so these much larger open spaces can readily contain large ions or gas molecules, and allow them to become trapped in or move (diffuse) through the structure. Pete In a message dated 1/17/2009 8:40:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, kadok@infowest.com writes: That is really interesting! You mean, there is no air in the cages? There is usually air in water, though. Unless it has been sitting very still for some time. Thanx! Margaret Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? >Margaret- > Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water >transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a >solid >that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than >water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in >water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together than >they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like >structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially have >small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the >freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, >cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving >empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the >initial amount of water. No air is involved. >In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly >lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense >than liquid water. Cheers, Jim Murowchick tml **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From brenick at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 08:02:29 2009 From: brenick at gmail.com (Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Sat Jan 17 08:02:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Saw Oil Cleaning... In-Reply-To: <00e301c978b8$91f296c0$b5d7c440$@com> References: <200901170149.n0H1nWLU010154@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20090116201450.C21A5EEB@dm37.mta.everyone.net> <00e301c978b8$91f296c0$b5d7c440$@com> Message-ID: <97175ae90901170802o58b05414p160e53f19b765501@mail.gmail.com> so...you would heat the oil/sludge bucket, and then pour the water in the bucket? and then freeze? would you try to minimize or maximize the water agitating the sludge? Nick & Brenda On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Tim wrote: > I don't think I said this the last time this subject came up, but it really > helps to heat the sludge as hot as you can (without melting the container > of > course) to promote the separation of the oil from the solids. This applies > to the "grocery bag" method of oil recovery as well (which, IMO, results in > a much higher rate of recovery). In winter I sit my buckets in front of the > shop heater for a few days first. In the summer I leave them out in the sun > on the hottest days (around here that's >80F). > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve Shimatzki > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:15 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Winter Saw Oil Cleaning... > > Recent threads of Ice / Snow / Water / Cold got me to thinking about > reminding everyone with a rock saw of a simple way to clean out the > sludge from the used saw oil in the winter. > > I guess the general idea is to pour your contaminated oil into a > bucket that has ample room and some excess. Add about 2 gallons of > water. Cover it and put it out in the snow for a few days to freeze > the water. The principal is that the oil would be lighter than the > water and the water would freeze below the oil. You could then Drain > the oil back into your (cleaned up) saw or storage containers but the > water and rock sludge would be trapped in the ICE if it froze > completely through. Remove the ICE to a separate container to > dispose of properly when it melts. > > Now, I don't remember where I read it, I'm sure it was 60's or 70's > Lapidary Journal (Yah, before they found out about beads and PMC) and > I think it was a hint from someone in Minnesota. But It should work > for me here in Toledo. > > Your Mileage may vary depending on your climate and type of saw > lubricant. So unless you have access to a LARGE freezer, I don't > think this will work for most folks in the warmer climates. ;) > > -Steve > > > Stephen Shimatzki > sjs132@accesstoledo.com > Toledo Gem and Rockhound Club > http://www.rockyreader.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Brenda Van Dyke, Editor Arrowhead News Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club Wyoming, Michigan www.indianmoundsrockclub.com brenick@gmail.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Sat Jan 17 08:47:53 2009 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Sat Jan 17 08:47:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Margaret- I think Pete covered what I was going to say. Yes, there's usually dissolved gases in water, but they are excluded from the ice structure when it forms. A similar thing happens with salts when sea ice forms. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sea ice is essentially fresh water ice. There might be some sea water trapped as inclusions in the ice, but the salts aren't part of the the ice's structure. Doesn't zone refining (melting and recrystallizing soething like a boule of synthetic ruby) involve a similar mechanism--exclusion of impurities via repeated melting and recrystallization? jim On 1/17/09 9:55 AM, "Pmodreski@aol.com" wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > "At equilibrium", liquids can contain a larger amount of dissolved gases > than solids can. Liquid water will always contain a certain amount of > dissolved > atmospheric gases--the amount becomes less, the higher the temperature. But > ice, a crystalline solid, cannot accommodate those gas molecules in its > crystal structure, the way they can be accommodated in a disordered, > free-moving > liquid solution; that's why, when you freeze water in an ice cube tray, the > ice cubes tend to contain bubbles in their centers, where the air that had > been dissolved in the water separates to form air bubbles in the ice. Ice > that > forms from freezing of liquid water would contain bubbles for this reason, > whereas ice formed by compaction of snowfall, contains air bubbles simply due > to the entrapment of air caught within the porous mass of snowflakes. > > The "cages" between interlinked water molecules in ice are very small, and > aren't really large enough to contain and trap air molecules; whereas for > example in the zeolite minerals, where we also speak of cage structures, the > "cages" and "tunnels" are formed by much larger rings of multiple ions in the > structure, so these much larger open spaces can readily contain large ions or > gas molecules, and allow them to become trapped in or move (diffuse) through > the > structure. > > Pete > > > In a message dated 1/17/2009 8:40:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > kadok@infowest.com writes: > > > That is really interesting! You mean, there is no air in the cages? > There is usually air in water, though. Unless it has been sitting very still > for some time. > Thanx! > Margaret > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > >> Margaret- >> Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water >> transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a >> solid >> that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than >> water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in >> water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together than >> they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like >> structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially have >> small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the >> freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, >> cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving >> empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the >> initial amount of water. No air is involved. >> In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly >> lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense >> than liquid water. > > Cheers, > Jim Murowchick > > tml > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http: > //www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Jan 17 09:01:20 2009 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sat Jan 17 09:01:26 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c978c5$38ad9440$0600a8c0@LaptopLand1> Pete: Have a great time in Tucson! Any chance USGS will be offering video's of those talks you mentioned? Appreciatively, Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Pmodreski@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 10:41 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation I'll also be giving one of the talks at the annual FM-TGMS-MSA mineral symposium held there Saturday morning (Feb. 14), on the show theme of Mineral Oddities; my own talk (not sure what time yet--the short symposium, I believe just four 30-minute presentations, will be from 10 a.m. to noon that Saturday) will be on "The curious nature and origin of agate, chalcedony, and opal". Best wishes to all, Pete Modreski From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 17 09:01:36 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 17 09:01:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> The Hammer wrote: > Don, > > Just curious. What would you do in the demos with the heavy water? > 1. Fill a 5 mL beaker with each type, then put them on a balance, and watch the side with the d. water drop lower. Same volume, both water, but the d. water is denser because of the isotope. 2. Freeze some of it in a little plastic bag and watch it sink, vs. normal water in a plastic bag which will float. 3. I haven't done this yet, but put some in a liquid prism and observe the dispersion and refractive index vs. distilled water. That's about it, without going nuclear. However it might be possible to put a bottle of it between a low-level radioactive mineral and a geiger counter, vs. normal water, but it would take some experimentation to find a mineral that works well with this to the point you can detect the d. water shields better. Someone with a background in the specialty can probably do some calculations that will give a good first-order approximation of what it would take to make this a useful demonstration. That's an experiment for another day. From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 09:56:09 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 17 09:56:11 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> References: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> Message-ID: Does it? I would only expect to see a difference in neutron flux, but I could be wrong. Gamma shielding is usually high Z elements like Pb, neutron shielding is material with a lot of H in it since the masses are about the same. I guess deuterium must be a more effective fast neutron moderator since that is why is was valued so much. I doubt that you have a neutron detector on hand. BK That's about it, without going nuclear. However it might be possible to put > a bottle of it between a low-level radioactive mineral and a geiger counter, > vs. normal water, but it would take some experimentation to find a mineral > that works well with this to the point you can detect the d. water shields > better. Someone with a background in the specialty can probably do some > calculations that will give a good first-order approximation of what it > would take to make this a useful demonstration. That's an experiment for > another day. > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jan 17 09:59:42 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 17 09:59:52 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> References: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49721C8E.1070803@hawaiiantel.net> Very good, Don. Please post the results when you try demo 3, and that final experiment for another day. Thanks. Bill DonH wrote: > The Hammer wrote: > >> Don, >> >> Just curious. What would you do in the demos with the heavy water? >> > > > 1. Fill a 5 mL beaker with each type, then put them on a balance, and > watch the side with the d. water drop lower. Same volume, both water, > but the d. water is denser because of the isotope. > > 2. Freeze some of it in a little plastic bag and watch it sink, vs. > normal water in a plastic bag which will float. > > 3. I haven't done this yet, but put some in a liquid prism and > observe the dispersion and refractive index vs. distilled water. > > That's about it, without going nuclear. However it might be possible > to put a bottle of it between a low-level radioactive mineral and a > geiger counter, vs. normal water, but it would take some > experimentation to find a mineral that works well with this to the > point you can detect the d. water shields better. Someone with a > background in the specialty can probably do some calculations that > will give a good first-order approximation of what it would take to > make this a useful demonstration. That's an experiment for another day. > > > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 10:03:37 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 17 10:03:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yup that is called brining by the physical oceanographers and is in important effect. The salt forced out of the ice makes the surrounding water denser along with the fact that cold water is also denser. It is a major part of the reason why water sinks in the arctic ocean, the cold briny water sinks and then moves south; the sinking water generates a current that pulls warm surface water north and that of course gives you the Gulf Stream. BK On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 11:47, Jim Murowchick wrote: > Margaret- > I think Pete covered what I was going to say. Yes, there's usually > dissolved gases in water, but they are excluded from the ice structure when > it forms. A similar thing happens with salts when sea ice forms. Someone > correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sea ice is essentially fresh water > ice. > There might be some sea water trapped as inclusions in the ice, but the > salts aren't part of the the ice's structure. > Doesn't zone refining (melting and recrystallizing soething like a boule > of synthetic ruby) involve a similar mechanism--exclusion of impurities via > repeated melting and recrystallization? > > jim > > > On 1/17/09 9:55 AM, "Pmodreski@aol.com" wrote: > > > Hi Margaret, > > > > "At equilibrium", liquids can contain a larger amount of dissolved gases > > than solids can. Liquid water will always contain a certain amount of > > dissolved > > atmospheric gases--the amount becomes less, the higher the temperature. > But > > ice, a crystalline solid, cannot accommodate those gas molecules in its > > crystal structure, the way they can be accommodated in a disordered, > > free-moving > > liquid solution; that's why, when you freeze water in an ice cube tray, > the > > ice cubes tend to contain bubbles in their centers, where the air that > had > > been dissolved in the water separates to form air bubbles in the ice. > Ice > > that > > forms from freezing of liquid water would contain bubbles for this > reason, > > whereas ice formed by compaction of snowfall, contains air bubbles > simply due > > to the entrapment of air caught within the porous mass of snowflakes. > > > > The "cages" between interlinked water molecules in ice are very small, > and > > aren't really large enough to contain and trap air molecules; whereas for > > example in the zeolite minerals, where we also speak of cage structures, > the > > "cages" and "tunnels" are formed by much larger rings of multiple ions in > the > > structure, so these much larger open spaces can readily contain large > ions or > > gas molecules, and allow them to become trapped in or move (diffuse) > through > > the > > structure. > > > > Pete > > > > > > In a message dated 1/17/2009 8:40:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > kadok@infowest.com writes: > > > > > > That is really interesting! You mean, there is no air in the cages? > > There is usually air in water, though. Unless it has been sitting very > still > > for some time. > > Thanx! > > Margaret > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > > > >> Margaret- > >> Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water > >> transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a > >> solid > >> that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense > than > >> water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas > in > >> water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together > than > >> they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like > >> structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially > have > >> small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as > the > >> freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, > >> cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, > leaving > >> empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the > >> initial amount of water. No air is involved. > >> In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly > >> lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense > >> than liquid water. > > > > Cheers, > > Jim Murowchick > > > > tml > > > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > > steps! > > ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http > : > > // > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > > cemailfooterNO62) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 17 10:08:44 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 17 10:08:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <482381.20906.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <49720EF0.4070804@verizon.net> Message-ID: <49721EAC.6010607@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Does it? I would only expect to see a difference in neutron flux, but I > could be wrong. Gamma shielding is usually high Z elements like Pb, neutron > shielding is material with a lot of H in it since the masses are about the > same. I guess deuterium must be a more effective fast neutron moderator > since that is why is was valued so much. > > I doubt that you have a neutron detector on hand. Godo points on two counts: I was thinking of beta, not gamma; and this would require a thin-walled narrow container, since it is easy to stop beta particles in any case. That is what we would need to find out; would the difference be detectable? As far as the neutron moderation, oh yes I knew about that, and knew that wouldn't make an inexpensive classroom demonstration. I was definitely thinking of experimenting with the beta. Thanks, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 17 10:43:37 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 17 10:47:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: <29717DBC55F242FE912081ED16B4C3AD@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: And there is still a commercial market for it, estimated at about 450 grams annually. On Saturday, Jan 17, 2009, at 06:32 America/Detroit, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Because of the shorter half life of 12.3 years? It is highly > radioactive! > > Cheers > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >> Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >> Verzonden: zaterdag 17 januari 2009 3:19 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) >> >> There is also semi-heavy water, DHO, which makes ice that floats. >> >> And then we get into the radioactive Tritium, which makes really heavy >> water, with a molar mass of 22.0315. I was unable to find a supplier >> of >> Tritiated water. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> On Friday, Jan 16, 2009, at 20:49 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com >> wrote: >> >>> So, all this heavy water & light ice stuff, inspired me to go look up >>> the >>> properties of heavy water (pure D2O). >>> >>> 1.1056 g/mL, liquid (20?C) >>> 1.0177 g/cm3, solid (at m.p.) >>> >>> so, heavy water is about 10% denser than ordinary H2O, and I see that >>> D2O >>> "ice" (heavy ice?), at 1.0177 g/cc, is denser than liquid water; SO, >>> if you drop >>> a cube of D2O into ordinary water, it will sink! Wouldn't that be >>> an >>> interesting demonstration? (Probably a little expensive to do; I >>> wonder, what's >>> the market price of pure heavy water? Because of its nuclear uses, >>> I >>> suspect >>> it's a "controlled substance", except in very dilute form. >>> >>> Now for my OT P.S., to your Hole in the Bucket, I have never been >>> much >>> good >>> on any kind of pop music knowledge. To me, the "Hole in the Bucket" >>> song was >>> just something we sang as kids in music class at school. But I must >>> say >>> that the Harry B. rendition rang no bells for me; what did stick in >>> my >>> mind was, >>> I thought, Burl Ives singing it--so I looked that up online, and sho' >>> nuff, >>> he did record it too. >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 1/16/2009 4:55:34 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>> kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: >>> >>> Ahhh yes. "There's a Hole in the Bucket." The version with Harry >>> Belefonte as "Henry" and Odetta as "Liza" is my favorite, from 1960. >>> You can goodle or wikipedia it and get the full lyrics. >>> >>> Aloha, Kitty >>> >>> Axel Emmermann wrote: >>>> Ice is lighter than water but the specific gravity of water peaks >>>> at >>>> 4?C. >>> If >>>> you get a bucket of water then make sure it is at 4 degrees >>>> celcius. >>>> At >>> that >>>> temperature you'll get the most in your bucket. >>>> >>>> There's a hooooole in my bucket, dear Lisa. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Axel >>>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just >>> 2 >>> easy >>> steps! >>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ >>> aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ >>> default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De >>> cemailfooterNO62) >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Sat Jan 17 11:10:39 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 17 11:10:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation Message-ID: Ted, & the List, In a message dated 1/17/2009 10:01:50 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, Ted@crystalgems.com writes: Any chance USGS will be offering video's of those talks you mentioned? Appreciatively, Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA Well, since you wrote and asked, let me mention that, although as far as I know these talks in Tucson (I don't have the rest of that day's schedule yet, though they should soon be posted on the TGMS website) will not be recorded or made available online, however, I gave a talk at our USGS Western Region office in Menlo Park, CA last month, Dec. 18, as part of their monthly public lecture series. My talk was on "Gemstone Deposits of the U.S.", and (sharing this with some hesitation, as, when one looks at or listens to a recording of oneself speaking, it doesn't sound as "perfect" as one would like to imagine it to have been) anyone can view and listen to the entire slide show and lecture, even including the Q&A period, online via our USGS Western Region website: _http://online.wr.usgs.gov/calendar/_ (http://online.wr.usgs.gov/calendar/) just click on the link to play my presentation. As well, you'll see the announcement about their next scheduled talk, Jan. 29, EXPLORING MARS: Geology, Climate Change and Prospects for Past Life by Michael H. Carr, USGS Astrogeologist and to the whole 2008 schedule, which is all recorded and archived and available for anyone to view online (this is really a great resource for them to make available; there are some very good talks here). Sincerely, Pete **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 13:21:47 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Jan 17 13:21:49 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <29717DBC55F242FE912081ED16B4C3AD@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: Tritium is used to make glow-in-the-dark gun sights. It's also a major component in nuclear weapons and one reason that fusion bombs have a shelf life. BK On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 13:43, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > And there is still a commercial market for it, estimated at about 450 grams > annually. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 17 16:58:47 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 17 16:57:36 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Somewhat OT: Your rock collection may be a hologram Message-ID: <2973B35C-E4FB-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Many on this list are interested in the chemistry and science behind the rocks and minerals we collect. Many on this list are also interested in astronomy. I thought it might be interesting to combine the two interests and look at the fundamental building blocks of the universe, and thus the chemicals that make up our rock collections. So if you are interested in taking a quantum leap in understanding the chemistry behind your minerals, read on. Kreigh "Driving through the countryside south of Hanover, it would be easy to miss the GEO600 experiment. From the outside, it doesn't look much: in the corner of a field stands an assortment of boxy temporary buildings, from which two long trenches emerge, at a right angle to each other, covered with corrugated iron. Underneath the metal sheets, however, lies a detector that stretches for 600 metres. For the past seven years, this German set-up has been looking for gravitational waves - ripples in space-time thrown off by super-dense astronomical objects such as neutron stars and black holes. GEO600 has not detected any gravitational waves so far, but it might inadvertently have made the most important discovery in physics for half a century. For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein described and instead dissolves into "grains", just as a newspaper photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. "It looks like GEO600 is being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time," says Hogan." http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a- giant-hologram.html?full=true&print=true From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jan 17 17:54:15 2009 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jan 17 17:54:17 2009 Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW PETE!!! That is really a terrific presentation! I'm going to share the link with the Mobile Rock and Gem Society members. List members, the clip is 81 minutes of dynamite info. Do not miss this one! Glenn > From: Pmodreski@aol.com> > Ted, & the List,> > Ted@crystalgems.com writes:> > Any chance USGS will be offering video's of those talks you mentioned? > > > Well, since you wrote and asked, let me mention that, although as far as I > know these talks in Tucson (I don't have the rest of that day's schedule yet, > though they should soon be posted on the TGMS website) will not be recorded or > made available online, however, I gave a talk at our USGS Western Region > office in Menlo Park, CA last month, Dec. 18, as part of their monthly public > lecture series. My talk was on "Gemstone Deposits of the U.S.", and (sharing > this with some hesitation, as, when one looks at or listens to a recording of > oneself speaking, it doesn't sound as "perfect" as one would like to imagine > it to have been) anyone can view and listen to the entire slide show and > lecture, even including the Q&A period, online via our USGS Western Region > website:> http://online.wr.usgs.gov/calendar/ > just click on the link to play my presentation. As well, you'll see the > announcement about their next scheduled talk, Jan. 29, > > EXPLORING MARS: Geology,> Climate Change and Prospects for Past Life> by Michael H. Carr, USGS Astrogeologist> > and to the whole 2008 schedule, which is all recorded and archived and > available for anyone to view online (this is really a great resource for them to > make available; there are some very good talks here).> > Sincerely, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pttrefrn at triwest.net Sat Jan 17 19:55:18 2009 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron) Date: Sat Jan 17 19:55:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation References: Message-ID: <36DBF5D5BA354B77AAA0489F7DA6BC1E@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Thanks for posting this usgs address. I don't get to Tucson, but I listened to this lecture right away, and learned some things--Thanks Genn and Pete for sharing.also found the "Archives" at the USGS, and put a few more of those on my list of "preferred entertainments". This list is wonderfully filled with educational things--some of which I can't yet get as I ducked science as a kid, never knowing I needed it for rocks. But many of the wonderful sites and books you all share (as well as ways to do things) are really fascinating and helpful. Hurrah rockhounds at drizzle.com. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] Tucson Invitation > > > > WOW PETE!!! That is really a terrific presentation! I'm going to share the > link with the Mobile Rock and Gem Society members. List members, the clip > is 81 minutes of dynamite info. Do not miss this one! > Glenn > From: Pmodreski@aol.com> > Ted, & the List,> > > Ted@crystalgems.com writes:> > Any chance USGS will be offering video's of > those talks you mentioned? > > > Well, since you wrote and asked, let me > mention that, although as far as I > know these talks in Tucson (I don't > have the rest of that day's schedule yet, > though they should soon be > posted on the TGMS website) will not be recorded or > made available > online, however, I gave a talk at our USGS Western Region > office in > Menlo Park, CA last month, Dec. 18, as part of their monthly public > > lecture series. My talk was on "Gemstone Deposits of the U.S.", and > (sharing > this with some hesitation, as, when one looks at or listens to > a recording of > oneself speaking, it doesn't sound as "perfect" as one > would like to imagine > it to have been) anyone can view and listen to the > entire slide show and > lecture, even including the Q&A period, online via > our USGS Western Region > website:> http://online.wr.usgs.gov/calendar/ > > just click on the link to play my presentation. As well, you'll see the > > announcement about their next scheduled talk, Jan. 29, > > EXPLORING MARS: > Geology,> Climate Change and Prospects for Past Life> by Michael H. Carr, > USGS Astrogeologist> > and to the whole 2008 schedule, which is all > recorded and archived and > available for anyone to view online (this is > really a great resource for them to > make available; there are some very > good talks here).> > Sincerely, Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 20:13:01 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Jan 17 20:13:03 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Somewhat OT: Your rock collection may be a hologram In-Reply-To: <2973B35C-E4FB-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <2973B35C-E4FB-11DD-B5BA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901172013v24974c11k67a068836ce32310@mail.gmail.com> Fascinating stuff, Kreigh! I think that this one crosses a myriad of disciplinary boundaries: cosmology, astronomy, physics (and quantum physics), information technology ... those are just a few of the many that this would seem to hold deep implications for. F'rinstance, what if you could whip out your handy M-detector, determine the quantum vibrational signatures of the *unseen* rock 30 feet inside of the cliff you're standing in front of, including the type, habit, size of vug (if present) and just about any other information you might desire about its physical state? This isn't just big, it's monumental. This opens theoretical pathways galore. Starting on a macroscopic basis, I think it will be a startlingly short time until it's possible to apply the information gathering possibilities this presages to not only detect the exact vibrational frequency signatures of *any* thing at the string level, but ot effect and control those frequencies. That is, to make *anything*that can be physically made, if you command sufficient energy (or a cool sci-fi workaround.) Perhaps the coolest thing for we "rock people" would be the (very) theoretical ability to *cancel* the "strong & week" forces (known in sci-fi lore as "molar valence") in molecules, allowing us to not only *free*mineral specimens without heavy machinery or explosives, but to (theoretically, again) levitate said 20 ton specimen into our "flying pickup" and take it home. Oh, and did I mention that you won't have to worry about what highway you take, since you'll work by the coordinates of the long range detection you carried out with your Apple computer, sitting in your Lay-z-Boy? Some people would find the idea of knowing *everything* to be absoloutely terrifying. I, however, look st the fact that the "skull full of mush" that I wear can't possibly be large enough to hold all that knowledge, unless my theory of "quantum consciousness" is correct, and our bodies are simply tranceivers that act as interfaces between the reality we live in and the dimension where our consciousness actually resides. What we're seeing is the slow march to realizing the technology that we've all dreamt of as children, to be able to see anything, and know everything. If thiis possibility scares you, just imagine what the Luddites who wish us to follow their "prophets" back to the 7th century will feel. Oh, and BTW, this tech would almost certainly make their nukes obsolete. Again, thanks for the mind candy! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Many on this list are interested in the chemistry and science behind the > rocks and minerals we collect. Many on this list are also interested in > astronomy. I thought it might be interesting to combine the two interests > and look at the fundamental building blocks of the universe, and thus the > chemicals that make up our rock collections. So if you are interested in > taking a quantum leap in understanding the chemistry behind your minerals, > read on. > > Kreigh > > > "Driving through the countryside south of Hanover, it would be easy to miss > the GEO600 experiment. From the outside, it doesn't look much: in the corner > of a field stands an assortment of boxy temporary buildings, from which two > long trenches emerge, at a right angle to each other, covered with > corrugated iron. Underneath the metal sheets, however, lies a detector that > stretches for 600 metres. > > For the past seven years, this German set-up has been looking for > gravitational waves - ripples in space-time thrown off by super-dense > astronomical objects such as neutron stars and black holes. GEO600 has not > detected any gravitational waves so far, but it might inadvertently have > made the most important discovery in physics for half a century. > > For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads > over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of > the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had > even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to > Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, > Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the > point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein > described and instead dissolves into "grains", just as a newspaper > photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. "It looks like GEO600 is > being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time," says > Hogan." > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a- > giant-hologram.html?full=true&print=true > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 18 02:58:35 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 18 02:58:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Heavy Water in the Bucket (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <29717DBC55F242FE912081ED16B4C3AD@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: > Tritium is used to make glow-in-the-dark gun sights. [Axel] And luminescent road signs for military vehicles. Yes, we used a couple of those on a field trip. We were looking for fluorescent minerals at the Plombieres locality (red fl calcite, blue fl hydrozincite, yellow fl gypsum and green fl willemite). It's a rather tricky place to stroll around at night ;-))) On of the group members was a high ranking Belgian army officer. He brought the signs. Cheers Axel From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 18 09:00:29 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 18 09:01:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7119BA7A740C483AAC2FC651B3704A93@kadok> Thanks, Pete, So, then, glacial ice (formed from snowfall), does/can actually contain air. Right? And thus weighs less than an equal volume of water. (Which is what I was trying to get at, since the original question seemed to be about a glacier??) Margaret Hi Margaret, ---- >ice, a crystalline solid, cannot accommodate those gas molecules in its >crystal structure, the way they can be accommodated in a disordered, free->moving >liquid solution; that's why, when you freeze water in an ice cube tray, >the >ice cubes tend to contain bubbles in their centers, where the air that had >been dissolved in the water separates to form air bubbles in the ice. Ice >that >forms from freezing of liquid water would contain bubbles for this reason, >whereas ice formed by compaction of snowfall, contains air bubbles simply >due >to the entrapment of air caught within the porous mass of snowflakes. ----- Pete From kadok at infowest.com Sun Jan 18 09:07:20 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Jan 18 09:07:19 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48342EA2B17B45EEA486E8BACFF433D3@kadok> Thanks, Jim, I guess I should've made clear that I was thinking of glacial ice, which is formed from snow. The air isn't actually part of the snow itself, but becomes trapped as it is compacted into glacial ice. Margaret Margaret- I think Pete covered what I was going to say. Yes, there's usually dissolved gases in water, but they are excluded from the ice structure when it forms. A similar thing happens with salts when sea ice forms. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sea ice is essentially fresh water ice. There might be some sea water trapped as inclusions in the ice, but the salts aren't part of the the ice's structure. Doesn't zone refining (melting and recrystallizing soething like a boule of synthetic ruby) involve a similar mechanism--exclusion of impurities via repeated melting and recrystallization? jim On 1/17/09 9:55 AM, "Pmodreski@aol.com" wrote: > Hi Margaret, > > "At equilibrium", liquids can contain a larger amount of dissolved gases > than solids can. Liquid water will always contain a certain amount of > dissolved > atmospheric gases--the amount becomes less, the higher the temperature. But > ice, a crystalline solid, cannot accommodate those gas molecules in its > crystal structure, the way they can be accommodated in a disordered, > free-moving > liquid solution; that's why, when you freeze water in an ice cube tray, the > ice cubes tend to contain bubbles in their centers, where the air that had > been dissolved in the water separates to form air bubbles in the ice. Ice > that > forms from freezing of liquid water would contain bubbles for this reason, > whereas ice formed by compaction of snowfall, contains air bubbles simply due > to the entrapment of air caught within the porous mass of snowflakes. > > The "cages" between interlinked water molecules in ice are very small, and > aren't really large enough to contain and trap air molecules; whereas for > example in the zeolite minerals, where we also speak of cage structures, the > "cages" and "tunnels" are formed by much larger rings of multiple ions in the > structure, so these much larger open spaces can readily contain large ions or > gas molecules, and allow them to become trapped in or move (diffuse) through > the > structure. > > Pete > > > In a message dated 1/17/2009 8:40:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > kadok@infowest.com writes: > > > That is really interesting! You mean, there is no air in the cages? > There is usually air in water, though. Unless it has been sitting very still > for some time. > Thanx! > Margaret > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question? > >> Margaret- >> Just FYI, and I'm not trying to be nit-picking, but the ice-water >> transformation is a fascinating process, especially when it produces a >> solid >> that is less dense than the liquid it formed form. Ice is less dense than >> water because it has a more open, cage-like crystal structure whereas in >> water, the individual water molecules are, on average, closer together than >> they are in the solid. As water cools to near freezing, cage-like >> structures begin to form from groups of water molecules, and initially have >> small un-linked H2O molecules in the interiors of the cages. But as the >> freezing temperature is approached, more and more of the free, small, >> cage-filling molecules are incorporated into the cage structure, leaving >> empty cages and producing a lower density (or greater volume) for the >> initial amount of water. No air is involved. >> In natural ice, there often is air entrapped, and that would certainly >> lower the bulk density of the ice, but even air-free ice is leass dense >> than liquid water. > > Cheers, > Jim Murowchick > > tml > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt p: > //www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From stu at arcrystalmine.com Sun Jan 18 10:02:47 2009 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Sun Jan 18 10:02:57 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Avant Wavellite in Tucson References: Message-ID: <1CA9097F0D384BC6B2C3AEAD572198F2@STU2> For anyone going to Quartzsite or Tucson this year we have around 1200 pounds of beautiful Avant Wavellite from the deLinde Wavellite Mine for sale. Judy Morton (Judy's Crystals) and Ray McGrew are set up at Desert Gardens (A-B 15-16) right now and will be moving to the Tucson Electric Park tent 25 behind Diamond Pacific around January 30. Stop by and say hi to Judy and Ray. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 10:21:41 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jan 18 10:21:46 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <7119BA7A740C483AAC2FC651B3704A93@kadok> References: <7119BA7A740C483AAC2FC651B3704A93@kadok> Message-ID: Yeah but that isn't the primary reason that ice is less dense than water. BK On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:00, Margaret Malm wrote: > > Thanks, Pete, > So, then, glacial ice (formed from snowfall), does/can actually contain > air. > Right? And thus weighs less than an equal volume of water. (Which is what I > was trying to get at, since the original question seemed to be about a > glacier??) > > Margaret > > > Hi Margaret, > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jan 18 13:23:54 2009 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Jan 18 13:24:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Subject line : ICE In-Reply-To: <48342EA2B17B45EEA486E8BACFF433D3@kadok> References: <48342EA2B17B45EEA486E8BACFF433D3@kadok> Message-ID: <001f01c979b3$1122f3e0$3368dba0$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi guys, isn't it time to change the subject line for this thread to "Ice" or something ? "Question" doesn't yield a lot of information... (Yes I know, I have also already committed this type of "crime" :>)) - this is meant only as just a friendly reminder... Grts, Rik DILLEN E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen MINERANT 2009 9-10/5/2009 Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium www.minerant.org -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Sent: zondag 18 januari 2009 To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Question? From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Jan 18 19:38:31 2009 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jb) Date: Sun Jan 18 19:38:41 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? In-Reply-To: <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> Message-ID: <4973F5B7.8080004@hal-pc.org> Margaret Malm wrote: > Getting way back to figuring the weight of the ice -- > I realize that this is nit-picking, but -- > 1) the reason ice weighs a bit less than water is, of course, because it has > a little air in it. > 2) but not all ice has the same amount of air in it. > The bottommost (deep blue) ice of a big glacier is VERY hard, because the > weight of the the ice on top of it has actually compressed it, squeezing air > out. > No. the reason that ice floats is that the density of 0 degree C. solid water is less than the density of 0 degree C. liquid water. And that is a very good thing. Otherwise solid ice would sink to the bottom of any any lake or river and allow the accumulation of more and more ice until the whole mass is frozen. But the solid surface actually preserves the heat in the remaining water, and inhibits complete freezing. Multitudes of animals (and other) that live in the water depend upon that property to survive the winter. john From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Jan 18 20:04:22 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Jan 18 20:04:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice in galciers) In-Reply-To: <4973F5B7.8080004@hal-pc.org> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> <4973F5B7.8080004@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <4973FBC6.3030202@verizon.net> jb wrote: > No. the reason that ice floats is that the density of 0 degree C. solid > water is less than the density of 0 degree C. liquid water. Hi all, The reason ice under great pressure has a different density is because the pressure allows it to form a different crystal structure: http://www.cmmp.ucl.ac.uk/people/finney/soi.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Jan 18 20:53:47 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 18 20:53:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice flowers Message-ID: Speaking of our ice discussions, I happened to see this interesting article about ice "flowers" that form around plant stems on the ground. A picture and link to this subject is on the spaceweather.com website, _http://www.spaceweather.com/_ (http://www.spaceweather.com/) , and a full story is linked at, _http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/_ (http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/) Ice Ribbons, Ice Flowers, Frost Flowers or whatever they might be called Aside from the unusual-looking pictures themselves, and the question of exactly how this type of ice growth forms, what struck me is the great resemblance of these ice "flowers" to some mineral formations, such as rams-horn selenite, but more especially, to "chalcedony roses", which I think are rather enigmatic themselves as to exactly how they form within gas bubbles in rhyolite lavas. Perhaps there is something to be learned about them by comparing these ice formations. Pete **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 04:10:30 2009 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jan 19 04:10:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? Message-ID: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Rik: I have thousands of millions of ice crystals now, 4 inches of them all over about 100(+/-) acres of WV hillside.? Maybe the rock-hounding aspects of ice are almost exhausted, now. But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated contributors, how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just a couple of weeks ago - we visited a very professionally operated indoor pistol range while on vacation... ) be manufactured and used for years? It didn't LOOK radioactive!? ;-)? on the pistol...? I know, just saying. Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have an appointment to get the hubs packed. Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte AND Burl Ives did versions.? It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song book.? I was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book...? if I recall correctly Keep on rockin'! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Jan 19 09:08:31 2009 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Jan 19 09:08:40 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c97a58$8e8e4910$abaadb30$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi JR, I'm sorry, but I don't know nothing about tritium gun sights (or other parts of any kind of weapons...), so I won't be able to answer your question... Wish you good luck with all those splendid ice crystals that are ready to be collected at your place ! Cheers, Rik DILLEN E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen MINERANT 2009 9-10/5/2009 Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium www.minerant.org -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel Sent: maandag 19 januari 2009 13:11 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? Hi Rik: I have thousands of millions of ice crystals now, 4 inches of them all over about 100(+/-) acres of WV hillside.? Maybe the rock-hounding aspects of ice are almost exhausted, now. But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated contributors, how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just a couple of weeks ago - we visited a very professionally operated indoor pistol range while on vacation... ) be manufactured and used for years? It didn't LOOK radioactive!? ;-)? on the pistol...? I know, just saying. Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have an appointment to get the hubs packed. Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte AND Burl Ives did versions.? It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song book.? I was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book...? if I recall correctly Keep on rockin'! JR From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Mon Jan 19 07:46:09 2009 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Jan 19 10:11:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADDRESS OPF ED ROGERS Message-ID: <000d01c97a61$5029c1a0$de4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi List, Many years ago I used to receive lists from Ed Rogers of "RARE & OUT-OF-PRINT GEOSCIENCE BOOKS" . Does anybody know if he is still around and if he has an e-mail address? The cover of one such list (dated April 1998) gave his postal address as:- Ed Rogers, P.O. Box 455, Poncha Springs, Colorado 81242. Sent an e-mail to his previous e-mail address, which could not be delivered. Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jan 19 10:15:56 2009 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 19 10:16:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADDRESS OPF ED ROGERS In-Reply-To: <000d01c97a61$5029c1a0$de4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <000d01c97a61$5029c1a0$de4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: Horst: Google is your friend: http://www.geology-books.com/servlet/StoreFront GcB -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Horst Windisch Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:46 AM To: rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] ADDRESS OPF ED ROGERS Hi List, Many years ago I used to receive lists from Ed Rogers of "RARE & OUT-OF-PRINT GEOSCIENCE BOOKS" . Does anybody know if he is still around and if he has an e-mail address? The cover of one such list (dated April 1998) gave his postal address as:- Ed Rogers, P.O. Box 455, Poncha Springs, Colorado 81242. Sent an e-mail to his previous e-mail address, which could not be delivered. Horst From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jan 19 10:15:58 2009 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 19 10:16:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADDRESS OPF ED ROGERS In-Reply-To: <000d01c97a61$5029c1a0$de4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <000d01c97a61$5029c1a0$de4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: <511746DF34EA4A78B818A7BC0503F6FD@DS9> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Horst Windisch Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:46 AM To: rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] ADDRESS OPF ED ROGERS Hi List, Many years ago I used to receive lists from Ed Rogers of "RARE & OUT-OF-PRINT GEOSCIENCE BOOKS" . Does anybody know if he is still around and if he has an e-mail address? The cover of one such list (dated April 1998) gave his postal address as:- Ed Rogers, P.O. Box 455, Poncha Springs, Colorado 81242. Sent an e-mail to his previous e-mail address, which could not be delivered. Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 11:12:08 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:12:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: I wasn't sure if it was a serious question, but the answer is that Tritium has a 12 yr half life so you have to replace the glowing part of the sight when it starts to dim. I'd guess that it would be good for 6-12 years. BK On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:08, Rik Dillen wrote: > Hi JR, I'm sorry, but I don't know nothing about tritium gun sights (or > other parts of any kind of weapons...), so I won't be able to answer your > question... > Wish you good luck with all those splendid ice crystals that are ready to > be > collected at your place ! > Cheers, > > Rik DILLEN > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2009 > 9-10/5/2009 > Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium > www.minerant.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel > Sent: maandag 19 januari 2009 13:11 > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > Hi Rik: > > I have thousands of millions of ice crystals now, 4 inches of them all over > about 100(+/-) acres of WV hillside. Maybe the rock-hounding aspects of > ice > are almost exhausted, now. > But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short > half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated > contributors, > how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just a couple of weeks > ago - we visited a very professionally operated indoor pistol range while > on > vacation... ) be manufactured and used for years? > It didn't LOOK radioactive! ;-) on the pistol... I know, just saying. > Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have an > appointment to get the hubs packed. > Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte AND > Burl Ives did versions. It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song book. I > was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book... if I recall correctly > Keep on rockin'! > JR > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 19 11:17:54 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:21:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD- Kimzeyite and Rutile sixlings References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: List members...I would like to remind rare species collectors that I still have several specimens of Kimzeyite (the zirconium garnet), and several sixling twinned Rutile crystals for sale. These are small, in the order of 7-12mm in size, and mostly single crystals, and are not pretty! Both species are from Magnet Cove, AR and were collected many years ago. Larry From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jan 19 11:24:48 2009 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:24:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice in galciers) In-Reply-To: <4973FBC6.3030202@verizon.net> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com><5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> <4973F5B7.8080004@hal-pc.org> <4973FBC6.3030202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <704E994D87D540268C308EB284125CB6@kadok> OHO!Thank you! Very interesting! I was wondering whether the crystal structures just collapsed due to the pressure, or what. Margaret Hi all, The reason ice under great pressure has a different density is because the pressure allows it to form a different crystal structure: http://www.cmmp.ucl.ac.uk/people/finney/soi.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jan 19 11:27:50 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:28:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a radio-luminescent substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be functioning far beyond the half life span of 12 years. Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: maandag 19 januari 2009 20:12 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > I wasn't sure if it was a serious question, but the answer is that Tritium > has a 12 yr half life so you have to replace the glowing part of the sight > when it starts to dim. I'd guess that it would be good for 6-12 years. > > BK > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:08, Rik Dillen wrote: > > > Hi JR, I'm sorry, but I don't know nothing about tritium gun sights (or > > other parts of any kind of weapons...), so I won't be able to answer your > > question... > > Wish you good luck with all those splendid ice crystals that are ready to > > be > > collected at your place ! > > Cheers, > > > > Rik DILLEN > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > > > MINERANT 2009 > > 9-10/5/2009 > > Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium > > www.minerant.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel > > Sent: maandag 19 januari 2009 13:11 > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > > > Hi Rik: > > > > I have thousands of millions of ice crystals now, 4 inches of them all over > > about 100(+/-) acres of WV hillside. Maybe the rock-hounding aspects of > > ice > > are almost exhausted, now. > > But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short > > half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated > > contributors, > > how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just a couple of weeks > > ago - we visited a very professionally operated indoor pistol range while > > on > > vacation... ) be manufactured and used for years? > > It didn't LOOK radioactive! ;-) on the pistol... I know, just saying. > > Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have an > > appointment to get the hubs packed. > > Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte AND > > Burl Ives did versions. It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song book. I > > was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book... if I recall correctly > > Keep on rockin'! > > JR > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jan 19 11:35:50 2009 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:36:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <7A8E8C5E6C314C959EA286938F975F09@DS9> Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember that cadmium sulfide (or was it zinc sulfide?) fluoresces when exposed to alpha particles. There was a piece of paper in the old Gilbert chemistry sets that was used to show that... But then, I'm trying to remember something from 1962! GcB -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 1:28 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a radio-luminescent substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be functioning far beyond the half life span of 12 years. Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... Cheers Axel From everbeek at ptd.net Mon Jan 19 11:38:30 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Mon Jan 19 11:38:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question =?UTF-8?Q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <1e774fbcd4734830c908112ac46de2e1@ptd.net> wrote: > I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a radio-luminescent > substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. > If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be functioning > far beyond the half life span of 12 years. > Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... Yes, unless the crystal structure of the phosphor gets destroyed by the same radiation that causes it to luminesce. My radium watch no longer shows any response at all because the phosphor is now metamict. I wonder what phosphor they use in gunsights... Cheers- Earl From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jan 19 14:06:41 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jan 19 14:06:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4974F971.8050401@verizon.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: >But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short half-life Hi, The half-life is tritium is about 12 years. I don't know how much tritium is in a sight package, but you can check with the manufacturer on recommended replacement cycles. I do know people who have replaced them after some amount of time in use. Best, Don From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 16:23:08 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 19 16:23:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid> <5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: No the tritium doesn't glow, but it is the power source for the material that does glow. So no tritium, no glow. They used CdS in radium watch dials I think, don't know what the gun sights use. BK On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 14:27, Axel Emmermann wrote: > I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a radio-luminescent > substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. > If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be functioning > far beyond the half life span of 12 years. > Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... > > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens J Bryan Kramer > > Verzonden: maandag 19 januari 2009 20:12 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > > > I wasn't sure if it was a serious question, but the answer is that > Tritium > > has a 12 yr half life so you have to replace the glowing part of the > sight > > when it starts to dim. I'd guess that it would be good for 6-12 years. > > > > BK > > > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:08, Rik Dillen wrote: > > > > > Hi JR, I'm sorry, but I don't know nothing about tritium gun sights (or > > > other parts of any kind of weapons...), so I won't be able to answer > your > > > question... > > > Wish you good luck with all those splendid ice crystals that are ready > to > > > be > > > collected at your place ! > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rik DILLEN > > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > > > > > MINERANT 2009 > > > 9-10/5/2009 > > > Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium > > > www.minerant.org > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel > > > Sent: maandag 19 januari 2009 13:11 > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > > > > > Hi Rik: > > > > > > I have thousands of millions of ice crystals now, 4 inches of them all > over > > > about 100(+/-) acres of WV hillside. Maybe the rock-hounding aspects > of > > > ice > > > are almost exhausted, now. > > > But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a short > > > half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated > > > contributors, > > > how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just a couple of > weeks > > > ago - we visited a very professionally operated indoor pistol range > while > > > on > > > vacation... ) be manufactured and used for years? > > > It didn't LOOK radioactive! ;-) on the pistol... I know, just > saying. > > > Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have > an > > > appointment to get the hubs packed. > > > Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte > AND > > > Burl Ives did versions. It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song book. > I > > > was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book... if I recall > correctly > > > Keep on rockin'! > > > JR > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly > colored > > than the day." > > > > Vincent van Gogh > > J Bryan Kr?mer > > North Florida, USA > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 16:31:32 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 19 16:31:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question? (ice in galciers) In-Reply-To: <704E994D87D540268C308EB284125CB6@kadok> References: <006001c9775f$3c81ae60$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <200901160124.n0G1OfZd030705@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5BC51EB78A4445818625C6B35A08350F@kadok> <4973F5B7.8080004@hal-pc.org> <4973FBC6.3030202@verizon.net> <704E994D87D540268C308EB284125CB6@kadok> Message-ID: Pressure and low temp generally. One, I think, is stable at 270 K but most are low temp phases. Not counting the ice we see which is Ice 1h BK On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 14:24, Margaret Malm wrote: > > OHO!Thank you! Very interesting! I was wondering whether the crystal > structures just > collapsed due to the pressure, or what. > Margaret > > > Hi all, > > The reason ice under great pressure has a different density is because > the pressure allows it to form a different crystal structure: > > http://www.cmmp.ucl.ac.uk/people/finney/soi.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 19 16:42:03 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 19 16:41:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <1e774fbcd4734830c908112ac46de2e1@ptd.net> Message-ID: <27B0247F-E68B-11DD-8533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Probably much the same as in your TV. Wiki has a reasonable article on phosphors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor Kreigh On Monday, Jan 19, 2009, at 14:38 America/Detroit, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > wrote: >> I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a >> radio-luminescent >> substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. >> If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be > functioning >> far beyond the half life span of 12 years. >> Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... > > Yes, unless the crystal structure of the phosphor gets destroyed by the > same radiation that causes it to luminesce. My radium watch no longer > shows any response at all because the phosphor is now metamict. I > wonder > what phosphor they use in gunsights... > > Cheers- Earl > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 19 17:00:05 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 19 16:59:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The answer probably lies in half-life. A half-life of 12 years means that in the first 12 years half of the radioactive atoms will self-destruct. In the second 12 years half of the remaining atoms will self-destruct. In the third 12 years half of the remaining atoms will self-destruct. And so on... It is a probability thing. If we take one atom and wait the half-life, there is a 50% chance it will have self-destructed. Do it over and over, and the results approach 50% - half will still be atoms, and half will have gone poof. If the phosphor in the gunsight needs 1/4 of the remaining radioactivity to still be useful it will last two half-lives, or about 24 years, but it will slowly grow dimmer over that entire period. Because it is based on probability, it would be logical it is a quantum effect. Explaining how each of the atoms knows when to break down would probably get you a Nobel Prize. Kreigh On Monday, Jan 19, 2009, at 07:10 America/Detroit, J. R. Hodel wrote: > > But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a > short half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated > contributors, how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just > a couple of weeks ago - we visited a very professionally operated > indoor pistol range while on vacation... ) be manufactured and used > for years? > > It didn't LOOK radioactive!? ;-)? on the pistol...? I know, just > saying. > > Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have > an appointment to get the hubs packed. > > Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte > AND Burl Ives did versions.? It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song > book.? I was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book...? if I > recall correctly > > Keep on rockin'! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 19 19:08:30 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 19 19:07:27 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice flowers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9D357DD2-E69F-11DD-8533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, That is really cool. Now that I know what to look for, I can only hope I find one. Kreigh On Sunday, Jan 18, 2009, at 23:53 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of our ice discussions, I happened to see this interesting > article > about ice "flowers" that form around plant stems on the ground. A > picture > and link to this subject is on the spaceweather.com website, > _http://www.spaceweather.com/_ (http://www.spaceweather.com/) , > > and a full story is linked at, > _http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/_ > (http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/) > Ice Ribbons, Ice Flowers, Frost Flowers or whatever they might be > called > > Aside from the unusual-looking pictures themselves, and the question of > exactly how this type of ice growth forms, what struck me is the great > resemblance of these ice "flowers" to some mineral formations, such as > rams-horn > selenite, but more especially, to "chalcedony roses", which I think > are rather > enigmatic themselves as to exactly how they form within gas bubbles in > rhyolite > lavas. Perhaps there is something to be learned about them by > comparing these > ice formations. > > Pete > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/ > aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/ > default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 19 19:22:21 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jan 19 19:22:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice flowers References: Message-ID: <068C8F61E2A6406A9A1946C8347AE5F0@Goldstein> I've seen them around Salvia plants in my yard. It is usually when we have the first or second hard freeze. (A frost kills the plant, but isn't cold enough to cause them.) The moisture in the dead plants freezes and exudes out ice a couple of centimeters above the ground. I've probably got some photos on a CD somewhere around my desk. I've also seen them in a cave after it has been really cold. Those look more like ram's horn gypsum. Alan G. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:53 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice flowers > Speaking of our ice discussions, I happened to see this interesting > article > about ice "flowers" that form around plant stems on the ground. A picture > and link to this subject is on the spaceweather.com website, > _http://www.spaceweather.com/_ (http://www.spaceweather.com/) , > > and a full story is linked at, > _http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/_ (http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/) > Ice Ribbons, Ice Flowers, Frost Flowers or whatever they might be called > > Aside from the unusual-looking pictures themselves, and the question of > exactly how this type of ice growth forms, what struck me is the great > resemblance of these ice "flowers" to some mineral formations, such as > rams-horn > selenite, but more especially, to "chalcedony roses", which I think are > rather > enigmatic themselves as to exactly how they form within gas bubbles in > rhyolite > lavas. Perhaps there is something to be learned about them by comparing > these > ice formations. > > Pete > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Mon Jan 19 20:36:06 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 19 20:36:14 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question & radioactive gunsights & stuff Message-ID: Kreigh, I'm with you, I have always wondered about those atoms, how each of those little buggers decides when it is time to go "poof" ! P.S. to a previous post, I guess I have heard of such thing as phosphors deteriorating due to radiation exposure, but I have an old (given to me when I was a kid, in the 1950s) glow-in-the-dark radium (not tritium) dial Bulova watch, and the last I ever checked (which was some years ago, but it was already 50 or so years old at the time) it was still glowing fine. No, I don't wear it any more; I've checked it with a scintillometer and geiger counter; it is "hot as a pistol". (scary??) Pete In a message dated 1/19/2009 5:59:22 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: The answer probably lies in half-life. A half-life of 12 years means that in the first 12 years half of the radioactive atoms will self-destruct. In the second 12 years half of the remaining atoms will self-destruct. In the third 12 years half of the remaining atoms will self-destruct. And so on... It is a probability thing. If we take one atom and wait the half-life, there is a 50% chance it will have self-destructed. Do it over and over, and the results approach 50% - half will still be atoms, and half will have gone poof. If the phosphor in the gunsight needs 1/4 of the remaining radioactivity to still be useful it will last two half-lives, or about 24 years, but it will slowly grow dimmer over that entire period. Because it is based on probability, it would be logical it is a quantum effect. Explaining how each of the atoms knows when to break down would probably get you a Nobel Prize. Kreigh On Monday, Jan 19, 2009, at 07:10 America/Detroit, J. R. Hodel wrote: > > But if the Tritium-based heavy water is highly radioactive with a > short half-life, as mentioned recently by one of our highly educated > contributors, how can so-called tritium gun sights (which I used just > a couple of weeks ago - we visited a very professionally operated > indoor pistol range while on vacation... ) be manufactured and used > for years? > > It didn't LOOK radioactive! ;-) on the pistol... I know, just > saying. > > Well, I've got to get going now, 3 or 4 more inches coming, but I have > an appointment to get the hubs packed. > > Axel, Little Liza wasn't as obscure as I thought, if Harry Belafonte > AND Burl Ives did versions. It was also in my wife's Girl Scout song > book. I was a Cub Scout, but we didn't use a song book... if I > recall correctly > > Keep on rockin'! > > JR > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Jan 19 21:22:40 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Mon Jan 19 21:23:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice flowers In-Reply-To: <9D357DD2-E69F-11DD-8533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <9D357DD2-E69F-11DD-8533-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003201c97abf$1df77a70$59e66f50$@com> OK how many of you played the video of the meteor? :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- On Sunday, Jan 18, 2009, at 23:53 America/Detroit, Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of our ice discussions, I happened to see this interesting > article > about ice "flowers" that form around plant stems on the ground. A > picture > and link to this subject is on the spaceweather.com website, > _http://www.spaceweather.com/_ (http://www.spaceweather.com/) , > > and a full story is linked at, > _http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/_ > (http://my.ilstu.edu/~jrcarter/ice/) > Ice Ribbons, Ice Flowers, Frost Flowers or whatever they might be > called > > Aside from the unusual-looking pictures themselves, and the question of > exactly how this type of ice growth forms, what struck me is the great > resemblance of these ice "flowers" to some mineral formations, such as > rams-horn > selenite, but more especially, to "chalcedony roses", which I think > are rather > enigmatic themselves as to exactly how they form within gas bubbles in > rhyolite > lavas. Perhaps there is something to be learned about them by > comparing these > ice formations. > > Pete From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 20 05:53:38 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 20 05:54:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <1e774fbcd4734830c908112ac46de2e1@ptd.net> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><5544019448042756044@unknownmsgid><5F6FBDE42C55400DA2AEDF252E56F3E3@AXELDESKTOP> <1e774fbcd4734830c908112ac46de2e1@ptd.net> Message-ID: Which is logical, Earl. Radium sends out a high energy alpha-particle upon decaying to radon. Helium nuclei don't get far but they can reap havoc in crystals I guess. The decay of tritium is relatively gentle in comparison; 3H --> 3He + ?- + anti-neutrino. One neutron splits up in a proton (making He out of H) a low energy electron and an anti-neutrino. Much less damaging ;-))) So the 3H sight will last longer than the radium watch. Me thinks ;-))) Chjeers Axel. > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Earl R. Verbeek > Verzonden: maandag 19 januari 2009 20:39 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > wrote: > > I don't think it's the tritium that glows but rather a radio-luminescent > > substance that responds to the decay of the tritium. > > If so, the luminosity of the glowing part of the sight would be > functioning > > far beyond the half life span of 12 years. > > Far beyond the intended use of a gun sight too ... > > Yes, unless the crystal structure of the phosphor gets destroyed by the > same radiation that causes it to luminesce. My radium watch no longer > shows any response at all because the phosphor is now metamict. I wonder > what phosphor they use in gunsights... > > Cheers- Earl > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 20 06:11:21 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 20 06:11:43 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <128A01F8814C4C579EDF8334E792E570@AXELDESKTOP> > If the phosphor in the gunsight needs 1/4 of the remaining > radioactivity to still be useful it will last two half-lives, or about > 24 years, but it will slowly grow dimmer over that entire period. [Axel] Not necessarily! I have a target plate of an old electron microscope. It's incredibly fluorescent in either cathode rays or UV. It responds to even the weakest UV-shimmer with a bright greenish yellow fluorescence. Theoretically, the fluorescence would diminish with the square power of the distance. So if I put my Superbright at 5 inches from the plate and then double that distance, the fluorescence would fall to 1/4 of the original luminosity. It doesn't. If I then were to increase the distance to 20 inches the fluorescence should drop to 1/8 of the original strength. It is however still as bright. If I repeat the experiment starting with say 1 meter, 2 meters, 4 meters.... the theory fits the data. Why? There's a threshold above which fluorescence is already at a maximum. You need to initiate the experiment at the distance at which the UV-flux meets the maximum possible emission flux. I think that a tritium sight has more tritium than strictly needed and that the luminescence is limited by the maximum output of the fluorescing medium. It would take a few years before the tritium is depleted below that threshold. Oh well, that 's how I would make such a sight. Cheers Axel From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jan 20 06:22:39 2009 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jan 20 06:23:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <128A01F8814C4C579EDF8334E792E570@AXELDESKTOP> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <128A01F8814C4C579EDF8334E792E570@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <0E64502DCFD842DEA6A5C2726B4DBEF3@D8YF2G81> Axel said >. Oh well, that 's how I would make such a sight. Ah but there are 3 schools of engineering The Russian School: Comrade we need 1 Mcg if tritium, so lets put 1 Mg, that way it will for sure work... maybe Health effects what is that... The German School: Get a team of engineers to determine that the sight needs to work for 20 years to meet customer expectation. They then calculate the exact amount of Tritium needed and build a sight with that plus a small safety margin. The American School of thought: Get a bunch of marketers together to figure out how short a warranty they can put on the sight and get away with it working enough so the sight won't comeback during the warranty period, but will fail 1 week later so that the client will need to buy another. And now we have a 4th school The Chinese school: Doesn't matter what the contract says, build the sight with Melamine instead of Tritium and laugh if you try to return it because it doesn't work With tongue firmly in cheek Kay From smkell45 at aol.com Tue Jan 20 14:34:39 2009 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:34:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mujuram ? Message-ID: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> Hi. Just bought a specimen of brochantite on linarite. Location was Mujuram, Morocco. Anyone know where this is? Thanx smkell From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Jan 20 14:40:00 2009 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:40:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mujuram ? In-Reply-To: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <497652C0.8060009@arczip.com> smkell45@aol.com wrote: > Hi. Just bought a specimen of brochantite on linarite. Location was > Mujuram, Morocco. Anyone know where this is? Thanx smkell If you go to Google and type in MUJRAM morocco you will find all sorts of stuff about that area. Chuck Baran From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Jan 20 14:41:14 2009 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Jan 20 14:41:26 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mujuram ? In-Reply-To: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4976530A.9070907@arczip.com> smkell45@aol.com wrote: > Hi. Just bought a specimen of brochantite on linarite. Location was > Mujuram, Morocco. Anyone know where this is? Thanx smkell Mistake. You have the spelling correct it is MUJURAM. Chuck From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 20 19:28:51 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 20 19:28:51 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ice pix Message-ID: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> We had some cold weather along the Ohio River that created some interesting ice coatings. This website has some of the photos I took with a bit of a story. http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/73/index.html Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 20 20:42:32 2009 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 20 20:42:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ice pix In-Reply-To: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> References: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> Message-ID: Cool!!! RRRR...COLD!!!! Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. Glenn Wimpee > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:28:51 -0500 > CC: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] ice pix> > We had some cold weather along the Ohio River that created some interesting ice coatings. This website has some of the photos I took with a bit of a story. http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/73/index.html> > Alan G.> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Jan 20 21:57:15 2009 From: jaybates at rcn.com (Jay Bates) Date: Tue Jan 20 21:59:32 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ice pix In-Reply-To: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> References: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> Message-ID: <4976B93B.1060201@rcn.com> Thanks for sharing that website with us. A lot of interesting stuff there. I enjoyed the Wyoming fossils the most since that is my home state. Alan Goldstein wrote: > We had some cold weather along the Ohio River that created some interesting ice coatings. This website has some of the photos I took with a bit of a story. http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/73/index.html > > Alan G. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 21 15:01:20 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:01:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] ice pix In-Reply-To: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> References: <0CD43CF7FD0544A2A290515B65BDC1F4@Goldstein> Message-ID: <490E57B15DF34772A9F376B0C07333B3@AXELDESKTOP> Great stuff, Alan! Thanks for sharing it. Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: woensdag 21 januari 2009 4:29 > Aan: Paleolist > CC: Rockhounds List > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ice pix > > We had some cold weather along the Ohio River that created some interesting ice coatings. > This website has some of the photos I took with a bit of a story. > http://www.lakeneosho.org/Paleolist/73/index.html > > Alan G. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 21 15:10:01 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:10:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? In-Reply-To: <0E64502DCFD842DEA6A5C2726B4DBEF3@D8YF2G81> References: <991647.23990.qm@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com><128A01F8814C4C579EDF8334E792E570@AXELDESKTOP> <0E64502DCFD842DEA6A5C2726B4DBEF3@D8YF2G81> Message-ID: <8FBDDB61EF1A4E5EA0415DDD278663A0@AXELDESKTOP> And the Belgian solution: First we drink a few Beers. Then we realize that Belgium is too small to shoot anything that needs a scope... Then we celebrate this insight with another fermented beverage. I may have said this before but: take Florida and a pair of scissors... cut off the part that is south of Tampa. Put aside the larger part. Yes, the small part is about the size of Belgium. We had 3223 breweries in 1900. Belgium was even smaller then since we acquired the eastern cantons after WW1. There's about 240 breweries left now... These are dire times, my friends. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Kay Davis > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 januari 2009 15:23 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Ice question ? > > Axel said >. Oh well, that 's how I would make such a sight. > > Ah but there are 3 schools of engineering > > The Russian School: Comrade we need 1 Mcg if tritium, so lets put 1 Mg, that > way it will for sure work... maybe Health effects what is that... > > The German School: Get a team of engineers to determine that the sight needs > to work for 20 years to meet customer expectation. They then calculate the > exact amount of Tritium needed and build a sight with that plus a small > safety margin. > > The American School of thought: Get a bunch of marketers together to figure > out how short a warranty they can put on the sight and get away with it > working enough so the sight won't comeback during the warranty period, but > will fail 1 week later so that the client will need to buy another. > > And now we have a 4th school > The Chinese school: Doesn't matter what the contract says, build the sight > with Melamine instead of Tritium and laugh if you try to return it because > it doesn't work > > With tongue firmly in cheek > Kay > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 21 15:12:55 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:13:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mujuram ? In-Reply-To: <497652C0.8060009@arczip.com> References: <8CB49666A42D213-13C-1024@WEBMAIL-DC12.sysops.aol.com> <497652C0.8060009@arczip.com> Message-ID: No, you don't (at least I didn't). I think the right name is Muharram. Mindat knows that place but doesn't put it on it's Google map. Cheers Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens Charles Baran > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 januari 2009 23:40 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Mujuram ? > > smkell45@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi. Just bought a specimen of brochantite on linarite. Location was > > Mujuram, Morocco. Anyone know where this is? Thanx smkell > > > If you go to Google and type in MUJRAM morocco you will find all > sorts of stuff about that area. > > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hammerron at yahoo.com Thu Jan 22 06:16:01 2009 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Thu Jan 22 06:16:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas fault in the news Message-ID: <385574.25710.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_re_us/arkansas_earthquakes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 22 18:53:58 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 22 18:52:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Origin of the Land Under the Sea Message-ID: <14C24530-E8F9-11DD-A7EA-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> If you don't subscribe to Scientific American you may want to visit your local library and look up page 52 of the February 2009 issue that is just out. The deep basins under the oceans are carpeted with lava that spewed from submarine volcanoes and solidified. Scientists have solved the mystery of how, precisely, all that lava reaches the seafloor. The process begins with microscopic droplets of molten rock forming 150 km below the surface, turns into rivers of molten rock flowing upward thru the crust, and ends in deltas as it nears the surface, mirroring in rock the rivers on the surface of the earth. Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 23 03:31:12 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 23 03:31:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Running out of space In-Reply-To: <5E6CC23AF084411CA1B6CA782E39B6C1@AXELDESKTOP> References: <200901130201.n0D21ORc005570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <5E6CC23AF084411CA1B6CA782E39B6C1@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <288C9972AF7044BFAD823C8202046E9C@AXELDESKTOP> > > Indeed, Johan, what a memory! > Stockpiling radioactive material in ones bedroom is not really sane. > I wonder if Peter has any children? I also wonder what they would look > like... [Axel] Well , he has and they look healthy. I just got a call from Denmark from Kitty J?rgensen. Kitty (81) is a "member for life" of the FMS and she called me to tell about her book "Fluorescerende Mineraler, en Farvestr?lende Hobby!!!?. (Farvestr?lende meaning colourful, the rest of your Danish is good enough to translate it yourself ;-))) Peter is now married to a Gambian woman, Violet (probably the closest to ultraviolet that he could find). They have two healthy boys which proves that a little radioactivity does not necessarily affect the number of limbs per person. Just thought I?d let you know. Cheers Axel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jan 22 17:11:28 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jan 23 05:31:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Porter, WA Fossil ID? References: <385574.25710.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear List (focusing on fossil folks), As I label my plunder, I've pulled out an unknown fossil from Porter, WA, USA that I would love to ID. I had a great time digging it out of the mudstone matrix. Any takers? I have to assume that Tim will be spot-on. Photos available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372447/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372155/ My notes at the time tell me that it would be from the Lincoln Creek Formation, Eocene. Thanks again - John From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 23 07:34:13 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Jan 23 07:34:17 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Porter, WA Fossil ID? In-Reply-To: References: <385574.25710.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c97d70$0bbe2670$233a7350$@com> Nice Bathybembix columbiana! :) http://www.narg-online.com/trip_rpt_023.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:11 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Porter, WA Fossil ID? Dear List (focusing on fossil folks), As I label my plunder, I've pulled out an unknown fossil from Porter, WA, USA that I would love to ID. I had a great time digging it out of the mudstone matrix. Any takers? I have to assume that Tim will be spot-on. Photos available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372447/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372155/ My notes at the time tell me that it would be from the Lincoln Creek Formation, Eocene. Thanks again - John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 23 08:05:16 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 23 08:05:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Porter, WA Fossil ID? In-Reply-To: References: <385574.25710.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00A6A1896BF841718598F8BC66264A4A@AXELDESKTOP> John, You found what looks like a surround version of mount Rushmore ;-))) How's that for a Rorschach-test? I'm almost completely ignorant when it comes to dead animals that don't fluoresce. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 januari 2009 2:11 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Porter, WA Fossil ID? > > Dear List (focusing on fossil folks), > > As I label my plunder, I've pulled out an unknown fossil from Porter, WA, > USA that I would love to ID. I had a great time digging it out of the > mudstone matrix. Any takers? I have to assume that Tim will be spot-on. > Photos available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372447/ > and http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3218372155/ My notes at the > time tell me that it would be from the Lincoln Creek Formation, Eocene. > > Thanks again - John > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Fri Jan 23 10:18:24 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 23 10:18:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection for Sale Message-ID: <8CB4B9E1D478175-EF8-1BD@MBLK-M03.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, First I will apogize for multible postings, as some, like myself belong to more than one list serve. A gentleman from Doylestown, Penn., contacted me about a collection he has for sale, which belonged to a relative. I did go and look at it, so if you want to contact me off list I can tell you more about it. For now it contains minerals, fossils and some jewelry items. Which number several hundred pieces with very little junk specimens, which so many collections have. Lots of azurite, I guess the collector liked azurite. Also trilobites, ammonites, amber, geodes, quartz, polished items and much more. The fellow who is showing it, is: Howard Foreman 3675 E. Swamp Road Doylestown, PA 267-255-1965 I bought a few items since I drove that far to see it, but due to the economy, I can't afford the entire collection, so I told him I would help and advertize it for him. thanks for reading, dave From cornish at tfon.com Fri Jan 23 14:00:13 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John & Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Jan 23 14:02:46 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON 2009! Message-ID: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> Hi Everyone, I was in Quartzite yesterday and visited the Desert Gardens Show. I wandered through quite quickly as usual not seeing much. But, that may be due to the fact that I got very little sleep the night before and started my drive east to Quartzite at 4:45 a.m.! Two mega long days of driving! At Quartzite, I found a lady who had some very nice dinosaur bone for sale. I snapped off several photos and will share these in my report upcoming. While there, I returned a broken Arkansas digging bar which had snapped through an inch thick section of steel! Hopefully, the new bar replacing it will be a tad bit stronger!! As I write, I'm in Tucson and will check into my room at the Inn Suites tomorrow and then my adventure will truly begin. I'm being a tourist today and only stopped at one place, the mineral dealership of Superb Minerals. They have a brand new building stocked to the rafters (a small exaggeration only) and are open and already conducting business. I took a dozen or two photos of some of the real killers they are offering this year and know you'll as equally be impressed with their treasures. Apophyllites, calcites and a plethora of zeolite goodies. They even had one room filled exclusively with MONSTER-SIZED specimens all exceeding several feet and very impressive. It is raining off and on here today and the temperatures are comfortable by NW standards. I'll try to post little updates here throughout the show... wish me luck! All the very best everyone, take care, John ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 23 14:30:07 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 23 14:30:19 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON 2009! In-Reply-To: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> References: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> Message-ID: <8CB4BC1471D859F-13C8-2479@webmail-mf10.sysops.aol.com> Amazing, John, that "Tucson" is already starting, I can scarcely believe it!? Considering that it will be two full weeks (and a little more) until I get there, and I'll still be there "all week" for the main show. Keep us posted, and have fun, Pete -----Original Message----- From: John & Gloria Cornish To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 3:00 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON 2009! Hi Everyone, I was in Quartzite yesterday and visited the Desert Gardens Show. I wandered through quite quickly as usual not seeing much. But, that may be due to the fact that I got very little sleep the night before and started my drive east to Quartzite at 4:45 a.m.! Two mega long days of driving! At Quartzite, I found a lady who had some very nice dinosaur bone for sale. I snapped off several photos and will share these in my report upcoming. While there, I returned a broken Arkansas digging bar which had snapped through an inch thick section of steel! Hopefully, the new bar replacing it will be a tad bit stronger!! As I write, I'm in Tucson and will check into my room at the Inn Suites tomorrow and then my adventure will truly begin. I'm being a tourist today and only stopped at one place, the mineral dealership of Superb Minerals. They have a brand new building stocked to the rafters (a small exaggeration only) and are open and already conducting business. I took a dozen or two photos of some of the real killers they are offering this year and know you'll as equally be impressed with their treasures. Apophyllites, calcites and a plethora of zeolite goodies. They even had one room filled exclusively with MONSTER-SIZED specimens all exceeding several feet and very impressive. It is raining off and on here today and the temperatures are comfortable by NW standards. I'll try to post little updates here throughout the show... wish me luck! All the very best everyone, take care, John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 13:28:28 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Sat Jan 24 13:28:31 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON 2009! In-Reply-To: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> References: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901241328k7920e520g743770f4237fadc7@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, John! Thanks for the update, and I can't wait to see the newest offerings from Tucson. If you're only getting a little weather down there, you've got it made, since here in CentCal we're on our 5th consecutive day of Seattle style weather, cold & drippy (by our standards.) Please let us know when (and where) your pics will be posted, and your views on what "the latest trends" are this season. My retail (dept. store) "buyer" acquaintances say "pink & black", but when asked about stones & minerals it's "huh?" *lol* Personally, I think evaporates will be big this year! *grin!* Be Well, and sell, sell, SELL! *grin!* Kris Lapidary Specialties Blog: R&R Rockhound On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:00 PM, John & Gloria Cornish wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I was in Quartzite yesterday and visited the Desert Gardens Show. I > wandered through quite quickly as usual not seeing much. But, that may be > due to the fact that I got very little sleep the night before and started my > drive east to Quartzite at 4:45 a.m.! Two mega long days of driving! > > At Quartzite, I found a lady who had some very nice dinosaur bone for sale. > I snapped off several photos and will share these in my report upcoming. > While there, I returned a broken Arkansas digging bar which had snapped > through an inch thick section of steel! Hopefully, the new bar replacing it > will be a tad bit stronger!! > > As I write, I'm in Tucson and will check into my room at the Inn Suites > tomorrow and then my adventure will truly begin. I'm being a tourist today > and only stopped at one place, the mineral dealership of Superb Minerals. > They have a brand new building stocked to the rafters (a small exaggeration > only) and are open and already conducting business. I took a dozen or two > photos of some of the real killers they are offering this year and know > you'll as equally be impressed with their treasures. Apophyllites, calcites > and a plethora of zeolite goodies. They even had one room filled exclusively > with MONSTER-SIZED specimens all exceeding several feet and very impressive. > > It is raining off and on here today and the temperatures are comfortable by > NW standards. I'll try to post little updates here throughout the show... > wish me luck! All the very best everyone, take care, > > John > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cornish at tfon.com Sat Jan 24 19:24:05 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John & Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Jan 24 19:26:37 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON!! Message-ID: <200901241924.AA1949106288@tfon.com> Hi Everyone, It's 7:58 pm as I write here at the Inn Suites. In the back round the wailing cries of bagpipes surrealy fill the air. A local Scottish group is celebrating with music, singing, dancing and haggis! While a private affair, the music carries throughout the lobby area. I checked in today. Stripping the room down is always the first priority. Then come the display cases. Here we hit a small glitch and a broken window resulted. Thankfully the guys had this fixed without delay and we were off and flying like nothing had happened. Afterwards, I made a run for food, both from the restaurant and from the grocery store. Then back here and I've been cleaning glass ever since. This is the ultimate drudgery of the show and takes sooo long to do. But, with it behind me, next will come the minerals and the room will begin to shine! There are only a few other dealers here that I've seen and a few buyers as well. Ol' Howard down the way made his first sell today and he was all smiles. The weather here was awesome today, sunny and in the 70's. Well, that's about it for now. The bagpipes are switching back and forth between them and a group of fluters and violinists. It'll be a grand festive time here this evening. More soon. Have a terrific weekend. All the very best, John ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Jan 25 03:56:08 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Jan 25 03:57:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON!! References: <200901241924.AA1949106288@tfon.com> Message-ID: Keep the updates coming John! Vicarious is all we've got here in 12 degree, snowed-in Idaho. John Siebel Santa, ID From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 25 08:14:28 2009 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Jan 25 08:17:57 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Brazilian Christmas References: <9F01D7BF09C34C618499A4DA67B0A90E@LarryRush> <102D6D7BABF64B58A0B24287CAE497B4@LarryRush> Message-ID: <6CDCE80510CE4B29BE0395A06C8D583C@LarryRush> I recently got a nice "thank you" with photos from my Brazilian mineral friend showing his son with the Christmas gifts you all were so generous to send him. It is very gratifying to know how giving and caring you all were to send things to this boy, who would not have had Christmas gifts without your kindness. I hope the warmth of this memory and spirit will remain with you for all of this year!! BTW, this young man (the father) is trying to sell specimens from Minas Gerais to supplement the income from his new, low paying job. If anyone is looking for anything from MG, feel free to contact Geraldo, who has access to many of the producing pegmatites there. (geraldoalvim@gmail.com) And if anyone wants to see the pics of this boy, click: http://picasaweb.google.com/LarryRush2/Geraldo A belated Merry Christmas in the best sense of the phrase!! Larry Rush From jerrybs at frii.com Sun Jan 25 10:18:13 2009 From: jerrybs at frii.com (jerrybs@frii.com) Date: Sun Jan 25 10:18:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh In-Reply-To: <831c9ad10901241328k7920e520g743770f4237fadc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com> <831c9ad10901241328k7920e520g743770f4237fadc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <37783.91.103.25.84.1232907493.squirrel@users.frii.com> I'm currently in Armenia for work and had a little time to go to the outdoor market today. I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of jewelry dealers that had a few rocks. One caught my attention that I had not seen before. The dealer said it was szhungit from Russia. It has a concoidal fracture and a luster similar to raw hematite. There were only small pieces available so I didn't get any. Luckily I didn't, check out http://www.shungite.com/Index.html Jerry Sorensen WA From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Jan 25 10:44:58 2009 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Jan 25 10:44:56 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh References: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com><831c9ad10901241328k7920e520g743770f4237fadc7@mail.gmail.com> <37783.91.103.25.84.1232907493.squirrel@users.frii.com> Message-ID: <7E0FCF725A0B4483BF411F0451B196B6@Junior> Amusing metaphysical properties aside, shungite is a rock that contains C-60, aka buckeyballs. Interesting stuff. T ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh > I'm currently in Armenia for work and had a little time to go to the > outdoor market today. I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of jewelry > dealers that had a few rocks. One caught my attention that I had not > seen before. The dealer said it was szhungit from Russia. It has a > concoidal fracture and a luster similar to raw hematite. There were only > small pieces available so I didn't get any. Luckily I didn't, check out > > http://www.shungite.com/Index.html > > Jerry Sorensen > WA > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Sun Jan 25 10:54:43 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Sun Jan 25 10:54:49 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh In-Reply-To: <7E0FCF725A0B4483BF411F0451B196B6@Junior> References: <200901231400.AA1830551682@tfon.com><831c9ad10901241328k7920e520g743770f4237fadc7@mail.gmail.com> <37783.91.103.25.84.1232907493.squirrel@users.frii.com> <7E0FCF725A0B4483BF411F0451B196B6@Junior> Message-ID: <56a84de28b2d07a82e516eb5518b3207@ptd.net> Yep, it's one of the more interesting of the naturally occurring hydrocarbons (in this case, mostly carbon -- the stuff looks a lot like anthracite coal). I obtained a large specimen years ago and am quite glad I did. It's assumed pride of place with all the rest of such oddball stuff: gilsonite, wurtzilite, tabbyite, elaterite, asphaltite, etc. In geological terms shungite is one of the most thermally mature hydrocarbons and in some specimens is intergrown with sulfides, making for an attractive (to some eyes) combination. Some of us mineral collectors go a little beyond just minerals...OK, we're weird. Cheers- Earl On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:44:58 -0500, "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > Amusing metaphysical properties aside, shungite is a rock that contains > C-60, aka buckeyballs. Interesting stuff. > > T > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:18 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh > > >> I'm currently in Armenia for work and had a little time to go to the >> outdoor market today. I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of >> jewelry >> dealers that had a few rocks. One caught my attention that I had not >> seen before. The dealer said it was szhungit from Russia. It has a >> concoidal fracture and a luster similar to raw hematite. There were only >> small pieces available so I didn't get any. Luckily I didn't, check out >> >> http://www.shungite.com/Index.html >> >> Jerry Sorensen >> WA >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Jan 25 11:12:11 2009 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 25 11:12:19 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] shungite (was a good laugh) Message-ID: Yes, shungite is real unusual stuff, I never tried to get a sample or just have never came across one, wish I had. (Just shows as usual, it's all "in the eye of the beholder".) I'm not surprised, of course, that Earl has some! This has always been considered of enigmatic origin; I think some may have hypothesized some type of extraterrestrial (impact) connected origin, but I don't think that has proved out. It evidently occurs in quite large quantities and is used industrially as a carbon raw material. And of course, yes, the new-age-ies (apologies to any on the List who are that) think it has great metaphysical properties. I search turned up this good article describing it and its interpreted origin: _http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V90-49JHM38-4&_use r=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_ur lVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=165498f8af166682672dbd7a3edc5313_ (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V90-49JHM38-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt= &_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid =10&md5=165498f8af166682672dbd7a3edc5313) from Ore Geology Reviews, volume 24, issues 1-2, January 2004, Pages 135-154 A giant Palaeoproterozoic deposit of shungite in NW Russia: genesis and practical applications V. A. Melezhika, M. M. Filippov, and A. E. Romashkin "Occurrences of 2.0 Ga, mature organic material from the Lake Onega area, NW Russia, constitute one of the most remarkable accumulations of organic carbon from the Palaeoproterozoic. The deposit occurs in a 1000-m sedimentary-volcanic succession developed over an area of 9000 km2 with an estimated total carbon reserve exceeding 25?1010 tonnes. The organic material occurs in the form of the mineraloid, shungite, which is a black, non-crystalline, semi-metallic material that contains>98 wt.% C. The shungite-bearing rocks were accumulated within a volcanic continental rift setting, in a non-euxinic, brackish-water, lagoonal environment developed on the rifted margin of the Archaean craton. The occurrences of shungite-bearing rocks represent a combination of a petrified oil field, petrified organosiliceous diapirs and oil spills. These are exemplified by three types of deposit: (i) in situ stratified, (ii) migrated diapirs and (iii) redeposited clastic. In situ stratified deposits are composed of metamorphosed oil shales (<50 wt.% C), rocks containing autochthonous kerogen residue and allochthonous organic matter (50?75 wt.% C) and migrated bitumen, originally liquid hydrocarbons (>80 wt.% C). Diapiric deposits form non-stratified, cupolas or mushroom-shaped bodies composed of shungite containing 35?75 wt.% SiO2 and 20?55 wt.% C. These are considered to represent organosiliceous rocks, originally gels or mud. The shungite rocks show abundant shrinkage cracks, cryptic fluidal textures and brecciation caused by multiple fluidisation processes. The current data are consistent with either diapiric or mud-volcanic origins. Occurrences of clastic shungite are hosted by lacustrine volcanoclastic greywackes deposited from turbiditic flows. Shungite occurs in rocks as <1 mm to 20 cm clasts of lustrous shungite that probably represent redeposited, oxidised oil derived from oil spills. Shungite has a heterogeneous molecular structure in which carbon occurs as 10 nm globules irregularly distributed within carbon showing no structure. The unusual physicochemical and structural properties of shungite are used in diverse industrial and environmental applications including metallurgy, water purification, thermolysis and organosynthesis of cyclic hydrocarbons. Shungite is an effective sorbent for removal of organic and inorganic substances, pathogenic bacteria and heavy metals from contaminated water." Pete In a message dated 1/25/2009 11:55:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, everbeek@ptd.net writes: Yep, it's one of the more interesting of the naturally occurring hydrocarbons (in this case, mostly carbon -- the stuff looks a lot like anthracite coal). I obtained a large specimen years ago and am quite glad I did. It's assumed pride of place with all the rest of such oddball stuff: gilsonite, wurtzilite, tabbyite, elaterite, asphaltite, etc. In geological terms shungite is one of the most thermally mature hydrocarbons and in some specimens is intergrown with sulfides, making for an attractive (to some eyes) combination. Some of us mineral collectors go a little beyond just minerals...OK, we're weird. Cheers- Earl On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:44:58 -0500, "Tim Jokela Jr." wrote: > Amusing metaphysical properties aside, shungite is a rock that contains > C-60, aka buckeyballs. Interesting stuff. > > T > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:18 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] good laugh > > >> I'm currently in Armenia for work and had a little time to go to the >> outdoor market today. I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of >> jewelry >> dealers that had a few rocks. One caught my attention that I had not >> seen before. The dealer said it was szhungit from Russia. It has a >> concoidal fracture and a luster similar to raw hematite. There were only >> small pieces available so I didn't get any. Luckily I didn't, check out >> >> http://www.shungite.com/Index.html >> >> Jerry Sorensen >> WA >> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 25 18:07:39 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 25 18:06:38 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Save the date for the Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club Show Message-ID: <1B611766-EB4E-11DD-AB8D-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> The Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club of Wyoming, MI, will be holding their 34th Annual Show on April 9, 10, and 11, 2009. The show will be held at Rogers Plaza Mall in Wyoming, MI. The Mall is about 1/4 mile west of the US-131 28th Street exit, on the south side of 28th Street. Parking and admission are free. We will be having exhibits, demonstrations, a children's section, and about a dozen dealers. Save the dates. I hope to see you at the Show. Kreigh From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Jan 25 18:55:52 2009 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (marilyn travis) Date: Sun Jan 25 18:55:52 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON!! References: <200901241924.AA1949106288@tfon.com> Message-ID: See you there John. I will be in town the 31st. Steve Travis I am sooo excited ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Gloria Cornish" To: Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:24 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON!! > Hi Everyone, > > It's 7:58 pm as I write here at the Inn Suites. In the back round the > wailing cries of bagpipes surrealy fill the air. A local Scottish group is > celebrating with music, singing, dancing and haggis! While a private > affair, the music carries throughout the lobby area. > > I checked in today. Stripping the room down is always the first priority. > Then come the display cases. Here we hit a small glitch and a broken > window resulted. Thankfully the guys had this fixed without delay and we > were off and flying like nothing had happened. Afterwards, I made a run > for food, both from the restaurant and from the grocery store. Then back > here and I've been cleaning glass ever since. This is the ultimate > drudgery of the show and takes sooo long to do. But, with it behind me, > next will come the minerals and the room will begin to shine! > > There are only a few other dealers here that I've seen and a few buyers as > well. Ol' Howard down the way made his first sell today and he was all > smiles. > > The weather here was awesome today, sunny and in the 70's. Well, that's > about it for now. The bagpipes are switching back and forth between them > and a group of fluters and violinists. It'll be a grand festive time here > this evening. More soon. Have a terrific weekend. All the very best, > > John > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From cornish at tfon.com Sun Jan 25 19:30:49 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John & Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 25 19:33:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON! Message-ID: <200901251930.AA1376059446@tfon.com> Hi Everyone, It's a bit after 8 pm as I start this note. I've just returned from dinner with friends at one of the local Mexican food restaurants. It was a good meal and I ordered a second dinner to eat in the room tomorrow. The room looks a lot more colorful this evening, all a glitter in soft pretty pink. I've several shelves filled and will be back at it again tomorrow morning. As predicted in my last report, I finished cleaning the last of the glass shelves this morning and then the rocks came out. And soon there after, folks started coming into the room. Fun! Lots more people have arrived today and the parking lot was a'buzz with display cases being delivered. This is the part I love, everyone will be so frantic to set up while mine own experience has been so much more relaxed. A little goes a long way some times! Other than my own, the only rocks I've seen thus far are in friend Joe Dorris's room. As many of you know, Joe mines Amazonite and Smoky Quartz from claims he owns in Colorado. This year his premier specimen is a monster well over a foot wide and tall. I'll try to get a photo of it later when he's a bit less busy. What a rock!! It was another gorgeous day here today, it felt really nice when I went outside and took a break from the room. And there you have it. More when next I get the chance. I've a shipment coming in tomorrow which I'm looking forward to and I know the shelves will look a lot more filled come this time tomorrow evening. Take care and all the very best, John ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Jan 27 07:03:27 2009 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 07:03:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> Hi All, The following was just sent to me; does anyone on the list want to clarify this? I thought we had just talked about it. Is this a new twist or the same old same old? thanks dave Hello Dave, At tonight's Northern Virginia Mineral meeting, Jan 26, Congressman (and longtime Rockhound) John Culberson (Houston, Texas) stopped by at the onset of our meeting to inform us that there was a ominous piece of legislation, S 22, moving on a very fast track in Congress. It has already passed the Senate and it is loaded with all sorts of goodies for politicians and their constituents. Lurking within this bill is a Paleontology section that would make it illegal for anyone to pick up a fossil found on any Federal land!! The penalties are onerous, 5 yrs and $10,000 fine. Only pre approved professional paleontologists (universities and museum) would ever be given permits. According to Culberson, almost no one in Congress is aware of this?fossil collecting restriction in this bill and they definitely do not realize the ramifications. Also, the bill states that if you owned private property on which fossils were being found, these same approved paleontologists could come on to your property and lay claim the fossils found on your private land. This portion of S 22 could single-handedly destroy the fossil collecting hobby and harshly step on private property rights as well. It is20also well known fact that most of the important fossil finds in this country were made by amateur paleontologists. Culberson stressed that this bill could be coming to a vote any day now!? Perhaps within 48-72 hrs !! The key is to urge Congressmen to request that the Paleontology section be stripped out of S 22. John Culberson strongly urged our membership to spread the word to Mineral clubs around the country ASAP so as to generate protest emails to Congessmen?all over?the country as well as urging us to contact our own Congressman tomorrow if possible. He stressed that contacting mineral clubs across the country was the most important task and urging them to spread the word so that Congessmen all across the country get emails and phone calls regarding this and not just the handful of congressman in our area. Thanks very much for any actions you take in this matter. Sincerely, Tom Taaffe From cornish at tfon.com Tue Jan 27 07:58:54 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John & Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:01:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON! Message-ID: <200901270758.AA2148663420@tfon.com> Hi Everyone, Thanks so much, those of you who've written. Just a quick note... It was chilly last night and will be under 60 degrees here today with a breeze. I've already had my breakfast, complimentary from the folks here at Inn Suites and am ready. I've some basic set-up scenarios to continue through, but I'm close. I explored last night, looking for open rooms, and found one of a Russian dealer whose specimens were mainly polished slabs and spheres of rarer native materials. Among his treasures were several examples of kyanite. I've friends who collect this mineral and one of them, Everett Harrington is visiting the show here for the first time this year. In an earlier conversation, he'd mentioned his hope to acquire a Swiss specimen of kyanite in combination with staurolite. I inquired and was pleasantly surprised to find this gentleman had Russian specimens in his inventory with both present. I'll share the room number with Everett when he gets to town. Ya just never know what you'll find! Well, it's getting busier out in the Lobby and I best be moving on so someone else can use the terminal. From Tucson, have a great day everyone and all the very best! John ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Jan 27 08:04:20 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:04:26 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! In-Reply-To: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000b01c98098$ea37ce80$bea76b80$@com> This is simply not true. The relevant text of the bill has been posted on this list and it contains nothing about fossil invertebrate, plant, or vertebrate collecting. The Paleontological Resources Preservation Act incorporated into this bill specifically allows the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture (depends upon whose land is involved) to permit (not disallow) ?casual collecting? (i.e, amateur) of invertebrate and plant fossils. It allows for penalties to be established for commercial collecting of any fossils, which is already prohibited. Period. No more, and no less. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:03 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! Hi All, The following was just sent to me; does anyone on the list want to clarify this? I thought we had just talked about it. Is this a new twist or the same old same old? thanks dave Hello Dave, At tonight's Northern Virginia Mineral meeting, Jan 26, Congressman (and longtime Rockhound) John Culberson (Houston, Texas) stopped by at the onset of our meeting to inform us that there was a ominous piece of legislation, S 22, moving on a very fast track in Congress. It has already passed the Senate and it is loaded with all sorts of goodies for politicians and their constituents. Lurking within this bill is a Paleontology section that would make it illegal for anyone to pick up a fossil found on any Federal land!! The penalties are onerous, 5 yrs and $10,000 fine. Only pre approved professional paleontologists (universities and museum) would ever be given permits. According to Culberson, almost no one in Congress is aware of this fossil collecting restriction in this bill and they definitely do not realize the ramifications. Also, the bill states that if you owned private property on which fossils were being found, these same approved paleontologists could come on to your property and lay claim the fossils found on your private land. This portion of S 22 could single-handedly destroy the fossil collecting hobby and harshly step on private property rights as well. It is20also well known fact that most of the important fossil finds in this country were made by amateur paleontologists. Culberson stressed that this bill could be coming to a vote any day now! Perhaps within 48-72 hrs !! The key is to urge Congressmen to request that the Paleontology section be stripped out of S 22. John Culberson strongly urged our membership to spread the word to Mineral clubs around the country ASAP so as to generate protest emails to Congessmen all over the country as well as urging us to contact our own Congressman tomorrow if possible. He stressed that contacting mineral clubs across the country was the most important task and urging them to spread the word so that Congessmen all across the country get emails and phone calls regarding this and not just the handful of congressman in our area. Thanks very much for any actions you take in this matter. Sincerely, Tom Taaffe -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Tue Jan 27 08:40:19 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 08:40:50 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! In-Reply-To: <000b01c98098$ea37ce80$bea76b80$@com> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> <000b01c98098$ea37ce80$bea76b80$@com> Message-ID: <8CB4EB5131C7BB2-1280-91F@WEBMAIL-DY40.sysops.aol.com> I just looked up the text of the Bill, S 22, online, the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009.? It took a bit of searching to figure out how to find it.? It is online at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.22: (P.S., you'll see there are two versions listed; in wonderful incomprehensible language, it explains that the second version is the one, "Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by Senate" I looked up "engrossed" in an online dictionary; one definition of it is "To write or print the final draft of an official document".? So, OK, I think we should be looking at the "engrossed" version. (no snide comments, please!) It is a huge bill, will sections about all sorts of public land areas and land management policies.? One item I noticed in it that I'd not heard of before, is about designation of a "Prehistoric Trackways National Monument", in the Robledo Mountains, southern New Mexico; that is section "Subtitle B" within Title II of?the bill. Anyway, Paleontological Resources Preservation? is Title VI, Subtitle D, Sections 6301 to 6312?within the proposed bill.? Yes, it appears to be the same text and provisions that we have seen before. I'll note that in the section on penalties (sec. 6306, pasted in below), under (1) and (2) it says these may not be done "unless such activity is conducted in accordance with this subtitle" (in #1) and "if in violation of it" (in #2); but in subparagraph (3), there is no "if" or "unless" attached, as I read it, it simply says that selling or purchasing a "fossil resource" excavated from federal land is a crime, period, I don't see any exceptions stated to this; it doesn't say "illegally excavated", just? "excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received from Federal land". Of course, I believe that this is the "official" policy in effect now, am I not right, whether or not it is formalized in any act of congress?? That although people are presently allowed to casually collect nonvertebrate fossils on public land, they are strictly for "personal use" and it is officially illegal to sell them.? Not that this is normally ever enforced for the average person, except in special "high visibility" situations.? A rockhound who collects a piece of petrified wood on public land and sells it at his mineral club's silent auction will almost certainly not be prosecuted.? But he could be, I gather. (I'm not saying that think any of this is right or necessary, you understand, I'm just saying what I believe is how the present public land regulations are being enforced.) Pete Modreski (here's the text of that section of the SEC. 6306. PROHIBITED ACTS; CRIMINAL PENALTIES. (a) In General- A person may not-- (1) excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any paleontological resources located on Federal land unless such activity is conducted in accordance with this subtitle; (2) exchange, tr ansport, export, receive, or offer to exchange, transport, export, or receive any paleontological resource if the person knew or should have known such resource to have been excavated or removed from Federal land in violation of any provisions, rule, regulation, law, ordinance, or permit in effect under Federal law, including this subtitle; or (3) sell or purchase or offer to sell or purchase any paleontological resource if the person knew or should have known such resource to have been excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received from Federal land. -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 9:04 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! This is simply not true. The relevant text of the bill has been posted on this ist and it contains nothing about fossil invertebrate, plant, or vertebrate ollecting. The Paleontological Resources Preservation Act incorporated into his bill specifically allows the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture depends upon whose land is involved) to permit (not disallow) ?casual ollecting? (i.e, amateur) of invertebrate and plant fossils. It allows for enalties to be established for commercial collecting of any fossils, which is lready prohibited. Period. No more, and no less. Tim Fisher re-ROCK-On! mail address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Origi nal Message----- rom: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] n Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com ent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:03 AM o: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com ubject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting t risk !!! Hi All, The following was just sent to me; does anyone on the list want o clarify this? I thought we had just talked about it. Is this a new wist or the same old same old? hanks dave ello Dave, At tonight's Northern Virginia Mineral meeting, Jan 26, Congressman and longtime Rockhound) John Culberson (Houston, Texas) stopped by at he onset of our meeting to inform us that there was a ominous piece of egislation, S 22, moving on a very fast track in Congress. It has lready passed the Senate and it is loaded with all sorts of goodies or politicians and their constituents. Lurking within this bill is a Paleontology section that would make it llegal for anyone to pick up a fossil found on any Federal land!! The enalties are onerous, 5 yrs and $10,000 fine. Only pre approved rofessional paleontologists (universities and museum) would ever be iven permits. According to Culberson, almost no one in Congress is aware of his fossil collecting restriction in this bill and they definitely do ot realize the ramifications. Also, the bill states that if you owned private property on which ossils were being found, these same approved paleontologists could ome on to your property and lay claim the fossils found on your rivate land. This portion of S 22 could single-handedly destroy the fossil ollecting hobby and harshly step on private property rights as well. It is20also well known fact that most of the important fossil finds in his country were made by amateur paleontologists. Culberson stressed that this bill could be coming to a vote any day ow! Perhaps within 48-72 hrs !! The key is to urge Congressmen to request that the Paleontology section e stripped out of S 22. John Culberson strongly urged our membership to spread the word to ineral clubs around the country ASAP so as to generate protest emails o Congessmen all over the country as well as urging us to contact our wn Congressman tomorrow if possible. He stressed that contacting mineral clubs across the country was the ost important task and urging them to spread the word so that ongessmen all across the country get emails and phone calls regarding his and not just the handful of congressman in our area. Thanks very much for any actions you take in this matter. incerely, om Taaffe -- ______________________________________________ ockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ubscription Services: ttp://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ist Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: ttp://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html - ______________________________________________ ockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ubscription Services: ttp://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ist Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: ttp://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/i ndex.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From OnyxCollector at aol.com Tue Jan 27 09:10:01 2009 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 27 09:10:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at... Message-ID: I wonder if this will affect the fish fossil quarries around Kemmerer, Wyoming........ they're all on BLM land, after all, and I see no exceptions in this bill. **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Jan 27 09:25:46 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Jan 27 09:25:57 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! In-Reply-To: <8CB4EB5131C7BB2-1280-91F@WEBMAIL-DY40.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> <000b01c98098$ea37ce80$bea76b80$@com> <8CB4EB5131C7BB2-1280-91F@WEBMAIL-DY40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001101c980a4$4aab4520$e001cf60$@com> Yes Pete, the language merely gives the Secretaries the authority to do, for the entirety of the BLM & FS or for individual forests/resource areas/etc., what a few regional offices (but by no means all) have already have done under "administrative rules". As to the implications to commercial collectors, I see no such language in S-22. The language posted is from the old PRPA, which is not incorporated into the bill, even by reference, as far as I can tell. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pmodreski@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:40 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! I just looked up the text of the Bill, S 22, online, the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009. It took a bit of searching to figure out how to find it. It is online at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.22: (P.S., you'll see there are two versions listed; in wonderful incomprehensible language, it explains that the second version is the one, "Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by Senate" I looked up "engrossed" in an online dictionary; one definition of it is "To write or print the final draft of an official document". So, OK, I think we should be looking at the "engrossed" version. (no snide comments, please!) It is a huge bill, will sections about all sorts of public land areas and land management policies. One item I noticed in it that I'd not heard of before, is about designation of a "Prehistoric Trackways National Monument", in the Robledo Mountains, southern New Mexico; that is section "Subtitle B" within Title II of the bill. Anyway, Paleontological Resources Preservation is Title VI, Subtitle D, Sections 6301 to 6312 within the proposed bill. Yes, it appears to be the same text and provisions that we have seen before. I'll note that in the section on penalties (sec. 6306, pasted in below), under (1) and (2) it says these may not be done "unless such activity is conducted in accordance with this subtitle" (in #1) and "if in violation of it" (in #2); but in subparagraph (3), there is no "if" or "unless" attached, as I read it, it simply says that selling or purchasing a "fossil resource" excavated from federal land is a crime, period, I don't see any exceptions stated to this; it doesn't say "illegally excavated", just "excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received from Federal land". Of course, I believe that this is the "official" policy in effect now, am I not right, whether or not it is formalized in any act of congress? That although people are presently allowed to casually collect nonvertebrate fossils on public land, they are strictly for "personal use" and it is officially illegal to sell them. Not that this is normally ever enforced for the average person, except in special "high visibility" situations. A rockhound who collects a piece of petrified wood on public land and sells it at his mineral club's silent auction will almost certainly not be prosecuted. But he could be, I gather. (I'm not saying that think any of this is right or necessary, you understand, I'm just saying what I believe is how the present public land regulations are being enforced.) Pete Modreski (here's the text of that section of the SEC. 6306. PROHIBITED ACTS; CRIMINAL PENALTIES. (a) In General- A person may not-- (1) excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any paleontological resources located on Federal land unless such activity is conducted in accordance with this subtitle; (2) exchange, tr ansport, export, receive, or offer to exchange, transport, export, or receive any paleontological resource if the person knew or should have known such resource to have been excavated or removed from Federal land in violation of any provisions, rule, regulation, law, ordinance, or permit in effect under Federal law, including this subtitle; or (3) sell or purchase or offer to sell or purchase any paleontological resource if the person knew or should have known such resource to have been excavated, removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported, or received from Federal land. -----Original Message----- From: Tim To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 9:04 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! This is simply not true. The relevant text of the bill has been posted on this ist and it contains nothing about fossil invertebrate, plant, or vertebrate ollecting. The Paleontological Resources Preservation Act incorporated into his bill specifically allows the Secretaries of the Interior and Agriculture depends upon whose land is involved) to permit (not disallow) ?casual ollecting? (i.e, amateur) of invertebrate and plant fossils. It allows for enalties to be established for commercial collecting of any fossils, which is lready prohibited. Period. No more, and no less. Tim Fisher re-ROCK-On! mail address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Origi nal Message----- rom: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] n Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com ent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:03 AM o: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com ubject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting t risk !!! Hi All, The following was just sent to me; does anyone on the list want o clarify this? I thought we had just talked about it. Is this a new wist or the same old same old? hanks dave ello Dave, At tonight's Northern Virginia Mineral meeting, Jan 26, Congressman and longtime Rockhound) John Culberson (Houston, Texas) stopped by at he onset of our meeting to inform us that there was a ominous piece of egislation, S 22, moving on a very fast track in Congress. It has lready passed the Senate and it is loaded with all sorts of goodies or politicians and their constituents. Lurking within this bill is a Paleontology section that would make it llegal for anyone to pick up a fossil found on any Federal land!! The enalties are onerous, 5 yrs and $10,000 fine. Only pre approved rofessional paleontologists (universities and museum) would ever be iven permits. According to Culberson, almost no one in Congress is aware of his fossil collecting restriction in this bill and they definitely do ot realize the ramifications. Also, the bill states that if you owned private property on which ossils were being found, these same approved paleontologists could ome on to your property and lay claim the fossils found on your rivate land. This portion of S 22 could single-handedly destroy the fossil ollecting hobby and harshly step on private property rights as well. It is20also well known fact that most of the important fossil finds in his country were made by amateur paleontologists. Culberson stressed that this bill could be coming to a vote any day ow! Perhaps within 48-72 hrs !! The key is to urge Congressmen to request that the Paleontology section e stripped out of S 22. John Culberson strongly urged our membership to spread the word to ineral clubs around the country ASAP so as to generate protest emails o Congessmen all over the country as well as urging us to contact our wn Congressman tomorrow if possible. He stressed that contacting mineral clubs across the country was the ost important task and urging them to spread the word so that ongessmen all across the country get emails and phone calls regarding his and not just the handful of congressman in our area. Thanks very much for any actions you take in this matter. incerely, om Taaffe -- ______________________________________________ ockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ubscription Services: ttp://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ist Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: ttp://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html - ______________________________________________ ockhounds@drizzle Mailing List ubscription Services: ttp://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ist Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: ttp://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/i ndex.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Jan 27 09:28:04 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Tue Jan 27 09:28:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c980a4$9d01c2e0$d70548a0$@com> It will not, and all the currently operating quarries are on the operator's own land or are leased from private landowners, I can assure you. To my knowledge the BLM has never leased the rights to vertebrate fossils to any commercial operation in the green River Fm. in the vicinity of Kemmerer WY. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of OnyxCollector@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:10 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at... I wonder if this will affect the fish fossil quarries around Kemmerer, Wyoming........ they're all on BLM land, after all, and I see no exceptions in this bill. **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From folmstead at rcn.com Tue Jan 27 16:27:17 2009 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Tue Jan 27 16:27:39 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 In-Reply-To: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> Message-ID: <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> > > > Wendell M... wrote: > >> Hello > ..... >> >> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: >> >> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources >> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of >> Representatives late last year. Well, the bill is back this >> Congress! This time, the bill's language is included in S.22, the >> Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009. The bill is a >> compilation of hundreds of public lands bills and is being pushed >> through quickly and without debate by Democrat leadership. S.22 has >> already been passed by the Senate and is awaiting action in the House >> - which could happen as early as today or the next few days! The >> bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow for >> amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language >> will be included. >> >> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is >> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without >> controversy. >> >> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in >> S. 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. >> >> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on >> federal lands with the exception of "casual collecting." >> 2. It requires that vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are >> the property of the U.S. Government. >> 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some fossil >> activities that are quite commonplace. >> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. >> 5. The federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture >> for vehicles, equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these >> new restrictions. >> 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn private land with >> funds seized under this act. >> >> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of >> those who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from >> being able to do so. This will reduce the fossils available for >> museums and classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not >> operating for profit. >> >> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. >> >> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have >> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this >> bill can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. >> Section number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL >> RESOURCES." >> >> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your >> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the >> section 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go >> to , plug in your state and >> ZIP code, and click "Contact my representative". You will see the >> name, address and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it >> recommend that you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your >> representative's E Mail address at >> . DO IT NOW. >> >> Cheerio, Wendell > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcessna at nist.gov Tue Jan 27 17:20:52 2009 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Tue Jan 27 17:21:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] S 22 Legislation has passed the Senate, Fossil Collecting at risk !!! In-Reply-To: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090127201140.0226ee60@nist.gov> To Clarify, Yes, we did just talk about the same text. At that point it was in H.R.544, which was killed in committee. That same text has be cut & pasted into S.22. S.22 is an omnibus bill and the "Preservation of Paleontological Resources" is a very small part of it. S.22 has passed the Senate and is pending in the House. It is expected to be decided upon within 48 hrs. People can make up their own minds about whether it is a good idea to hand a big stick to someone and hope he doesn't hit you with it. Cheers, Jeff At 10:03 AM 1/27/2009, you wrote: >Hi All, > The following was just sent to me; does anyone on the list want >to clarify this? I thought we had just talked about it. Is this a new >twist or the same old same old? >thanks dave > > >Hello Dave, > >At tonight's Northern Virginia Mineral meeting, >Jan 26, Congressman (and longtime Rockhound) >John Culberson (Houston, Texas) stopped by at >the onset of our meeting to inform us that there >was a ominous piece of legislation, S 22, moving >on a very fast track in Congress. It has already >passed the Senate and it is loaded with all >sorts of goodies for politicians and their constituents. > >Lurking within this bill is a Paleontology >section that would make it illegal for anyone to >pick up a fossil found on any Federal land!! The >penalties are onerous, 5 yrs and $10,000 fine. >Only pre approved professional paleontologists >(universities and museum) would ever be given permits. > >According to Culberson, almost no one in >Congress is aware of this? fossil collecting >restriction in this bill and they definitely do not realize the ramifications. > >Also, the bill states that if you owned private >property on which fossils were being found, >these same approved paleontologists could come >on to your property and lay claim the fossils found on your private land. > >This portion of S 22 could single-handedly >destroy the fossil collecting hobby and harshly >step on private property rights as well. > >It is20also well known fact that most of the >important fossil finds in this country were made by amateur paleontologists. > >Culberson stressed that this bill could be >coming to a vote any day now!? Perhaps within 48-72 hrs !! > >The key is to urge Congressmen to request that >the Paleontology section be stripped out of S 22. > >John Culberson strongly urged our membership to >spread the word to Mineral clubs around the >country ASAP so as to generate protest emails to >Congessmen? all over? the country as well as >urging us to contact our own Congressman tomorrow if possible. > >He stressed that contacting mineral clubs across >the country was the most important task and >urging them to spread the word so that >Congessmen all across the country get emails and >phone calls regarding this and not just the handful of congressman in our area. > >Thanks very much for any actions you take in this matter. >Sincerely, >Tom Taaffe > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jan 28 18:28:37 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jan 28 18:29:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090127201140.0226ee60@nist.gov> Message-ID: <179511A88ABE4E73993AFA76AAABF911@Notebook> Hi Folks, I'm looking at a lovely item from Mill Creek Quarry, OR. It has calcite and quartz on pink stilbite. Some of the quartz appears as scepters but most of it appears as radiating clusters forming spheroids about 1cm in diameter. Can anyone give me the proper term for this habit? Bill Tomkins (Hi Bill!) refers to this as, "Radiating druse" but admits he can't describe it beyond that. Thanks - John From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Jan 28 18:51:17 2009 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Jan 28 18:51:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology In-Reply-To: <179511A88ABE4E73993AFA76AAABF911@Notebook> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090127201140.0226ee60@nist.gov> <179511A88ABE4E73993AFA76AAABF911@Notebook> Message-ID: <439284E0-2912-4EA5-BD64-4D84129D31D8@heidelberg.edu> I'm not sure there is any "proper term" for this habit. Terms describing habits often apply to single crystals - stubby, prismatic, bladed, equant; rhombohedral, octahedral, pseudo-cubic, etc. There are also terms that apply to aggregates of crystals - whether they should be considered terms for habits is a subtle question, and I lean toward distinguishing between habits (of single crystals) and forms, for lack of a better word (of multi-crystal aggregates), such as botryoidal, drusy, stalagtitic, dendritic, spherical, etc. I think your description of your quartz is fine. Regards, Pete Richards On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:28 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I'm looking at a lovely item from Mill Creek Quarry, OR. It has > calcite and quartz on pink stilbite. Some of the quartz appears as > scepters but most of it appears as radiating clusters forming > spheroids about 1cm in diameter. Can anyone give me the proper term > for this habit? Bill Tomkins (Hi Bill!) refers to this as, > "Radiating druse" but admits he can't describe it beyond that. > > Thanks - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Jan 28 19:04:59 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Jan 28 19:05:03 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology In-Reply-To: <179511A88ABE4E73993AFA76AAABF911@Notebook> References: <8CB4EA78AFF7F94-E98-348@mblk-d28.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20090127201140.0226ee60@nist.gov> <179511A88ABE4E73993AFA76AAABF911@Notebook> Message-ID: <005c01c981be$5fb1d8b0$1f158a10$@com> I dunno but it looks way cool under a projection stereoscope! Makes me wish they were 10x as big LOL Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 6:29 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology Hi Folks, I'm looking at a lovely item from Mill Creek Quarry, OR. It has calcite and quartz on pink stilbite. Some of the quartz appears as scepters but most of it appears as radiating clusters forming spheroids about 1cm in diameter. Can anyone give me the proper term for this habit? Bill Tomkins (Hi Bill!) refers to this as, "Radiating druse" but admits he can't describe it beyond that. Thanks - John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Wed Jan 28 19:32:20 2009 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Wed Jan 28 19:32:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] What Happened to Arthur Court? Message-ID: <49812344.9080407@rochester.rr.com> Dear Rockhounds, Happy winter, everyone! More snow in upstate New York (again). Will it ever end?! Back in the 1970's, a coffee table book featuring the mineral collection of Arthur Court was published by Abrams company. Famous collections and their owners' names seem to pop up regularly in the various mineral publications. However, other than this particular book, I don't know that I have seen Arthur Court or his collection referred to anywhere. Does anyone know what happened to the collection? Is Mr. Court making the rounds in the mineral-collecting world? In advance, thank you all. Just a curiosity question. Warmly, Darryl Powell Manchester, NY From billtompkinscccc at comcast.net Wed Jan 28 22:21:05 2009 From: billtompkinscccc at comcast.net (billtompkinscccc@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jan 28 22:21:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology Message-ID: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> John- I looked up in my files and found the article written by Dr. Don Howard about the Mill Creek quarry is in the MicroProbe Vol. 8 #2, fall of 1995 issue. The same issue that has an article about the Coffin Butte quarry. In the article, Dr. Howard says this about the quartz: "Quartz was a later mineral that formed upon the stilbite. The quartz appears to have begun as glassy masses with a radiating structure. Such masses often exhibit a surface of very rough, fine points. Very often one or more larger crystals grow out of the top of these masses. In the case of groups, one crystal is usually larger then the rest, and the whole set shows parallel orientation. An occasional sceptter has been found. The terminations of the quartz are in the form of a pyramid of only three sides. The prism beneath starts out below the termination with three of the sides much better developed than the others. However, the sides tend to be somewhat rough and taper, so that the three well-developed sides narrow, and the poorly developed sides grow wider until at the bottom they dominate. Since most of the crystals radiate out from their base, the other termination is only occasionally visble, it is most easily studied in the scepters. These show that the other termination is also three-sided, but twisted 60 degrees from the termination at the top end. These crystals clearly show that quartz is a rhombohedral mineral rather than a true hexagonal one." Bill Tompkins ps. - the article is a PDF file that I can send to you if you contact me privately. > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:28 PM, John Siebel wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm looking at a lovely item from Mill Creek Quarry, OR. It has > > calcite and quartz on pink stilbite. Some of the quartz appears as > > scepters but most of it appears as radiating clusters forming > > spheroids about 1cm in diameter. Can anyone give me the proper term > > for this habit? Bill Tomkins (Hi Bill!) refers to this as, > > "Radiating druse" but admits he can't describe it beyond that. > > > > Thanks - John > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jan 28 22:51:58 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jan 28 22:53:09 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <85E22C35F4DB44E78884CF96C5A9DD5D@Notebook> Thanks Pete, "Spherical radiating quartz clusters" in the note field should cover it. Thanks Bill, You really kick butt when you come out of lurking mode! :-) Thanks Tim, It's time to borrow my neighbor's microscope and go exploring! Regards to all - John From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Jan 28 23:03:08 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Wed Jan 28 23:03:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology In-Reply-To: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com> Material I collected around 1995 has many more scepters than straight crystals radiating out from the bases. Mine also have a fair amount of black saponite that also radiates out from a central base. Maybe he had some of the lesser quality specimens :) John, quartz at Coffin Butte displays the same habit, only on a much larger scale. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of billtompkinscccc@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:21 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal Terminology John- I looked up in my files and found the article written by Dr. Don Howard about the Mill Creek quarry is in the MicroProbe Vol. 8 #2, fall of 1995 issue. The same issue that has an article about the Coffin Butte quarry. In the article, Dr. Howard says this about the quartz: "Quartz was a later mineral that formed upon the stilbite. The quartz appears to have begun as glassy masses with a radiating structure. Such masses often exhibit a surface of very rough, fine points. Very often one or more larger crystals grow out of the top of these masses. In the case of groups, one crystal is usually larger then the rest, and the whole set shows parallel orientation. An occasional sceptter has been found. The terminations of the quartz are in the form of a pyramid of only three sides. The prism beneath starts out below the termination with three of the sides much better developed than the others. However, the sides tend to be somewhat rough and taper, so that the three well-developed sides narrow, and the poorly developed sides grow wider until at the bottom they dominate. Since most of the crystals radiate out from their base, the other termination is only occasionally visble, it is most easily studied in the scepters. These show that the other termination is also three-sided, but twisted 60 degrees from the termination at the top end. These crystals clearly show that quartz is a rhombohedral mineral rather than a true hexagonal one." Bill Tompkins ps. - the article is a PDF file that I can send to you if you contact me privately. > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:28 PM, John Siebel wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm looking at a lovely item from Mill Creek Quarry, OR. It has > > calcite and quartz on pink stilbite. Some of the quartz appears as > > scepters but most of it appears as radiating clusters forming > > spheroids about 1cm in diameter. Can anyone give me the proper term > > for this habit? Bill Tomkins (Hi Bill!) refers to this as, > > "Radiating druse" but admits he can't describe it beyond that. > > > > Thanks - John > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jan 29 01:42:07 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Jan 29 01:43:23 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com> Message-ID: Kitty, I'd write you off list on this but others on the list may have an interest. A few years back I (and other List members) sent you teaching samples for your kids. You thanked me by sending various lavas from Puna District, Big Island, Hawaii that you had collected in 2003. All very cool, especially the iridescent ones! My problem, now that I am cataloging them, is that I lost the label for the coolest among them. It's a small piece of shiney black lava, sort of "bubbly" with a very delicate brown/gold froth attached. It also features a small "Lava Bomb" appendage. Can you give me any details on this puppy? Hope you and Bill are well and happy. John Santa, ID Where the pump is still frozen From cornish at tfon.com Thu Jan 29 07:43:31 2009 From: cornish at tfon.com (John & Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Jan 29 07:46:12 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON! Message-ID: <200901290743.AA44433582@tfon.com> Good morning Everyone, It's just after 8:30 as I begin this post. Outside while brisk, the sun is shining. Yesterday was a very busy day as I received the last of the inventory for the room. The last shipment arrived at 11:00 pm. I'll be working with it this morning and then with that completed, the room will be 100%. Lots of pretties. It was a slow day yesterday which was fine as it allowed me the time I needed to walk around and hang my flyers on the reader boards. With that task behind me, it was back to the room for more fun. I've still not had the chance to visit any of the other rooms. More are opening each day but it is obvious that there is a slow start to this years show. Both dealers and customers continue to be slow to arrive. More will open today and more folks will arrive to visit them. While a slow start, who knows on what note the show is going to end? I've been blessed and have already been included to one online show report which can be seen at the following link... http://trinityminerals.com/tucson2009/report1.shtml I'll try to get out some in the following days to fill these reports with more "meat and potatoes" so to speak. Still, in the end, I'm here! Welcome to Tucson! All the very best, take care, John ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 08:59:19 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 29 08:59:21 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Why glacial ice is blue Message-ID: Off a photography site but by a physicist. Interesting discussion of why glacial ice is blue: Gets a bit technical for a couple of paragraphs, but for those of you unfamiliar with Planck's constant don't worry he reverts to English soon after. BK -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcessna at nist.gov Thu Jan 29 09:10:05 2009 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Thu Jan 29 09:10:38 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] What Happened to Arthur Court? In-Reply-To: <49812344.9080407@rochester.rr.com> References: <49812344.9080407@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090129120851.026521d0@nist.gov> perhaps ... http://www.arthurcourt.com/ see, about us At 10:32 PM 1/28/2009, you wrote: >Dear Rockhounds, >Happy winter, everyone! More snow in upstate New York >(again). Will it ever end?! > >Back in the 1970's, a coffee table book featuring the mineral >collection of Arthur Court was published by Abrams company. Famous >collections and their owners' names seem to pop up regularly in the >various mineral publications. However, other than this particular >book, I don't know that I have seen Arthur Court or his collection >referred to anywhere. >Does anyone know what happened to the collection? Is Mr. Court >making the rounds in the mineral-collecting world? > >In advance, thank you all. Just a curiosity question. > >Warmly, >Darryl Powell >Manchester, NY >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From str4hler at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 09:19:42 2009 From: str4hler at gmail.com (str4hler) Date: Thu Jan 29 09:19:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Why glacial ice is blue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: thanks for the interesting link! Well, at least Blue Ice (http://www.blueice.gl/) was telling the right story when I was on their boat between blue icebergs :-) They even did fresh blue ice in our martini (shaken, not stirred of course). It bubbles nicely... :-) Cheers! Frank On 1/29/09, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Off a photography site but by a physicist. Interesting discussion of why > glacial ice is blue: > > > > Gets a bit technical for a couple of paragraphs, but for those of you > unfamiliar with Planck's constant don't worry he reverts to English soon > after. > > BK > > -- > > ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored > than the day." > > Vincent van Gogh > J Bryan Kr?mer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- the next great task for mankind is to slow down... From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Jan 29 16:55:38 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jan 29 16:55:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava In-Reply-To: References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com> Message-ID: <4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net> Hi John and List, The delicate brown/gold froth sounds like reticulite, see: http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/images/pglossary/reticulite.php http://flickr.com/photos/jonwiley/2841391609/in/set-72157607120212173/ (really good picture showing how it is usually found---under rocks where it is protected from being stepped on.) But without a picture I can't be sure about the rest. (That was six years ago, and you're talking to a senior citizen here ;-) ) It most likely came from the area near Mauna Ulu. If you google that name there are several sites including a You Tube video which shows steam still drifting from hot spots. The actual mountain is in the Volcanoes National Park, but there is a way to reach the far side without entering the park. This material (reticulite) occurs during fountaining, which Mauna Ulu did from 1969 to 1974. It often is found with small amounts of black glass attached, and is sometimes also iridescent. It is called a type of pumice, but pumice is rather tough and the bubbles that make it float on water are completely closed, so it will continue to float for a long time (or maybe forever). Reticulute's bubbles are more of a delicate mesh and will eventually fill with water and sink, and they will easily crush with too much pressure from your fingers. I've seen fist-sized balls of reticulite blow and bounce across the lava fields in the wind like tumbleweeds. They are extremely delicate, but hundreds of them are still to be seen since the fountaining stopped 35 years ago. I hope this helps. Maybe we'll see you this summer and I can be more specific. Aloha, Kitty John Siebel wrote: > Kitty, > > I'd write you off list on this but others on the list may have an > interest. A few years back I (and other List members) sent you > teaching samples for your kids. You thanked me by sending various > lavas from Puna District, Big Island, Hawaii that you had collected in > 2003. All very cool, especially the iridescent ones! My problem, now > that I am cataloging them, is that I lost the label for the coolest > among them. It's a small piece of shiney black lava, sort of "bubbly" > with a very delicate brown/gold froth attached. It also features a > small "Lava Bomb" appendage. Can you give me any details on this puppy? > > Hope you and Bill are well and happy. > > John > Santa, ID > Where the pump is still frozen > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Jan 29 17:10:32 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Jan 29 17:11:53 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com> <4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> Thanks Kitty, That's exactly what it is. I'll try to post a photo tomorrow. John > The delicate brown/gold froth sounds like reticulite... From davisj at earthlink.net Thu Jan 29 17:58:23 2009 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Thu Jan 29 17:58:22 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON!! In-Reply-To: <200901241924.AA1949106288@tfon.com> Message-ID: Where are you in the Inn suites? From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 18:43:24 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 29 18:43:26 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> Message-ID: <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Why does the federal government want to own all vertebrate fossils? What on earth would it do with them, and why wouldn't they be the property of universities or museums like they always ahve been? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Olmstead" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 > >> >> >> Wendell M... wrote: >> >>> Hello >> > ..... > >>> >>> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: >>> >>> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources >>> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of Representatives >>> late last year. Well, the bill is back this Congress! This time, the >>> bill's language is included in S.22, the Omnibus Public Land Management >>> Act of 2009. The bill is a compilation of hundreds of public lands >>> bills and is being pushed through quickly and without debate by Democrat >>> leadership. S.22 has already been passed by the Senate and is awaiting >>> action in the House - which could happen as early as today or the next >>> few days! The bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow >>> for amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language >>> will be included. >>> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is >>> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without >>> controversy. >>> >>> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in S. >>> 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. >>> >>> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on federal >>> lands with the exception of "casual collecting." 2. It requires that >>> vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are the property of the U.S. >>> Government. 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some >>> fossil activities that are quite commonplace. >>> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. 5. The >>> federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture for vehicles, >>> equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these new >>> restrictions. 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn private >>> land with funds seized under this act. >>> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of those >>> who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from being able to >>> do so. This will reduce the fossils available for museums and >>> classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not operating for profit. >>> >>> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. >>> >>> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have >>> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this bill >>> can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. Section >>> number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL RESOURCES." >>> >>> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your >>> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the section >>> 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go to >>> , plug in your state and ZIP code, >>> and click "Contact my representative". You will see the name, address >>> and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it recommend that >>> you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your representative's E >>> Mail address at . DO IT >>> NOW. >>> >>> Cheerio, Wendell >> >> > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 29 18:48:45 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Thu Jan 29 18:48:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder><4960094B.7030206@verizon.net><8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or what? Or is this just an alternative theory? As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area. > > The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > hundreds of kilometers from the source. > > The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > archaeological sites in the region that are even older than Stonehenge. > > As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up! > > Alan G. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From everbeek at ptd.net Thu Jan 29 18:51:13 2009 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Thu Jan 29 18:51:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 In-Reply-To: <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: The federal government doesn't own those fossils, nor does it want to -- they, and they land they're on, belong to the people of the United States. They're public lands. That doesn't mean it's a public free-for-all, however -- the government is tasked with managing those lands on behalf of its citizens, a quite different concept from owning the land and its resources. How well the government manages to balance the various public interests in using and exploiting those resources is another topic altogether! Cheers- Earl Verbeek On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:43:24 -0600, "Dora Smith" wrote: > Why does the federal government want to own all vertebrate fossils? What > on earth would it do with them, and why wouldn't they be the property of > universities or museums like they always ahve been? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Olmstead" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:27 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 > > >> >>> >>> >>> Wendell M... wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>> >> ..... >> >>>> >>>> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: >>>> >>>> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources >>>> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of Representatives >>>> >>>> late last year. Well, the bill is back this Congress! This time, the >>>> bill's language is included in S.22, the Omnibus Public Land Management >>>> >>>> Act of 2009. The bill is a compilation of hundreds of public lands >>>> bills and is being pushed through quickly and without debate by >>>> Democrat >>>> leadership. S.22 has already been passed by the Senate and is awaiting >>>> >>>> action in the House - which could happen as early as today or the next >>>> few days! The bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow >>>> for amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language >>>> will be included. >>>> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is >>>> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without >>>> controversy. >>>> >>>> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in S. >>>> >>>> 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. >>>> >>>> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on federal >>>> >>>> lands with the exception of "casual collecting." 2. It requires that >>>> vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are the property of the U.S. >>>> Government. 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some >>>> fossil activities that are quite commonplace. >>>> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. 5. The >>>> federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture for >>>> vehicles, >>>> equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these new >>>> restrictions. 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn private >>>> >>>> land with funds seized under this act. >>>> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of those >>>> >>>> who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from being able >>>> to >>>> do so. This will reduce the fossils available for museums and >>>> classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not operating for >>>> profit. >>>> >>>> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. >>>> >>>> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have >>>> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this >>>> bill >>>> can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. >>>> Section >>>> number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL >>>> RESOURCES." >>>> >>>> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your >>>> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the >>>> section >>>> 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go to >>>> , plug in your state and ZIP >>>> code, >>>> and click "Contact my representative". You will see the name, address >>>> and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it recommend that >>>> you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your representative's >>>> E >>>> Mail address at . DO IT >>>> NOW. >>>> >>>> Cheerio, Wendell >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 20:00:44 2009 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 29 20:00:48 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 In-Reply-To: References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: The most disturbing fact of this issue is that many of these fossils wash out, and then last for a few years of weather and freeze thaw cycles before they are reduced to gravel. I think I heard a Ranger at Dinosaur NM say that there were literally hundred and thousands of known exposures of fossils in the park but they only had a few digging parties from approved groups requesting permission to dig each year. The vast majority of the fossils are lost. But these university paleontologists would rather that happen than allow people to pick up the fossils from dry washes and take them home or sell them. There has to be a moral here. BK On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 21:51, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > The federal government doesn't own those fossils, nor does it want to -- > they, and they land they're on, belong to the people of the United States. > They're public lands. That doesn't mean it's a public free-for-all, > however -- the government is tasked with managing those lands on behalf of > its citizens, a quite different concept from owning the land and its > resources. How well the government manages to balance the various public > interests in using and exploiting those resources is another topic > altogether! > > Cheers- Earl Verbeek > > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:43:24 -0600, "Dora Smith" > wrote: > > Why does the federal government want to own all vertebrate fossils? > What > > on earth would it do with them, and why wouldn't they be the property of > > universities or museums like they always ahve been? > > > > Yours, > > Dora Smith > > Austin, TX > > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frederick Olmstead" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:27 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 > > > > > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Wendell M... wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello > >>> > >> ..... > >> > >>>> > >>>> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: > >>>> > >>>> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources > >>>> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of > Representatives > >>>> > >>>> late last year. Well, the bill is back this Congress! This time, the > > >>>> bill's language is included in S.22, the Omnibus Public Land > Management > >>>> > >>>> Act of 2009. The bill is a compilation of hundreds of public lands > >>>> bills and is being pushed through quickly and without debate by > >>>> Democrat > >>>> leadership. S.22 has already been passed by the Senate and is > awaiting > >>>> > >>>> action in the House - which could happen as early as today or the next > > >>>> few days! The bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow > > >>>> for amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language > >>>> will be included. > >>>> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is > >>>> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without > >>>> controversy. > >>>> > >>>> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in > S. > >>>> > >>>> 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. > >>>> > >>>> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on > federal > >>>> > >>>> lands with the exception of "casual collecting." 2. It requires that > > >>>> vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are the property of the U.S. > > >>>> Government. 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some > >>>> fossil activities that are quite commonplace. > >>>> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. 5. The > >>>> federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture for > >>>> vehicles, > >>>> equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these new > >>>> restrictions. 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn > private > >>>> > >>>> land with funds seized under this act. > >>>> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of > those > >>>> > >>>> who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from being able > >>>> to > >>>> do so. This will reduce the fossils available for museums and > >>>> classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not operating for > >>>> profit. > >>>> > >>>> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. > >>>> > >>>> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have > >>>> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this > >>>> bill > >>>> can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. > >>>> Section > >>>> number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL > >>>> RESOURCES." > >>>> > >>>> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your > >>>> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the > >>>> section > >>>> 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go to > >>>> , plug in your state and ZIP > >>>> code, > >>>> and click "Contact my representative". You will see the name, address > > >>>> and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it recommend that > > >>>> you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your representative's > >>>> E > >>>> Mail address at . DO IT > >>>> NOW. > >>>> > >>>> Cheerio, Wendell > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- ""It often seems to me that the night is much more alive and richly colored than the day." Vincent van Gogh J Bryan Kr?mer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 30 00:18:03 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Jan 30 00:18:07 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 In-Reply-To: <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <00a001c982b3$462b75e0$d28261a0$@com> Fossils found on Federal Government land belong to the Federal Government, like they always have in this country. If the land managers see fit to allow a university, museum, amateur, or commercial interest to collect them, then they do so. If they don't, they don't. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:43 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 Why does the federal government want to own all vertebrate fossils? What on earth would it do with them, and why wouldn't they be the property of universities or museums like they always ahve been? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Olmstead" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 > >> >> >> Wendell M... wrote: >> >>> Hello >> > ..... > >>> >>> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: >>> >>> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources >>> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of Representatives >>> late last year. Well, the bill is back this Congress! This time, the >>> bill's language is included in S.22, the Omnibus Public Land Management >>> Act of 2009. The bill is a compilation of hundreds of public lands >>> bills and is being pushed through quickly and without debate by Democrat >>> leadership. S.22 has already been passed by the Senate and is awaiting >>> action in the House - which could happen as early as today or the next >>> few days! The bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow >>> for amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language >>> will be included. >>> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is >>> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without >>> controversy. >>> >>> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in S. >>> 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. >>> >>> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on federal >>> lands with the exception of "casual collecting." 2. It requires that >>> vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are the property of the U.S. >>> Government. 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some >>> fossil activities that are quite commonplace. >>> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. 5. The >>> federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture for vehicles, >>> equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these new >>> restrictions. 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn private >>> land with funds seized under this act. >>> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of those >>> who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from being able to >>> do so. This will reduce the fossils available for museums and >>> classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not operating for profit. >>> >>> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. >>> >>> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have >>> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this bill >>> can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. Section >>> number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL RESOURCES." >>> >>> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your >>> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the section >>> 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go to >>> , plug in your state and ZIP code, >>> and click "Contact my representative". You will see the name, address >>> and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it recommend that >>> you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your representative's E >>> Mail address at . DO IT >>> NOW. >>> >>> Cheerio, Wendell >> >> > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 30 00:20:32 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Jan 30 00:20:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 In-Reply-To: References: <7fdgi0$nks3qt@smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net> <497FA665.7050107@rcn.com> <039601c98284$866faf10$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <00a101c982b3$9ed9a3b0$dc8ceb10$@com> Earl, Federal lands and everything on them are held in trust for the citizens by the Federal Government. To all intents and purposes they belong to the government, not to its citizens. I agree that it's not a free-for-all, but by the same token, look what it takes to affect any change in management of these resources - a silly omnibus, all-or-nothing bill. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Earl R. Verbeek Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:51 PM To: Dora Smith; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 Importance: Low The federal government doesn't own those fossils, nor does it want to -- they, and they land they're on, belong to the people of the United States. They're public lands. That doesn't mean it's a public free-for-all, however -- the government is tasked with managing those lands on behalf of its citizens, a quite different concept from owning the land and its resources. How well the government manages to balance the various public interests in using and exploiting those resources is another topic altogether! Cheers- Earl Verbeek On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:43:24 -0600, "Dora Smith" wrote: > Why does the federal government want to own all vertebrate fossils? What > on earth would it do with them, and why wouldn't they be the property of > universities or museums like they always ahve been? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Olmstead" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:27 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] H.R. 554 > > >> >>> >>> >>> Wendell M... wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>> >> ..... >> >>>> >>>> Based largely on information from Rep. John Culberson's office: >>>> >>>> Most of you are familiar with H.R. 554, the Paleontological Resources >>>> Preservation Act, which was pending before the House of Representatives >>>> >>>> late last year. Well, the bill is back this Congress! This time, the >>>> bill's language is included in S.22, the Omnibus Public Land Management >>>> >>>> Act of 2009. The bill is a compilation of hundreds of public lands >>>> bills and is being pushed through quickly and without debate by >>>> Democrat >>>> leadership. S.22 has already been passed by the Senate and is awaiting >>>> >>>> action in the House - which could happen as early as today or the next >>>> few days! The bill will come up under a procedure that does not allow >>>> for amendments. In other words, if passed, the paleontology language >>>> will be included. >>>> There are some very dangerous provisions in this bill and it is >>>> important that people realize this omnibus lands bill is not without >>>> controversy. >>>> >>>> Below are highlights of the H.R. 554 provisions that are included in S. >>>> >>>> 22. These provisions DO apply to casual collectors. >>>> >>>> 1. The bill requires a federal permit for fossil collecting on federal >>>> >>>> lands with the exception of "casual collecting." 2. It requires that >>>> vertebrate fossils found on federal lands are the property of the U.S. >>>> Government. 3. Establishes civil and criminal penalties for some >>>> fossil activities that are quite commonplace. >>>> 4. The criminal penalties are felonies in some situations. 5. The >>>> federal government is given the powers of asset forfeiture for >>>> vehicles, >>>> equipment, and fossils collected in violations of these new >>>> restrictions. 6. The bill also contains a provision to condemn private >>>> >>>> land with funds seized under this act. >>>> The direct effect of H.R. 554 will be to exclude the majority of those >>>> >>>> who are currently collecting fossils on federal lands from being able >>>> to >>>> do so. This will reduce the fossils available for museums and >>>> classrooms. The vast majority of amateurs are not operating for >>>> profit. >>>> >>>> There is not a House version; the House will vote on S. 22. >>>> >>>> If ever this issue requires your attention it is NOW. I have >>>> conflicting information whether the Paleontological portion of this >>>> bill >>>> can be deleted or if the vote is on the whole bill, unchanged. >>>> Section >>>> number 6304 of S 22 is titled "COLLECTION OF PALEONTOLOGICAL >>>> RESOURCES." >>>> >>>> Before you simply dump this message PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let your >>>> representative know that the bill should be defeated or that the >>>> section >>>> 6304 MUST be deleted.. To find who your representative is go to >>>> , plug in your state and ZIP >>>> code, >>>> and click "Contact my representative". You will see the name, address >>>> and phone of your rep. Due to the short time window it recommend that >>>> you phone. If you prefer to E Mail you can find your representative's >>>> E >>>> Mail address at . DO IT >>>> NOW. >>>> >>>> Cheerio, Wendell >>> >>> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Jan 30 08:23:19 2009 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 30 08:23:35 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved In-Reply-To: <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder><4960094B.7030206@verizon.net><8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> I'd read that article; it was, one should acknowledge, just an inference by these geologists who studied it, not "proof absolute".? And no, there are certainly no "actual tracks" left by the stones, it's just their deduction about where they came from; but it sounded fairly logical; but always subject to someone else's different interpretation! The "typical glacial erratic" certainly doesn't have to be larger than a "Stonehenge stone"; those are pretty big.? I don't think there's any such thing as a "typical size" of a glacial erratic.? They only get called "glacial erratics" if they are large boulders, big enough to be obviously noticed as "out of place".? What these scientists concluded, was that the reason there are no other big large boulders like this lying around anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably?big ones?and dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site.? Sounds reasonable to me, but next year, someone else may come up with a new interpretation. I think we all get annoyed by the news stories (or even the stories written by the scientists themselves, promoting their own work) that say, "Scientists now have THE explanation to solve the mystery of thus-and-such", because it often turns out to be "Just another hypothesis" that turns out not to be completely correct. Pete I think it was the previous issue of Earth (January), not the latest one (Feb., which just came out),? that had this article. Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? ? As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? Yours,? Dora Smith? Austin, TX? -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 7:48 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? ? As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? Yours,? Dora Smith? Austin, TX? tiggernut24@yahoo.com? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" ? To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ? Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:36 PM? Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved? ? > There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area.? >? > The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > hundreds of kilometers from the source.? >? > The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > archaeological sites in the region that are even older than Stonehenge.? >? > As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up!? >? > Alan G.? >? > -- > _______________________________________________? > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? > Subscription Services:? > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? > ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbf at jbfminerals.com Fri Jan 30 09:22:09 2009 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeffrey Fast) Date: Fri Jan 30 09:22:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com In-Reply-To: <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder><4960094B.7030206@verizon.net><8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001c982ff$499a9a70$dccfcf50$@com> If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my website twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know what you think! www.jbfminerals.com Thanks! Jeff Fast "a mineral addict in Connecticut" From john.alcorn at verizon.net Fri Jan 30 10:40:36 2009 From: john.alcorn at verizon.net (john.alcorn@verizon.net) Date: Fri Jan 30 10:40:54 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com Message-ID: <1063337670.380603.1233340836754.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net> My software detected a virus here you may want to check it out. Jan 30, 2009 05:23:02 PM, rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com wrote: If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my website twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know what you think! www.jbfminerals.com Thanks! Jeff Fast "a mineral addict in Connecticut" -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jcessna at nist.gov Fri Jan 30 12:25:32 2009 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Fri Jan 30 12:25:45 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com In-Reply-To: <1063337670.380603.1233340836754.JavaMail.root@vms244.mails rvcs.net> References: <1063337670.380603.1233340836754.JavaMail.root@vms244.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130152228.025dab80@nist.gov> John, Could you be a little more specific about "software", "here", and "you", please. Just wondering, since I already looked at the email and visited the site. Thanks. At 01:40 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: >My software detected a virus here you may want to check it out. > > >Jan 30, 2009 05:23:02 PM, >rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > wrote: > >If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my website >twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis >Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know what you >think! > > >www.jbfminerals.com > > >Thanks! > >Jeff Fast >"a mineral addict in Connecticut" > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lapidary.specialties at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 15:14:30 2009 From: lapidary.specialties at gmail.com (Kris Rowe) Date: Fri Jan 30 15:14:59 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] TUCSON! In-Reply-To: <200901290743.AA44433582@tfon.com> References: <200901290743.AA44433582@tfon.com> Message-ID: <831c9ad10901301514t1a0acc02ib1b7ca62b4d0f332@mail.gmail.com> Howdy, John! Thanks for the great link to Trinity, and for the lovely huelandite pics. (If you ever need an apprentice "mucker," be sure to let me know! *grin!*) It's good to see that things are getting started in Tucson already, perhaps this will be a good year after all. BTW, any word from the Quartzsite shows? We were hoping to get there this year, but fate isn't going to allow it. ("Fate", of course, being the name of the computer monitor that died, and ate some of our show travel money! *lol*) Thanks again, and we'll look forward to more reports! Be Well! Kris Lapidary Specialties On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 7:43 AM, John & Gloria Cornish wrote: > Good morning Everyone, > > It's just after 8:30 as I begin this post. Outside while brisk, the sun is > shining. Yesterday was a very busy day as I received the last of the > inventory for the room. The last shipment arrived at 11:00 pm. I'll be > working with it this morning and then with that completed, the room will be > 100%. Lots of pretties. > > It was a slow day yesterday which was fine as it allowed me the time I > needed to walk around and hang my flyers on the reader boards. With that > task behind me, it was back to the room for more fun. > > I've still not had the chance to visit any of the other rooms. More are > opening each day but it is obvious that there is a slow start to this years > show. Both dealers and customers continue to be slow to arrive. More will > open today and more folks will arrive to visit them. While a slow start, who > knows on what note the show is going to end? > > I've been blessed and have already been included to one online show report > which can be seen at the following link... > > http://trinityminerals.com/tucson2009/report1.shtml > > I'll try to get out some in the following days to fill these reports with > more "meat and potatoes" so to speak. Still, in the end, I'm here! > > Welcome to Tucson! All the very best, take care, > > John > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sent via the WebMail system at http://www.tfon.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jan 30 17:00:01 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:01:20 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net> <807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> Message-ID: Kitty et.al., Here's a shot of the reticulite. VERY cool stuff! http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3239441903/ John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 30 17:14:43 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:13:10 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130152228.025dab80@nist.gov> Message-ID: <8A8DF89A-EF34-11DD-8CDD-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> The List does not allow attachments, so the virus must have been detected visiting the link. Kreigh On Friday, Jan 30, 2009, at 15:25 America/Detroit, Jeffrey T. Cessna wrote: > John, > > Could you be a little more specific about "software", "here", and > "you", please. Just wondering, since I already looked at the email and > visited the site. > > Thanks. > > At 01:40 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: > > >> My software detected a virus here you may want to check it out. >> >> >> Jan 30, 2009 05:23:02 PM, >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> wrote: >> >> If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my >> website >> twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis >> Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know >> what you >> think! >> >> >> www.jbfminerals.com >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff Fast >> "a mineral addict in Connecticut" >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> text/html (html body -- converted) >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jan 30 17:34:43 2009 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:34:46 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for clubs in Salt Lake area Message-ID: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> Hi all, I am looking for rock clubs in the Salt Lake UT area. I checked the federation website and found a few, but not all clubs are in the federations. I am particularly interested in those who have direct experience with any of the clubs, as far as them welcoming outsiders and newcomers and so forth. Thanks, Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jan 30 17:46:58 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:48:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Zeolites References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net> <807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> Message-ID: It was a beautiful sunny day, but it's still winter here in northern Idaho. So I'm rockhounding by digging around in boxes that haven't been opened since we moved back here in 2003. What a treasure hunt! I was prospecting a box of zeolites from Rickreall Creek Quarry in Polk County, Oregon that Julie and I were fortunate to collect in 2002. Lots of pearly white stilbite blades up to 1" and large calcites. Beautiful stuff. As I was unwrapping I noticed a lone stone that had not been wrapped. I picked it up, dropped my Optivisor (tm) and got a closer look. "Holy Crap!" says I, what the... I don't how it survived the 400 mile move unprotected, but I have now cataloged a lovely speciment of mordenite with heulandite. Photos at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3239441723/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3240279426/ Back to the quarry! - John From jcessna at nist.gov Fri Jan 30 17:50:36 2009 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:50:55 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com In-Reply-To: <8A8DF89A-EF34-11DD-8CDD-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130152228.025dab80@nist.gov> <8A8DF89A-EF34-11DD-8CDD-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130203656.0216f8d0@nist.gov> Right. I should have thought of that. It still would be good to have more info, whenever it is available. There was a legitimate redirect at the site, to the sellers new site name. Some software might flag that. I had visited with the latest Firefox, it saw nothing. I run auto-protect and I've done a quick virus scan since I visited, nothing. I'd hate to see nobody visit the site (not an endorsement) for lack of more info. Cheers, Jeff At 08:14 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: >The List does not allow attachments, so the virus must have been >detected visiting the link. > >Kreigh > > >On Friday, Jan 30, 2009, at 15:25 America/Detroit, Jeffrey T. Cessna wrote: > >>John, >> >>Could you be a little more specific about "software", "here", and >>"you", please. Just wondering, since I already looked at the email >>and visited the site. >> >>Thanks. >> >>At 01:40 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>>My software detected a virus here you may want to check it out. >>> >>> >>>Jan 30, 2009 05:23:02 PM, >>>rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my website >>>twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis >>>Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know what you >>>think! >>> >>> >>>www.jbfminerals.com >>> >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Jeff Fast >>>"a mineral addict in Connecticut" >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>> >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>text/html (html body -- converted) >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 30 18:00:21 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 30 17:58:47 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Redoubt volcano in Alaska still rumbling, but no eruption yet Message-ID: The short story has a link to the volcano observatory. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/01/mount-redoubt-v.html I think I would rather be elsewhere if this one blows its top like it did in '89. Kreigh From folmstead at rcn.com Fri Jan 30 17:59:25 2009 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Fri Jan 30 18:00:04 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] : The Proposa] Message-ID: <4983B07D.6090301@rcn.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: The Proposal Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:23:12 -0500 From: To: Here is the detail of the act, extracted from the zillion other parts of the Omnibus bill. Read it and see what you think. Cheerio, W... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/msword --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 30 19:12:00 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 30 19:10:25 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for clubs in Salt Lake area In-Reply-To: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> Message-ID: The Canadian Federation has a good list of clubs that are online. http://ccfms.ca/Online_Resources/usa_clubs3.htm#UTAH On Friday, Jan 30, 2009, at 20:34 America/Detroit, DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am looking for rock clubs in the Salt Lake UT area. I checked the > federation website and found a few, but not all clubs are in the > federations. > > I am particularly interested in those who have direct experience with > any of the clubs, as far as them welcoming outsiders and newcomers and > so forth. > > > Thanks, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Jan 30 19:42:20 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Fri Jan 30 19:42:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Zeolites In-Reply-To: References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net> <807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> Message-ID: <00e601c98355$ec026ad0$c4074070$@com> Somewhere I have an egg carton of the hairy mordenite "puffballs" from Rickreall. They are pretty impressive. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 5:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Zeolites It was a beautiful sunny day, but it's still winter here in northern Idaho. So I'm rockhounding by digging around in boxes that haven't been opened since we moved back here in 2003. What a treasure hunt! I was prospecting a box of zeolites from Rickreall Creek Quarry in Polk County, Oregon that Julie and I were fortunate to collect in 2002. Lots of pearly white stilbite blades up to 1" and large calcites. Beautiful stuff. As I was unwrapping I noticed a lone stone that had not been wrapped. I picked it up, dropped my Optivisor (tm) and got a closer look. "Holy Crap!" says I, what the... I don't how it survived the 400 mile move unprotected, but I have now cataloged a lovely speciment of mordenite with heulandite. Photos at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3239441723/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3240279426/ Back to the quarry! - John From jbf at jbfminerals.com Fri Jan 30 20:29:54 2009 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeffrey Fast) Date: Fri Jan 30 20:29:58 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130203656.0216f8d0@nist.gov> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20090130152228.025dab80@nist.gov> <8A8DF89A-EF34-11DD-8CDD-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20090130203656.0216f8d0@nist.gov> Message-ID: <001601c9835c$91928ba0$b4b7a2e0$@com> Jeff (Cesna), Thanks for looking into that about the virus! I appreciate it (as the website owner). Jeff Fast www.MineralMovies.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey T. Cessna Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 8:51 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD: Tucson update to MineralMovies.com Right. I should have thought of that. It still would be good to have more info, whenever it is available. There was a legitimate redirect at the site, to the sellers new site name. Some software might flag that. I had visited with the latest Firefox, it saw nothing. I run auto-protect and I've done a quick virus scan since I visited, nothing. I'd hate to see nobody visit the site (not an endorsement) for lack of more info. Cheers, Jeff At 08:14 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: >The List does not allow attachments, so the virus must have been >detected visiting the link. > >Kreigh > > >On Friday, Jan 30, 2009, at 15:25 America/Detroit, Jeffrey T. Cessna wrote: > >>John, >> >>Could you be a little more specific about "software", "here", and >>"you", please. Just wondering, since I already looked at the email >>and visited the site. >> >>Thanks. >> >>At 01:40 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote: >> >> >>>My software detected a virus here you may want to check it out. >>> >>> >>>Jan 30, 2009 05:23:02 PM, >>>rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>If you are interested in seeing some new rocks, I have updated my website >>>twice this week. Actually, I have updated it once and Carlos and Luis >>>Menezes, from Brazil, added some pieces of their own. Let me know what you >>>think! >>> >>> >>>www.jbfminerals.com >>> >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Jeff Fast >>>"a mineral addict in Connecticut" >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>> >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>text/html (html body -- converted) >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 22:42:38 2009 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jan 30 22:42:42 2009 Subject: FW: [Rockhounds] looking for clubs in Salt Lake area In-Reply-To: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> References: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don, Be sure to check out "Rockpick Legends" Rock Shop in SLC. Mark Dalrymple is pretty knowledgeable and helpful the few times I've been there. Glenn > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:34:43 -0700> From: donhalterman@verizon.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for clubs in Salt Lake area> > > Hi all,> > I am looking for rock clubs in the Salt Lake UT area. I checked the > federation website and found a few, but not all clubs are in the > federations.> > I am particularly interested in those who have direct experience with > any of the clubs, as far as them welcoming outsiders and newcomers and > so forth.> > > Thanks,> Don> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jan 31 02:15:00 2009 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jan 31 02:15:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava In-Reply-To: References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net><807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> Message-ID: <33F87673B42C4FECB7D5F6CC9F0A1374@AXELDESKTOP> Marvellous shot, John. That reminds me of the box of lava-stuff Kitty gave me. I still need to photograph those... Life is too short. Maybe when I have some time to set up my new website. I'm working on that ;-))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: zaterdag 31 januari 2009 2:00 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava > > Kitty et.al., > > Here's a shot of the reticulite. VERY cool stuff! > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3239441903/ > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Sat Jan 31 04:50:10 2009 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Sat Jan 31 04:43:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for clubs in Salt Lake area In-Reply-To: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> References: <4983AAB3.7060503@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don, Here are the Salt Lake area clubs that I'm aware of. Hope it helps. Carolyn Golden Spike Gem & Mineral Society Meetings 3rd Wednesday 7:00pm at Dumke room, Union Station 2501 Wall Ave. Ogden, UT 84401-1359 Beehive Gem & Mineral Club Meetings 4th Thursday at 7:00 pm in the Commons Room, Ogden-Hinkley Airport Terminal, 3900 S Airport Rd; Ogden, UT Timpanogos Gem & Mineral Society, Meets Last Wednesday at 7pm at Provo Eldred Center, 270 W 500 N in Provo Wasatch Gem Society Meetings the 3rd Monday of each month at 7:30 p.m. at Bicentennial Hall in Sandy, Utah 530 E. 8680 S. On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:34 PM, DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am looking for rock clubs in the Salt Lake UT area. I checked > the federation website and found a few, but not all clubs are in > the federations. > > I am particularly interested in those who have direct experience > with any of the clubs, as far as them welcoming outsiders and > newcomers and so forth. > > > Thanks, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 31 09:49:04 2009 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 31 09:49:16 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved In-Reply-To: <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Pete, Thanks for replying. I am in the middle of another multi-day blackout thanks to the ice storm on Tuesday. Checking e-mail at work, but really don't have time to do more than read and delete. Two of the worst storms in Kentucky's history occurred within 4 months of each other (Hurricane Ike and this ice storm). There are some counties with 100% electrical outages. It's a mess. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: pmodreski@aol.com Date: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:56 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > I'd read that article; it was, one should acknowledge, just an > inference by these geologists who studied it, not "proof > absolute".? And no, there are certainly no "actual tracks" left > by the stones, it's just their deduction about where they came > from; but it sounded fairly logical; but always subject to > someone else's different interpretation! > > The "typical glacial erratic" certainly doesn't have to be > larger than a "Stonehenge stone"; those are pretty big.? I don't > think there's any such thing as a "typical size" of a glacial > erratic.? They only get called "glacial erratics" if they are > large boulders, big enough to be obviously noticed as "out of > place".? What these scientists concluded, was that the reason > there are no other big large boulders like this lying around > anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who > built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably?big ones?and > dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site.? Sounds reasonable > to me, but next year, someone else may come up with a new > interpretation. > I think we all get annoyed by the news stories (or even the > stories written by the scientists themselves, promoting their > own work) that say, "Scientists now have THE explanation to > solve the mystery of thus-and-such", because it often turns out > to be "Just another hypothesis" that turns out not to be > completely correct. > > Pete > > I think it was the previous issue of Earth (January), not the > latest one (Feb., which just came out),? that had this article. > > > > Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge > stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or > what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? > ? > As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern > England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't > the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? > It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? > Yours,? > Dora Smith? > Austin, TX? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dora Smith > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 7:48 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > > > Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge > stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or > what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? > ? > As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern > England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't > the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? > It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? > Yours,? > Dora Smith? > Austin, TX? > tiggernut24@yahoo.com? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" > ?To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > ?Sent: Tuesday, January 06, > 2009 7:36 PM? > Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved? > ? > > There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth > magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. > It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing > primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while > it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they > were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric > people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > > turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different > types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be > expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area.? > >? > > The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were > "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial > lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the > place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in > Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times > larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. > They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > > hundreds of kilometers from the source.? > >? > > The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has > been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite > rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. > Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been > found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > > archaeological sites in the region that are even older than > Stonehenge.?>? > > As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics > today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of > habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up!? > >? > > Alan G.? > >? > > -- > _______________________________________________? > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? > > Subscription Services:? > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? > > ? > -- _______________________________________________? > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? > Subscription Services:? > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Jan 31 10:35:23 2009 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Jan 31 10:35:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved In-Reply-To: References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder> <4960094B.7030206@verizon.net> <8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com> <03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> <8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <498499EB.2090707@hawaiiantel.net> There are many---perhaps 900---other stone circles and henges in the British Isles. Bill and I have visited the ones at Avebury and Woodhenge. There are also other standing stones, hill figures, etc. So the ancient people didn't drag/roll stones to only Stonehenge, they used them for lots of purposes in many places. The following link gives descriptions and photos of some of these features, and if you click on one of the highlighted/underlines names there is more specific information. http://www.britainexpress.com/History/prehistoric_monuments.htm Aloha, Kitty >> What these scientists concluded, was that the reason >> there are no other big large boulders like this lying around >> anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who >> built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably big ones and >> dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site. From tiggernut24 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 31 11:43:32 2009 From: tiggernut24 at yahoo.com (Dora Smith) Date: Sat Jan 31 11:43:33 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder><4960094B.7030206@verizon.net><8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00b601c983dc$33807470$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> No problem, I delete most e-mail I get, and it takes me weeks to read the mail on this list - tends to be low priority even when it's abuot teh Yellowstone volcano. A glacial erratic is a chunk of rock thrown down in a very strange place, doesn't fit at all with the geology aruond it. If it were as small a a Stonehenge rock, let alone much smaller, it seems like it would be hard to conclude that a glacier was responsible. With Stonehenge-sized rocks a glacier could have moved it, but so could a determined group of people, if they wanted that particular rock badly enough. It is very possible that the rocks at Stonehenge are the only rocks their size to inspire that sort of wondering as to what they were and how they got there. Usualyl people see big boulders and they don't really wonder about it. Rocks described as erratics are usually big indeed, and in fact, I don't think they're always rocks. I think there's a place in the northwest where inexplicable big holes in the ground are described as erratics. Turns out they were scoured out by flooding behind an ice dam, or when the ice dam broke, or something. Tehre may be rocks in odd places as well. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > Pete, > > Thanks for replying. I am in the middle of another multi-day blackout > thanks to the ice storm on Tuesday. Checking e-mail at work, but really > don't have time to do more than read and delete. Two of the worst storms > in Kentucky's history occurred within 4 months of each other (Hurricane > Ike and this ice storm). There are some counties with 100% electrical > outages. It's a mess. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: pmodreski@aol.com > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:56 > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> I'd read that article; it was, one should acknowledge, just an >> inference by these geologists who studied it, not "proof >> absolute".? And no, there are certainly no "actual tracks" left >> by the stones, it's just their deduction about where they came >> from; but it sounded fairly logical; but always subject to >> someone else's different interpretation! >> >> The "typical glacial erratic" certainly doesn't have to be >> larger than a "Stonehenge stone"; those are pretty big.? I don't >> think there's any such thing as a "typical size" of a glacial >> erratic.? They only get called "glacial erratics" if they are >> large boulders, big enough to be obviously noticed as "out of >> place".? What these scientists concluded, was that the reason >> there are no other big large boulders like this lying around >> anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who >> built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably?big ones?and >> dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site.? Sounds reasonable >> to me, but next year, someone else may come up with a new >> interpretation. >> I think we all get annoyed by the news stories (or even the >> stories written by the scientists themselves, promoting their >> own work) that say, "Scientists now have THE explanation to >> solve the mystery of thus-and-such", because it often turns out >> to be "Just another hypothesis" that turns out not to be >> completely correct. >> >> Pete >> >> I think it was the previous issue of Earth (January), not the >> latest one (Feb., which just came out),? that had this article. >> >> >> >> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >> ? >> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >> Yours,? >> Dora Smith? >> Austin, TX? >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dora Smith >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 7:48 pm >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved >> >> >> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >> ? >> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >> Yours,? >> Dora Smith? >> Austin, TX? >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" >> ?To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A >> mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> ?Sent: Tuesday, January 06, >> 2009 7:36 PM? >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved? >> ? >> > There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth >> magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. >> It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing >> primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while >> it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they >> were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric >> people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > >> turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different >> types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be >> expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area.? >> >? >> > The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were >> "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial >> lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the >> place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in >> Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times >> larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. >> They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > >> hundreds of kilometers from the source.? >> >? >> > The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has >> been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite >> rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. >> Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been >> found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > >> archaeological sites in the region that are even older than >> Stonehenge.?>? >> > As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics >> today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of >> habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up!? >> >? >> > Alan G.? >> >? >> > -- > _______________________________________________? >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >> > Subscription Services:? >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >> > ? >> -- _______________________________________________? >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >> Subscription Services:? >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jeanne at jeannius.com Sat Jan 31 11:50:25 2009 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sat Jan 31 11:50:29 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] need help with agate origin Message-ID: <4984AB81.8060505@jeannius.com> I got some 'estate' lapidary material recently, incl. a rock which had the colors of death valley plume or wingate...but I am uncertain if it is from there or not. I've posted a picture of a cab from the stone at http://www.creativecabs.com/plumecab2.jpg including a close up. The entire piece is riddled with tiny crystal vugs and I believe, small fortifications and red/orange plumes. Beautiful stuff...but would be nice if I could ID it. Jeanne From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 31 14:36:39 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Jan 31 14:36:43 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved In-Reply-To: <00b601c983dc$33807470$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> References: <2EA9941F823E461185D0C7A3CEE05B31@BlackAdder><4960094B.7030206@verizon.net><8CB3E704691467F-1054-4D3@webmail-dx11.sysops.aol.com><03c501c98285$45b60db0$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F><8CB510E32A36256-D78-11D0@WEBMAIL-DF14.sysops.aol.com> <00b601c983dc$33807470$640fa8c0@IBM39C0456AF0F> Message-ID: <000a01c983f4$625b4fa0$2711eee0$@com> Where there are hundreds or thousands of glacial erratic boulders in concentrated areas and a glacial process has been identified that moved them there, they are very likely erratics. They are usually identifiable by characteristics that they all have in common that the "country" rocks around them do not. We have erratics from the Bonneville floods scattered around the Willamette Valley and they stand out like a sore thumb in this basalt country. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com No problem, I delete most e-mail I get, and it takes me weeks to read the mail on this list - tends to be low priority even when it's abuot teh Yellowstone volcano. A glacial erratic is a chunk of rock thrown down in a very strange place, doesn't fit at all with the geology aruond it. If it were as small a a Stonehenge rock, let alone much smaller, it seems like it would be hard to conclude that a glacier was responsible. With Stonehenge-sized rocks a glacier could have moved it, but so could a determined group of people, if they wanted that particular rock badly enough. It is very possible that the rocks at Stonehenge are the only rocks their size to inspire that sort of wondering as to what they were and how they got there. Usualyl people see big boulders and they don't really wonder about it. Rocks described as erratics are usually big indeed, and in fact, I don't think they're always rocks. I think there's a place in the northwest where inexplicable big holes in the ground are described as erratics. Turns out they were scoured out by flooding behind an ice dam, or when the ice dam broke, or something. Tehre may be rocks in odd places as well. Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > Pete, > > Thanks for replying. I am in the middle of another multi-day blackout > thanks to the ice storm on Tuesday. Checking e-mail at work, but really > don't have time to do more than read and delete. Two of the worst storms > in Kentucky's history occurred within 4 months of each other (Hurricane > Ike and this ice storm). There are some counties with 100% electrical > outages. It's a mess. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: pmodreski@aol.com > Date: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:56 > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> I'd read that article; it was, one should acknowledge, just an >> inference by these geologists who studied it, not "proof >> absolute".? And no, there are certainly no "actual tracks" left >> by the stones, it's just their deduction about where they came >> from; but it sounded fairly logical; but always subject to >> someone else's different interpretation! >> >> The "typical glacial erratic" certainly doesn't have to be >> larger than a "Stonehenge stone"; those are pretty big.? I don't >> think there's any such thing as a "typical size" of a glacial >> erratic.? They only get called "glacial erratics" if they are >> large boulders, big enough to be obviously noticed as "out of >> place".? What these scientists concluded, was that the reason >> there are no other big large boulders like this lying around >> anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who >> built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably?big ones?and >> dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site.? Sounds reasonable >> to me, but next year, someone else may come up with a new >> interpretation. >> I think we all get annoyed by the news stories (or even the >> stories written by the scientists themselves, promoting their >> own work) that say, "Scientists now have THE explanation to >> solve the mystery of thus-and-such", because it often turns out >> to be "Just another hypothesis" that turns out not to be >> completely correct. >> >> Pete >> >> I think it was the previous issue of Earth (January), not the >> latest one (Feb., which just came out),? that had this article. >> >> >> >> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >> ? >> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >> Yours,? >> Dora Smith? >> Austin, TX? >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dora Smith >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 7:48 pm >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved >> >> >> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >> ? >> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >> Yours,? >> Dora Smith? >> Austin, TX? >> tiggernut24@yahoo.com? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" >> ?To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A >> mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> ?Sent: Tuesday, January 06, >> 2009 7:36 PM? >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved? >> ? >> > There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth >> magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. >> It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing >> primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while >> it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they >> were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric >> people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > >> turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different >> types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be >> expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area.? >> >? >> > The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were >> "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial >> lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the >> place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in >> Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times >> larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. >> They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > >> hundreds of kilometers from the source.? >> >? >> > The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has >> been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite >> rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. >> Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been >> found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > >> archaeological sites in the region that are even older than >> Stonehenge.?>? >> > As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics >> today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of >> habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up!? >> >? >> > Alan G.? >> >? >> > -- > _______________________________________________? >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >> > Subscription Services:? >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >> > ? >> -- _______________________________________________? >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >> Subscription Services:? >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 31 15:59:37 2009 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 31 15:58:41 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved In-Reply-To: <000a01c983f4$625b4fa0$2711eee0$@com> Message-ID: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Some erratics are big. You might enjoy the size of the biggest one http://culture.alberta.ca/museums/historicsiteslisting/okotokserratic/ default.aspx and the interesting legend of how it split in two. Kreigh On Saturday, Jan 31, 2009, at 17:36 America/Detroit, Tim wrote: > Where there are hundreds or thousands of glacial erratic boulders in > concentrated areas and a glacial process has been identified that > moved them > there, they are very likely erratics. They are usually identifiable by > characteristics that they all have in common that the "country" rocks > around > them do not. We have erratics from the Bonneville floods scattered > around > the Willamette Valley and they stand out like a sore thumb in this > basalt > country. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > No problem, I delete most e-mail I get, and it takes me weeks to read > the > mail on this list - tends to be low priority even when it's abuot teh > Yellowstone volcano. > > A glacial erratic is a chunk of rock thrown down in a very strange > place, > doesn't fit at all with the geology aruond it. If it were as small a > a > Stonehenge rock, let alone much smaller, it seems like it would be > hard to > conclude that a glacier was responsible. With Stonehenge-sized > rocks a > glacier could have moved it, but so could a determined group of > people, if > they wanted that particular rock badly enough. > > It is very possible that the rocks at Stonehenge are the only rocks > their > size to inspire that sort of wondering as to what they were and how > they got > > there. Usualyl people see big boulders and they don't really wonder > about > it. Rocks described as erratics are usually big indeed, and in fact, > I > don't think they're always rocks. I think there's a place in the > northwest > where inexplicable big holes in the ground are described as erratics. > Turns out they were scoured out by flooding behind an ice dam, or when > the > ice dam broke, or something. Tehre may be rocks in odd places as > well. > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Goldstein" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved > > >> Pete, >> >> Thanks for replying. I am in the middle of another multi-day blackout >> thanks to the ice storm on Tuesday. Checking e-mail at work, but >> really >> don't have time to do more than read and delete. Two of the worst >> storms >> in Kentucky's history occurred within 4 months of each other >> (Hurricane >> Ike and this ice storm). There are some counties with 100% electrical >> outages. It's a mess. >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: pmodreski@aol.com >> Date: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:56 >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >>> I'd read that article; it was, one should acknowledge, just an >>> inference by these geologists who studied it, not "proof >>> absolute".? And no, there are certainly no "actual tracks" left >>> by the stones, it's just their deduction about where they came >>> from; but it sounded fairly logical; but always subject to >>> someone else's different interpretation! >>> >>> The "typical glacial erratic" certainly doesn't have to be >>> larger than a "Stonehenge stone"; those are pretty big.? I don't >>> think there's any such thing as a "typical size" of a glacial >>> erratic.? They only get called "glacial erratics" if they are >>> large boulders, big enough to be obviously noticed as "out of >>> place".? What these scientists concluded, was that the reason >>> there are no other big large boulders like this lying around >>> anywhere on or near Salisbury Plain, as that the people who >>> built Stonehenge, gathered all the suitably?big ones?and >>> dragged/rolled them to the Stonehenge site.? Sounds reasonable >>> to me, but next year, someone else may come up with a new >>> interpretation. >>> I think we all get annoyed by the news stories (or even the >>> stories written by the scientists themselves, promoting their >>> own work) that say, "Scientists now have THE explanation to >>> solve the mystery of thus-and-such", because it often turns out >>> to be "Just another hypothesis" that turns out not to be >>> completely correct. >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> I think it was the previous issue of Earth (January), not the >>> latest one (Feb., which just came out),? that had this article. >>> >>> >>> >>> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >>> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >>> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >>> ? >>> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >>> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >>> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >>> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >>> Yours,? >>> Dora Smith? >>> Austin, TX? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Dora Smith >>> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors >>> Sent: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 7:48 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved >>> >>> >>> Does the Earth issue tell us how they know that the Stonehenge >>> stones were carried by glaciers? I mean, do tracks remain, or >>> what? Or is this just an alternative theory?? >>> ? >>> As to the notion that all other glacier erratics in southern >>> England have been picked up by humans over the millenia, isn't >>> the typical glacial erratic far bigger than a Stonehenge stone? >>> It would be some trick to pick one up and put it in your pocket!? >>> Yours,? >>> Dora Smith? >>> Austin, TX? >>> tiggernut24@yahoo.com? >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" >>> ?To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A >>> mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>> ?Sent: Tuesday, January 06, >>> 2009 7:36 PM? >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Stonehenge geology resolved? >>> ? >>>> There is an interesting article in the current issue of Earth >>> magazine > (formerly GeoTimes) about the geology of Stonehenge. >>> It answers the > question about the source of the rocks focusing >>> primarily on the massive > bluestones. It turns out that while >>> it is true that the bluestone's source > is 400 km WNW, they >>> were carried by glaciers to the Salisbury Plain. > Prehistoric >>> people did not magically drag them all that distance. It also > >>> turns out the Neolithic structure is made from 20 different >>> types of rock > from multiple locations, something to be >>> expected when selecting glacial > erratics over a large area.? >>>> ? >>>> The article gives strong evidence showing the boulders were >>> "trained" by > glacier movement; that is the motion of glacial >>> lobes kept the bluestone > from being fanned out all over the >>> place. They give an example of a > similar glacial deposit in >>> Alberta in front of the Rockies. There are > erratics ten times >>> larger than those at Stonehenge out in the middle of > nowhere. >>> They are found in a linear pattern stretching for dozens to > >>> hundreds of kilometers from the source.? >>>> ? >>>> The bluestone was not a particularly 'sacred' stone as has >>> been written > about it for so many years. It was a favorite >>> rock of the Neolithic people > because it was readily carvable. >>> Many stone axes and celts made of the > same rock have been >>> found. Smaller bluestone rocks have been found in > >>> archaeological sites in the region that are even older than >>> Stonehenge.?>? >>>> As to why the Salisbury Plain is devoid of glacial erratics >>> today, their > answer is pretty simple. After 5,000 years of >>> habitation, almost all of > them have been picked up!? >>>> ? >>>> Alan G.? >>>> ? >>>> -- > _______________________________________________? >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >>>> Subscription Services:? >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >>>> ? >>> -- _______________________________________________? >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >>> Subscription Services:? >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jan 31 19:11:01 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jan 31 19:12:13 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish References: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> Can any of you fossil folks tell me if this fossil is Knightia or Diplomystu?. I don't want to be among the millions who put false information on the web. http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3242829482/ Thanks - John From rhill at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jan 31 20:03:22 2009 From: rhill at lpl.arizona.edu (Rik Hill) Date: Sat Jan 31 20:03:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish In-Reply-To: <5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> References: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> Message-ID: <49851F0A.5090100@lpl.arizona.edu> Knightia. -Rik John Siebel wrote: > Can any of you fossil folks tell me if this fossil is Knightia or > Diplomystu?. I don't want to be among the millions who put false > information on the web. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3242829482/ > > Thanks - John > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jan 31 20:25:32 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jan 31 20:27:01 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net><807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> <33F87673B42C4FECB7D5F6CC9F0A1374@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: > Marvellous shot, John. Thanks Axel. Not bad for a crappy little Kodak EasyShare. >Life is too short Not when you snowed in. :-) John. Santa, ID From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 31 20:59:24 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Jan 31 20:59:28 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish In-Reply-To: <5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> References: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net> <5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> Message-ID: <005901c98429$da609ca0$8f21d5e0$@com> Looks like a Knightia ecoeana. Diplomystus dentatus is easily ID'ed by looking at the anal fin (where you think it is); Diplo's is long, Knightia's is short. BTW the crab ball that pops up in the window that you have labeled Xanthopsis? is what used to be a Xanthopsis but has been reassigned to Pulalius vulgaris. Some paleos have nothing better to do but change genus names LOL. BTW Skamokawa is in Wahkiakum Co. We call it the K-M Mountain site. Best on Sunday morning while Johnny Law is having his coffee and donuts :) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:11 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish Can any of you fossil folks tell me if this fossil is Knightia or Diplomystu?. I don't want to be among the millions who put false information on the web. http://www.flickr.com/photos/31394106@N08/3242829482/ Thanks - John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jan 31 20:58:14 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jan 31 21:00:15 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish References: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> <49851F0A.5090100@lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <5EEEBCB90B92452F8D586D30672C2ECB@Notebook> Thanks Rik! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Hill" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish > > Knightia. -Rik From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Jan 31 21:04:14 2009 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim) Date: Sat Jan 31 21:04:18 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava In-Reply-To: References: <012920090621.29579.49814AD100009BB50000738B22064244130C0C0C0C9C0207059F03019B0404070D@comcast.net> <007901c981df$a459d2d0$ed0d7870$@com><4982500A.2050908@hawaiiantel.net><807FDB5BE5FB4C5BB88DF5F6EDF49D15@Notebook> <33F87673B42C4FECB7D5F6CC9F0A1374@AXELDESKTOP> Message-ID: <005f01c9842a$87448f80$95cdae80$@com> My Easyshare went to my son last week, I got a new Panasonic for Christmas :) That said, it did a pretty decent job and is still going after 3 years' hard use. The touchscreen even still works (yeah I know miracles do happen). My only complaint is that it sucked the life out of its battery faster than I could imagine was possible. I kept two with me at all times. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:26 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Kitty Lava > Marvellous shot, John. Thanks Axel. Not bad for a crappy little Kodak EasyShare. >Life is too short Not when you snowed in. :-) John. Santa, ID -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jan 31 21:28:22 2009 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jan 31 21:29:34 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish References: <3781B96A-EFF3-11DD-80F8-0005022E6413@Tomaszewski.net><5D6A67F037944FB49585591096F31F82@Notebook> <005901c98429$da609ca0$8f21d5e0$@com> Message-ID: <70CB0FB397DC4F9EAF60300B46DE74D9@Notebook> Thanks for the help Tim. I really appreciate your help on this stuff. Hope you lick that flu soon. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fossil Fish > Looks like a Knightia ecoeana. Diplomystus dentatus is easily ID'ed by > looking at the anal fin (where you think it is); Diplo's is long, > Knightia's > is short. BTW the crab ball that pops up in the window that you have > labeled Xanthopsis? is what used to be a Xanthopsis but has been > reassigned > to Pulalius vulgaris. Some paleos have nothing better to do but change > genus > names LOL. BTW Skamokawa is in Wahkiakum Co. We call it the K-M Mountain > site. Best on Sunday morning while Johnny Law is having his coffee and > donuts :) > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jan 31 21:33:57 2009 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Jan 31 21:34:02 2009 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Listing of Rock and Mineral clubs In-Reply-To: <200902010200.n1120t2Q027143@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200902010200.n1120t2Q027143@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Kreigh, Thank you so very much for an extremely comprehensive and useful list. Of course thanks go as well to the Canadian Federation. Hugs, Terrie